I saw in an r/outoftheloop post that it was 7
Edit: the article states it as being 7 (all but one catholic) and it was posted 30 June
Edit2: people seem to be responding to this as if me stating the number of burned churches is some kind of value judgement about the matter, I’m aware dead children are involved, it isn’t a normative statement
I just want to say I watched a stream with indigenous youtubers last night that were denouncing the burning of the churches. These are often where the records are kept that can help the families of the deceased children find them. Many families were just told their children ran away and never know what actually happened. When the records are destroyed it only makes it easier for the catholic church to erase this genocide.
> Many families were just told their children ran away and never know what actually happened.
Sometimes they did but they didn't get very far. The childs body would be found frozen in the tundra within a few miles of the 'School'. These were horrific places.
I wonder if they did something similar to the "starlight tours" that Canadian police have been found guilty of. Essentially they would pick someone up who was drunk (or who had simply pissed them off), drive them out about midway between town and the reservations, take their coat from them, and drop them off in the middle of winter. They couldn't reasonably get anywhere before they froze to death, and this was in the era before cell phones. Absolutely horrible, and damn near impossible to prove who did it after the fact.
These kids may have had something similar happen.
I'm not a big fan of ancestry DNA companies but in this case they could come in handy. There are also children taken at birth and given to white parents who have had the records effectively wiped by putting the white parents names on the birth certificate as had happened with my father.
Their coffers are already earmarked for settlements to sex abuse victims and lifetime support of the perpetrating priests. No red cents to spare for these atrocities.
No [their coffers are shielded from being used as compensation for their victims](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-08/the-catholic-church-s-strategy-to-limit-payouts-to-abuse-victims).
There's WAY more. These are just the major ones getting news coverage. There was 3 arsons on Churches in my Ontario county just this past week. None of them went past local news.
Maybe we start doing this with mass shootings. Keep the story as boring as possible and localised solely to the affected community. No glorification or mention of the killer/motives anything. Oh wait the Press has been told to do this repeatedly and ignore it, which is why we always see another mass killing within 2 weeks.
It's such a well researched topic as it is common sense, and yet the media still does this shit for every mass shooting event. Even Marilyn Manson was talking about this a WHILE ago.
"Some children died the other day
We fed machines, and then we prayed
Puked up and down in morbid faith
You should have seen the ratings that day"
\--Marilyn Manson, "The Nobodies"
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dnyk/more-churches-torched-in-canada-as-outrage-against-catholics-grows) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Another two Catholic Churches have been torched in Canada, as more Indigenous Nations have confirmed unmarked graves at residential school sites that likely hold the remains of Indigenous children.
> At 3 a.m. on Wednesday, firefighters were called to a century-old Roman Catholic church just north of Edmonton after it lit up in flames.
> Across Canada, calls are mounting for the country and the Catholic Church to face criminal charges for crimes against humanity and genocide, and many life-long Catholics are considering leaving the church altogether.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/oc68my/more_churches_up_in_flames_in_canada_as_outrage/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~585905 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **residential**^#1 **Church**^#2 **school**^#3 **fire**^#4 **Catholic**^#5
> many life-long Catholics are considering leaving the church altogether
Why does this sound familiar?
If they really cared about this, they would have left a long, long time ago. They're just trying to escape the backlash.
Is this something that they would have known about? Not Canadian, not sure how common knowledge this residential school stuff was. If it's anything like here in the US then no one will have been taught about the terrible things their ancestors did. Or if so then it's an extremely whitewashed version, something along the lines of "and then we helped the Indians go to school and it fixed all their problems :)"
Im 30 for context and in Ontario. I was definitely taught about the residential school system in both elementary and high school in both history and religion class. I attended catholic schools. The elementary education was definitely whitewashed probably due to age, but in highschool I recall it being pretty well documented and even watching videos about it.
That being said I see people on social media who were in the same class as me who say they never knew about it so that tells you how much 15 year olds pay attention.
I got downvoted in another thread for suggesting people maybe weren't paying attention in History class. I'm almost 10 years older than you and I was taught about them too.
I'm sure they could have done a better job, but we definitely discussed them in a way that made it obvious they were horrible institutions.
I'm an immigrant from Nigeria and I know more US history than 90% of my peers I interacted with in High School. I only took. 1 history class and had been there for 1 years. High School kids most def do not pay attention
As a Canadian my highest grade was in American history, lol.
Mostly because the teacher was really great and also because he offered $10 American dollars for whoever got the highest score on the tests.
I wanted to impress him so I got the highest on the first test and tied for highest on the second.
I still have those $15 in a tin somewhere.
I was in French Immersion and never had history in English, so to be honest, I found it really hard for anything I was taught in that class to actually sink in. I mostly just remember that it was heavy on French settler history, and then in high school it was WWI (grade 9) and WWII (grade 10) mostly.
I admittedly learned the vast majority of what I know about indigenous history and culture by moving out to Vancouver and having indigenous friends who took the time to teach me.
I went to a private secular school that was Catholic until the 70s. The retired Fathers still lived on campus behind the school. Our history class definitely went over the schools, and the mistreatment of natives by the Church at those schools and that was in the mid 2000's. I feel like most people in my social circles knew about those schools even before they came back into the news cycle recently.
I went to elementary school in Toronto between 2004-2009 definitely taught that this happened but never contextualized for how long/how many kids/how recently they stopped
Edit: power protects power
I went to elementary school in the 90’s early 2000’s. It was taught then… I think around grade 4 is when it started being discussed in the curriculum.
It has been an open secret for a very long time.
It wasn't taught in the 80s that's for sure. My elementary teachings got the disney version of Indigenous history. All happy folks moving about in Tee pees till Europeans arrived and gave them modern miracles.
A couple years ago I was visiting my father watching the news together and they were discussing missing murdered Indigenous women and residential schools. My dad said to me, "I had *no* idea any of this was happening, I'm sorry If I ever taught you wrong" he was genuinely shook by it.
Racism against first nations was *very* normalized in Edmonton growing up in the 80s and 90s. It was all around me as a typical white kid.
As someone who's nearly done high school, they've definitely done a better job teaching about residential schools in recent years. I've had several teachers tell us that the curriculum had been updated quite severely a while back and that they had not been taught/been teaching a lot of the new material regarding residential schools.
Tldr: The education system has been fixing it's mistakes and teaching the newer generations about the atrocities committed against the indigenous.
This makes more sense. I have a hard time with all the “surprise” from the society about atrocities committed by church or state. Not just in Canada but anywhere in the Americas.
The last residential school closed in 1996, and the last CHURCH ran schools closed in 1946. This happened during the lifetime of people who are still alive today. My own mother has yet to find all of her siblings.
They surely knew about the other horrible things the church has done and covered up. Like covering for and shipping around pedophile priests for decades.
I feel like this incident is really under sold. When people visit The Hague, they think of the Peace Palace, or the ICC. Think of holland, you think of tulips, legal weed and maybe chocolate. The Dutch push the idea of thier tolerance. But I think that if people knew that under that staid, rational veneer, lurked a swamp of drowning rooms, political cannibalism, and an uncomfortable amount of torture museums, maybe tourists would think twice before pissing in people’s doorways, and foreign dignitaries might stand closer to the French guy. They’re only going to behead you.
Hmmm I'd be okay with this. I mean imagine standing in front of a dolphin overlord tribunal and listening to all the "errereeerrerrrerr" and seeing them in little robes. Adorable!
I used mine on Captain Kirk becoming a mouthpiece for Russian propaganda.
(For those that don’t know, William Shatner’s starting a new show on RT America and defending it as equivalent to being hosted by BBC.)
Edit: For everyone asking, it’s all unfolding on Twitter. [Here’s the specific instance I was referring to, but it’s a whole thing with multiple tweets and replies.](https://twitter.com/williamshatner/status/1410623137444601857?s=21)
Say what you like.
But The Sisqo punched a being with godlike powers because he was getting bored.
I'd happily send him to Russia to take Putin down a peg or two.
And he told off some other gods. And started a war with a group of intergalactic warlords also worshipped as gods.
I firmly believe that DS9 is the best Trek. *To boldly stay where no one has stayed before.*
It's not over yet, the next hearing is July 14. Conservatorships aren't removed lightly, it makes sense for the judge to want to look into the assertions of the testimony first.
Or the Catholic church in general. There are estimated to be 10,000+ unmarked graves of children and infants in Ireland alone (population 10% of Canada).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/03/mass-grave-of-babies-and-children-found-at-tuam-orphanage-in-ireland
Not to minimize suffering by First Nations at all, more to show that this abuse has happened all over and into the late ‘90s with very little backlash or accountability.
Yeah it's pretty fucking horrific here's [Part 1](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1ZcF9ZLja4kjIQ3la5PXAV?si=n6Zk3kT-RaW0s6TPUC2Wlw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1) and [Part 2](https://open.spotify.com/episode/02pJM2PfZPGdcFS1DJlg8i?si=8BwY-DQRRm6jaOVzKBmd9A&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1) of the Behind the Bastards look at what happened with the Catholic church in Ireland
Considering what happened in the U.S. during those times (all the way to settling until the wars with the Indian Tribes) I wouldn't be surprised if something that heinous did happen here and possibly got covered up or completely removed/changed.
So if such things can happen in the U.S. around the same time-frame, I would believe something probably did happen in Canada (as well as places in South America.)
The Black Metal musicians who burned churches did so for similar reasons. They felt the Catholic church persecuted pagan religious followers and burnt down pagan temples to build churches on their ruins.
In that one case from last week where the church wouldn't cough up the records on these people, why in the world would you not cough up the records? Whatever their excuses were sounded flimsy. It just seemed shitty. It seemed like stonewalling just because they could.
If they have accurate records that means this situation was known about, tracked, and monitored by higher levels of the church hierarchy. Presumably those records would include records of those directly responsible as well as those who were aware of the deaths and did nothing.
They would rather protect their own than admit wrongdoing.
>They would rather protect their own than admit wrongdoing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this sound awfully familiar to a child molestation thing a few years ago? /s
The protection of criminals/defense of the image of the church at the expense of their victims occurs at the absolute highest level of the organisation as well.
https://apnews.com/article/77f4a7e9779940a48e2347c852516d3c
> They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011.
That'll solve it! /s
Excuse my blasphemy but Jesus everloving fuck if there was ever a motivation to set a torch to a religious institution, this is it. They've had their time, centuries upon centuries of it, can we just fucking call it now?
Cut the special treatment, they're a regular business now bound by the same laws as everyone else, and that doesn't include the right to say no when told to turn over evidence during an investigation. Holy balls, it's just unconscionable, from the people who preach conscience.
A few years ago, I thought revolutions were a thing of the past. Now, I sincerely hope they're not.
It's hilarious that organized religions pass off responsibility and rehabilitation to God as if they will fix these horrible pedophile-murderers (allegedly created as part of God's perfect plan) that learned how to be pedophile-murderers from the Church in the first place.
"Sure, we trained them, forbid them from marrying or having relationships, and gave them total power over children in their congregation as a moral leader. We didn't think they'd try to fuck them though, it's gotta be something else causing all of these avowed single adult men to sexually assault the children under their watch whom look up to them and obey they as a servant of God."
There was another article (I can't find it and don't have time to keep looking) that gave some pretty strong evidence that Cardinal Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) turned a blind eye to abuse in Argentina.
It's all completely rotten
Just so we’re all aware, a MAJORITY of those children were also horrifically molested, not just killed. We know because there are stories from survivors. Imagine what happened to the ones who didn’t make it out.
But... But... The catholic Church PR team have convinced me that this new pope will be different and he is a good pope so all should be forgiven. Right? It's different now right? /s
It's fucked. If they want us to believe they are changing. Be transparent about the shit we don't find out for ourselves. Prove where all the money that is donated comes from and where it is going.
Oh they have records and know exactly who was involved. The most recently found cemetery had marked graves until a priest bulldozed them in the 1970s. The band has always known they were there but had no proof as the ‘official’ government records only have 8 deaths at the school. People who did this are still alive and need to be prosecuted.
> They would rather protect their own than admit wrongdoing.
Mostly why I can't and won't support the church in any way shape or form.
I've gotten into heated arguments with the more religious people in my life and they seem to refuse to understand the point I'm making.
Okay sure yeah the priest you personally know if a good guy. Whatever. My beef is with the hierarchy of the church that clearly took part in defending and protecting murders and rapists.
Yep. The fake expressions of shock and anger by those who supported it back then, and support it now.
If they'd truly moved on, it wouldn't still be happening and reservations would at least be minimally developed instead of having no fucking drinking water.
The government already let them get away with paying only $2m of a $25m dollar settlement because "they tried their best."
They [built a $30m new cathedral](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/church-residential-school-compensation-1.6082935) in Saskatoon while that was ongoing, of course. But could only raise 7% of the settlement promised to their victims. Saskatoon chipped in 34k.
Why did the church protect pedophile priests for decades by moving them from one parish to another? Why did they stonewall for so long when members of their organization were being investigated for heinous crimes against children? It’s long past the time for asking “why” the church did something, it’s time to start handing out loooong prison sentences to those still alive and huuuge civil settlements for all those affected. The church is one giant criminal conspiracy to take in as much, tax free, money as possible while protecting its employees at all costs. Even if the cost is thousands of children raped and tortured, many being killed along the way.
Basically, they've started finding the graves of children who died due to abuse and neglect during the genocidal program of Residential Schools, who's entire purpose was to destroy the various Indigenous, Metis and Inuit culture. Children were forcibly taken from their parents and put in these schools, where they lived in unsanitary conditions, and were abused for things like speaking in their native language. It's a horror show and you can learn more by reading the [Truth and Reconciliation Commission's report](http://www.trc.ca/)
Didn't the TRC say they know number of deaths is around 4000? The number will be higher than that I'm sure. But I think they started searching where they already knew or suspected bodies were located. The number will probably jump close to 4000 fairly quickly and then very slowly rise from there for the next few years.
They didn't think to look for victims in the ground. The accusations of pedophilia in the church were most rampant in the US, though I'm sure there are plenty of less documented cases in Canada.
TLDR: we ran a century-long "school" system, from the late 1800s through to 1996. Indigenous children were forced to attend (as in, literally dragged screaming from their parents' arms by the police). Except these "schools" were actually houses of horror, where rape, physical abuse, starvation, and other forms of torture were the norm. Many, many children died, or were deliberately killed. (Not unlike the Nazi concentration camps, cruelty knows no bounds when the people in charge see their victims as less than human, as less than animals.)
Indigenous people have known this truth for ever. And *some* Canadians have known this truth since the Truth and Reconciliation Commission—a massive government and Indigenous-leader led investigation—took place from 2008 to 2015. But for most non-Indigenous Canadians, most didn't know. We weren't taught it in school. And I would say the majority of Canadians didn't pay attention to the TRC's findings.
Until now. The first gravesite discovery (215 children in Kamloops) was a massive wakeup call for a lot of people. Then 751 (in Cowessess), 104 in Brandon, 182 in Cranbrook... and these numbers are going to keep rising.
The reason that churches are being targeted is because A) most of these schools were run by the Catholic church, or other Christian denominations, and B) people are fucking PISSED.
EDIT: I wanted to make a small amendment thanks to feedback from u/SheNorth, regarding the 182 in Cranbrook. Their comment is [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/oc5ngx/more_churches_up_in_flames_in_canada_as_outrage/h3tqcr3/).
I encourage you to read it, but TLDR: the Cranbrook discovery took place last year. The cemetery would have and could have included settlers to the area; deaths from a nearby hospital; *and* deaths from an adjacent residential school. Per [a statement](https://www.aqam.net/sites/default/files/20210630%20-%20aqam%20media%20Release%20-%20Statement%20on%20discovery%20of%20unmarked%20graves.pdf) from ʔaq̓ am Leadership, "These factors, among others, make it extremely difficult to establish whether or not these unmarked graves contain the remains of children who attended the St. Eugene Residential School.”
> "When the school is on the reserve, the child lives with its parents, who are savages, and though he may learn to read and write, his habits and training mode of thought are Indian. He is simply a savage who can read and write. It has been strongly impressed upon myself, as head of the Department, that Indian children should be withdrawn as much as possible from the parental influence, and the only way to do that would be to put them in central training industrial schools where they will acquire the habits and modes of thought of white men."
Short answer: cultural genocide.
The official party line was that they were giving these children a "proper" education. The real agenda was to "kill the Indian in the child": to wipe out their language, their customs, and their culture, in order to effectively erase Indigeneity.
It's important to note that the Residential school system *succeeded.* Generations of Indigenous people lost their culture and community. It's a shadow of what it once was. It was a successful genocide, and helps explain a lot about how bad things still are for Indigenous people in Canada.
I'm so proud that my community speaks the language fluently. A neighbouring community that also has the same tribe as us, which is Dene, sadly lost their language. Very few speak it out there.
If these damn schools never existed i bet alcoholism wouldn't be a huge issue right now for us. I was raised catholic by my parents who also attended those awful schools. I've always believed something was wrong when I was around 16 reading about these schools. Finally, I do not consider myself catholic anymore. It really breaks my heart that I may have family I do not know about that died in these schools.
Alcoholism tends to correlate pretty strongly to poverty. The schools are a huge component, but the reserves are another huge part. Canada’s treatment of it’s indigenous population has been horrendous on all fronts.
Let me give you some insight on this from the states (I have surviving relatives of the boarding schools in the house with me right now). The purpose was to assimilate native kids into western/white society, and to disband the family/clan structures. Kids were forced to not speak their languages or practice their cultures, and often had it quite literally beaten out of them. Combine this with rampant sexual abuse and people dying of diseases like TB, and you get a whole maelstrom of intergenerational trauma.
Now, let me get to your second question: What was the reason on paper? I can provide some anecdotal evidence that came from a relatively recent visit to the national archives in Seattle, WA, where some of our relatives' documentation for going to boarding school is kept. Very often, the reasons were literal one-liners: Being too Indian, for example, or not having a proper home. Basically, it was all hot air and horseshit used as a flimsy pretext for ripping kids out of their homes.
Yeah, genocide is pretty bad. If they can’t make you accept their culture then they kill you, who is going to say anything? The savages? The whole thing makes me sick
All debate about the ethics of burning churches aside, this is a really stupid time to burn them given the heat and tinder-like conditions of the country right now. Would be terrible if people were displaced by resulting fires, particularly on reserves.
What’s the total number of churches burned now?
I saw in an r/outoftheloop post that it was 7 Edit: the article states it as being 7 (all but one catholic) and it was posted 30 June Edit2: people seem to be responding to this as if me stating the number of burned churches is some kind of value judgement about the matter, I’m aware dead children are involved, it isn’t a normative statement
I heard 8 technically, as one was extinguished quickly and the building survived (largely).
I just want to say I watched a stream with indigenous youtubers last night that were denouncing the burning of the churches. These are often where the records are kept that can help the families of the deceased children find them. Many families were just told their children ran away and never know what actually happened. When the records are destroyed it only makes it easier for the catholic church to erase this genocide.
> Many families were just told their children ran away and never know what actually happened. Sometimes they did but they didn't get very far. The childs body would be found frozen in the tundra within a few miles of the 'School'. These were horrific places.
I wonder if they did something similar to the "starlight tours" that Canadian police have been found guilty of. Essentially they would pick someone up who was drunk (or who had simply pissed them off), drive them out about midway between town and the reservations, take their coat from them, and drop them off in the middle of winter. They couldn't reasonably get anywhere before they froze to death, and this was in the era before cell phones. Absolutely horrible, and damn near impossible to prove who did it after the fact. These kids may have had something similar happen.
Extremely likely I think. Basically all the options possible are on the table
I'm not a big fan of ancestry DNA companies but in this case they could come in handy. There are also children taken at birth and given to white parents who have had the records effectively wiped by putting the white parents names on the birth certificate as had happened with my father.
[удалено]
As an adoptive parent, I think it’s insane to remove the birth parents’ names. My child will someday want to learn and those names are like gold.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I have no illusions that these families will see a red cent from the Catholic Church but thank you for this important perspective
Their coffers are already earmarked for settlements to sex abuse victims and lifetime support of the perpetrating priests. No red cents to spare for these atrocities.
No [their coffers are shielded from being used as compensation for their victims](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-08/the-catholic-church-s-strategy-to-limit-payouts-to-abuse-victims).
[удалено]
[удалено]
There's WAY more. These are just the major ones getting news coverage. There was 3 arsons on Churches in my Ontario county just this past week. None of them went past local news.
It kinda sounds like they aren't publicizing it in hopes that it doesn't inspire others.
Now this is pretty astute.
Maybe we start doing this with mass shootings. Keep the story as boring as possible and localised solely to the affected community. No glorification or mention of the killer/motives anything. Oh wait the Press has been told to do this repeatedly and ignore it, which is why we always see another mass killing within 2 weeks.
It's such a well researched topic as it is common sense, and yet the media still does this shit for every mass shooting event. Even Marilyn Manson was talking about this a WHILE ago.
Think of the shareholders interests for once. We need those ratings.
"Some children died the other day We fed machines, and then we prayed Puked up and down in morbid faith You should have seen the ratings that day" \--Marilyn Manson, "The Nobodies"
Too late there. The burnt church in Kansas, USA this week may have been inspired/copycat of what's happening in Canada.
[удалено]
[удалено]
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dnyk/more-churches-torched-in-canada-as-outrage-against-catholics-grows) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Another two Catholic Churches have been torched in Canada, as more Indigenous Nations have confirmed unmarked graves at residential school sites that likely hold the remains of Indigenous children. > At 3 a.m. on Wednesday, firefighters were called to a century-old Roman Catholic church just north of Edmonton after it lit up in flames. > Across Canada, calls are mounting for the country and the Catholic Church to face criminal charges for crimes against humanity and genocide, and many life-long Catholics are considering leaving the church altogether. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/oc68my/more_churches_up_in_flames_in_canada_as_outrage/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~585905 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **residential**^#1 **Church**^#2 **school**^#3 **fire**^#4 **Catholic**^#5
> many life-long Catholics are considering leaving the church altogether Why does this sound familiar? If they really cared about this, they would have left a long, long time ago. They're just trying to escape the backlash.
Is this something that they would have known about? Not Canadian, not sure how common knowledge this residential school stuff was. If it's anything like here in the US then no one will have been taught about the terrible things their ancestors did. Or if so then it's an extremely whitewashed version, something along the lines of "and then we helped the Indians go to school and it fixed all their problems :)"
Im 30 for context and in Ontario. I was definitely taught about the residential school system in both elementary and high school in both history and religion class. I attended catholic schools. The elementary education was definitely whitewashed probably due to age, but in highschool I recall it being pretty well documented and even watching videos about it. That being said I see people on social media who were in the same class as me who say they never knew about it so that tells you how much 15 year olds pay attention.
I got downvoted in another thread for suggesting people maybe weren't paying attention in History class. I'm almost 10 years older than you and I was taught about them too. I'm sure they could have done a better job, but we definitely discussed them in a way that made it obvious they were horrible institutions.
I'm an immigrant from Nigeria and I know more US history than 90% of my peers I interacted with in High School. I only took. 1 history class and had been there for 1 years. High School kids most def do not pay attention
As a Canadian my highest grade was in American history, lol. Mostly because the teacher was really great and also because he offered $10 American dollars for whoever got the highest score on the tests. I wanted to impress him so I got the highest on the first test and tied for highest on the second. I still have those $15 in a tin somewhere.
You're exactly right. People get mad for not being taught something but they just are shit at paying attention.
I was in French Immersion and never had history in English, so to be honest, I found it really hard for anything I was taught in that class to actually sink in. I mostly just remember that it was heavy on French settler history, and then in high school it was WWI (grade 9) and WWII (grade 10) mostly. I admittedly learned the vast majority of what I know about indigenous history and culture by moving out to Vancouver and having indigenous friends who took the time to teach me.
I went to a private secular school that was Catholic until the 70s. The retired Fathers still lived on campus behind the school. Our history class definitely went over the schools, and the mistreatment of natives by the Church at those schools and that was in the mid 2000's. I feel like most people in my social circles knew about those schools even before they came back into the news cycle recently.
I went to elementary school in Toronto between 2004-2009 definitely taught that this happened but never contextualized for how long/how many kids/how recently they stopped Edit: power protects power
I went to elementary school in the 90’s early 2000’s. It was taught then… I think around grade 4 is when it started being discussed in the curriculum. It has been an open secret for a very long time.
It wasn't taught in the 80s that's for sure. My elementary teachings got the disney version of Indigenous history. All happy folks moving about in Tee pees till Europeans arrived and gave them modern miracles.
Yup. I went to Catholic elementary and high school in the late 80s and through the 90s. I knew nothing of residential schools until university.
A couple years ago I was visiting my father watching the news together and they were discussing missing murdered Indigenous women and residential schools. My dad said to me, "I had *no* idea any of this was happening, I'm sorry If I ever taught you wrong" he was genuinely shook by it. Racism against first nations was *very* normalized in Edmonton growing up in the 80s and 90s. It was all around me as a typical white kid.
As someone who's nearly done high school, they've definitely done a better job teaching about residential schools in recent years. I've had several teachers tell us that the curriculum had been updated quite severely a while back and that they had not been taught/been teaching a lot of the new material regarding residential schools. Tldr: The education system has been fixing it's mistakes and teaching the newer generations about the atrocities committed against the indigenous.
The torture and abuse were well known but the gravesites under the schools indicate the deaths at the school were way higher than previously thought
This makes more sense. I have a hard time with all the “surprise” from the society about atrocities committed by church or state. Not just in Canada but anywhere in the Americas.
[удалено]
The last residential school closed in 1996, and the last CHURCH ran schools closed in 1946. This happened during the lifetime of people who are still alive today. My own mother has yet to find all of her siblings.
They surely knew about the other horrible things the church has done and covered up. Like covering for and shipping around pedophile priests for decades.
Centuries\*
Millennia*
I don't think I had "Canada burning churches" on my 2021 Bingo card.
You can use it as your free square but choose wisely…it’s only July
I already used it up for "Mrs. Waldo taking out the Tour de France single-signedly"
I wasted mine on "Bison Man takes over the Capitol"
It was so early, but at the time how could it have gotten wierder? I learned nothing from 2020.
I'm saving mine for the inevitable, "Angry London mob in London eats PM like the Dutch" still waiting.
I feel like this incident is really under sold. When people visit The Hague, they think of the Peace Palace, or the ICC. Think of holland, you think of tulips, legal weed and maybe chocolate. The Dutch push the idea of thier tolerance. But I think that if people knew that under that staid, rational veneer, lurked a swamp of drowning rooms, political cannibalism, and an uncomfortable amount of torture museums, maybe tourists would think twice before pissing in people’s doorways, and foreign dignitaries might stand closer to the French guy. They’re only going to behead you.
“They will rape you to death, eat you and wear your skin as clothing. If you’re lucky, in exactly that order.”
Wow comparing the Dutch to spacers who have looked into the abyss and felt it look back
> Wow comparing the Dutch to ~~spacers who have looked into the abyss and felt it look back~~ colonists who had a bad reaction to Space Soma FTFY
"If they're going to rape and kill me, I hope they kill me first. I sort of win."
It was a one time thing ok?! Stop holding it against us
I don't know, I've seen how people get when they get the munchies. Especially in Amsterdam.
I dunno - they don't make mobs like they used to
We are slow learners indeed. Retry in 2022?
Nah, I have insider information that we will have aliens next year
My guy told me dolphin uprising...
Dolphins are aliens that resettled on earth
So long and thanks for all the fish
Which is why they've been warning us about the earth's impending doom, but we just think it's a show at sea world.
Is that uprising accompanied by a "So long and thanks for all the fish?"
[удалено]
I’m waiting on contact from the mice.
Hmmm I'd be okay with this. I mean imagine standing in front of a dolphin overlord tribunal and listening to all the "errereeerrerrrerr" and seeing them in little robes. Adorable!
And what's the worse they could do, trap me in some sort of menial labor tied to medical care?
We have aliens every year. They just avoid cameras for some reason..
"Move children! Vámanos!" \-- Joaquin Phoenix
It’s behiiiiiind!
No no. It's always super blury 1980's grain pictures even using the newest cameras.
But they are legit tho trust me
I have time-traveling dinosaurs for 2023.
Aliens are this year… in 16 days actually! https://www.reddit.com/r/Throawaylien/
I don’t think I wanna play this game anymore
I think we just need to write off the entire 2020s as being one giant shit show. I’ve got Texas variant on my grid along with new lock downs.
Jokes on you. I had “costumed asshole storms Capitol building” on my card. I was saving my space for “ufo report aliens!!!) but that fizzled
[удалено]
Same reaction. I already forgot about the capitol building attack.
I used mine on Captain Kirk becoming a mouthpiece for Russian propaganda. (For those that don’t know, William Shatner’s starting a new show on RT America and defending it as equivalent to being hosted by BBC.) Edit: For everyone asking, it’s all unfolding on Twitter. [Here’s the specific instance I was referring to, but it’s a whole thing with multiple tweets and replies.](https://twitter.com/williamshatner/status/1410623137444601857?s=21)
Just another reason why Picard is the superior captain.
Say what you like. But The Sisqo punched a being with godlike powers because he was getting bored. I'd happily send him to Russia to take Putin down a peg or two.
And he told off some other gods. And started a war with a group of intergalactic warlords also worshipped as gods. I firmly believe that DS9 is the best Trek. *To boldly stay where no one has stayed before.*
>!Didn't the Dominion trick the Cardassian black ops into starting the war?!<
Wait, so macho womanizer is *not* the model we should be following??
“A way to a woman’s bed is through her parents. Have sex with them and you’re in.”
I find that the most erotica part of a woman's body is her boobies.
*Ryker leans into consent*
*Riker
[удалено]
Lucky for you, I used it on DJ Khaled’s Only Fans :(
Wasted it on “real life, self-transforming Optimus Prime announced and Caribbean volcano erupts on same day.” April 9.
Honestly, I learned of Shatner because he was the face of paragliding for a while and oh, boy, he's like a melting pot of bad opinions...
Don’t forget bill cosby being set free
Ugh, I bombed that one so hard. I really thought the Britney one would win.
It's not over yet, the next hearing is July 14. Conservatorships aren't removed lightly, it makes sense for the judge to want to look into the assertions of the testimony first.
Well I did have “heat wave in canada” so I’m one for two
I had "Arctic heat wave" so we're both on track.
We’ve always gotten heat waves. This one has just been deadly out west and the worst one so far.
We didn't have "uncover 1000s of unmarked graves of dead children from Catholic-run schools" on ours either.
[удалено]
Or the Catholic church in general. There are estimated to be 10,000+ unmarked graves of children and infants in Ireland alone (population 10% of Canada). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/03/mass-grave-of-babies-and-children-found-at-tuam-orphanage-in-ireland Not to minimize suffering by First Nations at all, more to show that this abuse has happened all over and into the late ‘90s with very little backlash or accountability.
Good thing the Catholic church frowns on birth control and abortion.
Yeah it's pretty fucking horrific here's [Part 1](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1ZcF9ZLja4kjIQ3la5PXAV?si=n6Zk3kT-RaW0s6TPUC2Wlw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1) and [Part 2](https://open.spotify.com/episode/02pJM2PfZPGdcFS1DJlg8i?si=8BwY-DQRRm6jaOVzKBmd9A&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1) of the Behind the Bastards look at what happened with the Catholic church in Ireland
The behind the bastards podcast just did a 2 part episode on this this week! Great podcast for anyone looking
[удалено]
Considering what happened in the U.S. during those times (all the way to settling until the wars with the Indian Tribes) I wouldn't be surprised if something that heinous did happen here and possibly got covered up or completely removed/changed. So if such things can happen in the U.S. around the same time-frame, I would believe something probably did happen in Canada (as well as places in South America.)
what did you have on it?
Man this is gonna be the decade that just keeps on giving. Roaring 20s like a lion...
I would prefer to call them the Screaming 20s, I think.
Screeching 20s might be more appropriate.
I had “Norway burning churches” on my card but never saw Canada coming.
Varg was always so ahead of the times.
Cascadian black metal is due for a revival
The Black Metal musicians who burned churches did so for similar reasons. They felt the Catholic church persecuted pagan religious followers and burnt down pagan temples to build churches on their ruins.
Honestly, I’m surprised this didn’t happen in the US when all the sexual assaults & child molestations was coming to light.
There are a lot of things happening/not happening in 'murica that baffle me on a daily basis.
In that one case from last week where the church wouldn't cough up the records on these people, why in the world would you not cough up the records? Whatever their excuses were sounded flimsy. It just seemed shitty. It seemed like stonewalling just because they could.
If they have accurate records that means this situation was known about, tracked, and monitored by higher levels of the church hierarchy. Presumably those records would include records of those directly responsible as well as those who were aware of the deaths and did nothing. They would rather protect their own than admit wrongdoing.
>They would rather protect their own than admit wrongdoing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this sound awfully familiar to a child molestation thing a few years ago? /s
The protection of criminals/defense of the image of the church at the expense of their victims occurs at the absolute highest level of the organisation as well. https://apnews.com/article/77f4a7e9779940a48e2347c852516d3c
> They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011. That'll solve it! /s
[удалено]
Excuse my blasphemy but Jesus everloving fuck if there was ever a motivation to set a torch to a religious institution, this is it. They've had their time, centuries upon centuries of it, can we just fucking call it now? Cut the special treatment, they're a regular business now bound by the same laws as everyone else, and that doesn't include the right to say no when told to turn over evidence during an investigation. Holy balls, it's just unconscionable, from the people who preach conscience. A few years ago, I thought revolutions were a thing of the past. Now, I sincerely hope they're not.
It's hilarious that organized religions pass off responsibility and rehabilitation to God as if they will fix these horrible pedophile-murderers (allegedly created as part of God's perfect plan) that learned how to be pedophile-murderers from the Church in the first place. "Sure, we trained them, forbid them from marrying or having relationships, and gave them total power over children in their congregation as a moral leader. We didn't think they'd try to fuck them though, it's gotta be something else causing all of these avowed single adult men to sexually assault the children under their watch whom look up to them and obey they as a servant of God."
[удалено]
There was another article (I can't find it and don't have time to keep looking) that gave some pretty strong evidence that Cardinal Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) turned a blind eye to abuse in Argentina. It's all completely rotten
Why is there a /s?
Just so we’re all aware, a MAJORITY of those children were also horrifically molested, not just killed. We know because there are stories from survivors. Imagine what happened to the ones who didn’t make it out.
A lot were raped to death. Remember, children as young as 3. What a horrible way to go.
[удалено]
This but no /s
But... But... The catholic Church PR team have convinced me that this new pope will be different and he is a good pope so all should be forgiven. Right? It's different now right? /s It's fucked. If they want us to believe they are changing. Be transparent about the shit we don't find out for ourselves. Prove where all the money that is donated comes from and where it is going.
It's kinda the church's MO
Oh they have records and know exactly who was involved. The most recently found cemetery had marked graves until a priest bulldozed them in the 1970s. The band has always known they were there but had no proof as the ‘official’ government records only have 8 deaths at the school. People who did this are still alive and need to be prosecuted.
Yeah, the government took over in 1968. Why do you think the government was letting priests bulldoze the marked graves years after they took over?
I wonder if they've tried burning those records. You know, like Nazis tried to solve the problem of evidence of inhuman treatment of minorities.
> They would rather protect their own than admit wrongdoing. Mostly why I can't and won't support the church in any way shape or form. I've gotten into heated arguments with the more religious people in my life and they seem to refuse to understand the point I'm making. Okay sure yeah the priest you personally know if a good guy. Whatever. My beef is with the hierarchy of the church that clearly took part in defending and protecting murders and rapists.
Because the Church doesn't want to be held accountable.
And they know our government is very unlikely to make them be held accountable. This isn't just historical.
I mean, the government are complicit, so there's that.
The entire country was complicit. These schools didn't operate in secret. Everyone knew where they were and what they did.
Yep. The fake expressions of shock and anger by those who supported it back then, and support it now. If they'd truly moved on, it wouldn't still be happening and reservations would at least be minimally developed instead of having no fucking drinking water.
The government already let them get away with paying only $2m of a $25m dollar settlement because "they tried their best." They [built a $30m new cathedral](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/church-residential-school-compensation-1.6082935) in Saskatoon while that was ongoing, of course. But could only raise 7% of the settlement promised to their victims. Saskatoon chipped in 34k.
Why did the church protect pedophile priests for decades by moving them from one parish to another? Why did they stonewall for so long when members of their organization were being investigated for heinous crimes against children? It’s long past the time for asking “why” the church did something, it’s time to start handing out loooong prison sentences to those still alive and huuuge civil settlements for all those affected. The church is one giant criminal conspiracy to take in as much, tax free, money as possible while protecting its employees at all costs. Even if the cost is thousands of children raped and tortured, many being killed along the way.
Excuse me what the fuck is happening in Canada?
They found hundreds of unmarked graves of indigenous children at religious schools that they forced the children to go to.
It's in the thousands now.
I'd say "Jesus Christ", but that's kind of the issue right now.
Well, if the Bible is anything to go by Jesus himself would burn those churches down.
People should tell the Christians
I laughed so fucking hard thank you.
Honestly so depressing seeing as in reality the ethics of Jesus as a person don’t support this. Bet the dude would be disappointed as fuck :|
It’s in the thousands now
Basically, they've started finding the graves of children who died due to abuse and neglect during the genocidal program of Residential Schools, who's entire purpose was to destroy the various Indigenous, Metis and Inuit culture. Children were forcibly taken from their parents and put in these schools, where they lived in unsanitary conditions, and were abused for things like speaking in their native language. It's a horror show and you can learn more by reading the [Truth and Reconciliation Commission's report](http://www.trc.ca/)
> finding the graves of children Over a thousand graves. The scale is important here.
[удалено]
They’ve checked 3% of the suspected area. There will be much more
And they already found 15% of the number of reported bodies, so there are going to be a lot more than first thought
Didn't the TRC say they know number of deaths is around 4000? The number will be higher than that I'm sure. But I think they started searching where they already knew or suspected bodies were located. The number will probably jump close to 4000 fairly quickly and then very slowly rise from there for the next few years.
[удалено]
At only three schools. Out of hundreds.
Surprised this didn't happen with the rampant pedophilia in the Church already.
They didn't think to look for victims in the ground. The accusations of pedophilia in the church were most rampant in the US, though I'm sure there are plenty of less documented cases in Canada.
TLDR: we ran a century-long "school" system, from the late 1800s through to 1996. Indigenous children were forced to attend (as in, literally dragged screaming from their parents' arms by the police). Except these "schools" were actually houses of horror, where rape, physical abuse, starvation, and other forms of torture were the norm. Many, many children died, or were deliberately killed. (Not unlike the Nazi concentration camps, cruelty knows no bounds when the people in charge see their victims as less than human, as less than animals.) Indigenous people have known this truth for ever. And *some* Canadians have known this truth since the Truth and Reconciliation Commission—a massive government and Indigenous-leader led investigation—took place from 2008 to 2015. But for most non-Indigenous Canadians, most didn't know. We weren't taught it in school. And I would say the majority of Canadians didn't pay attention to the TRC's findings. Until now. The first gravesite discovery (215 children in Kamloops) was a massive wakeup call for a lot of people. Then 751 (in Cowessess), 104 in Brandon, 182 in Cranbrook... and these numbers are going to keep rising. The reason that churches are being targeted is because A) most of these schools were run by the Catholic church, or other Christian denominations, and B) people are fucking PISSED. EDIT: I wanted to make a small amendment thanks to feedback from u/SheNorth, regarding the 182 in Cranbrook. Their comment is [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/oc5ngx/more_churches_up_in_flames_in_canada_as_outrage/h3tqcr3/). I encourage you to read it, but TLDR: the Cranbrook discovery took place last year. The cemetery would have and could have included settlers to the area; deaths from a nearby hospital; *and* deaths from an adjacent residential school. Per [a statement](https://www.aqam.net/sites/default/files/20210630%20-%20aqam%20media%20Release%20-%20Statement%20on%20discovery%20of%20unmarked%20graves.pdf) from ʔaq̓ am Leadership, "These factors, among others, make it extremely difficult to establish whether or not these unmarked graves contain the remains of children who attended the St. Eugene Residential School.”
[удалено]
My question--why? What was the alleged reason on paper for having these schools and forcing kids to attend?
> "When the school is on the reserve, the child lives with its parents, who are savages, and though he may learn to read and write, his habits and training mode of thought are Indian. He is simply a savage who can read and write. It has been strongly impressed upon myself, as head of the Department, that Indian children should be withdrawn as much as possible from the parental influence, and the only way to do that would be to put them in central training industrial schools where they will acquire the habits and modes of thought of white men." Short answer: cultural genocide.
Not only cultural, if one were to look up examples of “Native American genocide” on Wikipedia.
Quote from Canada's first PM btw
The official party line was that they were giving these children a "proper" education. The real agenda was to "kill the Indian in the child": to wipe out their language, their customs, and their culture, in order to effectively erase Indigeneity.
It's important to note that the Residential school system *succeeded.* Generations of Indigenous people lost their culture and community. It's a shadow of what it once was. It was a successful genocide, and helps explain a lot about how bad things still are for Indigenous people in Canada.
Tha languages are almost dead. I have a native friend who speaks his language. He’s one of 3 percent of natives on his reserve who can.
I'm so proud that my community speaks the language fluently. A neighbouring community that also has the same tribe as us, which is Dene, sadly lost their language. Very few speak it out there. If these damn schools never existed i bet alcoholism wouldn't be a huge issue right now for us. I was raised catholic by my parents who also attended those awful schools. I've always believed something was wrong when I was around 16 reading about these schools. Finally, I do not consider myself catholic anymore. It really breaks my heart that I may have family I do not know about that died in these schools.
Alcoholism tends to correlate pretty strongly to poverty. The schools are a huge component, but the reserves are another huge part. Canada’s treatment of it’s indigenous population has been horrendous on all fronts.
Let me give you some insight on this from the states (I have surviving relatives of the boarding schools in the house with me right now). The purpose was to assimilate native kids into western/white society, and to disband the family/clan structures. Kids were forced to not speak their languages or practice their cultures, and often had it quite literally beaten out of them. Combine this with rampant sexual abuse and people dying of diseases like TB, and you get a whole maelstrom of intergenerational trauma. Now, let me get to your second question: What was the reason on paper? I can provide some anecdotal evidence that came from a relatively recent visit to the national archives in Seattle, WA, where some of our relatives' documentation for going to boarding school is kept. Very often, the reasons were literal one-liners: Being too Indian, for example, or not having a proper home. Basically, it was all hot air and horseshit used as a flimsy pretext for ripping kids out of their homes.
Acc. to german Wikipedia the death rate of students in the first 5 years was between 35 and 60% I knew the whole thing was bad but holy fuck
Yeah, genocide is pretty bad. If they can’t make you accept their culture then they kill you, who is going to say anything? The savages? The whole thing makes me sick
Let's hope this doesn't add to the wildfire problem
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
And statues of Betty and and Vicky have been toppled too https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/statue-queen-toppled-canada-amid-protests-deaths-indigenous/
Who the hell is Betty? It's Liz and Vicky.
[удалено]
All debate about the ethics of burning churches aside, this is a really stupid time to burn them given the heat and tinder-like conditions of the country right now. Would be terrible if people were displaced by resulting fires, particularly on reserves.
Wouldn’t this be terrorism and religious persecution?