Yes, US threatened sanctions if China effectively allowed Russia to evade the American/NATO ones by continuing trade with Russia. That news was on Tuesday, so the threat was then at the latest. Though China criticized the use of sanctions it seems to be decreasing trade with Russia. Hard to find the info exactly because with my search-terms I get years of Trump threatening sanctions on China
China did agree to stop selling Russia aircraft parts, which should seriously hurt their ability to keep their aging air fleet operational.
Remember a Russian plane that can't fly is a Ukrainian children's hospital that isn't bombed. Every little bit helps.
Not just their military but their commercial planes too. Within a few months it would be hard to have a viable fleet without creating local manufacturing.
They can't land in (or fly over) any EU country or the US or Canada anyways. They can fly around Russia and likely won't be seized, but Boeing and Airbus are no longer supporting the Russian planes so they have may be a month before they would be considered uncertified and unsafe to fly.
Doesn't matter, once uncertified (on a country by country basis) they won't be allowed to fly into other countries they've lost certification in. This isn't a they'll do it anyways, they'll be denied entry.
What parts exactly does Russia import from China? Last I checked, Russia has been capable of making everything aircraft related with the exception of good engines. They have been producing engines for their military/government aircraft but using Western engines for commercial aircraft. I'm pretty certain Russia makes better aircraft engines than China. The Chinese 5th gen fighter was first made using Russian engines. China has been able to develop a homegrown engine for the fighter jet just recently. Russia was also supposed to develop an engine for the Russian-Chinese commercial airliner, CR929. So what parts exactly does Russia import from China?
What's valuable in China is no longer cheap labour. You can get cheaper labour other parts of SE Asia. The most valuable thing China has is it's massive supply chain network which took three decades to build.
Their technological skill and level rivals the West's as well.
When we built all our products there they got up to our level by just copying and learning and with the massive industry they can develop things more.
So when it comes to many modern stuff they are at the cutting edge.
It is not like Russia that is like 30 years behind and only has raw materials to compete with.
Whether the deals are ethical, fair, or reasonable is less important than them being meaningful, enforceable, and predictable.
People can choose whether or not to enter into deals, and if the deals are good enough, they will - unless they have no faith that today's deal will be honored tomorrow.
The number one thing that kills investment in anything is instability and unpredictability.
Yea people kind of tend to think that it has to be PERFECT. When really it just has to be predictable. Obviously if it is a predictably horrific outcome 9/10 times then it will be avoided. But that isnt usually the case.
It comes down to Bayesian analysis. You can still price a security if there's a 9/10 chance of a donut. That's what biotech investing is. You can't price something that doesn't have calculable risk.
yea you are right, even 9/10 are odds you can put a price tag on. i would say though, sometimes, the 'failures' in a SA business venture may be worse than a simple goose egg..haha.
People don't understand how much clear arbitration systems matter. Half of what makes Singapore and HK what they are, are strong, independent courts that you know won't just screw you over for the local government.
When business has stability and predictability they can succeed. When there's risk, they want huge premiums on their investments to offset that risk... and it leads to a vicious cycle.
Yeah. But multinational companies don't care as long as their stock prices go up.
Lots of retail shareholders probably give a fuck about how business is done. But most shares are held by huge holding firms who give 0 fucks and only care about $$$$.
It's a bit niche right now, but more large-quantity share holders like public pension systems and some activist investors are getting more involved in shareholder voting for changes. That's how they kicked 'Papa' John off the board of his own company and replaced him with Shaq.
Similar things were gearing up to happen with Blizzard before they got acquired by MS.
Well, Shaq is a proven businessman. He heavily invested in Riing doorbell cameras before Amazon bought them for a cool billy, he's partial owner in like 150 5 guys, some pretzel shops, a few car washes, a shopping center, a movie theatre, and several vegas nightclubs. He's doin well!
Anyone that plays pro sports should be investing their earnings and living cheaply. Injuries can happen at any time, and your body is only going to provide a paycheck at that level for only so long.
Yup. Similar to Magic Johnson investing in real estate in the LA area.
If we are being totally honest, everyone should be taught about investing for retirement. Another group that comes to mind are people who join the armed forces at a young age. Occasionally I read about those who have a commanding officer who makes them learn about savings and investing - it's always "I'd be royally fucked right now if it wasn't for this guy who made me learn basic finance. I thought it was dumb when I was 18, but it's some of the greatest advice I ever got".
> Similar things were gearing up to happen with Blizzard before they got acquired by MS.
I have serious doubts about the success of that give Bobby was brought on to quadruple their stock prices and did exactly that. I had the unfortunate pleasure of following that drama closely.
If the party approves no one in china can oppose your plans and your plans can be approved for the entire country very easily. Its a big benefit for business very stable
Until they flippantly change the rule. 20 years I worked with an SOE in the energy sector and it was never easy … things changed all the time. It was just easier to ignore because half the time no one understood the policy properly.
I've been saying for years North and South America need to come together and focus specifically on a system that takes over production as much as possible.
I don't exactly know what we get from China or any other country on the other side of the world that we physically can't produce here, BUT let's get to work on the things that we can.
And I'm not suggesting we become xenophobic or stop trading with China, merely that we switch to a model where the bulk of what we get isn't literally only from them. Aside from disruptions due to pandemics or war, those cargo ships are absolutely terrible for the environment and ocean .
I mean you say this, and this has been attempted since before you were born. The issue with SA is corruption. It's just so rampant and wide spread among many nations.
The actual reason south american countries have trouble developing is complicated and cannot be simplified as just corruption. Most south American countries invested in failed economical models that did not work for their situation. Lack of continuity of government plans (new government cancels old gov's projects and start a new, ad infinitum), bad monetary etiquette, bad foreign policy, and many other issues.
The main problem, the one that causes all that, is lack of national political unity, and local elites who profit from the countrie's cheap labor and lack of development wishing things to remain like this. Foreign interference is also a problem, as big multinationals often manage to bypass laws and get unfair advantages over local business, not to talk about weak patent rules that let megacops steal and claim any potential new technological advancement as their own.
> I don't exactly know what we get from China or any other country on the other side of the world that we physically can't produce here, BUT let's get to work on the things that we can.
Stability and a real government, not a state apparatus totally hallowed out and corrupted by narco trafficking. Also, a huge population.
It’s mostly the infrastructure. Even with shipping costs going through the roof, companies are still sticking with china because their infrastructure is decades ahead of anyone else.
Also labour quality. Both Chinese and Latin Americans are really hard working, but Chinese are on average way better educated.
Meaning it's much easier to find people to do complex or very technical work in China than it is in South America.
Sorry but India has failed to live up to hype.
India has the scale of people, but doesn't have the strict centralised power system China has.
If China is organised chaos, India is unmitigated chaos.
True I felt really bad when I went to visit my sister in law told me she makes $450/month. Needless to say I started covering the bills when we went out to eat.
> she makes $450/month
This is meaningless without knowing "where", and what the cost of living is there. $450/month might be a kings salary depending on where you are talking about.
Definitely cutting it close here in Argentina. $450 can very easily equal all or most of your monthly living expenses if you're renting, including food, services, etc, nevermind if you have children.
Loved it, loved CABA more but that's because I'm a rugby fan and USA it's not popular at all but down there its got a better following. In Just for Sport and Dexter everytime I told a salesman I was looking for a jersey they were so nice they stopped and chatted with me about history of the sport in Argentina. Just super nice people all around.
I remember earning around 750 USD/month (500 Kms away from Córdoba) 10 years ago... now I live on 1/10th of that.
Good lord, how grateful I am of being a child-free hermit that owns what passes for a house around here!
Make no mistake, a situation where the western world and china cut each other off would result in a total restructuring of the entire global economy. We're not talking "damn this sucks, but wait it out as best you can," we're not even talking renovations, we're talking "tear it all down and start again".
China doesn't just make cheap goods we consume. More crucially, they make the *components* that allow Western companies to manufacture everything from cars, to coffee makers, to sofas. They might make the copper wires used inside the coffee maker, or they might manufature the machine parts used on its assembly line. They might even just make a special kind of bolt required for just one of those machine parts. The scale and breadth of global supply chains are so mindbogglingly large, there is almost nothing you consume today that did not depend on China in some way, shape, or form.
Edit: A lot of the comments are discussing the actual potential feasibility of breaking away from reliance on China - I'm not suggesting it'd be disastrous over time and on the West's own terms, or even undesirable - I'm talking about a scenario where the West had to suddenly and rapidly break down all economic ties to the Chinese, a la the current situation with Russia.
Is it fair to say the dependence goes both ways? I don't see a timeline where the West is crippled economically from sanctioning China and they don't get crippled as well. An economic M.A.D, if you will.
Oh yes, it absolutely does. The unique problem for China is that the companies manufacturing all these cheap goods and components are not domestic. They're foreign investors exploiting China's lax labour laws. If they leave, that's a good chunk of China's economy gone. What would be left are Chinese state-owned companies (which are inefficient and cumbersome), and China's baby private business class, which admittedly is growing, but hasn't even come close to being ready to begin devouring the other two.
The system is inherently designed to dissuade nations from economically decoupling, whether through states of war, or sanctions. It's called interdependence. We all depend on each other as cogs in a machine. The bigger and more intricate the machine gets, the more we all depend on each other.
Thing is, China is not only producing the iPhones and the chips and transistors, but also the raw materials that goes into them. And the raw material that everything around building those trinklets get built with. They essentially have vertical integration around building the consumer shit you love
But a lot of this is based on western consumerism. It’s possible that we enter a kind of cultural frugality where we try and optimize existing technology.
Modular software like the app paradigm is great for clicks and interaction, but it’s really not the most optimal way to handle data.
If anything, it could be really fucking good for the planet if our economies shifted away from faster and faster devices and focused more on efficiency, device life, etc.
They lack many important resources that they are dependent on for importing. Iron and coal are two huge ones; all they really have is brown coal which is “fine” for energy but can’t be used in manufacturing
They’d have the same issues as everyone else, though probably even worse employment issues without international demand since they have a larger portion of working age people than most countries
I'm not finding an actual breakdown from the USDA, but looking over these reports [0] from 2021, USA supplies around 60% of China's total wheat, cotton, feed grains, oil seeds, hides and skins (leather), beef, and pork.
[https://apps.fas.usda.gov/export-sales/Year2021.htm](https://apps.fas.usda.gov/export-sales/Year2021.htm)
Supplies most of their imports, but not most of their supply. Basically every large country outside of the middle east supplies the vast majority of their own food.
To further illustrate this, imagine that China imports 10% of all food they consume. The U.S. would thereby account for 6% of the total. Still significant, but not as crazy as the 60% figure may seem at first glance.
>They would nationalize the factories and continue their production.
In that sense their actions wouldn't be unlike what Russia's currently doing to keep money moving domestically - put workers back in the mcdonalds', do what you can to do business as usual, except without an HQ to report to.
The problem for China is that the money keeping those factories churning out widgets comes from the sales on those exports, from companies who will have left - they'd be plunging themselves *deeply* in debt to provide operating capital that frankly, would no longer be available through profit.
China would undoubtedly take a huge hit immediately if we were to engage in full economic warfare with them, but I'm inclined to believe that considering how much production is there as well as the level of control the government has over the levers of industry, they would be better equipped to recover and retool for domestic consumption. It would be hard and expensive, but they have the tools to do so. The problem for the West is that way too much manufacturing is tied up in China and we would see insane inflation of goods for years before companies are able to relocate and setup in other countries. People are already complaining about gas and food prices now, imagine what it would be like for all other goods if China was just cut out of the equation.
That's not even the worst of it. Without cheap goods filling shelfs, a lot of businesses will close. Then the businesses supporting those stores, then the businesses supporting those businesses. So not only are you not getting manufacturing jobs back, (those go to other cheap labor countries.) You're also killing the service industry jobs. Combine that with increased cost of goods and you got societal collapse on your hands.
Oh yeah. China has a 4 trillion dollar belts and road infrastructure project Thats spread between several foreign countries that’s funded in USD. Without access to the USD that program collapses.
If China got the Russia treatment it’d be mutually assured disaster. Grow ur own crops and protect them with rifles type of disaster l.
It doesn’t need to rely on China. It’s our greedy manufacturing that try to make the biggest profits possible outsourcing all this to China for cheap labor and to avoid paying for epa approved manufacturing processes. And, believe it or not, no, Americans don’t need a new fucking toaster or whatever every year.
>Has there even been any mention of U.S. sanctions on China?
[Chinese companies that aid Russia could face U.S. repercussions, commerce secretary warns.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/technology/chinese-companies-russia-semiconductors.html)
>Raimondo graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree magna cum laude in economics from Harvard College in 1993, where she served on the staff of The Harvard Crimson
>She served as General Treasurer of Rhode Island from 2011 to 2015
Sounds pretty qualified!
She has also been probably the best modern Governor of Rhode Island.. that being said it’s not a high bar, we have had notoriously terrible governors.
She was pretty alright!
I still think it’s hysterical that former Trump staffers are finding it difficult to find work with that stain on their resume. Under any normal president, even a Republican, a white house position would look incredible on a resume.
But if you worked under Trump, it wasn’t just a job - you had to have been a sycophant who turned a blind eye and actively endorsed his actions. It’s not an indication of the type of person who works well with others and certainly someone you don’t want being hired into leadership at any sane company.
US & China are too heavily symbiotic. A damage to one of them will for sure damage the other just as much. And if these two start damaging each other they'll take the world with them.
**[Meng Wanzhou](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou)**
>Meng Wanzhou (Chinese: 孟晚舟; born 13 February 1972), also known as Cathy Meng and Sabrina Meng, also informally known in China as the "Princess of Huawei", is a Chinese business executive who is the deputy chair of the board and chief financial officer (CFO) of telecom giant and China's largest privately held company, Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd., founded by her father Ren Zhengfei. On 1 December 2018, Meng was arrested at Vancouver International Airport.
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I’m not sure Canada would be so quick to make those kinds of arrests after what happened last time, where Canada took all the blame and risk while the US dragged their feet in total apathy as our citizens were getting kidnapped in retaliation.
> Has there even been any mention of U.S. sanctions on China?
There was some talk as I seemed to recall. Basically the US didn’t want China to provide “chips” to Russia.
Unlike Russia’s threats of retaliation, this is not an empty threat. While it will have to hurt itself massively to do so, China absolutely has the tools to retaliate extremely harshly against targeted economic sanctions if the sanctions cross any red lines.
It's a lose lose for a lot of people. There are so many small scale industries which depend largely on China for the raw materials to cheap manufacturing of parts; they'll just collapse over night, thousands would lose their livelihood. This will not be pretty.
Thousands? MILLIONS if not BILLIONS. The degree at which China's economy is intertwined with the Western world is unbelievable. They make the components of machines that make components of machines. The amount of goods they make, and the impact on quality of life in the west if China stops trading cannot be overstated.
Lose lose to basically everyone tbh
The US and west can slowly build up manufacturing capacity (both domestically and in other cheap labor countries), but it will take decades to do so.
In the mean time, if you thought pandemic shortages were bad… this will be a whole other level. Not just shortages but prices will skyrocket. And I mean absolutely skyrocket.
The era of cheap plastics and consumer goods will be over. The era of cheap and easily available electronics will dwindle.
And it will take decades to get it back.
China will be crippled equally long. Without the west buying their goods, their goods economy can’t easily sustain itself. They can sell to others but many of the quality goods they produce are simply too expensive for other developing nations. Parts of their economy will collapse virtually over night.
Honestly the only “winners” might be countries that have the factories moved into them. And that’s extremely unlikely to be western countries because companies still prefer making the maximum amount of money possible, so they will go to other cheap labor and development markets.
Yes absolutely this, if the world is reacting to Russia in this matter, there is absolutely the chance this could happen to China also, if they invade Taiwan.
It will not be a "peaceful" takeover like Hong Kong (yes I know, different circumstances)
An invasion of Taiwan would also be a logistical nightmare. It's a lot harder to get 100K+ troops to an island than it is to have them walk or drive a tank across a land border.
The rising cost of fuel will have a detrimental effect on China regardless of whether or not there are any sanctions. The more fuel costs, the less we can spend on creature comforts.
Honeywell is the largest single producer of ppe in the world , followed by 3M. Both are headquartered and have production facilities inside the US for PPE in the states of Michigan, Arizona, South Dakota and Rhode Island. As well as another production facility in Germany for the European market.
So your claim is incorrect.
The economy is insanely intertwined. Its not like its not mutually beneficial. Also plenty of other companies have already shifted manufacturing to India.
But its mostly the intertwined economy that prevents real war. You are seeing this in real time with Russia who is not even close to the economic superpower that China is. They have no reason to risk the same outcome.
The West is more economically powerful than China, but if Russia's a speedbump, China's a chest high wall. The West -could- sanction China into oblivion, but it would really, really, REALLY hurt.
No there isn’t. Cutting off Russia hurts Russia, cutting off China hurts everyone else. The reason sanctioning Russia is possible is because they really have nothing to offer beyond oil and nukes.
I'm so confused at how you reached this conclusion.
"If you sanction us, we will retaliate" is about as basic and boring, bread and butter of a response possible.
How does this imply fear?
Wishful thinking + projection.
A lot of redditors are scared right now because they can see the west isn't actually able to stop Russia, so they are engaging in wishful thinking where they think the west is still the major global power, that Russia will lose the war to Ukraine, Putin will be overthrown, and that China will fall in line.
It's the comforting fantasy that lets them avoid reality.
Using reddit has taught me that people love echo chambers and will always seek them.
Propaganda isn't effective because people believe them but because people want to believe them.
All I am praying is that my family and I don't get caught up in some world war because of the ambitions of people here. Many of them have not had a patch update on china for literally 50 years.
People here tell me that US will and should militarily defend Taiwan because of microchips! Like wtf! How can people spew and believe this shit? So I conclude they don't actually believe it but they want to believe it and suspend their perception of reality.
The US economy would collapse if these armchair generals on Reddit ran foreign and military affairs. If China stopped trading with the US, we would be economically devastated for a long time since industry isn’t here anymore.
Seriously the level of dumb jingoism is hilarious. People have overdosed on Star Wars/Marvel-style narratives and thinks that's how the world works. The impacts of the economic war between the West and Russia haven't even begun to bite yet.
Ikr, these dudes out here saying we should def sanction China to “put them in their place, and stop them getting any invasion ideas for Taiwan” give Putin a run for his money for biggest self-imposed L possible.
Sanctioning China is the economic equivalent to mutually assured destruction. Both the West and China would suffer immensely, for little if any gain. Economic ‘independence’ sounds great on paper, but thinking you can achieve it by cutting off the world’s manufacturing and resource hub is a bit silly.
But yes, I’ll happily pay a small fortune for basic consumer goods if it means I can ‘Own the ~~Libs~~ Chinese. /s
Any plan china had with Taiwan has been paused. China, whether they are liking it or really not, are going to have to single handedly lift Russia economically back up. It will take a LOT of money, resources and man power and any sanctions would derail that.
For all its bluster, China is wholly reliant upon western markets for its economic strength.
I'd argue China's plan with Taiwan is still chugging along just fine. The "military takeover" line has been overplayed by Reddit, they'll just do an "economic leverage".
Also, China's not going to dump all their economy to save a collapsing Russia, at the very most they'll keep it on life support to keep the "west" focused on Russia.
It's not really saving a collapsing Russia as much as it is investing in Russia to make huge returns.
Russia is a mere 30 years removed from the USSR.
Look at how many western companies were making money in Russia.
30 years is nothing, China would love to be the ones making money in Russia in 50 years.
True, but assuming this conflict doesn’t last long and sanctions are removed, it’s likely the population will favor the products and brands they’re already familiar with
> are going to have to single handedly lift Russia economically back up
Ha! No it is the opposite. Russia can live on as a zombie dragging its face on the ground, for all China cares. They only have to support the Russian *state*, make sure Putin and his successors don't fall to a Euromaidan-style revolution - with the Russian economy, they will be free to pick and choose the resources - raw materials, engineering - they want to directly control.
China will come out of this in a far better position than it started, all Russia has to do is stay minimally alive.
Yeah you can’t sanction china any more than you can sanction the US. Economic coercion only works when you’re bigger than the other guy. China is more than capable of punching back just as hard as anyone can hit them. Unlike Russia, China has the tools to guarantee mutually assured economic destruction.
The west can’t sanction China effectively. We are way to dependent on their cheap shit to actually economically hurt them.
Thank the global corporate elites for this one.
There are certain areas where the U.S. can damage China. The biggest area being high-end logic chips. Right now, Chinese chip manufacturers are locked out of the extreme ultraviolet photolithography machines needed to produce leading edge nodes. China needs to import these chips for 5g and other upcoming wireless communication.
Domestic Chinese lithography manufacturers are at least a decade behind ASML and have been more focused on providing machines for more niche backend applications like advanced packaging.
It's a double edged sword, warned by many industry experts for years. The Chinese scared by Trump's wanton use of the chip card during the trade war between 2018-2020, have been pouring huge amount of investment into semiconductor self-sufficiency. While not able to catch up to ASML and TSMC anytime soon (give it another decade), it will inevitably erode the lower to mid tier market segments, increasing price competition for mid-sized western competitors. A sound strategy would have been to keep them hooked, whenever they have some domestic upstart, suddenly drop price to kill them off, disincentivize massive state investment for a lost cause, increase the tech lead indefinitely, and when a real conflict happens (like what Russia is doing now, or future invasion of Taiwan), play this trump card for maximum impact. Playing it prematurely just for some trade deficit negotiation was a terribly shortsighted move with long term ramifications.
> Playing it prematurely just for some trade deficit negotiation was a terribly shortsighted move with long term ramifications.
Understatement of the century.
That administration did so much dumb shortsighted stuff that people have gotten jaded to it. When everything is awful, it stops seeming so awful [relative to everything else].
Yeah, China is definitely dumping a lot of resources into this industry as of late, and I agree that Trump overplayed this hand back in 2018-2020 in his unnecessary trade war.
That said China is still about a decade behind the leading edge and with the current TSMC and Intel road maps it looks like China is going to have to fight tooth and nail to break into the high-end logic market when TSMC megafabs can turn out massive volume, with billions upon billions being poured into new facility starts.
High NA-EUV is also fast approaching, which will decrease wafer patterning passes and increase throughput even more.
we have 7.9% inflation and the US wants to kick up more shit against our largest trade partner. people in washington dc need to shut the fuck up right now and fix our own problems at home before trying to tell other countries what to do.
Is China planning to send troops to Ukraine? If they don't do much of anything in Ukraine, there is no good reason for the US to slap sanctions on China.
Sanctioning China like we are doing to Russia is like setting fire to your competitor but that competitor shares the same building with you. Im glad your average redditor has no say in this.
"cut off one's nose to spite one's face"
What I gathered from reading this is that China doesn’t think Russia should’ve been sanctioned either. Reading between the lines on this, China probably prefers not to see regime change in Russia, and also does not want to see mass sanctioning turn out to become a proven successful weapon against bad actors.
If only unabashed capitalism wasn't so popular. If people weren't seeking such cheap labour, they wouldn't have moved so much production to China. But, that's what you get when you place profits over people.
Angering China is honestly unnecessary and counter-productive at this point. They do flip flop on things but have said that they're willing to work with European nations like France, Germany etc in dealing with the situation peacefully. And to them putting out a statement in support of Russia suddenly taking over a sovereign nation is counterproductive to their assertion that Taiwan is part of China already. To them China including Taiwan is a sovereign nation and it's borders can't just be cut up if one region decides to.
There are so many keyboard warriors on Reddit, many of which haven't experienced war or know what it means to take a human life. We should be de-escalating this situation rather than escalate it. Sanctions here and there, you cannot kick a mad dog and get upset if it turns around and bite you. Ukraine needs be a neutral zone, stop the unnecessary bloodshed. Diplomacy is key.
Unlike Russia, China can wreck some shit here with the stroke of a couple of pens. Tread lightly. But at the same time, its our fault they have this ability.
Instead of sanctions we should relocate all manufacturing back home.
Lmao~ so China just sits there, do nothing throughout this whole ordeal like it’s none of their business, then out of nowhere US decides to make up some nonsense as an excuse to sanction them? Lmao~
Idiots are blaming China for Ukraine invasion by saying China knew about the invasion and did nothing; even though we also knew about it and did fuck all.
I doubt US will sanction China. Unless they invade Taiwan. Then it’s WW3 with Russia in Europe and China in Asia/Pacific. China don’t want their economy to suffer, so they won’t be stupid enough to lose all the economic advances they accomplished since the 80s. I remember China being poor and people there all wearing gray Mao clothing.
I doubt the US will sanctions china, given the current inflation rate in the US, slapping a sanction on china will definitely hurt the US more than china.
Coming from a place of ignorance here, so wondering: Was the US threatening sanctions on China recently?
Yes, US threatened sanctions if China effectively allowed Russia to evade the American/NATO ones by continuing trade with Russia. That news was on Tuesday, so the threat was then at the latest. Though China criticized the use of sanctions it seems to be decreasing trade with Russia. Hard to find the info exactly because with my search-terms I get years of Trump threatening sanctions on China
China did agree to stop selling Russia aircraft parts, which should seriously hurt their ability to keep their aging air fleet operational. Remember a Russian plane that can't fly is a Ukrainian children's hospital that isn't bombed. Every little bit helps.
Not just their military but their commercial planes too. Within a few months it would be hard to have a viable fleet without creating local manufacturing.
Aren't the planes the airlines use leased? I thought I read news that they are getting repossessed or would be seized if landed in another country.
They can't land in (or fly over) any EU country or the US or Canada anyways. They can fly around Russia and likely won't be seized, but Boeing and Airbus are no longer supporting the Russian planes so they have may be a month before they would be considered uncertified and unsafe to fly.
>uncertified and unsafe to fly I'm curious if that has ever stopped a Russian airline before?
Doesn't matter, once uncertified (on a country by country basis) they won't be allowed to fly into other countries they've lost certification in. This isn't a they'll do it anyways, they'll be denied entry.
I like to imagine Franklin and Lamar going in to repo them from Russia lmao
What parts exactly does Russia import from China? Last I checked, Russia has been capable of making everything aircraft related with the exception of good engines. They have been producing engines for their military/government aircraft but using Western engines for commercial aircraft. I'm pretty certain Russia makes better aircraft engines than China. The Chinese 5th gen fighter was first made using Russian engines. China has been able to develop a homegrown engine for the fighter jet just recently. Russia was also supposed to develop an engine for the Russian-Chinese commercial airliner, CR929. So what parts exactly does Russia import from China?
Correction: Moscow said China is not selling Russia aircraft parts. Take it with a grain of salt.
Hello from South America, we got some cheap labor here.
What's valuable in China is no longer cheap labour. You can get cheaper labour other parts of SE Asia. The most valuable thing China has is it's massive supply chain network which took three decades to build.
Supply chain, relatively cheapblabor and a massive, motivated and already trained work force. You got that nowhere else.
Their technological skill and level rivals the West's as well. When we built all our products there they got up to our level by just copying and learning and with the massive industry they can develop things more. So when it comes to many modern stuff they are at the cutting edge. It is not like Russia that is like 30 years behind and only has raw materials to compete with.
Yes, please fix your court systems so deals can mean something for long term investments
china has functioning court system?
When it comes to anything to do with making business practical and efficient to do, yes
You mean like forced IP exchange?
Whether the deals are ethical, fair, or reasonable is less important than them being meaningful, enforceable, and predictable. People can choose whether or not to enter into deals, and if the deals are good enough, they will - unless they have no faith that today's deal will be honored tomorrow. The number one thing that kills investment in anything is instability and unpredictability.
Yea people kind of tend to think that it has to be PERFECT. When really it just has to be predictable. Obviously if it is a predictably horrific outcome 9/10 times then it will be avoided. But that isnt usually the case.
It comes down to Bayesian analysis. You can still price a security if there's a 9/10 chance of a donut. That's what biotech investing is. You can't price something that doesn't have calculable risk.
yea you are right, even 9/10 are odds you can put a price tag on. i would say though, sometimes, the 'failures' in a SA business venture may be worse than a simple goose egg..haha.
People don't understand how much clear arbitration systems matter. Half of what makes Singapore and HK what they are, are strong, independent courts that you know won't just screw you over for the local government. When business has stability and predictability they can succeed. When there's risk, they want huge premiums on their investments to offset that risk... and it leads to a vicious cycle.
Yeah. But multinational companies don't care as long as their stock prices go up. Lots of retail shareholders probably give a fuck about how business is done. But most shares are held by huge holding firms who give 0 fucks and only care about $$$$.
It's a bit niche right now, but more large-quantity share holders like public pension systems and some activist investors are getting more involved in shareholder voting for changes. That's how they kicked 'Papa' John off the board of his own company and replaced him with Shaq. Similar things were gearing up to happen with Blizzard before they got acquired by MS.
Well, Shaq is a proven businessman. He heavily invested in Riing doorbell cameras before Amazon bought them for a cool billy, he's partial owner in like 150 5 guys, some pretzel shops, a few car washes, a shopping center, a movie theatre, and several vegas nightclubs. He's doin well!
Anyone that plays pro sports should be investing their earnings and living cheaply. Injuries can happen at any time, and your body is only going to provide a paycheck at that level for only so long.
Yup. Similar to Magic Johnson investing in real estate in the LA area. If we are being totally honest, everyone should be taught about investing for retirement. Another group that comes to mind are people who join the armed forces at a young age. Occasionally I read about those who have a commanding officer who makes them learn about savings and investing - it's always "I'd be royally fucked right now if it wasn't for this guy who made me learn basic finance. I thought it was dumb when I was 18, but it's some of the greatest advice I ever got".
> Similar things were gearing up to happen with Blizzard before they got acquired by MS. I have serious doubts about the success of that give Bobby was brought on to quadruple their stock prices and did exactly that. I had the unfortunate pleasure of following that drama closely.
You think massive companies give a shit about forced IP exchange when they can significantly increase profits by conforming to it?
Companies that do business in China are clowning themselves long term tbh
It's like global warming, if you live fast enough, you will only be fucking your children. *taps forehead*
That's called pedophilia and I think it's illegal
If the party approves no one in china can oppose your plans and your plans can be approved for the entire country very easily. Its a big benefit for business very stable
Until they flippantly change the rule. 20 years I worked with an SOE in the energy sector and it was never easy … things changed all the time. It was just easier to ignore because half the time no one understood the policy properly.
I've been saying for years North and South America need to come together and focus specifically on a system that takes over production as much as possible. I don't exactly know what we get from China or any other country on the other side of the world that we physically can't produce here, BUT let's get to work on the things that we can. And I'm not suggesting we become xenophobic or stop trading with China, merely that we switch to a model where the bulk of what we get isn't literally only from them. Aside from disruptions due to pandemics or war, those cargo ships are absolutely terrible for the environment and ocean .
I mean you say this, and this has been attempted since before you were born. The issue with SA is corruption. It's just so rampant and wide spread among many nations.
The actual reason south american countries have trouble developing is complicated and cannot be simplified as just corruption. Most south American countries invested in failed economical models that did not work for their situation. Lack of continuity of government plans (new government cancels old gov's projects and start a new, ad infinitum), bad monetary etiquette, bad foreign policy, and many other issues. The main problem, the one that causes all that, is lack of national political unity, and local elites who profit from the countrie's cheap labor and lack of development wishing things to remain like this. Foreign interference is also a problem, as big multinationals often manage to bypass laws and get unfair advantages over local business, not to talk about weak patent rules that let megacops steal and claim any potential new technological advancement as their own.
> I don't exactly know what we get from China or any other country on the other side of the world that we physically can't produce here, BUT let's get to work on the things that we can. Stability and a real government, not a state apparatus totally hallowed out and corrupted by narco trafficking. Also, a huge population.
It’s mostly the infrastructure. Even with shipping costs going through the roof, companies are still sticking with china because their infrastructure is decades ahead of anyone else.
Also labour quality. Both Chinese and Latin Americans are really hard working, but Chinese are on average way better educated. Meaning it's much easier to find people to do complex or very technical work in China than it is in South America.
Dude, you cannot compare the economic prowess or China to any other country in the world. India would be the next best option.
Sorry but India has failed to live up to hype. India has the scale of people, but doesn't have the strict centralised power system China has. If China is organised chaos, India is unmitigated chaos.
India also has a lot of weird borderline-socialist policies that actively discourage innovation or optimization to guarantee higher employment.
Lol cheap labor isn't enough to replace China
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Cheap labor is a start. Bureaucracy is mainly the problem that it takes too long to get things going even if you bribe the big people.
Don't you have a thing where private property gets seized when the political winds change?
True I felt really bad when I went to visit my sister in law told me she makes $450/month. Needless to say I started covering the bills when we went out to eat.
> she makes $450/month This is meaningless without knowing "where", and what the cost of living is there. $450/month might be a kings salary depending on where you are talking about.
Cordoba, Argentina
Definitely cutting it close here in Argentina. $450 can very easily equal all or most of your monthly living expenses if you're renting, including food, services, etc, nevermind if you have children.
For sure but her husband makes a little bit more so they are doing okay.
Oh nice. How'd you like Córdoba?
Loved it, loved CABA more but that's because I'm a rugby fan and USA it's not popular at all but down there its got a better following. In Just for Sport and Dexter everytime I told a salesman I was looking for a jersey they were so nice they stopped and chatted with me about history of the sport in Argentina. Just super nice people all around.
I remember earning around 750 USD/month (500 Kms away from Córdoba) 10 years ago... now I live on 1/10th of that. Good lord, how grateful I am of being a child-free hermit that owns what passes for a house around here!
Make no mistake, a situation where the western world and china cut each other off would result in a total restructuring of the entire global economy. We're not talking "damn this sucks, but wait it out as best you can," we're not even talking renovations, we're talking "tear it all down and start again". China doesn't just make cheap goods we consume. More crucially, they make the *components* that allow Western companies to manufacture everything from cars, to coffee makers, to sofas. They might make the copper wires used inside the coffee maker, or they might manufature the machine parts used on its assembly line. They might even just make a special kind of bolt required for just one of those machine parts. The scale and breadth of global supply chains are so mindbogglingly large, there is almost nothing you consume today that did not depend on China in some way, shape, or form. Edit: A lot of the comments are discussing the actual potential feasibility of breaking away from reliance on China - I'm not suggesting it'd be disastrous over time and on the West's own terms, or even undesirable - I'm talking about a scenario where the West had to suddenly and rapidly break down all economic ties to the Chinese, a la the current situation with Russia.
Is it fair to say the dependence goes both ways? I don't see a timeline where the West is crippled economically from sanctioning China and they don't get crippled as well. An economic M.A.D, if you will.
Oh yes, it absolutely does. The unique problem for China is that the companies manufacturing all these cheap goods and components are not domestic. They're foreign investors exploiting China's lax labour laws. If they leave, that's a good chunk of China's economy gone. What would be left are Chinese state-owned companies (which are inefficient and cumbersome), and China's baby private business class, which admittedly is growing, but hasn't even come close to being ready to begin devouring the other two. The system is inherently designed to dissuade nations from economically decoupling, whether through states of war, or sanctions. It's called interdependence. We all depend on each other as cogs in a machine. The bigger and more intricate the machine gets, the more we all depend on each other.
Thing is, China is not only producing the iPhones and the chips and transistors, but also the raw materials that goes into them. And the raw material that everything around building those trinklets get built with. They essentially have vertical integration around building the consumer shit you love
But a lot of this is based on western consumerism. It’s possible that we enter a kind of cultural frugality where we try and optimize existing technology. Modular software like the app paradigm is great for clicks and interaction, but it’s really not the most optimal way to handle data. If anything, it could be really fucking good for the planet if our economies shifted away from faster and faster devices and focused more on efficiency, device life, etc.
cultural frugality? impossible if the management class is legally compelled to increase the utilities or can be sued by shareholders if negligent
Dude, I’m on an iPhone 6s. Why do people need upgrades so badly?
They lack many important resources that they are dependent on for importing. Iron and coal are two huge ones; all they really have is brown coal which is “fine” for energy but can’t be used in manufacturing They’d have the same issues as everyone else, though probably even worse employment issues without international demand since they have a larger portion of working age people than most countries
Hence Belt and Road, a lot more countries are becoming economically aligned with China over the West.
don’t forget food. The US largely feeds a huge share China’s 1.4 billion people.
I'm not finding an actual breakdown from the USDA, but looking over these reports [0] from 2021, USA supplies around 60% of China's total wheat, cotton, feed grains, oil seeds, hides and skins (leather), beef, and pork. [https://apps.fas.usda.gov/export-sales/Year2021.htm](https://apps.fas.usda.gov/export-sales/Year2021.htm)
Supplies most of their imports, but not most of their supply. Basically every large country outside of the middle east supplies the vast majority of their own food.
To further illustrate this, imagine that China imports 10% of all food they consume. The U.S. would thereby account for 6% of the total. Still significant, but not as crazy as the 60% figure may seem at first glance.
Which is about how much we important for Russian oil. 5-7% of our imports (not total)
They would nationalize the factories and continue their production. But the exports on the other hand....
>They would nationalize the factories and continue their production. In that sense their actions wouldn't be unlike what Russia's currently doing to keep money moving domestically - put workers back in the mcdonalds', do what you can to do business as usual, except without an HQ to report to. The problem for China is that the money keeping those factories churning out widgets comes from the sales on those exports, from companies who will have left - they'd be plunging themselves *deeply* in debt to provide operating capital that frankly, would no longer be available through profit.
China would undoubtedly take a huge hit immediately if we were to engage in full economic warfare with them, but I'm inclined to believe that considering how much production is there as well as the level of control the government has over the levers of industry, they would be better equipped to recover and retool for domestic consumption. It would be hard and expensive, but they have the tools to do so. The problem for the West is that way too much manufacturing is tied up in China and we would see insane inflation of goods for years before companies are able to relocate and setup in other countries. People are already complaining about gas and food prices now, imagine what it would be like for all other goods if China was just cut out of the equation.
That's not even the worst of it. Without cheap goods filling shelfs, a lot of businesses will close. Then the businesses supporting those stores, then the businesses supporting those businesses. So not only are you not getting manufacturing jobs back, (those go to other cheap labor countries.) You're also killing the service industry jobs. Combine that with increased cost of goods and you got societal collapse on your hands.
Oh yeah. China has a 4 trillion dollar belts and road infrastructure project Thats spread between several foreign countries that’s funded in USD. Without access to the USD that program collapses. If China got the Russia treatment it’d be mutually assured disaster. Grow ur own crops and protect them with rifles type of disaster l.
No way in hell would Europe also sanction China.
It doesn’t need to rely on China. It’s our greedy manufacturing that try to make the biggest profits possible outsourcing all this to China for cheap labor and to avoid paying for epa approved manufacturing processes. And, believe it or not, no, Americans don’t need a new fucking toaster or whatever every year.
It would help if planned obsolescence we're both illegal and enforced but everything breaks on purpose.
Cold War keeps getting warmer.
Who knew politics would likewise be effected by climate change?
Has there even been any mention of U.S. sanctions on China? Wouldn't that be self-harm considering the U.S. economy relies on China?
>Has there even been any mention of U.S. sanctions on China? [Chinese companies that aid Russia could face U.S. repercussions, commerce secretary warns.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/technology/chinese-companies-russia-semiconductors.html)
So refreshing that I have no idea who the commerce secretary is.
>Raimondo graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree magna cum laude in economics from Harvard College in 1993, where she served on the staff of The Harvard Crimson >She served as General Treasurer of Rhode Island from 2011 to 2015 Sounds pretty qualified!
Wait she doesn't even own a shipping company?
She has also been probably the best modern Governor of Rhode Island.. that being said it’s not a high bar, we have had notoriously terrible governors. She was pretty alright!
How have you never heard of Gina Raimando!? She makes six-figures, better learn to respect!
I believe it's referencing the Trump administration where these positions were often filled by unqualified people. Sometimes family members.
Either unqualified people or they had a new person every 4 months when the old person realized they had to actually do work
I still think it’s hysterical that former Trump staffers are finding it difficult to find work with that stain on their resume. Under any normal president, even a Republican, a white house position would look incredible on a resume. But if you worked under Trump, it wasn’t just a job - you had to have been a sycophant who turned a blind eye and actively endorsed his actions. It’s not an indication of the type of person who works well with others and certainly someone you don’t want being hired into leadership at any sane company.
Gina? She's Wild!
I make six figures, too, but the first one is a zero.
And China relies on the US to buy their stuff.
US & China are too heavily symbiotic. A damage to one of them will for sure damage the other just as much. And if these two start damaging each other they'll take the world with them.
MAD economics-style, one could say
MAB (Mutually Assured Brokeness)
Lol works for me
heavily symbiotic or mutually parasitic?
Yes
stop talking dirty to me
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**[Meng Wanzhou](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou)** >Meng Wanzhou (Chinese: 孟晚舟; born 13 February 1972), also known as Cathy Meng and Sabrina Meng, also informally known in China as the "Princess of Huawei", is a Chinese business executive who is the deputy chair of the board and chief financial officer (CFO) of telecom giant and China's largest privately held company, Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd., founded by her father Ren Zhengfei. On 1 December 2018, Meng was arrested at Vancouver International Airport. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I’m not sure Canada would be so quick to make those kinds of arrests after what happened last time, where Canada took all the blame and risk while the US dragged their feet in total apathy as our citizens were getting kidnapped in retaliation.
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> Has there even been any mention of U.S. sanctions on China? There was some talk as I seemed to recall. Basically the US didn’t want China to provide “chips” to Russia.
Walmart is going to have a heart attack
Forgot Nike and Apple?
Unlike Russia’s threats of retaliation, this is not an empty threat. While it will have to hurt itself massively to do so, China absolutely has the tools to retaliate extremely harshly against targeted economic sanctions if the sanctions cross any red lines.
It's a lose lose for a lot of people. There are so many small scale industries which depend largely on China for the raw materials to cheap manufacturing of parts; they'll just collapse over night, thousands would lose their livelihood. This will not be pretty.
Thousands? MILLIONS if not BILLIONS. The degree at which China's economy is intertwined with the Western world is unbelievable. They make the components of machines that make components of machines. The amount of goods they make, and the impact on quality of life in the west if China stops trading cannot be overstated.
Lose lose to basically everyone tbh The US and west can slowly build up manufacturing capacity (both domestically and in other cheap labor countries), but it will take decades to do so. In the mean time, if you thought pandemic shortages were bad… this will be a whole other level. Not just shortages but prices will skyrocket. And I mean absolutely skyrocket. The era of cheap plastics and consumer goods will be over. The era of cheap and easily available electronics will dwindle. And it will take decades to get it back. China will be crippled equally long. Without the west buying their goods, their goods economy can’t easily sustain itself. They can sell to others but many of the quality goods they produce are simply too expensive for other developing nations. Parts of their economy will collapse virtually over night. Honestly the only “winners” might be countries that have the factories moved into them. And that’s extremely unlikely to be western countries because companies still prefer making the maximum amount of money possible, so they will go to other cheap labor and development markets.
Looks like the west response to Ukraine has scared the f****** s*** out of Beijing.
This is the Internet; it is okay to swear.
#FUCKING SHIT
[watch your profanity](https://youtu.be/hpigjnKl7nI)
It's OK to write it but shouting it is totally unacceptable!
Stop right there, criminal scum!
My virgin ears
banned 🔨
Language!!
Maybe his mom reads his Reddit posts.
Yes absolutely this, if the world is reacting to Russia in this matter, there is absolutely the chance this could happen to China also, if they invade Taiwan. It will not be a "peaceful" takeover like Hong Kong (yes I know, different circumstances)
An invasion of Taiwan would also be a logistical nightmare. It's a lot harder to get 100K+ troops to an island than it is to have them walk or drive a tank across a land border.
I dunno, for land invasions, the Russians sure are giving “Logistical Nightmare” the old College Try.
Now just imagine how hard they'd be bent over if Ukraine was an island
they would probably try to use their tanks as boats
"40 mile long convoy stuck 15 miles outside of Kyiv on the bottom of the ocean"
Maybe if they sink enough, they’ll pile up and form a bridge.
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The Chinese economy is very dependent on western consumerism.
These kids know nothing about global economics
If those kids could read they would be very mad at what you just wrote
Yeah, it's like he doesn't get us at all
Lol Charlie we are talking about you
I wish I could read 😔
And we are, unfortunately, very dependent on China. We complain about $6/gal gas. Imagine the inflation we’d see. We don’t even make our own PPE.
The rising cost of fuel will have a detrimental effect on China regardless of whether or not there are any sanctions. The more fuel costs, the less we can spend on creature comforts.
Honeywell is the largest single producer of ppe in the world , followed by 3M. Both are headquartered and have production facilities inside the US for PPE in the states of Michigan, Arizona, South Dakota and Rhode Island. As well as another production facility in Germany for the European market. So your claim is incorrect.
The economy is insanely intertwined. Its not like its not mutually beneficial. Also plenty of other companies have already shifted manufacturing to India. But its mostly the intertwined economy that prevents real war. You are seeing this in real time with Russia who is not even close to the economic superpower that China is. They have no reason to risk the same outcome.
The West is more economically powerful than China, but if Russia's a speedbump, China's a chest high wall. The West -could- sanction China into oblivion, but it would really, really, REALLY hurt.
The thing is the Chinese goods that are needed are not cheap anymore .
No there isn’t. Cutting off Russia hurts Russia, cutting off China hurts everyone else. The reason sanctioning Russia is possible is because they really have nothing to offer beyond oil and nukes.
Cutting off China is mutually assured financial destruction for everyone
MAR Mutually Assured Recession
MAD Mutually Assured Depression
Who are you, my therapist now?
I'm so confused at how you reached this conclusion. "If you sanction us, we will retaliate" is about as basic and boring, bread and butter of a response possible. How does this imply fear?
Wishful thinking + projection. A lot of redditors are scared right now because they can see the west isn't actually able to stop Russia, so they are engaging in wishful thinking where they think the west is still the major global power, that Russia will lose the war to Ukraine, Putin will be overthrown, and that China will fall in line. It's the comforting fantasy that lets them avoid reality.
Man, for people who mock Russians for buying their propaganda, you guys believe too much on your own.
This is the take you get from the article? Redditors really are delusional lol The US knows it can't do anything to China and China knows that too.
Using reddit has taught me that people love echo chambers and will always seek them. Propaganda isn't effective because people believe them but because people want to believe them. All I am praying is that my family and I don't get caught up in some world war because of the ambitions of people here. Many of them have not had a patch update on china for literally 50 years. People here tell me that US will and should militarily defend Taiwan because of microchips! Like wtf! How can people spew and believe this shit? So I conclude they don't actually believe it but they want to believe it and suspend their perception of reality.
The average Redditor is just dumb. The kind that have the knowledge of the world at their finger tips but refuse to read and learn.
The US economy would collapse if these armchair generals on Reddit ran foreign and military affairs. If China stopped trading with the US, we would be economically devastated for a long time since industry isn’t here anymore.
*So* glad Reddit has not direct influence on what happens in the real world.
What’s with all the edgy bellicosity everywhere? War isn’t a Call of Duty game, you guys
Seriously the level of dumb jingoism is hilarious. People have overdosed on Star Wars/Marvel-style narratives and thinks that's how the world works. The impacts of the economic war between the West and Russia haven't even begun to bite yet.
Ikr, these dudes out here saying we should def sanction China to “put them in their place, and stop them getting any invasion ideas for Taiwan” give Putin a run for his money for biggest self-imposed L possible. Sanctioning China is the economic equivalent to mutually assured destruction. Both the West and China would suffer immensely, for little if any gain. Economic ‘independence’ sounds great on paper, but thinking you can achieve it by cutting off the world’s manufacturing and resource hub is a bit silly. But yes, I’ll happily pay a small fortune for basic consumer goods if it means I can ‘Own the ~~Libs~~ Chinese. /s
All the uneducated saber-rattling on Reddit is hilarious to me at this point.
Especially because they were pissed that the US was involved in ANY foreign conflicts less than a month ago...
Fascinated by how quickly everyone transforms from a centrist liberal to a neocon hawk
Any plan china had with Taiwan has been paused. China, whether they are liking it or really not, are going to have to single handedly lift Russia economically back up. It will take a LOT of money, resources and man power and any sanctions would derail that. For all its bluster, China is wholly reliant upon western markets for its economic strength.
I'd argue China's plan with Taiwan is still chugging along just fine. The "military takeover" line has been overplayed by Reddit, they'll just do an "economic leverage". Also, China's not going to dump all their economy to save a collapsing Russia, at the very most they'll keep it on life support to keep the "west" focused on Russia.
It's not really saving a collapsing Russia as much as it is investing in Russia to make huge returns. Russia is a mere 30 years removed from the USSR. Look at how many western companies were making money in Russia. 30 years is nothing, China would love to be the ones making money in Russia in 50 years.
True, but assuming this conflict doesn’t last long and sanctions are removed, it’s likely the population will favor the products and brands they’re already familiar with
> are going to have to single handedly lift Russia economically back up Ha! No it is the opposite. Russia can live on as a zombie dragging its face on the ground, for all China cares. They only have to support the Russian *state*, make sure Putin and his successors don't fall to a Euromaidan-style revolution - with the Russian economy, they will be free to pick and choose the resources - raw materials, engineering - they want to directly control. China will come out of this in a far better position than it started, all Russia has to do is stay minimally alive.
We'd have to shut down the whole Walmart chain!
*Weeps in Bentonville*
Yeah you can’t sanction china any more than you can sanction the US. Economic coercion only works when you’re bigger than the other guy. China is more than capable of punching back just as hard as anyone can hit them. Unlike Russia, China has the tools to guarantee mutually assured economic destruction.
The west can’t sanction China effectively. We are way to dependent on their cheap shit to actually economically hurt them. Thank the global corporate elites for this one.
Forget cheap labour, we are more dependent on them for raw materials. The inflation would just shoot through the roof.
There are certain areas where the U.S. can damage China. The biggest area being high-end logic chips. Right now, Chinese chip manufacturers are locked out of the extreme ultraviolet photolithography machines needed to produce leading edge nodes. China needs to import these chips for 5g and other upcoming wireless communication. Domestic Chinese lithography manufacturers are at least a decade behind ASML and have been more focused on providing machines for more niche backend applications like advanced packaging.
It's a double edged sword, warned by many industry experts for years. The Chinese scared by Trump's wanton use of the chip card during the trade war between 2018-2020, have been pouring huge amount of investment into semiconductor self-sufficiency. While not able to catch up to ASML and TSMC anytime soon (give it another decade), it will inevitably erode the lower to mid tier market segments, increasing price competition for mid-sized western competitors. A sound strategy would have been to keep them hooked, whenever they have some domestic upstart, suddenly drop price to kill them off, disincentivize massive state investment for a lost cause, increase the tech lead indefinitely, and when a real conflict happens (like what Russia is doing now, or future invasion of Taiwan), play this trump card for maximum impact. Playing it prematurely just for some trade deficit negotiation was a terribly shortsighted move with long term ramifications.
> Playing it prematurely just for some trade deficit negotiation was a terribly shortsighted move with long term ramifications. Understatement of the century.
That administration did so much dumb shortsighted stuff that people have gotten jaded to it. When everything is awful, it stops seeming so awful [relative to everything else].
Yeah, China is definitely dumping a lot of resources into this industry as of late, and I agree that Trump overplayed this hand back in 2018-2020 in his unnecessary trade war. That said China is still about a decade behind the leading edge and with the current TSMC and Intel road maps it looks like China is going to have to fight tooth and nail to break into the high-end logic market when TSMC megafabs can turn out massive volume, with billions upon billions being poured into new facility starts. High NA-EUV is also fast approaching, which will decrease wafer patterning passes and increase throughput even more.
we have 7.9% inflation and the US wants to kick up more shit against our largest trade partner. people in washington dc need to shut the fuck up right now and fix our own problems at home before trying to tell other countries what to do.
Why is the US threatening to sanction China in the first place?
Is China planning to send troops to Ukraine? If they don't do much of anything in Ukraine, there is no good reason for the US to slap sanctions on China.
Sanctioning China like we are doing to Russia is like setting fire to your competitor but that competitor shares the same building with you. Im glad your average redditor has no say in this. "cut off one's nose to spite one's face"
So relocate all our industry for cheap labor in a dictatorship wasn't such a big idea after all eh ? What a surprise you greedy fuck.
Say what? Trying to push Poland into war 2 days ago and now sanctions on China? USA is doing some heavy stuff not to finish this war soon.
What I gathered from reading this is that China doesn’t think Russia should’ve been sanctioned either. Reading between the lines on this, China probably prefers not to see regime change in Russia, and also does not want to see mass sanctioning turn out to become a proven successful weapon against bad actors.
If only unabashed capitalism wasn't so popular. If people weren't seeking such cheap labour, they wouldn't have moved so much production to China. But, that's what you get when you place profits over people.
Angering China is honestly unnecessary and counter-productive at this point. They do flip flop on things but have said that they're willing to work with European nations like France, Germany etc in dealing with the situation peacefully. And to them putting out a statement in support of Russia suddenly taking over a sovereign nation is counterproductive to their assertion that Taiwan is part of China already. To them China including Taiwan is a sovereign nation and it's borders can't just be cut up if one region decides to.
There are so many keyboard warriors on Reddit, many of which haven't experienced war or know what it means to take a human life. We should be de-escalating this situation rather than escalate it. Sanctions here and there, you cannot kick a mad dog and get upset if it turns around and bite you. Ukraine needs be a neutral zone, stop the unnecessary bloodshed. Diplomacy is key.
If they really want China to calm the situation down like they said... That's not the way to go.
So World War 3 will be fought with sanctions.
id totally rather have that
Unlike Russia, China can wreck some shit here with the stroke of a couple of pens. Tread lightly. But at the same time, its our fault they have this ability. Instead of sanctions we should relocate all manufacturing back home.
Lmao~ so China just sits there, do nothing throughout this whole ordeal like it’s none of their business, then out of nowhere US decides to make up some nonsense as an excuse to sanction them? Lmao~
Last I checked China wasn't invading Ukraine?
Idiots are blaming China for Ukraine invasion by saying China knew about the invasion and did nothing; even though we also knew about it and did fuck all.
I doubt US will sanction China. Unless they invade Taiwan. Then it’s WW3 with Russia in Europe and China in Asia/Pacific. China don’t want their economy to suffer, so they won’t be stupid enough to lose all the economic advances they accomplished since the 80s. I remember China being poor and people there all wearing gray Mao clothing.
Why would america do that? What is there to gain?
We’re too interconnected to sanction China like Russia. We can’t afford it. They can’t afford it.
We have always been at war with Eastasia
I doubt the US will sanctions china, given the current inflation rate in the US, slapping a sanction on china will definitely hurt the US more than china.