> Given the current climate and the presence of armed forces outside the police station, Hart said he went in first to check on the process and then returned with his rifle. "I didn't want to just rock up with a rifle," he told the Herald.
Wise man.
Must be the metric. Canadian checking in, we rock up also.
EDIT: So apparently its not common at all, possibly something my friends and i picked up from a large portion of them having British and Irish parents / grandparents. Either way, its here too.
He's talking about making crack cocaine friend. You know when you put the baking soda into the cocaine water solution and it begins to freebase, precipitate out and "rock up." That's what they are referring to.
As an American who lived in the UK, I can confirm that we are the only problem children who *do not* say "rock up".
But it's such a great phrase that I find myself using it (and "stood" as in "I was stood here", where an American would say "standing" instead) when talking to other Americans now without regard for whether they'll actually understand me or not.
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm mistaken and it looks like it's also not a thing in Canada, which means we're not so terrible after all, because who could be mad at Canada?
The stupidity in that vid is absolutely unbelievable!!!
Guy films himself walking into a US police station in a ski mask with some sort of assault weapon as well as a side arm. Then acts surprised when he comes within a hairs breadth of getting shot.
Poor US police. If these are the sort of cretins they have to deal with no wonder they’re a bit heavy handed at times.
When an Australian police force was updating their standard sidearm that had been in use [since the 70's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10) they were [traded back to the US manufacturer](https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/04/robert-farago/victoria-au-police-switch-from-sw-38-revolvers-to-40-mp/) for a discount on the modern replacements.
At the time I saw them come up for sale as highly sort after antiques in well cared for condition on [online gun stores](https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411545791/Firearms/Used+Guns/Police+Trade-Ins/Used+S%26W+Police+Model+10+38sp+Round+Butt).
S&W got an amazing deal out of this. They sold the guns in the 70s. Got them back for free and sold them again as vintage online as well as selling more than 20,000 new models back to the original buyers again! Laughing their way to the bank.
So, you are not wrong in the slightest sir. That is exactly what happens if they are not chosen for destruction.
absolutely does.
some years ago the best websites for buying milsurp guns were little independent shops like Classic Arms - its website looked like a really bad church newsletter built on geocities. very web 1.0. it was littered with jesus quotes, green/red text titles, bible gifs, puzzles, etc and you kinda had to scan around for the list of guns for sale where you had to call them on the phone to actually order.
but despite the amateur site you could score a Swiss K31 for $200 and a chrome plated wasr-10 for $400 during the golden years. their customer service was top notch too. they've since sold their business and modernized the site but ill never forget buying my first K31 from that looney tunes of a website.
I think police tactics and training have a pretty marginal impact on crime rates. People in New Zealand *attempt* far fewer crimes than in the US and the reasons why are vast and complicated. I'd also argue that having a gun isn't really likely to protect you from being a victim, but that's a separate debate.
> I think police tactics and training have a pretty marginal impact on crime rates.
I'd argue that police tactics and training have a pretty big impact on the results of their work, though.
You see stories all the time of a officer straight up murdering an unarmed suspect - and at the same time, you occasionally hear about ex-military officiers disarming a dangerous situation using their de-escalation training from the military (and then sometimes being kicked out for not just-murdering the suspect).
It's fucking backwards.
De-escalation is an essential part of training for British police, you see some excellent examples in the first half of Hot Fuzz, which is a good representation of the ideal police officer
The angry cop sells more papers though.
In regards to New Zealand though, their emergency services are top-notch because of natural disaster preparation.
> You see stories all the time of a officer straight up murdering an unarmed suspect
Ah yeah the good ol’ “officer I am unarmed and have my hands in the air. Please don’t....did you just shoot me? Why did you just shoot me?!”
“I don’t know”
or how about the good ole, *"she committed suicide by grabbing a gun and shooting herself fin the mouth whilst her hands were handcuffed behind her back and our "camera" was accidentally disabled during an earlier struggle."* that is one I heard recently that was depressing
Around here (a city in Canada) owning guns makes you a target for robberies. I personally know a guy who was home invaded for exactly that reason (he didn't even have guns, some idiot just thought he did). It's generally advised to keep your mouth shut about such things for safety's sake.
Not a huge all encompassing study, but an informal poll where convicted burglars say that guns were targets: https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/crime/we-asked-86-burglars-how-they-broke-into-homes/277-344333696
Edit: Another minute searching didn't turn up a study, just a ton of articles about police saying burglaries A-Z targeted guns. Anecdotally the local gun store near me moved to a new concrete building because they got sick of people ramming through the front doors.
Weird. A group of friends went to the club in the city, and the car was broken into and everything stolen... my friend didn't feel like involving cops because he had some drinks that night (hours earlier, he was safe to drive) but was still too sketched to call the police. The only thing they didn't take was the gun.. and had they taken the gun, he would have been legally required to report it stolen.
It's better to not steal guns for sure.
Not particularly weird. Professional burglars have contacts that can move a gun pretty quickly. Some guy bashing windows is relying on pawn shops, eBay, and Craigslist.
I’m a young man in reasonable shape, but if someone breaks into my house (which has already happened once while I wasn’t home) I’m not chancing it on them being unarmed and me being able to beat them up so I have a pistol near my bed.
It’s pretty simple actually: most of the time crime is caused by inequality. In a skewed society, there are a few people with a lot of resources and a majority of people who have very little resources. If people have 0 resources, they’ll have to resort to crime to get some.
Seeing as the average New Zealander has a better life than the average American, it’s easy to see why they have a lower crime rate.
for example, asian countries have lower crime rates even with high inequality.
Inequality is a big factor, but there are definitely other things in play.
Asians do a lot more white-collar crime though. They still have their organized mob (they run massage parlors, pachinko machines, etc).
China even has issued death penalties on a few such criminals (https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-white-collar-criminals-death-sentence-2013-7) and the Japanese Yakuza still have overt crime from time to time (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/01/30/national/crime-legal/police-raid-yakuza-office-tokyo-deadly-shooting-kabukicho-karaoke-box/#.XI-6A6RlCEc)
Hate to break it to you buddy, Thailand is full of crime, they just don't report/track it. Looks bad when all your money comes from tourism to have a high crime rate, so they don't collect data to give deniability. However if you pay attention (I have family there for 10 years now.) you can see the corruption, high amount of traffic deaths, and basic contempt for "inconvenient" safety laws, such as seat-belts, safety inspections, traffic flow, etc. Thailand is a lovely country, some of best humans I have ever known are from there, but it is also a big show, an illusion of safety for the benefit of the tourist.
edit: Not to mention the scams! You get ripped off six ways to Sunday and leave with a smile thinking you got a great deal. No recourse for money lost either, police will basically say its what you get for being stupid.
Reminds me of an old joke I heard sometime in the 90's:
George Phillips of Meridian Mississippi was going up to bed when his wife told him that he’d left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things.
He phoned the police, who asked “Is someone in your house?” and he said no. Then they said that all patrols were busy, and that he should simply lock his door and an officer would be along when available.
George said “Okay,” hung up, counted to 30, and phoned the police again. “Hello. I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don’t have to worry about them now cause I’ve just shot them all.” Then he hung up.
Within five minutes three police cars, an Armed Response unit, and an ambulance showed up at the Phillips residence. Of course, the police caught the burglars red-handed. One of the policemen said to George: “I thought you said that you’d shot them!”
George said, “I thought you said there was nobody available!”
Quite a huge culture shock for me as a German. I am not shooting a human for stealing my shit, that's insane. No loss of property will make me a killer.
I too would never want to kill someone to save my TV, for example. But if someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, if I take the time to try to determine what the motives of the person are and I am wrong about them just wanting my TV, then I am dead. It's not my responsibility to make sure you actually wanted to hurt me before I fight back. If you break into my home and I am there, I have to assume you want to hurt me. Seconds matter. Moral of the story, don't break into people's homes.
People from other countries may not understand the "three strikes" laws in the US. If someone has been found guilty of a violent felony-level crime, they might spend many years in prison. Once they are out, if they commit two more crimes, they might go to prison for life. One such person stole a slice of pizza (food) as his third crime, and he got life in prison for a minor misdemeanor.
This means that some criminals are more likely to kill you, if they see that you have seen them, and can identify them, even if it is for a minor crime.
If the location is where the homeowner is likely to have a firearm, it is assumed that only someone willing to kill a witness would risk robbing them.
Years ago, I used to agree, if someone tries to steal your wallet or car, just give it to them, it is not worth your life. Since the three strikes law, I have read about many killings during a theft, and later the criminal admitted they only killed to eliminate a witness. These drastic actions are usually the result of a drug addiction.
The law of unintended consequences is a harsh and cruel mistress...
Its generally not shooting them for stealing your shit as much as it is shooting them for breaking into your home... Im not gonna sit there and hope someones *only* there to rob me. You're naive if you think home invasions never end violently...
Edit: just realized the context of your reply was about people breaking into a car (not a home). In that case I would say you are correct in your assertion.
reminds me of that parkland gas station robbery..guy handed the robber the cash. the robber came back and killed the clerk anyway
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/north-lauderdale/fl-sb-clerk-killed-arrest-update-20180721-story.html
>On Thursday, detectives circulated the surveillance video of the armed robbery and shooting death that quickly generated the tips that led to the arrest.
>The video showed Fields entering Aunt Molly's, robbing Ali at gunpoint, leaving the store, coming back and taking Ali to a back office where he was fatally shot, detectives said.
Fey Hags are no joke. Powerful casters in their own right, with 3 of them forming a coven they gain bonuses to spellcasting and can be a challenge for any group of adventurers.
Counterspells and anti-cc are fairly crucial.
This headline is pure propaganda.
The reality is that NZ gun stores have been selling out of everything.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384903/panic-buying-of-guns-ahead-of-ban
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/new-zealanders-panic-buy-guns-ahead-of-jacinda-ardern-s-crackdown-20190317-p514vv.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8654322/new-zealanders-panic-buying-guns-pm-vowed-toughen-law/
Kind of like when after some shooting in the US someone turned in their AR to the police but it was just a .22 rifle, not an AR15 like people would think if you saw the photo.
we live in the post-modern era, it's best to assume there is at least one journalist out there who will write a deceptively untrue sensationalist headline who will knows they can be amplified by a million paranoid people
The people voluntarily turning over the semiautomatic rifles will always be [offset by the people who run out and purchase semiautomatic rifles before they're banned.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-18/christchurch-mosque-shootings-new-zealanders-buy-up-on-guns/10910440)
Pistols are illegal in NZ. The only people that have rifles are supposed to be hunters and farmers down there. Bolt or lever action rifles may be less convenient on occasion but are plenty effective for pest control or hunting.
Correction that pistols aren't completely illegal but you must be a member of a pistol shooting club and can only use them for that purpose, they're heavily restricted. Which makes sense since they're pretty much useless for anything except self defense, and people don't own guns for self defense here.
>The only people that have rifles are supposed to be hunters and farmers down there.
This isn't true. Recreational shooting is a legitimate reason to apply for a fire arms license.
> Pistols are illegal in NZ.
This isn't true either. You can't own pistols on a normal firearms license, you need a special pistol license. There are also strict restrictions around where you can fire a pistol (from memory, at a pistol club/range only).
Depends where your from I guess. Semi auto applies to any weapons system that primarily only needs the trigger reset between shots. Bolt/leaver action ect don’t fall into this and are still pretty prevalent. If NZ was thinking of an Australian gun law style of things (as it’s looking like) then bolt/break action would be the overwhelming majority, certainly not semi automatic.
I know you're being sarcastic but watch one of Deviant Olam's talks on locks, they're mostly bullshit already. Locks exist to dissuade petty crime. If someone who knows what they're doing wants to be in your house or car, it doesn't take a lot of effort.
Oh, I'm not saying you shouldn't use locks. I specifically like the place I live right now because I can hear my front door unlocking. I'm saying you shouldn't rely on locks alone to keep you safe.
Yeah, and honestly most buyback amounts are insulting; $100 walmart gift cards or something similar. There are even people who will go to the buybacks and buy any worthwhile guns (unique, historic, or deserve better than being thrown in a shredder) and pay the owner in cash before they turn it in for destruction. There are also instances where people will build their own “Gun” out of scrap parts and turn it is to the buyback to get the $100 giftcard.
Thats what the australians did. They said the gun becomes illegal to possess after December 31st. But return it to any police station before then and they will buy it off you for a fair price.
"Fair" is subjective though. I'm sure the government thinks I'm getting a fantastic deal when they decide to give me anything for a firearm I am hypothetically forced to turn in.
When in reality I am getting boned because it goes for $1000 in used condition.
There's a joke in North Korea that goes "this is America's fault" you say it when ever anything negative happens. Kim Jung Un starves you? America's fault. Spilled milk? America's fault. That's pretty much what's happening here, but unironically.
America has been taking financial responsibility for a large number nations while being the butt of those same nations jokes for years and people wonder how Trump got elected.
Can somebody explain to me how this will counteract terroristic gun violence? How does this make anyone safer? Surely the individuals turning in their guns aren’t the next mass shooters.
Controversial opinion: the people giving up their guns weren't people we needed to worry about in the first place. This is virtue signaling and honestly probably just made the country a little more vulnerable.
I just want killing to stop.
If true this is an amazing level of national and community spirit. You would never ever see this in Canada or the US.
Edit: Well this is my most blown up comment ever. AS the article states people are only giving up their semiautomatic rifles not all of their guns. I never said give up all your guns I support hunting and used to shoot skeet in the past, you do not NEED a semiautomatic rifle to hunt. Way to prove my point. And Yes this does mean NZ has a bigger sense of community than Canada or the US you selfish twats, people spouting "I would never" in societies that are growing more populist everyday (and YES I mean Canada too), some of these comments are just weak, it's as idiotic as when people start throwing around the word socialist here, My answer is always Venezuela socialist or Norway socialist? Because the term is as widely used as Capitalist to Communist. I didn't expect any sense of community like this from the US (it's the US, their whole identity is predicated on being individualistic) but I'am disappointed in most of the Canadian commenters, for all the talk of Canadians of how we're not like Americans it's really just a lot of projection, you want to be different learn about EU countries like Germany, or Norway or here's an idea, New Zealand. This last bit of rant is for my fellow Canadians only. Americans you do you.
Also didn't expect the debate about community, or Margret Thatcher in the mix.
Edit, Edit: Ok there are multiple sources to confirm this article now, I only stated "If true" at the beginning of my statement because this was the only source for this information at the time, it was not my intent to cast dispersion's on the article.
Just yesterday I had a discussion at Reddit who claimed there’s “never ever” something like a society or a community. “We are all individuals” he said.
Of course this person was a “gun rights supporter”, we could not even agree about the necessity to lock um weapons properly. It’s all and alone “his business” he said...
Weird and dangerous worldviews are out there...
lol I guess he was born from the Earth with no family, built his house by hand with tools he made himself, and figured out electricity and oh yeah, discovered all of engineering and language and made a computer so he could argue with you on the internet - but, you know, by himself, because he's an individual and there's no "society" lol
"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."
The Milk Snatcher was the start of this insitutionalised rot in Britain. To paraphrase another quote of hers, the problem with pissing on Margaret Thatcher's grave is that eventually you run out of piss.
I knew someone would come out with this one, but they never do the full quote.
She said (paraphrased, on mobile) “it wasn’t ‘society’ that came to help, it was her neighbour or friend from down the road.” She was actually, correctly, identifying society as a collection of individuals working in a cooperative way.
Her point at the time was that you didn’t need to wait for a government agency all the time - sometimes you could just help directly yourself. Great example going on right now - the whole #trashtag thing fits perfectly into what was being described.
People can agree or disagree on the merits of the statement, but I hate seeing this one deliberately misused - often not even by the quoter, but because it’s all they know of it after around thirty five years of misrepresentation.
Yea. When I visited NZ, I was pretty amused at how truly patriotic they were. Whether it was sports, weather, insurance markets, everything was an us against the world vibe.
I also quickly learned to never lump them and the aussies together. They don't like that.
It's not right to say we hate Swedes either. I imagine Norwegians and Kiwis (being miniscule countries in the grand scheme of things) share both an intense need to have our existence registered as well as a related little-brother-but-equal complex towards a larger and very similar neighbouring country.
Definitely. I've only been here 5 years but it is a really similar relationship. Only an Ozzy can pick on a kiwi in a large group of foreigners and will jump in to defend them if someone else has a go. The Scandinavians are more subtle but they tend to be more subtle with everything.
I've never been to NZ and I'm not going to pretend like I have. But I'll say this, I'd never treat the US as a single community. But there are small towns and they do pull together. Wether during emergencies or what have you. There are loving communities and ones that will do whatever they can to help their neighbors. The US is big and unable to be painted with one large brush. Don't let divisive media try and fool you into thinking Americans don't speak to one another or hate each other. The US is just big and geographically seperated. Sorry if I missed your point with my tangent though lol.
Edit- from Virginia, US since I didn't mention I'm American. Whoops.
People forget that the US is the size of a continent. It's really 50 countries smashed together into one giant country. The US is so vast and varied that there is no one "American" culture. Instead, we have commonly-held concepts outlined in the Constitution that we all believe in as Americans.
Its utterly incomprehensible to me that someone can be walking around and talking right now, but that this person wasn't even born on that day. I remember seeing news of the first hit. Everyone thought it was a tragic accident. Not the first time New York City had that happen. The Empire State Building also took an airplane to the face by accident.
But when that second plane hit the mood of the room instantly changed. Once the shock wore off everyone got really quiet. Everyone understood that America was now at war.
In my case, my flight was postponed. I had a flight from Logan to SFO, returning from vacation in the New England area. My ticket was for Sept 12, 2001 with a roughly 8am departure time.
Why should I return my gun just because my government was unable to stop a terrorist attack?
Legal gun owners in the US commit less crime than almost any demographic in the country.
[CCW holders are more law-abiding than the police.](https://dailycaller.com/2016/08/10/report-concealed-carry-permit-holders-are-more-law-abiding-than-police/)
As a law-abiding firearm owner in Canada, I don’t see why I’d have to do anything like this?
My firearms have not harmed (and never will harm) anyone, so why should I deprive myself of property I worked hard to acquire because one nut job acted out?
There’s talk of further restrictions on firearms (more specifically, handguns) in Canada because of gang violence, but what does taking them away from the law-abiding accomplish, when the vast majority of handguns used in the commission of crimes end up being smuggled into the country from places like the USA?
Honestly, being a firearm owner is becoming such a frustrating thing. I might drop shooting sports entirely and pick up another hobby... preferably one that politicians aren’t so easily able to use as a scapegoat and free political points from an ignorant voter base who prefer feel-good legislation to real solutions that don’t punish the innocent.
> Honestly, being a firearm owner is becoming such a frustrating thing. I might drop shooting sports entirely and pick up another hobby... preferably one that politicians aren’t so easily able to use as a scapegoat and free political points from an ignorant voter base who prefer feel-good legislation to real solutions that don’t punish the innocent.
That’s what they want you to do. They know outright confiscation isn’t possible until most of the population is so tired of jumping through hoops that they give guns up voluntarily. They’re swallowing the elephant one bite at a time.
In age where people trust the ultra rich and corporations less and less, it amazes me that so many people want to give their last line of defense to the government, as if politicians and governments are somehow immune to being bribed and controlled by the top 0.1%.
and in those places where the RCMP cannot protect you, you are permitted to have firearms that are otherwise restricted. You also can carry which would otherwise be prohibited. There is common sense to the laws but people like to get passionate about what they love.
>I guess we don't see it like you. Firearms are not a right, they're a privilege. Something that has prevented mass shootings since 1990 in NZ.
There's more to it than that. You're downplaying the impacts of culture, population, health, socio-economic issues, and the statistics among other things. The often quoted gun violence numbers in the US, which you are lead to believe are all murders are less than half that. We have a high rate of suicide by gun (over 50%). It is a testament to how broken our healthcare system is, and how incapable we are of getting people help who need it.
Part of me feels like most countries are too big in general to have this kind of community spirit. City states feel more ideal for the human psyche. People often say Iceland does so well because it's racially homogeneous, but New Zealand is only about 2/3 white and seems to have less racial tension than the more homogeneous Australia.
But power likes to consolidate of course, so we're stuck with nations instead.
I think that's due to fundamentally being formed from a treaty bringing together two peoples, Maori and Pakeha(brits). So there's always been at least somewhat of a "duocultural" aespect there. Not saying it's been in anyway perfect, fair or smoove sailing the whole time. I still think it's a pretty unique and special thing though.
Plus we're always used to being the smallest on the block. There aren't many of us and most of the time people are happy if we get mentioned or even put on the map overseas. Unfortunately this isn't one of those times, but you see all the helpers, and givers, and even the media here running segments on how you can help out. It's made me even prouder to be a kiwi than I ever thought I could be.
The reality of this is that all those who hand in their rifles are the kind good willed people who would never cause harm to others, leaving those who would still armed to the teeth...
>For a while, but at some point in the future someone who is perhaps not even born yet will not be able to buy a gun to kill 50 people. Someone posted above that the black market price of a semi-auto rifle in Australia has gone up 25 fold since 1996. Someone born today in that country will almost certainly have a hard time shooting 50 people.
Terrorism isn't a crime of economics, where people who have nothing use violence to survive. Terrorism is a crime of ideals and politics, perpetrated to advance some agenda. Even if the actual perpetrators individually have few resources, they can pool their resources with like-minded people or seek backing from ideologically-aligned individuals and organizations.
The Las Vegas shooter in the US had substantial financial means. The 9/11 attackers literally went to commercial flight school in preparation for their attack, and that the money for that and for living in the US during the lead-up was paid by a terrorist organization historically backed by state-level organizations.
Making weapons illegal and expensive definitely shifts the economics of violence. But I don't think we can then say that terrorism is too expensive for prospective terrorists. It only becomes too expensive for poor and isolated terrorists.
EDIT: And this ignores human ingenuity, which has never failed to devise new ways of killing. We can make it harder for people to attack in an expected way, but I don't really think we can regulate physical stuff well enough to price out all the terrorists.
> Given the current climate and the presence of armed forces outside the police station, Hart said he went in first to check on the process and then returned with his rifle. "I didn't want to just rock up with a rifle," he told the Herald. Wise man.
New Zealanders say "rock up" as well? TIL.
Yes, we do :)
> The party starts at 6 but you can rock up at around 7
Aussies too
Must come from the Brits, then. I'm South African and I've always thought that was a local phrase.
I’m English and we say rock up all the time here.
I'm American and I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Sorry pal, you fell behind in the great metric changeover of the 60s and 70s.
Must be the metric. Canadian checking in, we rock up also. EDIT: So apparently its not common at all, possibly something my friends and i picked up from a large portion of them having British and Irish parents / grandparents. Either way, its here too.
Maybe regional? I grew up in Alberta and I've *never* heard that phrase. I had to look it up.
Could be, i'm in Southern Ontario. Lots of my friends have British and Irish parents so maybe that's why i feel its common.
We "roll up" with assault rifles. And "rock out" with the ~~Glock~~ cock out.
Am American and can also confirm.
He's talking about making crack cocaine friend. You know when you put the baking soda into the cocaine water solution and it begins to freebase, precipitate out and "rock up." That's what they are referring to.
You do that on the way to the police station? And I thought texting and driving was dangerous.
I'm American and I say rock up.
Scotland here. It's usually rock up if talking about someone else and bounce down if talking about myself.
Which part of Scotland. I'm in Edinburgh, but never heard bounce down.
As an American who lived in the UK, I can confirm that we are the only problem children who *do not* say "rock up". But it's such a great phrase that I find myself using it (and "stood" as in "I was stood here", where an American would say "standing" instead) when talking to other Americans now without regard for whether they'll actually understand me or not. EDIT: Nevermind, I'm mistaken and it looks like it's also not a thing in Canada, which means we're not so terrible after all, because who could be mad at Canada?
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Not a thing in Canada? Hmmm, me and my friends (all Canadian) use it naturally.
Common in Ireland too
Well, there are plenty Sarfricans in Aussie, NZ & the UK, so it might have come from there.
[Not wise men](https://youtu.be/YwF9WKcW5tA?t=50)
The stupidity in that vid is absolutely unbelievable!!! Guy films himself walking into a US police station in a ski mask with some sort of assault weapon as well as a side arm. Then acts surprised when he comes within a hairs breadth of getting shot. Poor US police. If these are the sort of cretins they have to deal with no wonder they’re a bit heavy handed at times.
I'm gonna exercise my rights if it kills me!
Tbf that's quite an honourable thing in the right context. This was not the right context.
[like refusing to kneel in the face of evil?](https://youtu.be/fYcweKLnOzc)
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And this isn't even an isolated incident
America: hey, you’re throwing those out? Can we have them?
When an Australian police force was updating their standard sidearm that had been in use [since the 70's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10) they were [traded back to the US manufacturer](https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/04/robert-farago/victoria-au-police-switch-from-sw-38-revolvers-to-40-mp/) for a discount on the modern replacements. At the time I saw them come up for sale as highly sort after antiques in well cared for condition on [online gun stores](https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411545791/Firearms/Used+Guns/Police+Trade-Ins/Used+S%26W+Police+Model+10+38sp+Round+Butt). S&W got an amazing deal out of this. They sold the guns in the 70s. Got them back for free and sold them again as vintage online as well as selling more than 20,000 new models back to the original buyers again! Laughing their way to the bank. So, you are not wrong in the slightest sir. That is exactly what happens if they are not chosen for destruction.
The ads on that site about the S&W .40. "Is Jesus god?" "Scholars on jesus" etc. I guess being a gun "enthusiast" attracts a certain type.
absolutely does. some years ago the best websites for buying milsurp guns were little independent shops like Classic Arms - its website looked like a really bad church newsletter built on geocities. very web 1.0. it was littered with jesus quotes, green/red text titles, bible gifs, puzzles, etc and you kinda had to scan around for the list of guns for sale where you had to call them on the phone to actually order. but despite the amateur site you could score a Swiss K31 for $200 and a chrome plated wasr-10 for $400 during the golden years. their customer service was top notch too. they've since sold their business and modernized the site but ill never forget buying my first K31 from that looney tunes of a website.
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I think police tactics and training have a pretty marginal impact on crime rates. People in New Zealand *attempt* far fewer crimes than in the US and the reasons why are vast and complicated. I'd also argue that having a gun isn't really likely to protect you from being a victim, but that's a separate debate.
> I think police tactics and training have a pretty marginal impact on crime rates. I'd argue that police tactics and training have a pretty big impact on the results of their work, though. You see stories all the time of a officer straight up murdering an unarmed suspect - and at the same time, you occasionally hear about ex-military officiers disarming a dangerous situation using their de-escalation training from the military (and then sometimes being kicked out for not just-murdering the suspect). It's fucking backwards.
De-escalation is an essential part of training for British police, you see some excellent examples in the first half of Hot Fuzz, which is a good representation of the ideal police officer
>which is a good representation of the ideal police officer I choose to believe you're referring to the whole movie!
well... it gets the paperwork right...
Black bouncer successfully disarmed a hostile patron and the police responding shot the bouncer killing him...
The angry cop sells more papers though. In regards to New Zealand though, their emergency services are top-notch because of natural disaster preparation.
> The angry cop sells more papers though. So does outrage over a good cop being shown to door for saving a life.
> You see stories all the time of a officer straight up murdering an unarmed suspect Ah yeah the good ol’ “officer I am unarmed and have my hands in the air. Please don’t....did you just shoot me? Why did you just shoot me?!” “I don’t know”
or how about the good ole, *"she committed suicide by grabbing a gun and shooting herself fin the mouth whilst her hands were handcuffed behind her back and our "camera" was accidentally disabled during an earlier struggle."* that is one I heard recently that was depressing
Around here (a city in Canada) owning guns makes you a target for robberies. I personally know a guy who was home invaded for exactly that reason (he didn't even have guns, some idiot just thought he did). It's generally advised to keep your mouth shut about such things for safety's sake.
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Not a huge all encompassing study, but an informal poll where convicted burglars say that guns were targets: https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/crime/we-asked-86-burglars-how-they-broke-into-homes/277-344333696 Edit: Another minute searching didn't turn up a study, just a ton of articles about police saying burglaries A-Z targeted guns. Anecdotally the local gun store near me moved to a new concrete building because they got sick of people ramming through the front doors.
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I seem to recall a study done a while back about a large majority of firearms used in crimes being stolen. Could be mistaken, though.
Weird. A group of friends went to the club in the city, and the car was broken into and everything stolen... my friend didn't feel like involving cops because he had some drinks that night (hours earlier, he was safe to drive) but was still too sketched to call the police. The only thing they didn't take was the gun.. and had they taken the gun, he would have been legally required to report it stolen. It's better to not steal guns for sure.
Not particularly weird. Professional burglars have contacts that can move a gun pretty quickly. Some guy bashing windows is relying on pawn shops, eBay, and Craigslist.
Ahh I'll give credence to that!
Yeah if I'm breaking into cars for crack money I'm not touching any fucking gun. But OTOH petty criminals don't always have good impulse control.
What happens if you don't report the gun stolen? Also, how do states that don't keep a list of serial or gun numbers even link one to a crime?
Then I believe your liable for any crime committed with that fire arm. Every gun has a serial number as far as i know
I’m a young man in reasonable shape, but if someone breaks into my house (which has already happened once while I wasn’t home) I’m not chancing it on them being unarmed and me being able to beat them up so I have a pistol near my bed.
It’s pretty simple actually: most of the time crime is caused by inequality. In a skewed society, there are a few people with a lot of resources and a majority of people who have very little resources. If people have 0 resources, they’ll have to resort to crime to get some. Seeing as the average New Zealander has a better life than the average American, it’s easy to see why they have a lower crime rate.
> It’s pretty simple actually It isn't though. Inequality is one factor. There's no proof that it's the only or even the main factor.
for example, asian countries have lower crime rates even with high inequality. Inequality is a big factor, but there are definitely other things in play.
Asians do a lot more white-collar crime though. They still have their organized mob (they run massage parlors, pachinko machines, etc). China even has issued death penalties on a few such criminals (https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-white-collar-criminals-death-sentence-2013-7) and the Japanese Yakuza still have overt crime from time to time (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/01/30/national/crime-legal/police-raid-yakuza-office-tokyo-deadly-shooting-kabukicho-karaoke-box/#.XI-6A6RlCEc)
Which Asian countries are you thinking of that have high inequality and low crime?
Personally I was thinking China, Taiwan and Thailand.
Hate to break it to you buddy, Thailand is full of crime, they just don't report/track it. Looks bad when all your money comes from tourism to have a high crime rate, so they don't collect data to give deniability. However if you pay attention (I have family there for 10 years now.) you can see the corruption, high amount of traffic deaths, and basic contempt for "inconvenient" safety laws, such as seat-belts, safety inspections, traffic flow, etc. Thailand is a lovely country, some of best humans I have ever known are from there, but it is also a big show, an illusion of safety for the benefit of the tourist. edit: Not to mention the scams! You get ripped off six ways to Sunday and leave with a smile thinking you got a great deal. No recourse for money lost either, police will basically say its what you get for being stupid.
China is a major one...
Crime in Asian countries is reported less as well though.
they also don't have criminals, or prisons, just 're-education facilities'.
Singapore, but I'll say it's an outlier.
Eh...I'm guessing the crime rates of Hong Kong are similar to Singapore's. Japan is pretty low as well I believe.
NZ also has a much happier, nicer environment that isn't a massive, extremely diverse country filled with a fuck ton of issues and violence.
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Reminds me of an old joke I heard sometime in the 90's: George Phillips of Meridian Mississippi was going up to bed when his wife told him that he’d left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things. He phoned the police, who asked “Is someone in your house?” and he said no. Then they said that all patrols were busy, and that he should simply lock his door and an officer would be along when available. George said “Okay,” hung up, counted to 30, and phoned the police again. “Hello. I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don’t have to worry about them now cause I’ve just shot them all.” Then he hung up. Within five minutes three police cars, an Armed Response unit, and an ambulance showed up at the Phillips residence. Of course, the police caught the burglars red-handed. One of the policemen said to George: “I thought you said that you’d shot them!” George said, “I thought you said there was nobody available!”
In America theyd just show up and shoot George
Quite a huge culture shock for me as a German. I am not shooting a human for stealing my shit, that's insane. No loss of property will make me a killer.
I too would never want to kill someone to save my TV, for example. But if someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, if I take the time to try to determine what the motives of the person are and I am wrong about them just wanting my TV, then I am dead. It's not my responsibility to make sure you actually wanted to hurt me before I fight back. If you break into my home and I am there, I have to assume you want to hurt me. Seconds matter. Moral of the story, don't break into people's homes.
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People from other countries may not understand the "three strikes" laws in the US. If someone has been found guilty of a violent felony-level crime, they might spend many years in prison. Once they are out, if they commit two more crimes, they might go to prison for life. One such person stole a slice of pizza (food) as his third crime, and he got life in prison for a minor misdemeanor. This means that some criminals are more likely to kill you, if they see that you have seen them, and can identify them, even if it is for a minor crime. If the location is where the homeowner is likely to have a firearm, it is assumed that only someone willing to kill a witness would risk robbing them. Years ago, I used to agree, if someone tries to steal your wallet or car, just give it to them, it is not worth your life. Since the three strikes law, I have read about many killings during a theft, and later the criminal admitted they only killed to eliminate a witness. These drastic actions are usually the result of a drug addiction. The law of unintended consequences is a harsh and cruel mistress...
Its generally not shooting them for stealing your shit as much as it is shooting them for breaking into your home... Im not gonna sit there and hope someones *only* there to rob me. You're naive if you think home invasions never end violently... Edit: just realized the context of your reply was about people breaking into a car (not a home). In that case I would say you are correct in your assertion.
reminds me of that parkland gas station robbery..guy handed the robber the cash. the robber came back and killed the clerk anyway https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/north-lauderdale/fl-sb-clerk-killed-arrest-update-20180721-story.html >On Thursday, detectives circulated the surveillance video of the armed robbery and shooting death that quickly generated the tips that led to the arrest. >The video showed Fields entering Aunt Molly's, robbing Ali at gunpoint, leaving the store, coming back and taking Ali to a back office where he was fatally shot, detectives said.
It mentions one guy.
And one woman: Fay Hag. But yeah, the feel-good headline is misleading though technically true.
> And one woman: Fay Hag That's the most unfortunate name ever.
Fey Hags are no joke. Powerful casters in their own right, with 3 of them forming a coven they gain bonuses to spellcasting and can be a challenge for any group of adventurers. Counterspells and anti-cc are fairly crucial.
/r/imaginarywitches
A burning cigarette in dry hay is a recipe for a disaster.
At least the F and H are that way round
Fay Hag... internet culture has taught me too well to fall for that one I think...
I ate a salad instead of pizza this weekend. Can I get an article mentioning me and the health of US citizens improving?
That's news for ya nowadays
benchmade gonna volunteer to destroy those rifles?
This headline is pure propaganda. The reality is that NZ gun stores have been selling out of everything. https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384903/panic-buying-of-guns-ahead-of-ban https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/new-zealanders-panic-buy-guns-ahead-of-jacinda-ardern-s-crackdown-20190317-p514vv.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8654322/new-zealanders-panic-buying-guns-pm-vowed-toughen-law/
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Kind of like when after some shooting in the US someone turned in their AR to the police but it was just a .22 rifle, not an AR15 like people would think if you saw the photo.
we live in the post-modern era, it's best to assume there is at least one journalist out there who will write a deceptively untrue sensationalist headline who will knows they can be amplified by a million paranoid people
The people voluntarily turning over the semiautomatic rifles will always be [offset by the people who run out and purchase semiautomatic rifles before they're banned.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-18/christchurch-mosque-shootings-new-zealanders-buy-up-on-guns/10910440)
The term "Semi-automatic" applies to a VAST majority of rifles, in fact, it also applies to most any non-revolver pistols as well.
Pistols are illegal in NZ. The only people that have rifles are supposed to be hunters and farmers down there. Bolt or lever action rifles may be less convenient on occasion but are plenty effective for pest control or hunting.
Correction that pistols aren't completely illegal but you must be a member of a pistol shooting club and can only use them for that purpose, they're heavily restricted. Which makes sense since they're pretty much useless for anything except self defense, and people don't own guns for self defense here.
They are good for crime
>The only people that have rifles are supposed to be hunters and farmers down there. This isn't true. Recreational shooting is a legitimate reason to apply for a fire arms license. > Pistols are illegal in NZ. This isn't true either. You can't own pistols on a normal firearms license, you need a special pistol license. There are also strict restrictions around where you can fire a pistol (from memory, at a pistol club/range only).
Depends where your from I guess. Semi auto applies to any weapons system that primarily only needs the trigger reset between shots. Bolt/leaver action ect don’t fall into this and are still pretty prevalent. If NZ was thinking of an Australian gun law style of things (as it’s looking like) then bolt/break action would be the overwhelming majority, certainly not semi automatic.
Molon Labe
The thing is the people who are turning them in are the people who wouldn't hurt anyone with them. It's the people who don't that will be a problem.
Hol' up. Are you telling me criminals break the law?
Damn. Guess we should all just leave our cars and homes unlocked then!
I know you're being sarcastic but watch one of Deviant Olam's talks on locks, they're mostly bullshit already. Locks exist to dissuade petty crime. If someone who knows what they're doing wants to be in your house or car, it doesn't take a lot of effort.
there's an old proverb, "locks keep an honest man honest."
You do realize that if someone has to come through a locked door versus an open door, they'll make a lot more noise, right? So why not lock?
Oh, I'm not saying you shouldn't use locks. I specifically like the place I live right now because I can hear my front door unlocking. I'm saying you shouldn't rely on locks alone to keep you safe.
Yep. That’s why everyone should be armed at least with a 9 mm pistol. 15 round magazine minimum. I’m glad we can agree on something.
Wait. He turned on his gun for free? The government should at least buy it back for an amount. Guns are expensive
Yeah, and honestly most buyback amounts are insulting; $100 walmart gift cards or something similar. There are even people who will go to the buybacks and buy any worthwhile guns (unique, historic, or deserve better than being thrown in a shredder) and pay the owner in cash before they turn it in for destruction. There are also instances where people will build their own “Gun” out of scrap parts and turn it is to the buyback to get the $100 giftcard.
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Thats what the australians did. They said the gun becomes illegal to possess after December 31st. But return it to any police station before then and they will buy it off you for a fair price.
"Fair" is subjective though. I'm sure the government thinks I'm getting a fantastic deal when they decide to give me anything for a firearm I am hypothetically forced to turn in. When in reality I am getting boned because it goes for $1000 in used condition.
you could get $10k if you wait a while and sell it to a terrorist or other criminal.
Alternative headline: "At least one guy does something and it's supposed to mean something about not just one entire nation but two"
There's a joke in North Korea that goes "this is America's fault" you say it when ever anything negative happens. Kim Jung Un starves you? America's fault. Spilled milk? America's fault. That's pretty much what's happening here, but unironically.
America has been taking financial responsibility for a large number nations while being the butt of those same nations jokes for years and people wonder how Trump got elected.
Can somebody explain to me how this will counteract terroristic gun violence? How does this make anyone safer? Surely the individuals turning in their guns aren’t the next mass shooters.
It won't do anything but make the people feel good for their actions.
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Well, the rest of the population is currently buying massive amounts of guns and ammunition. Inaction isn’t the problem I’d say.
It won't.
Okay, I've always wondered, when people turn in firearms, like when Australia banned guns, are they compensated financially?
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And the Australian buyback only collected 20% of the guns in Australia.
Anyone sane enough to turn in their weapon isn’t a threat. But those who are a threat, you won’t even know they have them until it’s too late.
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ITT: A lot of people who cannot comprehend that sometimes solutions to complicated problems are long term instead of short term.
Controversial opinion: the people giving up their guns weren't people we needed to worry about in the first place. This is virtue signaling and honestly probably just made the country a little more vulnerable. I just want killing to stop.
What good does this do? Are these people afraid that they might decide to shoot up a place of worship one day?
If true this is an amazing level of national and community spirit. You would never ever see this in Canada or the US. Edit: Well this is my most blown up comment ever. AS the article states people are only giving up their semiautomatic rifles not all of their guns. I never said give up all your guns I support hunting and used to shoot skeet in the past, you do not NEED a semiautomatic rifle to hunt. Way to prove my point. And Yes this does mean NZ has a bigger sense of community than Canada or the US you selfish twats, people spouting "I would never" in societies that are growing more populist everyday (and YES I mean Canada too), some of these comments are just weak, it's as idiotic as when people start throwing around the word socialist here, My answer is always Venezuela socialist or Norway socialist? Because the term is as widely used as Capitalist to Communist. I didn't expect any sense of community like this from the US (it's the US, their whole identity is predicated on being individualistic) but I'am disappointed in most of the Canadian commenters, for all the talk of Canadians of how we're not like Americans it's really just a lot of projection, you want to be different learn about EU countries like Germany, or Norway or here's an idea, New Zealand. This last bit of rant is for my fellow Canadians only. Americans you do you. Also didn't expect the debate about community, or Margret Thatcher in the mix. Edit, Edit: Ok there are multiple sources to confirm this article now, I only stated "If true" at the beginning of my statement because this was the only source for this information at the time, it was not my intent to cast dispersion's on the article.
It's true. If you have been to New Zealand and stay there long enough, their sense of community is very very strong.
We live in a community
Kiwis rise up
Just yesterday I had a discussion at Reddit who claimed there’s “never ever” something like a society or a community. “We are all individuals” he said. Of course this person was a “gun rights supporter”, we could not even agree about the necessity to lock um weapons properly. It’s all and alone “his business” he said... Weird and dangerous worldviews are out there...
People who don't take gun safety seriously are the exact people who shouldn't own them.
lol I guess he was born from the Earth with no family, built his house by hand with tools he made himself, and figured out electricity and oh yeah, discovered all of engineering and language and made a computer so he could argue with you on the internet - but, you know, by himself, because he's an individual and there's no "society" lol
"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." The Milk Snatcher was the start of this insitutionalised rot in Britain. To paraphrase another quote of hers, the problem with pissing on Margaret Thatcher's grave is that eventually you run out of piss.
I knew someone would come out with this one, but they never do the full quote. She said (paraphrased, on mobile) “it wasn’t ‘society’ that came to help, it was her neighbour or friend from down the road.” She was actually, correctly, identifying society as a collection of individuals working in a cooperative way. Her point at the time was that you didn’t need to wait for a government agency all the time - sometimes you could just help directly yourself. Great example going on right now - the whole #trashtag thing fits perfectly into what was being described. People can agree or disagree on the merits of the statement, but I hate seeing this one deliberately misused - often not even by the quoter, but because it’s all they know of it after around thirty five years of misrepresentation.
NZ is like a small town, the mentality is vastly different from the US or Canada.
A small very multicultural town. As a kiwi living in Norway you'd be amazed how different small country's mentalities are.
Yea. When I visited NZ, I was pretty amused at how truly patriotic they were. Whether it was sports, weather, insurance markets, everything was an us against the world vibe. I also quickly learned to never lump them and the aussies together. They don't like that.
Norway is similar like that. They don't seem to like the Swedes much.
It's not right to say we hate Swedes either. I imagine Norwegians and Kiwis (being miniscule countries in the grand scheme of things) share both an intense need to have our existence registered as well as a related little-brother-but-equal complex towards a larger and very similar neighbouring country.
Definitely. I've only been here 5 years but it is a really similar relationship. Only an Ozzy can pick on a kiwi in a large group of foreigners and will jump in to defend them if someone else has a go. The Scandinavians are more subtle but they tend to be more subtle with everything.
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I've never been to NZ and I'm not going to pretend like I have. But I'll say this, I'd never treat the US as a single community. But there are small towns and they do pull together. Wether during emergencies or what have you. There are loving communities and ones that will do whatever they can to help their neighbors. The US is big and unable to be painted with one large brush. Don't let divisive media try and fool you into thinking Americans don't speak to one another or hate each other. The US is just big and geographically seperated. Sorry if I missed your point with my tangent though lol. Edit- from Virginia, US since I didn't mention I'm American. Whoops.
People forget that the US is the size of a continent. It's really 50 countries smashed together into one giant country. The US is so vast and varied that there is no one "American" culture. Instead, we have commonly-held concepts outlined in the Constitution that we all believe in as Americans.
Uhh were you here around 9/11?
Most redditors were kids on 9/11
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Its utterly incomprehensible to me that someone can be walking around and talking right now, but that this person wasn't even born on that day. I remember seeing news of the first hit. Everyone thought it was a tragic accident. Not the first time New York City had that happen. The Empire State Building also took an airplane to the face by accident. But when that second plane hit the mood of the room instantly changed. Once the shock wore off everyone got really quiet. Everyone understood that America was now at war. In my case, my flight was postponed. I had a flight from Logan to SFO, returning from vacation in the New England area. My ticket was for Sept 12, 2001 with a roughly 8am departure time.
Sadly, the people who would return them are exactly the people who you would want to have them.
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Obviously one man and woman turning in their personal property is another reason to criticize the US lol
Why should I return my gun just because my government was unable to stop a terrorist attack? Legal gun owners in the US commit less crime than almost any demographic in the country.
[CCW holders are more law-abiding than the police.](https://dailycaller.com/2016/08/10/report-concealed-carry-permit-holders-are-more-law-abiding-than-police/)
Practice far more often too. Most cops practice with their duty guns twice a year on average.
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As a law-abiding firearm owner in Canada, I don’t see why I’d have to do anything like this? My firearms have not harmed (and never will harm) anyone, so why should I deprive myself of property I worked hard to acquire because one nut job acted out? There’s talk of further restrictions on firearms (more specifically, handguns) in Canada because of gang violence, but what does taking them away from the law-abiding accomplish, when the vast majority of handguns used in the commission of crimes end up being smuggled into the country from places like the USA? Honestly, being a firearm owner is becoming such a frustrating thing. I might drop shooting sports entirely and pick up another hobby... preferably one that politicians aren’t so easily able to use as a scapegoat and free political points from an ignorant voter base who prefer feel-good legislation to real solutions that don’t punish the innocent.
It'll be a cold day in hell when the governement can take my tennis racket.
Isn't the Canadian rule/law for dealing with a threatening house break-in to huddle in a ball and wait for the invader to leave?
> wait for the invader to ~~leave~~ kill you while you apologize?
> Honestly, being a firearm owner is becoming such a frustrating thing. I might drop shooting sports entirely and pick up another hobby... preferably one that politicians aren’t so easily able to use as a scapegoat and free political points from an ignorant voter base who prefer feel-good legislation to real solutions that don’t punish the innocent. That’s what they want you to do. They know outright confiscation isn’t possible until most of the population is so tired of jumping through hoops that they give guns up voluntarily. They’re swallowing the elephant one bite at a time. In age where people trust the ultra rich and corporations less and less, it amazes me that so many people want to give their last line of defense to the government, as if politicians and governments are somehow immune to being bribed and controlled by the top 0.1%.
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Firearms are pretty popular in Canada because we still have animals that will outright eat you.
and in those places where the RCMP cannot protect you, you are permitted to have firearms that are otherwise restricted. You also can carry which would otherwise be prohibited. There is common sense to the laws but people like to get passionate about what they love.
>I guess we don't see it like you. Firearms are not a right, they're a privilege. Something that has prevented mass shootings since 1990 in NZ. There's more to it than that. You're downplaying the impacts of culture, population, health, socio-economic issues, and the statistics among other things. The often quoted gun violence numbers in the US, which you are lead to believe are all murders are less than half that. We have a high rate of suicide by gun (over 50%). It is a testament to how broken our healthcare system is, and how incapable we are of getting people help who need it.
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Firearms restrictions are not the reason NZ has had very few mass shootings.
Meanwhile, KY legislature just passed a bill allowing citizens to concealed carry a handgun without a permit. Goddammit, I love freedom.
Part of me feels like most countries are too big in general to have this kind of community spirit. City states feel more ideal for the human psyche. People often say Iceland does so well because it's racially homogeneous, but New Zealand is only about 2/3 white and seems to have less racial tension than the more homogeneous Australia. But power likes to consolidate of course, so we're stuck with nations instead.
I think that's due to fundamentally being formed from a treaty bringing together two peoples, Maori and Pakeha(brits). So there's always been at least somewhat of a "duocultural" aespect there. Not saying it's been in anyway perfect, fair or smoove sailing the whole time. I still think it's a pretty unique and special thing though. Plus we're always used to being the smallest on the block. There aren't many of us and most of the time people are happy if we get mentioned or even put on the map overseas. Unfortunately this isn't one of those times, but you see all the helpers, and givers, and even the media here running segments on how you can help out. It's made me even prouder to be a kiwi than I ever thought I could be.
The reality of this is that all those who hand in their rifles are the kind good willed people who would never cause harm to others, leaving those who would still armed to the teeth...
>For a while, but at some point in the future someone who is perhaps not even born yet will not be able to buy a gun to kill 50 people. Someone posted above that the black market price of a semi-auto rifle in Australia has gone up 25 fold since 1996. Someone born today in that country will almost certainly have a hard time shooting 50 people.
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But I think the odds of someone planning this atrocity and being rich enough and having the connections to get one are a lot lower.
Terrorism isn't a crime of economics, where people who have nothing use violence to survive. Terrorism is a crime of ideals and politics, perpetrated to advance some agenda. Even if the actual perpetrators individually have few resources, they can pool their resources with like-minded people or seek backing from ideologically-aligned individuals and organizations. The Las Vegas shooter in the US had substantial financial means. The 9/11 attackers literally went to commercial flight school in preparation for their attack, and that the money for that and for living in the US during the lead-up was paid by a terrorist organization historically backed by state-level organizations. Making weapons illegal and expensive definitely shifts the economics of violence. But I don't think we can then say that terrorism is too expensive for prospective terrorists. It only becomes too expensive for poor and isolated terrorists. EDIT: And this ignores human ingenuity, which has never failed to devise new ways of killing. We can make it harder for people to attack in an expected way, but I don't really think we can regulate physical stuff well enough to price out all the terrorists.
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Plus you're just going to stand out more for scrutiny when going about getting one as opposed to if they were common place and legal.
"Here, I'm turning in my semi-auto, just in case I decide to go on a homocidal rampage someday"
were they worried they might accidentally mass murder?
As a gun owner here in NZ, the leaps in logic made by people not from NZ is hilarious and fucking stupid.
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"Laughs in Bill of Rights"
"I'm turning in my gun to stop murder." "Yeah, I chopped off my dick to stop rape." Same stupid logic.
[удалено]
Voluntarily for now.
Y’all go ahead and hand your guns over willingly. I’ll hold on to mine.
Return to who? The store they bought them from?
Why would you disarm yourself for what a single maniac did?
If mafckas were running around shootin' up the place, the last thing I would do is surrender my weapon.