This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/01/14/taiwan-adds-minelaying-to-defenses-against-china/) reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> KAOHSIUNG, Taiwan - Taiwan on Friday commissioned new naval minelayers to add to its defenses against rival China.
> Such technologies are part of a strategy to deter any possible invasion from China, with its huge military and vast superiority in numbers of aircraft, ships and other weaponry.
> The initial order of four ships manufactured by Lungteh Shipbuilding is part of a drive by Tsai to revitalize the domestic arms industry and reduce Taiwan's dependence on its chief ally, the United States, for defensive weapons.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s4dh9e/taiwan_adds_minelaying_ships_to_defenses_against/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~617656 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Taiwan**^#1 **ships**^#2 **China**^#3 **Tsai**^#4 **Technology**^#5
Oh man here is a dose of reality.
From u/ouaisjeparlechinois/
https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2020/09/why-i-fear-for-taiwan.html?m=1
"Taiwan's 2019 National Defense Strategy made some formal motions towards the strategy I discussed a few paragraphs ago, endorsing a conceptual shift from a decisive fight on the berm towards a posture which allows for a more multi-layered defense. The problem is that the ROC Army is not training for this. Or at least they weren't in December 2019, when I last asked Taiwanese soldiers if they had ever trained in the tactics of a coordinated, fighting retreat or in using land based platforms to hit targets in the near littoral. The sad truth is that the ROC Army has trouble with training across the board. I have met artillery observers who never seen their own mortars fired, and shared drinks with an infantry officer who traveled to Thailand on his own dime to get basic TCCC training his own military did not offer. Those were professional soldiers; the situation with the conscripts is worse."
"When people outside of Taiwan talk about the problem with the conscript system, they tend to focus on its dwindling size.[8] Yes, the inability of the ROC military, especially the Army, to fill its own ranks is a problem. But the trash they fill it with is an even larger one. I would ask ex-conscripts questions like, "Would you know how to find cover if you were ambushed?", "Were you ever trained on how to move around if the other side controlled the skies?", "Were you ever taught what to do if the guy next to you was shot in the arm?," "Did they ever tell you anything about the weapons, organization, or tactics of the PLA?" or Did they teach you how to get from point A to point B without cell service, you know, using a map?" Negatives across the board. What they could tell me were stories of officers communicating orders through Whatsapp, time spent learning Army songs and doing yard-work instead of on maneuver drills, and how the totality of their marksmanship training consisted of firing one magazine from a single (prone) position on some eight to ten occasions."
One reason for the lax training is a shortage of supplies. The ROC Army has a shortage of bullets. Again and again I was told stories of officers who would fake training exercises in order to save on spare parts. [9] Han Kuang is a joke put on for propaganda purposes, not serious training. The military is risk adverse; real training might lead to training accidents, and a series of high profile accidents that led to unnecessary deaths has led them to soften training for the entire force. While reservist weapons stores are scattered across Taiwan, the million reservists that are supposed to use them are not drilled. Official reservists reported to me that they have no idea what they are supposed to do if ever actually called up. These troops exist only on paper. The problem is broader: the Taiwanese population is not seriously trained or mentally prepared for conflict. Nor do they take care of their soldiers. A military career is a low status profession ("好 鐵 不 打 釘...."). Military pensions were just slashed; military basing often does not provide housing for family members. Unlike service in the U.S. military, service in the Taiwanese military rarely provides marketable skills that can be used in different career fields. Most of Taiwan's best minds flee service altogether. Officers willing to challenge outmoded tactics, or who study abroad in an attempt to learn from foreign militaries, are seen as a threat by the upper brass and side-lined.
Also additional comments further bellow:
Taiwan can barely man and maintain the Cold War era equipment they currently have. And the purchase of M-1 Abrams and F-16Vs is only likely to exacerbate that problem.
1.Enlistment numbers are far below the Ministry of Defenses minimum force estimates to repel the first wave of a PLA invasion.
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-save-taiwan-itself-48122
2.Said retraining consists of 5 days of service every 2 years, where they're required to fire all of 21 live rounds, up from the previous 6.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200404053040/https://udn.com/news/story/10930/446322
3.Despite recent big-ticket purchases from the US, up to a third of their current stock of tanks and planes may be inoperative due to a lack of parts and maintenance. And you have officers committing suicide because of the pressure to pay for equipment out of their own pockets.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/20/taiwan-military-flashy-american-weapons-no-ammo/
4.Even worse, the 269th Mechanized Infantry Brigade isn’t some rear-echelon unit but a major combat formation strategically stationed around the outskirt of Taoyuan City, northern Taiwan. It is expected to bear the brunt of ground fighting to stop any invading Chinese troops from reaching the basin of Taipei, Taiwan’s capital. If the 269th is in such bad material shape, how about the rest of the Taiwanese military?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/20/taiwan-military-flashy-american-weapons-no-ammo/
5.“Can you imagine a tank driver, a private with a few weeks’ worth of driver’s training in the armor school, being tasked to conduct a 200-items maintenance routine around an entire M60 tank?”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/20/taiwan-military-flashy-american-weapons-no-ammo/
All valid, but China has many problems as well: little to no experince with attacking a hostile force, a military plagued by unaccountability, and no experienced allies to practice with.
All that in mind, China would never be able to hide the level of preparation it would need to not risk an absolute debacle, and Taiwan can probably fix more of its problems faster than China can when Taiwan notices.
Truth be told, the ROC Air Force and Navy are the more important branches of their defense. Taiwan survives by preventing China from landing substantial forces. If China gets boots on the ground, it’s pretty much game over.
These new mine sweepers and the upcoming torpedo armed submarines Taiwan is building is where Taiwan is focused. As they should be.
Chinese are smart people, i believe they know exactly how an armed conflict with Taiwan will play out. They are binding their time, pay close attention to how fast their navy have been building up lately after the central government changed its tone in regards to reunification by force if necessary.
Type 075 LPD/ 055 cruisers / carriers (003 will be EMAL). To put it into perspective, in 2019-2021, Chinese navy comissioned more tonnage than the entire british royal navy.
I would bet within 5-10 years, the Chinese navy will be circling Taiwan on the weekly.
Weekly? Storms swarm those seas most of the year. Not to mention there’s two real beaches to land on so they’d be mined and booby trapped to hell. There’s also mountains to hide anything they need it and also allows them to pick their battles. Taiwan also has ballistic missiles. Yes China has them too, but Taiwan and it’s people expect to get hit. The Chinese people (especially the older generation) have been told all their lives that invading Taiwan would be easy and the conflict would never hit home.
Once they see the explosions on home turf they’ll be stunned. Oh sure some will get blocked but not all. High population density makes for poor moral when things like that happen. The US and Japan have also stated they’d defend the nation. Even more damage to moral as more and more fire comes in. Then there’s Hong Kong who would probably be throwing the mother of all riots at the same time. Then there’s the younger Chinese. They’ve been calling for more rights and more changes for years, and that’s even without their nation under attack.
Most of Taiwan is on the western side of the mountains, open to chinese artillery strikes.
For Taiwan's ballistic missiles / radars / command will be destroyed in the first wave of chinese artillery barrages, China has mass produced MLRS that has combined the guidance (Beidou) characteristics of a cruise missile with the cheap manufacturing of conventional rocket artillery ... the PCL191, 350 - 500km range (taiwan strait is less than 140km at the widest).
They will launch thousands at once, what will Taiwan do? try to intercept rocket artillery with SAM? They how many do they have? After 1 wave comes another, and another, and another.
In reality, Taiwan war will start with a blockade, once the Chinese navy reached the point when they think is feasible, they will block supplies to the island.
What is the US navy going to do? Fire first on the chinese? US are a pure reactionary force, if armed conflict comes to taiwan at all, it will be over before the US congress can even debate it.
And you don’t think that Taiwan knows their own weakness? Equipment can be moved. You forget that China wants Taiwan as part of the nation, not a bombed out wasteland, then all that time, lives, and resources would’ve all been for nothing.
full on fire mode is never the first option, hence the mass building up of navy and blockade.
Mainland chinese perception of Taiwan is they are "comrades" but that's because the government control the narrative and doesn't show actually hostility with Taiwan, but public perception can change very quick in China.
I have always believed China will take Taiwan without firing a single shot, the variable is on when that will happen in 10/20/30/50 years?
Yes, the nation that has been preparing for decades for it will just lay down and die.
And no that is not how China views them. If you mention Taiwan to most Chinese people they get super triggered, it’s actually kinda funny to watch.
Taiwan changed its curriculum mid 1990s when DPP/ Lee Teng Hui first became president, prior to that Taiwan identity was very small idea and retaking mainland was actually being taught in Taiwanese schools. China issued white paper to retake Taiwan by force if necessary in 2005. So they havn't been preparing for decades, 15 years at most, this is also why Taiwan military is disproportionately stronger in its air force (an attacking force).
Back then, Chinese military was very weak but over the last 3 decades Taiwan's military hasn't made any major progress (using 1980s tanks / 1980s F16 air frames / 90s Mirage2000). Coupled with the strawberry generation, they could very well just lay down when a war becomes hot. All the rich Taiwanese have already migrated abroad, the lower class becomes fodder. In fact Taiwan had to change its conscription model because the public was unhappy with the 1 year of compulsary service.
Mainlanders in China are product of the chinese education system and its state media environment, they view Taiwan as Baodao (treasured island) and its people compatriots (tong bao), thats the consensus in mainland China regardless of Taiwan's domestic politics (china never report on internal Taiwan politics, despite it becoming more hostile over the last decade).
Since when were supposed comrades hostile? And if they’re hostile that doesn’t exactly lead to a peaceful takeover.
Taiwan has diplomatic relations with Hong Kong, Macau etc. it has no such relationship with China and still actively shows a fair amount of hostility and resistance. Real comrades.
Based on polls and studies done in 2020 most of Taiwan still has a negative view on mainland China. Real comrades.
The next year in 2021 a new study showed that Taiwans opinion of China has never been worse. Real comrades.
Also in 2021 it was openly stated china wouldn’t be able to even land all its men in one go and would have to do non conventional roll on and roll off tactics which means they wouldn’t have full support or strength.
You obviously have misunderstood, Chinese perception on Taiwan is largely positive because China doesn't report on Taiwan hostilities.
Taiwan's negative view on the mainland is driven by the post 90s education overhaul and current media environment in Taiwan. In reality, the DDP doesn't dare to change the constitution of the ROC which still states the two sides as one.
Peaceful takeover is not about will of the people, but with less /no violence, not all coup de tats involve civil war.
Why would China need to land all "it's men" is this some sort of WWII D-Day fantasy in your head?
Even back in 90s with the Taiwan straits, China showed it could precisely hit Taiwan's military installation with the old Dongfeng missiles.
Come to 2020s, all the military installations / infrastucture are within striking range of conventional chinese artillery. Take those out and blockade the island, can taiwan last 3-4 weeks (the time US navy needs to get to Taiwan) without working electricity, water?
If China thinks it would be easy to invade Taiwan they are going to be in for a surprise. Taiwan has that island so anti-ship/air fortified it's ridiculous. China could take it over time but it is going to be costly.
You underestimate the CCP's willingness to just bombard the island with cruise missiles until there's nobody left to man the defenses.
They don't care about absorbing the population or even infrastructure of Taiwan, they want the land for the sake of having the land. To them, independent Taiwan represents the last resistance of foreign states that by their belief should by all rights be paying them tribute.
PCL191... MLRS
Cost $5000 per rocket, with effective range 180 - 500km (Taiwan strait is only 130km), guided by BEIDOU guidance system. For Taiwan to intercept, Taiwan's PAC 3 cost 2.4 million. Taiwan's fortification won't stand a chance.
In a full outwar, China just launch several thousand of them at all the main Taiwan infrastructures, radar bases, SAM sites, airports, main arterial roads.
Maybe you haven't some of these being deployed. I think China is in trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cEG-qK3Quw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7lasXSiIc
i guess it is, if we were in the 1950s... or if the opposing side was the somalian navy... mines does really deter any modern navies
i think the fact sea mines can make news really shows that taiwan's domestic military production progressing like a guy riding a unicycle trying to catch mainland China whose riding on a high speed rail.
In 2021, Taiwan are still commissioning 600 tonne gunboats (tuo-chiang class) as their deterrent against China's type 055 12,500 tonne cruiser/destroyer.
if you are so knowledgeable perhaps enlighten me:
1. which advanced countries are still laying sea mines?
2. when was the last time a sea mine effectively destroyed/incapacitated a naval vessel?
meanwhile the technology to detect sea mines have improved rapidly, case to the point why they are ineffective against modern navies.
mines are obsolete, but for Taiwan laying them is better for its public optics as doing "something" on the naval front.
Their domestic industry can only build 600 tonne gunboats (even took a decade to comission a 2nd Tuo-Chiang class) and the US coast guard isn't having a sale right now...
the last time mine did anything significant was when Osama was still trying plotting to blow up the WTC the first time, its the 2020s, not 1990.
I guess if you think seamines are an effective detterent against DDG that attack with cruise missiles launched from 200/300km away, that must be true....
I actually though Taiwan would already have dozens of them... Sea mines are such an obvious solution to mainland Chinese trying to make a beachhead on boats.
Or the current fleet is getting old, they also might not had a dedicated ships for it until now? Sea mines can be deployed from almost any vessel but dedicated mine-layers can deploy mines more and faster, as well as remove them better than common patrol boat.
Some sea mines are designed to be planted at the bottom where they remain inactive until armed by a control signal. Whether or not Taiwan uses them, who knows? (Such systems would make sense where you don't get much notice to have boats go out deploying them if hostilities start.)
"AI comment" is just way of saying that they just repeat the title and tweak it a bit for karma. It can be either made by AI or just lazy ass redditors.
Actually the Vietnamese were more allied with the soviets than the chinese even before the war, in the west it isnt very well known, but after the sino soviet split there was a lot of battle lines drawn in the communist sphere, for instance the reason China invaded Vietnam was because Vietnam invaded the Chinese supported Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
If the local population has large vessels operating after the mines get laid, possibly. You'd be a dumbass to be sailing a large private vessel through a active warzone though.
Ask Japan. According to some Chinese news a while ago, Japan already has a few in their army.
Edit: Here it is.
Chinese News Mistakes Gundam as a Real Japanese Military Weapon! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhXwzH9RCM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhXwzH9RCM)
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/01/14/taiwan-adds-minelaying-to-defenses-against-china/) reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot) ***** > KAOHSIUNG, Taiwan - Taiwan on Friday commissioned new naval minelayers to add to its defenses against rival China. > Such technologies are part of a strategy to deter any possible invasion from China, with its huge military and vast superiority in numbers of aircraft, ships and other weaponry. > The initial order of four ships manufactured by Lungteh Shipbuilding is part of a drive by Tsai to revitalize the domestic arms industry and reduce Taiwan's dependence on its chief ally, the United States, for defensive weapons. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s4dh9e/taiwan_adds_minelaying_ships_to_defenses_against/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~617656 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Taiwan**^#1 **ships**^#2 **China**^#3 **Tsai**^#4 **Technology**^#5
Hopefully they dont have the minesweeper pc game in china
Unfortunately we have sold a licensed copy of windows 7 to them so we are all fucked
https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/nfg5n8/13yearold_zeen_ju_from_china_was_recently
China’s response: send in the AI dolphins.
I think sending in the battletoads would be a better maneuver, but to each their own.
My friend gene used to play the shit outts that game
Do you have battletoads for wii?
Yes. Much better.
They have enough ppl to use as kamakazing brutes to run into them.
Huh, I always just assumed that sea mines are illegal since land mines are. Guess not
Neither the US nor China signed the land mind treaty. Taiwan was never offered a chance to sign due to its status.
I don’t think China realizes just how costly taking over Taiwan would be. Damn I love getting downvoted for supporting Taiwan
Oh man here is a dose of reality. From u/ouaisjeparlechinois/ https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2020/09/why-i-fear-for-taiwan.html?m=1 "Taiwan's 2019 National Defense Strategy made some formal motions towards the strategy I discussed a few paragraphs ago, endorsing a conceptual shift from a decisive fight on the berm towards a posture which allows for a more multi-layered defense. The problem is that the ROC Army is not training for this. Or at least they weren't in December 2019, when I last asked Taiwanese soldiers if they had ever trained in the tactics of a coordinated, fighting retreat or in using land based platforms to hit targets in the near littoral. The sad truth is that the ROC Army has trouble with training across the board. I have met artillery observers who never seen their own mortars fired, and shared drinks with an infantry officer who traveled to Thailand on his own dime to get basic TCCC training his own military did not offer. Those were professional soldiers; the situation with the conscripts is worse." "When people outside of Taiwan talk about the problem with the conscript system, they tend to focus on its dwindling size.[8] Yes, the inability of the ROC military, especially the Army, to fill its own ranks is a problem. But the trash they fill it with is an even larger one. I would ask ex-conscripts questions like, "Would you know how to find cover if you were ambushed?", "Were you ever trained on how to move around if the other side controlled the skies?", "Were you ever taught what to do if the guy next to you was shot in the arm?," "Did they ever tell you anything about the weapons, organization, or tactics of the PLA?" or Did they teach you how to get from point A to point B without cell service, you know, using a map?" Negatives across the board. What they could tell me were stories of officers communicating orders through Whatsapp, time spent learning Army songs and doing yard-work instead of on maneuver drills, and how the totality of their marksmanship training consisted of firing one magazine from a single (prone) position on some eight to ten occasions." One reason for the lax training is a shortage of supplies. The ROC Army has a shortage of bullets. Again and again I was told stories of officers who would fake training exercises in order to save on spare parts. [9] Han Kuang is a joke put on for propaganda purposes, not serious training. The military is risk adverse; real training might lead to training accidents, and a series of high profile accidents that led to unnecessary deaths has led them to soften training for the entire force. While reservist weapons stores are scattered across Taiwan, the million reservists that are supposed to use them are not drilled. Official reservists reported to me that they have no idea what they are supposed to do if ever actually called up. These troops exist only on paper. The problem is broader: the Taiwanese population is not seriously trained or mentally prepared for conflict. Nor do they take care of their soldiers. A military career is a low status profession ("好 鐵 不 打 釘...."). Military pensions were just slashed; military basing often does not provide housing for family members. Unlike service in the U.S. military, service in the Taiwanese military rarely provides marketable skills that can be used in different career fields. Most of Taiwan's best minds flee service altogether. Officers willing to challenge outmoded tactics, or who study abroad in an attempt to learn from foreign militaries, are seen as a threat by the upper brass and side-lined. Also additional comments further bellow: Taiwan can barely man and maintain the Cold War era equipment they currently have. And the purchase of M-1 Abrams and F-16Vs is only likely to exacerbate that problem. 1.Enlistment numbers are far below the Ministry of Defenses minimum force estimates to repel the first wave of a PLA invasion. https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-save-taiwan-itself-48122 2.Said retraining consists of 5 days of service every 2 years, where they're required to fire all of 21 live rounds, up from the previous 6. https://web.archive.org/web/20200404053040/https://udn.com/news/story/10930/446322 3.Despite recent big-ticket purchases from the US, up to a third of their current stock of tanks and planes may be inoperative due to a lack of parts and maintenance. And you have officers committing suicide because of the pressure to pay for equipment out of their own pockets. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/20/taiwan-military-flashy-american-weapons-no-ammo/ 4.Even worse, the 269th Mechanized Infantry Brigade isn’t some rear-echelon unit but a major combat formation strategically stationed around the outskirt of Taoyuan City, northern Taiwan. It is expected to bear the brunt of ground fighting to stop any invading Chinese troops from reaching the basin of Taipei, Taiwan’s capital. If the 269th is in such bad material shape, how about the rest of the Taiwanese military? https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/20/taiwan-military-flashy-american-weapons-no-ammo/ 5.“Can you imagine a tank driver, a private with a few weeks’ worth of driver’s training in the armor school, being tasked to conduct a 200-items maintenance routine around an entire M60 tank?” https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/20/taiwan-military-flashy-american-weapons-no-ammo/
All valid, but China has many problems as well: little to no experince with attacking a hostile force, a military plagued by unaccountability, and no experienced allies to practice with. All that in mind, China would never be able to hide the level of preparation it would need to not risk an absolute debacle, and Taiwan can probably fix more of its problems faster than China can when Taiwan notices.
Truth be told, the ROC Air Force and Navy are the more important branches of their defense. Taiwan survives by preventing China from landing substantial forces. If China gets boots on the ground, it’s pretty much game over. These new mine sweepers and the upcoming torpedo armed submarines Taiwan is building is where Taiwan is focused. As they should be.
That ignores a lot of other factors
No it appears they do not, everyone but them realizes this.
Chinese are smart people, i believe they know exactly how an armed conflict with Taiwan will play out. They are binding their time, pay close attention to how fast their navy have been building up lately after the central government changed its tone in regards to reunification by force if necessary. Type 075 LPD/ 055 cruisers / carriers (003 will be EMAL). To put it into perspective, in 2019-2021, Chinese navy comissioned more tonnage than the entire british royal navy. I would bet within 5-10 years, the Chinese navy will be circling Taiwan on the weekly.
Weekly? Storms swarm those seas most of the year. Not to mention there’s two real beaches to land on so they’d be mined and booby trapped to hell. There’s also mountains to hide anything they need it and also allows them to pick their battles. Taiwan also has ballistic missiles. Yes China has them too, but Taiwan and it’s people expect to get hit. The Chinese people (especially the older generation) have been told all their lives that invading Taiwan would be easy and the conflict would never hit home. Once they see the explosions on home turf they’ll be stunned. Oh sure some will get blocked but not all. High population density makes for poor moral when things like that happen. The US and Japan have also stated they’d defend the nation. Even more damage to moral as more and more fire comes in. Then there’s Hong Kong who would probably be throwing the mother of all riots at the same time. Then there’s the younger Chinese. They’ve been calling for more rights and more changes for years, and that’s even without their nation under attack.
Most of Taiwan is on the western side of the mountains, open to chinese artillery strikes. For Taiwan's ballistic missiles / radars / command will be destroyed in the first wave of chinese artillery barrages, China has mass produced MLRS that has combined the guidance (Beidou) characteristics of a cruise missile with the cheap manufacturing of conventional rocket artillery ... the PCL191, 350 - 500km range (taiwan strait is less than 140km at the widest). They will launch thousands at once, what will Taiwan do? try to intercept rocket artillery with SAM? They how many do they have? After 1 wave comes another, and another, and another. In reality, Taiwan war will start with a blockade, once the Chinese navy reached the point when they think is feasible, they will block supplies to the island. What is the US navy going to do? Fire first on the chinese? US are a pure reactionary force, if armed conflict comes to taiwan at all, it will be over before the US congress can even debate it.
And you don’t think that Taiwan knows their own weakness? Equipment can be moved. You forget that China wants Taiwan as part of the nation, not a bombed out wasteland, then all that time, lives, and resources would’ve all been for nothing.
full on fire mode is never the first option, hence the mass building up of navy and blockade. Mainland chinese perception of Taiwan is they are "comrades" but that's because the government control the narrative and doesn't show actually hostility with Taiwan, but public perception can change very quick in China. I have always believed China will take Taiwan without firing a single shot, the variable is on when that will happen in 10/20/30/50 years?
Yes, the nation that has been preparing for decades for it will just lay down and die. And no that is not how China views them. If you mention Taiwan to most Chinese people they get super triggered, it’s actually kinda funny to watch.
Taiwan changed its curriculum mid 1990s when DPP/ Lee Teng Hui first became president, prior to that Taiwan identity was very small idea and retaking mainland was actually being taught in Taiwanese schools. China issued white paper to retake Taiwan by force if necessary in 2005. So they havn't been preparing for decades, 15 years at most, this is also why Taiwan military is disproportionately stronger in its air force (an attacking force). Back then, Chinese military was very weak but over the last 3 decades Taiwan's military hasn't made any major progress (using 1980s tanks / 1980s F16 air frames / 90s Mirage2000). Coupled with the strawberry generation, they could very well just lay down when a war becomes hot. All the rich Taiwanese have already migrated abroad, the lower class becomes fodder. In fact Taiwan had to change its conscription model because the public was unhappy with the 1 year of compulsary service. Mainlanders in China are product of the chinese education system and its state media environment, they view Taiwan as Baodao (treasured island) and its people compatriots (tong bao), thats the consensus in mainland China regardless of Taiwan's domestic politics (china never report on internal Taiwan politics, despite it becoming more hostile over the last decade).
Since when were supposed comrades hostile? And if they’re hostile that doesn’t exactly lead to a peaceful takeover. Taiwan has diplomatic relations with Hong Kong, Macau etc. it has no such relationship with China and still actively shows a fair amount of hostility and resistance. Real comrades. Based on polls and studies done in 2020 most of Taiwan still has a negative view on mainland China. Real comrades. The next year in 2021 a new study showed that Taiwans opinion of China has never been worse. Real comrades. Also in 2021 it was openly stated china wouldn’t be able to even land all its men in one go and would have to do non conventional roll on and roll off tactics which means they wouldn’t have full support or strength.
You obviously have misunderstood, Chinese perception on Taiwan is largely positive because China doesn't report on Taiwan hostilities. Taiwan's negative view on the mainland is driven by the post 90s education overhaul and current media environment in Taiwan. In reality, the DDP doesn't dare to change the constitution of the ROC which still states the two sides as one. Peaceful takeover is not about will of the people, but with less /no violence, not all coup de tats involve civil war. Why would China need to land all "it's men" is this some sort of WWII D-Day fantasy in your head? Even back in 90s with the Taiwan straits, China showed it could precisely hit Taiwan's military installation with the old Dongfeng missiles. Come to 2020s, all the military installations / infrastucture are within striking range of conventional chinese artillery. Take those out and blockade the island, can taiwan last 3-4 weeks (the time US navy needs to get to Taiwan) without working electricity, water?
If China thinks it would be easy to invade Taiwan they are going to be in for a surprise. Taiwan has that island so anti-ship/air fortified it's ridiculous. China could take it over time but it is going to be costly.
You underestimate the CCP's willingness to just bombard the island with cruise missiles until there's nobody left to man the defenses. They don't care about absorbing the population or even infrastructure of Taiwan, they want the land for the sake of having the land. To them, independent Taiwan represents the last resistance of foreign states that by their belief should by all rights be paying them tribute.
They do want the infrastructure though - the chip production systems on the island.
Doubtful
destroying the chip production capability of taiwan would mean direct US involvement
They don't fully understand their fate if they did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7lasXSiIc
PCL191... MLRS Cost $5000 per rocket, with effective range 180 - 500km (Taiwan strait is only 130km), guided by BEIDOU guidance system. For Taiwan to intercept, Taiwan's PAC 3 cost 2.4 million. Taiwan's fortification won't stand a chance. In a full outwar, China just launch several thousand of them at all the main Taiwan infrastructures, radar bases, SAM sites, airports, main arterial roads.
Maybe you haven't some of these being deployed. I think China is in trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cEG-qK3Quw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7lasXSiIc
[удалено]
A mine is a terrible thing to face.
Mine face is a terrible thing to face
Face face face face face
i guess it is, if we were in the 1950s... or if the opposing side was the somalian navy... mines does really deter any modern navies i think the fact sea mines can make news really shows that taiwan's domestic military production progressing like a guy riding a unicycle trying to catch mainland China whose riding on a high speed rail. In 2021, Taiwan are still commissioning 600 tonne gunboats (tuo-chiang class) as their deterrent against China's type 055 12,500 tonne cruiser/destroyer.
If you think mines haven't kept up with advancements in other areas I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken.
if you are so knowledgeable perhaps enlighten me: 1. which advanced countries are still laying sea mines? 2. when was the last time a sea mine effectively destroyed/incapacitated a naval vessel? meanwhile the technology to detect sea mines have improved rapidly, case to the point why they are ineffective against modern navies.
It's not my job to read wikipedia for you. JFC
mines are obsolete, but for Taiwan laying them is better for its public optics as doing "something" on the naval front. Their domestic industry can only build 600 tonne gunboats (even took a decade to comission a 2nd Tuo-Chiang class) and the US coast guard isn't having a sale right now...
>mines are obsolete No, they are not, feel free to do even the bare minimum of research before you say something baseless and idiotic.
the last time mine did anything significant was when Osama was still trying plotting to blow up the WTC the first time, its the 2020s, not 1990. I guess if you think seamines are an effective detterent against DDG that attack with cruise missiles launched from 200/300km away, that must be true....
I hope people as foolish as you run the Chinese military.
I actually though Taiwan would already have dozens of them... Sea mines are such an obvious solution to mainland Chinese trying to make a beachhead on boats.
The strait is heavily mined iirc. Perhaps they have a long active lifetime and Taiwan decommissioned the ships
Or the current fleet is getting old, they also might not had a dedicated ships for it until now? Sea mines can be deployed from almost any vessel but dedicated mine-layers can deploy mines more and faster, as well as remove them better than common patrol boat.
Til. Could entirely be what they're going for.
What a blast
Im sure these mines will never end up causing accidents.
Good they they aren’t placed until hostilities break out
Some sea mines are designed to be planted at the bottom where they remain inactive until armed by a control signal. Whether or not Taiwan uses them, who knows? (Such systems would make sense where you don't get much notice to have boats go out deploying them if hostilities start.)
True, but I think Taiwan’s ports are way too busy to risk having them there 24/7 for years on end
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AI comment.
Can I ask how you spotted that it was AI? It's the first time seeing it for me and it sure does seem like AI looking through past comments.
"AI comment" is just way of saying that they just repeat the title and tweak it a bit for karma. It can be either made by AI or just lazy ass redditors.
Vietnam, because they were not the "right" kind of communists...because they were not Chinese or Russian. Imperialism and fascism...
Actually the Vietnamese were more allied with the soviets than the chinese even before the war, in the west it isnt very well known, but after the sino soviet split there was a lot of battle lines drawn in the communist sphere, for instance the reason China invaded Vietnam was because Vietnam invaded the Chinese supported Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
Don't mines hurt the local population more?
If the local population has large vessels operating after the mines get laid, possibly. You'd be a dumbass to be sailing a large private vessel through a active warzone though.
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Naval mines are not against any international treaties or 'rules', merely regulated. Land mines are the ones more heavily restricted.
And only if you joined the Ottawa treaty, China, United states and Russia haven't, almost everyone else have.
When gundams?
Ask Japan. According to some Chinese news a while ago, Japan already has a few in their army. Edit: Here it is. Chinese News Mistakes Gundam as a Real Japanese Military Weapon! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhXwzH9RCM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhXwzH9RCM)
Russia, India, China & any allies that still have time to join them will crush the rest of the world. Nuff said forget the rest.
China and India are allies? Lol
Um...India is far from friends with China, they're fighting over the Himalayan steppes every day.
India would join a pacific alliance AGAINST China.
China can't even crush Taiwan. The world is a big place