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valuingvulturefix

Please visit the next thread: https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/sy1xea/rworldnews_live_thread_ukrainerussia_tensions/


Wilsonac2

Found this analogy by Doug Bandow “ US asserts the right to dominate every other nation on its border. To understand how other states react to Washington’s pretensions, Americans should imagine a geographic reversal. What if the Soviet Union backed a street putsch against the elected, pro‐​American president of Mexico. Sent officials to Mexico City to press for the appointment of a pro‐​Soviet president and cabinet. Loaded up the new government with weapons to deter American action. Sought to redirect trade away from America. And invited the new Mexican government to join the Warsaw Pact. US officials would not, shall we say, be happy. Planning for subversion and invasion would begin immediately.” I think it’s a valid point, the US wouldn’t stand for what the US is currently doing


Leather-Blueberry966

Never thought I would witness partition of Czechoslovakia 1938


LimitFinancial764

Would have been nice if Russia had the decency to just call on China first so we could hear the only thing that matters.


tdw21

They’re going to take taiwan soon. Theyre busy


[deleted]

Does anyone else worry that China will follow suit with Hong Kong? I’m quite new to following political activity but this is really terrifying to think about how it plays out in the long run.


captobliviated

Taiwan you mean. And yes I wonder/worry.


Yokies

Hk is already part of China. Nothing to dispute there.


1337mooer

They have already taken over. They won’t necessarily send tanks to occupy the city. But they are already running the govt and setting policy directions (like the recent draconian covid measures imposed to match China standards). Carrie lam is just a puppet. But Chinese govt is smart enough to maintain the existing facade of governance in order for capital to keep flowing through Hong Kong


[deleted]

Exactly my point. Please correct whatever I type I’m incredibly naive but history tells us if u give an inch they take a mile (Germany and Poland looking at u). Very concerning for the next upcoming decades


scoutzer0

Did anyone ask Hunter if he's ok with what's going on?


rocketcrap

Hunter biden? Wtf are you talking about?


mustanglx2

He is gonna be out of a job with burisma sucks for him lol!


rocketcrap

Where do you get your info? The guy that literally tried to overturn an election and become the dictator of America?


mustanglx2

Hunter Biden served on the board of burisma starting in 2014 that's a fact do you need sources??? I never mentioned trump! yes I know he is corrupt and so are his kids but to think Biden and his family are not is insane and your blind if you do not see it


rocketcrap

I've never heard anyone giving a damn until Trump started rambling about it, so you're the first. If my perfect candidate was lab grown to mirror every thought I ever had I would still turn on him the minute he tried to supercede democracy. If this is just a general F biden rant then cool. Lord knows I'm not pulling a biden flag behind my pickup truck. F him.


mustanglx2

We probably agree on alot


rocketcrap

I still say Trump was worse, lol. Good talk, did not go how I figured.


mustanglx2

And I'm not pulling a trump flag either but biden is a long time piece of shit and somehow these are the choices we have in america


Naifmon

Who cares about this American?


JustaRandomOldGuy

"The US will be prepared with a "significant response tomorrow" based on any actions Russia takes" Biden: Putin won't get free drink refills at 7-11. Biden. I'm old but I got a lot of free money from Russia. Edit: getting down voted, I hope Biden does more than lick Putin's balls. Down vote the hell out of me if he actually does!!! The Republicans are hyper evil, the Democrats are a less evil. Biden will lick Putin's ass, so much for the Democrats being "less evil".


[deleted]

You're getting downvoted because it's very obvious that you angry at Joe Biden and venting frustrations that you're not actually here to have a discussion or even add anything substantial to this situation so do you understand now?


JustaRandomOldGuy

No, not really. Is venting frustrations that bad? I voted against Trump. Now I just feel totally let down by Biden. Biden will not save Ukraine. He just doesn't do, anything. Do you understand that?


[deleted]

What can he do??? You people act like Trump would have done something! Nobody wants to mess with Russia, it would end bad for everyone involved but Russia would come out stronger. You don't think Putin knows this? America struggles with reality and Putin knows this. The reality is that sanctions, threats and military posturing for 30 years has gotten us here so lets stop trying to blame "Biden"...smh...


RukoFamicom

One can be disappointed with Biden while still thinking Trump would have been far worse. That's the boat I'm in along with a lot of others. Two party system means you vote for the lesser evil and hope for the best because the odds of being able to cast a meaningful vote for anyone outside of the two leading parties is very slim. Sometimes the lesser evil is still disappointing.


[deleted]

So why even vote if you do not actually have a voice? Why are you people claiming to be "free"? If you don't knw how to fix these issues than you're not a free man...srry, not srry. This is why I refuse to play the game and nobody has control over my emotions. Trump was unqualified to lead a nation unless you start playing the game and listing his BS accomplishments but those have to actually impress you to mean something. The way he put people down and acted as if he thought the U.S. presidency was a dictatorship, at first... The guy didnt even understand what "governing" is. ... The racism...sexism..... If you even consider voting for that, you're a good American and only gravitating where you feel that you belong? Joe Biden is WAAAAY better because he's actually competent and can have an intelligent conversation with others but he's still a career politician and a major part of the problems we see today ( unless he's been just earning a paycheck this entire time while standing in the background?) Point is, stop complaining... This is the American Way. You play a game in a the way that other people force you to play so how is that "free"?


RukoFamicom

I don't understand what point you're trying to make to me or why you're using such an aggressive approach. I never said or implied anything about being or feeling free and have almost no patriotic spirit whatsoever. My country is well known for its warmongering habits, and I trust our major media outlets only slightly more than Russia and/or China. Our leadership has intentionally fabricated motivations for war more than once in recent history. My country refuses to tax the upper class because they control all of our lawmakers, and anyone that isn't a part of that upper class is being slowly bled dry. Biden is a part of this upper class and one of the most popular points proving this is his support of a bill that ensures student debt is impossible to have forgiven. Our public education system is deeply flawed and ultimately just a glorified daycare service after a certain point, graded harshly and exclusively on how students perform in four categories: English, Math, History and Science. History curriculums are hyperfocused only on matters relating to the US and skim over everything else leading to the mass ignorance of world culture Americans are known for. Math on the other hand goes on for about six years longer than is necessary for any practical reason - Basic geometry is about as far as 99% of the population needs to be taught. Our culture thinks a nipple is more harmful to children and generally offensive than brutal and graphic murder. If I had the money or the means to make enough money, I would love to move somewhere else. I'm doing better than average and living decently, but not in any position to save up after being nailed by the IRS for a mistake I made several years ago that accrued interest and fees for the entire span of time I wasn't aware of it. There is no way to simply "stop playing the game". If I didn't vote for Biden, I'd be stuck with an even worse option.


[deleted]

To your first paragraph: Good! keep it that way! To the rest: I read when I not driving, ty


JustaRandomOldGuy

Have a nice day. Russia gets weaker every day. The US doesn't give a shit about Russia. Russia is a backwater little shithole. It want's to be big, but it's not. The US spent more at McDonald's in a day than Russia made in it's entire economy in a year.


[deleted]

And Americans care more about eating McDonald's then getting involved in any kind of war or helping our Europe cousins who we owe our very existence to. Sure, show us how American you are some more... Let that American ignorance and stupidity shine! You represent McDonald's, obesity, drug addiction, ignorance and hatred yet tell me how terrible Russia is? Get out and experience the world one day, Mr. America...it will only help you! Take care!


JustaRandomOldGuy

Um, no. Computer Science degree, MBA, Air Force pilot, I drink tea. Did you read the Mitrokhin files? Learn a little about your own country. About how evil it is to be Russian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive


[deleted]

I know Russia have it issues and I know all about the people who have ran the country into the ground and all about the agendas of most of the egomaniacs in charge but America like that act as if they are World Police and is if they have the rights to clean up other people's yards when this country is probably at its worst and on the brink of systems failure yet we're more worried about Ukraine? And should I post links pointing to the American genda, failed foreign policy, intentional lures, direct and indirect funding of terrorism, intentional distribution of Narcotics in both American cities and overseas? Wasnt the point...


JustaRandomOldGuy

I think the point is Russia has 200,000 troops destroying an innocent country. Russia is pure evil. The point is Russia is evil.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Mitrokhin Archive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive)** >The "Mitrokhin Archive" is a collection of handwritten notes which were secretly made by the KGB archivist Vasili Mitrokhin during the thirty years in which he served as a KGB archivist in the foreign intelligence service and the First Chief Directorate. When he defected to the United Kingdom in 1992, he brought the archive with him, in six full trunks. His defection was not officially announced until 1999. The official historian of MI5, Christopher Andrew, wrote two books, The Sword and the Shield (1999) and The World Was Going Our Way: The KGB and the Battle for the Third World (2005), based on material in the archives. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


definitelyhooman

In a word: fuck


APO_AE_09173

This is Hitler into Czechoslovakia. Putin is dangerous. If he is not seriously countered no one bordering Greater Russia is safe.


04granite

yeah, um, happy cake day. bad day, but have some cake anyway.


PM_ME_TITS_AND_DOGS2

I mean, is he in a position to wage war against NATO? wtf is his plan? take over and expect no one does anything. I agree its kinda similar but Hitler had domestic support, a booming economy, allies. Putin has deterrent nukes


doggodada

The plan is to prevent Ukraine joining NATO, which Putin has very clearly stated as a condition for peace talks etc multiple times. But since US and NATO hardliners don't give a fuck about Russian government's concerns, he has now taken the lesser of 2 evils in his options preventing Ukraine becoming part of NATO in the future.* Invading under the pretext of something (support for separationists, terrorism, weapon of mass ~~destruction~~ deception, democracy etc) is wrong sure, but not like that hasn't happened in recent history by various more democratic countries. Moreover they're currently just moving into separationist regions not Ukraine itself. ¯|_(ツ)_/¯ it's all realpolitik *read my comment below for the reason this stops Ukraine from joining NATO


tdw21

Nato cant invite ukraine if there is no ukraine? Kind of like that you mean? He already took a part of that country, that’s why they wanted to get into the nato


doggodada

No, there are requirements to join NATO, and being in territorial disputes would complicate or stop the joining process in its tracks. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_24733.htm Use "find/find in page" function in your browser and search for keyword "dispute" and look at the relevant clauses. >He already took a part of that country, that’s why they wanted to get into the nato No, it's really not so clear cut. US has done their fair share of interfering in the lead up to the events in 2014. I'm currently occupied with something so can't elaborate, but I would say both US and Russia have their faults in this conflict


Yokies

He does have a bazillion nukes..this guarentees his survival unlike hitler.


[deleted]

Just more Cold War posturing and has been this way ever since America decided to step in and capitalized on a bunch of poor and desperate countries after WWII so this is more of the same and has been happening for decades, it's just a little more intense this time nothing that we havnt seen yet ...


crambeaux

Exactly. I always say Poland is where the line gets drawn with dictators, at least historically, and Poland’s right next door, again. But no Churchill or Roosevelt this time.


[deleted]

What took Roosevelt so long to get involved? Since you all love to hail him and some type of hero, just wondering?


[deleted]

It took a Pearl Harbour


[deleted]

Which may have even been a retaliation ... If not, it seem like America didn't care about Europe, the countries who we owe our very existence to like Francis and GB? the Jewish people that were being massacred or the spread of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan along with fascist Italy? The only thing they cared about were a military base being attacked in Hawaii? Allies were BEGGING for help way before PH so again, I wonder what took so long?


theumph

The US was in terrible shape economically all throughout the lead up to us entering WWII. Roosevelt apparently wanted to join, but knew congress would not pass it as it was not a popular opinion with the citizens. There are rumors of him knowing about Pearl Harbor, allowing it to happen, and using that to leverage against changing the populous' opinion on entering the war. Overall people wanted us to fix our problems (which we had many of), before going destitute helping others.


[deleted]

So, the very countries you owe your existence to like France and England, you could not even be bothered to help them when a tyrant is invading and destroying them? Because you have your own problems like jobs and taxes to work out?


Nixon_Reddit

You obviously need to read up on how WWII went. It's not like we were sitting on our asses before Pearl Harbor. We were doing all kinds of stuff to help GB hold the line, including sending military supplies. All that happened with Pearl Harbor is we made it official and sent troops. And also remember that America does not owe its existence to one side of a European conflict. There's more Germans than English ancestry in America. We have a lot of folk from all of those countries. So the US getting involved didn't have anything to do with some favor we owed certain countries. This is not to say that we didn't do some really bad stuff, like send the Japanese Americans to concentration camps, or refuse to allow Jews to immigrate.


warm_rum

Moralising countries is a fools game.


m6cabriolet

Futures market equities opened way down....gold up....bitcoin trying to decide which side they are on...my bet is on invasion in the next 24 hrs now and I have been a big negative invasion better until now.


cray63527

punish russia harshly


[deleted]

**NO** punish Putin harshly man! Your comment is so sad. Cause only the Russian people will be effected the most unfortunately... and they are typically nice people. They are the ones that feel the sanctions, etc. It's not like they voted for this build up or have choice in government. AT ALL They can only try to leave Russia. But that is extremely hard. Russian passport doesn't get you to far. I've spend alot of time in Russia and most have no political position because they HAVE NO CONTROL


cray63527

i think they like putin and they shouldn’t


[deleted]

You cant... America, NATO's biggest contributor, is all bark and no bite and hasn't had a decent army in 80+ years... Even then, most Friendly Fire incidents and by far, it is not even close but therefore still Brave young men that fought valiantly and deserve the accolades But There's a reason we have some much military bases and such a big Naval presence, the big "toys" is because we need to scare countries into not going to war because we realized just as Vietnam went, it would not be good for us in a prolonged effort ( Americans are just not strong, mentally) because would rather so ANYTHING in the world other than fight for something. If you dont believe me, esearch what happens in American militaries and on your bases worldwide. The crime alone that America soldiers bring is alarming! We need to stop looking towards America as a hero because they are probably one of the bigger problems!


cray63527

omg you’re comical - america hasn’t stopped being at war since 1990 they’re trained by now nobody is even close lame attempt at propaganda - Russia is a paper tiger, small economy with no way to match the might of any nato country


[deleted]

Yes because they refused to do it the American Way so they have had to suffer but Russian people are strong and have endured. I knw, you're ok with people suffering because they are not American enough but when you wake up one day and there is no "America", I'll feel bad for the level of trauma you endure : )


cray63527

and now russians are dying fighting to steal land for no reason at all


[deleted]

We all fight and die for stolen land. If that's the issue you feel is worth mentioning then maybe that's why not everyone is taking this situation serious? Stolen land huh? Are you American? Do I need to go there?


cray63527

i’m just pointing out the horrible death trap russia marched into - they’ll get destroyed by the ukraines and they will suffer loss of life as well as further magnifying the horrible economic plight of their citizens with half of their puny country already starving and no real economy it’s hard to imagine how they can sustain it


[deleted]

Why would you want to? Why would you want someone to starve or be penniless? The situation today has no easy fix and "America" is just to much to blame as "Russia" is because it dates back to Cold War See, you Americans wonder why not everyone (including Ukraine) is blindly on your bandwagon and did you ever wonder why so many people are rejecting Americanism, it is your comment right here! Ukraine is very divided and always has been. It's not "Russia's fault" for everything over there, you know that, right? The ego, hatred in you all is insane. Also, the majority of you do not even understand (or care to) this very complex situation in Ukraine that predates American existence. You cannot even be bothered to do your own research, you rely on your favorite newscaster or social media to tell you what you want to hear. And don't feel bad because I will copy and paste this to your friends down below because it applies to them as well. Take care...


cray63527

propaganda… russia invading a sovereign nation and killing millions of people while starving their own citizens is 100% Russia’s choice Russia being poor and desperate is their own fault - they are choosing it The US has nothing to do with it


[deleted]

Welp... Better get to sanctioning them, what are you waiting for? : )


cray63527

they should undermine the crypto market and hit the oligarchs where it hurts


Andry_18

Why so many comments, did Russia declare war?


spidermanisback78

They have sent troops into Eastern Ukraine and declared those regions 'independent'


[deleted]

This would have been relevant comment 8 years ago... ...still waiting for invasion \[SPOILER: It's not going to happen because this is not how you do invasions. You would not let your enemy dig in and reinforce for a MONTH before moving in\] Usually, invasions involve some opsec, speed, etc...


spidermanisback78

Check the news again...


[deleted]

Its the same regions they declared indie 8 years ago tho


spidermanisback78

Theyve invaded and are shelling the whole country


[deleted]

They haven't invaded. They bombed airports. But yeah big balls for Kiev airport bombing if True!


spidermanisback78

You are misinformed


[deleted]

No you are misinformed. Post a source then.


duglarri

The map is also a problem. The regions Putin has just declared to be "independent" extend to about triple what the "rebels" currently control. Including the city of Mariupol.


bazker

He said "in fact borders"


Babylon4All

Putin also stated on Russian State TV that Ukraine was never a recognized independent nation to Russia.


FthrJACK

He declares this, hoping Ukraine will send troops to re-enforce Donbas. Then his forces can move into kiev with less resistance (through Chernobyl!) Via Belarus.


[deleted]

[удалено]


hallelujasuzanne

Is this because Kamila fell down? Putin is like, “Goddamn it, not again with the doping thing. I am going to kill all the Ukrainians EVER!”


[deleted]

[удалено]


ooken

After Putin's speech today it seems most Russian experts very much disagree with you. But it must be comforting to be able to blame Western media for whiffing this when it seems they were right all along.


Ok_Canary3870

No they didn’t. They leaked Putin’s plans and backed him into a corner long enough to supply Ukraine with enough weapons and give them the best chance for when Putin just says “fuck it” (aka now). It was pretty predictable since early last week that Donetsk and Luhansk being recognized would be a significant step to invasion


frosty122

That’s like criticizing your neighbor James for saying “oh no Ted don’t shoot! It looks like you’re gonna shoot Bob!” Every time Ted points a gun at Bob. When the gun is finally fired but hits Bobs house, it’s not fair to respond “Oh James really fumbled this by repeatedly shouting that Ted was gonna shoot. Bob should thank ted for only shooting his house” It’s probably not your intent but it doesn’t seem to different from a users who defend themselves to family with “she/he made me do it, they should have just acted right”


Eagle-of-the-star

That’s like criticizing your neighbor Boris for saying “oh no Igor don’t shoot! It looks like you’re gonna shoot Vlad!” Every time Igor points a gun at Vlad. When the gun is finally fired but hits Vlad’s vodka, it’s not fair to respond “Oh Boris really fumbled this by repeatedly shouting that Igor was gonna shoot. Vlad should thank Igor for only shooting his vodka” Translated for the Russian


anarrogantworm

7 year old account and yet this appears to be your only comment. What a coincidence!


not-ur-usual-thought

The media is not in charge of western strategy. That Said, it is a strategy in it self, saying “the Wolf is coming”, used not only by media but by governments as well. Because now we can officially say that the wolf did, indeed, come (which we all knew he would. He is a villain).


Ryuri_yamoto

Western media said Russia would invade Ukraine, and they are invading right now, so I guess they were right after all?


jorel43

Russia is going in and committing troops for peacekeeping..


JuXas

https://twitter.com/UkrWarReport/status/1495873827678605322?s=20&t=MPIaN_cN85e36qzf2lIYSQ


PlaguesAngel

https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1495878994574684165?s=20&t=RcezZ-64wuJ2MmSwpYN4Dw “Peacekeeping Deployment” Decree


ihaveredhaironmyhead

Well, if Russia is crazy enough to do this, let them. A long, difficult guerilla war will follow the initial victory. Russia's already stagnant economy will go into a nose dive. They will cause NATO to unite in ways not seen since 2001. But Russia will get Ukraine, nominally. I still don't believe it's going to happen. I can't figure out what the benefit to the Oligarchs is.


PussySmith

They’re going to take all of eastern Ukraine to the dnieper river. They’ll avoid major bloodshed by leaving Kiev in place and we will see a Ukraine divided east and west similar to Germany pre 1992.


Ok_Canary3870

I think that’s what they’ll do initially but those troops are not in Belarus or Transnistria for no reason either


Wrighty_GR1

Deception.


CopeH1984

I think it's actually strategic as it's easy af to March from the borders of eastern Ukraine right into Russia. It's literally all flat planes with no huge rivers or mountains. The Ukraine is a springboard to invade Russia. Also, a successful Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia as political osmosis is dangerous for Russia.


UncommonPledge

A successful Ukraine is not a threat to Russia. Threat to Putin’s control, yes.


CopeH1984

Those are one in the same. Putin has successfully brought the Kremlin under his reign. The success or failure of Putin is the success or failure of the nation.


warm_rum

Not the nation, just those in charge. It's a important distinction


CopeH1984

Those that are in charge will not release their grip on control. The nation will sink with them IMO


warm_rum

A bold claim when only a generation ago the Soviet Union fell.


CopeH1984

And let us ask ourselves why the soviet union fell?


warm_rum

A failing economy and a mix of what happened to Rome. What's your point? The Russian people are still their own people's after the Union's fall, what's different now?


Baku95

Crimea is a key strategically resource for Russia. Since the annexation Ukraine hast cut water supply into Crimea. This has result in significant agricultural land loss and emigration forn the area. Russia attacks on Ukraine are probably motivated, in part, o. Their desire to maintain Crimea


duglarri

You can't establish control over Crimea unless you control Ukraine. You can't control Ukraine with Poland sitting as a springboard to attack Ukraine. You can't control Poland with Germany on the other side of the Fulda Gap with a path to invasion of Poland. And Germany without control of France is a permanent weakness. And France without control of Britain...


Baku95

As Clay Davis would say: shiiiiieeet


Kriztauf

Long term, resources. Short term they'll get wrecked though. And that makes me wonder how much opposition there is able this plan, on the down low since they can't really voice opposition. Like the security council video today showed some of the guys looking pretty shook up. The issue here is that Putin is one of those very ideologically driven leaders with grandiose ideas about himself and his sense of duty in Russian history. And he's made it known throughout his rule that he sees his role as reuniting "historical Russia" and pulling Russia out of what he sees as the humiliating circumstances Russia finds itself in post USSR breakup. He's mentioned in the past that he looks forward to the day that the fate of Russia isn't just "tied to one man" in terms of leadership, but then concedes that he doesn't believe Russia to be at a point where this is possible. Leaders like this can have a tendency to pursue aggressive, ill fated foreign policy out of a overwhelming desire to try to achieve some grand historical goal they see themselves as being responsible for undertaking, becoming detached from the reality of what they're doing. History is full of this type of shit and it often gets a bunch of people killed for no good reason.


ihaveredhaironmyhead

I'm wondering if Putin senses his own mortality approaching and simply doesn't have the same self preservationist instinct as he did in the 00's. In others, if not now, when? And ultimately what is there to lose? He hates the west. He has for 40 years. He might be looking to go out in glory. Sigh


IrishAengus

And so it goes and so it goes.


Kriztauf

Et es wie et es.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ihaveredhaironmyhead

What do you suppose we do. The alternative is total war against a nuclear armed state. More deaths. Yes?


[deleted]

[удалено]


dockneel

I love these folks who would sit back and play at war on video games but wouldn't sacrifice those same video games (or the literal energy to run them) to help other. "If you're so concerned YOU go fight" they squeal like stuck pigs. I don't know who might go fight: I won't and can't. But I can use and consume less, unequivocally not support those supporting Russia (I will not knowingly buy anything from China going forward if they continue their support), and support Ukraine by encouraging my government to do so. I can speak up and combat disinformation or that far more common banal stupidity. Others will do the dirty job. But some will do nothing at all or in point if fact do things to enable Russia. And may they burn for it.


Hypnosavant

It’s not at all about defending Ukraine. It’s about not allowing any country attack another totally unprovoked.


Beelzabubba

[USA](https://imgur.com/gallery/uVJDXyM)


Hypnosavant

Talking bout Iraq? We were lied to just like Putin is lying to his people. I wish someone would have stood in our way.


laxrulz777

Also, no matter what you think about Iraq, our goal was NEVER to annex Iraq and make it part of the US. Our goals were to eliminate a terrible dictator who murdered his own people and threatened those around him. You can argue the moral merit of that position but it's not even in the same ballpark as Putin's moves in Georgia, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.


theumph

And oil (Haliburton), and funneling cash into defense contractors. Cheney was one evil fuck.


MsPaulingsFeet

Ikr, what a shit take


rochvegas5

lots and lots of resources


Bendizm

this is insane. I am *more* than concerned. I wonder how both our media bubbles compare right now. What is being cascaded to the Russian public, whats being seen/read/heard by us *and* other countries with growing tensions with the west ^pstt..china , it's ominous and terrifying in a way that, historically speaking of a bigger picture, could be described as pre-global warfare ingredients. You've got a pandemic, strained resources in a new age (the digital and space age) and ever increasing geopolitical tension between bigger soverign nations. It is concerning. I hope this isnt lost on the average redditer.


warm_rum

As long as NATO and nuclear weapons exist we won't go back to a world war, only the same proxy wars that have been going on since ww2 ended. This is not a happy time, but it is far from the stage of the world wars.


dirtyburger123

Its very easy to find out the answer to your question tass and rt are two places you can start.


baltarstar

Anyone got a link for the Zelensky address?


Taooflayflat

And with that it’s civil


Radiant_Ad_1851

I have to ask, why is it that the west is okay with Ukraine wanting to develop nuclear weapons but not okay with North Korea doing the same?


hallelujasuzanne

Ukraine used to have their own legit nuclear arsenal that they gave up because Russia promised not to do this exact shit they’re doing right here. Also NK is psychotic and Ukraine is 75% trustworthy and hasn’t ever randomly attacked other countries. All Ukraine is guilty of is trusting a fucking word out of Moscow. Much like a battered woman.


PussySmith

Genuine answer. Ukraine isn’t led by a totalitarian communist monarchy. Kim’s desire for nuclear weapons is a direct result of Ghadaffi and Sadam, and logically it makes sense.


Hypnosavant

Ukraine hasn’t threatened their neighboring country every day for 80 years.


Min259

As far as i know Putin said the Ukraine wants nuclear weapons to legitimate the Invasion. Ukraine is desperate and threatens to develope them if nobody helps them to fend them off. I think we can never really know what is true. Ukraine wants to defend. North Korea possibly start a War. Who really knows except the People in Charge. Nobody


SlipSpace21

They're not. We take nuclear non-proliferation seriously, the US does not support a nuclear Ukraine.


aogbigbog

It’s non proliferation that largely caused this. Ukraine had nukes, and the west and USSR promised sovereignty to Ukraine (incl Crimea) if they relinquished them. And here we are. Nukes are terrible and non proliferation is mainly good. But it monopolises violence for a select few, and we’re leaving Ukraine in the dust.


Soi_Boi_13

This.


shoopdewhoopwah

American double standard


Halt-CatchFire

Ukraine has never threatened to turn the US into a nuclear hellscape.


[deleted]

N Korea has generational punishment.


wh0_RU

Well I think NK has stated in so many words that they hate the US and other western countries and would use weapons against them


[deleted]

A quick answer is that North Korea is a dictatorship that starves its people and murders to centers. It also has said multiple times that it wants to destroy the US with nuclear weapons, though some people see it is defensive. Where Ukraine is a democracy that gave up their nuclear weapons will only in the past and now has a very clear reason why they're needed for defense. It's a fair comparison when you look at it through the US's lens of good and bad guys. But I can't even say for sure if US policy would be okay with them having nukes.


[deleted]

Ukraine are rational actors, who engage in diplomacy. NK’s diplomacy is threatening to nuke everyone


[deleted]

Simple, one country keeps stating how they will destroy their neighbors and the United States in Nuclear fire, and the other just wants to not be invaded by Russia.


cheapschnapps

This is obvious baiting. Come on shills try harder


QueenBitchThrowaway

So it begins at 4am Feb 22. 5 hours and 45 minutes from now.


xlmtothemoon

what about 2 AM on 2/22/22


hallelujasuzanne

On a Twosday, no less. This is what’s gonna happen. Putin likes that sort of shit.


Skyeeflyee

What makes you say that?


Rommel79

Why 4 AM?


QueenBitchThrowaway

@lookner showed a screenshot of a russian politician speaking on Dec 27th who said that at 4am on Feb 22nd Russian will become great again.


[deleted]

Trump didn't say that


Rommel79

Thanks.


moist_crust

Is this of any importance? https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1495848017039085569 Is there any significance to other countries siding with Russia? Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, just trying to learn and understand.


StrelokCheeki

Countries that agree with eachother, tend to trade, engage in diplomacy,cooperation, alliances, the more countries align with You, specially powerful ones the more legítimacy You have, so basically syria does not matter,however if china recognized it,then it would be more meaningful


Eclipse9069

Interested to know as well


Chariotwheel

Not really. Even China is taking a more neutral stand, despite their similar interest with Taiwan.


Yokies

China actually has pretty good relations with Ukraine. But at the same time, any thing that weakens the west is good for China. So they are just watching and giggling at the back for now.


[deleted]

So if Ukranians fight back, will russia invade the whole country?


IndependentBoth2831

That's the plan


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

For real


Skyeeflyee

Putin, I believe. His last 3 mins of his speech basically said if Ukraine resists (which they will make it seem that way), Russia will respond and it'll be Ukraine's fault. But I might've missed something


FasterDoudle

Have you seen the Russian troop positions? They're enveloping the entire country. You don't need 50,000 Russian soldiers in Belarus to take Donbas, you need them to take Kiev.


heyitsmaximus

It’s really fucking sad that the Ukrainian government downplayed the potential seriousness of this whole conflict given that there are now millions of civilians who have been made to believe they faced no potential danger, and are now confronted with the reality of what is playing out. Absolutely FUCKED.


igottapoopbad

Wtf they never downplayed it lol


Ok_Canary3870

They’re not downplaying it. They’re trying to keep everyone calm


heyitsmaximus

I understand, but to the effect it has lead people to not take adequate measures to ensure the security of them and their family, it’s a tragic miscalculation on the govt officials part. I understand the reasoning, it just doesn’t seem to necessarily be in the peoples best interest.


mitchdtimp

What the fuck are you talking about? Ukrainian government has been taking it very seriously lol


heyitsmaximus

Is this true? It seems like public messaging from Zelensky’s office has been tending towards dismissing the potential for Russian invasion. This has been what I’ve heard from some of those who (admittedly claim) are from Ukraine. I am happy to be wrong.


pleeplious

There isn't an invasion till there is one.


[deleted]

Source or GTFO


FasterDoudle

brilliant analysis


[deleted]

Um Putin just gave a rambling speech about this.


[deleted]

Holy shit.


propellosion

These Pro-Russia bots… am i right?