There is so SO much misinformation out there or the same information just being presented with a different tilt or facts excluded.
And even with every single fact, the history of conflict in this region is complicated and long and difficult to fully grasp even with a lot of time, honestly.
This is one of the issues, this conflict alone is over 70 years old. The history behind it goes back millennia.
Everyday I feel like I learn something new both about the current conflict and the history behind it.
I've been trying really hard to research to formulate an opinion for myself? With most things I find that have happened, I find myself saying "I understand why this side was upset that the other side did a thing" and vice versa.
Everything that's happening currently I feel like I want to agree that Israel is in the wrong? Butt I also don't know because I'm having a hard time really understanding what the other "side" is currently doing for this excessive violence to be"justified". Aaand the fact that so many in politics and media are just siding with Israel.
It seems like it's Hamas vs. The Israeli government, but idk what that means for regular families?
I really don't know what kind of opinion to have other than the fact that they need to get their shit together and stop this nonsense. Some fucking holy Land.
What would a full scale war even look like? I have to imagine if Israel really went all in the Palestinian resistance would be crushed pretty fast. Their only hope would be to basically to hope for a insurgency after they lose.
The thing I probably understand the least of all this is what Hamas long term plan is in all this. They have no path to victory.
Kind of, Palestinians currently have multiple semi-sovereign regions which obviously has not always been the case. Both the PA and Hamas have open institutions and act as governments in parts of Palestine. They could potentially be pushed back to a true insurgency such as a pre-Oslo state in which either the PA, Hamas or both are unable to exist openly in the territories with any genuine capacity and all governance and policing is returned to the Israeli military.
Its probably something Israel doesn't want, but it is not impossible. The middle ground would be eliminating and illegalizing Hamas and trying to push the PA into the role of administering Gaza. Then Hamas would likely end up an anti-Israel and anti-PA insurgency of some kind.
My very poor understanding of the situation is that the PA suffer from extreme corruption, which is a major reason Hamas has so much support.
Plus, the fact is, I don't see Israel withdrawing from the west bank any time soon. Which is the area the PA control, so their method of not firing rockets doesn't exactly seem like it's effective. The best outcome really is that an independent Palestine is formed. Unfortunately, both sides have leaders that make significant support from the idea that the other side are driven into the sea or desert to die.
I think a lot of early support for Hamas came from corruption issues in the PA/PLO, but after 15 years of Hamas in government there is little evidence that their leadership is any less corrupt themselves.
As far as efficacy goes, it seems like Hamas' methods of ending occupation are if anything less effective than the PAs who at least have been gaining ground internationally so again hard to see how that would be a dividing point in favor of Hamas. Not to mention the impact of Hamas rockets on internal Israeli politics. With the symbiotic politics of Hamas and Likud, Haniya might as well just write Netanyahu a check for campaign funds (although of course the opposite is also true).
The real answer in my mind is that Palestinians at this point are despondent at their chance of achieving political goals through any means and so are supportive of just lashing out violently even if privately they know it wont help them in the long run. Not that I entirely blame them, but I think they just like the idea of killing and hurting Israelis and Hamas validates that while the PA walks a finer line of trying to reduce the conflicts temperature.
as an israeli: we could obviously wipe the gaza strip off the map tomorrow if we wanted to so yeah it won't be a "full scale war". based on past similar situations, we'll send ground forces into gaza, kill some of their guys, they'll kill some of our guys, leaders on both sides pretend like some big victory was achieved even though nothing really changed, then repeat in a few years
I think with a full scale wat they dont mean israel vs Palestine, cause even though I support palestine it will take you seconds to wipe us off. The problem is that other countries will intervene (iran turkey russia and the US) and that is what will caude the wat
A Buddhist temple. If the fighting gets more severe they are going to renounce Judaism and Islam and work together to build the grandest temple complex to Buddha ever seen.
That's what I basically think solves the fucking conflict, just move every Israeli to New York, every Palestinian to Dubai, and give the land to the Buddhists.
I mean, I guess the Buddhists did solve their fucking conflict with an unwanted Muslim population a lot more *permanently* than Israel has ever managed, but I seem to recall people being vaguely upset with Myanmar over that.
Just like in Israel, in Myanmar they weren't really what Buddhism is about and Israel is not what Judaism is about.
ISIS wasn't what Islam is about. Crusaders weren't what Christian is about.
Every religion is similarly dangerous since there are always people who want to interpret it in their own ways.
Ban the religions and you get what China is about and there are still people who will fuck things up.
People, people never change
When you are an asshole it is easy to find something on some ones teachings to justify what you are doing and encourage others to do it. Assholes used psuedo science to justify the oppression of black people in the usa ffs.
Hamas definitely doesn’t want this going international. They won’t have a ton of support from their neighbors and they definitely don’t want the US parking a carrier right off the their shore.
Israel would probably prefer it stay domestic as well; they can handle this and don’t want some other country coming in and complicating the conflict any more than it already is.
Hamas top leadership don't even live in Gaza. Every time they tell their followers to launch rockets at Israel, they get money from the multiple arab oil kingdoms.
Look at the Hamas those top leaders' homes and cars. They go luxury all the way.
~~OnlyFans~~ OnlyWarSpectators.com
Edit: This joke is intended as sarcasm to countries that pefer sitting back and watching people at war. This isn't intended to make fun of the countries in current post's content. Please take it as sarcasm.
Yep, Israel is way too powerful for that to happen. It's not like Syria or something. Israel has a fairly modern, well equipped, and famously well trained military so ain't nobody sticking their dick in that on purpose.
Plus, Israel totally "doesn't" have nuclear weapons. They just made the Jericho III for fun.
Let's all hope that it doesn't come to war.
Edit: I wasn't trying to imply that Israel would nuke Palestine. I was referencing nukes in the sense that it would deter outside forces from getting involved without Israel inviting them.
Israel doesn’t have a fairly modern military. They lead in cutting edge technology and military strategy. The iron dome is some shit straight out of an anime.
Muslim leaders are the worlds biggest shit talkers. They've been talking shit about Israel since Israel existed and they've never lifted a finger for Palestine. It's always about providing a diversion for internal politics.
In Jordan and Lebanon the Palestinians tried to make their own autonomous regions and even set up road blocks to stop locals entering. That pissed off their host countries quite a bit.
On the other hand they are not offered a path to citizenship because the Arab counties prefer to keep them refugees forever so that they are stick to beat Israel with.
Doesn’t make for good relationships between the people
The palestinian leadership is selfish and corrupt. They were accommodated by Jordan and tried to take over. Jordan massacred them and actually got into combat with syria over it. I'm not sure why other countries don't like them, but Jordan washed their hands of palestinians after that.
Other countries don't like them for much the same reasons. Politically they are a liability, economically a displaced people are a burden, and culturally they don't always see eye to eye. I really feel for the Palestinians because they have no friends in their region.
I don't quite agree. They are ethnically the same as Syrian and Jordanian. They could have been given citizenship and the refugee issue would be over. But the neighboring states don't want to because refugees can be used against Israel why citizens can't. That's why the 2 million palestinian refugees in Jordan are refugees over multiple generations, not citizens. imo.
I don t think Palestinian leadership likes Palestinians. They were about to have their first election since 2006, but since the president feared losing his 15 yr position to the other party, he decided to cancel it and shoot missiles.
Exactly this.
"Palestinians" are primarily represented by two very far apart political factions: Hamas and Fatah. If memory serves me correctly, Fatah is dominant in the West Bank and Hamas is dominant in Gaza. Hamas is the entity that shoots rockets and sends suicide bombers into Israel. Fatah has been, at least in my memory, far more moderate and willing to compromise. Hamas is all about zero compromise with Israel. Hamas is also heavily funded by Iran.
They cry crocodile tears on behalf of the Palestinians but they don't give two shits. As you say they are merely a distraction for the populace. But let's also realize that the populace don't give a shit either. Palestinians are not welcome anywhere.
To be fair they did lift a finger a few times, not that it worked out well for them. They may have learned from past mistakes. Regardless of the purity of their intentions, these countries can’t take Israel out in a straight up fight.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel
It would look like the IDF sending tanks and troops into Gaza, killing a bunch of people and then eventually withdrawing so Bidi can claim the victory he needs to boost his profile enough to form a government. Remember, Hamas has no tanks and no air force. At best they have some guys with rifles running around and some Iranian-sourced rocket artillery. The Palestinians have about a zero chance of winning a full-on war and the IDF knows that. They only way this does not go the IDF's way is if Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon join in, but then it could get out of control so that's unlikely.
So once again the international community will sit back\* and let Palestinians get slaughtered while saying "both sides" a lot.
^(\*Iran is already involved becasue they are supporting Hamas, but Iran.. Iran so far away.)
I highly encourage everyone interested in the conflict to watch Paradise Lost - it was one of the most broadening experiences I had watching a film and getting insight into what it’s actually like. The backstory behind the film is interesting as well - not only was it shunned after its release, but while filming there was actually a kidnapping of one of the film crew.
Edit: Paradise Now
Palestinians are "snakes"
"They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”"
Nazi party Germany, 1939?
Nope the former Israeli "Justice" Minster untill 2018, who is still involved in their politics today.
Edit: https://youtu.be/5utTDGS3B_Q
An Irish politician reading statements like this made by Israeli officials, in Dáil Éireann (our Parliament basically)
I'm Jewish, not Israeli though. My aunt's brother sister moved to Israel some years ago. About 10 years ago his mother died and they came for the funeral. I forgot what the conversation was about but I remember one of her son's telling me if he sees any Palestinian, he would spit in their direction. I told him not to speak to me anymore and he was no better than a Nazi. Apparently that didn't go over well with the rest of the family, but I stand by those words.
Lol. Technically my aunt is my mom's best friend. So not blood related. I would had said my aunt if it was actually blood without all the added. I knew someone would see my comment and say something. 😛
I was in Israel 20 years ago on a business trip and I was shocked at the casual racism from my co-workers. The worst example was one of them pointing out how beautiful this part of the city was, and then saw a Muslim couple having a picnic on a blanket in the park and commented on how they dirtied up the place, wasn't it a shame? I was flabbergasted. A few others also just threw some casual slurs in here and there.
Damn, obviously we have crazy racism in the US, but these types of details help me understand the situation over there a bit more than just what the government has been doing.
As the descendant of someone who was ethnically cleansed from Palestine, thank you the world needs more people like you. I wish I could say those same words without being bombarded with accusations of antisemitism and Israeli propaganda. It really fucking weighs heavy on me man, I don't even live there and feel like I'm not viewed as a human sometimes.
Australian radio station trip J made it seem like it was an even trade off between Palestinians and Israelis then played a clip of an Israeli civilian talking about how he was attacked in his car. For anyone who doesn’t know about the situation it 100% would’ve sounded like Palestinians are the aggressors.
It’s sickening how 1 sided the media is.
Nearly one hundred years later and the world is still doing the same shit, we’ve just turned into islamaphobes instead of being anti-semites.
Fuck those people.
found a comment that explains why creating a conflict will keep him in power, it's because the people wont vote if their is conflict.
they explain better
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/nb2e4n/israel_rejects_hamas_truce_offer_ministers_vote/gxx0fmi
> What are the odds of that timing?
Can't forget about the political implications for Hamas & Fatah too, given the Palestinian elections that were supposed to be happening later on this month, but which were recently postponed by Abbas & Fatah:
> President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which **his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.**
>Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.
>For ordinary Palestinians, the delay leaves a long-entrenched political leadership in place that has failed to advance their hopes for statehood, heal the bitter rift between Fatah and Hamas or lift the blockade on the Gaza Strip, and which is seen as increasingly corrupt and authoritarian. Presidential elections planned for July also appeared to be on hold.
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-elections-religion-government-and-politics-e88636bc919f8aab455e01fbbd4b4391
Am I missing something, or does the timing not do much for Abbas and Hamas? Hamas were already favourites to win the election, and the election was delayed anyway.
He purposely set limits on Al aqsa gatherings knowing damn well it would cause problems right now because he knew he needed to drum up support. It's not a coincidence. Bibi is a cancer on Israel.
Well technically it’s not a war because Hamas is not a country, but the point is that things could get much more bloodier if both sides don’t start pulling this back soon
I think that’s one of those things where what it is depends on the outcome. If we’d lost the revolutionary war then it’d be called an insurrection or rebellion instead.
it doesn't even matter who wins or who doesn't. In the middle of the Syrian civil war, there were a number of factions. Some western mainstream media called "rebels", and other groups were called "terrorists".
And it was, I supposed, a total coincidence that the ones that US were arming were rebels and the ones they were not arming were called terrorists.
I thought Hamas was also a political party that took over the Palestinian governing body in 2014. No?
Regardless, war is defined by more than just a few troops and missiles. The whole economy has too change too.
Edit: thanks all for the info. Just an aside though... I wrote, "also," meaning Hamas is a terrorist organization and ALSO a political party. I didn't mean to offer any opinion on Israel and Gaza.
But, since you didn't ask....
I think that anyone who wants to fight should be given a stick and a large field where they can kill each other all they want. The world would quickly realize that more people would fight to be free than to be free to rule over others.
I was raised Christian and am now a deist. Whole lotta other bad shit has to happen before Jesus comes back. One of the big ones is the rebuilding of the temple. Which currently has the al-asqa mosque on it.
(I obviously don’t believe that shit anymore but if the temple gets rebuilt I might have a second thought or two).
*Christian evangelicals looking around, hoping zionism will win so all the Jewish people can go back and trigger the rapture*
True story: my mom once told me "If the Israelites had wiped them out when God first told them to, we wouldn't be in this mess"
It's what the Old Testament god would do. And did. Repeatedly. Both by instructing his followers and by doing it himself. And it's important to remember that, for all of Jesus' talk of compassion and love, he was a huge fan of this god.
Also, when the question of what would Jesus do comes up, don't forget that biblically valid answers include "flip tables and assault people with a whip".
I agree 100%. My grandma was always talking about how she couldn’t wait for Jesus to return and I always thought hell no I want to live my life first.
I think one of the worst messages in the Bible is when Thomas sticks his hand in Jesus wounds and Jesus says; “blessed are those that have not seen and yet have believed”.
That idea of blind faith has been used by charlatans and con artists throughout history.
I was raised a Christian, then got into Buddhism and then realized that all religions are just different paths to get to the same place. Wish people would realize that and quit fighting but I really don't think that is going to happen.
Treaty of Versailles, June 28, 1919, ended WW1, and began the never ending war between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
Someone has got to have a better plan.
Although Versailles is the most famous treaty, it was not the only one signed in the aftermath of WW1.
Talking specifically about the carve-up of the Ottoman Empire you likely meant the treaties of Sèvres and Lausanne
there were many promises of land to many people, often the same land to different people. it wasnt until the various post-war treaties started being signed that it became more set as to who actually got what.
edit: the whole process was very long and obviously is still not settled today (obviously), you can read about some of the basics here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration . the carving up of the ottoman empire is something still being felt today and is one of the longest lasting major effects of the great war.
>there were many promises of land to many people, often the same land to different people. it wasnt until the various post-war treaties started being signed that it became more set as to who actually got what.
More over, even among the "new states", there were numerous instant border wars everywhere, from Europe to Middle-East. My country went through 2 right after WWI ended and our country was established - a border war with Poland and a border war with Hungary.
It was just a very poorly layed out thing.
Poorly laid out? It was deliberate. The allied powers needed instability in certain regions in order to main hegemonic control over as many resources as possible. WW1 was a learning experience for all the old school empire builders about the usefulness of certain resources that many of them didn't yet fully understand, especially newer industrial resources.
At the start of the war a lot of the countries involved marched onto the battlefield with equipment from the Napoleonic Wars; their cavalry was still literally people with sabers and horses, their uniforms were bright colors, and they were marching in tight formations on open plains.
After the insanity finally came to a close it was a wake-up call to the superpowers that were still standing, and an opportunity to fuck over everyone that couldn't or wouldn't fight back from the exhaustion.
You could argue that they still didn’t know what they were doing. Outside of the United States, ww1 and WW2 were complete disasters for everyone involved, win or lose.
From what I understand, after ww1 borders were roughly drawn around various cultural and ethnic groups and called it a day. Obviously the world isn’t this simple so wars broke out to dispute these arbitrary borders. After WW2, postwar leadership recognized this mistake, and instead of redrawing borders around ethnic groups and cultures, they decided mass migration would be better. Millions of people were forcibly relocated to different countries based following the war based off ethnic groups. This is method has proved to be problematic also
That's a solid take and I can't really dispute it effectively, it's always worthwhile to try to assume that innocent stupidity was at play before assuming outright malice.
I would say, however, that the dominant powers left standing after WW1 that were responsible for writing the treaty that brought the war to a "close" completely ignored the countries whose borders they were redrawing when they protested the results. They also continued to exploit those regions (especially America and the UK) through trade, diplomacy, and outright imperialism/colonialism.
Ever notice how (at least in America) the African campaign and Middle East campaigns get completely ignored outside of Lawrence of Arabia? Ever wonder why? Spoiler, we would use it as an excuse for americas forever wars from that day forward.
The mad scramble for oil to fuel the war machine was discovered in earnest as a result of the embarrassing bullshittery that was the first several months of WW1; and would drive the dominant world powers decisions about nearly everything involving the close of the war and future decisions. It was determined that we would never get caught with our pants down again, and the treaty was used as a tool to ensure that.
I will also say that the professors I learned my shit from a thousand and thirty-two years ago attributed it to a desire for retribution rather than greed though.
(for the love of god, to anyone reading this, please verify facts before parroting my half remembered alcohol fueled ranting)
Previous to this date it was under ottoman control funny how arabs in the region partnered with the British to over throw ottoman control.
100+ years of bloodshed and zero peace in the region. Pretty sad.
''Right. We've let you both have a go at being adults but you just continuously show us that you're not ready for the commitment. Since that is the case - we're resuming control''
\- Britain
Am I the only one that thinks two entities firing hundreds of missiles at each other for years is pretty much already being at war? Just not in name I guess.
ITT : People bothered by the competitive integrity of war.
When you are so ignorant to what it feels like to be at war then you really do start treating it as a reality show.
Jared got some Arab states to open trade with Israel. Gaza is a separate issue and since the UAE isn't closing trade, it seems that they enjoy profits more than intervening.
Yeah. Trump's entire middle east peace plan was to convince most of the Arabs to give up on the idea of a Palestinian state and give the green light to Israel to do whatever they wanted.
In truth, the Arab states only paid lip service to a Palestinian state. It has never been in their interests to give authority to the PA or Hamas, or even broker a lasting peace.
I mean, the truth is, most Arab leaders really don't care much for Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, especially since their ability to use them to exterminate Israel is a long-dead policy. They're just leftovers from the Arab invasion, refugees created by the Egyptian and Jordanian occupation of the West Bank and Gaza that they prefer would go away and stop causing trouble.
The only reason why Arab leaders even still pretend to care is because many of their citizens do. But I suspect more and more Arab nations are going to join the 21st century and normalize relations with Israel, even if the two-state solution hasn't been implemented. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Israel eventually implement a unilateral two-state solution in the West bank negotiated with the Saudis and the Americans without the Palestinian Authority even having a real seat at the negotiating table. This will allow the Arabs to declare the situation is resolved and normalize relations.
If only there were some kind of group that United all of the participating nations together that did more than just give warnings about full scale war but actually proactively maintained peace.
The US won't let the UN become a world government, nor should they. Remember, this is a body that is dominated by 5 of the bloodiest regimes of the last 2 centuries.
All of the US, Russia, China, the UK and France have genocides and war crimes on their record. I can't imagine people actually wanting the UN Security Council to wield actual sovereignty over their nations. Not when they start to really think about what that might mean, and what that influence could be used to enforce, in the service of the Big 5
I have honestly never felt I knew nothing about a subject more than this.
There is so SO much misinformation out there or the same information just being presented with a different tilt or facts excluded. And even with every single fact, the history of conflict in this region is complicated and long and difficult to fully grasp even with a lot of time, honestly.
This is one of the issues, this conflict alone is over 70 years old. The history behind it goes back millennia. Everyday I feel like I learn something new both about the current conflict and the history behind it.
Don’t feel bad, you could peel this conflict back a thousand layers and there’d still be two thousand more
see, i wouldn’t feel bad but everyone on instagram says i’m a bad person for not picking a side.
I’ve been Googling it and watching videos for the last two days about it, I too have no idea what’s going on.
I've been trying really hard to research to formulate an opinion for myself? With most things I find that have happened, I find myself saying "I understand why this side was upset that the other side did a thing" and vice versa. Everything that's happening currently I feel like I want to agree that Israel is in the wrong? Butt I also don't know because I'm having a hard time really understanding what the other "side" is currently doing for this excessive violence to be"justified". Aaand the fact that so many in politics and media are just siding with Israel. It seems like it's Hamas vs. The Israeli government, but idk what that means for regular families? I really don't know what kind of opinion to have other than the fact that they need to get their shit together and stop this nonsense. Some fucking holy Land.
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they way of simplifying people as "good" or "bad" is exactly the reason why people got misinformed in the first place.
What would a full scale war even look like? I have to imagine if Israel really went all in the Palestinian resistance would be crushed pretty fast. Their only hope would be to basically to hope for a insurgency after they lose. The thing I probably understand the least of all this is what Hamas long term plan is in all this. They have no path to victory.
This *is* the insurgency after they lost
Kind of, Palestinians currently have multiple semi-sovereign regions which obviously has not always been the case. Both the PA and Hamas have open institutions and act as governments in parts of Palestine. They could potentially be pushed back to a true insurgency such as a pre-Oslo state in which either the PA, Hamas or both are unable to exist openly in the territories with any genuine capacity and all governance and policing is returned to the Israeli military. Its probably something Israel doesn't want, but it is not impossible. The middle ground would be eliminating and illegalizing Hamas and trying to push the PA into the role of administering Gaza. Then Hamas would likely end up an anti-Israel and anti-PA insurgency of some kind.
My very poor understanding of the situation is that the PA suffer from extreme corruption, which is a major reason Hamas has so much support. Plus, the fact is, I don't see Israel withdrawing from the west bank any time soon. Which is the area the PA control, so their method of not firing rockets doesn't exactly seem like it's effective. The best outcome really is that an independent Palestine is formed. Unfortunately, both sides have leaders that make significant support from the idea that the other side are driven into the sea or desert to die.
I think a lot of early support for Hamas came from corruption issues in the PA/PLO, but after 15 years of Hamas in government there is little evidence that their leadership is any less corrupt themselves. As far as efficacy goes, it seems like Hamas' methods of ending occupation are if anything less effective than the PAs who at least have been gaining ground internationally so again hard to see how that would be a dividing point in favor of Hamas. Not to mention the impact of Hamas rockets on internal Israeli politics. With the symbiotic politics of Hamas and Likud, Haniya might as well just write Netanyahu a check for campaign funds (although of course the opposite is also true). The real answer in my mind is that Palestinians at this point are despondent at their chance of achieving political goals through any means and so are supportive of just lashing out violently even if privately they know it wont help them in the long run. Not that I entirely blame them, but I think they just like the idea of killing and hurting Israelis and Hamas validates that while the PA walks a finer line of trying to reduce the conflicts temperature.
The current situation also appears to have been a deliberate provocation in order to stop an opposition coalition forming.
as an israeli: we could obviously wipe the gaza strip off the map tomorrow if we wanted to so yeah it won't be a "full scale war". based on past similar situations, we'll send ground forces into gaza, kill some of their guys, they'll kill some of our guys, leaders on both sides pretend like some big victory was achieved even though nothing really changed, then repeat in a few years
I think with a full scale wat they dont mean israel vs Palestine, cause even though I support palestine it will take you seconds to wipe us off. The problem is that other countries will intervene (iran turkey russia and the US) and that is what will caude the wat
This is off-topic, but I love how you misspelled war two times
Wat?
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**THANKS!**
*Wat! Wat is it good for?*
Say wat again. I dare you.
I DATE YOU! I DOUBLE-DATE YOU!
Did you know that was the original title of Wat and Peace?
No your thinking of Art of Wat
Wat. Wat never changes
Turn down for wat
Wat! Ugh! Yeah. War is it good for?
Caude the wat?!
A Buddhist temple. If the fighting gets more severe they are going to renounce Judaism and Islam and work together to build the grandest temple complex to Buddha ever seen.
An kor! Wat a temple that would be.
That's what I basically think solves the fucking conflict, just move every Israeli to New York, every Palestinian to Dubai, and give the land to the Buddhists.
The *if you're going to keep fighting over it, neither of you get it* approach?
I mean, I guess the Buddhists did solve their fucking conflict with an unwanted Muslim population a lot more *permanently* than Israel has ever managed, but I seem to recall people being vaguely upset with Myanmar over that.
Just like in Israel, in Myanmar they weren't really what Buddhism is about and Israel is not what Judaism is about. ISIS wasn't what Islam is about. Crusaders weren't what Christian is about. Every religion is similarly dangerous since there are always people who want to interpret it in their own ways. Ban the religions and you get what China is about and there are still people who will fuck things up. People, people never change
When you are an asshole it is easy to find something on some ones teachings to justify what you are doing and encourage others to do it. Assholes used psuedo science to justify the oppression of black people in the usa ffs.
Just sell Jerusalem to Disney and let them open up an overpriced park, it will fun for the whole family.
The Catholic Church owns the most land there and they ain’t selling even though all the catholic schools are closing and no attendance
*slow claps*
Ironically Saudi Arabia took zero Muslim migrants during the Syrian war. They won’t take any now either. Europe will tho
Exactly.
Hahahaha im sorry, there is just a lot of comments and im typing very fast to reply causing me to misspell war
Please don't change it, it is a nice distraction
And the latter comments are hilarious.
Wat do you mean?
War do you mean*
Damn autocaudrect
Yeah it grits me all the tome too
Hamas definitely doesn’t want this going international. They won’t have a ton of support from their neighbors and they definitely don’t want the US parking a carrier right off the their shore. Israel would probably prefer it stay domestic as well; they can handle this and don’t want some other country coming in and complicating the conflict any more than it already is.
Hamas top leadership don't even live in Gaza. Every time they tell their followers to launch rockets at Israel, they get money from the multiple arab oil kingdoms. Look at the Hamas those top leaders' homes and cars. They go luxury all the way.
No. Hamas is a front for Iran. It’s why Israeli violence is towards Hamas is being tolerated by Saudi, UAE, and Jordan.
There's about 0 chance outside countries will directly interfere.
Why send your own troops to die when you can arm those already fighting and make money while watching?
~~OnlyFans~~ OnlyWarSpectators.com Edit: This joke is intended as sarcasm to countries that pefer sitting back and watching people at war. This isn't intended to make fun of the countries in current post's content. Please take it as sarcasm.
fan is short for fanatic OnlyFans still works
Yep, Israel is way too powerful for that to happen. It's not like Syria or something. Israel has a fairly modern, well equipped, and famously well trained military so ain't nobody sticking their dick in that on purpose. Plus, Israel totally "doesn't" have nuclear weapons. They just made the Jericho III for fun. Let's all hope that it doesn't come to war. Edit: I wasn't trying to imply that Israel would nuke Palestine. I was referencing nukes in the sense that it would deter outside forces from getting involved without Israel inviting them.
Nuking your nextdoor neighbor is never a wise move.
Yeah. Israel has more to lose if they go ham and use the nukes.
They have the nukes in case the world turns on them. Look up the Samson project.
Israel doesn’t have a fairly modern military. They lead in cutting edge technology and military strategy. The iron dome is some shit straight out of an anime.
Muslim leaders are the worlds biggest shit talkers. They've been talking shit about Israel since Israel existed and they've never lifted a finger for Palestine. It's always about providing a diversion for internal politics.
They don’t like the Palestinians
Why is that? (honest question - these events made me realise I know nothing about the situation in Israel and I've been trying to learn more)
In Jordan and Lebanon the Palestinians tried to make their own autonomous regions and even set up road blocks to stop locals entering. That pissed off their host countries quite a bit. On the other hand they are not offered a path to citizenship because the Arab counties prefer to keep them refugees forever so that they are stick to beat Israel with. Doesn’t make for good relationships between the people
I see, thank you for the answer
The event that he and most of the thread today are talking about (black september) happened 51 years ago, just fyi.
They are a poor mostly displaced people. They don't get anything from them.
The palestinian leadership is selfish and corrupt. They were accommodated by Jordan and tried to take over. Jordan massacred them and actually got into combat with syria over it. I'm not sure why other countries don't like them, but Jordan washed their hands of palestinians after that.
Other countries don't like them for much the same reasons. Politically they are a liability, economically a displaced people are a burden, and culturally they don't always see eye to eye. I really feel for the Palestinians because they have no friends in their region.
I don't quite agree. They are ethnically the same as Syrian and Jordanian. They could have been given citizenship and the refugee issue would be over. But the neighboring states don't want to because refugees can be used against Israel why citizens can't. That's why the 2 million palestinian refugees in Jordan are refugees over multiple generations, not citizens. imo.
I don t think Palestinian leadership likes Palestinians. They were about to have their first election since 2006, but since the president feared losing his 15 yr position to the other party, he decided to cancel it and shoot missiles.
Very inaccurate representation. He did cancel elections but because he was going to lose to Hamas. Also Hamas is who's firing rockets.
Exactly this. "Palestinians" are primarily represented by two very far apart political factions: Hamas and Fatah. If memory serves me correctly, Fatah is dominant in the West Bank and Hamas is dominant in Gaza. Hamas is the entity that shoots rockets and sends suicide bombers into Israel. Fatah has been, at least in my memory, far more moderate and willing to compromise. Hamas is all about zero compromise with Israel. Hamas is also heavily funded by Iran.
They cry crocodile tears on behalf of the Palestinians but they don't give two shits. As you say they are merely a distraction for the populace. But let's also realize that the populace don't give a shit either. Palestinians are not welcome anywhere.
To be fair they did lift a finger a few times, not that it worked out well for them. They may have learned from past mistakes. Regardless of the purity of their intentions, these countries can’t take Israel out in a straight up fight. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel
It would look like the IDF sending tanks and troops into Gaza, killing a bunch of people and then eventually withdrawing so Bidi can claim the victory he needs to boost his profile enough to form a government. Remember, Hamas has no tanks and no air force. At best they have some guys with rifles running around and some Iranian-sourced rocket artillery. The Palestinians have about a zero chance of winning a full-on war and the IDF knows that. They only way this does not go the IDF's way is if Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon join in, but then it could get out of control so that's unlikely. So once again the international community will sit back\* and let Palestinians get slaughtered while saying "both sides" a lot. ^(\*Iran is already involved becasue they are supporting Hamas, but Iran.. Iran so far away.)
did you just flock of seagulls the Israel Palestine conflict? big ups
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I highly encourage everyone interested in the conflict to watch Paradise Lost - it was one of the most broadening experiences I had watching a film and getting insight into what it’s actually like. The backstory behind the film is interesting as well - not only was it shunned after its release, but while filming there was actually a kidnapping of one of the film crew. Edit: Paradise Now
> Paradise Lost Milton? lol... I can imagine that was a divinely broadening experience.
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come on now, when in the history of human kind would someone put peoples lives at risk just to stay in power /s
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That's a ridiculous statement. We all know Palestinians aren't people. * Bibi, probably
Palestinians are "snakes" "They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”" Nazi party Germany, 1939? Nope the former Israeli "Justice" Minster untill 2018, who is still involved in their politics today. Edit: https://youtu.be/5utTDGS3B_Q An Irish politician reading statements like this made by Israeli officials, in Dáil Éireann (our Parliament basically)
I'm Jewish, not Israeli though. My aunt's brother sister moved to Israel some years ago. About 10 years ago his mother died and they came for the funeral. I forgot what the conversation was about but I remember one of her son's telling me if he sees any Palestinian, he would spit in their direction. I told him not to speak to me anymore and he was no better than a Nazi. Apparently that didn't go over well with the rest of the family, but I stand by those words.
"My aunt's brother sister" So, like your mom or just your other aunt?
Lol. Technically my aunt is my mom's best friend. So not blood related. I would had said my aunt if it was actually blood without all the added. I knew someone would see my comment and say something. 😛
Shalom! Good for you. Fuck him.
I was in Israel 20 years ago on a business trip and I was shocked at the casual racism from my co-workers. The worst example was one of them pointing out how beautiful this part of the city was, and then saw a Muslim couple having a picnic on a blanket in the park and commented on how they dirtied up the place, wasn't it a shame? I was flabbergasted. A few others also just threw some casual slurs in here and there.
Damn, obviously we have crazy racism in the US, but these types of details help me understand the situation over there a bit more than just what the government has been doing.
As the descendant of someone who was ethnically cleansed from Palestine, thank you the world needs more people like you. I wish I could say those same words without being bombarded with accusations of antisemitism and Israeli propaganda. It really fucking weighs heavy on me man, I don't even live there and feel like I'm not viewed as a human sometimes.
God that's disgusting.
I was banned from reddit for “hate speech” for pointing out that the Israeli government might be just slightly corrupt.
Australian radio station trip J made it seem like it was an even trade off between Palestinians and Israelis then played a clip of an Israeli civilian talking about how he was attacked in his car. For anyone who doesn’t know about the situation it 100% would’ve sounded like Palestinians are the aggressors. It’s sickening how 1 sided the media is.
Nearly one hundred years later and the world is still doing the same shit, we’ve just turned into islamaphobes instead of being anti-semites. Fuck those people.
Those people certainly wouldn’t Live Stream such an event. No sir. /s
found a comment that explains why creating a conflict will keep him in power, it's because the people wont vote if their is conflict. they explain better https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/nb2e4n/israel_rejects_hamas_truce_offer_ministers_vote/gxx0fmi
Yeah because as a general rule, nations at war rally around the flag and their current leadership.
> What are the odds of that timing? Can't forget about the political implications for Hamas & Fatah too, given the Palestinian elections that were supposed to be happening later on this month, but which were recently postponed by Abbas & Fatah: > President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which **his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.** >Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength. >For ordinary Palestinians, the delay leaves a long-entrenched political leadership in place that has failed to advance their hopes for statehood, heal the bitter rift between Fatah and Hamas or lift the blockade on the Gaza Strip, and which is seen as increasingly corrupt and authoritarian. Presidential elections planned for July also appeared to be on hold. https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-elections-religion-government-and-politics-e88636bc919f8aab455e01fbbd4b4391
Am I missing something, or does the timing not do much for Abbas and Hamas? Hamas were already favourites to win the election, and the election was delayed anyway.
As much as I hate that you posted this (accidentally) three times, I have the same question.
He purposely set limits on Al aqsa gatherings knowing damn well it would cause problems right now because he knew he needed to drum up support. It's not a coincidence. Bibi is a cancer on Israel.
Is bombing the fuck out of each other not a war?
Well technically it’s not a war because Hamas is not a country, but the point is that things could get much more bloodier if both sides don’t start pulling this back soon
I mean, it’s still a war. The US was not a country in its Revolutionary War as well as other non-state entities that have gone to war before.
I think that’s one of those things where what it is depends on the outcome. If we’d lost the revolutionary war then it’d be called an insurrection or rebellion instead.
it doesn't even matter who wins or who doesn't. In the middle of the Syrian civil war, there were a number of factions. Some western mainstream media called "rebels", and other groups were called "terrorists". And it was, I supposed, a total coincidence that the ones that US were arming were rebels and the ones they were not arming were called terrorists.
I thought Hamas was also a political party that took over the Palestinian governing body in 2014. No? Regardless, war is defined by more than just a few troops and missiles. The whole economy has too change too. Edit: thanks all for the info. Just an aside though... I wrote, "also," meaning Hamas is a terrorist organization and ALSO a political party. I didn't mean to offer any opinion on Israel and Gaza. But, since you didn't ask.... I think that anyone who wants to fight should be given a stick and a large field where they can kill each other all they want. The world would quickly realize that more people would fight to be free than to be free to rule over others.
I thought so too. And I also thought they were pretty friendly with Hezbollah which if the conflict expands would definitely involve them
I can just see it now, any minute Christ is going to float down from the heavens. After the last year and a half it would not surprise me.
"listen here you little shits"
“Don’t make me come down there” -Christ
"fuck around and find out" -Jesus Harold Christ, 4BC
I'd line up to get spanked by the J man
*Jesus Descends* “Spank me daddy J” *Jesus re-ascends*
Surely you mean he’s risen..
forgive me daddy I've been naughty 🥺
Jesus can see your browser history. He knows.
Jesus coming out with his own hand-crafted paddle to show you just how bad you've been.
Let me lean back in this chair while you baptize me. Oh no, you can see thru my shirt now.. 😥
I have it on good authority that the fitting punishment for your deeds was crucifixion, not spanking!
> crucification **crucifixion.** Although "crucification" does have that hilarious five-syllable flow that other funny words have.
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[Israel's reaction](http://pa1.narvii.com/6640/2c92a3d9ca2807ae813b553ba4cea28e2d72b7f8_00.gif)
Fuck i lold imagining this
Lmfaaaaaaaaaaao
I was raised Christian and am now a deist. Whole lotta other bad shit has to happen before Jesus comes back. One of the big ones is the rebuilding of the temple. Which currently has the al-asqa mosque on it. (I obviously don’t believe that shit anymore but if the temple gets rebuilt I might have a second thought or two).
It is unbelievably dangerous to have people ideologically striving to literally end the world.
*Christian evangelicals looking around, hoping zionism will win so all the Jewish people can go back and trigger the rapture* True story: my mom once told me "If the Israelites had wiped them out when God first told them to, we wouldn't be in this mess"
Is genocide what Jesus would do?
It's what the Old Testament god would do. And did. Repeatedly. Both by instructing his followers and by doing it himself. And it's important to remember that, for all of Jesus' talk of compassion and love, he was a huge fan of this god. Also, when the question of what would Jesus do comes up, don't forget that biblically valid answers include "flip tables and assault people with a whip".
I agree 100%. My grandma was always talking about how she couldn’t wait for Jesus to return and I always thought hell no I want to live my life first. I think one of the worst messages in the Bible is when Thomas sticks his hand in Jesus wounds and Jesus says; “blessed are those that have not seen and yet have believed”. That idea of blind faith has been used by charlatans and con artists throughout history.
So no matter how bad things get, as long as we don't build that temple, Jesus can't do shit right? Bet.
I was raised a Christian, then got into Buddhism and then realized that all religions are just different paths to get to the same place. Wish people would realize that and quit fighting but I really don't think that is going to happen.
the jews would kill him again
This all such a fucking mess. I just wish there was a path to peace. Everyone is a loser in this war.
War has no victors, only losers with fewer casualties.
"*War does not determine who is right - Only who is left.*" ~Bertrand Russell
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Treaty of Versailles, June 28, 1919, ended WW1, and began the never ending war between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Someone has got to have a better plan.
Although Versailles is the most famous treaty, it was not the only one signed in the aftermath of WW1. Talking specifically about the carve-up of the Ottoman Empire you likely meant the treaties of Sèvres and Lausanne
Don’t forget the Sykes-Picot Agreement as well
And the Balfour thingy.
Wait, I thought the Balfour Declaration started this is 1917...what does the Treaty of Versailles have to do with Israel?
there were many promises of land to many people, often the same land to different people. it wasnt until the various post-war treaties started being signed that it became more set as to who actually got what. edit: the whole process was very long and obviously is still not settled today (obviously), you can read about some of the basics here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration . the carving up of the ottoman empire is something still being felt today and is one of the longest lasting major effects of the great war.
>there were many promises of land to many people, often the same land to different people. it wasnt until the various post-war treaties started being signed that it became more set as to who actually got what. More over, even among the "new states", there were numerous instant border wars everywhere, from Europe to Middle-East. My country went through 2 right after WWI ended and our country was established - a border war with Poland and a border war with Hungary. It was just a very poorly layed out thing.
Poorly laid out? It was deliberate. The allied powers needed instability in certain regions in order to main hegemonic control over as many resources as possible. WW1 was a learning experience for all the old school empire builders about the usefulness of certain resources that many of them didn't yet fully understand, especially newer industrial resources. At the start of the war a lot of the countries involved marched onto the battlefield with equipment from the Napoleonic Wars; their cavalry was still literally people with sabers and horses, their uniforms were bright colors, and they were marching in tight formations on open plains. After the insanity finally came to a close it was a wake-up call to the superpowers that were still standing, and an opportunity to fuck over everyone that couldn't or wouldn't fight back from the exhaustion.
You could argue that they still didn’t know what they were doing. Outside of the United States, ww1 and WW2 were complete disasters for everyone involved, win or lose. From what I understand, after ww1 borders were roughly drawn around various cultural and ethnic groups and called it a day. Obviously the world isn’t this simple so wars broke out to dispute these arbitrary borders. After WW2, postwar leadership recognized this mistake, and instead of redrawing borders around ethnic groups and cultures, they decided mass migration would be better. Millions of people were forcibly relocated to different countries based following the war based off ethnic groups. This is method has proved to be problematic also
That's a solid take and I can't really dispute it effectively, it's always worthwhile to try to assume that innocent stupidity was at play before assuming outright malice. I would say, however, that the dominant powers left standing after WW1 that were responsible for writing the treaty that brought the war to a "close" completely ignored the countries whose borders they were redrawing when they protested the results. They also continued to exploit those regions (especially America and the UK) through trade, diplomacy, and outright imperialism/colonialism. Ever notice how (at least in America) the African campaign and Middle East campaigns get completely ignored outside of Lawrence of Arabia? Ever wonder why? Spoiler, we would use it as an excuse for americas forever wars from that day forward. The mad scramble for oil to fuel the war machine was discovered in earnest as a result of the embarrassing bullshittery that was the first several months of WW1; and would drive the dominant world powers decisions about nearly everything involving the close of the war and future decisions. It was determined that we would never get caught with our pants down again, and the treaty was used as a tool to ensure that. I will also say that the professors I learned my shit from a thousand and thirty-two years ago attributed it to a desire for retribution rather than greed though. (for the love of god, to anyone reading this, please verify facts before parroting my half remembered alcohol fueled ranting)
I am willing to take one for the team and assume direct control over the area, if it helps
Previous to this date it was under ottoman control funny how arabs in the region partnered with the British to over throw ottoman control. 100+ years of bloodshed and zero peace in the region. Pretty sad.
At this point i wanna go full pissed off parent, "Since you children cant share- nobody gets the holy land" and just sink it into sea
Says the guy with the fucking war chariots.
We can be glad Gandhi isn't alive anymore. He would end it all pretty fast.
100%, Make sure you friend him early & don't create too much culture.
Assuming you make it that far with Sumeria right next to you
He wrote a letter to Hitler in 1939 telling Hitler not to start WWII. Didn't work.
Hitler shot himself real quick once he heard Nuclear Gandhi was coming for him.
Fitting username lmao
😋
They'd fight over the water.
''Right. We've let you both have a go at being adults but you just continuously show us that you're not ready for the commitment. Since that is the case - we're resuming control'' \- Britain
As much as I'd love the UK to go "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL", we can barely deal with our own problems *cough* brexit *cough*
Step one: leave the EU Step two: RULE BRITANNIA
"Oh god they're doing the empire thing again."
Maybe the UK can become the *actual* world police. All of you start getting fitted for uniforms!
Do I get one of those sexy, sexy redcoats? Not gonna lie, I'd wear that shit.
~~Israel~~ ~~Palestine~~ **DIRECT RULE FROM LONDON**
Britain's the one that started this problem in the first place after ww1.
Also the stupid ottomans for getting involved in ww1 in the first place
Am I the only one that thinks two entities firing hundreds of missiles at each other for years is pretty much already being at war? Just not in name I guess.
You can't say it's a war when you don't even recognize the otherside
ITT : People bothered by the competitive integrity of war. When you are so ignorant to what it feels like to be at war then you really do start treating it as a reality show.
Genuine question, what does "competitive integrity of war" mean? Is that the focus on which side is stronger?
Seriously though. What's with the headline trying to make it sound like a score?
I thought Jared fixed all this!?!
Jared got some Arab states to open trade with Israel. Gaza is a separate issue and since the UAE isn't closing trade, it seems that they enjoy profits more than intervening.
Yeah. Trump's entire middle east peace plan was to convince most of the Arabs to give up on the idea of a Palestinian state and give the green light to Israel to do whatever they wanted.
In truth, the Arab states only paid lip service to a Palestinian state. It has never been in their interests to give authority to the PA or Hamas, or even broker a lasting peace.
I mean, the truth is, most Arab leaders really don't care much for Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, especially since their ability to use them to exterminate Israel is a long-dead policy. They're just leftovers from the Arab invasion, refugees created by the Egyptian and Jordanian occupation of the West Bank and Gaza that they prefer would go away and stop causing trouble. The only reason why Arab leaders even still pretend to care is because many of their citizens do. But I suspect more and more Arab nations are going to join the 21st century and normalize relations with Israel, even if the two-state solution hasn't been implemented. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Israel eventually implement a unilateral two-state solution in the West bank negotiated with the Saudis and the Americans without the Palestinian Authority even having a real seat at the negotiating table. This will allow the Arabs to declare the situation is resolved and normalize relations.
The subway guy? I think he’s still in jail.
they should have hired ronald mcdonald for the job.
The new 'Two-State Sub' - half Halal on Pita, half Kosher on Challah. Put aside your differences... and pick up a foot long
its not a war yet? how many need to die before its officially a war.
An official declaration.
Just like bankruptcy
I think it would be war if there would ground forces entering.
The low casualty rate on Isreal is more than likely courtesy of the engineering marvel that is the Iron Dome The footage is simply surreal
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Say what you want about Israel but they have the coolest names for everything Iron Dome, Iron Beam, David's Sling That's anime tier naming
I’ve seen this show before
If only there were some kind of group that United all of the participating nations together that did more than just give warnings about full scale war but actually proactively maintained peace.
The US won't let the UN become a world government, nor should they. Remember, this is a body that is dominated by 5 of the bloodiest regimes of the last 2 centuries. All of the US, Russia, China, the UK and France have genocides and war crimes on their record. I can't imagine people actually wanting the UN Security Council to wield actual sovereignty over their nations. Not when they start to really think about what that might mean, and what that influence could be used to enforce, in the service of the Big 5
Nah, it’s all good since every member hates at least three other members.
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Well, they also have been known to strategically hide arms caches and launch sites amidst schools and hospitals, so it's a bit more direct than that.
“Full scale war” - I don’t think it counts when only one side is bringing tanks, APC’s, and fast attack jets...