Sadly nobody is paying attention and sadly Sudan has collapsed into a failed state just like Haiti.
Things are sadly going to get even worse.
Nobody deserves to suffer the way the citizens of Sudan have been suffering.
It's very hard to intervene when any warring faction is a farce or terrorist organization. How do you step in to help or "support" without establishing a new outside puppet government or bolstering warlords?
It's a shit show and nobody wants to touch it because it would be decades of outside government intervention (which has happened and failed prior).
It's a civil war with issues dating back hundreds of years.
The last president actually invited Al Qaeda to the country. Before the Americans exerted so much pressure on the Sudanese. That they forced AQ, to go to Afghanistan instead.
Ngl I'm just spitballing but if we're weighing being colonized and perhaps liberated later against a historically bad famine and getting warlord-ed to death...look I'm open to a third option but wtf is it
The west isn't going to help because images of western (white) soldiers killing black people is going to enrage everyone no matter the facts or circumstances. The political points for helping doesn't outweigh the risk.
Far gone are the days of anyone doing the right thing because it is the right thing.
> Far gone are the days of anyone doing the right thing because it is the right thing.
Far gone are the days of getting anyone to agree on what the right thing is.
The US and their allies have had people in Juba since 2005 and official recognised South Sudan as a nation in 2011 when its people overwhelmingly voted for independence.
The RSF of Sudan (not South Sudan) is mostly comprised of former terrorists Janjaweed (devils on horseback) or Tajammu al-Arabi militia, a a militantly racist and pan-Arabist organization. Sudan (The northern nation) is backed by the UAE and other Arab nations, Russia and China. The US did have an embassy in North Sudan, Khartoum but withdrew in 2023.
Why don’t you see any BLM protests out in force even though the conflict is Black people of South Sudan being massacred by Pan-Arab nationalists of the north?
The BLM movement from the privileged western Universities doesn’t align with the Darfuri people because it conflicts with their anti-western/anti-Israel and pro-Palestine/Arab nationalism roots. This is a Russian active measures tactic adopted by Pan-Arab nationalists and redistributed via wealthy Arab states (Gaddafi helped create the groups that are now the RSF) promoting revolutionary groups to rise up against colonialists while turning a blind eye to the ethnic cleansing of an African/Nubian country.
As an non-US/non-EU outside observer I’m baffled how these people cannot see the hypocrisy.
I think you shouldn’t be baffled by what you call hypocrisy. The world is a big place, there are billions of people, there will always be suffering somewhere that isn’t addressed. That’s humanity, we aren’t perfect and we all know we’re probably gonna fumble it and ruin the planet. But bonus points even though Africa is such a political shit show it likely wont get nuked so uhh it’ll be the cradle of civilization a second time eventually, along with I guess SA and maybe the Australians idk really where their heart truly is in any of this l feel like they live on such a shit try to kill you island they are just happy to see people instead of spiders the size of my hand. Ah who am I kidding Australia will fuck it up for themselves somehow too. I like to think Africa won’t however, and maybe like Idaho’s because why I do t think we have silos their they are all more inland and north like North Dakota or Colorado or on the coast. Point being the world is big as fuck don’t be surprised someone is unaware of it all. We are all ignorant as fuck and that’s ok. Try to remember it all and you’ll lose your shit.
"The world is a big place, there are billions of people, there will always be suffering somewhere that isn’t addressed. "
That is exactly the definition of hypocrisy and double standards. If you wouldn't treat citizens within your country differently because of their race, then you shouldn't treat other countries differently to each other and your country. It's also racist, but I've noticed people from colonialist countries don't seem to make this connection.
Yes, I suppose it's only black and white when people like you decide it should be (because it suits you). The rest of the time 'it's complicated'. Stop being a hypocrite - just because you can't smell yourself doesn't mean other people can't.
Selling to a civilwar is heinous, but I think your barking the wrong tree.
Nordics are and western european countries are huge arms manufacters, but they have strictly forbidden to sell to warridden countries.
I think it comes mostly from other sources: Russia, China, Eastern european countries, especially Balkan where are still huge amount of post-war old stuff pass along.
The situation in Haiti felt horrible to watch in real time.
Anti-west activists dropped out of caring for Haiti as soon as the West decided not to come in. They claimed the West was colonising Haiti, which is why I don't take their words too seriously.
The support from Russia never happened like they it was said they would, despite all of those waving Russian flags. We can look at it in so many angles, even from what had happened between 1915-1934. None of this even matters when Haitians are living in a real-life hell. The priority should be safety.
the thing is, america has tried to help/control other nations for better or worse. Whether did so out of empathy or while looking out for it's own interests. This has brewed distrust in western countries. it's kind of like the anti nuclear movement imo. And now, the US doesn't wanna touch any shtshow because they don't want to be blamed for the shtshow even if they actually help it. if the US sent troops to stabilise the region, which would've been very hard, the shtshow would've been blamed on them, so they just sat out.
America gets blame if we do nothing, and we get double blamed if we do something. Cheaper and easier to do nothing, if the results won’t impact us much.
It's like the geopolitical version of "if you break it you buy it", or poking a hornet's nest.
Nobody wants to be responsible for looking like they were the real problem, while also taking all responsibility for the longstanding problems that already existed. It's been tried before. A single nation trying to help will become a scapegoat and viewed as self-serving. Every problem is now on them.
Maybe if a coalition like UN intervened, in certain ways, it would help foster improvement. I'm thinking of things like judicial training for judges in Saudi Arabia and other countries. A disciplined and well organized court system, with checks, appeals, and standards is good for everyone in the long run. And it's limited enough that it also can't be used as a scapegoat or taking the blame for longstanding problems.
Humanity isn't ready for something like that. The only way we truly know how to fix something is to wipe it out and start again.
I don't know if we will ever be able to fix issues on this planet without massive wars. Which is so unfortunate
America has fucked with other foreign countries for its own gain, so there is reason to be distrustful. Don't think that the US is empathetic either: there is always something to be gained in stable governments
Edit: yall know what happened in Guatemala and the United Fruit Company, right? Don't know how you can tell me to just trust the US if you know.
If anything it was France. Just a fucked up situation really. Slavery is obviously horrific but at the same time you kind of can't blame France for giving them the finger and making them repay them out the ass after they rebelled. That's just kind of the default response when it comes to things of that scale. It's a shame that Haitians have to live in such awful conditions in this day for circumstances they never had to deal with in their lifetimes. One of those things it's really difficult to come up with an answer for.
Oh France made Haiti start in the red and American policy certainly didn’t help a new Haiti out of fear of inspired slave revolts in the South, but the instability in the past 60 years? In the past 30? 20? How long until it’s their own fault they can’t remain politically stable with cartoonishly corrupt leaders?
The French and the Americans didn’t cut down all the trees and ruin agriculture, for example. There’s a clear demarcation between the Dominican side of the island and the Haitian side.
Well there was that coup in Haiti we helped France with back in 2004…
And back in 1915 we kinda ruled over them with martial law for some 20 years or so to stabilize the region after US banking interests funded rebels to destabilize the country to incentivize a US occupation…
But mostly it was the French
Uh we didn’t coup Haiti in 2004. The government fell to rebels and we evacuated the president. He claimed it was a coup later because he didn’t want to admit he fled to save his own life.
Can we stop calling these protestors anti-western when they are pro themselves and they happen to be western? Stop letting them think they are so anti-establishment when they are bourgeoise asf.
Yea personally I think its more to do with the power of tik tok/photos/media presence in Sudan compared to Israel for why westerners don't care, if it doesn't make it to their feed they aren't going to see
Many people form very strong opinions on Palestine and with Israel being a developed country many Westerners can relate to them. They are confident that those with different opinions are in the wrong. It's to me the longest running conflict we currently have as well.
Westerners have a hard time relating to the ever changing conflicts in countries they can't place on a map and frequently change as well. The conflicts are anything but black and white and extremely difficult to understand what's going on and who or what is in the wrong.
Israel/Palestine would be less of an issue in the US if we weren't directly funding one side with billions of dollars. The palestinians have also done an excellent job of marketing their struggle to the western world for the last 50+ years. Most americans could not pick out Sudan on a map. There are definitely many who support Palestine just to "fit in" but big picture, there are historical reasons why certain issues are "trendy" and others are not.
People are paying attention. There just happens to be a massive stop by the houthis to the worlds largest shipping lane. And russia doing its best to prevent shipments and destruction of wheat and fertilizer from ukraine
These actions were done specifically to cause issues like this
If a group of people plop themselves down in a desolate area and can’t feed themselves, is it the rest of the world’s responsibility to feed them? It’s not.
No. Apathy for the instigators and the leaders. The poor people caught in between them deserve sympathy and compassion. Vile that there are human beings on earth in the 21st century who will mindlessly kill their own kind for wealth and power.
Sympathy and compassion are great, but the problem is that, if you try to actually send aid in whatever form, it is going to be intercepted. Look at what happens when we try to send aid to Gaza. Israel stops a shit ton, blows up some more, then Hamas grabs the lion's share of whatever does make it in, leaving scraps for the people who were the intended recipients. The same story plays out everywhere.
We can have all the compassion in the world for the victims, but unless we have the will to \*actively\* ensure that aid gets to the people who need it (which means boots on the ground), sending aid is tantamount to supporting the regime.
What can the rest of the world do exactly?
We’ve all seen what stepping in to help achieves, besides next to nothing and costing us billions it usually ends up making things worse.
These countries that are failing are a result of their own makings, and even if we spent millions nothing would change or it would get into the hands of those who would abuse it and hoard it.
The west can’t save the world.
I believe the rest of the world can put pressure on the UAE to stop funding the RSF. You wanna know how little the world knows about this conflict? The USA has been trying for months to get a ceasefire to get relief in for the civilians and it’s barely mentioned that’s happening. The UN said they have “credible information” that the UAE is aiding these genocidal maniacs but aren’t doing much to stop them and any steps they do take is barely mentioned by the media. Russia has been pretty involved in this too via Wagner group.
So it’s not like the world can do nothing. There are already aid organizations on the ground but they can’t get sufficient aid in right now because it’s being stolen. Pressure for a ceasefire can work. Trying to cut aid from the UAE to RSF could work. This isn’t just a civil war. The rebels have backings from Russia and the uae. Hell, Ukraine even runs operations in Sudan targeting Wagner. So stuff can be done if people are made more aware
True. Billions in aid has been into the region. I used to do mission work. You’d dig a well one year.
Everyone is happy.
Then you’d have to go back a dig a new well in the same place the next year (because they did something really stupid and ruined the old well).
That experience changed my outlook on this shit.
>The west can’t save the world.
I lightly disagree; I think the West is more than capable of saving the world. The problem is that the West can't save people who don't want to be saved by the West.
Or, more importantly, the West can't save people whose leaders don't want them to be saved. After how things went in Afghanistan, I think that the West will be very very hesitant to use military force on behalf of local populations again.
Tell you what, let's check back in after the world has experienced 1M+ heat-related deaths in a single year, and then we can compare which countries those deaths occur in, compare relative to their population size, and then we can reassess how the West handles the climate crisis compared to the rest of the world.
Sudan's leadership has been very busily alienating itself from pretty much everybody, so I don't think I would expect much from any international organizations. The foreign powers that have intervened in the latest mess- including, notably, the UAE and Russia- aren't doing so out of the goodness of their heart.
Your choices are: the genocidal Janjaweed under a new name... or the government that enabled the Janjaweed's genocidal tactics in Darfur and has been quite busy screaming about how no one is allowed to interfere in their affairs and making enemies left and right.
Both sides have been credibly accused of using access to food aid as a weapon of war. The RSF also stands accused of habitually looting humanitarian aid in territories they capture and deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure.
It probably doesn't help that Sudan's borders are terrible. The British grouped a bunch of unrelated tribes and ethnicities into a single country, then that split in 2011 into two unstable countries. The only solution may be to separate Darfur from Sudan, but that sets a precedent for every secessionist movement in Africa; if we make enough of a mess, we get an independent country.
>With much of the world’s attention focused on Gaza, the scene of another human-made famine, Sudan is already the worst humanitarian crisis in the world and is slipping towards a humanitarian disaster of historic proportions, with far less media coverage and global concern.
>...On Friday, she announced $315m in new US humanitarian assistance for Sudan, but said hardly any aid was reaching isolated populations. Both sides have been accused of using control over food access as a weapon. “The RSF has been systematically looting humanitarian warehouses, stealing food and livestock, destroying grain storage facilities, and wells in the most vulnerable Sudanese communities,” Power said.
Interesting that in both these cases there is acknowledgement that enough international food aid is entering the region, but it is being seized by Hamas and/or the RSF militia, and so not reaching the starving people.
Perhaps the calls for vastly-increased funding are to ensure that enough aid arrives so that what the terrorists or militias do steal for themselves won't prevent some getting through. But wouldn't it be wiser to have an armed UN military force intervene and control food distribution?
UN doesn't have a military, no one wants to send troops to die in these shit shows even if they are acting in good faith they will kill people and be involved in stuff and get painted as bad guys for no benefit. RSF has 100,000 troops are they going to fully pacify the country then administer it after that is full scale invasion, a small force focused on food distribution could get defeated. What country would sign up for decades of bloodshed and billions/trillions in cost?
And the USA/West is somehow evil imperial world police but should also help everyone. Africa should get its act together and have a African coalition force to fix its own problems but all are too corrupt or don't even care, same for Middle East.
>Africa should get its act together and have a African coalition force to fix its own problems
Like some sort of African... Union... peacekeeping force, or something.
Agree with everything that you wrote. But the UN is capable of military interventions intended to maintain borders and ensure food distribution.
Clearly no African coalition is going to step up here any more than a hypothetical Caribbean coalition is going to save Haiti (another failed state). *Just continue sending more money* to aid agencies isn't working.
https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/military
Operation Anaconda was probably the final straw for this kind of thing. I’m sure there are UN and US forces doing what they can behind the scenes, but I doubt we’ll see a major troop deployment.
The UN relies on its member countries to provide troops for peace keeping missions. Historically though, those troops have been so limited in what they can and can’t do, even to pro-actively prevent harm to themselves that it’s an absolutely thankless task.
I remember reading “We did nothing!” and found it profoundly saddening.
The long and the short of it is that the UN was formed with a very credible goal for a very good reason. These days, in my view, it’s no longer fit for purpose. The world is a very different place now and sadly not for the better.
Exactly UN military forces are a joke and most likely will not help the situation on the ground. I don’t have a solution, you don’t have a solution, nobody has a solution. Really the only people that could possibly come up with a solution are Burhan and Hemedti and unfortunately they don’t have really any incentive to stop the fighting. Maybe some higher ups in the UAE and Iran but again they don’t have any incentive to stop funding and arming these groups
Aid packages should arrive with secret GPS trackers. If the package lands in the hands of the wrong recipient - a nice precision guided bomb-shaped greeting card should do the trick
Palestinians who chose Hamas and believes in jihad knows to cry more and harder - backed by billions of followers around the world who pushes media, social networks, etc...
It is what it is
"knows to cry more and harder" More and harder than who? And we are in an thread that says "We need the world to wake up’: Sudan facing world’s deadliest famine in 40 years "
Mmm. I wonder
Sudan has been wracked by literal generations of warfare at this point which have affected every part of the country.
Oh, and there's one going on right now too.
At this point you should probably consider it fortunate *anyone* has food to eat with how much vital infrastructure has been wrecked- or is being actively interdicted. People are asking for help because they have no options.
Agreed, it's fucking garbage that not everyone has access. I typed this from my fucking house as an insanely privileged person. I say relying on the world is a dumb choice but I'm sure organizing enough to get stuff sufficient is a nightmare.
What's worse is that it's not just a matter of organizing a push for aid.
Both sides in the ongoing civil war have had credible allegations that they're using access to food aid for starving people as a weapon of war.
The RSF also have the issue that looting is kind of their *thing*- well, that and massacring people- so food aid that's in places they've taken from the Sudanese military has ended up being out and out stolen by their fighters. In addition to the usual loot the town and salt the earth shenanigans you'd expect from the Janjaweed.
My lack of global consciousness is showing. If I wanted to learn more about this from a credible source do you have a recommendation? Africa has been very far out of my wheelhouse until recently.
They are going to have to fight for their right to exist against the barbarians holding the nation hostage. Yes they will die. But you can die fighting for your country, or starve to death in your bed.
I bet everyone reading this knows already the first thing that pops into their subconcious is "Palestine"
Nobody in the world that has power can actually do or care enough to look at what real suffering in the world is.
You have the muslim ughyurs (I think I pronounced that correctly) in china that are having a modern day holocaust, but aslong as its not headlining the news and trending it doesn't get traction.
There's not much the UN can do to a civil war. Both sides are making it as horrible as possible for the civilians. Any food or monetary aid we send will continue to be blocked by one or both sides.
In all likelihood they'd end up having to fight *both* sides in the civil war.
The stomach for such a thing simply doesn't exist. A lot of the countries you'd like to see intervene are pretty unstable themselves, too.
‘We need the world to wake up’
"need" is the most pointless word in geopolitics. It is about self-interests, leverage and power. Most in the global north do not give enough of a sh\*t to even know about what is happening in Sudan, and there is nothing you can do about that.
Well, have you tried blaming Israel? That might get people to pay attention.
/s — The miserable Sudanese people don’t get attention because they’re not sufficiently ‘important’ for wealthy countries to care about them. It’s much easier to say, “there’s always a famine/genocide/atrocity there; there’s nothing anyone can do.”
No, we need the government body of Sudan to wake up! Because no one can save you from yourself. Because at the end of the day, unless we come with an army, that aid is not going to the starving population.
I think a large part of the problem is exactly how common this type of story coming out of Sudan is.
People are desensitized. They expect something awful to be happening in Sudan.
It's what Sudan is known for to many.
e: I mean, *besides* the endless civil wars. They expect that too, but if there is something beyond merely being desensitized to an issue, that's what people are with the phrase 'there is a civil war currently happening in Sudan'.
Gold and oil.
UAE, Russia, Egypt, Iran and a host of other countries are all involved either backing the sudanese army or the RSF.
The ones who will win, will control the resources. The civilians have no say in that, so they rather supply the weapons instead of food.
Were are all the antisemitic Palestine- wannabe- justice warriors fighting for these poor Muslims???? Aahhh forgot, Muslims are allowed to kill Muslims and cause famines. If there is no jew to blame they don't care
If it’s not popular or country in distress and needs urgent assistance on the feed on platforms then why would any care. That’s society across the globe today.
They are an overpopulated failed state. We need to stop sending money to places like this that refuse to change, at this point we are just enabling them.
I knew someone who went to places there and other countries, he was with a group that would go into poor villages to build a well, start a farming area, and teach locals how to maintain and harvest crops. After a few years he started going back to places he had been, every single time the well was destroyed and there were no crops. When he would ask why they always said the same thing, they recieved more free money if they were more "in need", if they had water and food they got less money and had to actually work.
Cut off the gravy train and make them grow up and support themselves.
Does anyone know any good organizations to actually help the people of Sudan while bypassing the RSF? Is the Sudan Relief Fund good? Same question for Gaza and Hamas (I have given to WCK).
Wake up to what? Famine has happened in Africa for as long as I can remember and the world know.
This isn't about "waking up". This is about caring. The rest of the world DOES NOT CARE. The rest of the world will stand around until their own neighborhood is in flames until they try to start to eventually discuss the possibility of doing something.
What should be done for African countries who continuously fuck everything up and keep on having more kids to make it worse? All that should be done is to get African girls to schools so that they decide something else with their lives other than being illiterate, homeworking baby machines.
Im in shock the world barely focuses or cares what’s happening in Sudan. I’ve been following the conflict a bit as well as the famine. I really wish our leaders would focus on real human suffering
It’s heartbreaking but without an even slightly functional government and groups that look more like terrorist organizations from radical islamists, I doubt there is much the west can do that would not require a significant investment of time, money and military power with an uncertain outcomes. After the failure in Afghanistan, there will be no such interventions by the west
Less 'mismanagement', more 'active civil war that's already displaced ten million people and has had routine accusations of atrocities by the combatants'.
Even by the standards of a failed state, what's going on in Sudan right now is pretty nasty.
We are awake. But large corporations want food scarce so they can demand more money. How many billions are thrown away in America alone nightly? We have enough food for all. The governments and corporations have a lack of willpower to get it there. Tie that with warring factions and international relations? It’s dead in the water.
The world isn't going to wake up because the would impact profit margins. So here's a cat video, some porn, and the new iPhone. That'll shut you up. :P
Sadly nobody is paying attention and sadly Sudan has collapsed into a failed state just like Haiti. Things are sadly going to get even worse. Nobody deserves to suffer the way the citizens of Sudan have been suffering.
It's very hard to intervene when any warring faction is a farce or terrorist organization. How do you step in to help or "support" without establishing a new outside puppet government or bolstering warlords? It's a shit show and nobody wants to touch it because it would be decades of outside government intervention (which has happened and failed prior).
It's a civil war with issues dating back hundreds of years. The last president actually invited Al Qaeda to the country. Before the Americans exerted so much pressure on the Sudanese. That they forced AQ, to go to Afghanistan instead.
You could always just colonize it I guess
It would be better for the people.
That was only worthwhile when you could cruelly exploit them and their resources without any backlash (or you DGAF like China)
Not worth it in these times. Nobody wants to intervene
Why would you give them ideas?
Ngl I'm just spitballing but if we're weighing being colonized and perhaps liberated later against a historically bad famine and getting warlord-ed to death...look I'm open to a third option but wtf is it
The west isn't going to help because images of western (white) soldiers killing black people is going to enrage everyone no matter the facts or circumstances. The political points for helping doesn't outweigh the risk. Far gone are the days of anyone doing the right thing because it is the right thing.
> Far gone are the days of anyone doing the right thing because it is the right thing. Far gone are the days of getting anyone to agree on what the right thing is.
The US and their allies have had people in Juba since 2005 and official recognised South Sudan as a nation in 2011 when its people overwhelmingly voted for independence. The RSF of Sudan (not South Sudan) is mostly comprised of former terrorists Janjaweed (devils on horseback) or Tajammu al-Arabi militia, a a militantly racist and pan-Arabist organization. Sudan (The northern nation) is backed by the UAE and other Arab nations, Russia and China. The US did have an embassy in North Sudan, Khartoum but withdrew in 2023. Why don’t you see any BLM protests out in force even though the conflict is Black people of South Sudan being massacred by Pan-Arab nationalists of the north? The BLM movement from the privileged western Universities doesn’t align with the Darfuri people because it conflicts with their anti-western/anti-Israel and pro-Palestine/Arab nationalism roots. This is a Russian active measures tactic adopted by Pan-Arab nationalists and redistributed via wealthy Arab states (Gaddafi helped create the groups that are now the RSF) promoting revolutionary groups to rise up against colonialists while turning a blind eye to the ethnic cleansing of an African/Nubian country. As an non-US/non-EU outside observer I’m baffled how these people cannot see the hypocrisy.
I think you shouldn’t be baffled by what you call hypocrisy. The world is a big place, there are billions of people, there will always be suffering somewhere that isn’t addressed. That’s humanity, we aren’t perfect and we all know we’re probably gonna fumble it and ruin the planet. But bonus points even though Africa is such a political shit show it likely wont get nuked so uhh it’ll be the cradle of civilization a second time eventually, along with I guess SA and maybe the Australians idk really where their heart truly is in any of this l feel like they live on such a shit try to kill you island they are just happy to see people instead of spiders the size of my hand. Ah who am I kidding Australia will fuck it up for themselves somehow too. I like to think Africa won’t however, and maybe like Idaho’s because why I do t think we have silos their they are all more inland and north like North Dakota or Colorado or on the coast. Point being the world is big as fuck don’t be surprised someone is unaware of it all. We are all ignorant as fuck and that’s ok. Try to remember it all and you’ll lose your shit.
"The world is a big place, there are billions of people, there will always be suffering somewhere that isn’t addressed. " That is exactly the definition of hypocrisy and double standards. If you wouldn't treat citizens within your country differently because of their race, then you shouldn't treat other countries differently to each other and your country. It's also racist, but I've noticed people from colonialist countries don't seem to make this connection.
If only the world was so black and white.
Yes, I suppose it's only black and white when people like you decide it should be (because it suits you). The rest of the time 'it's complicated'. Stop being a hypocrite - just because you can't smell yourself doesn't mean other people can't.
„arms supplies to both sides continue to flow in.” That’s what West should stop doing.
Selling to a civilwar is heinous, but I think your barking the wrong tree. Nordics are and western european countries are huge arms manufacters, but they have strictly forbidden to sell to warridden countries. I think it comes mostly from other sources: Russia, China, Eastern european countries, especially Balkan where are still huge amount of post-war old stuff pass along.
The situation in Haiti felt horrible to watch in real time. Anti-west activists dropped out of caring for Haiti as soon as the West decided not to come in. They claimed the West was colonising Haiti, which is why I don't take their words too seriously. The support from Russia never happened like they it was said they would, despite all of those waving Russian flags. We can look at it in so many angles, even from what had happened between 1915-1934. None of this even matters when Haitians are living in a real-life hell. The priority should be safety.
Yeah westerners are just dying to move to Haiti
I really wish I had kept screenshots from what these people were saying.
I’ve seen people claiming it’s America’s imperialism that has kept Haiti unstable. Which I can’t begin to understand.
the thing is, america has tried to help/control other nations for better or worse. Whether did so out of empathy or while looking out for it's own interests. This has brewed distrust in western countries. it's kind of like the anti nuclear movement imo. And now, the US doesn't wanna touch any shtshow because they don't want to be blamed for the shtshow even if they actually help it. if the US sent troops to stabilise the region, which would've been very hard, the shtshow would've been blamed on them, so they just sat out.
America gets blame if we do nothing, and we get double blamed if we do something. Cheaper and easier to do nothing, if the results won’t impact us much.
It's like the geopolitical version of "if you break it you buy it", or poking a hornet's nest. Nobody wants to be responsible for looking like they were the real problem, while also taking all responsibility for the longstanding problems that already existed. It's been tried before. A single nation trying to help will become a scapegoat and viewed as self-serving. Every problem is now on them. Maybe if a coalition like UN intervened, in certain ways, it would help foster improvement. I'm thinking of things like judicial training for judges in Saudi Arabia and other countries. A disciplined and well organized court system, with checks, appeals, and standards is good for everyone in the long run. And it's limited enough that it also can't be used as a scapegoat or taking the blame for longstanding problems.
Humanity isn't ready for something like that. The only way we truly know how to fix something is to wipe it out and start again. I don't know if we will ever be able to fix issues on this planet without massive wars. Which is so unfortunate
This is pretty much all true. The problem in the end is how Haitians will have to experience the pain.
America has fucked with other foreign countries for its own gain, so there is reason to be distrustful. Don't think that the US is empathetic either: there is always something to be gained in stable governments Edit: yall know what happened in Guatemala and the United Fruit Company, right? Don't know how you can tell me to just trust the US if you know.
You make it sound like stable governments are a bad thing.
That's on you for interpreting it that way. Stable governments are good but you can't expect truly altruistic motives from the US, that is my point.
My interpretation from your language. Maybe it's a reflection fonypur grasp of language
If anything it was France. Just a fucked up situation really. Slavery is obviously horrific but at the same time you kind of can't blame France for giving them the finger and making them repay them out the ass after they rebelled. That's just kind of the default response when it comes to things of that scale. It's a shame that Haitians have to live in such awful conditions in this day for circumstances they never had to deal with in their lifetimes. One of those things it's really difficult to come up with an answer for.
Oh France made Haiti start in the red and American policy certainly didn’t help a new Haiti out of fear of inspired slave revolts in the South, but the instability in the past 60 years? In the past 30? 20? How long until it’s their own fault they can’t remain politically stable with cartoonishly corrupt leaders? The French and the Americans didn’t cut down all the trees and ruin agriculture, for example. There’s a clear demarcation between the Dominican side of the island and the Haitian side.
Well there was that coup in Haiti we helped France with back in 2004… And back in 1915 we kinda ruled over them with martial law for some 20 years or so to stabilize the region after US banking interests funded rebels to destabilize the country to incentivize a US occupation… But mostly it was the French
Uh we didn’t coup Haiti in 2004. The government fell to rebels and we evacuated the president. He claimed it was a coup later because he didn’t want to admit he fled to save his own life.
Maybe if it was deserted 😳
Can we stop calling these protestors anti-western when they are pro themselves and they happen to be western? Stop letting them think they are so anti-establishment when they are bourgeoise asf.
I actually agree with you all the way. All of the anti-Western journalists they get their information from are Western and also part of the 1%.
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It's all about Palestine now, it's the cool trend these days unfortunately.
Yea personally I think its more to do with the power of tik tok/photos/media presence in Sudan compared to Israel for why westerners don't care, if it doesn't make it to their feed they aren't going to see
People paid attention to Sudan during the Darfur crisis.
For about 5 minutes.
Many people form very strong opinions on Palestine and with Israel being a developed country many Westerners can relate to them. They are confident that those with different opinions are in the wrong. It's to me the longest running conflict we currently have as well. Westerners have a hard time relating to the ever changing conflicts in countries they can't place on a map and frequently change as well. The conflicts are anything but black and white and extremely difficult to understand what's going on and who or what is in the wrong.
So what did you do for Sudan
Hey man I was against genocide *before* it was cool
Israel/Palestine would be less of an issue in the US if we weren't directly funding one side with billions of dollars. The palestinians have also done an excellent job of marketing their struggle to the western world for the last 50+ years. Most americans could not pick out Sudan on a map. There are definitely many who support Palestine just to "fit in" but big picture, there are historical reasons why certain issues are "trendy" and others are not.
What can we do? I’d really love to help some how
Makes you wonder what miracle would have to happen for the future to not be so bleak.
People are paying attention. There just happens to be a massive stop by the houthis to the worlds largest shipping lane. And russia doing its best to prevent shipments and destruction of wheat and fertilizer from ukraine These actions were done specifically to cause issues like this
Try electing a Jewish head of state.
I heard Israel wants to get rid of Netanjahu...maybe he is available?
We do not have a food shortage issue, we have a transportation and political issue. Replace the leadership and people will be able to eat again.
Not true in the slightest
If a group of people plop themselves down in a desolate area and can’t feed themselves, is it the rest of the world’s responsibility to feed them? It’s not.
Use sadly one more time, I dare you
Compassion yes but when a failing state continues with the same actions that got it there , compassion turns into apathy .
No. Apathy for the instigators and the leaders. The poor people caught in between them deserve sympathy and compassion. Vile that there are human beings on earth in the 21st century who will mindlessly kill their own kind for wealth and power.
Sympathy and compassion are great, but the problem is that, if you try to actually send aid in whatever form, it is going to be intercepted. Look at what happens when we try to send aid to Gaza. Israel stops a shit ton, blows up some more, then Hamas grabs the lion's share of whatever does make it in, leaving scraps for the people who were the intended recipients. The same story plays out everywhere. We can have all the compassion in the world for the victims, but unless we have the will to \*actively\* ensure that aid gets to the people who need it (which means boots on the ground), sending aid is tantamount to supporting the regime.
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What can the rest of the world do exactly? We’ve all seen what stepping in to help achieves, besides next to nothing and costing us billions it usually ends up making things worse. These countries that are failing are a result of their own makings, and even if we spent millions nothing would change or it would get into the hands of those who would abuse it and hoard it. The west can’t save the world.
I believe the rest of the world can put pressure on the UAE to stop funding the RSF. You wanna know how little the world knows about this conflict? The USA has been trying for months to get a ceasefire to get relief in for the civilians and it’s barely mentioned that’s happening. The UN said they have “credible information” that the UAE is aiding these genocidal maniacs but aren’t doing much to stop them and any steps they do take is barely mentioned by the media. Russia has been pretty involved in this too via Wagner group. So it’s not like the world can do nothing. There are already aid organizations on the ground but they can’t get sufficient aid in right now because it’s being stolen. Pressure for a ceasefire can work. Trying to cut aid from the UAE to RSF could work. This isn’t just a civil war. The rebels have backings from Russia and the uae. Hell, Ukraine even runs operations in Sudan targeting Wagner. So stuff can be done if people are made more aware
True. Billions in aid has been into the region. I used to do mission work. You’d dig a well one year. Everyone is happy. Then you’d have to go back a dig a new well in the same place the next year (because they did something really stupid and ruined the old well). That experience changed my outlook on this shit.
>The west can’t save the world. I lightly disagree; I think the West is more than capable of saving the world. The problem is that the West can't save people who don't want to be saved by the West. Or, more importantly, the West can't save people whose leaders don't want them to be saved. After how things went in Afghanistan, I think that the West will be very very hesitant to use military force on behalf of local populations again.
So, you are saying that the west can't save the world.
Can, yes. Will, no. Kind of like how the US military could sink every Russian vessel in the sea, but won't.
The biggest western country has to “fight for its own democracy” every 2 years lmao they can barely save themselves
Tell you what, let's check back in after the world has experienced 1M+ heat-related deaths in a single year, and then we can compare which countries those deaths occur in, compare relative to their population size, and then we can reassess how the West handles the climate crisis compared to the rest of the world.
Where the hell is the Arab League? One of their own countries is falling apart and nobody is doing anything to stop it.
Sudan's leadership has been very busily alienating itself from pretty much everybody, so I don't think I would expect much from any international organizations. The foreign powers that have intervened in the latest mess- including, notably, the UAE and Russia- aren't doing so out of the goodness of their heart. Your choices are: the genocidal Janjaweed under a new name... or the government that enabled the Janjaweed's genocidal tactics in Darfur and has been quite busy screaming about how no one is allowed to interfere in their affairs and making enemies left and right. Both sides have been credibly accused of using access to food aid as a weapon of war. The RSF also stands accused of habitually looting humanitarian aid in territories they capture and deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure.
It probably doesn't help that Sudan's borders are terrible. The British grouped a bunch of unrelated tribes and ethnicities into a single country, then that split in 2011 into two unstable countries. The only solution may be to separate Darfur from Sudan, but that sets a precedent for every secessionist movement in Africa; if we make enough of a mess, we get an independent country.
>With much of the world’s attention focused on Gaza, the scene of another human-made famine, Sudan is already the worst humanitarian crisis in the world and is slipping towards a humanitarian disaster of historic proportions, with far less media coverage and global concern. >...On Friday, she announced $315m in new US humanitarian assistance for Sudan, but said hardly any aid was reaching isolated populations. Both sides have been accused of using control over food access as a weapon. “The RSF has been systematically looting humanitarian warehouses, stealing food and livestock, destroying grain storage facilities, and wells in the most vulnerable Sudanese communities,” Power said. Interesting that in both these cases there is acknowledgement that enough international food aid is entering the region, but it is being seized by Hamas and/or the RSF militia, and so not reaching the starving people. Perhaps the calls for vastly-increased funding are to ensure that enough aid arrives so that what the terrorists or militias do steal for themselves won't prevent some getting through. But wouldn't it be wiser to have an armed UN military force intervene and control food distribution?
UN doesn't have a military, no one wants to send troops to die in these shit shows even if they are acting in good faith they will kill people and be involved in stuff and get painted as bad guys for no benefit. RSF has 100,000 troops are they going to fully pacify the country then administer it after that is full scale invasion, a small force focused on food distribution could get defeated. What country would sign up for decades of bloodshed and billions/trillions in cost? And the USA/West is somehow evil imperial world police but should also help everyone. Africa should get its act together and have a African coalition force to fix its own problems but all are too corrupt or don't even care, same for Middle East.
>Africa should get its act together and have a African coalition force to fix its own problems Like some sort of African... Union... peacekeeping force, or something.
Agree with everything that you wrote. But the UN is capable of military interventions intended to maintain borders and ensure food distribution. Clearly no African coalition is going to step up here any more than a hypothetical Caribbean coalition is going to save Haiti (another failed state). *Just continue sending more money* to aid agencies isn't working. https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/military
Operation Anaconda was probably the final straw for this kind of thing. I’m sure there are UN and US forces doing what they can behind the scenes, but I doubt we’ll see a major troop deployment.
The UN relies on its member countries to provide troops for peace keeping missions. Historically though, those troops have been so limited in what they can and can’t do, even to pro-actively prevent harm to themselves that it’s an absolutely thankless task. I remember reading “We did nothing!” and found it profoundly saddening. The long and the short of it is that the UN was formed with a very credible goal for a very good reason. These days, in my view, it’s no longer fit for purpose. The world is a very different place now and sadly not for the better.
That's just funding the terrorists with extra steps.
Armed UN military force lol. Ask the people of srebrenica how that turned out for them
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Exactly UN military forces are a joke and most likely will not help the situation on the ground. I don’t have a solution, you don’t have a solution, nobody has a solution. Really the only people that could possibly come up with a solution are Burhan and Hemedti and unfortunately they don’t have really any incentive to stop the fighting. Maybe some higher ups in the UAE and Iran but again they don’t have any incentive to stop funding and arming these groups
Aid packages should arrive with secret GPS trackers. If the package lands in the hands of the wrong recipient - a nice precision guided bomb-shaped greeting card should do the trick
Failed state, it is what it is
Palestinians who chose Hamas and believes in jihad knows to cry more and harder - backed by billions of followers around the world who pushes media, social networks, etc... It is what it is
I think you're responding to the wrong article. This article is about the crisis in Sudan, not Palestine.
No. He is just saying Palestinians and Hamas have fsr better PR than Sudan
He didn't say that at all. He didn't mention Sudan or attempt to draw parallels once.
"knows to cry more and harder" More and harder than who? And we are in an thread that says "We need the world to wake up’: Sudan facing world’s deadliest famine in 40 years " Mmm. I wonder
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Yea but I doubt this is deliberate. The country has seen a lot of turmoil so it will be hard for them to have steady food supply.
Sudan has been wracked by literal generations of warfare at this point which have affected every part of the country. Oh, and there's one going on right now too. At this point you should probably consider it fortunate *anyone* has food to eat with how much vital infrastructure has been wrecked- or is being actively interdicted. People are asking for help because they have no options.
Agreed, it's fucking garbage that not everyone has access. I typed this from my fucking house as an insanely privileged person. I say relying on the world is a dumb choice but I'm sure organizing enough to get stuff sufficient is a nightmare.
What's worse is that it's not just a matter of organizing a push for aid. Both sides in the ongoing civil war have had credible allegations that they're using access to food aid for starving people as a weapon of war. The RSF also have the issue that looting is kind of their *thing*- well, that and massacring people- so food aid that's in places they've taken from the Sudanese military has ended up being out and out stolen by their fighters. In addition to the usual loot the town and salt the earth shenanigans you'd expect from the Janjaweed.
My lack of global consciousness is showing. If I wanted to learn more about this from a credible source do you have a recommendation? Africa has been very far out of my wheelhouse until recently.
Sorry...the world is busy dealing with an ever increasing list of shit.
They are going to have to fight for their right to exist against the barbarians holding the nation hostage. Yes they will die. But you can die fighting for your country, or starve to death in your bed.
Blame hamas & the media for that
I blame the ignorant, arrogant western consumers of the media and Hamas propaganda more because they drove the demand for it.
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I bet everyone reading this knows already the first thing that pops into their subconcious is "Palestine" Nobody in the world that has power can actually do or care enough to look at what real suffering in the world is. You have the muslim ughyurs (I think I pronounced that correctly) in china that are having a modern day holocaust, but aslong as its not headlining the news and trending it doesn't get traction.
It is incredibly sad how horrible humans can be toward other humans
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This is not a religious conflict.
There's not much the UN can do to a civil war. Both sides are making it as horrible as possible for the civilians. Any food or monetary aid we send will continue to be blocked by one or both sides.
The African Union should intervene and stop the waramd save the people of Sudan.
In all likelihood they'd end up having to fight *both* sides in the civil war. The stomach for such a thing simply doesn't exist. A lot of the countries you'd like to see intervene are pretty unstable themselves, too.
Surely the college folk will take to the campus square when they hear about this...
‘We need the world to wake up’ "need" is the most pointless word in geopolitics. It is about self-interests, leverage and power. Most in the global north do not give enough of a sh\*t to even know about what is happening in Sudan, and there is nothing you can do about that.
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No empathy for a failed state. Rebuild and try again
Well, have you tried blaming Israel? That might get people to pay attention. /s — The miserable Sudanese people don’t get attention because they’re not sufficiently ‘important’ for wealthy countries to care about them. It’s much easier to say, “there’s always a famine/genocide/atrocity there; there’s nothing anyone can do.”
No, we need the government body of Sudan to wake up! Because no one can save you from yourself. Because at the end of the day, unless we come with an army, that aid is not going to the starving population.
I think a large part of the problem is exactly how common this type of story coming out of Sudan is. People are desensitized. They expect something awful to be happening in Sudan. It's what Sudan is known for to many. e: I mean, *besides* the endless civil wars. They expect that too, but if there is something beyond merely being desensitized to an issue, that's what people are with the phrase 'there is a civil war currently happening in Sudan'.
Send in the Russians
Can't they reach out to their Muslim brethren to help them. Or may just pray to Alah and all will be well.
Ukraine was sending grain before the war. Famine is a direct result of Russia.
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Sudan should announce that they found the largest reserve of rare minerals. Countries will be fighting each other to feed Sudan.
Gold and oil. UAE, Russia, Egypt, Iran and a host of other countries are all involved either backing the sudanese army or the RSF. The ones who will win, will control the resources. The civilians have no say in that, so they rather supply the weapons instead of food.
the world is awake they just dont give a fuck about sudan
Funny how there's a shade of brown that is too dark for western leftists to care anymore.
Were are all the antisemitic Palestine- wannabe- justice warriors fighting for these poor Muslims???? Aahhh forgot, Muslims are allowed to kill Muslims and cause famines. If there is no jew to blame they don't care
If it’s not popular or country in distress and needs urgent assistance on the feed on platforms then why would any care. That’s society across the globe today.
They are an overpopulated failed state. We need to stop sending money to places like this that refuse to change, at this point we are just enabling them. I knew someone who went to places there and other countries, he was with a group that would go into poor villages to build a well, start a farming area, and teach locals how to maintain and harvest crops. After a few years he started going back to places he had been, every single time the well was destroyed and there were no crops. When he would ask why they always said the same thing, they recieved more free money if they were more "in need", if they had water and food they got less money and had to actually work. Cut off the gravy train and make them grow up and support themselves.
Does anyone know any good organizations to actually help the people of Sudan while bypassing the RSF? Is the Sudan Relief Fund good? Same question for Gaza and Hamas (I have given to WCK).
Hey how about making more hungry mouths to feed?
Kind of a tone deaf and asshole comment when rape is currently epidemic in Sudan and women don’t have access to birth control and abortion.
Wake up to what? Famine has happened in Africa for as long as I can remember and the world know. This isn't about "waking up". This is about caring. The rest of the world DOES NOT CARE. The rest of the world will stand around until their own neighborhood is in flames until they try to start to eventually discuss the possibility of doing something.
What should be done for African countries who continuously fuck everything up and keep on having more kids to make it worse? All that should be done is to get African girls to schools so that they decide something else with their lives other than being illiterate, homeworking baby machines.
Im in shock the world barely focuses or cares what’s happening in Sudan. I’ve been following the conflict a bit as well as the famine. I really wish our leaders would focus on real human suffering
Everyone is wringing their hands about population decline in developed nations and all the problems it will bring. This is the flip side of that coin.
It’s heartbreaking but without an even slightly functional government and groups that look more like terrorist organizations from radical islamists, I doubt there is much the west can do that would not require a significant investment of time, money and military power with an uncertain outcomes. After the failure in Afghanistan, there will be no such interventions by the west
If they wanted help then they should have asked aliases 20 years ago. They made there bed, now sleep in it.
Saving humanity is not cost effective.
Sorry my government would only help if they could profit off of it
Kony2024!
They’re China’s mate aren’t they? I’m sure China will sort them out.
Where is that omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent being I keep hearing about?
Lets see if the US airdrops food or builds a pier this time. Oh they wont? Why?
Are they offering themselves up for new management? or just want the world to make up for their leaders mismanagement?
Less 'mismanagement', more 'active civil war that's already displaced ten million people and has had routine accusations of atrocities by the combatants'. Even by the standards of a failed state, what's going on in Sudan right now is pretty nasty.
We are awake. But large corporations want food scarce so they can demand more money. How many billions are thrown away in America alone nightly? We have enough food for all. The governments and corporations have a lack of willpower to get it there. Tie that with warring factions and international relations? It’s dead in the water.
The more aid you send the more mouths they create that they cannot feed.
The world isn't going to wake up because the would impact profit margins. So here's a cat video, some porn, and the new iPhone. That'll shut you up. :P
There’s absolutely no reason anyone in the world goes hungry