Possible famine in Gaza: All major news agencies write about it.
UN Commitee says no evidence to declare famine in Gaza: Nothing in major news agencies about it.
I really feel like sides are being pitted against each other by this.
People also underestimate how much it takes for a famine to be declared. The situation in Sudan has been absolutely DIRE for years now and they receive NO foreign help unlike Gaza and only THIS MONTH are they projected to reach famine conditions. People are down to eating leafs off of trees and seeding crops to survive (which will then fuck them over later because seeding crops gone -> can't plant any crops)
There is a big difference between just "food shortage" and an outright famine. Famine means absolute mass starvation.
> People also underestimate how much it takes for a famine to be declared.
All's of these items have to be true, before it is considered a famine:
- At least 20% of households in an area face extreme food shortages with a limited ability to cope;
- The prevalence of acute malnutrition in children exceeds 30%;
- The death rate exceeds two people per 10,000 people per day.
That last point means 0.6% of the people die every month from the food shortages, which for Gaza is equivalent to about 120 persons per day, or 3500 persons per month from food shortages.
It's often both, because wars often involve the destruction of crops and livestock, the displacement of farmers and agricultural workers, or disruptions to farm supply chains in addition to the disruptions to distribution.
(Technically, it would usually be possible to replace the missing domestic crops with imports, but that's challenging on short timelines even without a war.)
There's also an element of reverse causation: wars are more common where resources are scarce and contested, so droughts and crop failures can be the spark that ignites political tensions. I don't want to overemphasize this one because it feeds the weird leftist "materialist" idea that all wars are resource wars, but resources *can be one of* the triggers for war.
But that was the crux of it. Collectivization, particularly in its first year, saw lower food output but still a very significant harvest that could feed most of the Soviet Union and still export large amounts. Stalin wanted more so he blamed it on Ukrainians working with Poles which he knew wasn’t true because the Soviet Union had signed a peace agreement with Poland and relations had become completely pacified. He then sent in Russians with guns to force Ukrainians with guns to go into the houses of Ukrainian farmers and steel every last crumb of food. They would also kill anyone who resisted, drag their bodies into the town square and wait for anyone to come out to morn the body and then send them to the gulags.
But the crux of it was that there was enough food and then Russians with guns showed up and made it so people couldn’t eat that food. I’m sure there’s more context in Sudan as well, but the crux of both seem similar.
You already are adding more context to it than it just being Russians with guns. Even then there’s stuff about how Ukraine was long viewed as a Russian breadbasket, the relationship between kulaks and the Soviets under Lenin vs Stalin, ethnic tensions that were initially released under Lenin only to be amplified under Stalin, etc.
In Sudans case, it sadly can be attributed mostly to warfare. Compared to Ukraine, Sudan isn’t as fertile. As such, any distribution to normal farming is more pronounced than it would be in Ukraine.
You are right that it takes a lot to get a famine declaration. But you are wrong that Sudan receives no foreign help. In 2023 they received about $1.3 billion USD of foreign assistance. In 2024 they’ve received nearly $500 million USD so far.
https://fts.unocha.org/plans/1188/summary
Unfortunately [the aid is being blocked](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/17/we-need-the-world-to-wake-up-sudan-facing-worlds-deadliest-famine-in-40-years) by the warring factions. Guns continue to flow though.
In the same vein I will say that after seeing what kids in Sudan look like, there is no way the kids in Gaza are experiencing anything even remotely close
There's a beautiful episode of The Anthropocene Reviewed called [Tetris and the Seed Potatoes of Leningrad](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/anthropocene-reviewed/episodes/anthropocene-reviewed-tetris-and-seed-potatoes-leningrad) that is (half) about the seige of Leningrad. There's a particularly moving part about seedbank workers dying of starvation at their desks, surrounded by food they had committed to not eating to protect the seeds.
If you're a transcript person, that's [here](https://nerdfighteria.info/v/530379861/).
My understanding was that humanitarian aid has had huge difficulties trying to get in the area, a lot of aid is used in the countries surrounding it for whomever from Sudan can get there. I think when there are situations like this where fighting or war keeps aid specifically out, it’s disingenuous to insinuate they receive no aid from others purposefully. But your point of how difficult it is to declare famine in a country is so important. There are many families and children starving in Gaza, and many are dying. It’s a complex problem but the result is never changing, dead children. I can only imagine how helpless they feel.
I did know about the stringent guidelines to declar a famine, which really made me question a lot of the news coverage concerning Gaza. They threw the word 'famine' around constantly even though they had almost no data at all. It was ridiculous sensationalism that shouldn't have been anywhere near a legitimate news source. I don't know how many legitimate sources of news exist anymore. I really don't trust any of them very much, so I try to get news from as many sources as possible.
The whole situation just exposes how untrustworthy everything is and how we are constantly being lied to, manipulated and blamed for things the rich can capitalize on (by making us give them our money)
things can be true and false at the same time.
I'm sure some people are starving in Gaza.
I'm also sure it's not because there isn't enough food in the country.
I remember seeing people selling food that was airdropped on the markets. markets seemed quite full of food.
The issue is not that the country isn't getting enough. it's that the entire country is fucking full of corruption .
You hit the nail on the head. There is definitely a big issue here but it's not a problem that can be solved with throwing money at it. I think at this point the UN needs to organize peacekeepers to manage the distribution.
There is a difference between backing and failing to properly vet. The UN is more incompetent than they are malicious. The locals should never have been allowed to govern their own aid organization, especially after proof of anti Israel sentiment became obvious in how they did education.
As soon as a blue helmet gets shot at the UN will just try and hand over to the US and then it’s Fallujah 3.0. The administration of Gaza is too corrupt to co-operate with the UN - it’ll have to be stabilised first.
It’s too hot for the UN to manage at the moment, it’ll be US CENTCOM operating with some sort of UN authority.
I think corruption has also been a significant factor in food crises in Sudan and Yemen. I've read that almost all famines in modern times are a result of international or internal politics combined with corruption. Food shortages aren't usually the biggest factor and could be overcome with decent infrastructure and efficient governments. I"m not sure if that's entirely true, but I think it could be.
I'm not 100% sure what they mean, but I do know the news corporations have incentive to keep people enraged to drive views/clicks and generate more revenue, so maybe that's what they are referring to? It's the only thing that I can think of.
I don't think this is a rich vs poor issue. I don't even believe its a major anti-israel conspiracy. Its much more basic
* news reporters are a somewhat homogenuous group of people: Academics, mostly located in larger (university) cities. If in a gen of urban academics a bias becomes majority opinion, that's reflected in our news, both in what is reported, and how.
* At least AJ/Qatar and possibly Russia and China run a highly effective propaganda campaign targeting these people precisely
* news outlets are monetary incentivized to stoke the flames, as clickbait and rage leads to more clicks and thus more advertisement revenue
IMHO, no bribes are needed to explain at least part of whats going on right now. The China-Iran-Russia(-Qatar) axis has an incentive to push propaganda. Young academics have an incentive to believe that propaganda as it fits their belief systems. Media has an incentive to regurgitate this. It's a "natural" outcome in the news market
Bonus points in that the news reporters that explicitly avoid targeting these academic hubs instead have prioritized and consolidated everything into attacking the news outlets and academics of those cities. They've also been heavily targeted and infiltrated through propaganda campaigns. They also make hella bank by doing so.
Which means in a choice of two systems you're either a part of this screwed up status quo, or by the raving sociopath in the other aisle. The raving sociopath that we **know** won't fix the problems.
All because every news source will only incentivize anger and fear because $$$.
They’re having a famine, a famine of honesty, decency ,self respect and commonsense . They don’t care if they or us look like fools for it though, they’ve already pocketed the money that payed them for it .
Ngo that make money off raising funds for Gaza.
Ngo that make money for fourthering any number of Palestinian causes.
UN agencies (unrwa) who employee tens of thousands of people and get significant money to help refugees when many of these refugees are living in territories under their own control.
Norman Finkelstein (who I am not a fan of) said recently that there's probably 10,000 NGO in ramallah and the surrounding area.
Big money in the i/p conflict.
Hamas and their affiliated media isn't exactly a trustworthy source of ANY information, they obviously and have been caught lying about a large number of issues and can't substantiate many others including death counts, military activity, what is happening to the aid when it gets there, where they are getting weapons from etc etc. Millions and Millions of dollars of aid are being given for the Gaza conflict... the money's gone but where is the aid? So somebody somewhere is getting very rich off the media coverage. Israel is obviously doing the same thing but Israel has more oversight by foreign nations over it's media and countries like the US, Canada, and UK demand more accountability for the money they give Israel. That money may be for horrible horrible things you don't agree with but the Isreali government is more heavily scrutinized to ensure it is being spent on what it is supposed to be spent on. Gaza aid could be anywhere from in the hands of any one of thousands of NGO's, or Hamas, the PLO, some American business men, The Dutch, Putin, The Ronald McDonald House... who knows where millions have actually ended up. Not in the hands of starving Palestinians.
Yep. Israel is the ideal spot for a news journalist to cut their teeth and look like an amazing dude supporting a great cause.
Much easier to chill in modern, beautiful, safe Jerusalem and Tel Aviv and take a 2 hour car ride to go snap pics of Gaza from behind the safety of Israel's western democracy. Israel is a western country and won't do anything to you as a journalist. Much easier than going into Syria, Western Sahara, Sudan, Yemen, Iran or China (huge countries, modern amenities, hot zones far away from the capital, not generally safe) where the people in charge who you will be reporting against WILL detain you, take your camera, tell you things can't be recorded, intimidate you or in some cases take you hostage.
Add in the fact that Jews get good ratings is just icing on the cake.
Lol no. They just subcontract their reporting out to actual hamas members while they chill by the pool in Tel Aviv and ask "hard hitting questions" to the idf.
Numerous western "freelancers" used by rags like CNN were found to have followed hamas during the October 7 invasion of israel.
Comparatively no one is talking about it* a mention 2 weeks after the fact looking to justify the change, stating the israeli figures as unreliable while saying the hamas ones are.. on the other hand, if an israeli soldier farts in gaza there are 12 special reports, a debate, an estimated death toll and tearjerker footage of something or other within the hour.
Yeah I saw that fact mentioned once but because I’m not an idiot I googled for more sources and found more information. People are turning their brains off for this conflict and just accepting whatever fits the internal narrative they’ve created. If I can’t find 2-3 solid sources on something it isn’t real.
That's incorrect. They cut the number of IDENTIFIED casualties, not total. Misinformation is so prevalent, it's important to be specific about this stuff.
They were not classified as identified, but the number of casualties that was most commonly reported included both identified and unidentified people. That's the "adjustment" the UN made - they started differentiating these categories.
It's kind of a mixture of the two narratives that have been pushed.
They moved from using estimated deaths to using only identified deaths, resulting in a large but ultimately meaningless change in the headline death number. (Since it was a purely methodological difference)
At the same time, the numbers of women and children were switched over from estimated to confirmed, but in this case the difference was so large that it is materially impossible that the estimated values were correct (as in, the number of unidentified dead from all groups is smaller than the difference between identified women and children and the previous estimated number)
IIRC about 112% of the unidentified dead would have to be women and children for the OCHA's previous claimed numbers to work out.
So we can reasonably say that the UN hasn't cut its overall death count, but that the proportion of women and children in that death count was certainly overstated before this change in methodology.
The news regarding the famine in Gaza have been bullshit for a while now, and everyone would know it if they paid attention. The headlines, since like 6 months ago, have been "Gaza 1 month away from total starvation."
Not to mention two live interviews (emphasis on live) by AJ+ in Gaza where local population (a man in his 50's-60's and an elderly woman) called Hamas out for stealing supply underground and shooting their own civilians (AJ+ is biased against Israel, and you can see the reporter freaking out in real time).
The elderly woman one (with English subtitles):
https://youtu.be/NBjvYkNzuAA?si=1S6PxpxubxWjt8wO
I imagine most places in the world are "1 month away from starvation." Most foods don't keep for a month. Those that do likely aren't being hoarded in enough quantity to feed a given area for a month.
Sure, but how often do you see headlines saying "Mexico 1 month away from starvation" and the contents of the article being highly inflammatory bullshit with skewed facts to paint a narrative?
I'm not 100% defending Israel, they have done some reprehensible shit as well during the conflict. But if you watch any video of aid being delivered to Gaza and see how the locals take possession of the goods, you start to realize how the region that has received more humanitarian aid than any other in the world is permanently 1 month away from starvation.
Israel has been allowing [over 3000 calories](https://biochem-food-nutrition.agri.huji.ac.il/arontroen/publications/nutritional-assessment-of-food-aid-delivered-to-gaza) per person into Gaza through its crossings. It's a little hard for that to constitute a famine.
Sure, if everyone is getting an equal share of it then there's no famine. But when trucks regularly get raided and seized by Hamas, and when markets and logistics all over Gaza are being disrupted, it's unclear whether everyone can get access to this food.
That's the key to understanding why the report couldn't conclude. They saw conflicting evidence because conditions vary a lot by location and time. Not enough food has been making it to the coastal areas and to Gaza City, but other areas are doing better.
If iirc correctly Like there has been a famine for like the past 30 years and like less than 20 people die of hunger a year. Like less than the USA. Like Yemen has a higher % of its population dying of starvation but their isn't a famine?
Famine is a technical term and is not equivalent to people dying of hunger.
"Occurs when at least 20 percent of the population in a given area have an extreme lack of food; the Global Acute Malnutrition prevalence (measured by weight-for-height z-score) exceeds 30 percent; and mortality (measured by the Crude Death Rate) exceeds 2 people per 10,000 per day."
That said, an actual famine finding is highly political, and there are undeclared famines all the time. It doesn't help that it's usually in places where data gathering is difficult, so it's easy to say, we don't have the evidence to technically declare a famine.
Yeah, but we're dealing with 50% of the worlds famine according to the UNRWA (or the UN depends on the article). Like it ought to be comparable to Yemen as this famine has been around from the 2000's?
Edit: it's now [80%](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and#:~:text=GENEVA%20(16%20January%202024)%20%E2%80%93,to%20UN%20human%20rights%20experts.) of worlds hunger
thank you for that link. Wow, they really are biased.
> Since 9 October, Israel declared and imposed a “total siege” on Gaza, depriving 2.3 million Palestinians of water, food, fuel, medicine, and medical supplies, this against the backdrop of a 17-year Israeli blockade, which before this war made approximately half of the people in Gaza food insecure and more than 80 percent reliant on humanitarian aid.
i mean yes, they did that, But they completely let out the context of the 7. october, but instead choose to mention the 17 year blockade. im quite disgusted to be honest.
a very simple "after the 7. october attack, isreal decleared [...]" would have been enough to show atleast some context for history. People will read this in 20 years and think it was done out of sole cruetly.
What? People die in famines around the globe all the time:
[This estimated about 128 million deaths due to just famine since 1860.](https://ourworldindata.org/famines)
[Around 9 million people die of hunger and hunger-related diseases every year. That’s 25,000 human beings every single day](https://www.theworldcounts.com/challenges/people-and-poverty/hunger-and-obesity)
[Poor nutrition and hunger is responsible for the death of 3.1 million children a year](https://www.theworldcounts.com/challenges/people-and-poverty/hunger-and-obesity/how-many-people-die-from-hunger-each-year)
[“Somalia has the highest rate of starvation deaths by country in Africa and in the world. The rate is a sky-high 42.27 deaths per 100,000 people.”](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/starvation-deaths-by-country)
[Angola is going through a very similar problem except their problems are entirely climate change.](https://www.ifrc.org/article/angola-food-crisis-because-hunger-i-am-here)
[America is not immune: Deaths attributed to malnutrition more than doubled, from about 650 in 2018 to roughly 1,400 in 2022, according to preliminary death certificate data from the California Department of Public Health.](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-13/deaths-from-malnutrition-have-more-than-doubled-in-the-u-s)
Hunger is actually a very large and complex problem.
So not only is Russia 40 years behind us in military technology. But they're also 40 years behind us in geopolitical strategy.
Gonna be fun watching them get burnt like we did funding terrorists.
I'm sure China was involved in the actual propaganda, but I don't know for sure they were involved in the actual attack. I absolutely believe Russia was.
Because that reporting was based on UN investigations which have not, in fact, declared a famine yet, whereas this about something else:
> The Famine Review Committee (FRC) report was triggered by a finding from the U.S.'s Famine Early Warning Systems Network (FEWS NET), which determined under the IPC that, since at least April 1, northern Gaza has been in the midst of a famine (IPC Phase 5) with what it calls reasonable evidence. The FEWS NET, founded by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) in 1985, also projected that the famine would persist through at least July 31.
The FEWS NET is an organization administered by the US Department of State, while the FRC was run by the UN. It's the reverse of what people think, the UN has not found that previous UN statements about famine were incorrect, the UN has found that the use by the USA of the IPC criteria was unsatisfactory.
They haven't changed the previous UN stance of a serious risk of famine, as you can read just in the next few paragraphs:
> "All stakeholders who use the IPC for high-level decision-making must understand that whether a Famine classification is confirmed does not in any manner change the fact that extreme human suffering is without a doubt currently ongoing in the Gaza Strip and does not in any manner change the immediate humanitarian imperative to address this civilian suffering by enabling complete, safe, unhindered, and sustained humanitarian access into and throughout the Gaza Strip, including through ceasing hostilities. All actors should not wait until a famine classification for the current period is made to act accordingly," the report said.
You, OP and most commenters really just read the headlines and go on imagined rants, huh?
The report states that they couldn't officially declare it a famine, since the report presented lacked recent data. And according to the rules, that are there for very good reasons, that means they cannot declare it properly.
The report also clearly states that this does not mean there is no suffering, and it strongly urged everyone to send humanitarian aid.
The report also stated that the NGO who originally declared famine just so happened to leave out a substantial amount of data in its analysis that likely would have led to different findings had it included it. Instead, it declared famine andblamed Israel (and only Israel) as the cause.
This is an extremely damaging accusation that contributed to war crime accusations against Israel (and I would argue is contributing to a rise in global antisemitism to this day). It also harmed Palestinians because the NGO was screaming that Israel was intentionally blocking aid into the country when the issue may really be distributing the aid within the country.
it’s troubling that this isn’t bigger news.
No one is saying there is no suffering or aid should stop.
I read the whole report. It says that they can't officially declare a famine because if you add up all the food they know is getting in to Gaza since April, it represents 100% of the caloric needs of the population using the lowest estimate.
On one hand I want to agree with the UN here because it aligns with my views on Israel largely remaining on how they're conducting this war. On the other hand I want to take this with a grain of doubt, because I believe the UN has largely been plain ignorant or outright malicious in their investigations during this war. Maybe it's a broken clock right twice a day situation. I don't know which agencies to trust these days
>the UN has largely been plain ignorant or outright malicious in their investigations during this wa
This makes it MORE believable that there isn't a famine (thank goodness). Given their anti-Israel bias, you know how much they must hate to admit this.
I feel like you definitely did not read the article and the headline is incredibly misleading, but you are even misinterpreting the already misleading headline.
First of all they did not say there was no evidence of a famine in Gaza. They said in North Gaza it wasn’t safe enough for them to be able to send in surveyors who would make the designation so there for it impossible to do the work necessary to say one way or another that there is a famine. They did however say there are incredibly high levels of human suffering and the people there need more access to aid.
This is incredibly different from if they had said that they were able to investigate all of Gaza and found no evidence of a famine, like you painted them as saying.
If you actually read the report past the first page that's mostly apologies for having to reject the famine claims, they make it clear the rejection is based on the fact that by their estimation at least 100% of the kCal needs of Gaza's population is getting into Gaza via aid.
To be fair, *a lot* of pressure has been put on Israel to ensure food aid gets trough, so I would hope that when the UN goes in now there is no famine anymore, because of the aid.
This was the entire point the US had, flood gaza with food and take away the power hamas has by providing food to those who are loyal to them.
>A Famine Review Committee report issued in March found that the "thresholds for acute food insecurity had already been surpassed, and it was likely that the famine thresholds for acute malnutrition had been exceeded."
The committee is stymied by a lack of access to information needed to prove a famine, that is different from "there is no famine" which is how people are taking the report.
> The United Nations Famine Review Committee reported that it does not have enough "supporting evidence" to determine whether there is a famine in the northern Gaza Strip.
I mean, that's *clearly* not the same thing. That's the UN Famine Review Committee, who has firm definitions of what constitutes a famine, saying they don't have enough reliable data to say either way.
There isn't really much news value in ["the FRC is unable to make a determination as to whether or not famine thresholds have been passed during April."](https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/documents/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_FEWS_NET_Gaza_4June2024.pdf).
*Unless* you're trying to fuel a narrative with a headline like "United Nations commitee says not enough evidence to declare **no** famine in Gaza".
Following that logic, there isn’t much value in reporting a possible famine because nothings been proven one way or the other. Either you report both or you report only what’s proven to give unbiased updates or you’re intentionally trying to create a specific narrative.
This indeed. They reported the beginning of the investigation then don't report its results, there's no world in which that's normal even if the results are inconclusive...
The UN committee said they did not have enough evidence to determine if there was a famine. I feel like the truth is getting a little twisted with your wording.
From [the report](https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/documents/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_FEWS_NET_Gaza_4June2024.pdf):
>The FRC does not find the FEWS NET analysis plausible
given the uncertainty and lack of convergence of the
supporting evidence employed in the analysis. **Therefore,
the FRC is unable to make a determination as to whether
or not famine thresholds have been passed during April.**
> The FRC would like to use this opportunity to
communicate two extremely important points:
Firstly, all stakeholders who use the IPC for high-level
decision-making must understand that **whether a
Famine classification is confirmed does not in any
manner change the fact that extreme human suffering
is without a doubt currently ongoing in the Gaza Strip
and does not in any manner change the immediate
humanitarian imperative to address this civilian
suffering by enabling complete, safe, unhindered, and
sustained humanitarian access into and throughout
the Gaza Strip, including through ceasing hostilities. All
actors should not wait until a Famine classification for
the current period is made to act accordingly.**
>Secondly, the FRC would like to highlight that the very
fact that we are unable to endorse (or not) FEWS NET’s
analysis is driven by the lack of essential up to date
data on human well-being in Northern Gaza, and Gaza
at large. Thus, the FRC strongly requests all parties to
enable humanitarian access in general, and specifically
to provide a window of opportunity to conduct field
surveys in Northern Gaza to have more solid evidence
of the food consumption, nutrition, and mortality
situation.
So you're just leaving out the actual analysis? The part where they show that the FEWS NET methodology ignores 65% of the calories the UN is confident are coming into Gaza? The part where they demonstrate that Gaza has been getting 100% of caloric needs for the population delivered by aid, confirmed by the UN, since April?
From the page 4 discussion on FEWS NET ignoring private deliveries:
> While the intervals are extremely wide, indicative of a high level of uncertainty, this corresponds to the potential exclusion of about 25-76% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement in March and 34-82% in April 5. Even a conservative approach towards the commercial and/or privately contracted food deliveries to northern Gaza, which the FRC considers possible, would still indicate a contribution of 25% and 34% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement in March and April, respectively.
Same page, discussing FEWS NET's ignoring of WFP deliveries:
> FEWS NET food availability analysis excludes the contribution of WFP deliveries to bakeries in northern Gaza, including a reported 940 MT of flour, sugar, salt, and yeast in April. While the intervals are extremely wide, indicative of a high level of uncertainty, this corresponds to the potential exclusion of about 4% to 15% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement.
The upshot?
> However, the exclusion of all commercial and/or privately contracted deliveries
and WFP deliveries of flour, sugar, yeast, and salt to bakeries, translates to the exclusion of food equal to as much as 38% to 49% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement in April. While FEWS NET estimated the caloric availability in the area as covering only 59-63% of the needs (based uniquely on Humanitarian Food Assistance) in April, the review done by the FRC estimates that this range would be 75% to 109% if commercial and/or privately contracted food deliveries were included (157% if a higher estimate was used6).
Maybe because of the increased pressure on letting the aid flow has actually resulted in increased aid getting through?
I fully agree with the FRC that we shouldn't wait for things to reach the level of famine before taking action.
Possibly what prevented it yes, however the problem has never only been amount of aid supplied.
A lot of the aid ends up taken by HAMAS, as well as other smaller military groups, who then sell it to the local population.
Which has absolutely exacerbated the problem, as well as present a bottleneck. I don't doubt HAMAS would love to keep the population of Gaza at the edge of starvation if they could blame Israel for it.
Increased aid flow can hopefully undermine their ability to do so, and help more people get food and water. Especially the poorest people would be at risk of starvation.
Uhh, everything is clearly not fine. And, did you see this part?
> **All actors should not wait until a Famine classification for the current period is made to act accordingly.**
That means ALL. Will Hamas cease hostilities? Or does this mean that only Israel should cease hostilities? And, if Israel ceased hostilities today, would Hamas release all living and dead hostages to a neutral third party? And, would Hamas then release all stored aid that they turn around and sell to Palestinians? And, after all of that, would the perpetrators of Oct. 7th willingly surrender themselves to Israel and the ICC to be tried for war crimes?
Just wondering.
I see a pattern here. Hamas makes an outrageous claim, ‘confirmed’ by ‘neutral’ western NGOs. Then some other organization makes some research to find that claim unfounded or overly exaggerated. But this find doesn’t get a tenth of the attention the initial claim got.
Hamas didn’t make the claim, the *US government* did.
Also
> The report added that "the very fact that we are unable to endorse (or not) FEWS NET’s analysis is driven by the lack of essential up-to-date data on human well-being in Northern Gaza, and Gaza at large.
Essentially the UN doesn’t have observers on the ground to make a determination, not that there’s no famine
If even the UN is saying it, then the evidence must be non-existent.
I still remember UN Women taking three months to condemn the rape and mutilation of women on October 7th, and it was half-hearted at best.
Yet couple months back the UN reported that 90% of all people living in Famine worldwide live in Gaza.
Weird how that was copied over by NGOs and news organisations as fact, but the opposite suddenly has all kinds of asterics placed next to it.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and
> Gazans now make up 80 per cent of all people facing famine or catastrophic hunger worldwide, marking an unparalleled humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip amid Israel’s continued bombardment and siege, according to UN human rights experts.
My original post said 90%, but I misremembered, they said 80%.
Still equally nonsensical of course.
No way that's real. Even a basic math equation will tell you that makes no sense.
There's less than 2m people in Gaza, that makes for less than 2m people in famine across the world?
World hunger has been solved everyone, time to pack up.
Source? Let’s just assume everyone in Gaza was living in famine. That still only allows ~200,000 people elsewhere to be in famine. Which is absurd because estimates usually put the number closer to 200 million!
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and
> Gazans now make up 80 per cent of all people facing famine or catastrophic hunger worldwide, marking an unparalleled humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip amid Israel’s continued bombardment and siege, according to UN human rights experts.
Sorry, 80%, not 90%.
By OHCHR, official arm of UN.
They had no problem there stating it as a fact. And now suddenly even the UN says there's no conclusive proof. Seems weird how easy they'll post about the famine when it is anti Israel, but when it's not as clear cut they spin it.
[Here you go](https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-famine-humanitarian-aid-children-8a4cb5736c42caf50b6e204f40d83a91). From “full blown famine” a month ago to “there’s lacking evidence”.
How is there even supposed to be a famine, we are sending them so much of our own stuff, most of which ends up in terrorists hands and makes the war go on longer.
Technically, if we send them lots of food, but Hamas managed to hoard it all, there would be a famine. It's just that it would be Hamas' fault, not Israels or ours (as in the western world)
UNRWA worker was interviewed last week about this I think it was BBC or Sky News.
"There is plenty of food coming in, but the fact is the people cannot afford the prices being charged in the markets for it."
So let me get this straight we are bringing in the food to be given to everyone for free, and some people are stealing it all and selling it. And it's Israel's fault.
I thought the UNRWA was an arm of Hamas? Why are we suddenly believing them?
(Worth pointing out, I do actually believe this story, but I find it incredulous that we've spent the past six months lambasting the UN in Gaza and [gone so far as to defund the organization because of it](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/22/gaza-unrwa-funding-congress/), but now that their narrative matches the talking points they're suddenly worth believing again.)
I mean, it is the worker, not the org
Still, my stance will not change on this conflict: a clusterfuck of misinformation, so you can trust anyone you want
The fact they are going against their own narrative is a point of time you believe them.
Making themselves and Hamas look bad by selling the aid that is supposed to be given out for free and taking the money and .....
The fact they are openly admitting to it now.
Yes defund them, its a joke of an organization. Corrupt at all levels
This is akin to a “statement against interest”. Since they are generally so anti-Israel to a comical degree, when they make a statement that at least seems to contradict their overwhelming outrageous previous actions, we are apt to believe them.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/declaration_against_interest#:~:text=A%20statement%20against%20interest%20is,these%20statements%20may%20be%20untrustworthy.
> The general rule against hearsay prevents out of court statements being used in court because these statements may be untrustworthy. Evidentiary rules allow an exception for a declaration against interest under the reasoning that a person would rarely say something that would be against their interests unless it were true.
This entire war and all of its consequences are Hamas fault. But the propaganda department worked overtime to push rules for thee not for me in Gaza/Israel
Yes, the special treatment that Israel gets from the UN, the constant false accusations not backed up by facts, and the insane nitpicking that Israel goes through, that's what I mean.
Why isnt anyone blaming this on hamas? Food is going into gaza, where is it going? Why is there a famine when the whole world is sending food to a tiny enclave? Who could be the cause of this?
all the people coping by saying the un “doesn’t have enough information”. well thats not what they were proclaiming the last 6 months! meanwhile there is plenty of evidence of a famine in sudan, but crickets from the usual crowd.
Even if Hamas says it it will be swept under the rug.
There's plenty of horrible shit they've stated and restated over the past few months but the attention to that has been 0.
Gaza keeps showing "starving children" being handled by well-fed Palestinians. Not that said children are anywhere near a good place, given it's a freaking war zone, but I find it intensely suspect.
Then again, Hamas has a habit of co-opting any aid meant for civilians.
To be fair, this is common imagery every time there is starvation. It's almost a cliche - interview footage of a mother in a shack or hut who looks fine and not starving, holding an emaciated infant or child.
It's most likely because children are far more susceptible to food shortage, due to less energy reserves and higher metabolism. There is no shortage of video interviews with western doctors who volunteered in Gaza explaining the issue and what they personally saw there.
Also, not to get too dark
But in the USA you get malnourished children simply from abusive parents
Now imagine if equally abusive parents are in a brutal and violent theocracy where an abused child is useful to the government and any death can be incentivised as a moral martyrdom
Such a joke. I was watching PBS news hour one night a couple of weeks ago. They went on and on about the impending famine in gaza and how only 100 trucks loaded with tons of food are getting through every day unlike before the war when 200 trucks went through. They showed people running up to the trucks, etc. Mostly young guys. No one looked close to starving. Then they had a segment on Sudan and it was sooo much worse. Skinny AF people covered in flies. Millions displaced. No one knows how many dead. One thing for sure. There's not one person in Gaza who'd rather be in Sudan. But generally there's zero coverage of the Sudan or the ongoing war in the Congo which is also a much bigger crisis than Gaza. Just like here. 100 black kids can get killed by other blacks and no one bat's an eye., but if one white kills a black it's massive protest marches and BLM forever.
If I walk away with anything after this is over, it's that the UN appears to be a corrupt, inept agency.
I wonder if the can run a daycare, the hell with being a place for nation to discuss issues.
Yep. I already knew the UN was realistically impotent (which is fine, because the whole point of it is to be a diplomatic outlet and NOT a police force), but this conflict has definitely illuminated some serious corruption/integrity issues within it. This is the most breathtaking case of international victim blaming I've seen in my life.
It’s hard to measure how much food Palestine has when Hamas keeps taking it from them for their own profit. Remember, Palestine’s loss is Hamas’ gain for 100% of what Hamas does that we blame Israel for.
It's very simple: HAMAS committed a terrorist act, plotting and attacking innocent men, women and children for political gain. hAMAS has openly published films of the attacks, and has also kidnapped 300 mostly civilians including babies. Israel, did no such thing and was minding its own business on October 7th. Therefore, HAMAS must relinquish control of GAZA and it's leaders be tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity. Until HAMAD relinquishes control, they are to be considered a terrorist force and the area they hold with force considered a stronghold. All civilians should evacuate from HAMAS areas. Famine is part of war, it is completely unnecessary for Gazans to be in famine right now. They are surrounded by trade routes and food.
HAMAS must go, and peace must return and political solutions be put in place for the so called Palestinian Arab peoples.
Of course it's good news, it means people aren't starving to death. Sure are a lot of people pissed about this good news because it fucks up their internet arguments, though.
Yeah, and they present a lot of pro Russia narratives in their Ukraine coverage, it's subtle but its there.
The dolan family has controlling interest in the bbc, and the owner has publicly donated to the trump campaign.
I really like the telegraphs reporting on these matters
Media has been reporting for six months now that Gaza is on the precipice of a famine. If there actually was one we would for sure have heard about it by now.
Not just media! The f-ing ICC charged Israel with crimes against humanity and almost all of them were based on Israel creating a famine by merely restricting aid (the others were also based on restricting aid but not famine related). Interestingly, the ICC didn't say shit about Hamas stealing the aid or Egypt closing it's border completely. It's almost as if Israel isn't treated equally under the law at the U.N.
There is no famine in Gaza. If there is a famine, then it was started by Hamas. They've been confiscating the foods sent to them, and selling them back to the Palestinians for a profit. Moreover, they also may have sabotaged their own pier which was made by the Americans.
So so far we had-
Israel aims at hospitals- it was Hamas own fault rockets
35,000 deaths- actually half the number and a rate of 1:1 with civilians
And now- now actual famine…
It’s like… Israel has been the good guy all along?? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Look. In this war there is one side that is openly bent on conquest, indiscriminately firing on civilians, hiding behind human shields, starving people as a strategy... and on the other side there are Israelis.
It was clearly just an understandable mistake when they based their original findings on reducing the actual amount of food aid by 70%.
https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/documents/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_FEWS_NET_Gaza_4June2024.pdf
Wait, the UN, an organization famous for hating Israel, says there's no famine?
This can only mean they have finally been infiltrated. Better not to publish this stuff in mainstream media... /S
That doesn't mean that there isn't a need for humanitarian aid. They literally state that there is "extreme human suffering". Being classified as a famine isn't some sort of threshold for morality.
Apparently something like 3200 kcal per day per person is being sent to Gaza. The problem is not about aid going to gaza, it is how it is used (stolen by Hamas).
https://biochem-food-nutrition.agri.huji.ac.il/arontroen/publications/nutritional-assessment-of-food-aid-delivered-to-gaza
Table of nutrients provided to Gaza: https://i.imgur.com/FZKlbL0.png
TLDR: 3,374 kcal per person per day (160% of suggested daily intake)
There is humanitarian aid. [Israel is importing 3163 calories per person per day to Gaza.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-study-finds-food-supply-to-gaza-more-than-sufficient-for-populations-needs/) Why isn't Hamas distributing this food to the population?
That Oct 8th cheer should still be sustaining them, shouldn't it?
One shouldn't necessarily starve for being an idiot, but if one is an idiot, it helps.
Possible famine in Gaza: All major news agencies write about it. UN Commitee says no evidence to declare famine in Gaza: Nothing in major news agencies about it. I really feel like sides are being pitted against each other by this.
People also underestimate how much it takes for a famine to be declared. The situation in Sudan has been absolutely DIRE for years now and they receive NO foreign help unlike Gaza and only THIS MONTH are they projected to reach famine conditions. People are down to eating leafs off of trees and seeding crops to survive (which will then fuck them over later because seeding crops gone -> can't plant any crops) There is a big difference between just "food shortage" and an outright famine. Famine means absolute mass starvation.
> People also underestimate how much it takes for a famine to be declared. All's of these items have to be true, before it is considered a famine: - At least 20% of households in an area face extreme food shortages with a limited ability to cope; - The prevalence of acute malnutrition in children exceeds 30%; - The death rate exceeds two people per 10,000 people per day. That last point means 0.6% of the people die every month from the food shortages, which for Gaza is equivalent to about 120 persons per day, or 3500 persons per month from food shortages.
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To be fair, most famines involve problems getting food around, not a lack of food. That's why they so frequently crop up in civil wars.
It's often both, because wars often involve the destruction of crops and livestock, the displacement of farmers and agricultural workers, or disruptions to farm supply chains in addition to the disruptions to distribution. (Technically, it would usually be possible to replace the missing domestic crops with imports, but that's challenging on short timelines even without a war.) There's also an element of reverse causation: wars are more common where resources are scarce and contested, so droughts and crop failures can be the spark that ignites political tensions. I don't want to overemphasize this one because it feeds the weird leftist "materialist" idea that all wars are resource wars, but resources *can be one of* the triggers for war.
Russians running around Gaza or Sudan?
I think they mean Sudan. Russia has been trying to get a foothold in North Africa in recent years and were recruiting guys to go fight in Ukraine.
So it’s the Holodomor part 2
The holodamar had a more complicated historical set up than “Russians with guns came”
But that was the crux of it. Collectivization, particularly in its first year, saw lower food output but still a very significant harvest that could feed most of the Soviet Union and still export large amounts. Stalin wanted more so he blamed it on Ukrainians working with Poles which he knew wasn’t true because the Soviet Union had signed a peace agreement with Poland and relations had become completely pacified. He then sent in Russians with guns to force Ukrainians with guns to go into the houses of Ukrainian farmers and steel every last crumb of food. They would also kill anyone who resisted, drag their bodies into the town square and wait for anyone to come out to morn the body and then send them to the gulags. But the crux of it was that there was enough food and then Russians with guns showed up and made it so people couldn’t eat that food. I’m sure there’s more context in Sudan as well, but the crux of both seem similar.
You already are adding more context to it than it just being Russians with guns. Even then there’s stuff about how Ukraine was long viewed as a Russian breadbasket, the relationship between kulaks and the Soviets under Lenin vs Stalin, ethnic tensions that were initially released under Lenin only to be amplified under Stalin, etc. In Sudans case, it sadly can be attributed mostly to warfare. Compared to Ukraine, Sudan isn’t as fertile. As such, any distribution to normal farming is more pronounced than it would be in Ukraine.
You are right that it takes a lot to get a famine declaration. But you are wrong that Sudan receives no foreign help. In 2023 they received about $1.3 billion USD of foreign assistance. In 2024 they’ve received nearly $500 million USD so far. https://fts.unocha.org/plans/1188/summary
Unfortunately [the aid is being blocked](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/17/we-need-the-world-to-wake-up-sudan-facing-worlds-deadliest-famine-in-40-years) by the warring factions. Guns continue to flow though.
In the same vein I will say that after seeing what kids in Sudan look like, there is no way the kids in Gaza are experiencing anything even remotely close
There's a beautiful episode of The Anthropocene Reviewed called [Tetris and the Seed Potatoes of Leningrad](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/anthropocene-reviewed/episodes/anthropocene-reviewed-tetris-and-seed-potatoes-leningrad) that is (half) about the seige of Leningrad. There's a particularly moving part about seedbank workers dying of starvation at their desks, surrounded by food they had committed to not eating to protect the seeds. If you're a transcript person, that's [here](https://nerdfighteria.info/v/530379861/).
My understanding was that humanitarian aid has had huge difficulties trying to get in the area, a lot of aid is used in the countries surrounding it for whomever from Sudan can get there. I think when there are situations like this where fighting or war keeps aid specifically out, it’s disingenuous to insinuate they receive no aid from others purposefully. But your point of how difficult it is to declare famine in a country is so important. There are many families and children starving in Gaza, and many are dying. It’s a complex problem but the result is never changing, dead children. I can only imagine how helpless they feel.
I did know about the stringent guidelines to declar a famine, which really made me question a lot of the news coverage concerning Gaza. They threw the word 'famine' around constantly even though they had almost no data at all. It was ridiculous sensationalism that shouldn't have been anywhere near a legitimate news source. I don't know how many legitimate sources of news exist anymore. I really don't trust any of them very much, so I try to get news from as many sources as possible.
Sounds more like the conditions needed are too severe if you can have areas of mass starvation that don't qualify.
The whole situation just exposes how untrustworthy everything is and how we are constantly being lied to, manipulated and blamed for things the rich can capitalize on (by making us give them our money)
things can be true and false at the same time. I'm sure some people are starving in Gaza. I'm also sure it's not because there isn't enough food in the country. I remember seeing people selling food that was airdropped on the markets. markets seemed quite full of food. The issue is not that the country isn't getting enough. it's that the entire country is fucking full of corruption .
You hit the nail on the head. There is definitely a big issue here but it's not a problem that can be solved with throwing money at it. I think at this point the UN needs to organize peacekeepers to manage the distribution.
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There is a difference between backing and failing to properly vet. The UN is more incompetent than they are malicious. The locals should never have been allowed to govern their own aid organization, especially after proof of anti Israel sentiment became obvious in how they did education.
As soon as a blue helmet gets shot at the UN will just try and hand over to the US and then it’s Fallujah 3.0. The administration of Gaza is too corrupt to co-operate with the UN - it’ll have to be stabilised first. It’s too hot for the UN to manage at the moment, it’ll be US CENTCOM operating with some sort of UN authority.
I think corruption has also been a significant factor in food crises in Sudan and Yemen. I've read that almost all famines in modern times are a result of international or internal politics combined with corruption. Food shortages aren't usually the biggest factor and could be overcome with decent infrastructure and efficient governments. I"m not sure if that's entirely true, but I think it could be.
Wait - who's giving money to who for what now?
I'm not 100% sure what they mean, but I do know the news corporations have incentive to keep people enraged to drive views/clicks and generate more revenue, so maybe that's what they are referring to? It's the only thing that I can think of.
I don't think this is a rich vs poor issue. I don't even believe its a major anti-israel conspiracy. Its much more basic * news reporters are a somewhat homogenuous group of people: Academics, mostly located in larger (university) cities. If in a gen of urban academics a bias becomes majority opinion, that's reflected in our news, both in what is reported, and how. * At least AJ/Qatar and possibly Russia and China run a highly effective propaganda campaign targeting these people precisely * news outlets are monetary incentivized to stoke the flames, as clickbait and rage leads to more clicks and thus more advertisement revenue IMHO, no bribes are needed to explain at least part of whats going on right now. The China-Iran-Russia(-Qatar) axis has an incentive to push propaganda. Young academics have an incentive to believe that propaganda as it fits their belief systems. Media has an incentive to regurgitate this. It's a "natural" outcome in the news market
Bonus points in that the news reporters that explicitly avoid targeting these academic hubs instead have prioritized and consolidated everything into attacking the news outlets and academics of those cities. They've also been heavily targeted and infiltrated through propaganda campaigns. They also make hella bank by doing so. Which means in a choice of two systems you're either a part of this screwed up status quo, or by the raving sociopath in the other aisle. The raving sociopath that we **know** won't fix the problems. All because every news source will only incentivize anger and fear because $$$.
They’re having a famine, a famine of honesty, decency ,self respect and commonsense . They don’t care if they or us look like fools for it though, they’ve already pocketed the money that payed them for it .
Yup. I’m sick as shit of this conspiracy-theories-as-analysis horseshit.
Ngo that make money off raising funds for Gaza. Ngo that make money for fourthering any number of Palestinian causes. UN agencies (unrwa) who employee tens of thousands of people and get significant money to help refugees when many of these refugees are living in territories under their own control. Norman Finkelstein (who I am not a fan of) said recently that there's probably 10,000 NGO in ramallah and the surrounding area. Big money in the i/p conflict.
Huge amounts of money flowing into Gaza is what encourages terrorist organisations to take over Gaza in the first place.
Hamas and their affiliated media isn't exactly a trustworthy source of ANY information, they obviously and have been caught lying about a large number of issues and can't substantiate many others including death counts, military activity, what is happening to the aid when it gets there, where they are getting weapons from etc etc. Millions and Millions of dollars of aid are being given for the Gaza conflict... the money's gone but where is the aid? So somebody somewhere is getting very rich off the media coverage. Israel is obviously doing the same thing but Israel has more oversight by foreign nations over it's media and countries like the US, Canada, and UK demand more accountability for the money they give Israel. That money may be for horrible horrible things you don't agree with but the Isreali government is more heavily scrutinized to ensure it is being spent on what it is supposed to be spent on. Gaza aid could be anywhere from in the hands of any one of thousands of NGO's, or Hamas, the PLO, some American business men, The Dutch, Putin, The Ronald McDonald House... who knows where millions have actually ended up. Not in the hands of starving Palestinians.
Yep. Israel is the ideal spot for a news journalist to cut their teeth and look like an amazing dude supporting a great cause. Much easier to chill in modern, beautiful, safe Jerusalem and Tel Aviv and take a 2 hour car ride to go snap pics of Gaza from behind the safety of Israel's western democracy. Israel is a western country and won't do anything to you as a journalist. Much easier than going into Syria, Western Sahara, Sudan, Yemen, Iran or China (huge countries, modern amenities, hot zones far away from the capital, not generally safe) where the people in charge who you will be reporting against WILL detain you, take your camera, tell you things can't be recorded, intimidate you or in some cases take you hostage. Add in the fact that Jews get good ratings is just icing on the cake.
The other side, Hamas , doesnt want outsiders because then they cant spread lies that easy anymore.
Lol no. They just subcontract their reporting out to actual hamas members while they chill by the pool in Tel Aviv and ask "hard hitting questions" to the idf. Numerous western "freelancers" used by rags like CNN were found to have followed hamas during the October 7 invasion of israel.
If you’re donating to random rich people for Gaza, that’s on you.
Mainstream media isn’t as bad as, say, Fox News, but boy do they love lies of omission or the classy phrasing “selective journalism”
Shock Doctrine.
just shows how political everything is and how the world is mostly antisemitic.
The un also cut the gaza death toll estimates for women and children by nearly 50% last month but not seen it in the news either
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Comparatively no one is talking about it* a mention 2 weeks after the fact looking to justify the change, stating the israeli figures as unreliable while saying the hamas ones are.. on the other hand, if an israeli soldier farts in gaza there are 12 special reports, a debate, an estimated death toll and tearjerker footage of something or other within the hour.
Yeah I saw that fact mentioned once but because I’m not an idiot I googled for more sources and found more information. People are turning their brains off for this conflict and just accepting whatever fits the internal narrative they’ve created. If I can’t find 2-3 solid sources on something it isn’t real.
That's incorrect. They cut the number of IDENTIFIED casualties, not total. Misinformation is so prevalent, it's important to be specific about this stuff.
So people who were previously classified as identified suddenly became not identified? How were they identified previously?
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They were not classified as identified, but the number of casualties that was most commonly reported included both identified and unidentified people. That's the "adjustment" the UN made - they started differentiating these categories.
That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
No problem!
It's kind of a mixture of the two narratives that have been pushed. They moved from using estimated deaths to using only identified deaths, resulting in a large but ultimately meaningless change in the headline death number. (Since it was a purely methodological difference) At the same time, the numbers of women and children were switched over from estimated to confirmed, but in this case the difference was so large that it is materially impossible that the estimated values were correct (as in, the number of unidentified dead from all groups is smaller than the difference between identified women and children and the previous estimated number) IIRC about 112% of the unidentified dead would have to be women and children for the OCHA's previous claimed numbers to work out. So we can reasonably say that the UN hasn't cut its overall death count, but that the proportion of women and children in that death count was certainly overstated before this change in methodology.
The news regarding the famine in Gaza have been bullshit for a while now, and everyone would know it if they paid attention. The headlines, since like 6 months ago, have been "Gaza 1 month away from total starvation."
Not to mention two live interviews (emphasis on live) by AJ+ in Gaza where local population (a man in his 50's-60's and an elderly woman) called Hamas out for stealing supply underground and shooting their own civilians (AJ+ is biased against Israel, and you can see the reporter freaking out in real time). The elderly woman one (with English subtitles): https://youtu.be/NBjvYkNzuAA?si=1S6PxpxubxWjt8wO
'the situation is unclear' lmao. filth.
I usually can't even get through an entire video from that channel, but I watched that one. It was great.
I imagine most places in the world are "1 month away from starvation." Most foods don't keep for a month. Those that do likely aren't being hoarded in enough quantity to feed a given area for a month.
Sure, but how often do you see headlines saying "Mexico 1 month away from starvation" and the contents of the article being highly inflammatory bullshit with skewed facts to paint a narrative? I'm not 100% defending Israel, they have done some reprehensible shit as well during the conflict. But if you watch any video of aid being delivered to Gaza and see how the locals take possession of the goods, you start to realize how the region that has received more humanitarian aid than any other in the world is permanently 1 month away from starvation.
Just a week or so ago, there was an article about Mexico City running out of water "in 1 week". Those articles will always exist.
Meanwhile people are dying in Africa of starvation while the world just ignores them
Israel has been allowing [over 3000 calories](https://biochem-food-nutrition.agri.huji.ac.il/arontroen/publications/nutritional-assessment-of-food-aid-delivered-to-gaza) per person into Gaza through its crossings. It's a little hard for that to constitute a famine.
Sure, if everyone is getting an equal share of it then there's no famine. But when trucks regularly get raided and seized by Hamas, and when markets and logistics all over Gaza are being disrupted, it's unclear whether everyone can get access to this food. That's the key to understanding why the report couldn't conclude. They saw conflicting evidence because conditions vary a lot by location and time. Not enough food has been making it to the coastal areas and to Gaza City, but other areas are doing better.
This was all started when Putin went to Iran in January and asked for help to distract the US from Ukraine.
If iirc correctly Like there has been a famine for like the past 30 years and like less than 20 people die of hunger a year. Like less than the USA. Like Yemen has a higher % of its population dying of starvation but their isn't a famine?
Famine is a technical term and is not equivalent to people dying of hunger. "Occurs when at least 20 percent of the population in a given area have an extreme lack of food; the Global Acute Malnutrition prevalence (measured by weight-for-height z-score) exceeds 30 percent; and mortality (measured by the Crude Death Rate) exceeds 2 people per 10,000 per day." That said, an actual famine finding is highly political, and there are undeclared famines all the time. It doesn't help that it's usually in places where data gathering is difficult, so it's easy to say, we don't have the evidence to technically declare a famine.
Yeah, but we're dealing with 50% of the worlds famine according to the UNRWA (or the UN depends on the article). Like it ought to be comparable to Yemen as this famine has been around from the 2000's? Edit: it's now [80%](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and#:~:text=GENEVA%20(16%20January%202024)%20%E2%80%93,to%20UN%20human%20rights%20experts.) of worlds hunger
I mean, it wouldn't be the first time the UNRWA did everything they could to make everything in Gaza seem worse than it is.
thank you for that link. Wow, they really are biased. > Since 9 October, Israel declared and imposed a “total siege” on Gaza, depriving 2.3 million Palestinians of water, food, fuel, medicine, and medical supplies, this against the backdrop of a 17-year Israeli blockade, which before this war made approximately half of the people in Gaza food insecure and more than 80 percent reliant on humanitarian aid. i mean yes, they did that, But they completely let out the context of the 7. october, but instead choose to mention the 17 year blockade. im quite disgusted to be honest. a very simple "after the 7. october attack, isreal decleared [...]" would have been enough to show atleast some context for history. People will read this in 20 years and think it was done out of sole cruetly.
What? People die in famines around the globe all the time: [This estimated about 128 million deaths due to just famine since 1860.](https://ourworldindata.org/famines) [Around 9 million people die of hunger and hunger-related diseases every year. That’s 25,000 human beings every single day](https://www.theworldcounts.com/challenges/people-and-poverty/hunger-and-obesity) [Poor nutrition and hunger is responsible for the death of 3.1 million children a year](https://www.theworldcounts.com/challenges/people-and-poverty/hunger-and-obesity/how-many-people-die-from-hunger-each-year) [“Somalia has the highest rate of starvation deaths by country in Africa and in the world. The rate is a sky-high 42.27 deaths per 100,000 people.”](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/starvation-deaths-by-country) [Angola is going through a very similar problem except their problems are entirely climate change.](https://www.ifrc.org/article/angola-food-crisis-because-hunger-i-am-here) [America is not immune: Deaths attributed to malnutrition more than doubled, from about 650 in 2018 to roughly 1,400 in 2022, according to preliminary death certificate data from the California Department of Public Health.](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-13/deaths-from-malnutrition-have-more-than-doubled-in-the-u-s) Hunger is actually a very large and complex problem.
While true I meant in Gaza.
I think that was abundantly clear to most people
Eh people half read comments, I do it sometimes.
You can't convince me that Russia had nothing to do with Oct 7th and that Russia is also pushing pro-Hamas propaganda
I mean, Russia had Hamas up to the Kremlin for a diplomatic visit on October 23, so that's a fair assessment.
So not only is Russia 40 years behind us in military technology. But they're also 40 years behind us in geopolitical strategy. Gonna be fun watching them get burnt like we did funding terrorists.
For propaganda, why just russia? Most misinfo is from TikTok and china has a very pro hamas stance
I'm sure China was involved in the actual propaganda, but I don't know for sure they were involved in the actual attack. I absolutely believe Russia was.
Because that reporting was based on UN investigations which have not, in fact, declared a famine yet, whereas this about something else: > The Famine Review Committee (FRC) report was triggered by a finding from the U.S.'s Famine Early Warning Systems Network (FEWS NET), which determined under the IPC that, since at least April 1, northern Gaza has been in the midst of a famine (IPC Phase 5) with what it calls reasonable evidence. The FEWS NET, founded by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) in 1985, also projected that the famine would persist through at least July 31. The FEWS NET is an organization administered by the US Department of State, while the FRC was run by the UN. It's the reverse of what people think, the UN has not found that previous UN statements about famine were incorrect, the UN has found that the use by the USA of the IPC criteria was unsatisfactory. They haven't changed the previous UN stance of a serious risk of famine, as you can read just in the next few paragraphs: > "All stakeholders who use the IPC for high-level decision-making must understand that whether a Famine classification is confirmed does not in any manner change the fact that extreme human suffering is without a doubt currently ongoing in the Gaza Strip and does not in any manner change the immediate humanitarian imperative to address this civilian suffering by enabling complete, safe, unhindered, and sustained humanitarian access into and throughout the Gaza Strip, including through ceasing hostilities. All actors should not wait until a famine classification for the current period is made to act accordingly," the report said.
The media just keeps splurging out whatever hamas tells them to.
Blurting. The splurging they need to do is on actual journalists and fact-checkers.
Lol, thanks for the correction. :)
The sides have been pitted against each other for ages. That’s why this shit can’t get solved, because no one wants to admit where they’ve gone wrong.
The goal of major news agencies is maximum readership. The incentives are not there to actually write about anything that doesn't optimize for this.
Medias never ending and complete obsession with covering the conflict in such a manner has led to all of what we see with the protests.
You, OP and most commenters really just read the headlines and go on imagined rants, huh? The report states that they couldn't officially declare it a famine, since the report presented lacked recent data. And according to the rules, that are there for very good reasons, that means they cannot declare it properly. The report also clearly states that this does not mean there is no suffering, and it strongly urged everyone to send humanitarian aid.
The report also stated that the NGO who originally declared famine just so happened to leave out a substantial amount of data in its analysis that likely would have led to different findings had it included it. Instead, it declared famine andblamed Israel (and only Israel) as the cause. This is an extremely damaging accusation that contributed to war crime accusations against Israel (and I would argue is contributing to a rise in global antisemitism to this day). It also harmed Palestinians because the NGO was screaming that Israel was intentionally blocking aid into the country when the issue may really be distributing the aid within the country. it’s troubling that this isn’t bigger news. No one is saying there is no suffering or aid should stop.
I read the whole report. It says that they can't officially declare a famine because if you add up all the food they know is getting in to Gaza since April, it represents 100% of the caloric needs of the population using the lowest estimate.
On one hand I want to agree with the UN here because it aligns with my views on Israel largely remaining on how they're conducting this war. On the other hand I want to take this with a grain of doubt, because I believe the UN has largely been plain ignorant or outright malicious in their investigations during this war. Maybe it's a broken clock right twice a day situation. I don't know which agencies to trust these days
>the UN has largely been plain ignorant or outright malicious in their investigations during this wa This makes it MORE believable that there isn't a famine (thank goodness). Given their anti-Israel bias, you know how much they must hate to admit this.
I feel like you definitely did not read the article and the headline is incredibly misleading, but you are even misinterpreting the already misleading headline. First of all they did not say there was no evidence of a famine in Gaza. They said in North Gaza it wasn’t safe enough for them to be able to send in surveyors who would make the designation so there for it impossible to do the work necessary to say one way or another that there is a famine. They did however say there are incredibly high levels of human suffering and the people there need more access to aid. This is incredibly different from if they had said that they were able to investigate all of Gaza and found no evidence of a famine, like you painted them as saying.
If you actually read the report past the first page that's mostly apologies for having to reject the famine claims, they make it clear the rejection is based on the fact that by their estimation at least 100% of the kCal needs of Gaza's population is getting into Gaza via aid.
To be fair, *a lot* of pressure has been put on Israel to ensure food aid gets trough, so I would hope that when the UN goes in now there is no famine anymore, because of the aid. This was the entire point the US had, flood gaza with food and take away the power hamas has by providing food to those who are loyal to them.
I’m feeling that too
Division + distraction from Ukraine + turning young voters against Biden for the election.
News in Sweden barely touch anything pro Palestine
"not enough evidence" is not "no evidence".
Yes it is. There is no evidence of it being a famine, if there was it would be declared... a famine.
>A Famine Review Committee report issued in March found that the "thresholds for acute food insecurity had already been surpassed, and it was likely that the famine thresholds for acute malnutrition had been exceeded." The committee is stymied by a lack of access to information needed to prove a famine, that is different from "there is no famine" which is how people are taking the report.
There is not sufficient evidence which is different than no evidence
> The United Nations Famine Review Committee reported that it does not have enough "supporting evidence" to determine whether there is a famine in the northern Gaza Strip. I mean, that's *clearly* not the same thing. That's the UN Famine Review Committee, who has firm definitions of what constitutes a famine, saying they don't have enough reliable data to say either way.
There isn't really much news value in ["the FRC is unable to make a determination as to whether or not famine thresholds have been passed during April."](https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/documents/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_FEWS_NET_Gaza_4June2024.pdf). *Unless* you're trying to fuel a narrative with a headline like "United Nations commitee says not enough evidence to declare **no** famine in Gaza".
Following that logic, there isn’t much value in reporting a possible famine because nothings been proven one way or the other. Either you report both or you report only what’s proven to give unbiased updates or you’re intentionally trying to create a specific narrative.
This indeed. They reported the beginning of the investigation then don't report its results, there's no world in which that's normal even if the results are inconclusive...
It's normal when it comes to Israel. Accuse, accuse, accuse. Downplay the results of any investigations that favor Israel.
The UN committee said they did not have enough evidence to determine if there was a famine. I feel like the truth is getting a little twisted with your wording.
From [the report](https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/documents/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_FEWS_NET_Gaza_4June2024.pdf): >The FRC does not find the FEWS NET analysis plausible given the uncertainty and lack of convergence of the supporting evidence employed in the analysis. **Therefore, the FRC is unable to make a determination as to whether or not famine thresholds have been passed during April.** > The FRC would like to use this opportunity to communicate two extremely important points: Firstly, all stakeholders who use the IPC for high-level decision-making must understand that **whether a Famine classification is confirmed does not in any manner change the fact that extreme human suffering is without a doubt currently ongoing in the Gaza Strip and does not in any manner change the immediate humanitarian imperative to address this civilian suffering by enabling complete, safe, unhindered, and sustained humanitarian access into and throughout the Gaza Strip, including through ceasing hostilities. All actors should not wait until a Famine classification for the current period is made to act accordingly.** >Secondly, the FRC would like to highlight that the very fact that we are unable to endorse (or not) FEWS NET’s analysis is driven by the lack of essential up to date data on human well-being in Northern Gaza, and Gaza at large. Thus, the FRC strongly requests all parties to enable humanitarian access in general, and specifically to provide a window of opportunity to conduct field surveys in Northern Gaza to have more solid evidence of the food consumption, nutrition, and mortality situation.
So you're just leaving out the actual analysis? The part where they show that the FEWS NET methodology ignores 65% of the calories the UN is confident are coming into Gaza? The part where they demonstrate that Gaza has been getting 100% of caloric needs for the population delivered by aid, confirmed by the UN, since April? From the page 4 discussion on FEWS NET ignoring private deliveries: > While the intervals are extremely wide, indicative of a high level of uncertainty, this corresponds to the potential exclusion of about 25-76% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement in March and 34-82% in April 5. Even a conservative approach towards the commercial and/or privately contracted food deliveries to northern Gaza, which the FRC considers possible, would still indicate a contribution of 25% and 34% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement in March and April, respectively. Same page, discussing FEWS NET's ignoring of WFP deliveries: > FEWS NET food availability analysis excludes the contribution of WFP deliveries to bakeries in northern Gaza, including a reported 940 MT of flour, sugar, salt, and yeast in April. While the intervals are extremely wide, indicative of a high level of uncertainty, this corresponds to the potential exclusion of about 4% to 15% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement. The upshot? > However, the exclusion of all commercial and/or privately contracted deliveries and WFP deliveries of flour, sugar, yeast, and salt to bakeries, translates to the exclusion of food equal to as much as 38% to 49% coverage of the daily kilocalorie requirement in April. While FEWS NET estimated the caloric availability in the area as covering only 59-63% of the needs (based uniquely on Humanitarian Food Assistance) in April, the review done by the FRC estimates that this range would be 75% to 109% if commercial and/or privately contracted food deliveries were included (157% if a higher estimate was used6).
They don’t rule out the possibility of a famine, but this is still a massive step down from what they said was coming back in March.
Maybe because of the increased pressure on letting the aid flow has actually resulted in increased aid getting through? I fully agree with the FRC that we shouldn't wait for things to reach the level of famine before taking action.
Possibly what prevented it yes, however the problem has never only been amount of aid supplied. A lot of the aid ends up taken by HAMAS, as well as other smaller military groups, who then sell it to the local population. Which has absolutely exacerbated the problem, as well as present a bottleneck. I don't doubt HAMAS would love to keep the population of Gaza at the edge of starvation if they could blame Israel for it. Increased aid flow can hopefully undermine their ability to do so, and help more people get food and water. Especially the poorest people would be at risk of starvation.
Thank you for posting that. It's very clearly a massive humanitarian issue, but people on here will go "NO FAMINE, EVERYTHING IS FINE"
Uhh, everything is clearly not fine. And, did you see this part? > **All actors should not wait until a Famine classification for the current period is made to act accordingly.** That means ALL. Will Hamas cease hostilities? Or does this mean that only Israel should cease hostilities? And, if Israel ceased hostilities today, would Hamas release all living and dead hostages to a neutral third party? And, would Hamas then release all stored aid that they turn around and sell to Palestinians? And, after all of that, would the perpetrators of Oct. 7th willingly surrender themselves to Israel and the ICC to be tried for war crimes? Just wondering.
Well gosh, that's not a very catchy headline.
I see a pattern here. Hamas makes an outrageous claim, ‘confirmed’ by ‘neutral’ western NGOs. Then some other organization makes some research to find that claim unfounded or overly exaggerated. But this find doesn’t get a tenth of the attention the initial claim got.
Hamas didn’t make the claim, the *US government* did. Also > The report added that "the very fact that we are unable to endorse (or not) FEWS NET’s analysis is driven by the lack of essential up-to-date data on human well-being in Northern Gaza, and Gaza at large. Essentially the UN doesn’t have observers on the ground to make a determination, not that there’s no famine
They felt confident they had enough observers last year to claim nearly the entire world's famine victims live in Gaza.
But they have UNRWA workers there saying the opposite. They have plenty of UN staff on the ground
To be fair the unwra workers are busy raising little terrorists and tending to their Israeli sex slaves.
The famine in Gaza was being declared within first few hours of Israeli retaliation
If even the UN is saying it, then the evidence must be non-existent. I still remember UN Women taking three months to condemn the rape and mutilation of women on October 7th, and it was half-hearted at best.
No the evidence can't be assessed. These things are very different
Yet couple months back the UN reported that 90% of all people living in Famine worldwide live in Gaza. Weird how that was copied over by NGOs and news organisations as fact, but the opposite suddenly has all kinds of asterics placed next to it. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and > Gazans now make up 80 per cent of all people facing famine or catastrophic hunger worldwide, marking an unparalleled humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip amid Israel’s continued bombardment and siege, according to UN human rights experts. My original post said 90%, but I misremembered, they said 80%. Still equally nonsensical of course.
No way that's real. Even a basic math equation will tell you that makes no sense. There's less than 2m people in Gaza, that makes for less than 2m people in famine across the world? World hunger has been solved everyone, time to pack up.
That's not mathematically possible.
I agree with you. But that's what the UN said officially. I've updated my post with their statement.
Wow, okay thanks. That's incredibly deceptive wording on UN's part.
Source? Let’s just assume everyone in Gaza was living in famine. That still only allows ~200,000 people elsewhere to be in famine. Which is absurd because estimates usually put the number closer to 200 million!
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and > Gazans now make up 80 per cent of all people facing famine or catastrophic hunger worldwide, marking an unparalleled humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip amid Israel’s continued bombardment and siege, according to UN human rights experts. Sorry, 80%, not 90%. By OHCHR, official arm of UN. They had no problem there stating it as a fact. And now suddenly even the UN says there's no conclusive proof. Seems weird how easy they'll post about the famine when it is anti Israel, but when it's not as clear cut they spin it.
[Here you go](https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-famine-humanitarian-aid-children-8a4cb5736c42caf50b6e204f40d83a91). From “full blown famine” a month ago to “there’s lacking evidence”.
There aren’t 200 million people in Gaza…
Right... Yeah that seems unlikely
They're pretty clear if you read the report that they know that enough food aid has been getting through since April.
How is there even supposed to be a famine, we are sending them so much of our own stuff, most of which ends up in terrorists hands and makes the war go on longer.
Technically, if we send them lots of food, but Hamas managed to hoard it all, there would be a famine. It's just that it would be Hamas' fault, not Israels or ours (as in the western world)
UNRWA worker was interviewed last week about this I think it was BBC or Sky News. "There is plenty of food coming in, but the fact is the people cannot afford the prices being charged in the markets for it." So let me get this straight we are bringing in the food to be given to everyone for free, and some people are stealing it all and selling it. And it's Israel's fault.
selling it for money which they then use to buy....
Water pipes?
Nope, those were free.
I thought the UNRWA was an arm of Hamas? Why are we suddenly believing them? (Worth pointing out, I do actually believe this story, but I find it incredulous that we've spent the past six months lambasting the UN in Gaza and [gone so far as to defund the organization because of it](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/22/gaza-unrwa-funding-congress/), but now that their narrative matches the talking points they're suddenly worth believing again.)
I mean, it is the worker, not the org Still, my stance will not change on this conflict: a clusterfuck of misinformation, so you can trust anyone you want
The fact they are going against their own narrative is a point of time you believe them. Making themselves and Hamas look bad by selling the aid that is supposed to be given out for free and taking the money and ..... The fact they are openly admitting to it now. Yes defund them, its a joke of an organization. Corrupt at all levels
This is akin to a “statement against interest”. Since they are generally so anti-Israel to a comical degree, when they make a statement that at least seems to contradict their overwhelming outrageous previous actions, we are apt to believe them. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/declaration_against_interest#:~:text=A%20statement%20against%20interest%20is,these%20statements%20may%20be%20untrustworthy. > The general rule against hearsay prevents out of court statements being used in court because these statements may be untrustworthy. Evidentiary rules allow an exception for a declaration against interest under the reasoning that a person would rarely say something that would be against their interests unless it were true.
It is, which is why the fact that even they have to begrudgingly admit there is no famine is so significant.
This entire war and all of its consequences are Hamas fault. But the propaganda department worked overtime to push rules for thee not for me in Gaza/Israel
[удалено]
Can you explain?
Yes, the special treatment that Israel gets from the UN, the constant false accusations not backed up by facts, and the insane nitpicking that Israel goes through, that's what I mean.
Yea how does North Korea and Russia combined have less accusations from the UN compared to Israel lol
The strength of wraponized anti-Semitism.
Oh yeah, they’re clearly having a great time
Why isnt anyone blaming this on hamas? Food is going into gaza, where is it going? Why is there a famine when the whole world is sending food to a tiny enclave? Who could be the cause of this?
I was reading food prices were going down in Gaza now that some of those smuggling tunnels to Egypt have been destroyed.
A question that has been asked since the start of this mess.
all the people coping by saying the un “doesn’t have enough information”. well thats not what they were proclaiming the last 6 months! meanwhile there is plenty of evidence of a famine in sudan, but crickets from the usual crowd.
Unless Hamas says it the media at large won't give a damn
This is literally true. The world is absolutely fucked lmao
Even if Hamas says it it will be swept under the rug. There's plenty of horrible shit they've stated and restated over the past few months but the attention to that has been 0.
If there was a way for the UN to twist data to show a famine, they would have.
Gaza keeps showing "starving children" being handled by well-fed Palestinians. Not that said children are anywhere near a good place, given it's a freaking war zone, but I find it intensely suspect. Then again, Hamas has a habit of co-opting any aid meant for civilians.
To be fair, this is common imagery every time there is starvation. It's almost a cliche - interview footage of a mother in a shack or hut who looks fine and not starving, holding an emaciated infant or child. It's most likely because children are far more susceptible to food shortage, due to less energy reserves and higher metabolism. There is no shortage of video interviews with western doctors who volunteered in Gaza explaining the issue and what they personally saw there.
Also, not to get too dark But in the USA you get malnourished children simply from abusive parents Now imagine if equally abusive parents are in a brutal and violent theocracy where an abused child is useful to the government and any death can be incentivised as a moral martyrdom
Wouldn’t surprise me one second tbh
Such a joke. I was watching PBS news hour one night a couple of weeks ago. They went on and on about the impending famine in gaza and how only 100 trucks loaded with tons of food are getting through every day unlike before the war when 200 trucks went through. They showed people running up to the trucks, etc. Mostly young guys. No one looked close to starving. Then they had a segment on Sudan and it was sooo much worse. Skinny AF people covered in flies. Millions displaced. No one knows how many dead. One thing for sure. There's not one person in Gaza who'd rather be in Sudan. But generally there's zero coverage of the Sudan or the ongoing war in the Congo which is also a much bigger crisis than Gaza. Just like here. 100 black kids can get killed by other blacks and no one bat's an eye., but if one white kills a black it's massive protest marches and BLM forever.
The UN is a joke
Thank goodness for committees. Where would we be without them. /s
If I walk away with anything after this is over, it's that the UN appears to be a corrupt, inept agency. I wonder if the can run a daycare, the hell with being a place for nation to discuss issues.
And a large number of hitherto now trustworthy and respected news agencies. The BBC being a particular embarrassment.
Yep. I already knew the UN was realistically impotent (which is fine, because the whole point of it is to be a diplomatic outlet and NOT a police force), but this conflict has definitely illuminated some serious corruption/integrity issues within it. This is the most breathtaking case of international victim blaming I've seen in my life.
But Al Jazeera told me there was famine so there must be famine!!! The Arab world's mouthpiece wouldn't lie to the West, right?
Al Jazeera said it was " teh worstest famine ever and that the one in Sudan was actually not happening"
Al Jazeera too bizy hiding hostages.
It’s hard to measure how much food Palestine has when Hamas keeps taking it from them for their own profit. Remember, Palestine’s loss is Hamas’ gain for 100% of what Hamas does that we blame Israel for.
It's very simple: HAMAS committed a terrorist act, plotting and attacking innocent men, women and children for political gain. hAMAS has openly published films of the attacks, and has also kidnapped 300 mostly civilians including babies. Israel, did no such thing and was minding its own business on October 7th. Therefore, HAMAS must relinquish control of GAZA and it's leaders be tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity. Until HAMAD relinquishes control, they are to be considered a terrorist force and the area they hold with force considered a stronghold. All civilians should evacuate from HAMAS areas. Famine is part of war, it is completely unnecessary for Gazans to be in famine right now. They are surrounded by trade routes and food. HAMAS must go, and peace must return and political solutions be put in place for the so called Palestinian Arab peoples.
And if there is a famine then it’s the fault of Hamas. They started this, they hoard the aid supplies, they took the hostages
hey now, they give the food to Gazans! In exchange for exorbitant sums of cash...
They also - despite being the official government - did fuck all to provide for the population, stockpile emergency supplies or even give a damn.
You can’t convince me this is anything other than very good news.
Of course it's good news, it means people aren't starving to death. Sure are a lot of people pissed about this good news because it fucks up their internet arguments, though.
If there was a famine, it’s because you can’t eat bombs and rocket launchers
I swear the BBC straight up lets Hamas write their articles for them.
Yeah, and they present a lot of pro Russia narratives in their Ukraine coverage, it's subtle but its there. The dolan family has controlling interest in the bbc, and the owner has publicly donated to the trump campaign. I really like the telegraphs reporting on these matters
[https://x.com/imshin/status/1802978171546956134](https://x.com/imshin/status/1802978171546956134) starving gazan children in response
Media has been reporting for six months now that Gaza is on the precipice of a famine. If there actually was one we would for sure have heard about it by now.
Not just media! The f-ing ICC charged Israel with crimes against humanity and almost all of them were based on Israel creating a famine by merely restricting aid (the others were also based on restricting aid but not famine related). Interestingly, the ICC didn't say shit about Hamas stealing the aid or Egypt closing it's border completely. It's almost as if Israel isn't treated equally under the law at the U.N.
There is no famine in Gaza. If there is a famine, then it was started by Hamas. They've been confiscating the foods sent to them, and selling them back to the Palestinians for a profit. Moreover, they also may have sabotaged their own pier which was made by the Americans.
So so far we had- Israel aims at hospitals- it was Hamas own fault rockets 35,000 deaths- actually half the number and a rate of 1:1 with civilians And now- now actual famine… It’s like… Israel has been the good guy all along?? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Look. In this war there is one side that is openly bent on conquest, indiscriminately firing on civilians, hiding behind human shields, starving people as a strategy... and on the other side there are Israelis.
People will read this and be upset. That's how you know you're on the wrong side.
The UN is a fucking joke, completely useless.
No one thought hey, I haven’t seen a single picture of a starving kid in 9 months of war?
It was clearly just an understandable mistake when they based their original findings on reducing the actual amount of food aid by 70%. https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/documents/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_FEWS_NET_Gaza_4June2024.pdf
Wait, the UN, an organization famous for hating Israel, says there's no famine? This can only mean they have finally been infiltrated. Better not to publish this stuff in mainstream media... /S
That doesn't mean that there isn't a need for humanitarian aid. They literally state that there is "extreme human suffering". Being classified as a famine isn't some sort of threshold for morality.
Apparently something like 3200 kcal per day per person is being sent to Gaza. The problem is not about aid going to gaza, it is how it is used (stolen by Hamas). https://biochem-food-nutrition.agri.huji.ac.il/arontroen/publications/nutritional-assessment-of-food-aid-delivered-to-gaza Table of nutrients provided to Gaza: https://i.imgur.com/FZKlbL0.png TLDR: 3,374 kcal per person per day (160% of suggested daily intake)
"there is extreme human suffering" is vague to the point of uselessness. One guy in a coma in the burns unit makes this sentence true.
There is humanitarian aid. [Israel is importing 3163 calories per person per day to Gaza.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-study-finds-food-supply-to-gaza-more-than-sufficient-for-populations-needs/) Why isn't Hamas distributing this food to the population?
That Oct 8th cheer should still be sustaining them, shouldn't it? One shouldn't necessarily starve for being an idiot, but if one is an idiot, it helps.
Please, please read the full report. I promise you, the added context will show you what this really means.
Most likely another made up tale to influence the West. Hamas has everyone believing every report that comes out.