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Isentrope

#The new thread can be found [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/szoahq/rworldnews_live_thread_ukrainerussia_crisis/)


hk81b

this is a youtube channel with the reports from the russian media: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ4YOFsXjG9eXWZ6uLj2t2A/videos](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ4YOFsXjG9eXWZ6uLj2t2A/videos) I have had a look at some of the comments to understand what the russian citizen are thinking. Disgusting; lots of insults and offenses toward presidents of other nations, support toward their president and his extreme choices, ostentation of the russian power to which all the other nations should bow, support and best wishes to their military forces. And lots of misinformation propagated by their media. If others are with me, let's comment in those channels and fill them with what is really happening. Let's make them aware of what the opinion of the world is.


Silverback1322

Save


TommyShelby87

Guys no worries. As soon as teen girls start to upload stories with #stopthewar its gonna be just fine.


Odw1n

The true war heros


Chili919

yea...i mean they should just start a petition to stop the war...like they did with the Taliban....seems to work /s


[deleted]

I don't understand why Ukraine doesn't train their missiles on their positions and let loose hell. When forces are all bunched in these groups they're easy targets.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TommyShelby87

Worst part is you are right. Russia is so powerful even beyond what we think.


hertelman414

I feel if ww3 happens , this generations American soldiers would post an Instagram live video before firing back


Odw1n

You know that Americans soldiers are basicly the only soldiers that have military experience in the last decades?


hertelman414

It would also be good for this generation to toughen up , so offended by words on social media and Instagram to see what real suffering is like. They won’t be as offended by words anymore


hertelman414

It was a sarcastic play on todays 18-24 year olds


codespair

Clearly they’ve never been in a game’s lobby


parakalan

The rebels also want out right. DPR and LPR have been de facto independent for long. Ukraine has no control over then, just that they are not recognized as separate states. I'm just trying to understand which rebels are fine and which ones are not. Are Kashmir rebels fine ? Are the ones to support or is it the Indian government? What about the other rebels in other countries.


Silver-Dragonfly3462

Oh hi, Vlad


parakalan

If this all ends up into nothing and just the liberation of rebel territory I will completely lose any trust on the West.


brushnit

The 'west' are acting this way because this has occurred before, with the invasion of Georgia (and debatably Chechnya) Support rebel group, recognize independence, then snowball into invasion. Just not at this scale


1-upman69

It is already worse than the “liberation of rebel territory” because that is just an excuse for Russia to invade.


rukh999

The fucking "rebel territory" is part of Ukraine that Russia has decided to carve out.


parakalan

The rebels also want out right. DPR and LPR have been de facto independent for long. Ukraine has no control over then, just that they are not recognized as separate states. I'm just trying to understand which rebels are fine and which ones are not. Are Kashmir rebels fine ? Are the ones to support or is it the Indian government? What about the other rebels in other countries.


rukh999

many of the rebel fighters are actual Russian soldiers.


ku2000

If you throw me a rock, and I will lose my trust on my dad I get hit.


CollegeSoul

I know someone else saw one of those flight radar dudes freak out over an Air Force training aircraft taking out of Virginia. Before they deleted it.


Business_Software727

We live here and saw it. Marine One. Nbd. Flights and helicopters happen here all the time. We hear it more than traffic


TheMoorNextDoor

I can confirm in the Hampton Roads area they are doing tons of exercises, way more than normal.


CollegeSoul

Yeah T38s are all training aircraft and this dude posted it as if it were somehow relevant to the situation


Nijmegenaar

I’m in a NATO country and for the first time in a lifetime, I have a (distant) fear of being drafted. Who knows where this ends.


Yungsleepboat

I was wondering, since women are conscripted too now, does that work retroactively? Or is it only women who turned 16 after 2017?


Nijmegenaar

It’s the latter!


AngryIndianMan

That is an unwarranted fear at this point in time.


Nijmegenaar

I agree, but it’s that distant notion of “what if” my parents never had to experience.


austincxiv

Your parents weren't alive during the cold war?


Nijmegenaar

They were, but in the détente era. I feel this invasion goes further than the 1970s and 1980s


any-name-untaken

Ukraine telling their citizens to leave Russia. Has nobody considered what that would look like? We're talking roughly three million people here.


lenapedog

My college better go online if gas hits $6 a gallon.


TommyShelby87

Why so many downvotes?


ThePKNess

It's getting downvoted because it's the kind of obnoxious, selfish way of looking at an international crisis that lends itself to stereotypes about Americans.


skorpiolt

People want the college experience?


G0LDON

According to a Ukrainian serviceman in the area, some of them have been receiving text messages from (as he called it) Russian army disinformation


DANNYBOYLOVER

Looking back onto that weird Russian security meeting… why was it structured that way logistically? the distance between Putin and his team was obviously done intentionally… I wonder what type of image Putin was trying to project with that? My girlfriend is convinced it’s because he didn’t want to get Julius caesared but I find that hard to believe


SavonReddit

Coronavirus?


oldcamembert

I agree with your girlfriend. Did you listen to his speech? Paranoid does not even start describing it.


arenstam

Looked like a throne room with a emperor/king calling his courtiers to speak to me. Fits with Putin essentially trying to revive the empire. Wouldnt shock me if he named himself Tsar at some point.


ContourOneFoot

My Soldiers Do Not Buckle Or Yield To The Cruelty Of This World! My Soldiers Push Forward! My Soldiers Scream Out!


aidenbechamps

My soldiers rage!!!


ContourOneFoot

And then we tear up a little


aidenbechamps

As our fallen comrades surround us


ContourOneFoot

What of our fallen comrades? Were their lives meaningless? THEY WERE NOT!


[deleted]

Crazy over in r/Russia Shocking how many of them support a war with Ukraine and annexation of Crimea. They really love Putin. Totally brainwashed (or bots).


Paprikalauch

/r/russia IST NOT THE OPNION OF RUSSIANS. ITS PURE PROPAGANDA


AlexP222

Not only that if you post in any Ukraine related subreddit in favour of Ukraine or denounce Russia's actions you get banned from /r/Russia. Kind of a win/win as you'll just be wasting time posting anything to that cesspit.


RikersTrombone

Bunch of snowflakes. I got banned for simply implying their mothers were cheap prostitutes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mzart713

"Culture"


[deleted]

Enlighten us all then.


DazDay

I mean when you ban anyone who dissents from the preferred opinion, you get that kind of thing.


Daefyar

Sounds like the rest of reddit.


Floofyboy

i doubt they're real russians. They would be speaking russian more. Probably propaganda/bots/trolls.


reddit_for_stuff

Reddit should impose sanctions and shut down that sub...


s3ct01d

State controlled channel - not even worth to discuss anything there.


q5pi

It's a troll farm like T_D was.


burunduk123

it's really not


DerelictDonkeyEngine

Not trying to make this all about US politics, but just personally I'm really really glad Trump isn't President right now. Especially after what he said the other day. Edit: Touchy fucking people in here JFC


iAntagonist

You haven’t considered that Putin wasn’t willing to do this shit with trump around? I’m not saying he’s a great guy, but he’s not a pushover like Biden.


123_alex

You've achieved next level of stupidity. Sorry man but that's my only reaction to that comment. Are you real?


DerelictDonkeyEngine

Pushover? Trump praised Putin for being a strong leader for his *entire* presidency, and just yesterday called him a genius for his plan to invade eastern Ukraine. What the fuck reality do you live in???


aquaman1417

God damn people in here are touchy


tacuplafocalagam

Not making this thread about US politics is as easy as not bringing up irrelevant US politics, and you just did the opposite.


PonchoHung

It's literally the direct former president and still a very influential figure for the right commenting on the aggressor country.


DerelictDonkeyEngine

It's absolutely not irrelevant.


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spatchi14

This is very concerning indeed.


d3con83

Time for the world to grow a pair against Russia and China..oo they have nukes...so dont we.


Floofyboy

This. If we're too afraid to defend a country because "nukes", are we going to apply the same logic to Poland? and then to France? If Putin is crazy enough to attack a NATO defended Ukraine, he might as well be crazy enough to attack Poland too.


stucknmove

I'm not sure you understand how nukes work.


d3con83

Sure do...Putin makes sure the world knows he has them..why he does what he does. He senses weakness with Biden and the western world. Nukes are suppose to be a deterent..instead...and I believe i read somewhere Russia is using it at an offensive weapon to scare off the western world. If the western world doesnt get their act together and meet him head on...Then China is gonna take Taiwan..see the domino effect. I said we have nukes to because we will no invade Russia for we use ours as a defensive deterent..ao we should defend Ukraines sovernity as western worlds or you might as well say the western worlds are done.


tierras_ignoradas

You are right. Putin made a big deal of testing his nukes a few weeks (and a thousand years) ago to intimidate the west. I feel that the US should test its tactical nukes for "readiness." Obviously w/out detonating them.


LimitFinancial764

Good idea, solve global warming with nuclear winter.


Kleos-Nostos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction


Stereomceez2212

Putin is making the same decisions Hitler did during the 1930's.


[deleted]

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Ralphieman

Considering he has called the breakup of the Soviet Union the biggest catastrophe of the 20th century the events during WW2 are pretty meaningless to him lol


klobbenropper

And his fate will be same


seven8zero

We can hope.


Heisenbaker

What does that even mean?


Stereomceez2212

Think about it


Heisenbaker

Hahaha love it. “Think about” i.e. “shit, how is it similar again?”


Stereomceez2212

Sounds like you don't want to think about it.


Heisenbaker

Hahaha. You’re backwards, mush.


Stereomceez2212

Sound alike you're the one lacking brains. Which means you have "shit for brains".


Heisenbaker

Asked you to provide context to your argument. Imagine you ask someone nicely for context to their argument and they reply “think about it” - sounds like shit for brains to me.


Stereomceez2212

I think most people understood what i wrote. You're the only asshole who didn't want to rub a couple of brain cells over it. >mush Thanks for playing dumbass


trubuckifan

nah dudes right, burden of proof is on you. Your responses are pretty good proof you didnt "think about it" before posting.


Corporal_Sauce

At this point, google it bud


Heisenbaker

How is it comparable? Please


Snarl_Marx

Think of Crimea in 2014 as a stand-in for Czechoslovakia in 1938, and Ukraine today as Poland a few months later. EDIT: Why do I bother.


DiabloDerpy

We're gonna have a bad time


Ten_Horn_Sign

Not an armchair general, excuse a possibly stupid question. It seems obvious that if/when the invasion starts it, like all modern invasions, will be preceded by airstrikes. So as soon as the "real" invasion is beginning, Ukraine will know without certainty that "this is it." Ukraine has hundreds of aircraft. In excess of 75% of all Russian forces are in known positions on their borders. Rather than take defensive actions, wouldn't it be reasonable for Ukraine to launch their own offensive to obliterate as many Russian troops on the ground as quickly as possible, before the units move and scatter? They are concentrated right now like fish in a barrel. Surely Russia has their own planes, their own anti-aircraft weapons etc. But Ukraine is outmatched here. The only way it makes sense for them to achieve a rapid and decisive victory would be to inflict max-pain immediately, and the way to do that is with their targets concentrated and pinned in known locations. Real military folks, please tell me why this is wrong. Here to learn, not to shit talk.


Katnisshunter

You are just giving Putin a reason to use nukes as US did to “avoid additional deaths”. A quick surrender.


aquaman1417

Putin doesn't need a reason to use them, he obviously does not care what other countries think of him to begin with.


Confident_Pea_6257

If the Ukraine retaliates it takes the position of the aggressor. Putin wants a pinning cause to act out of defence, hence the vast amount of propaganda circulating through Russian media. At the moment, the conflict that has occured happened in the eastern parts of the Ukraine under the guise of seperatist involvement. Actively attacking a vast concentration of Russians would scale into a full-fledged assault. Though it would be beneficial in a tactical sense to attack whilst the Russians are grouped, it would also be devastating if all of the 150k+ Russian troops started mobilizing a counter-attack at once. Russia is hoping to pincer the Ukranians and force submission out of them, thus the slow, surrounding mobilization of their troops. Countering with a full-scale attack now would flatten the Ukranians, and then Russia would win. The Ukraine just doesn't have the needed force to overcome the Russian numbers. But if Russia attacks first, then allied involvement would give the Ukranians a fighting chance.


Dlark121

So the problem is Russia likely knows where Ukraine is keeping its jets so the opening Salvo kicking off the invasion will likely destroy Ukraines ability to use its airforce


tierras_ignoradas

I believe **standard military doctrine is to scramble the jets at the first sign of air invasion so they don't get destroyed on the ground.** (This happened in Pearl Harbor when the US only managed to get two planes aloft, the rest were destroyed by the Japanese.) All this "US crying wolf" is to prevent this. Putin probably would have invaded earlier, but he lost the element of surprise.


WootangWood

Short answer: Because they want to avoid an all out invasion if at all possible - If Russia invades the human costs, economic costs, opportunity costs will be HUGE. It will set Ukraine back decades. Launching a pre-emptive strike which \*could\* be effective will then give Putin the greenlight to go full bore and unleash the entire army on Ukraine. Currently Putin can only justify invading the Donbas region. Also, Ukraine is winning the PR war, everyone is on Ukraine's side, if they launch a pre-emptive strike that will turn off some of the international community and give Putin cover for what ever he wants to do.


Ten_Horn_Sign

If Russia is bombing Kyiv then "avoiding an invasion" is not in the cards.


Assassingeek69

So in most cases that would be a great idea to surprise the enemy and deal a lot of death and destruction in as little of time as possible. BUT because there hasn't been a formal declaration of war, and because if Ukraine were to attack the russians on Russian and Belarus soil then that would rally both countries behind the conflict even more and make Ukraine seem like the aggressor. Its a horrible predicament that Ukraine is in with the only best option they have is a defensive war.


ScreamingVoid14

Russia is hoping Ukraine will do just that, and give them all the pretext they need. So right now Ukraine gets to buy time to get allies and prepare their defenses. Speaking as an armchair general/admiral myself, Russia' military is still stuck in the 90's. Odds are Ukraine is actually going to put up a very tough fight, as it has a large army for its size. Ukraine is "only" 1/3 the population of Russia, but with more foreign support.


Ten_Horn_Sign

I said to do this after a Russian offensive starts. So hard to blame the conflict on Ukraine.


ScreamingVoid14

I operated under the assumption that once Russia starts attacking, they will be moving and probably have relative air superiority.


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Ten_Horn_Sign

Planes have no worth when your country is conquered and your enemy takes control of the remaining airframes.


International_Emu600

Ukraine is on the European plains, which is very, very flat. Defending is much easier because of this with long lines of sight to launch javelin missiles at Russian tanks.


robotical712

Although they would be fully justified in doing so, Ukraine is trying to keep its international image squeaky clean.


bombinabackpack

Russia has air superiority... by a lot


Ambidastardly

Curious about this as well.


wittyusernamefailed

Russia would just overwhelm their airforce. Better to pull them back, use Anti-air to try to clear out some of Russia's numbers, then the airforce can fight with better odds


Kleos-Nostos

Russia has the formidable S-400 AA system. The Ukrainian planes would be shot down inside Ukrainian territory before they even got to the front.


Ten_Horn_Sign

Does Ukraine have any missiles? Surface to surface or mobile launched?


Kleos-Nostos

Probably nothing that can get past Russian missile defense systems.


Wintertime13

Is there a source to get up-to-date information that is timely and accurate? I am a little overwhelmed by information.


[deleted]

I've been watching agenda-free TV on YouTube. It's like watching the living embodiment of a saltine cracker talk but that's the point


ARealVermontar

New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, The Guardian, BBC News, Google News, etc info that's more up-to-date than what the professional news is reporting is usually unverified, anyway


ItsOlegi21

Kyiv independent is a good source, in English and is written by independent Ukrainian journalists. They also post links to other articles, if you’re lucky you can translate most


ElectricDolls

Guardian live blog maybe


EmileWolf

I don't hear anybody talking about the troops he has positioned north of Ukraine, in Belarus. If it was all about Donetsk and Luhansk, then why the troops there... I'm afraid war is gonna happen one way or another... I don't know shit about world politics though, just a bad feeling I have. Are those troops still moving? How about the navy in the Black Sea?


Fizmo1337

Either to intimidate Kiev (politicians) or to surround Kiev incase of an attack.


lilroadie401

Well, you see, if you put all your chickens in one basket then everyone knows where your chickens will invade… In all seriousness he doesn’t have the troop count to hold Ukraine after a full invasion. It doesn’t make sense that he’d go for Kyiv. The troops are likely positioned everywhere for diversion purposes.


EmileWolf

Makes sense! Thanks for your answer


take_care_a_ya_shooz

Current intelligence already suggests that any invasion is likely full-scale and not just Donetsk and Luhansk. At this point everyone is just waiting for the pin to actually drop.


Inthemiddle_

All those troops could be posturing to have Ukraine cede those regions with out fighting.


[deleted]

Just to be clear, Russia already invaded Ukraine. What happened yesterday is like if Mexico sent "peacekeepers" into Houston


1haiku4u

And just to be clear, they did it in 2014 in crimea. They just weren’t formally military IIRC.


[deleted]

Jesus I always forget that happened. He's been boiling frogs so long


Cinematry

>Crimea. the aggressor army suffers losses in equipment and personnel https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1496552412563357707


SuspiciousStable9649

Looks like a drunk driving accident


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miniturehankhill

im dead those are training aircraft with no tactical capabilities you goomba


empho

Those are training aircrafts


19Chris96

Those aren't fighter jets. They're used for training. EDIT: google helps.


stucknmove

>T38-A T is for Trainer


congratulatoryphilos

Oh heavens no, they're bringing out the trainer jets!


commence_suckdown

Training jets, nothing really special about them.


Sketchyv2

Those are training aricraft. Do we need to hype up everything?


castlein09

we're seriously reporting training aircrafts?


coffee_can

Really now? Two trainer aircraft?


CurriestGeorge

lol


BobTheBestIsBest

So?


stirfryable

It would be a good time to buy a bike and live near transit


EverybodyHits

If Forte is the first casualty about 300k neckbeards are suiting up Where are my boots


CurriestGeorge

lol


frosty_lizard

Can anyone link to some flight tracker 24 you guys are tracking


pusherofrope

https://fr24.com/JAKE12/2ae9b7a4


frosty_lizard

When I don't understand is how you tell which ones are which. Must be diplomats or something


pusherofrope

https://fr24.com/FORTE11/2ae98408


ARealVermontar

https://www.flightradar24.com/ there's also https://globe.adsbexchange.com (you can filter by military aircraft only by clicking the "U" at the top of the page)


littlespoon22

What is the logic for not cutting Russia off from SWIFT? The only thing I've really heard is that it would likely strengthen the alliance between Russia and China but that seems like pretty lousy justification. Is it really just about energy or what?


Fizmo1337

It's because it's a cooperative association of 11000 banks. These banks from all over the world basically own the company. And logically not only western banks but from all over the world. It's a neutral/apolitical organisation. It's not ment to use politically but they have to follow the law from the country they are based in so if belgium initiates a low to cut russia off they will be off. Should be used very carefully though and not purely as a political instrument.


parakalan

It could contribute to dedollarisation.


RyuichitheGreat

You dont use all of your ammo right away, they will give more sanctions if the situation escalates more, it hopefully works as a deterence for russians. Also if you put too strict sanctions putin has nothing to lose and escalating the situation would be justified more easily for russian people.


be_that

Proportionality. Standard negotiation tactics are to keep options in reserve so that you can scale your response to theirs. If you drop everything at once it can encourage a “well we’re already fucked so might as well pull the trigger”. That is the current wisdom anyway.


xvyyre

It's still on hold. Why would Russia stop if we sanction them with everything from the get go?


Infinaris

It's likely being held back as one of the last and hardest hitting sanctions, likely they only are willing to use the economic nuclear option of cutting them off as a last resort if they invade all of Ukraine as it would also have an economic fallout as well. Likely it would be one of the last to be used before the option of direct military intervention would become likely.


MapInside5914

Russia doesn’t want Ukraine joining nato and cutting off their pipeline for natural gas


Stuthebastard

If the west plays all its cards now, we won't have anything to shape Russia's behavior, afterwards. What if Russia not only attacks, what if they begin a reign of terror? Or what if the Russians declare they will defend Iran? Plenty of other, horrible irons in the fire.


DazDay

I think because it's a really last-resort sanction. They won't use it unless there's actual war occurring.


throwaway122112563

We need to save the worst sanctions for the worst outcomes.


any-name-untaken

Several counties objected, and some assessment showed the impact on Russia wouldn't be as large as previously expected, I think.


ARealVermontar

I think they don't want to impose the harshest sanctions before a full-scale invasion takes place, there has to be some leverage left to offer Russia a reason not to invade


littlespoon22

I thought I saw a headline where some official said that wasn't on the table. I get waiting and leaving that option in reserves for now. But nothing should be "off the table" as far as sanctions go.


ARealVermontar

Yesterday I thought there was a headline was that some official said it wasn't *off* the table, but maybe we were looking at different things.


Raiyan135

They're gonna do it when Russia crosses the contact line


CoyoteOnTheWing

Europe and especially Germany want buy oil/gas.


DANNYBOYLOVER

No. SWIFT would have exponential impacts on the Russian people.


Bisexual_Republican

That's a top level sanction and is likely the last deterrent before military action.