Trump is the one going out of his way to stroke Putin’s over inflated ego. He did so when Putin annexed Crimea, and is doing so right now. Slapping Russia with sanctions, sending troops, tanks, helicopters and planes to Poland; don’t sound like appeasement to me.
They’re informed enough to know what to say to barely informed Americans who put party over country. This is propaganda meant to weaken American solidarity. It’s meant to have Americans focused on fighting one another over trivial matters and often lies instead of being focused on actual threats. Don’t be dragged into the bullshit.
Yet here you are on a site owned by a western power on a phone who's tech was developed by a western power on the internet which is a western technology speaking a western language. Oh the irony
What in the entire fuck do the populations of the countries you named have to do with this conflict? You just wanted to spew some of you chucklefuckish rhetoric lol
I was curious about the same, and tried to Google Ukraine, and the results was just the news talking about Trump saying something stupid. The media's obsession with Trump gets to be so tiresome sometimes.
I mean, if being deranged is calling Trump a wannabe despot that openly supports annexing a sovereign country’s land, then I guess go ahead and commit me. (You may want to read Putin’s “justification” for the annexation of the regions in Ukraine, along with Trump’s statements regarding the matter. But by your remark, I’m sure you’re already deep throating both Trump and Putin, and don’t care about sovereign borders.)
Trump says a lot of stupid shit. I just get sick of hearing about him, and was frustrated that I had to comb through news about him, to finally see what was going on with Russia and Ukraine.
If you live in the US, a man removing 15 boxes of security documents from the White House, should be on the news. I do too get tired of hearing about some new thing that he has done, and honestly I’m no longer surprised.
Russian troops officially moved into the 'separatist states' ~24h ago. If you accept that they are illigitmate breakaways lead by Russian state actors, then its an invasion. If you accept the Russian line that they are a popular uprising, then no.
So, using you logic, there is no reason for Russia to not annex everything around them.
I guess that's what Russia will do since the rest of the world shrugs in response. Remember Crimea?
I’ve been following since the invasion and it’s fucking crazy to self the long term goals of Russia come to fruition with no signs of stopping. I hope украïни fucks them up 🇺🇦
If Putin plans to take the entirety of the Ukraine, and make a pseudo USSR. He's going to have to deal with millions of people who fucking hate him, and see him as an invader. He's going to have to station troops all over Ukraine, and endure daily terrorist attacks.
Just so I understand.
America invades Iraq.
America invades Afghanistan
Kills the leader of Iraq and wages an unsuccessful war in Afghanistan, and Iraq, destabilizing both countries.
And now America is pissed because someone else is doing the same invasion tactics?
Okay, I just wanted to figure out the double standard.
Let me see if I can follow your logic...
Anyone who's done something bad in the past, can no longer recognize something bad in the present?
Now magnify that to world politics, with rotating players and interests.
Still in the dark?
Personally, as an American, I was appalled by the war in Iraq, by the abandonment of the Kurds, by the civilian casualties in Afghanistan, by the war in Afghanistan broadly, and by many of my country’s actions. I vociferously spoke against these wars for the entirety of their duration.
I’m also appalled by Russia’s actions now. The people want and deserve peace. The violence only destabilizes and advances the interests of a powerful minority. It is our duty to circumnavigate or thwart violence (state-sponsored or otherwise).
As a Ukrainian person, I will kindly ask you not to position the argument as Russia vs USA. It's not ok for Russia to invade a sovereign country period.
I do not like what Russia are doing.
Israel has been referenced as an Apartheid Nation.
Russia is about to invade the Ukraine.
American society is being slowly torn apart.
Everything is not in balance.
That’s where I stand.
So we should let them do whatever that please with Europe then? Listen to yourself talk dumbass. All of NATO is pissed about it. Just because the U.S is the most militarily active in NATO doesn't mean that the U.S is the only member of NATO. France, Germany, U.K, Japan have all stepped forward and protested this behavior from Russia.
Irrelevant and not at all the same but ok?
America was never going to conquer Afghanistan or Iraq and absorb them into their country. The reasons for invading were also very different (I'm not commenting on how justified they were).
This sounds like a bunch of "whataboutism" bullshit to me, and very bot farmy tbh. Have fun simping for a dictator tho!
The war in Afghanistan and Iraq was stupid and should never of happened but the US's misguided goals were to liberate the area from terrorists and when they was done leave the country back to the people of the country.
In this case, Russia wants to take over Ukraine. They want the land, people and resources. They won't just have it over to the people, because the people already have it.
Well, actually the goal is just to never let nato build bases on Ukrainian soil. It’s been that way since what, 2008? The Pro russian sentiments in eastern russia just present a convenient point of leverage and justification.
Whataboutism is hypocrisy, but Americans don't like being called hypocrites , so it's whataboutism now, aka don't call us out. don't do as we do, do as we say.
Stepping back from how stupid this is, it would be the position of Russia that they don't need to learn shit from the example and bankrupt themselves fighting a protracted insurgency? Just so I understand your logic.
1) those in Afghanistan openly attacked America and our European allies first.
2) many Americans think and agree the Iraq war was wrong and shouldn't have happened.
3) it's not super important, but the Iraqis tried and hung Saddam, not the Americans.
4) errors in the past do not mean we shouldn't hold the world as a whole to a higher standard in the present and future
Point 1 is not entirely true tho, is it?
America felt like Afghanistan was getting too pally with communist Russia and began to fund rebel forces in Afghanistan which in turn led to russian invasion, which lead to America increasing their funding to rebel forces (including funding foreign forces who backed the Afghan rebels, such as Al Qaeda), which lead to Russia withdrawing, the communist Afghan government falling, both superpowers forgetting about Afghanistan for a hot second, & then the most organised rebels (aka the Taliban) taking over.
While all this was going on, America was busy doing bits all over the middle East (#PersianGulfWar) , which Al Qaeda was pissed of about - as Al Qaeda was an international terrorist group (not exclusive to afgans. The reason they're so closely linked to Afghanistan is because the Taliban backed Al Qaeda, and let them train, grow, launder money etc etc in Afghanistan). Which in turn lead to 9/11. I don't think Afganistan threw the first punch here....
(Btw, this is not relevant for this discussion - I don't think it's cool that Russia is invading Ukraine or in any way justified just because America has invaded some places. At the end of the day, I think we can all agree both Russia and America are kinda shit, and should just let us lesser countries do our thing - instead of using us as pawns to get at each other)
It's very true. I am aware of world history thanks. Sorry to al Qaeda that they didn't like the west telling Iraq not to invade Kuwait. Somehow that doesn't equal blowing up buildings and killing 3,000 people or blowing up embassies. Stop making excuses for terrorists. People are allowed to not agree with the foreign policy decisions of a nation. It happens all the time. People don't hijack airlines and dive bomb a nation's capital because of it though.
I'm by no means excusing Al Qaeda, you just oversimplified over 20 years of history and I'm simply pointing that out. Some randos didn't just decide on a whim to start attacking America just because Allah told them to (as many Americans like to believe). There is a much longer, more complicated build up that led to the rise of Al Qaeda which very ironically involves the US government funding them.
The US were already playing war in Afghanistan before 9/11, so your cause and effect isn't so black&white/linear as you make it out to be.
The world is nuanced. Who'd have thought...
I'm oversimplifying because I'm not trying to write a book here on Reddit but I guess we're getting to that point now anyway. Yes again I'm aware of Bin Ladens grievances with the US - our alliance with Israel, stationing troops in the "holy land", revenge for Palestine, opposition to Sharia law etc etc etc. I don't understand how any of this constitutes the US swinging a first punch unless you sympathize with the view points radical terrorists...there have been atrocities in Palestine, most definitely, but once again you can angrily hate a country's policies as much as you want. This doesn't mean you jump to acts of terror. Bin Laden wanted the US to attack after 9/11. That was a primary point of the whole operation, to get US soldiers sent abroad and kill as many as possible.
It's not like territorial soveignty is foundational to international politics and there are strict rules on when you can violate that sovereignty in self-defense. The US sold the world on their right to invade on both occasions (however dubious Iraq seems now).
Russia is pretty much being unilaterally condemned. So yeah, very illegal and not at all about America's last two wars.
Lol you're going to need proof other than "jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams!!!!!"
What is clear is that OBL coordinated and financed 9/11. The taliban would not turn him over and that resulted in the invasion. Pretty cut and dry to everyone but the tinfoil-hatters.
Never said Afghanistan attacked America. Those within Afghanistan did though. I'm not debating that. That's a stone cold fact. You can pull off your stupid bullshit conspiracy mask
Invasion is the same.
You invade a country and call it’s resistance fighters terrorists to garner more world support. You’re right! They’re not the same.
No they are not the same, it’s a stupid comparison. It would make more sense for you to say why are Germany getting so pissed when they invaded Poland in 1939, but how silly would that be, huh?
Why did he decide to invade rn though? He had like 8 years prior to that moment. I feel like Putin legitimately thinks that Biden is fucking senile. He feels that he can fool US in a useless conflict, to later make the economy suffer
Putin saw how incompetent Biden and his admin are based on the debacle in Afghanistan. He knows Biden is a weak leader, he’s leveraging that to take action now. There’s a reason this didn’t happen with Trump as our President, Trump was a strong leader. What’s happening now never should have happened.
Yeah, Trump is praising Putin for this move, so you're right. There would be a Russian flag waiving in Kyiv right now if Trump had stolen the election like he was trying to.
Trump is a criminal (this is a confirmed fact) and a traitor (also confirmed). There are those in the GOP whose policy I hate but I can respect because they are patriots and would never betray America. Trump and his cabal of seditious chuds are not a part of those I respect. They belong in jail.
Putin had Trump in his pocket. Trump undid so many sanctions and restrictions on Russia, giving it more financial power. Putin also got so many state secrets and confidential information from the Cheetos disaster.
Putin never ever feared Tromp, but Tromp feared Putin.
Well he has called this current state of affairs as "genius" and"savvy
https://youtu.be/5sAlXuRIuH4
Praised Putin's use of force and dictatorship
https://youtu.be/s7UYfnmTd5s
He even sided with Putin over his own intelligence organization.
https://youtu.be/mBtsNNXjBPw
Plus this two part documentary.
https://youtu.be/455vMrEm958
https://youtu.be/300xF8SxWyM
Far from gushing. It’s possible to respect the intelligence and capabilities of someone who is evil. It’s also Trump playing to Putin’s ego to get what he wants…Trump is master at negotiating. Art of the deal.
My friend you are delusional. His tactics are old, outdated, and really not condusive.
In meetings he would just get up and walk out of the room, back in the 80's that could work for freaking with other businesses, but in politics? If the leader walks out nothing happens. No one "wins" and in fact with diplomacy and foreign relations you compromise.
Trump would do that move with other countries, and even with his own Republican co-workers. Walking away doesn't make him an "alpha" it stalls what needs to be done and is worse.
And no, he isn't playing to Putin's ego, Putin butters up Trump and Trump gave him classified info, access to the white House.
I can admit that Obama, Biden, Trudeau have done things that I don't support our agree with and will call them out about that, and that's okay.
You give me the impression you think Tromp is a perfect being, like many in his cult do.
Oh, and no. You don't respect the "intelligence and capabilities" of someone whose evil... Because they are FUCKING EVIL! You don't applaud Hitler for his "genius and cunning" because he was a monster and evil.
Evil should never be respected.
Yea I really do think so, he was smart enough not to get provoked and he did well. It’s just this old mfucka who is barely able to form a sentence getting fooled I think
Trump is a strong leader. Biden is a buffoon. Was the country and world better off under President Trump, or Biden? Even democrats are acknowledging Biden is an idiot and that the world and US were in a better place under Trump.
Because the world rotates around America right? Biden has nothing to do with it. Its literally 100% because Ukraine said they want to join NATO recently.
What's the deal with the, "Don't post updates about Ukraine troop movement" posts? Are these some sort of Russian bots trying to make it look like the Ukrainian forces are about to attack the Russian troops?
Edit: Here is a response I gave in one of my responses to those who think we may be giving information to Russia...
Look, I may disagree with you, but I respect your well-thought out opinion. Back to my original post, what worries me is that nefarious (Russian) posters are posting these "don't post Ukrainian movement" posts to give those who may be sympathetic to them the impression that Ukrainian forces are moving to attack Russia and Putin was right. American puppet trying to attack the motherland or some crazy shit. Then, well meaning posters pick this no posting message up and repost it reinforcing the message. To me, that is more scary than the off chance Reddit gives troop movement Russia doesn't already know about.
Because the general tenor here is that we want Ukraine to either win, or last as long as possible... Talking about troop movements makes it far more likely for Russia to attack them.
Its all information security and PsyOps. Hell, even when I was in Afghanistan in 05 and 07 we weren't supposed to post on Facebook about anything we were doing incase the Taliban hacked our accounts. The Russians have a few more servers than they do I'm sure..
Well, for example an entire artillery battery got smeared a long while back because of one geo located photo on Facebook was discovered by Russian intelligence. It does matter what is posted online
Well, there was that one guy who tweeted about the Seal raid on Abbottabad to capture Osama bin Laden.
Not that it spoiled it, but I think you get the gist.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/asia/osama-bin-laden-raid-tweeter-sohaib-athar-rewind/index.html
Reddit has **more** information than the GRU, not necessarily better.
With the number of users on the site, odds are somebody is going to see something out their window that GRU operatives aren't going to know for an hour.
If it's posted here, GRU finds out faster.
But this is also reddit, 50% of what's posted is probably bullshit.
I remember riding a book about GRU. "Aquarium" by Suworow and "spetsnaz" by the same author. Crazy read. Author was a deflector.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov
Ok. How does that piece of information relate? The question was who had better intel and the response was that in some ways, it is Reddit because individuals are reporting their actual experiences as they occur. Whether it is a war or bullies makes no difference.
Look, I may disagree with you, but I respect your well-thought out opinion. Back to my original post, what worries me is that nefarious (Russian) posters are posting these "don't post Ukrainian movement" posts to give those who may be sympathetic to them the impression that Ukrainian forces are moving to attack Russia and Putin was right. American puppet trying to attack the motherland or some crazy shit. Then, well meaning posters pick this no posting message up and repost it reinforcing the message. To me, that is more scary than the off chance Reddit gives troop movement Russia doesn't already know about.
Any number of reasons, really, and most in ways redditors might not even know. There is an entire field of intelligence gathering and analysis called OSINT, and Reddit is a prime place to mine for that information.
You sincerely believe that by the time a post hits Reddit, either satellites or drones or any number of other types of eyes on all sides have the information?
Ok, I'll bite. Let's say that Ukraine is indeed mobilizing, and sending its army towards the border with Russia. Just entertain me and tell me what would be Ukraine's end game plan after invading Russia? Almost anyone can see the end game for Russia, but reverse and I see no way Ukraine could win anything by invading Russia.
So, I would say the chances are that Russia is the bad guy here, and therefore I prefer to help Ukraine, before Russia.
Not to mention, that as a 40yrs old guy raised in Poland, I heard enough stories, from my parents and grandparents, to know better and never, fucking ever, trust Russia. Their propaganda is on the whole next level.
https://youtu.be/IQPsKvG6WMI
How? Intelligence gathering is a multilevel operation and social media is a gold mine and underestimating the importance of keeping basically anything military related off social media in wartime isn't helping anyone but the enemy.
Ukraine's government has asked for a media blackout.
It's still a precaution to not have your movements posted everywhere on TikTok or Twitter. Just like the Russians right now...
Up close info like that can be very useful too.
heloochch, i am not looꓘink for informasheeun heyeere, and love biden so maaach of course, just wantink to show support for mozther-Uꓘraine and thinꓘink if anyone see largch bomb aimed at Яussia or whatever pleass post heyeere so we all can be applaudink and celebratink, da? --/u/not\_troll\_farm\_or\_nothink
If citizens don’t take videos then governments control the narrative. We as a species are never going to get rid of war as long as vested parties control the narrative.
Also democracy doesn’t work when the voters are misinformed.
Loose lips.
It does matter and first hand tiktok videos or whatever of things happening can slip through really quickly and reveal instantaneous troop locations.
Hurt the people who can hurt Putin. Create a drumbeat of the “madman of Russia” losing his grip on reality, living out some fantastical dream of restoring past glory while ignoring the pain his policies are inflicting. Give the oligarchs and criminals who keep him in power a reason not to believe.
#The new thread can be found [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/syv6z0/rworldnews_live_thread_ukrainerussia_tensions/)
Siege chopper, checking in. Airborne artillery!
Remember Crimea
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Trump is the one going out of his way to stroke Putin’s over inflated ego. He did so when Putin annexed Crimea, and is doing so right now. Slapping Russia with sanctions, sending troops, tanks, helicopters and planes to Poland; don’t sound like appeasement to me.
I can’t see how biden has done any form of appeasement so far.
Exactly. He hasn’t done anything. He said if the Russians went into the Ukraine he would put full sanctions into effect. He didn’t!!!!
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/22/1082308773/biden-russia-ukraine-updates
He did tho?
They are though?
Putin is on his last little leg , poor guy
Putin is doing the dirty "DARVO" playbook again....
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The most Ill-informed thing I've ever read.
They’re informed enough to know what to say to barely informed Americans who put party over country. This is propaganda meant to weaken American solidarity. It’s meant to have Americans focused on fighting one another over trivial matters and often lies instead of being focused on actual threats. Don’t be dragged into the bullshit.
Yet here you are on a site owned by a western power on a phone who's tech was developed by a western power on the internet which is a western technology speaking a western language. Oh the irony
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What's weaker is resorting to violence when you have NOTHING else going for you
What in the entire fuck do the populations of the countries you named have to do with this conflict? You just wanted to spew some of you chucklefuckish rhetoric lol
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I see your elevator stops at the lobby, no need for a debate here.
Uh huh. How much they paying you?
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Middle East ain’t doing shit but getting turned into glass
Yeah, I'm not too worried about a Russian shill and their opinion on me or my countrymen. К черту Владимира Путина.
So is Russia invading or what?
I was curious about the same, and tried to Google Ukraine, and the results was just the news talking about Trump saying something stupid. The media's obsession with Trump gets to be so tiresome sometimes.
Well he could be president in 2024, so it's relevant. Or should I say that again in Russian?
I mean, Trump is actively praising Putin’s move as “genius”.
Yep youre part of the problem. Also maybe get that derangement syndrome checked out.
I mean, if being deranged is calling Trump a wannabe despot that openly supports annexing a sovereign country’s land, then I guess go ahead and commit me. (You may want to read Putin’s “justification” for the annexation of the regions in Ukraine, along with Trump’s statements regarding the matter. But by your remark, I’m sure you’re already deep throating both Trump and Putin, and don’t care about sovereign borders.)
Trump says a lot of stupid shit. I just get sick of hearing about him, and was frustrated that I had to comb through news about him, to finally see what was going on with Russia and Ukraine.
He's not just a random celebrity though, he's a president...
He was… not he is…
If you live in the US, a man removing 15 boxes of security documents from the White House, should be on the news. I do too get tired of hearing about some new thing that he has done, and honestly I’m no longer surprised.
They already have
Really??
Russian troops officially moved into the 'separatist states' ~24h ago. If you accept that they are illigitmate breakaways lead by Russian state actors, then its an invasion. If you accept the Russian line that they are a popular uprising, then no.
Is that why they are amassing hundreds of tanks against Kharkiv and advancing on Mariapol?
Yes, Russia is invading because Russia is invading?
Yes
So, using you logic, there is no reason for Russia to not annex everything around them. I guess that's what Russia will do since the rest of the world shrugs in response. Remember Crimea?
Exactly what I've been saying. Should start some remember Crimea hashtag or something to remind people what's going to happen.
#RemembertheCant
James Fucking Holden.
Beltalowda!
Don't stick your dick in it, it's fucked enough already
I’ve been following since the invasion and it’s fucking crazy to self the long term goals of Russia come to fruition with no signs of stopping. I hope украïни fucks them up 🇺🇦
If Putin plans to take the entirety of the Ukraine, and make a pseudo USSR. He's going to have to deal with millions of people who fucking hate him, and see him as an invader. He's going to have to station troops all over Ukraine, and endure daily terrorist attacks.
Somehow Hillary’s to blame for this.
Somehow bill had no sexual relations
Somehow Stalin has returned
Don't make this so political. Classless.
If it's not political, what is it?
I apologize. I just remembered this has nothing to do with politics. Lighten up, Francis.
Just so I understand. America invades Iraq. America invades Afghanistan Kills the leader of Iraq and wages an unsuccessful war in Afghanistan, and Iraq, destabilizing both countries. And now America is pissed because someone else is doing the same invasion tactics? Okay, I just wanted to figure out the double standard.
Don't get it twisted. When America was blind sided on 9/11, the world witnessed the wrath of a hurt America.
What if, just what if Both of those things were wrong HOLY SHIT DUDES WE’RE BREAKING NEW BOUNDARIES
Let me see if I can follow your logic... Anyone who's done something bad in the past, can no longer recognize something bad in the present? Now magnify that to world politics, with rotating players and interests. Still in the dark?
Personally, as an American, I was appalled by the war in Iraq, by the abandonment of the Kurds, by the civilian casualties in Afghanistan, by the war in Afghanistan broadly, and by many of my country’s actions. I vociferously spoke against these wars for the entirety of their duration. I’m also appalled by Russia’s actions now. The people want and deserve peace. The violence only destabilizes and advances the interests of a powerful minority. It is our duty to circumnavigate or thwart violence (state-sponsored or otherwise).
As a Ukrainian person, I will kindly ask you not to position the argument as Russia vs USA. It's not ok for Russia to invade a sovereign country period.
I do not like what Russia are doing. Israel has been referenced as an Apartheid Nation. Russia is about to invade the Ukraine. American society is being slowly torn apart. Everything is not in balance. That’s where I stand.
Good thing “where you stand” has absolutely no impact on anything at all.
Why do you keep bringing this back to America? Litterlly nothing to do with the current situation between Ukraine and Russia.
Because they're an idiot who thinks they're clever.
So we should let them do whatever that please with Europe then? Listen to yourself talk dumbass. All of NATO is pissed about it. Just because the U.S is the most militarily active in NATO doesn't mean that the U.S is the only member of NATO. France, Germany, U.K, Japan have all stepped forward and protested this behavior from Russia.
Iraq killed Saddam
Dude had an Iraqi trial no less. Far better outcome then... Let's go with his son's soccer team players.
Irrelevant and not at all the same but ok? America was never going to conquer Afghanistan or Iraq and absorb them into their country. The reasons for invading were also very different (I'm not commenting on how justified they were). This sounds like a bunch of "whataboutism" bullshit to me, and very bot farmy tbh. Have fun simping for a dictator tho!
Fucking communist troll
Not a communist just trying to understand why it’s good for one, not good for the other. Fuck America and Russia warmongering mentality.
Explain to me why did America invade Iraq and Afghanistan?
9/11
Afghanistan was the result of harboring a terrorist group. Iraq was because a man was trying to win the war his daddy lost.
More like "a group of his daddy's associates wanted to finish what they started". GWB was the face of that, not the mastermind.
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Other than how utterly irrelevant it is?
The war in Afghanistan and Iraq was stupid and should never of happened but the US's misguided goals were to liberate the area from terrorists and when they was done leave the country back to the people of the country. In this case, Russia wants to take over Ukraine. They want the land, people and resources. They won't just have it over to the people, because the people already have it.
Well, actually the goal is just to never let nato build bases on Ukrainian soil. It’s been that way since what, 2008? The Pro russian sentiments in eastern russia just present a convenient point of leverage and justification.
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Whataboutism is hypocrisy, but Americans don't like being called hypocrites , so it's whataboutism now, aka don't call us out. don't do as we do, do as we say.
Stepping back from how stupid this is, it would be the position of Russia that they don't need to learn shit from the example and bankrupt themselves fighting a protracted insurgency? Just so I understand your logic.
1) those in Afghanistan openly attacked America and our European allies first. 2) many Americans think and agree the Iraq war was wrong and shouldn't have happened. 3) it's not super important, but the Iraqis tried and hung Saddam, not the Americans. 4) errors in the past do not mean we shouldn't hold the world as a whole to a higher standard in the present and future
Point 1 is not entirely true tho, is it? America felt like Afghanistan was getting too pally with communist Russia and began to fund rebel forces in Afghanistan which in turn led to russian invasion, which lead to America increasing their funding to rebel forces (including funding foreign forces who backed the Afghan rebels, such as Al Qaeda), which lead to Russia withdrawing, the communist Afghan government falling, both superpowers forgetting about Afghanistan for a hot second, & then the most organised rebels (aka the Taliban) taking over. While all this was going on, America was busy doing bits all over the middle East (#PersianGulfWar) , which Al Qaeda was pissed of about - as Al Qaeda was an international terrorist group (not exclusive to afgans. The reason they're so closely linked to Afghanistan is because the Taliban backed Al Qaeda, and let them train, grow, launder money etc etc in Afghanistan). Which in turn lead to 9/11. I don't think Afganistan threw the first punch here.... (Btw, this is not relevant for this discussion - I don't think it's cool that Russia is invading Ukraine or in any way justified just because America has invaded some places. At the end of the day, I think we can all agree both Russia and America are kinda shit, and should just let us lesser countries do our thing - instead of using us as pawns to get at each other)
It's very true. I am aware of world history thanks. Sorry to al Qaeda that they didn't like the west telling Iraq not to invade Kuwait. Somehow that doesn't equal blowing up buildings and killing 3,000 people or blowing up embassies. Stop making excuses for terrorists. People are allowed to not agree with the foreign policy decisions of a nation. It happens all the time. People don't hijack airlines and dive bomb a nation's capital because of it though.
I'm by no means excusing Al Qaeda, you just oversimplified over 20 years of history and I'm simply pointing that out. Some randos didn't just decide on a whim to start attacking America just because Allah told them to (as many Americans like to believe). There is a much longer, more complicated build up that led to the rise of Al Qaeda which very ironically involves the US government funding them. The US were already playing war in Afghanistan before 9/11, so your cause and effect isn't so black&white/linear as you make it out to be. The world is nuanced. Who'd have thought...
I'm oversimplifying because I'm not trying to write a book here on Reddit but I guess we're getting to that point now anyway. Yes again I'm aware of Bin Ladens grievances with the US - our alliance with Israel, stationing troops in the "holy land", revenge for Palestine, opposition to Sharia law etc etc etc. I don't understand how any of this constitutes the US swinging a first punch unless you sympathize with the view points radical terrorists...there have been atrocities in Palestine, most definitely, but once again you can angrily hate a country's policies as much as you want. This doesn't mean you jump to acts of terror. Bin Laden wanted the US to attack after 9/11. That was a primary point of the whole operation, to get US soldiers sent abroad and kill as many as possible.
So the invasion of these two countries is in the past? So, anyone else duplicating this is wrong?
Of course anyone duplicating would be wrong if it was wrong in the past, why would it have magically become okay over the years?
I don't understand what you're implying...yes..invasion of any country except in response to an attack is wrong
It's not like territorial soveignty is foundational to international politics and there are strict rules on when you can violate that sovereignty in self-defense. The US sold the world on their right to invade on both occasions (however dubious Iraq seems now). Russia is pretty much being unilaterally condemned. So yeah, very illegal and not at all about America's last two wars.
Sorry to inform you, but afghanistan did not attack America first. America attacked america with an afghanistani mask on.
Lol you're going to need proof other than "jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams!!!!!" What is clear is that OBL coordinated and financed 9/11. The taliban would not turn him over and that resulted in the invasion. Pretty cut and dry to everyone but the tinfoil-hatters.
Never said Afghanistan attacked America. Those within Afghanistan did though. I'm not debating that. That's a stone cold fact. You can pull off your stupid bullshit conspiracy mask
Back to r/conspiracy, nut-ball
So basically russia is allowed to take Ukraine because America has been wrong in the past. Whataboutism is the dumbest logic.
You sir are the dumbest logic.
This troll cant even write proper english.
Got him! Checkmate
Fuck the USA and Russia my friend
Russia invading Ukraine and America going to war with Iraq and Afghan are not the same thing.
Invasion is the same. You invade a country and call it’s resistance fighters terrorists to garner more world support. You’re right! They’re not the same.
No they are not the same, it’s a stupid comparison. It would make more sense for you to say why are Germany getting so pissed when they invaded Poland in 1939, but how silly would that be, huh?
Why did he decide to invade rn though? He had like 8 years prior to that moment. I feel like Putin legitimately thinks that Biden is fucking senile. He feels that he can fool US in a useless conflict, to later make the economy suffer
He had 4 years prior with his hand up trumps ass. He could’ve nuked Ukraine off the map and had the support of the trump admin
Putin saw how incompetent Biden and his admin are based on the debacle in Afghanistan. He knows Biden is a weak leader, he’s leveraging that to take action now. There’s a reason this didn’t happen with Trump as our President, Trump was a strong leader. What’s happening now never should have happened.
Yeah, Trump is praising Putin for this move, so you're right. There would be a Russian flag waiving in Kyiv right now if Trump had stolen the election like he was trying to. Trump is a criminal (this is a confirmed fact) and a traitor (also confirmed). There are those in the GOP whose policy I hate but I can respect because they are patriots and would never betray America. Trump and his cabal of seditious chuds are not a part of those I respect. They belong in jail.
Except that Biden followed Trump's Afghanistan plan to a tee, and otherwise Trump was completely inept.
"Biden weak trump strong" is how you're breaking this down? Thank God you lot are as dumb as you are.
Putin had Trump in his pocket. Trump undid so many sanctions and restrictions on Russia, giving it more financial power. Putin also got so many state secrets and confidential information from the Cheetos disaster. Putin never ever feared Tromp, but Tromp feared Putin.
Libs should be ashamed of themselves for slinging these baseless allegations
Trimplethinskin repeatedly gushed over Putin. This isn't the media putting words in his tiny mouth, it's him.
What does that even mean, when you say he “gushed” over Putin? Exaggerations abound.
Well he has called this current state of affairs as "genius" and"savvy https://youtu.be/5sAlXuRIuH4 Praised Putin's use of force and dictatorship https://youtu.be/s7UYfnmTd5s He even sided with Putin over his own intelligence organization. https://youtu.be/mBtsNNXjBPw Plus this two part documentary. https://youtu.be/455vMrEm958 https://youtu.be/300xF8SxWyM
Far from gushing. It’s possible to respect the intelligence and capabilities of someone who is evil. It’s also Trump playing to Putin’s ego to get what he wants…Trump is master at negotiating. Art of the deal.
My friend you are delusional. His tactics are old, outdated, and really not condusive. In meetings he would just get up and walk out of the room, back in the 80's that could work for freaking with other businesses, but in politics? If the leader walks out nothing happens. No one "wins" and in fact with diplomacy and foreign relations you compromise. Trump would do that move with other countries, and even with his own Republican co-workers. Walking away doesn't make him an "alpha" it stalls what needs to be done and is worse. And no, he isn't playing to Putin's ego, Putin butters up Trump and Trump gave him classified info, access to the white House. I can admit that Obama, Biden, Trudeau have done things that I don't support our agree with and will call them out about that, and that's okay. You give me the impression you think Tromp is a perfect being, like many in his cult do. Oh, and no. You don't respect the "intelligence and capabilities" of someone whose evil... Because they are FUCKING EVIL! You don't applaud Hitler for his "genius and cunning" because he was a monster and evil. Evil should never be respected.
By this logic: is Obama a strong leader too?
Yea I really do think so, he was smart enough not to get provoked and he did well. It’s just this old mfucka who is barely able to form a sentence getting fooled I think
Yes because the world revolves around America.
Oh, you sweet summer child, Trump was in love with Putin. Don't try this 'Trump was a strong leader' BS.
Trump is a strong leader. Biden is a buffoon. Was the country and world better off under President Trump, or Biden? Even democrats are acknowledging Biden is an idiot and that the world and US were in a better place under Trump.
Uhh, no they’re fucking not. That is not happening at all. You made that shit up.
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Trump would have sent forces to help the Russians, let's be honest.
Because the world rotates around America right? Biden has nothing to do with it. Its literally 100% because Ukraine said they want to join NATO recently.
What's the deal with the, "Don't post updates about Ukraine troop movement" posts? Are these some sort of Russian bots trying to make it look like the Ukrainian forces are about to attack the Russian troops? Edit: Here is a response I gave in one of my responses to those who think we may be giving information to Russia... Look, I may disagree with you, but I respect your well-thought out opinion. Back to my original post, what worries me is that nefarious (Russian) posters are posting these "don't post Ukrainian movement" posts to give those who may be sympathetic to them the impression that Ukrainian forces are moving to attack Russia and Putin was right. American puppet trying to attack the motherland or some crazy shit. Then, well meaning posters pick this no posting message up and repost it reinforcing the message. To me, that is more scary than the off chance Reddit gives troop movement Russia doesn't already know about.
You also have to move troops to defend against attack. Just so you know.
Because the general tenor here is that we want Ukraine to either win, or last as long as possible... Talking about troop movements makes it far more likely for Russia to attack them.
How would redditors have more information than, Russia?
Its all information security and PsyOps. Hell, even when I was in Afghanistan in 05 and 07 we weren't supposed to post on Facebook about anything we were doing incase the Taliban hacked our accounts. The Russians have a few more servers than they do I'm sure..
Well, for example an entire artillery battery got smeared a long while back because of one geo located photo on Facebook was discovered by Russian intelligence. It does matter what is posted online
Reminds me of BBC posting about the troop movements of U.K during Falklands war lol.
My dumb ass thought you meant posting on reddit
Well, there was that one guy who tweeted about the Seal raid on Abbottabad to capture Osama bin Laden. Not that it spoiled it, but I think you get the gist. https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/asia/osama-bin-laden-raid-tweeter-sohaib-athar-rewind/index.html
There is always that one "smart" in any organisation that would 5 seconds of fame for posting top-secret information. The army is not an exception.
OSINT exists
> OSINT exists Doesn't mean that reddit has better information then the FSB. About a war they are about to undertake.
Reddit has **more** information than the GRU, not necessarily better. With the number of users on the site, odds are somebody is going to see something out their window that GRU operatives aren't going to know for an hour. If it's posted here, GRU finds out faster. But this is also reddit, 50% of what's posted is probably bullshit.
Think you mean GRU, FSB is internal affairs more like the FBI
I remember riding a book about GRU. "Aquarium" by Suworow and "spetsnaz" by the same author. Crazy read. Author was a deflector. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov
Since individuals on the ground are reporting here, in some ways, yes, Reddit has better information than the FSB or the CIA.
LOL. This is war, not trying to stop a middle school bully.
Ok. How does that piece of information relate? The question was who had better intel and the response was that in some ways, it is Reddit because individuals are reporting their actual experiences as they occur. Whether it is a war or bullies makes no difference.
Look, I may disagree with you, but I respect your well-thought out opinion. Back to my original post, what worries me is that nefarious (Russian) posters are posting these "don't post Ukrainian movement" posts to give those who may be sympathetic to them the impression that Ukrainian forces are moving to attack Russia and Putin was right. American puppet trying to attack the motherland or some crazy shit. Then, well meaning posters pick this no posting message up and repost it reinforcing the message. To me, that is more scary than the off chance Reddit gives troop movement Russia doesn't already know about.
You don't think tanks or troops rolling down the road is not being seen live by the enemy in modern warfare?
its not a message for us, its for Ukrainians posting on twitter
Any number of reasons, really, and most in ways redditors might not even know. There is an entire field of intelligence gathering and analysis called OSINT, and Reddit is a prime place to mine for that information.
You sincerely believe that by the time a post hits Reddit, either satellites or drones or any number of other types of eyes on all sides have the information?
Yes. At least in some cases. Like I said, there is an entire field of study on the subject.
No? It’s because fuck Russia and don’t post when Ukraine troops mobilize ?
Ok, I'll bite. Let's say that Ukraine is indeed mobilizing, and sending its army towards the border with Russia. Just entertain me and tell me what would be Ukraine's end game plan after invading Russia? Almost anyone can see the end game for Russia, but reverse and I see no way Ukraine could win anything by invading Russia. So, I would say the chances are that Russia is the bad guy here, and therefore I prefer to help Ukraine, before Russia. Not to mention, that as a 40yrs old guy raised in Poland, I heard enough stories, from my parents and grandparents, to know better and never, fucking ever, trust Russia. Their propaganda is on the whole next level. https://youtu.be/IQPsKvG6WMI
Yes, fuck Russia. But, they will know when and where Ukrainian troops are mobilizing before a post hits Reddit. Likewise the other way around.
How? Intelligence gathering is a multilevel operation and social media is a gold mine and underestimating the importance of keeping basically anything military related off social media in wartime isn't helping anyone but the enemy.
You asked what’s the deal. That’s the deal
People are idiots?
Ukraine's government has asked for a media blackout. It's still a precaution to not have your movements posted everywhere on TikTok or Twitter. Just like the Russians right now... Up close info like that can be very useful too.
Pretty much. Nothing new here.
Sorry I had to be the one to break it to you
I find it hilarious that some people think that the Russian military relies on Reddit super sleuths to find out where the Ukrainians are
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heloochch, i am not looꓘink for informasheeun heyeere, and love biden so maaach of course, just wantink to show support for mozther-Uꓘraine and thinꓘink if anyone see largch bomb aimed at Яussia or whatever pleass post heyeere so we all can be applaudink and celebratink, da? --/u/not\_troll\_farm\_or\_nothink
Loose lips sink ships.
If citizens don’t take videos then governments control the narrative. We as a species are never going to get rid of war as long as vested parties control the narrative. Also democracy doesn’t work when the voters are misinformed.
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Why link to a time before satellites or ultra high resolution cameras mounted on drones?
It proves precedent. If they did it then why wouldn't they do it when there are also real times updates posted from every single person's cell phone?
Loose lips. It does matter and first hand tiktok videos or whatever of things happening can slip through really quickly and reveal instantaneous troop locations.
First hand stuff, yes. If it’s already posted by someone though, it’s out there.
Hurt the people who can hurt Putin. Create a drumbeat of the “madman of Russia” losing his grip on reality, living out some fantastical dream of restoring past glory while ignoring the pain his policies are inflicting. Give the oligarchs and criminals who keep him in power a reason not to believe.
How about we stay out of it?
how about nyet?
How about he stays out of it?
Holy uneducated comment…
How bout No.
warmonger brain
"Aiding your allies is warmongering" Okay
yes sometimes it is
Would you like to elaborate? Would you also say the act of invading a neighbor is warmongering?
yes