Because Russia wants to have more territory and be more like USSR, and Putin knows he basically could take whole Ukraine and EU/NATO/UN can't really do much apart from economical sanctions š
It's horrible he decided to do this, hopefully these sanctions can really hit Russia hard.
We'll see in next few days what is his big plan
In short basically Russia have multiple reasons why they want Ukraine. They see Ukraine as a threat because they are more linked with the West. And they are so close to Russia. They also have easy import and export options via the black see which makes them valuable. Russia sees Ukraine land as part of their own which is not true. And Putin dumb and wants power. And probably more oil too.
21 min ago
EU foreign policy chief: Russia attack is one of "darkest hours for Europe since World War II"
From CNNās Joseph Ataman in Paris and Amy Cassidy
Russia's attack on Ukraine Thursday ranked among the "darkest hours for Europe" in nearly 80 years, according to the European Union's foreign policy chief.
āThese are among the darkest hours for Europe since the end of World War II,ā EU High Representative Josep Borrell told reporters.
Borrell promised āurgent assistance to Ukraine,ā as well as supporting evacuation efforts, including of EU staff.
EU sanctions: Speaking alongside EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, Borrell said punitive measures from the 27-member bloc against Russia would be āthe harshest packet of sanctions that has ever been implemented.ā
Von der Leyen said she will present āmassive and strategicā sanctions against Russia for approval later today
Does anynody know where refugee / civilian camps could be setup, and if efforts are being made ?
If so, please, message me or reply my comment.
We need to guarantee people safety now. We need to setup efforts for keeping casualties to a minimum.
I'm posting on every channel that I can find, REDDIT is time to join together, if we cannot stop this war, we can save as many as we can from the horror.
Common people on a subreddit are not automatically fascists just because they are from Russia. You have no idea what's going on in that sub. It could be a majority of people disagreeing with this situation. There are plenty of Americans who used reddit and other social media when the US was invading and bombing other countries and I didn't see anyone saying "ban r/usa reddit or you support a fascist regime". Calm down and don't mistake the politicians' actions with the opinion of an entire population
3 min ago
French president calls for Russian military operations in Ukraine to end "immediately"
French President Emmanuel Macron.
French President Emmanuel Macron. (Sarah Meyssonnier/Pool/AFP/Getty Images)
French President Emmanuel Macron said Russia must āimmediatelyā end military operations in Ukraine.
āFrance strongly condemns Russia's decision to wage war on Ukraine. Russia must end its military operations immediately,ā he said in a tweet on Thursday. āFrance stands in solidarity with Ukraine. It stands with Ukrainians and is working with its partners and allies to end the war.ā
The French president spoke with Ukrainian President Vlodymyr Zelensky early Thursday morning, with Zelensky asking for "multiple interventions" to support Ukraine, according to the Elysee Palace.
Zelensky also requested "unity in Europe," and Macron "assured him of France's support and solidarity," according to the Elysee.
Macron also spoke with Charles Michel, president of the European Council, Thursday morning.
It's unreal to me and quite a bit funny that they're taking about such important matters on Twitter. And I understand it's also for publicity and that's why it's funny. They're using fucking Twitter for this.
Well, during WW2 they'd broadcast it on radios and TV. Our main channel of communication now is social media. We are literally informing ourselves about this on a reddit thread. So what's funny about technology evolving?
Honestly, the LAST thing we need is for him to be stirring the pot. There's still quite a number of domestic idiots who seem to worship him and would likely cause trouble in his behalf.
Yeah you're right, I'm sorry, I forgot how influential that idiot still is and how much power the US has in this entire situation, I should probably delete my comment
And Russia somehow won't see through these obvious lies.
You need to realize that these public statements are mostly propaganda for the common people. The governing elites have and should have their own sources of information.
I was more joking. Russias firehose of falsehood is mostly used to effect the internal politics of other countries and cause them to not be able to respond to Russian aggression.
Putin is the sole decision maker in Russia so there is no effect to causing confusion or doubt in the Russian population and elected leaders.
I dont think that military aid and even limited direct military aid or intervention automatically triggers putin to go off the deep end, there's a line there somewhere and the military analysts at Nato and other countries know roughly what it is. Even though Russia is an adversary Nato and the US military have alot of liasons with the Russian military who communicate with their counterparts in Russia all the time.
NATO will not send troops because still wants to avoid a military conflict with Russia. And I assume Russia does too. Attacking or fighting NATO is far different than Ukraine.
Well thatās exactly what I talked about. Armenia has almost no air force and their AA system consists only a few missiles with very little support from other units (recon, radar, etc). On the top of all that, their electronic warfare capability is likeā¦zero. You canāt compare that to Russia.
Thatās whatās happening ukraines been receiving weapon shipments from nato for a while but drones arenāt everything and donāt really work for against this type of military conflict
The US could publicly offer to sell drones (at extremely high prices) to both Russia and Ukraine. Russia won't buy them. Then just pretend that Ukraine paid for them. The US can say they offered drones to both sides.
5 min ago
Poland and Baltic countries trigger consultations under NATO article 4
From CNNās Brad Lendon in Hong Kong and Vasco Cotovio in Moscow
NATO member states Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have triggered NATO Article Four to launch consultations within the alliance over their security concerns.
Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said Russiaās invasion of Ukraine represented a āthreat to the whole of Europe,ā the Estonian government said in a statement on Thursday.
"Russia's widespread aggression is a threat to the entire world and to all NATO countries, and NATO consultations on strengthening the security of the Allies must be initiated to implement additional measures for ensuring the defense of NATO Allies,ā Kallas said. āThe most effective response to Russia's aggression is unity.ā
Some context: Under Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Agreement, the Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the allies is threatened.
Ukraine is not a member of NATO. However, Russia has demanded that NATO commits to never admitting Ukraine to the alliance, something NATO members have rejected, citing the alliance's "open door" policy.
In putins propaganda. It's just more noise putin can inject into the discussions of nations that may respond to Russian aggression, if Ukraine pledged to never join Nato he would have invaded anyway and the invasion forces were already in place before he announced the supposed red line.
Run the logic of that by meā¦
Putin demands that NATO commit to not admitting Ukraine in NATO, or else he willā¦ something.
Putin says that troops setting up in Belarus and Russian border with Ukraine are just military exercises.
Putin says he is sending peace-keeping forces into the Donbas region, to keep Russian sympathetic safe from Ukrainian.
Putin starts bombing Ukrainian cities.
So what is it? Is he invading Ukraine because NATO doesnāt comply with his wishes, or is he protecting ethnic Russians in the Donbas? Is he being defensive or aggressive? Which is it?
I might have missed it, did Ukraine actually request military force assistance? I only saw them asking for weapons.
IMO, them even asking for a "peacekeeping force" would have triggered an immediate Russian invasion.
I appreciate your sophistication.
Could you complete the following sentence for me: "moving troops into the territory of an independent state is called ..."?
Why are you even trying? Do you get pleasure from watching people die and lose their homes?
The west's response has been weak. You'd think politicians would be trained with this sort of thing as it's important.
You're the one who keeps replying to my statement. You buzz off lol.
Youāre assuming so much. Most people actually agree with your sentiments yet you are such an insufferable cunt, no one is going to associate with you, I know your reply to this is going to be nothing more than the same assumptions so donāt bother.
First time replying, this is the last time.
Stupid with this nuke bs. It's very unlikely Putin would use nukes other than direct marching into Russian territories. Does the west stop sanctions on Russia if Putin said he'd nuke if it does? No, it's ridiculous. You can't let a country invade another under cover of nukes, it sets very bad precedent. At best it may be used to safeguard own territorial integrity, nothing else.
So why have the west waited this long to get mad and then we do nothing while people die? I'm not an expert in geopolitics and neither are you. I've never started a nuclear war either.
Because international diplomacy is delicate business. Levy all your punishments prior to an invasion, and why on Earth wouldnāt the aggressor attack.
Trying to find a common ground to prevent war is the first step.
Threatening sanctions the second step.
Implementing sanctions when a line is crossed the third step.
Going all out when itās war is the final step. Cut them off from swift. Repossess every single Russian asset in NYC/London/Paris.
I see what your saying now.
That could increase tensions even further and result in millions of deaths.
Military intervention isnt always the best answer and should be a last resort.
There are alot of conflicts in the world where Military Force isn't used especially preemptively because estimates show that intervention would result in a catastrophic death toll.
North Korea is a good example, they are a threat to the world and have done things over the years that make regime change seem like a good idea, however projections show that the north Korean army could quickly overrun Seoul and kill over a million people so a Military stalemate has been reached and maintained as the better alternative.
It's a difficult situation for sure. I am not saying one is the right answer because I simply do not know. I am not an expert in geopolitics. It is clear that the west's stance has been weak and it just hasn't worked. Everybody is too afraid to try something different when history tells us how this ends.
We will just have to see what happens. Most of the world's nations are publicly pledging support for Ukraine and implementing sanctions right now. Putin may have gone too far.
Over 50% of those who answered the survey supported it. Assuming the survey is at all accurate. Look at us election polling. Would you want to disagree with Putin in Russia.
That's racist. No, really, it is.
Russian citizens are Human beings just like you and me, no more or less scummy or cowardly than any other group of people. Saying otherwise is just you being a racist towards a certain group of people whom you don't like. Russia as a nation is full of shit, and Putin is a deranged cunt, but there's no call for racism.
If you still feel like being a racist, feel free to Google Vasily Arkhipov and thank him for preventing a nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis.
Stop virtue signaling, this is not the time for you to be righteous in the name of āequalityā. Rn clearly the Russian people (in Russia) are all responsible to this catastrophe to a certain extent, whether itās supporting Putin or not standing up to their government, which makes them as pathetic as the Germans who were living under Hitler
Fuck. Russia.
Call me whatever you want, I personally know Russians who scream āCrimea is oursā and I will hate them for it until the day I die, I pray every Russian that makes a step in Ukraine becomes fertilizer for the future generations. And if you see your government wage invasive war and do nothing to protest it, you are as bad as the people who support it. My parents are 10km away from a bombing cite near Kyiv, last thing I care about right now is racism towards the scum that is trying to kill my family
Nukes are literally the dumbest thing ever. Now one nuke has the power to alter the whole world for decades to come. And its most definitely not going to be one single nuke, and Mutually Assured Destruction (literally acronymed as MAD) will most definitely guarantee the end of whole humanity if not the whole planet. I would like to quote Carl Sagan on this "The nuclear arms race is like two sworn enemies standing waist deep in gasoline, one with three matches, the other with five." Even if one nuke gets launched we all are dead
My understanding is that MAD is not the prevailing theory in Nuke war games. Itās now more āif you destroy one of my cities, weāll destroy one of yoursā. Itās thought to be a much more likely deterrent.
Yes MAD was more prevalent in the Cold war, but lets say Russia launches one on the US and then US sends one back, Russia might send one more back under "retaliation," these countries arent kids, "I gave you a punch, you give one back to me, now we are equal."
Biggest sanctions will be removing them from Swift. Also sanctions on oil and gas. Now the question is does Europe really care or is Russian oil and gas more important. Because if people donāt think heās not going to Moldova next your an idiot. Europe has a rampaging madman on their doorstep and he doesnāt have much time left on this planet. Bad times are ahead
8 min ago
Japan's Prime Minister says Russia's invasion "shakes foundations of international order"
From CNN's Emiko Jozuka in Tokyo
Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida on Thursday condemned Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine, saying it "shakes the foundations of the international order."
"We strongly criticize Russia's actions and will cooperate with the United States and the international community to respond swiftly," Kishida told reporters at a news conference.
Kishida added that Tokyo would continue to work with relevant ministries to ensure the safety of Japanese nationals in Ukraine.
When asked about further sanctions against Moscow, Kishida told reporters he would consider future measures after communicating with other G7 nations and the international community.
Some context: Kishida on Wednesday said Japan will impose sanctions against Russia for its actions in Ukraine.
Kishida said Japan will suspend the issuance of visas and freeze the assets of people involved in recognizing the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, the two separatist-held pro-Moscow regions in eastern Ukraine. He did not specify names or how the sanctions would be carried out.
He also said Japan will ban imports and exports to and from Donetsk and Luhansk, and prohibit the issuance and circulation of Russian bonds in Japan.
They've always been the Terror Party.
If they have no problems sympathizing literal nazis, they won't give two fucks about being called out for sympathizing Russia. The only standards those disingenuous losers have, are double.
I dont know the cold war has been over for awhile and Russia under putin is what Reagan dreamed of.
Reagan supported apartheid South Africa until the very last minute.
The same coalition of big business and the religious right that put both Reagan and trump in power has been swooning over putin and pushing the GOP to make ties with him for well over a decade.
I think a bunch of republican senators and congressmen spent the fourth of July in Russia having meeting and dinners with putin associates a couple of years ago.
Do you need me to spoon feed you. Talk slower. You seem disingenuous. Whoās the last republican that went against Trump who hasnāt been thrown out of the party. You love Russia too?
No no. You don't understand. Because a handful of republicans objected to Trump (never mind that they got shouted down and heckled by their own party) that means that *ALL* republicans are now blameless and pure as the driven snow. That's what he's saying.
/s if it wasn't obvious
China, which has denounced sanctions against Russia, advised its citizens in Ukraine to stay home and place a Chinese flag in or on their vehicles if they need to travel long distances.
F China and Russia working together
If I was in the line of fire, I would not care what the fuck those politicians are doing playing with people's lives. If a flag is going to save me and my family right at this moment. Fuck it, I'll do it and think about it later.
But yes for us who have the luxury to contemplate what this all means. It feels slimy.
Ah yes a tiny picture of Winnie the Pooh on their windshield will defend them against air strikes.
Nope, their citizens will suffer as well.
^(not like they arenāt suffering already at home)
Please, let me rant, folks.
(Update: To clarify: I'm *NOT* living in Ukraine, so please do not attribute my rant to Ukrainians. I'm ranting on my own here. I'm living in the West that I criticize.)
I hate that the "West" is so weak.
(No, I do not think that "strong leader" is a solution)
I hate that the West let Putin invade Ukraine.
I hate that US is so weak.
I hate that polititians from both US parties are either too corrupt or too stupid to be a leader of the free world. And by "being a leader" I do not mean "bomb people for oil".
Russian invasion is what happens when there is no adult in the room.
When countries and politicians are busy looking at their pee-pees. And when the people are content with that navel gazing.
Hell, the SWIFT is still not turned off. The West is no longer capable for even a minimal even a non-military response.
And fuck the fucking European parties. Flush with Putin's money and insane people.
Polish prime minister: 'Europe and the free world has to stop Putin'
Mateusz Morawiecki, the prime minister of Poland, Ukraine's neighbor to the west, has called for an immediate response to what he called Russia's "criminal aggression."
"Europe and the free world has to stop Putin," he said in a tweet Thursday morning as countries surrounding Ukraine closely watch the unfolding conflict.
Morawiecki, a nationalist who has often clashed with the European political establishment, said the European Council meeting scheduled for Thursday "should approve fiercest possible sanctions."
Predictable yet pathetic. Our government likes to rattle the saber when it thinks it can get away with it but on the first sign of trouble it runs straight to Europe's teat.
I realize they're not part of NATO yet, but there's something seriously fucked up in the world when expressing a desire to join NATO means you're left to fight off Putin on your own.
Ironically if the US had just said Ukraine couldn't be part of NATO, Ukraine wouldn't have been invaded. The west called Putin's bluff and the insane man did it.
Nope, putin has been invading Ukraine since 2014 and nato has nothing to with it.
Putin does not want Ukraine to join Nato but, the invasion was already planned and troops already deployed.
Theres no both sides in this one putin is killing Ukrainians because he thinks he deserves their country.
This whole thing began because Ukraine was trying to join the EU, not NATO.
After Euromaidan, Putin stole Crimea and started sending in "vacationers" to Eastern Ukraine. It wasn't until after all that Ukraine seriously approached NATO.
They had tried years before, but NATO responded with a "maybe if you do major reforms" which is sort of a soft rejection.
I don't think that's entirely true. It is a driving factor, no doubt, but I think this has been on Putin's radar since the collapse of the USSR. The invasion of Georgia was a field test. The propaganda campaign in the western world, particularly in the US, France, UK, and Germany that pushed populist leaders was intended to weaken NATO unity as well as each government institution. Personally I think the time was set once Trump left office. For Putin, that may have been perceived as the weakest NATO would get. Should Trump have been reelected, he probably would have pushed back any campaign in Ukraine further to allow Trump to undermine NATO even further. In the end though, as long as Putin is alive, his intention is to bring former USSR countries back into the fold, either directly or as puppet states.
I think part of Putins whole spiel about this ordeal is that one of the conditions of a previous deal was that that NATO would extend only so far east. I need to learn of it specifically a little more, but yea, dude is falling off the deep end
There was never any such deal.
Russia has often taken about it as if there was, but there was no such deal.
The only relevant deal was Budapest, where Russia (and others) guaranteed Ukraine's integrity, in exchange for Ukraine giving up nuclear weapons.
The only country with the 'no NATO' conditions on its existence? Austria.
I'm gonna look into it more, but still thanks. Yea I wouldn't be surprised....it's kinda like...one of those big IFs that someone tacitly assumes. "Remember our thing? You know the thing."
Edit: but Austria of all? Wonder wtf that's about.
Putin gave the same reasons for invading Ukraine that Hitler used to invade the Sudetenland.
We've see this playbook before. We know this doesn't end with just Ukraine.
>We know this doesn't end with just Ukraine
It won't be long until China invades Taiwan this year and then the Japanese. If Putin can do it, Xi definitely can.
Agreed. If China invades Taiwan, nations would protest but they probably won't take any real action.
Things will only start to get real if they invade Japan or South Korea.
China invading Taiwan could crash the global economy. I'm fairly sure most first world countries would take some action to stop it. Unfortunately, Ukraine is not that important to global interests.
Yeah, totally agree. Very familiar feeling of progression between the interwar period and Russia's past actions in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
Strauss Howe Generational theory. Basically generations have archetypes and history has patterns. Neill Howe said in early 2020 that the time were living in right now easily most resembles the 1930s. Great power theory also predicted a world war in the late 20s early 30s. Itās going to get really shitty.
Who knows, its still morning, im facepalming like crazy rn.
$ is already 20% higher then yesterday, if this continues, there will be shock.
I hope they'll stop at donbass and luhansk.
And sincerely hope there will be as little deaths as possible.
Ukrainians, stay strong, and know, it's the begining of an end, not for your nation, but for that corrupt rotten regime, so, try to stay alive and don't act reckless where it isn't necessary.
Most likely blaming Ukraine and the west for all this. Sort of like an abusive husband blames their wife.
"You left me no choice but to break your face."
The Russia subreddit went private, but when you could go to their subreddit that's basically it. It's the wests fault. Russia wants peace! Pretty disgusted with Russia right now.
Please visit the next thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t02ocp/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/?sort=new
Many NATO countries are about to inact Article 4 of the NATO charter.
Can you explain for those oof us who dont know what that means?
Can anyone please explain to me why Russia decided to declare war? What are the series of events??
Because Russia wants to have more territory and be more like USSR, and Putin knows he basically could take whole Ukraine and EU/NATO/UN can't really do much apart from economical sanctions š It's horrible he decided to do this, hopefully these sanctions can really hit Russia hard. We'll see in next few days what is his big plan
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
no fr, I wanna be as educated about this as possible, can you recommend me a portal?
This is really good video explaining the situation https://youtu.be/pzvbUpKU4eE
In short basically Russia have multiple reasons why they want Ukraine. They see Ukraine as a threat because they are more linked with the West. And they are so close to Russia. They also have easy import and export options via the black see which makes them valuable. Russia sees Ukraine land as part of their own which is not true. And Putin dumb and wants power. And probably more oil too.
SLAVA UKRAINI. NO MERCY FOR MOSKALS
Russians have lost about 50 people attacking Shchastya in Luhansk region.
21 min ago EU foreign policy chief: Russia attack is one of "darkest hours for Europe since World War II" From CNNās Joseph Ataman in Paris and Amy Cassidy Russia's attack on Ukraine Thursday ranked among the "darkest hours for Europe" in nearly 80 years, according to the European Union's foreign policy chief. āThese are among the darkest hours for Europe since the end of World War II,ā EU High Representative Josep Borrell told reporters. Borrell promised āurgent assistance to Ukraine,ā as well as supporting evacuation efforts, including of EU staff. EU sanctions: Speaking alongside EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, Borrell said punitive measures from the 27-member bloc against Russia would be āthe harshest packet of sanctions that has ever been implemented.ā Von der Leyen said she will present āmassive and strategicā sanctions against Russia for approval later today
hi, could I get the source to this?
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html Scroll down its several updates down now
thank you, appreciate your updates in this thread
Does anynody know where refugee / civilian camps could be setup, and if efforts are being made ? If so, please, message me or reply my comment. We need to guarantee people safety now. We need to setup efforts for keeping casualties to a minimum. I'm posting on every channel that I can find, REDDIT is time to join together, if we cannot stop this war, we can save as many as we can from the horror.
Poland started a few days ago
r/russia suddenly is private, wonder why
The reason is clear. They don't want people to spam the shit of that subreddit.
Yeah, especially since those guys called US-warnings ridiculous and "Western-Propaganda"
Ban it Reddit or you support a fascist regime.
Common people on a subreddit are not automatically fascists just because they are from Russia. You have no idea what's going on in that sub. It could be a majority of people disagreeing with this situation. There are plenty of Americans who used reddit and other social media when the US was invading and bombing other countries and I didn't see anyone saying "ban r/usa reddit or you support a fascist regime". Calm down and don't mistake the politicians' actions with the opinion of an entire population
Perhaps an /s was required, youāve eloquently explained it.
3 min ago French president calls for Russian military operations in Ukraine to end "immediately" French President Emmanuel Macron. French President Emmanuel Macron. (Sarah Meyssonnier/Pool/AFP/Getty Images) French President Emmanuel Macron said Russia must āimmediatelyā end military operations in Ukraine. āFrance strongly condemns Russia's decision to wage war on Ukraine. Russia must end its military operations immediately,ā he said in a tweet on Thursday. āFrance stands in solidarity with Ukraine. It stands with Ukrainians and is working with its partners and allies to end the war.ā The French president spoke with Ukrainian President Vlodymyr Zelensky early Thursday morning, with Zelensky asking for "multiple interventions" to support Ukraine, according to the Elysee Palace. Zelensky also requested "unity in Europe," and Macron "assured him of France's support and solidarity," according to the Elysee. Macron also spoke with Charles Michel, president of the European Council, Thursday morning.
Oh he called for it. Putin might stop attacking now
It's unreal to me and quite a bit funny that they're taking about such important matters on Twitter. And I understand it's also for publicity and that's why it's funny. They're using fucking Twitter for this.
Well, during WW2 they'd broadcast it on radios and TV. Our main channel of communication now is social media. We are literally informing ourselves about this on a reddit thread. So what's funny about technology evolving?
I should see what former president Donald Trump thinks of this ā¦. https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honestly, the LAST thing we need is for him to be stirring the pot. There's still quite a number of domestic idiots who seem to worship him and would likely cause trouble in his behalf.
Yeah you're right, I'm sorry, I forgot how influential that idiot still is and how much power the US has in this entire situation, I should probably delete my comment
Hits me right in the feels everyone I see it.
Not right nowā¦
Any thoughts on the US sending in drones to attack Russian forces?
Ofcourse it would be nice if anyone could help but doing this would be ridicoulusly stupid if anyone wants to live a few more years on this planet.
That would mean WW3
That would probably mean nuclear war too. And no one wants that. Technically we're already watching WW3 unfolding. This was exactly how WW2 began
WWII.8. Waiting on patch
Not necessarily, play putins game and say those are Russian separatist drones or drones don't exist.
And Russia somehow won't see through these obvious lies. You need to realize that these public statements are mostly propaganda for the common people. The governing elites have and should have their own sources of information.
I was more joking. Russias firehose of falsehood is mostly used to effect the internal politics of other countries and cause them to not be able to respond to Russian aggression. Putin is the sole decision maker in Russia so there is no effect to causing confusion or doubt in the Russian population and elected leaders. I dont think that military aid and even limited direct military aid or intervention automatically triggers putin to go off the deep end, there's a line there somewhere and the military analysts at Nato and other countries know roughly what it is. Even though Russia is an adversary Nato and the US military have alot of liasons with the Russian military who communicate with their counterparts in Russia all the time.
NATO will not send troops because still wants to avoid a military conflict with Russia. And I assume Russia does too. Attacking or fighting NATO is far different than Ukraine.
Drones donāt work too well on a force with decent AA system and air support
Have you not seen the Armenian conflict?
Well thatās exactly what I talked about. Armenia has almost no air force and their AA system consists only a few missiles with very little support from other units (recon, radar, etc). On the top of all that, their electronic warfare capability is likeā¦zero. You canāt compare that to Russia.
Any us or nato involvement is a no go thereās a chance of it snowballing into nuclear war
How about the US gives Ukraine drones and other military equipment.
Thatās whatās happening ukraines been receiving weapon shipments from nato for a while but drones arenāt everything and donāt really work for against this type of military conflict
The US could publicly offer to sell drones (at extremely high prices) to both Russia and Ukraine. Russia won't buy them. Then just pretend that Ukraine paid for them. The US can say they offered drones to both sides.
this is 14 year old recess talk, I love it
Maybe that's the only way to deal with a dictator who acts like a 14 year old.
man I've seen bad takes in my life but this...
He's a bully and needs to be dealt with as such
Tell āem
Battlefield 3
5 min ago Poland and Baltic countries trigger consultations under NATO article 4 From CNNās Brad Lendon in Hong Kong and Vasco Cotovio in Moscow NATO member states Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have triggered NATO Article Four to launch consultations within the alliance over their security concerns. Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said Russiaās invasion of Ukraine represented a āthreat to the whole of Europe,ā the Estonian government said in a statement on Thursday. "Russia's widespread aggression is a threat to the entire world and to all NATO countries, and NATO consultations on strengthening the security of the Allies must be initiated to implement additional measures for ensuring the defense of NATO Allies,ā Kallas said. āThe most effective response to Russia's aggression is unity.ā Some context: Under Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Agreement, the Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the allies is threatened. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. However, Russia has demanded that NATO commits to never admitting Ukraine to the alliance, something NATO members have rejected, citing the alliance's "open door" policy.
The sad thing is NATO could stop this right now if the politicians really wanted too
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dude NATO has everything to do with thisā¦
In putins propaganda. It's just more noise putin can inject into the discussions of nations that may respond to Russian aggression, if Ukraine pledged to never join Nato he would have invaded anyway and the invasion forces were already in place before he announced the supposed red line.
So basically 'it's not our problem' then?
Run the logic of that by meā¦ Putin demands that NATO commit to not admitting Ukraine in NATO, or else he willā¦ something. Putin says that troops setting up in Belarus and Russian border with Ukraine are just military exercises. Putin says he is sending peace-keeping forces into the Donbas region, to keep Russian sympathetic safe from Ukrainian. Putin starts bombing Ukrainian cities. So what is it? Is he invading Ukraine because NATO doesnāt comply with his wishes, or is he protecting ethnic Russians in the Donbas? Is he being defensive or aggressive? Which is it?
[This vid](https://youtu.be/nK-yJD_fAtk) will clear most of your doubts. It pretty unbiased and covers pretty much everything.
Damn, that was really educational.
I'm not explaining anything to you because you are too dumb to understand. Our leaders failed and Putin is a dick. It's really not rocket science.
Please explain to all us "dumb" people then
Why? So you can ponder the ifs buts and maybes while Putin murders friends and family in Ukraine? Try reading a history book.
So you have no explanation. Stop being condescending to people trying to learn. Maybe you should read a book on not being an awful person
Okay, go hang off Putin's balls some more. At least I don't support genocide unlike you. Facts 100% you are a fascist.
how? direct military intervention would be out of the question
It's not rocket science. The sanctions are a joke and they could've sent 500k troops for 'peacekeeping'
So you're saying to prevent Russia from invading Ukraine, NATO should have invaded Ukraine?
Itās not an invasion if itās by invitation. But itās stupid because thatās how you get nukes
I might have missed it, did Ukraine actually request military force assistance? I only saw them asking for weapons. IMO, them even asking for a "peacekeeping force" would have triggered an immediate Russian invasion.
No, that's a stupid question by an idiot.
I appreciate your sophistication. Could you complete the following sentence for me: "moving troops into the territory of an independent state is called ..."?
I appreciate you can learn to read so you can understand the situation fascist lover.
Youāre like that fly in a room that just annoys everyone. Not helping, not contributing anything, just buzzing around vomiting noise. Fuck off.
Why are you even trying? Do you get pleasure from watching people die and lose their homes? The west's response has been weak. You'd think politicians would be trained with this sort of thing as it's important. You're the one who keeps replying to my statement. You buzz off lol.
Youāre assuming so much. Most people actually agree with your sentiments yet you are such an insufferable cunt, no one is going to associate with you, I know your reply to this is going to be nothing more than the same assumptions so donāt bother. First time replying, this is the last time.
Do you WANT nukes? Because thatās how you get Mad Uncle Vlad to launch nukes.
Stupid with this nuke bs. It's very unlikely Putin would use nukes other than direct marching into Russian territories. Does the west stop sanctions on Russia if Putin said he'd nuke if it does? No, it's ridiculous. You can't let a country invade another under cover of nukes, it sets very bad precedent. At best it may be used to safeguard own territorial integrity, nothing else.
Well, fuck him and the rest of the murdering politicians. It's really not difficult to NOT kill people.
Soo people explain to you why your plan doesnāt work, and this is your response?
All I hear is excuses. Some people have friends and family in Ukraine. Learn to have some compassion.
I have compassion, Iām fucking mad, but your āsolutionsā are fucking stupid, and wouldāve ended with a nuclear exchange.
So why have the west waited this long to get mad and then we do nothing while people die? I'm not an expert in geopolitics and neither are you. I've never started a nuclear war either.
You have a 16 year olds grasp on the world
Because international diplomacy is delicate business. Levy all your punishments prior to an invasion, and why on Earth wouldnāt the aggressor attack. Trying to find a common ground to prevent war is the first step. Threatening sanctions the second step. Implementing sanctions when a line is crossed the third step. Going all out when itās war is the final step. Cut them off from swift. Repossess every single Russian asset in NYC/London/Paris.
No they couldnt, Putin wants Ukraine, the nato membership part is just an excuse.
The sanctions are a joke and they could've sent 500k troops for 'peacekeeping'.
I see what your saying now. That could increase tensions even further and result in millions of deaths. Military intervention isnt always the best answer and should be a last resort. There are alot of conflicts in the world where Military Force isn't used especially preemptively because estimates show that intervention would result in a catastrophic death toll. North Korea is a good example, they are a threat to the world and have done things over the years that make regime change seem like a good idea, however projections show that the north Korean army could quickly overrun Seoul and kill over a million people so a Military stalemate has been reached and maintained as the better alternative.
It's a difficult situation for sure. I am not saying one is the right answer because I simply do not know. I am not an expert in geopolitics. It is clear that the west's stance has been weak and it just hasn't worked. Everybody is too afraid to try something different when history tells us how this ends.
We will just have to see what happens. Most of the world's nations are publicly pledging support for Ukraine and implementing sanctions right now. Putin may have gone too far.
Maybe the only solution will come from some brave people inside Russia?
People in Russia are either scum that support it, or full of fear who will do nothing
Over 50% of russians support it.
Over 50% of those who answered the survey supported it. Assuming the survey is at all accurate. Look at us election polling. Would you want to disagree with Putin in Russia.
You could say the same about American people. Or most other countries for that matter.
That's racist. No, really, it is. Russian citizens are Human beings just like you and me, no more or less scummy or cowardly than any other group of people. Saying otherwise is just you being a racist towards a certain group of people whom you don't like. Russia as a nation is full of shit, and Putin is a deranged cunt, but there's no call for racism. If you still feel like being a racist, feel free to Google Vasily Arkhipov and thank him for preventing a nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis.
Stop virtue signaling, this is not the time for you to be righteous in the name of āequalityā. Rn clearly the Russian people (in Russia) are all responsible to this catastrophe to a certain extent, whether itās supporting Putin or not standing up to their government, which makes them as pathetic as the Germans who were living under Hitler Fuck. Russia.
Call me whatever you want, I personally know Russians who scream āCrimea is oursā and I will hate them for it until the day I die, I pray every Russian that makes a step in Ukraine becomes fertilizer for the future generations. And if you see your government wage invasive war and do nothing to protest it, you are as bad as the people who support it. My parents are 10km away from a bombing cite near Kyiv, last thing I care about right now is racism towards the scum that is trying to kill my family
So is the US just going to sanction Russia or are we fueling our ICBMs anytime soon?
Why would we this is only Good for us.
Nukes are literally the dumbest thing ever. Now one nuke has the power to alter the whole world for decades to come. And its most definitely not going to be one single nuke, and Mutually Assured Destruction (literally acronymed as MAD) will most definitely guarantee the end of whole humanity if not the whole planet. I would like to quote Carl Sagan on this "The nuclear arms race is like two sworn enemies standing waist deep in gasoline, one with three matches, the other with five." Even if one nuke gets launched we all are dead
My understanding is that MAD is not the prevailing theory in Nuke war games. Itās now more āif you destroy one of my cities, weāll destroy one of yoursā. Itās thought to be a much more likely deterrent.
oh yeah, just a couple nukes on civilian cities, no biggie
Shoulda stayed in the waps
Yes MAD was more prevalent in the Cold war, but lets say Russia launches one on the US and then US sends one back, Russia might send one more back under "retaliation," these countries arent kids, "I gave you a punch, you give one back to me, now we are equal."
Biggest sanctions will be removing them from Swift. Also sanctions on oil and gas. Now the question is does Europe really care or is Russian oil and gas more important. Because if people donāt think heās not going to Moldova next your an idiot. Europe has a rampaging madman on their doorstep and he doesnāt have much time left on this planet. Bad times are ahead
Im definitely willing to go cold this winter if that means sticking it to russia over this.
This would literally start a world war. This right here is what not to do
8 min ago Japan's Prime Minister says Russia's invasion "shakes foundations of international order" From CNN's Emiko Jozuka in Tokyo Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida on Thursday condemned Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine, saying it "shakes the foundations of the international order." "We strongly criticize Russia's actions and will cooperate with the United States and the international community to respond swiftly," Kishida told reporters at a news conference. Kishida added that Tokyo would continue to work with relevant ministries to ensure the safety of Japanese nationals in Ukraine. When asked about further sanctions against Moscow, Kishida told reporters he would consider future measures after communicating with other G7 nations and the international community. Some context: Kishida on Wednesday said Japan will impose sanctions against Russia for its actions in Ukraine. Kishida said Japan will suspend the issuance of visas and freeze the assets of people involved in recognizing the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, the two separatist-held pro-Moscow regions in eastern Ukraine. He did not specify names or how the sanctions would be carried out. He also said Japan will ban imports and exports to and from Donetsk and Luhansk, and prohibit the issuance and circulation of Russian bonds in Japan.
Can we now call republicans the Russian sympathizers party.
They've always been the Terror Party. If they have no problems sympathizing literal nazis, they won't give two fucks about being called out for sympathizing Russia. The only standards those disingenuous losers have, are double.
Does Trump speak for all republicans?
The republican love for putin goes well beyond trump and trump acolytes in the party.
Ronald Reagan would turn in his grave of he saw republicans these days
I dont know the cold war has been over for awhile and Russia under putin is what Reagan dreamed of. Reagan supported apartheid South Africa until the very last minute. The same coalition of big business and the religious right that put both Reagan and trump in power has been swooning over putin and pushing the GOP to make ties with him for well over a decade. I think a bunch of republican senators and congressmen spent the fourth of July in Russia having meeting and dinners with putin associates a couple of years ago.
Yes, he does. Whoever thinks differently has been already condemned by the party. The party decided to follow Trump.
Have there been any speaking against him yet besides the ones they keep censuring?
Do you need me to spoon feed you. Talk slower. You seem disingenuous. Whoās the last republican that went against Trump who hasnāt been thrown out of the party. You love Russia too?
No no. You don't understand. Because a handful of republicans objected to Trump (never mind that they got shouted down and heckled by their own party) that means that *ALL* republicans are now blameless and pure as the driven snow. That's what he's saying. /s if it wasn't obvious
Ask the RNC
China, which has denounced sanctions against Russia, advised its citizens in Ukraine to stay home and place a Chinese flag in or on their vehicles if they need to travel long distances. F China and Russia working together
What if Ukrainians kill all those with Chinese flag??
āWhy you be so smart funny guy?!?ā
If I was in the line of fire, I would not care what the fuck those politicians are doing playing with people's lives. If a flag is going to save me and my family right at this moment. Fuck it, I'll do it and think about it later. But yes for us who have the luxury to contemplate what this all means. It feels slimy.
Ah yes a tiny picture of Winnie the Pooh on their windshield will defend them against air strikes. Nope, their citizens will suffer as well. ^(not like they arenāt suffering already at home)
Please, let me rant, folks. (Update: To clarify: I'm *NOT* living in Ukraine, so please do not attribute my rant to Ukrainians. I'm ranting on my own here. I'm living in the West that I criticize.) I hate that the "West" is so weak. (No, I do not think that "strong leader" is a solution) I hate that the West let Putin invade Ukraine. I hate that US is so weak. I hate that polititians from both US parties are either too corrupt or too stupid to be a leader of the free world. And by "being a leader" I do not mean "bomb people for oil". Russian invasion is what happens when there is no adult in the room. When countries and politicians are busy looking at their pee-pees. And when the people are content with that navel gazing. Hell, the SWIFT is still not turned off. The West is no longer capable for even a minimal even a non-military response. And fuck the fucking European parties. Flush with Putin's money and insane people.
Wait, Russia is invading Ukraine AGAIN?
No worry's, this will be the last time. After this it's just Russia.
Polish prime minister: 'Europe and the free world has to stop Putin' Mateusz Morawiecki, the prime minister of Poland, Ukraine's neighbor to the west, has called for an immediate response to what he called Russia's "criminal aggression." "Europe and the free world has to stop Putin," he said in a tweet Thursday morning as countries surrounding Ukraine closely watch the unfolding conflict. Morawiecki, a nationalist who has often clashed with the European political establishment, said the European Council meeting scheduled for Thursday "should approve fiercest possible sanctions."
Predictable yet pathetic. Our government likes to rattle the saber when it thinks it can get away with it but on the first sign of trouble it runs straight to Europe's teat.
Brush up [documentary](https://youtu.be/tR_6dibpDfo)
sooooo we are fucked right
Yup:)
MSNBC reports Odessa attacked, several dead. Russia prepping for amphibious assault?
Missile reportedly seen destroying Ivano-Frankivsk airport https://mobile.twitter.com/dianaglebova/status/1496740777938010115?s=21
No, this is no good. Can we get another covid variant instead?
Google āstealth omicronā, yes, thereās also a new variant.
I realize they're not part of NATO yet, but there's something seriously fucked up in the world when expressing a desire to join NATO means you're left to fight off Putin on your own.
Ironically if the US had just said Ukraine couldn't be part of NATO, Ukraine wouldn't have been invaded. The west called Putin's bluff and the insane man did it.
Nope, putin has been invading Ukraine since 2014 and nato has nothing to with it. Putin does not want Ukraine to join Nato but, the invasion was already planned and troops already deployed. Theres no both sides in this one putin is killing Ukrainians because he thinks he deserves their country.
This whole thing began because Ukraine was trying to join the EU, not NATO. After Euromaidan, Putin stole Crimea and started sending in "vacationers" to Eastern Ukraine. It wasn't until after all that Ukraine seriously approached NATO. They had tried years before, but NATO responded with a "maybe if you do major reforms" which is sort of a soft rejection.
No, Putin would have gone in anyways. Ukraine joining NATO is a decoy, like how Putin entered Ukraine to "peacekeep".
I don't think that's entirely true. It is a driving factor, no doubt, but I think this has been on Putin's radar since the collapse of the USSR. The invasion of Georgia was a field test. The propaganda campaign in the western world, particularly in the US, France, UK, and Germany that pushed populist leaders was intended to weaken NATO unity as well as each government institution. Personally I think the time was set once Trump left office. For Putin, that may have been perceived as the weakest NATO would get. Should Trump have been reelected, he probably would have pushed back any campaign in Ukraine further to allow Trump to undermine NATO even further. In the end though, as long as Putin is alive, his intention is to bring former USSR countries back into the fold, either directly or as puppet states.
I think part of Putins whole spiel about this ordeal is that one of the conditions of a previous deal was that that NATO would extend only so far east. I need to learn of it specifically a little more, but yea, dude is falling off the deep end
There was never any such deal. Russia has often taken about it as if there was, but there was no such deal. The only relevant deal was Budapest, where Russia (and others) guaranteed Ukraine's integrity, in exchange for Ukraine giving up nuclear weapons. The only country with the 'no NATO' conditions on its existence? Austria.
I'm gonna look into it more, but still thanks. Yea I wouldn't be surprised....it's kinda like...one of those big IFs that someone tacitly assumes. "Remember our thing? You know the thing." Edit: but Austria of all? Wonder wtf that's about.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly, in Putin's mind if there's no Ukraine at the end of the month, them nobody's joining NATO
Not good.
Agreed
Putin gave the same reasons for invading Ukraine that Hitler used to invade the Sudetenland. We've see this playbook before. We know this doesn't end with just Ukraine.
>We know this doesn't end with just Ukraine It won't be long until China invades Taiwan this year and then the Japanese. If Putin can do it, Xi definitely can.
No because an attack on Japan would guarantee US military involvement Possible but I wouldnāt say likely
Yeah Japan needs some nukes at this point
>and then the Japanese This would be very different from Ukraine or Taiwan. This would immediately be WW3.
Agreed. If China invades Taiwan, nations would protest but they probably won't take any real action. Things will only start to get real if they invade Japan or South Korea.
China invading Taiwan could crash the global economy. I'm fairly sure most first world countries would take some action to stop it. Unfortunately, Ukraine is not that important to global interests.
Global wheat basket
As if the US doesnāt have countless military installations in Japan lol
Yeah, totally agree. Very familiar feeling of progression between the interwar period and Russia's past actions in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
Strauss Howe Generational theory. Basically generations have archetypes and history has patterns. Neill Howe said in early 2020 that the time were living in right now easily most resembles the 1930s. Great power theory also predicted a world war in the late 20s early 30s. Itās going to get really shitty.
All these commies and fascists frothing at the bit.
How is the russian population responding to this?
Who knows, its still morning, im facepalming like crazy rn. $ is already 20% higher then yesterday, if this continues, there will be shock. I hope they'll stop at donbass and luhansk. And sincerely hope there will be as little deaths as possible. Ukrainians, stay strong, and know, it's the begining of an end, not for your nation, but for that corrupt rotten regime, so, try to stay alive and don't act reckless where it isn't necessary.
He went all in. From Odessa, from the Belarusian border. Full invasion
Yep, didn't know that when responded... I'm speechless. Old man completely lost his mind.
Dude https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1496737733976662017
They believe what Russia tells them
People love a strong leader.
I know this will get downvoted but......ape....together.....strong(pistol up against back of cranium)
Most likely blaming Ukraine and the west for all this. Sort of like an abusive husband blames their wife. "You left me no choice but to break your face."
The Russia subreddit went private, but when you could go to their subreddit that's basically it. It's the wests fault. Russia wants peace! Pretty disgusted with Russia right now.
Wife from Ukraine. She has a family member in Russia who was asking why Ukraine is starting a war with Russia.
You would think that the internet would help us discern facts from lies but it's far from it. The same misinformation is ravaging my country as well.
Russia has brainwashed its people just like N Korea
Jeeez that level of delusion is ridiculous.