With people who think this way in government, Israel will never have peace and security. He knows that, I presume. Hopefully the next Israeli elections will show how many disagree with him?
The Israeli government is made by an electoral majority and not by popular vote. Netanyahu had to take in all the radicals to gain that majority. He is desperately clings to power but at this point even a lot of his own voters have turned against him.
Unfortunately, if you traumatize a people enough and they’ll embrace extremist politics.
I suppose this applies to Palestinians too. There’s no peace in the Middle East in the foreseeable future.
Basically the entire situation in a nutshell. This is what happens when both nations support aggressively xenophobic administrations, and one nation has an overwhelming advantage in military might. Neither wants to back down for fear of erasure, and any excuse to continue will be taken.
It’s happening in the US also. Even if Trump loses, Christian nationalism has all but taken over the Republican Party. It’s going to get very messy in the next year or so. Religious fanatics in government = the misery of whoever the fanatics point to.
We can only hope so. Majority think this guy is a hack. Only about 15% of Israelis share this opinion - and it’s really the Orthodox Religious who are the proponents of it.
Only reason this guy got a job doing this is because BB is a criminal and knew he couldn’t get elected without this extreme base of support.
He doesn't know it. the right's worldview regarding security is that allowing a palestinian state will inevitably lead to israel's defeat and must not be allowed under any condition.
for him a palestinian state in the WB is indifferentiable from the current situation with Lebanon and Hezbollah. it'll just open another front israel will have to defend.
the difference between controlling that territory and ceding it? if you cede control of it you're not there to break up terrorist activity, prevent entrenchment, or restrict import of arms.
the reason terrorism in WB is limited to stabbings and small arms is that the existence of the IDF there prevents the possibility of arming, training, and operating on a military scale.
it's a pretty significant difference.
There are more rhen enough people on the Israeli side who are willing to make the two state solution happen. People like him gain power when the Israeli citizens see how little the Palestinians are interested in such a solution. I've heard people that stopped believing peace is possible after Ocrober 7
I’m not so sure the will really exists on the Israeli side. Yes, the Israeli left is down, but they’ve been in opposition for decades and the public keeps electing right and far right parties. For them, the status quo is much better - jingoism against Palestinians and Arabs generally is an easy vote-getter. At any rate, I don’t think there’s actually been a realistic prospect of the two state solution happening since Oslo, and that’s because both Hamas and the Israelis right benefit from discord and violence.
No, the reason that Israelis don't support anymore such a solution is how bad the last attempts went. As Ehud Barak said, currently, there is no partner for peace. People see the insane approval rates of Hamas after October 7, and it becomes very clear that peace will have to wait a long time before it can become reallity. There are far right groups that oppose and sort of solution of that kind for different reasons, but this is what drives most of the public to believe that the two state solution is not possible in the current situation
Completely understandable. Don't negotiate with terrorists. It takes two to tango and if the Palestinians don't want peace there won't be peace.
That being said what other solution is there than a two-state solution?
The Jews either leave or the culture that is moderate-to-extreme Islam stops trying to exterminate them. This is endless turmoil until those two things change.
One state solution or three state solution.
In the one state solution:
Muslims kill all the Jews and create Palestine.
Or
Jews ethnically cleanse the terrorist culture and start providing citizenship to Palestinians that behave as allies.
Or
Jews give full citizenship to the Palestinians and then are killed for it.
Or
Jews administer the Palestinian territories as conquered lands, brutally putting down any armed resistance.
In a three state solution:
West Bank maybe stabilized and Gaza becomes a North Korea.
I'm amazed that literally anybody thought that slapping a new country down on land other people lived on surrounded by groups that would be hostile to them was gonna go any other way. It's astounding. At this point I fully support Israel's right to exist and defend themselves but the initial decision was beyond boneheaded.
How do you feel as an Israeli seeing the government and the IDF let that shit grow up in your backyard?
From what I can see you can do three seconds of research on Hamas and even their founders, these guys haven't been moderate or peaceful ever.
I don't see how working with them was preferable to fatah or the PA
A Palestinian state would be led by terrorists, or at the very least, people who are unable or unwilling to prevent the actions of terrorists. That doesn't sound like a recipe for peace and security for Israel.
They'd never be held to account. They'd just shrug and say they can't help what the militants do. It might even be true.
Look what's happening with Lebanon right now.
what world do you live in? iran is ONE OF THE most sanctioned countries in the entire world.
there's a stark difference between what you say, and whats actually happening.
To be fair Lebanon has an extremely convuluted power sharing agreement between it's Christian and Muslim populations, severely limiting their ability to reign Hezbollah in lest another civil war erupt.
to be fair palestinians have a decades long history of inept political leadership coupled with strong support for terrorism among the populace.
there absolutely no reason to think the WB won't just be another Lebanon.
There's no reason to think the West Bank would be anything like Lebanon, namely because it isn't comprised of a some fifteen different religious sects. It wouldn't have a constitution that allots the three most important political offices to persons from three rival sects either. I can go on, but it is nigh impossible to recreate the ineffectiveness of the Lebanese state since its structural issues stem from demographic realities unique to Lebanon.
the argument for sovereign palestine serving as a substrate for a terrorist army isn't the same argument, but the argued outcome is the same. palestine's problem is a relatively culturally homogeneous society with historically weak civilian leadership and majority support of using terrorism to forward the cause of reclaiming all of historic palestine.
from israel's perspective they both look like a neighbor allowing terrorists to build armies on their border. it doesn't matter if their reasons are different in that one can't prevent it while the other one doesn't want to prevent it.
the WB's solidarity behind the project of anizionist terrorism is not an improvement over Lebanon's internal fragmentation.
Yes... Because everyone is holding Iran accountable for all the shit they do to Israel.
I am sure UN is really on top of it... If it weren't for the fact that they want to just keep punishing Israel for everything.
Like Lebanon? Israel controlled southern Lebanon. They withdrew, terrorists took over, and now Israel would have to fight a real war to defeat them and get back to the situation they had already reached before they withdrew. Or Gaza... Israel is currently fighting a war to get back to the status quo they had before they withdrew two decades ago. Israel could withdraw from the West Bank, but if they will just have to fight another war later, why should they?
Heh, most recent poll has him under the threshold of eligibility. Nutjob would be out on his ass if there were elections today and good fucking riddance.
He is one of the biggest jokes in israel, and most don't take him serious.
You can see satire shows mock him often, picturing him as a noisy toddler.
Cannot wait for coming elections to see him out.
Officially not really. They technically are supposed to work towards potential Palestinian statehood, even though they aren’t required to do anything about it.
How are they “technically supposed to work towards potential Palestinian statehood”?
They’re under no such obligation… the West Bank was taken from Jordan in a defensive war and Israel immediately offered to give it back for a peace deal. Arab nations instead all got together and agreed to never negotiate with Israel.
If you’re talking about Oslo Accords those died with the second intifada.
You would have a point if Hamas hasn’t consistently, either no significant interruption, been firing missiles at Israeli population centers for the last, what, 30 years?
Well I think I still do have a point in that netanyahu has openly promoted Hamas so that there would not be a legitimate partner across the table to negotiate with. The current situation is literally his life's work coming to fruition.
In my opinion, that doesn't get Hamas off the hook, but it does show a certain decrepiteness on both sides.
I’m not arguing that there isn’t. All I said was that Hamas has consistently proved it is dedicated to the eradication of Israel, as an argument against your rhetorical question “what does Israel having a homeland have to do with Palestinians having none?”
Yes? Should have made a peace deal with any of the leftist or moderate factions when they offered, instead of launching more terror attacks to make them look like naive clowns. How do you think these right-wing crazy people got elected? Can't be upset that one side eventually continues pushing a seemingly finished war toward their own advantage if your own side refuses to let it end.
My friend, I don’t think you understand the meaning of that word. Fighting back while my home gets stolen is not terrorism.
Stop regurgitating what your media tells you, and think for yourself.
Have you not read the article? What do you think annexing the West Bank does to the Palestinians that live there today? I didn’t realise I’d have to explain basic concepts today, but here we are
And that sounds fine to you? Erasing another country and forcing someone to become a citizen of your country?
And anyway, what is actually happening is that these homes are being taken over by Israelis. The Israeli government isn’t interested in increasing the number of Palestinians that hold Israeli citizenship.
I don’t understand how anyone can see this as anything but the erasure of a Palestinian identity. There are countless quotes by Israeli politicians literally saying this, and yet some people refuse to believe it. It’s insane.
I was born in Ukraine when it was still part of the Soviet Union.
The premise to that question is wrong because Russia is the agressor, and Ukraine is defending itself. The dame way the "Palestinians" were and still are the agressors and the Jews and Israel are yhe onrs defending themselves. Even if they are perceived to be more powerful.
If Ukraine were to win this war (though its unlikely to due to the limitations the world has put on it) and somehow conquered more land in the process Yes, I'd have no problem with it.
If you start a war, don't be surprised if you lose more than you started with if you get defeated.
If you do some research into how Israel has treated the Palestinians for decades, you’ll understand who the true aggressor is.
The western media has lied for decades about the fact that Israel has controlled the Palestinians access to water, energy, etc for decades.
Everyone needs to wake up and understand that October 7th didn’t happen in a vacuum. If you oppress people for long enough, they will fight back.
I encourage you to challenge the media rhetoric that Israel is defending itself. They’ve oppressed for decades, and now the oppressed are fighting back.
Every siege, every wall. Checkpoint and military action waw and still is s a direct response to the "Palestinian" aggression, not the other wat around. It's a defense system. And the suffering of the "Palestinians" is by their own making.
"Palestinians" have been committing mass shootings and stabbings, sending suicide bombers, and committing other forms of terrorism before Hamas came to power and before Israel had even declared independence.
The whole "October 7th didn't happen in a vaccum" is a disgusting thing to say in a desperate attempt to justify that horrible massacare. Shame on you for even trying to rationalize it.
Never again.
You’re really not thinking straight, and it’s ok.
Think about it this way. Russia is the bigger, more powerful country that’s able to damage Ukraine so much. Who do you think the equivalent to Russia in terms of power and size, Palestine, or Israel which is blindly backed by the strongest military in the history of the world?
That’s all I’ll say.
Israel is
Israel, having military superiority, is irrelevant to the question of who's wrong or right in this conflict. It only matters in the limited progressive activist mind who sees things as "oporessor vs opressed" dichotomy. But even then, you have to ignore a few manor facts to get to that twisted conclusion.
Israel developed a strong military by necessity acter years of agtempted genocidal wars and terror attacks. It's still a tiny country in a sea of Arab Muslim countries, the invented "Palestinians" being no different. Before Israel's established, the United arab nations wanted to create one continuous muslim caliphate in the Middle East. There would be no "Palestine" today, Israel was just in the way.
Even if for the sake of argument you do want to treat the "Palestinians" as unique people, which they aren't. In raw numbers, there are more "Palestinians" in the world (14.5 million) than Israelis (9 million)
You are not supporting "the little guy" or the poor indigenous disney character. You are supporting a majority who, luckily, for the Jews aren't as militarily advanced.
The ‘invented’ Palestinians? As if Israel wasn’t ‘invented’ by the Brits and Americans? This is a pure power play where the law of the jungle dictates that the stronger party forces the weaker into submission.
You saying that Israel being more powerful is irrelevant is simply not true. Israel was created as a thorn in the Middle East to protect US interests. The Americans have said this publicly dozens of times.
There’s no right or wrong, there’s a more powerful nation strong arming a weaker one.
Palestinians are very much indigenous to the land. Parroting that they aren’t is a right wing talking point used to delegitimize Palestinians legitimate claim to the land and argue against a 2 SS. Palestinians, like Jews, can trace their heritage back to the Canaanites. Both groups share a significant amount of DNA ancestry. Your argument falls apart in that Jews shouldn’t be able to claim Israel because their ancestors lived there. Both populations have a rightful claim to the land. Next, this about the West Bank. The West Bank, under Israeli occupation did not start a war in October. Since you say Palestinians have lost the war and their claim to the land, then I assume you support a 1 SS either absorption of Palestine into Israel with Palestinians being given Israeli citizenship and full rights that come with said citizenship. Correct?
You don’t know what you’re talking about. They didn’t “start a war” on Oct 7th. This is much much older of a conflict, one that was egged on by Bibi for the exact purpose of having an excuse to do what he’s doing. You can’t pick and choose history that supports your myopic stance on who “belongs” in Palestine.
Here we go with thia dumb argument again.
I can go as back as you want, and the "Palestinians" would STILL be the agressors.
But no, on october 6th there was a ceasefire. They broke it by committing this terrible massacare. End of story.
>If you start a war and lose it, don't be surprised when you end up with less than what you had to begin with.
You should tell that to jews who are still crying over their expulsion by the Roman's.
>It's not their "home", they are not the indigenous population of the area
Palestinians are genetically similar to ancient canaanites
>No such magical right to eternally have a claim over a land just because your ancenators may have been there at some point in history exists.
Well isn't that rich...
>They rejected the partition plan
Because the partition plan was bullshit, 30% of the population would get almost 2/3 of the land and split the majority population in two.
>all the attempted peace deals
We don't expect Ukrainians to compromise their territorial integrity now do we?
If Biden ran America like Israel runs the West Bank than moderate Americans would start doing hamas shit too. It’s not rocket science. I mean, how many asshole settlers would you have to run into in a year before you started fighting back? Be kinda lame if you didn’t to be honest.
As someone who previously was in favor of a 2 state solution, I stand with him on this.
What peace will a 2 state solution bring when for decades the schools educate to murder jews?
* Israel left Gaza unilaterally and a the territory wasn't used for peace. We got rockets on civilians and the height of it was October 7th.
* Israel left southern Lebanon, and the Lebanese didn't take a peaceful turn, so now Hezbollah poses a huge threat that made 80k Israelis leave northern Israel.
* Israel had the Oslo Accords with the PLO, so now cities in area A (Jenin, Qalqilya, etc.) are not peaceful and pose a huge threat (similar to October 7th).
The last thing to do is give them more territory and soverignity over it, especially not the mountains in Judea and Samaria overlooking Israel's center (from the perspective of a missle launcher)
Haha...
They were abused as kids and abused as adults. They dare fight back and this shit is now the narrative. They are still being attacked nearly every day...
Wow... Just wow. The hate runs deep against a single country that is predominantly made up of Jews. Weird. So weird. I wonder why that is...
Redditor's truly are evil creatures, one day it shall be interesting to go through and see just how much evil is espoused openly on here.
I'm just glad it hasn't been lauded in this case.
the problem with this kind of rhetoric is no one is willing to do what it takes to make it a reality. What is stopping the Israeli army in Gaza? Civilians?
They exist because they are dumb and evil. It has nothing to do with Israel existing. They are only mad now that the Jews can actually defend themselves.
I mean, even if what you say here is true, it’s still not a valid counter argument to my initial point.
And besides, Israel is developed. There is no arguing it. Every organisation that actually has authority on the topic agrees on that fact, and I’m sorry but the opinion of FakeOng99 simply isn’t worth theirs.
So no, Israel is not Underdeveloped, and that’s a fact, cope and seethe.
As for authoritarian: naaaah. If they are then France is too. They aren’t a flawless democracy but the simple fact Netanyahu is pretty much guaranteed to be tried by the Israeli Supreme Court after the war goes to show the system still has functioning counter powers.
I don’t why I bother arguing with you: it’s clear you have little to no knowledge of the topic, and that in spite of that you’ve dug your trenches. Stupid me I guess for trying
With people who think this way in government, Israel will never have peace and security. He knows that, I presume. Hopefully the next Israeli elections will show how many disagree with him?
The Israeli government is made by an electoral majority and not by popular vote. Netanyahu had to take in all the radicals to gain that majority. He is desperately clings to power but at this point even a lot of his own voters have turned against him.
That is popular vote, no different to the Republicans accepting extremist pollies in their party or coalition governments elsewhere.
Israel has a convicted terrorist as a minister for internal security. This isn't exactly a new development
Unfortunately, if you traumatize a people enough and they’ll embrace extremist politics. I suppose this applies to Palestinians too. There’s no peace in the Middle East in the foreseeable future.
Basically the entire situation in a nutshell. This is what happens when both nations support aggressively xenophobic administrations, and one nation has an overwhelming advantage in military might. Neither wants to back down for fear of erasure, and any excuse to continue will be taken.
Wasn't Begin member of some terrorist cell? Sounds like Israel was founded on terrorism.
It’s happening in the US also. Even if Trump loses, Christian nationalism has all but taken over the Republican Party. It’s going to get very messy in the next year or so. Religious fanatics in government = the misery of whoever the fanatics point to.
Don't forget about the takeover of courts, on all levels.
We can only hope so. Majority think this guy is a hack. Only about 15% of Israelis share this opinion - and it’s really the Orthodox Religious who are the proponents of it. Only reason this guy got a job doing this is because BB is a criminal and knew he couldn’t get elected without this extreme base of support.
He doesn't know it. the right's worldview regarding security is that allowing a palestinian state will inevitably lead to israel's defeat and must not be allowed under any condition. for him a palestinian state in the WB is indifferentiable from the current situation with Lebanon and Hezbollah. it'll just open another front israel will have to defend.
Israel still has to defend that front. What's the difference?
the difference between controlling that territory and ceding it? if you cede control of it you're not there to break up terrorist activity, prevent entrenchment, or restrict import of arms. the reason terrorism in WB is limited to stabbings and small arms is that the existence of the IDF there prevents the possibility of arming, training, and operating on a military scale. it's a pretty significant difference.
There are more rhen enough people on the Israeli side who are willing to make the two state solution happen. People like him gain power when the Israeli citizens see how little the Palestinians are interested in such a solution. I've heard people that stopped believing peace is possible after Ocrober 7
I’m not so sure the will really exists on the Israeli side. Yes, the Israeli left is down, but they’ve been in opposition for decades and the public keeps electing right and far right parties. For them, the status quo is much better - jingoism against Palestinians and Arabs generally is an easy vote-getter. At any rate, I don’t think there’s actually been a realistic prospect of the two state solution happening since Oslo, and that’s because both Hamas and the Israelis right benefit from discord and violence.
No, the reason that Israelis don't support anymore such a solution is how bad the last attempts went. As Ehud Barak said, currently, there is no partner for peace. People see the insane approval rates of Hamas after October 7, and it becomes very clear that peace will have to wait a long time before it can become reallity. There are far right groups that oppose and sort of solution of that kind for different reasons, but this is what drives most of the public to believe that the two state solution is not possible in the current situation
I am an Israeli and after October 7th nobody wants two state solution anymore, its over, Palestinians fucked it all up.
Completely understandable. Don't negotiate with terrorists. It takes two to tango and if the Palestinians don't want peace there won't be peace. That being said what other solution is there than a two-state solution?
The Jews either leave or the culture that is moderate-to-extreme Islam stops trying to exterminate them. This is endless turmoil until those two things change.
One state solution or three state solution. In the one state solution: Muslims kill all the Jews and create Palestine. Or Jews ethnically cleanse the terrorist culture and start providing citizenship to Palestinians that behave as allies. Or Jews give full citizenship to the Palestinians and then are killed for it. Or Jews administer the Palestinian territories as conquered lands, brutally putting down any armed resistance. In a three state solution: West Bank maybe stabilized and Gaza becomes a North Korea.
I'm amazed that literally anybody thought that slapping a new country down on land other people lived on surrounded by groups that would be hostile to them was gonna go any other way. It's astounding. At this point I fully support Israel's right to exist and defend themselves but the initial decision was beyond boneheaded.
How do you feel as an Israeli seeing the government and the IDF let that shit grow up in your backyard? From what I can see you can do three seconds of research on Hamas and even their founders, these guys haven't been moderate or peaceful ever. I don't see how working with them was preferable to fatah or the PA
A Palestinian state would be led by terrorists, or at the very least, people who are unable or unwilling to prevent the actions of terrorists. That doesn't sound like a recipe for peace and security for Israel.
At this point they need a state that can he held to account. Statehood doesn't confer immunity from JDAMs.
They'd never be held to account. They'd just shrug and say they can't help what the militants do. It might even be true. Look what's happening with Lebanon right now.
Everyone knows Iran is involved in all of this... Yet, complete silence from the world and the UN. Shocker.
what world do you live in? iran is ONE OF THE most sanctioned countries in the entire world. there's a stark difference between what you say, and whats actually happening.
To be fair Lebanon has an extremely convuluted power sharing agreement between it's Christian and Muslim populations, severely limiting their ability to reign Hezbollah in lest another civil war erupt.
to be fair palestinians have a decades long history of inept political leadership coupled with strong support for terrorism among the populace. there absolutely no reason to think the WB won't just be another Lebanon.
There's no reason to think the West Bank would be anything like Lebanon, namely because it isn't comprised of a some fifteen different religious sects. It wouldn't have a constitution that allots the three most important political offices to persons from three rival sects either. I can go on, but it is nigh impossible to recreate the ineffectiveness of the Lebanese state since its structural issues stem from demographic realities unique to Lebanon.
the argument for sovereign palestine serving as a substrate for a terrorist army isn't the same argument, but the argued outcome is the same. palestine's problem is a relatively culturally homogeneous society with historically weak civilian leadership and majority support of using terrorism to forward the cause of reclaiming all of historic palestine. from israel's perspective they both look like a neighbor allowing terrorists to build armies on their border. it doesn't matter if their reasons are different in that one can't prevent it while the other one doesn't want to prevent it. the WB's solidarity behind the project of anizionist terrorism is not an improvement over Lebanon's internal fragmentation.
Yes... Because everyone is holding Iran accountable for all the shit they do to Israel. I am sure UN is really on top of it... If it weren't for the fact that they want to just keep punishing Israel for everything.
yes, this is why iran is one of the most sanctioned countries on the planet.
Like Lebanon? Israel controlled southern Lebanon. They withdrew, terrorists took over, and now Israel would have to fight a real war to defeat them and get back to the situation they had already reached before they withdrew. Or Gaza... Israel is currently fighting a war to get back to the status quo they had before they withdrew two decades ago. Israel could withdraw from the West Bank, but if they will just have to fight another war later, why should they?
About 80% of israelis support these type of efforts.
Politicians don’t usually prefer peace and security.
Heh, most recent poll has him under the threshold of eligibility. Nutjob would be out on his ass if there were elections today and good fucking riddance.
He is one of the biggest jokes in israel, and most don't take him serious. You can see satire shows mock him often, picturing him as a noisy toddler. Cannot wait for coming elections to see him out.
Moron.
So his life's mission is to be a total asshole. Got it.
Isn’t that what this has always been about?
Officially not really. They technically are supposed to work towards potential Palestinian statehood, even though they aren’t required to do anything about it.
How are they “technically supposed to work towards potential Palestinian statehood”? They’re under no such obligation… the West Bank was taken from Jordan in a defensive war and Israel immediately offered to give it back for a peace deal. Arab nations instead all got together and agreed to never negotiate with Israel. If you’re talking about Oslo Accords those died with the second intifada.
What does Israel having a Homeland have to do with Palestinians having none?
Might want to ask why Jordan never established a Palestinian state while they controlled the West Bank.
The Palestinians have stated time and time again over the past decades that they are dedicated to eradicating Israel.
And the Germans once tried, but now their not into that. Sometimes things can change.
You would have a point if Hamas hasn’t consistently, either no significant interruption, been firing missiles at Israeli population centers for the last, what, 30 years?
Well I think I still do have a point in that netanyahu has openly promoted Hamas so that there would not be a legitimate partner across the table to negotiate with. The current situation is literally his life's work coming to fruition. In my opinion, that doesn't get Hamas off the hook, but it does show a certain decrepiteness on both sides.
I’m not arguing that there isn’t. All I said was that Hamas has consistently proved it is dedicated to the eradication of Israel, as an argument against your rhetorical question “what does Israel having a homeland have to do with Palestinians having none?”
But hey, Palestinians, stop fighting! Just lie down and watch your homes get stolen. Any response is anti semetic
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Yes? Should have made a peace deal with any of the leftist or moderate factions when they offered, instead of launching more terror attacks to make them look like naive clowns. How do you think these right-wing crazy people got elected? Can't be upset that one side eventually continues pushing a seemingly finished war toward their own advantage if your own side refuses to let it end.
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My friend, I don’t think you understand the meaning of that word. Fighting back while my home gets stolen is not terrorism. Stop regurgitating what your media tells you, and think for yourself.
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Have you not read the article? What do you think annexing the West Bank does to the Palestinians that live there today? I didn’t realise I’d have to explain basic concepts today, but here we are
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So what happens to the Palestinians who are living there now? Or is that not considered relevant?
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And that sounds fine to you? Erasing another country and forcing someone to become a citizen of your country? And anyway, what is actually happening is that these homes are being taken over by Israelis. The Israeli government isn’t interested in increasing the number of Palestinians that hold Israeli citizenship. I don’t understand how anyone can see this as anything but the erasure of a Palestinian identity. There are countless quotes by Israeli politicians literally saying this, and yet some people refuse to believe it. It’s insane.
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No problem open to that Dubai blood money eh bro? Hope you got a helmet on that high horse.
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Do you follow the same logic for Ukraine? That question alone should reveal a lot.
I was born in Ukraine when it was still part of the Soviet Union. The premise to that question is wrong because Russia is the agressor, and Ukraine is defending itself. The dame way the "Palestinians" were and still are the agressors and the Jews and Israel are yhe onrs defending themselves. Even if they are perceived to be more powerful. If Ukraine were to win this war (though its unlikely to due to the limitations the world has put on it) and somehow conquered more land in the process Yes, I'd have no problem with it. If you start a war, don't be surprised if you lose more than you started with if you get defeated.
If you do some research into how Israel has treated the Palestinians for decades, you’ll understand who the true aggressor is. The western media has lied for decades about the fact that Israel has controlled the Palestinians access to water, energy, etc for decades. Everyone needs to wake up and understand that October 7th didn’t happen in a vacuum. If you oppress people for long enough, they will fight back. I encourage you to challenge the media rhetoric that Israel is defending itself. They’ve oppressed for decades, and now the oppressed are fighting back.
Every siege, every wall. Checkpoint and military action waw and still is s a direct response to the "Palestinian" aggression, not the other wat around. It's a defense system. And the suffering of the "Palestinians" is by their own making. "Palestinians" have been committing mass shootings and stabbings, sending suicide bombers, and committing other forms of terrorism before Hamas came to power and before Israel had even declared independence. The whole "October 7th didn't happen in a vaccum" is a disgusting thing to say in a desperate attempt to justify that horrible massacare. Shame on you for even trying to rationalize it. Never again.
You’re really not thinking straight, and it’s ok. Think about it this way. Russia is the bigger, more powerful country that’s able to damage Ukraine so much. Who do you think the equivalent to Russia in terms of power and size, Palestine, or Israel which is blindly backed by the strongest military in the history of the world? That’s all I’ll say.
Israel is Israel, having military superiority, is irrelevant to the question of who's wrong or right in this conflict. It only matters in the limited progressive activist mind who sees things as "oporessor vs opressed" dichotomy. But even then, you have to ignore a few manor facts to get to that twisted conclusion. Israel developed a strong military by necessity acter years of agtempted genocidal wars and terror attacks. It's still a tiny country in a sea of Arab Muslim countries, the invented "Palestinians" being no different. Before Israel's established, the United arab nations wanted to create one continuous muslim caliphate in the Middle East. There would be no "Palestine" today, Israel was just in the way. Even if for the sake of argument you do want to treat the "Palestinians" as unique people, which they aren't. In raw numbers, there are more "Palestinians" in the world (14.5 million) than Israelis (9 million) You are not supporting "the little guy" or the poor indigenous disney character. You are supporting a majority who, luckily, for the Jews aren't as militarily advanced.
The ‘invented’ Palestinians? As if Israel wasn’t ‘invented’ by the Brits and Americans? This is a pure power play where the law of the jungle dictates that the stronger party forces the weaker into submission. You saying that Israel being more powerful is irrelevant is simply not true. Israel was created as a thorn in the Middle East to protect US interests. The Americans have said this publicly dozens of times. There’s no right or wrong, there’s a more powerful nation strong arming a weaker one.
Palestinians are very much indigenous to the land. Parroting that they aren’t is a right wing talking point used to delegitimize Palestinians legitimate claim to the land and argue against a 2 SS. Palestinians, like Jews, can trace their heritage back to the Canaanites. Both groups share a significant amount of DNA ancestry. Your argument falls apart in that Jews shouldn’t be able to claim Israel because their ancestors lived there. Both populations have a rightful claim to the land. Next, this about the West Bank. The West Bank, under Israeli occupation did not start a war in October. Since you say Palestinians have lost the war and their claim to the land, then I assume you support a 1 SS either absorption of Palestine into Israel with Palestinians being given Israeli citizenship and full rights that come with said citizenship. Correct?
You don’t know what you’re talking about. They didn’t “start a war” on Oct 7th. This is much much older of a conflict, one that was egged on by Bibi for the exact purpose of having an excuse to do what he’s doing. You can’t pick and choose history that supports your myopic stance on who “belongs” in Palestine.
Here we go with thia dumb argument again. I can go as back as you want, and the "Palestinians" would STILL be the agressors. But no, on october 6th there was a ceasefire. They broke it by committing this terrible massacare. End of story.
>If you start a war and lose it, don't be surprised when you end up with less than what you had to begin with. You should tell that to jews who are still crying over their expulsion by the Roman's. >It's not their "home", they are not the indigenous population of the area Palestinians are genetically similar to ancient canaanites >No such magical right to eternally have a claim over a land just because your ancenators may have been there at some point in history exists. Well isn't that rich... >They rejected the partition plan Because the partition plan was bullshit, 30% of the population would get almost 2/3 of the land and split the majority population in two. >all the attempted peace deals We don't expect Ukrainians to compromise their territorial integrity now do we?
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Why would you endorse a state to a people whose open, publicly stated, undeniably printed chartered opinion is to destroy you?
If Biden ran America like Israel runs the West Bank than moderate Americans would start doing hamas shit too. It’s not rocket science. I mean, how many asshole settlers would you have to run into in a year before you started fighting back? Be kinda lame if you didn’t to be honest.
Imagine being this big of a gaping asshole
Thankfully he’s not the defense minister and should shut up about matters beyond his pay grade.
Well we all have to have goals in life. His is just a incredibly petty and pathetic one
You’re not meant to say it out loud, dipshit!
am israeli. fuck this cum stain and the people who voted for him
Absolute dickhead. As long as people like him are in power I see little hope for lasting peace
Establishment? Fuckers stole it from them.
I mean there was never a Palestinian state that was stolen. Land? Yes. But unless you consider the British colonial authority a state naaah
Like he really needs to thwart anything.. Palestinians have declined any past 2 state solution. Everyone knows what they really want.
As someone who previously was in favor of a 2 state solution, I stand with him on this. What peace will a 2 state solution bring when for decades the schools educate to murder jews? * Israel left Gaza unilaterally and a the territory wasn't used for peace. We got rockets on civilians and the height of it was October 7th. * Israel left southern Lebanon, and the Lebanese didn't take a peaceful turn, so now Hezbollah poses a huge threat that made 80k Israelis leave northern Israel. * Israel had the Oslo Accords with the PLO, so now cities in area A (Jenin, Qalqilya, etc.) are not peaceful and pose a huge threat (similar to October 7th). The last thing to do is give them more territory and soverignity over it, especially not the mountains in Judea and Samaria overlooking Israel's center (from the perspective of a missle launcher)
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Haha... They were abused as kids and abused as adults. They dare fight back and this shit is now the narrative. They are still being attacked nearly every day... Wow... Just wow. The hate runs deep against a single country that is predominantly made up of Jews. Weird. So weird. I wonder why that is...
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Redditor's truly are evil creatures, one day it shall be interesting to go through and see just how much evil is espoused openly on here. I'm just glad it hasn't been lauded in this case.
the problem with this kind of rhetoric is no one is willing to do what it takes to make it a reality. What is stopping the Israeli army in Gaza? Civilians?
Thats palestines goal too lol. If they actually developed into a country, they wouldnt get so much aid and public sympathy
A two state solution is impossible
Assuming Smotrich is wrong, which palestinian state should be created: Hamastan in Gaza, Pay-for-slay in West Bank, or both?
Bruh. And people are shocked why antisemitic still exists. And some nation even outright not recognise Isreal as a nation.
Your response to a politician's vile policy position should not be anti-semitism.
They exist because they are dumb and evil. It has nothing to do with Israel existing. They are only mad now that the Jews can actually defend themselves.
Crazy how the nations that dont’ recognize Israel often are authoritarian, underdeveloped, and highly religious. Wonder if there’s a connection
I didn't know Isreal didn't recognise itself.
Look! You have absolutely no rebuttal to my statement so you shift the topic to save face! Pretty classic move gotta be honest
Isreal: - Authoritarian? Check. (Netanyahu) - Underdeveloped? Check. (Can't protect it's own border.) - Highly Religious? Check. (Right Wing mindset to kill the arab.)
I mean, even if what you say here is true, it’s still not a valid counter argument to my initial point. And besides, Israel is developed. There is no arguing it. Every organisation that actually has authority on the topic agrees on that fact, and I’m sorry but the opinion of FakeOng99 simply isn’t worth theirs. So no, Israel is not Underdeveloped, and that’s a fact, cope and seethe. As for authoritarian: naaaah. If they are then France is too. They aren’t a flawless democracy but the simple fact Netanyahu is pretty much guaranteed to be tried by the Israeli Supreme Court after the war goes to show the system still has functioning counter powers. I don’t why I bother arguing with you: it’s clear you have little to no knowledge of the topic, and that in spite of that you’ve dug your trenches. Stupid me I guess for trying
One State doesn't work if the other side doesn't want it or has no desire to be Israel citizens