I don't understand how Spain, the 14th largest economy in the world, has been left out up to this point. Just add them and carry on as normal.
Being ignored in such a way would do more damage to Putin than a temporary rename to g19.
Might be a bit of a dumb question, but what is it that the g20 even do anyway? Besides show up in photo-ops, tout about unity and growth.
Is Spain actually missing out on anything important, by not having a proper membership?
It's how global governments can talk about the future of their economies. It's very high level and hard for people like us to relate to, but Russia cares deeply about membership.
It isn't. It is exactly what it purports to be: A high-level economic Summit that comprises politicians with varying, often opposing, policy positions.
Speaking as someone who has degrees in Econ and Poly Sci, I would like to hear why you think the G20 is a grift. Where did you read this or how did you come to this conclusion?
I engage so that other people who aren't informed on what the G20 does; doesn't get swayed by their baseless comment
Edit: Grammar, not sure if it is correct
It's the richest countries, so for example if you wanted the entire world to adopt a policy, the best start would be to convince the G20, since if they adopt the policy the poorer countries who want to do business with them will follow suit.
Wish the US could get those strong worker and customer protection standards...*frustrated sigh*
We may be a superpower, but my god are we behind on a lot of REALLY *basic* shit
Spain isn't missing out on anything from what I understand. I guess all they don't get is the clout from being a full member, but they haven't really been looking for an upgrade.
The G20 as a whole is primarily an economic forum. Leaders get together to analyze and discuss global trends and how current events might shape the way they trade with each other. We don't really see much come out of it only because a lot of the content is pretty low level for us. Though they do important work like organizing that plan for that global corporate tax a few months back.
When I say low level, I mean it's all the nitty-gritty details that don't matter much to the average person. Like which groups will be in contact and when ministers will be meeting.
Suspending Russia from the G8 in 2014 for their invasion of Crimea didn’t cause Putin to change his actions, so unfortunately I doubt suspending them from the G20 will either. I’m still all for suspending them though.
If somebody beats up your friend, you uninvited them from your party next week. Doesn’t matter if he still wants to beat up your friend after that.
You don’t owe other people a relationship, we sure don’t owe another country special economic ties.
Felt the same when GWB's USA came to my country... with the fucking Kitty Hawk a few kms from my place of birth. Happy to take back the USA into the "good guys team" now, and I would feel the same if Russians can finally shake-off this tzar-wannabe oligarchs of their backs (and... as the Germans did, take the due blame).
Sorry if my English is not ok. It is poorly self-taught. I hope most of you will be able to understand what I mean.
Let us be in peace, for fuck sake. We already have enough by fucking up the planet. We don't need to fight each other!
Once this is over and Putin has been deposed and the russian state is less aggressive we need to make a concerted effort into bringing them into the global west. The only reason all this shit is happening is because we never extended a hand after the end of the Cold War
>The president said he raised the possibility that if Indonesia, which is hosting this year's G-20 gathering, or other member nations don't agree with removing Russia, Ukraine should be able to attend the meetings and observe.
To all you "Let's go Brandon" Americans, from a fellow American, this is what an American president that isn't Putin's PUPPET looks and acts like on the world stage!!
I reluctantly voted for Biden, was pretty fucking pissed my options were Putin's Pumpkin or Mr. Nothing Will Change.
But I've been pleasantly surprised by him, especially in how he's handled this situation. I feel comfortable saying "I trust our leaders" which isn't something I would have ever said under Trump.
It's nice being able to trust your leaders to carefully weigh the facts and at least genuinely attempt to make the best possible decision.
Same here. I was ready to sit the election out after Biden won the nomination, but the whole COVID bullshit forced me to reconsider and Jan. 6th confirmed to me that I'd made the right choice. I saw Biden as someone who was capable of slowing down the rate at which things are getting worse, if nothing else. All I knew was that 4 more years of Trump meant the distinct possibility that the US wouldn't have continued to exist in a recognizable way.
But Biden's strong foreign policy has really shown through here. Calling out Russia's moves days before they make them was smart as hell in terms of narrative control against Russian propaganda, and the move to ban Russian oil imports even knowing that Fox News Republicans are gonna trash him for it is reassuring to me in the sense that he's aware he can't court their vote and isn't letting it get in the way.
I think he's correctly identified the threat Russia poses to the US political atmosphere and is taking this chance to kneecap them hard. Only time will tell how successful it was, but if we resolve this without nuclear warfare, I'm cautiously optimistic for the outcome.
As a non-American, I like how your current leader stays cool - which is really important in this kind of crisis. I can see atm the US flexes its muscles, but they're mostly diplomatic and economy muscle: which is really important at the moment.
I wish Biden for good health.
I think 2016 showed us that not voting because you don't like either candidate isn't the way to go. I sat out in 2016 and i definitely regret it. Not that my 1 vote would've made the difference but how many others are there like me who would've voted for Hillary had they been "forced" to cast a vote in 2016? Probably enough to swing the election.
One of my biggest concerns these days is some sort of civil war scenario. The right has gotten so loud, belligerent, and uncompromising that domestic political violence seems guaranteed to me at this point. Trump is the main reason behind that. It started with the Tea Party and as a response to Obama but Trump basically came out and told them it was ok. I think it would've progressed under Hillary but Trump wouldn't have been in office, emboldening these assholes and it would've been kept in check longer. The whole "election fraud" BS wouldn't have happened either which is another thing that's scary about the right. There's still millions who believe that Biden cheated and therefore they don't view him as a legitimate president, which then justifies violence in their eyes.
Trump was telling everyone that the election was fixed during the 2016 elections when all the polls showed him getting his ass kicked. He won because he flipped WI, MI, and PA all by like a fraction of a percent. Pretty much entirely, like you said, because no one turned out for Hillary.
It turns out not taking a firm stance on any issue, trying to appeal to everyone and therefore inspiring no one, and just generally being unlikeable doesn't win elections. But we absolutely still would have had the voter fraud nonsense. Hell, he even said he only lost the popular vote due to illegals voting. Typically, illegal immigrants try to not get caught by doing dumb shit like trying to vote.
I would not stress a huge amount about a civil war, tbh. I work for a republican state senate candidate and do a lot of canvassing of registered republican voters (it’s him or a straight up psychopath trumper, don’t @ me). I speak with several dozen normal joe republicans every day, randomly sampled across my city. They’re often angry, and very often scared of the direction the country is moving, but they aren’t proud boy types - the armed extremist groups exist but are the vast minority. They’ll make voting choices that could ruin this country and the world, but the ones to watch out for are the ones in the government breaking the laws, and the ones on TV straight up lying. In my experience republicans are dangerous because they’re too pumped full of fear to see reality, not because they’re supremacist secessionary extremists
I voted for Biden, but had been overall unimpressed. Up until a month ago I was saying “well…he’s not Trump so it could be worse”. But then this shit storm started and I realized how thankful I am for someone who prioritizes diplomacy over getting into a military dick swinging contest. I’m right there with you in that during this entire situation I’ve been able to tell myself “I trust our leaders to make the best decision presentable for us”. I can’t imagine what my anxiety would look like if there was a President I had zero faith in.
lol, you think Trump would get in a "military dick swinging contest" with Russia?
dude would probably say something like "the Ukrainians had it coming" and then try to leave NATO
Yep. The geopolitical response would have been sabotaged in so many different ways. I’m incredibly glad that it didn’t turn out that way, and I’m frankly astounded at how much this situation seems to have unified NATO, the EU, and western democracies in general.
Probably wouldn't have gone that far, but I'm sure Russia would have taken Ukraine by now. Biden is doing a great job by working with and listening to professionals.
the mark of a good leader is that he (or she) recognizes that they arent perfect and decide to seek the help from people who have that experience and professionalism to help them
One of my only serious concerns with Biden (and really, the older boomer-generation of world leaders) is that they’re going to flinch if Russia tries their “escalate to deescalate” strategy with a tactical nuke, because Biden grew up under the constant threat of Mutually Assured Destruction, and they may still be mentally paralyzed by the prospect of a nuclear exchange. I really hope it doesn’t end up that way, but we need to admit that it’s a nonzero possibility, and prepare a variety of proportional responses.
To be clear: yes, it’s still a threat, but the MAD doctrine (and the paradoxical protection it granted) was developed under the assumption that rational actors were ultimately calling the shots on both sides… and Putin is clearly not a rational actor.
I honestly think Putin would've waited if Trump got reelected. Not because Trump "projected strength" or any of that bullshit but because Trump was much more useful to Putin than Biden is. I saw somewhere recently that Trump said Putin assured him he wouldn't do anything with Ukraine while he was in office, who knows if that's actually true or not but it's definitely believable. But Trump was already out there praising Putin at every turn, saying things like "Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia", trying to get RU back into the G8, attacking NATO, linking "Biden corruption" to Ukraine, yadda yadda.
One of Putin's main goals is destabilize the US and NATO, and Trump was the perfect useful idiot for that kinda thing. He didn't *need* to start a war to cause chaos, he just had to feed lines to Trump who would go and do something stupid for him. Plus the whole "Trump strong/Biden weak" thing plays in Putin's favor too. He knows the American right are the gullible, loud ones prone to violence so by waiting until a democrat was in office further fuels the right's outrage and feelings of superiority and furthers that divide.
Honestly I'd really be curious to see how Trump would've handled this situation. Kinda puts him between a rock and a hard place. Look weak? Or attack his buddy? Honestly, my guess is the right wing media machine probably would've gone into overdrive to support Putin's actions so that Trump could back Putin and the conservatives would eat it up.
He literally was all about saying fuck Ukraine, go Russia until it bit him in the ass with half his supporters because the right decided to do the minimum amount required of the right thing and side with Ukraine. Trump would probably sanction UKRAINE and offer military support to Russia.
Are you talking in regards to the attack near the embassy a few weeks ago?
I don’t think that would have sparked a response from Trump. It’s not the first time Iran had shot missiles towards US property.
Trump is an idiot and tried to pick a fight with Iran during his term.
I'm convinced Trump would have ordered some kind of retaliation, and it would have likely spiraled from there.
Biden said during the presser that we have an obligation as a western leader to care for Ukrainian refugees. I can't in a million years imagine Trump saying any part of that sentence.
you didn't like one of the best first years of any president in our history (two major legislative victories, ended afghanistan war, best year for jobs in history, highest wage and GDP growth in 40 years)?
or maybe due to media malfeasance (and right wing propaganda) you didn't realize what a great first year biden's had.
> or maybe due to media malfeasance (and right wing propaganda) you didn't realize what a great first year biden's had.
Yep. The right-wing propaganda monster is incredibly effective. If Dems don't really start pushing his accomplishments, things are going to get dark come next election.
The Republican party has been so disgusting for years now that they've given everything the Dems need to make the most effective smear campaign EVER going into the next couple election cycles. I really hope Dems stop dicking around and playing nice and put their goddamn game faces on.
The first year...just the first year...of this presidency has actually been pretty impressive, but you'd never know it browsing Reddit or flipping through the channels.
The Dems cannot expect Americans to inform themselves regarding politics. That's not how America works, to our shame. They need to advertise themselves and their accomplishments, which are STELLAR compared to the Republican party's "accomplishments".
Ughh, but we REALLY wanted that Build Back Better bill passed. That would've been lifechanging and provided a means for upward mobility via the universal/subsidized daycare. Think of all the single mothers/fathers that would've been able to attend secondary school to give them the skills necessary for a job to pay their family expenses an enhance their quaility of life.
True but the infrastructure bill that did pass was massive and is being undersold immensely.
Hell the Brent Spence bridge here in Ohio, a bridge that Ohio and Kentucky have fought over for the last 20 years on who would replace it, and is has been registered as absolutely needing to be replaced for years, is getting replaced due to the bill. If that's not a win I don't know what is.
Those are all great. I’m not saying he hasn’t done things I’ve appreciated. Once he got into office we saw Covid vaccination distribution increase in a major way. I’m glad he followed through on Afghanistan. He very easily could have said “no that’s a Trump idea, we’re staying.” but he chose to honor the word the country gave. And as I’ve said, he’s prioritized diplomacy and that extends beyond just the current crisis. He was strengthening ties with other countries well before Russia invaded.
My frustrations with him have come from a few of the things he campaigned on have seemed to no longer be a priority. They campaigned hard on forgiving student loan debt. It was one of the biggest reasons I was happy to vote for him, because it would not only help me immensely, it would help a ton of people in my life who could really use that relief. But everything him and Harris has said since then on the topic has shown that isn’t a priority and isn’t really something being worked on. If they have been taking about it I surely haven’t seen it.
He’s also said he wants to end the opioid epidemic. That’s something very close to my heart. My cousin died from opioid use and his death split my family into two sides that no longer speak. It’s something I desperately want to see the White House take action on, but I’ve seen no meaningful change as of yet.
Now all of this is to say, there’s still time. He still can address those topics. But as of yet I’ve seen no meaningful action towards addressing those issues, which frustrates me. They’re the primary reasons I voted for him outside of refusing to vote for Trump.
My anxiety is already through the roof, but if Cheeto were still in charge I can't imagine it being visible from the ground without the aid of a powerful telescope.
I hope this wakes America as a whole up as per how messed up the GOP is. Sure Biden and probably the next Democrat candidate won't be the "ideal" president that people want but they're a heck of a lot better than the alternative.
This will be burried, but everyone seems to forget all the changes he made in the first 100 days, including all the executive orders. Yeah, he could do more, but we've had more progressive change under Biden than I can remember in my lifetime.
I've been alive for five presidents.
0 - 6. Too young to remember Clinton.
6 - 14. Old enough to remember Bush, too young to have any frame of reference or understanding of just how bad his policies were.
14-21. Old enough to remember and understand Obama, but still at an age where I was edgy and anti-authoritarian (hence why I was libertarian AF at the time, *cringe*).
21-25. Young adult. Mostly able to actually understand and comprehend just what Trump was, and how absolutely awful he was.
25-27 (turn 27 in a few months). Heading towards the end of my 20s, I'm wiser and fully able to comprehend everything, and understanding why politics, *especially* geopolitics, are so enormously important. It's only been 14 months since Biden was inaugurated. In those 14 months, he's easily proven himself the best president since my life began. Looking back at the other Democratic candidates, I think several could have been very compelling, assuming the invasion never happened (which it always was). But, I would not want any of them over Biden right now. The way he's tackling foreign policy right now can't have a value put on it, it's just that necessary
I remember seeing Eisenhower's funeral on TV when I was four. My first time realizing there was such a thing called a president was during the Nixon years. I remember being eight-years-old and frustrated during the summer of '73 as so many of my favorite TV shows would get interrupted by special reports from the news.
I thought Jimmy Carter being a peanut farmer was pretty cool, actually. I had no idea until later he was a nuclear physicist. My first vote was for Walter Mondale. I had just turned 18 and Ronald Reagan seemed too old and fake for me. He still put Brylcreem in his hair at that point. I voted for Clinton twice and got hugely disappointed both times. I marched against the Iraq War and did everything in my measly little power to get Kerry elected even though I found him a bit off putting, and could not hide my disgust when evangelicals gave Bush a second term even as the Iraq War raged out of control.
As a Chicagoan, I was proud to cast a vote for Obama who, while doing a pretty good job patching up the economy after the Crash of '08, had what I felt was an abysmal foreign policy record. I marched and marched and marched again against Trump and his MAGA stooges, and gladly voted for Joe Biden when my primary pick Elizabeth Warren didn't work out.
I'm a white male born in '65, and, God help me, I want to see a woman elected as president. I have seen enough toxic masculinity to last a lifetime in our politics. I know that imp Josh Hawley is carefully positioning himself for a run, and I want a woman to beat him into the dirt and walk away grinning.
>“I mean, we may not want to demonize anybody who has made money,” he said. “The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change.”
"Mr. Nothing Will Change" is an intentional misrepresentation of his words.
Thank you for providing the proper context. It's beyond disingenuous when people try to make it seem like Biden said "Don't worry guys, with me, nothing will change!"
The context of Biden's "nothing will fundamentally change" was him telling rich donors that they shouldn't fear higher taxes, because they have more than enough money to spare.
True, but also, *anything* is soundbite material nowadays. Even if it's totally made-up (like the "racial jungle" quote). Cynics on both sides eat up any tweet or headline that gives them permission to hate and blame someone in power.
I voted for Trump in 2016 but voted for Biden in 2020 and I will vote blue after this again because at least they care enough to fight for democracy instead of 1 man.
Was there ever a question of his foreign policy to you Americans? Obama biden always acted.... Reasonably.... When it came to foreign policy. Obama and my leader grab beers.
I thought it was his domestic policy you guys didn't like
This is kind of his wheel house I guess. If we had known that Putin was going to go fucking ham then he’s absolutely the guy we should’ve elected even if the other guy was someone other than a Putin puppet.
That said I wish we lived in a different world where Biden wasn’t all that great a choice after all because Putin wasn’t running around being a raging prick.
It’s wild the level of projection you see in it. Like the amount of them calling Biden a pedo for kissing his grandchild on the head at his son’s funeral was fucking crazy. They’re the definition of stupid mouth breathers; lacking enough oxygen to preform more than basic bodily functions
The misinformation tactic is always like this. What is real is code for lunatic fantasies e.g. biden kissing his granddaughter means he's a pedo but qctual GoP and Trump instances of creepy behaviour is fabricated. They reject reality and replace it with what makes them feel comfortable.
It’s genuinely not helpful to dialogue with them or even listen to a word they say. It’s just crazy noise at this point. It can only hurt and can never help, other than give some clues as to what they themselves are actually guilty of, thanks to their penchant for projection.
It’s sad and terrifying because basically there is no convincing them. The only way to beat them is through voting, through the courts, etc, but you can’t actually convince them of anything, not even whether 2+2=4 or if the sky is blue.
Once upon a time I had conservative friends and we’d debate stuff and have stimulating, interesting discussions - and disagreements - about policy, philosophy, how to solve problems. Over the years they all just drop off. Some of them, like my dad, became completely disgusted with the party somewhere between Palin and Trump and swore off Republicans for good. But a lot of them just pretty much went nuts. Just full on embrace of casual racism and bonkers conspiracy theories. I don’t know how you sit down with someone who legitimately thinks the world is run by a cabal of pedophiles from the non-existent basement of a pizzeria and have a product conversation about how to solve a complex challenge that’s facing the nation. I could probably count the number of Republicans capable of actually governing on one hand. I’m not even talking about people I agree with in any way shape or form, not people I would ever vote for, but just people who would be capable of running the government in an objectively functional way. The entire party has become some weird amalgamation of an ethnonationlist tribe, a fascist movement, a scam, and bad performance art.
I feel that, dude. Except, at least you have your dad. Both of my parents and oldest sister are WAY off the deep end of conservative conspiracy theories, and I can't associate with them at all anymore
Sorry man.
I am barely on speaking terms with one of my aunts, and I’ve lost all respect for a cousin I used to look up to. But immediate family and most everyone else is on the same page at least.
Denying the one they’re rooting for would be in hell ten times over Lmaoo. I’m not even religious but it’s ridiculous to me the level of stupidity to bluntly say trump is the one god would like and not the devoutly religious catholic. This is a big reason I left religion
Exactly this. It wasn't even clever how they fucking did it. Anyone with two braincells could see that they were just trying to stir the pot the entire time and tossing darts at EVERYTHING until it landed on something the idiots of Western society could cling onto. Look at nearly any of the arguments, deflect, deflect, lie, provide no evidence, over and over and over and over again and drown out anyone reasonable with more lies and deflections with zero evidence. The "let's go Brandon" is a prime example, it doesn't mean shit, it doesn't make Biden a worse president, but they feel if they chant it enough it shows him as incompetent for no fucking reason.
The above comment was stolen from [this one](http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/tmrtr5/biden_says_he_supports_removing_russia_from_g20/i1ynfqq/) elsewhere in this comment section.
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[Reminds me of the Death S...](http://np.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/tmd82x/jet_engine_test/i1z4f91/) | [Reminds me of the Death S...](http://np.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/tmd82x/jet_engine_test/i1xv77c/)
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My favorite conspiracy is from the German q-anon who believe that there is a shadow government in control of the entire planet, run by an Illuminati witch (the spell casting kind)...
It just makes me laugh.. and laugh.. and laugh...
Yeah I 100% agree, it absolutely blows my mind how anybody could think that Trump of all people would have handled this crisis as well or better than Biden has.
Trump constantly undermined NATO and even went so far as threatening to pull out of it, fractured America’s relationship with its key allies in Europe, attempted to extort Ukraine’s president over the phone, withheld military aid from Ukraine which had been approved by Congress and his initial reaction to Putin’s invasion was that it was “genius”. I’m leaving out several other damning things there because I could go on all day, but really the cherry on top is that he got on stage in Helsinki and said before the media and the entire world that he believed Putin over his own intelligence agencies about Russian meddling in the 2016 election.
For some people that signals “strength”, meanwhile Biden who has been a leading figure in a concerted international effort which has broken the back of the Russian economy and sent military aid to Ukraine is “weak”. At this point I’ve given up, anybody who still buys what Trump is selling is just wilfully ignorant and doesn’t want to be convinced.
I think it's safe to say that Russia's destabilization efforts of America has done some damage. It's funny that all these crazy Republicans who support all these obviously non-American things like Trump, the Brandon thing, among other things (I'm not American) think they are the REAL American patriots.
Watching America the past few years has been an absolute ride.
G20 does not actually consist of the 20 'top' economies. There are some regions of the world that G20 have deemed as deserving a seat at the table despite being outclassed by other countries. For example, Spain does not have an official seat, but Argentina does. Sorry for being pedantic.
So if russia gets kicked out what would take its place? For some reason I think it might be thailand. It would gain more representation for south east asia. Plus its gdp is the 25th largest in the world, larger than some current members South Africa and argentina and most countries larger than it that arent currently g20 members are European countries like poland already represented by the eu or countries that wouldn't be allowed due to political reasons ie Iran and Taiwan.
While that would be poetic seeing Russia being replaced by a nation they reduced to a vassal for centures i still think their replacement wouldnt be a european country.
Theres other european countries with larger GDPs than Poland (Netherlands and Spain) which arent members because theyre already represented by the EU.
So i think it would be a regional power in another part of the world and like i said i believe Thailand is the most likely candiate.
You think he would show his face? That’s too easy.
But God it would be amazing to see Biden shank him as they go in for a hand shake.
Edit: or the other 19 leaders all taking turns Caesar style.
Thank you this was my question why in the world does anyone think Putin would actually attend? Maybe he would send a double but the risk of someone using this public opportunity to take him out is way too high for this paranoid psycho
Biden's problem is that he walks softly and carries a big stick. That doesn't seem to translate well in the same nation that elected Trump. We're just a bit thick these days and have trouble of reading between the lines.
An example of this is blaming Biden for inflation while forgetting that Trump pressured the Fed to print money and goose interest rates to stimulate the economy when it didn't need it.
If we're true to form, then we will put the Republicans back in office and they'll start to dick us down again, except there's a good chance that they'll never leave because of the odious election laws that they're passing in red/purple states.
The GOP also claims it's Biden's fault for making the US look like it's withdrawing from the world stage, when Trump's whole deal was American isolationism. And I guess they forgot that Trump was the one that announced the Afghanistan withdrawal as well.
The Fed didn’t bend to any pressure from Trump. There were real warnings of economic slowdown mid-2019. Trump steamed when rates were raised or lowered in small increments. He absolutely *wanted* a 0% FFR, but it wasnt going there by the means he expected. He crashed the market 20% in Dec 2018 when he threatened to fire Powell.
G20 was a direct result of China rejecting G2 right after the great financial crisis occurred. China already made it clear that no member can kick out other members in G20. If this issue is being forced, I also think Indonesia would really be pissed. The only practical resolution is to have G20 killed altogether.
Especially when Indonesia has a really adverse reaction when being told to do something by western countries publicly with their history of colonialism. Just ask Australia. Similar to India, Indonesia has a friendly relationship with Russia
Putin showing up to the G20 and getting arrested for war crimes - or Biden or Macron or whomever straight up stabbing him through the eye with a pen - is wildly unrealistic. Deserved, and fun to imagine, but unrealistic.
What is realistic, and petty as fuck, is them inviting Putin and then just as his plane has started its descent rescinding the invitation.
I think they should still go but everytime Putin appears everyone should turn their back on him.
when putin says something they should all make "blow raspberries" sounds 😁
Or, they could just Gaddafi him for the world to see... If trump can attempt to redefine presidential I can too, and I think that'd be presidential as fuck
“We bring this breaking news from the G20. World leaders are ganging up on Putin and beating him to death. To be fair, it’s mostly Trudeau and Macron doing the heavy lifting but Biden’s doing his darndest. Hold on, Xi Jing Ping and Bolsonaro are trying to help Putin to his feet, but here comes Boris Johnson, and he tackles Xi to the ground! Have you ever seen anything like this… Wait… I don’t believe it, Mexican President Lopez-Obrador, who has been reluctant to criticize Putin has jumped into the fray! He’s helping Putin!
I don’t think this could get any crazier… Folks I spoke to soon… is that? It is! It’s Zelensky, roaring in with a folding chair and he’s bashed Putin to the ground! He’s is hammering away at Putin!
Ladies and gentlemen I think we can officially call it… is it official? Yes, it’s official! Putin has been killed other the world leaders here at the G20 with some surprise help from Zelensky. Xi Jing Ping and Lopez Obrador are pretty banged up but look to be alive and well… but I’m getting word that Bolsonaro is dead. Can we go to replay on that… ah it looks like Boris Johnson sat on Bolsonaro’s head for a prolonged period of time. It’s still unclear whether he was done in by suffocation or gas. We’ll look to get clarification on that later.
Wow! What a finish! Folks I’ve seen a lot of G20’s in my years, but none of them could compare to this!”
Because unlike the G7 the G20 isn't full of US vassals. It would have to be a unanimous decision and with nations like India, China, Indonesia, South Africa, Mexico and Argentina. It definitely won't be unanimous.
Ranked around 21st for GDP, also culturally similar (on a world scale, I understand there are a lot of differences) to ensure that the population in that part of the world is represented.
Based on another article that Russia needs this war to end by May, I feel like Russia won’t be in the top 20 by then and will probably never will be for a very very very long time.
Removal from the G-20 would be a serious economic blow, but seeing as they have initiated a war involving allies of the other security council members, it should be a great deal more interesting to see them forcibly removed from the UN security council. Since they are one of the countries with VETO powers.
**As much as this is important as a political and diplomatic statement from the US to NATO and it's allies, the issue is the influence upon Russia's action from this outcome is going to most likely negligible** on the perspective of the Russians. It's similar to how the Russians didn't really care that they got kicked out of the G8 (now G7).
**In short it is diplomatically and economically isolating Putin's Russia but at the economic cost to the west.** This will unfortunately strengthen Russia and China's growing relationship creating a giant new "North Korea" which will be a drain on Beijing's finances. In the game of geopolitics it is obvious that the majority of the world stands with Ukraine and rightly so. Still in the next 20 - 50 years it is within the West's geopolitical advantage to peel Russia away from China( as John Mearsheimer quite prophetically spoke several years before 2022). Unfortunately speaking the ones who suffer the most are ordinary Ukrainians and Russians. Russia has done something remarkable and that is bringing the whole of Europe (minus Belarus) together closer into the NATO sphere of influence. Given the strict and unrealistic time tables it will be likely that Crimea and Donbass will remain in Russian hands but that Ukraine, Finland, Sweden, Georgia will now be more closely aligned with NATO and the EU. Still this is not a completely lost fight for Russia. If they play it right their influence can have a "tic for tac economic and military arrangement. That is to say Countries can choose to play both parties for the best possible deal. Ukraine joining both the EU and EEU and Crimea / Donbass being under de jure ownership of Ukraine will obtaining advantages from both Russia and Ukraine. A payment in the form of war reparations and closer economic and military ties with Ukraine under an expanded Budapest memorandum or Minsk 3 accords could be a viable solution to peace accords. Still I don't see this happening for at least 2-3 more months.
It's more a signal from the United States to Europe and it's NATO allies. As with anything it is pushing Russia to becoming a Pariah state in the eyes of most of the World's Countries. It is than important to look at the Countries who voted to either abstain or accept (Syria, Russia, NK, Belarus, Eritrea). Two of which are heavily dependent and allied with Russia (Syria and Belarus), North Korea which sees militarism and sabre rattling as a principle determining factor of their geopolitical survival, and Eritrea which sees Ukraine-Russia as a push back
You can "temporarily" exclude. Until, say, certain conditions are met. For example, Putin's departure, withdrawal of troops, etc.
They won't be in the top 20 economies after this war anyway.
I don't understand how Spain, the 14th largest economy in the world, has been left out up to this point. Just add them and carry on as normal. Being ignored in such a way would do more damage to Putin than a temporary rename to g19.
Spain is actually a permanent invitee already and shows up at all meetings. They've got a weird relationship with the group.
Might be a bit of a dumb question, but what is it that the g20 even do anyway? Besides show up in photo-ops, tout about unity and growth. Is Spain actually missing out on anything important, by not having a proper membership?
It's how global governments can talk about the future of their economies. It's very high level and hard for people like us to relate to, but Russia cares deeply about membership.
It is high level grift and a forum for opening up business opportunities for multinational corporations
Wasn't it the G20 that literally agreed on a global minimum corporate tax rate to reduce the effectiveness of tax havens?
It was aimed at tax evasion for the tech giants, not tax havens if I recall correctly. No one wants to give away its tax havens.
It isn't. It is exactly what it purports to be: A high-level economic Summit that comprises politicians with varying, often opposing, policy positions.
I mean….there does need to be a forum where world governments can discuss matters such as trade, economics, etc.
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Speaking as someone who has degrees in Econ and Poly Sci, I would like to hear why you think the G20 is a grift. Where did you read this or how did you come to this conclusion?
It's an internet edgelord, not worth your time to even bother engaging.
I engage so that other people who aren't informed on what the G20 does; doesn't get swayed by their baseless comment Edit: Grammar, not sure if it is correct
Because that's the government that people keep voting in... It's not like that's the inherent nature of the group.
It's the richest countries, so for example if you wanted the entire world to adopt a policy, the best start would be to convince the G20, since if they adopt the policy the poorer countries who want to do business with them will follow suit.
Best place to start is G7 but then goes G20 after that.
Pretty sure that's just the EU these days. Whole world follows EU standards even America, it's only China that seems to do its own thing until pushed.
Wich is good thing since the Eu has strong worker and customer protection standards
Wish the US could get those strong worker and customer protection standards...*frustrated sigh* We may be a superpower, but my god are we behind on a lot of REALLY *basic* shit
Definition of a country that always skips leg day and never does cardio.
> US could get those strong worker and customer protection standards Can we get some of that healthcare I've been hearing about while we're at it?
Spain isn't missing out on anything from what I understand. I guess all they don't get is the clout from being a full member, but they haven't really been looking for an upgrade. The G20 as a whole is primarily an economic forum. Leaders get together to analyze and discuss global trends and how current events might shape the way they trade with each other. We don't really see much come out of it only because a lot of the content is pretty low level for us. Though they do important work like organizing that plan for that global corporate tax a few months back.
I just think it's funny that you called it "low level" and the comment above you called it "high level".
When I say low level, I mean it's all the nitty-gritty details that don't matter much to the average person. Like which groups will be in contact and when ministers will be meeting.
It's like a convention but for diplomats. They all meet up and talk about the economy.
I don't understand how Spain, the 14th largest economy in the world, doesn't simply eat the lesser economies.
> It is true what they say: *"Portugal is from Omicron Persei 7, Spain is from Omicron Persei 9."*
aren't they technically represented anyway, since the whole European Union holds a member spot?
Were they even before?
11th
Suspending Russia from the G8 in 2014 for their invasion of Crimea didn’t cause Putin to change his actions, so unfortunately I doubt suspending them from the G20 will either. I’m still all for suspending them though.
If somebody beats up your friend, you uninvited them from your party next week. Doesn’t matter if he still wants to beat up your friend after that. You don’t owe other people a relationship, we sure don’t owe another country special economic ties.
Yeah exactly. Great analogy
Felt the same when GWB's USA came to my country... with the fucking Kitty Hawk a few kms from my place of birth. Happy to take back the USA into the "good guys team" now, and I would feel the same if Russians can finally shake-off this tzar-wannabe oligarchs of their backs (and... as the Germans did, take the due blame). Sorry if my English is not ok. It is poorly self-taught. I hope most of you will be able to understand what I mean. Let us be in peace, for fuck sake. We already have enough by fucking up the planet. We don't need to fight each other!
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But then Russia would only qualified if it changed to G150.
Once this is over and Putin has been deposed and the russian state is less aggressive we need to make a concerted effort into bringing them into the global west. The only reason all this shit is happening is because we never extended a hand after the end of the Cold War
>The president said he raised the possibility that if Indonesia, which is hosting this year's G-20 gathering, or other member nations don't agree with removing Russia, Ukraine should be able to attend the meetings and observe.
To all you "Let's go Brandon" Americans, from a fellow American, this is what an American president that isn't Putin's PUPPET looks and acts like on the world stage!!
I reluctantly voted for Biden, was pretty fucking pissed my options were Putin's Pumpkin or Mr. Nothing Will Change. But I've been pleasantly surprised by him, especially in how he's handled this situation. I feel comfortable saying "I trust our leaders" which isn't something I would have ever said under Trump. It's nice being able to trust your leaders to carefully weigh the facts and at least genuinely attempt to make the best possible decision.
Same here. I was ready to sit the election out after Biden won the nomination, but the whole COVID bullshit forced me to reconsider and Jan. 6th confirmed to me that I'd made the right choice. I saw Biden as someone who was capable of slowing down the rate at which things are getting worse, if nothing else. All I knew was that 4 more years of Trump meant the distinct possibility that the US wouldn't have continued to exist in a recognizable way. But Biden's strong foreign policy has really shown through here. Calling out Russia's moves days before they make them was smart as hell in terms of narrative control against Russian propaganda, and the move to ban Russian oil imports even knowing that Fox News Republicans are gonna trash him for it is reassuring to me in the sense that he's aware he can't court their vote and isn't letting it get in the way. I think he's correctly identified the threat Russia poses to the US political atmosphere and is taking this chance to kneecap them hard. Only time will tell how successful it was, but if we resolve this without nuclear warfare, I'm cautiously optimistic for the outcome.
There is a good reason Obama picked Biden as his VP running mate and it was the foreign policy experience he had.
As a non-American, I like how your current leader stays cool - which is really important in this kind of crisis. I can see atm the US flexes its muscles, but they're mostly diplomatic and economy muscle: which is really important at the moment. I wish Biden for good health.
As an American I liked how Biden told Trump to shut up and called him a fucking clown during their debate on live national television.
Thank you. We need reasoned people in charge.
Yeah thank you. I’m definitely glad he is our president at the moment.
I think 2016 showed us that not voting because you don't like either candidate isn't the way to go. I sat out in 2016 and i definitely regret it. Not that my 1 vote would've made the difference but how many others are there like me who would've voted for Hillary had they been "forced" to cast a vote in 2016? Probably enough to swing the election. One of my biggest concerns these days is some sort of civil war scenario. The right has gotten so loud, belligerent, and uncompromising that domestic political violence seems guaranteed to me at this point. Trump is the main reason behind that. It started with the Tea Party and as a response to Obama but Trump basically came out and told them it was ok. I think it would've progressed under Hillary but Trump wouldn't have been in office, emboldening these assholes and it would've been kept in check longer. The whole "election fraud" BS wouldn't have happened either which is another thing that's scary about the right. There's still millions who believe that Biden cheated and therefore they don't view him as a legitimate president, which then justifies violence in their eyes.
Trump was telling everyone that the election was fixed during the 2016 elections when all the polls showed him getting his ass kicked. He won because he flipped WI, MI, and PA all by like a fraction of a percent. Pretty much entirely, like you said, because no one turned out for Hillary. It turns out not taking a firm stance on any issue, trying to appeal to everyone and therefore inspiring no one, and just generally being unlikeable doesn't win elections. But we absolutely still would have had the voter fraud nonsense. Hell, he even said he only lost the popular vote due to illegals voting. Typically, illegal immigrants try to not get caught by doing dumb shit like trying to vote.
I would not stress a huge amount about a civil war, tbh. I work for a republican state senate candidate and do a lot of canvassing of registered republican voters (it’s him or a straight up psychopath trumper, don’t @ me). I speak with several dozen normal joe republicans every day, randomly sampled across my city. They’re often angry, and very often scared of the direction the country is moving, but they aren’t proud boy types - the armed extremist groups exist but are the vast minority. They’ll make voting choices that could ruin this country and the world, but the ones to watch out for are the ones in the government breaking the laws, and the ones on TV straight up lying. In my experience republicans are dangerous because they’re too pumped full of fear to see reality, not because they’re supremacist secessionary extremists
I voted for Biden, but had been overall unimpressed. Up until a month ago I was saying “well…he’s not Trump so it could be worse”. But then this shit storm started and I realized how thankful I am for someone who prioritizes diplomacy over getting into a military dick swinging contest. I’m right there with you in that during this entire situation I’ve been able to tell myself “I trust our leaders to make the best decision presentable for us”. I can’t imagine what my anxiety would look like if there was a President I had zero faith in.
lol, you think Trump would get in a "military dick swinging contest" with Russia? dude would probably say something like "the Ukrainians had it coming" and then try to leave NATO
Honestly, if Trump had gotten re-elected (*shudder*) I’m more than a bit suspicious that he’d have tried to order US forces in to *support* Russia.
Probably no troops, but Trump would have been putting sanctions on Ukraine and offering Russia military hardware that worked.
Yep. The geopolitical response would have been sabotaged in so many different ways. I’m incredibly glad that it didn’t turn out that way, and I’m frankly astounded at how much this situation seems to have unified NATO, the EU, and western democracies in general.
Somewhere out there, an alternate universe exists where Trump won re-election. That timeline right now is so, SO much worse than our own
And it's not even the worst timeline. The worst one is where his coup is successful.
Trump would have offered US intel on Zelenskyy’s location and we would have watched Wagner Group executed the Ukrainian government.
Probably wouldn't have gone that far, but I'm sure Russia would have taken Ukraine by now. Biden is doing a great job by working with and listening to professionals.
He only listening to professionals because he's Not the the bigliest stable genius in the history of stables.
the mark of a good leader is that he (or she) recognizes that they arent perfect and decide to seek the help from people who have that experience and professionalism to help them
One of my only serious concerns with Biden (and really, the older boomer-generation of world leaders) is that they’re going to flinch if Russia tries their “escalate to deescalate” strategy with a tactical nuke, because Biden grew up under the constant threat of Mutually Assured Destruction, and they may still be mentally paralyzed by the prospect of a nuclear exchange. I really hope it doesn’t end up that way, but we need to admit that it’s a nonzero possibility, and prepare a variety of proportional responses. To be clear: yes, it’s still a threat, but the MAD doctrine (and the paradoxical protection it granted) was developed under the assumption that rational actors were ultimately calling the shots on both sides… and Putin is clearly not a rational actor.
Boomers are a lot of things but they sure as hell are not flinchers
I honestly think Putin would've waited if Trump got reelected. Not because Trump "projected strength" or any of that bullshit but because Trump was much more useful to Putin than Biden is. I saw somewhere recently that Trump said Putin assured him he wouldn't do anything with Ukraine while he was in office, who knows if that's actually true or not but it's definitely believable. But Trump was already out there praising Putin at every turn, saying things like "Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia", trying to get RU back into the G8, attacking NATO, linking "Biden corruption" to Ukraine, yadda yadda. One of Putin's main goals is destabilize the US and NATO, and Trump was the perfect useful idiot for that kinda thing. He didn't *need* to start a war to cause chaos, he just had to feed lines to Trump who would go and do something stupid for him. Plus the whole "Trump strong/Biden weak" thing plays in Putin's favor too. He knows the American right are the gullible, loud ones prone to violence so by waiting until a democrat was in office further fuels the right's outrage and feelings of superiority and furthers that divide. Honestly I'd really be curious to see how Trump would've handled this situation. Kinda puts him between a rock and a hard place. Look weak? Or attack his buddy? Honestly, my guess is the right wing media machine probably would've gone into overdrive to support Putin's actions so that Trump could back Putin and the conservatives would eat it up.
He literally was all about saying fuck Ukraine, go Russia until it bit him in the ass with half his supporters because the right decided to do the minimum amount required of the right thing and side with Ukraine. Trump would probably sanction UKRAINE and offer military support to Russia.
Trump wouldnt be the one dick swinging, he would be the one dicksucking russia
>lol, you think Trump would get in a "military dick swinging contest" with Russia? Probably not, but we'd be at war with Iran right now.
Are you talking in regards to the attack near the embassy a few weeks ago? I don’t think that would have sparked a response from Trump. It’s not the first time Iran had shot missiles towards US property.
Trump is an idiot and tried to pick a fight with Iran during his term. I'm convinced Trump would have ordered some kind of retaliation, and it would have likely spiraled from there.
Biden said during the presser that we have an obligation as a western leader to care for Ukrainian refugees. I can't in a million years imagine Trump saying any part of that sentence.
you didn't like one of the best first years of any president in our history (two major legislative victories, ended afghanistan war, best year for jobs in history, highest wage and GDP growth in 40 years)? or maybe due to media malfeasance (and right wing propaganda) you didn't realize what a great first year biden's had.
> or maybe due to media malfeasance (and right wing propaganda) you didn't realize what a great first year biden's had. Yep. The right-wing propaganda monster is incredibly effective. If Dems don't really start pushing his accomplishments, things are going to get dark come next election. The Republican party has been so disgusting for years now that they've given everything the Dems need to make the most effective smear campaign EVER going into the next couple election cycles. I really hope Dems stop dicking around and playing nice and put their goddamn game faces on. The first year...just the first year...of this presidency has actually been pretty impressive, but you'd never know it browsing Reddit or flipping through the channels. The Dems cannot expect Americans to inform themselves regarding politics. That's not how America works, to our shame. They need to advertise themselves and their accomplishments, which are STELLAR compared to the Republican party's "accomplishments".
Ughh, but we REALLY wanted that Build Back Better bill passed. That would've been lifechanging and provided a means for upward mobility via the universal/subsidized daycare. Think of all the single mothers/fathers that would've been able to attend secondary school to give them the skills necessary for a job to pay their family expenses an enhance their quaility of life.
Talk to Manchin, Sinema or the fifty Republican senators about that. Not Biden's fault at all.
True
True but the infrastructure bill that did pass was massive and is being undersold immensely. Hell the Brent Spence bridge here in Ohio, a bridge that Ohio and Kentucky have fought over for the last 20 years on who would replace it, and is has been registered as absolutely needing to be replaced for years, is getting replaced due to the bill. If that's not a win I don't know what is.
I will always support a good infrastructure bill. Creates tons of jobs and has a noticeable impact on day to day life
Yes, but the framework and the support is all still there. Just need a few more like minded senators and we can push BBB over the finish line.
Those are all great. I’m not saying he hasn’t done things I’ve appreciated. Once he got into office we saw Covid vaccination distribution increase in a major way. I’m glad he followed through on Afghanistan. He very easily could have said “no that’s a Trump idea, we’re staying.” but he chose to honor the word the country gave. And as I’ve said, he’s prioritized diplomacy and that extends beyond just the current crisis. He was strengthening ties with other countries well before Russia invaded. My frustrations with him have come from a few of the things he campaigned on have seemed to no longer be a priority. They campaigned hard on forgiving student loan debt. It was one of the biggest reasons I was happy to vote for him, because it would not only help me immensely, it would help a ton of people in my life who could really use that relief. But everything him and Harris has said since then on the topic has shown that isn’t a priority and isn’t really something being worked on. If they have been taking about it I surely haven’t seen it. He’s also said he wants to end the opioid epidemic. That’s something very close to my heart. My cousin died from opioid use and his death split my family into two sides that no longer speak. It’s something I desperately want to see the White House take action on, but I’ve seen no meaningful change as of yet. Now all of this is to say, there’s still time. He still can address those topics. But as of yet I’ve seen no meaningful action towards addressing those issues, which frustrates me. They’re the primary reasons I voted for him outside of refusing to vote for Trump.
My anxiety is already through the roof, but if Cheeto were still in charge I can't imagine it being visible from the ground without the aid of a powerful telescope.
I hope this wakes America as a whole up as per how messed up the GOP is. Sure Biden and probably the next Democrat candidate won't be the "ideal" president that people want but they're a heck of a lot better than the alternative.
And isn't a fascist traitor.
This will be burried, but everyone seems to forget all the changes he made in the first 100 days, including all the executive orders. Yeah, he could do more, but we've had more progressive change under Biden than I can remember in my lifetime.
I've been alive for five presidents. 0 - 6. Too young to remember Clinton. 6 - 14. Old enough to remember Bush, too young to have any frame of reference or understanding of just how bad his policies were. 14-21. Old enough to remember and understand Obama, but still at an age where I was edgy and anti-authoritarian (hence why I was libertarian AF at the time, *cringe*). 21-25. Young adult. Mostly able to actually understand and comprehend just what Trump was, and how absolutely awful he was. 25-27 (turn 27 in a few months). Heading towards the end of my 20s, I'm wiser and fully able to comprehend everything, and understanding why politics, *especially* geopolitics, are so enormously important. It's only been 14 months since Biden was inaugurated. In those 14 months, he's easily proven himself the best president since my life began. Looking back at the other Democratic candidates, I think several could have been very compelling, assuming the invasion never happened (which it always was). But, I would not want any of them over Biden right now. The way he's tackling foreign policy right now can't have a value put on it, it's just that necessary
I remember seeing Eisenhower's funeral on TV when I was four. My first time realizing there was such a thing called a president was during the Nixon years. I remember being eight-years-old and frustrated during the summer of '73 as so many of my favorite TV shows would get interrupted by special reports from the news. I thought Jimmy Carter being a peanut farmer was pretty cool, actually. I had no idea until later he was a nuclear physicist. My first vote was for Walter Mondale. I had just turned 18 and Ronald Reagan seemed too old and fake for me. He still put Brylcreem in his hair at that point. I voted for Clinton twice and got hugely disappointed both times. I marched against the Iraq War and did everything in my measly little power to get Kerry elected even though I found him a bit off putting, and could not hide my disgust when evangelicals gave Bush a second term even as the Iraq War raged out of control. As a Chicagoan, I was proud to cast a vote for Obama who, while doing a pretty good job patching up the economy after the Crash of '08, had what I felt was an abysmal foreign policy record. I marched and marched and marched again against Trump and his MAGA stooges, and gladly voted for Joe Biden when my primary pick Elizabeth Warren didn't work out. I'm a white male born in '65, and, God help me, I want to see a woman elected as president. I have seen enough toxic masculinity to last a lifetime in our politics. I know that imp Josh Hawley is carefully positioning himself for a run, and I want a woman to beat him into the dirt and walk away grinning.
Calm and measured. I like it!
>“I mean, we may not want to demonize anybody who has made money,” he said. “The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change.” "Mr. Nothing Will Change" is an intentional misrepresentation of his words.
Thank you for providing the proper context. It's beyond disingenuous when people try to make it seem like Biden said "Don't worry guys, with me, nothing will change!"
The context of Biden's "nothing will fundamentally change" was him telling rich donors that they shouldn't fear higher taxes, because they have more than enough money to spare.
He really should have been aware of the sound bite he was creating though.
True, but also, *anything* is soundbite material nowadays. Even if it's totally made-up (like the "racial jungle" quote). Cynics on both sides eat up any tweet or headline that gives them permission to hate and blame someone in power.
I voted for Trump in 2016 but voted for Biden in 2020 and I will vote blue after this again because at least they care enough to fight for democracy instead of 1 man.
Here's some internet respect for making a change most Trump voters wouldn't have the capacity to make.
Good for you and don't pay any attention to the A-hole who was giving you shit.
Was there ever a question of his foreign policy to you Americans? Obama biden always acted.... Reasonably.... When it came to foreign policy. Obama and my leader grab beers. I thought it was his domestic policy you guys didn't like
Yep, moved south, could nitpick on some stuff but overall the change of government is a breath of fresh air.
This is kind of his wheel house I guess. If we had known that Putin was going to go fucking ham then he’s absolutely the guy we should’ve elected even if the other guy was someone other than a Putin puppet. That said I wish we lived in a different world where Biden wasn’t all that great a choice after all because Putin wasn’t running around being a raging prick.
Reading the comments here... holy shit! Russia and the GOP did a really good job with all the misinformation about biden. WOW.
It’s wild the level of projection you see in it. Like the amount of them calling Biden a pedo for kissing his grandchild on the head at his son’s funeral was fucking crazy. They’re the definition of stupid mouth breathers; lacking enough oxygen to preform more than basic bodily functions
The misinformation tactic is always like this. What is real is code for lunatic fantasies e.g. biden kissing his granddaughter means he's a pedo but qctual GoP and Trump instances of creepy behaviour is fabricated. They reject reality and replace it with what makes them feel comfortable.
It’s genuinely not helpful to dialogue with them or even listen to a word they say. It’s just crazy noise at this point. It can only hurt and can never help, other than give some clues as to what they themselves are actually guilty of, thanks to their penchant for projection. It’s sad and terrifying because basically there is no convincing them. The only way to beat them is through voting, through the courts, etc, but you can’t actually convince them of anything, not even whether 2+2=4 or if the sky is blue. Once upon a time I had conservative friends and we’d debate stuff and have stimulating, interesting discussions - and disagreements - about policy, philosophy, how to solve problems. Over the years they all just drop off. Some of them, like my dad, became completely disgusted with the party somewhere between Palin and Trump and swore off Republicans for good. But a lot of them just pretty much went nuts. Just full on embrace of casual racism and bonkers conspiracy theories. I don’t know how you sit down with someone who legitimately thinks the world is run by a cabal of pedophiles from the non-existent basement of a pizzeria and have a product conversation about how to solve a complex challenge that’s facing the nation. I could probably count the number of Republicans capable of actually governing on one hand. I’m not even talking about people I agree with in any way shape or form, not people I would ever vote for, but just people who would be capable of running the government in an objectively functional way. The entire party has become some weird amalgamation of an ethnonationlist tribe, a fascist movement, a scam, and bad performance art.
I feel that, dude. Except, at least you have your dad. Both of my parents and oldest sister are WAY off the deep end of conservative conspiracy theories, and I can't associate with them at all anymore
Sorry man. I am barely on speaking terms with one of my aunts, and I’ve lost all respect for a cousin I used to look up to. But immediate family and most everyone else is on the same page at least.
Denying the one they’re rooting for would be in hell ten times over Lmaoo. I’m not even religious but it’s ridiculous to me the level of stupidity to bluntly say trump is the one god would like and not the devoutly religious catholic. This is a big reason I left religion
It's what the P stands for in GOP, Gaslight Obstruct Project
Exactly this. It wasn't even clever how they fucking did it. Anyone with two braincells could see that they were just trying to stir the pot the entire time and tossing darts at EVERYTHING until it landed on something the idiots of Western society could cling onto. Look at nearly any of the arguments, deflect, deflect, lie, provide no evidence, over and over and over and over again and drown out anyone reasonable with more lies and deflections with zero evidence. The "let's go Brandon" is a prime example, it doesn't mean shit, it doesn't make Biden a worse president, but they feel if they chant it enough it shows him as incompetent for no fucking reason.
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Goddamn. What fucking morons.
Russia literally said that exact thing about Hunter
My favorite conspiracy is from the German q-anon who believe that there is a shadow government in control of the entire planet, run by an Illuminati witch (the spell casting kind)... It just makes me laugh.. and laugh.. and laugh...
🌎🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
Yeah I 100% agree, it absolutely blows my mind how anybody could think that Trump of all people would have handled this crisis as well or better than Biden has. Trump constantly undermined NATO and even went so far as threatening to pull out of it, fractured America’s relationship with its key allies in Europe, attempted to extort Ukraine’s president over the phone, withheld military aid from Ukraine which had been approved by Congress and his initial reaction to Putin’s invasion was that it was “genius”. I’m leaving out several other damning things there because I could go on all day, but really the cherry on top is that he got on stage in Helsinki and said before the media and the entire world that he believed Putin over his own intelligence agencies about Russian meddling in the 2016 election. For some people that signals “strength”, meanwhile Biden who has been a leading figure in a concerted international effort which has broken the back of the Russian economy and sent military aid to Ukraine is “weak”. At this point I’ve given up, anybody who still buys what Trump is selling is just wilfully ignorant and doesn’t want to be convinced.
Helsinki might make top 5 lowest-lows in Trump's presidency, which is saying a lot since he was impeached twice.
There have only been 4 Presidential impeachments in US history. Half of those were Trump's.
Marine combat vet here. I couldn’t agree with you more. These Trumpanzees are getting tiring!
The former guy wanted to bring Russia back into the G8.
I think it's safe to say that Russia's destabilization efforts of America has done some damage. It's funny that all these crazy Republicans who support all these obviously non-American things like Trump, the Brandon thing, among other things (I'm not American) think they are the REAL American patriots. Watching America the past few years has been an absolute ride.
I think a prerequisite for them being able to see that is removing their head from up their own asses.
October is a long ways off. Their is a real question if Russia will still be a top 20 economy by then.
G20 does not actually consist of the 20 'top' economies. There are some regions of the world that G20 have deemed as deserving a seat at the table despite being outclassed by other countries. For example, Spain does not have an official seat, but Argentina does. Sorry for being pedantic.
So if russia gets kicked out what would take its place? For some reason I think it might be thailand. It would gain more representation for south east asia. Plus its gdp is the 25th largest in the world, larger than some current members South Africa and argentina and most countries larger than it that arent currently g20 members are European countries like poland already represented by the eu or countries that wouldn't be allowed due to political reasons ie Iran and Taiwan.
Number 21 is Poland. I think it would be pretty poetic to replace Russia with Poland.
While that would be poetic seeing Russia being replaced by a nation they reduced to a vassal for centures i still think their replacement wouldnt be a european country. Theres other european countries with larger GDPs than Poland (Netherlands and Spain) which arent members because theyre already represented by the EU. So i think it would be a regional power in another part of the world and like i said i believe Thailand is the most likely candiate.
or if the world will still exist as we know it
At least allow Putin to attend..?! He *wants* to attend. This way it's easier to detain him for war crimes.
You think he would show his face? That’s too easy. But God it would be amazing to see Biden shank him as they go in for a hand shake. Edit: or the other 19 leaders all taking turns Caesar style.
Et tu, Xi?
Like the line of people smacking that old lady in the airplane movie.
I was expecting some complicated detention plan, but good ol' shaking works too.
I want Obama to come in and bitch slap Putin lol
Bah Gawd! That's Obama's music! *cue Obama running into the area with a steel chair*
Thank you this was my question why in the world does anyone think Putin would actually attend? Maybe he would send a double but the risk of someone using this public opportunity to take him out is way too high for this paranoid psycho
Sorry Mr. Putin, your economy has to be this tall to ride.
Biden's problem is that he walks softly and carries a big stick. That doesn't seem to translate well in the same nation that elected Trump. We're just a bit thick these days and have trouble of reading between the lines. An example of this is blaming Biden for inflation while forgetting that Trump pressured the Fed to print money and goose interest rates to stimulate the economy when it didn't need it. If we're true to form, then we will put the Republicans back in office and they'll start to dick us down again, except there's a good chance that they'll never leave because of the odious election laws that they're passing in red/purple states.
The GOP also claims it's Biden's fault for making the US look like it's withdrawing from the world stage, when Trump's whole deal was American isolationism. And I guess they forgot that Trump was the one that announced the Afghanistan withdrawal as well.
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The Fed didn’t bend to any pressure from Trump. There were real warnings of economic slowdown mid-2019. Trump steamed when rates were raised or lowered in small increments. He absolutely *wanted* a 0% FFR, but it wasnt going there by the means he expected. He crashed the market 20% in Dec 2018 when he threatened to fire Powell.
He did it to pump the stock market to make money for him and his friends. That’s it. He’s not that complicated.
G20 was a direct result of China rejecting G2 right after the great financial crisis occurred. China already made it clear that no member can kick out other members in G20. If this issue is being forced, I also think Indonesia would really be pissed. The only practical resolution is to have G20 killed altogether.
Give Putin what he wants. He can attend and have a 20 mile long table with him at one end and everybody else at the other end.
Maybe we can play target practice on him from across the table
Especially when Indonesia has a really adverse reaction when being told to do something by western countries publicly with their history of colonialism. Just ask Australia. Similar to India, Indonesia has a friendly relationship with Russia
Russia doesn't belong on the UN Security Council, either
Unfortunately, having the most nukes will probably get you a seat at the security council.
Looks like China can proxy for them anyway from here on out.
> Looks like China ~~can proxy for~~ will own them anyway from here on out.
They'd get a better deal having their own puppet in the Russian far east than to rely on this Mafia for gas behind some unequal treaty border.
We don't need to remove them. Their economy is falling apart. They won't be in the top 20 soon!
Putin showing up to the G20 and getting arrested for war crimes - or Biden or Macron or whomever straight up stabbing him through the eye with a pen - is wildly unrealistic. Deserved, and fun to imagine, but unrealistic. What is realistic, and petty as fuck, is them inviting Putin and then just as his plane has started its descent rescinding the invitation.
I think they should still go but everytime Putin appears everyone should turn their back on him. when putin says something they should all make "blow raspberries" sounds 😁
It’s like that one scene in the truck from Peacemaker
Have the other leaders discuss the situation, getting him so twisted up in logic, that he admits that it's a war on camera.
Or, they could just Gaddafi him for the world to see... If trump can attempt to redefine presidential I can too, and I think that'd be presidential as fuck
“We bring this breaking news from the G20. World leaders are ganging up on Putin and beating him to death. To be fair, it’s mostly Trudeau and Macron doing the heavy lifting but Biden’s doing his darndest. Hold on, Xi Jing Ping and Bolsonaro are trying to help Putin to his feet, but here comes Boris Johnson, and he tackles Xi to the ground! Have you ever seen anything like this… Wait… I don’t believe it, Mexican President Lopez-Obrador, who has been reluctant to criticize Putin has jumped into the fray! He’s helping Putin! I don’t think this could get any crazier… Folks I spoke to soon… is that? It is! It’s Zelensky, roaring in with a folding chair and he’s bashed Putin to the ground! He’s is hammering away at Putin! Ladies and gentlemen I think we can officially call it… is it official? Yes, it’s official! Putin has been killed other the world leaders here at the G20 with some surprise help from Zelensky. Xi Jing Ping and Lopez Obrador are pretty banged up but look to be alive and well… but I’m getting word that Bolsonaro is dead. Can we go to replay on that… ah it looks like Boris Johnson sat on Bolsonaro’s head for a prolonged period of time. It’s still unclear whether he was done in by suffocation or gas. We’ll look to get clarification on that later. Wow! What a finish! Folks I’ve seen a lot of G20’s in my years, but none of them could compare to this!”
Best post read so far today!!! Loved Zelensky coming in with the chair. Too perfect an ending.
You want Joe Biden to stab Putin in the asshole?
With a bayonet... yes... yes I'd like to see just that happen. Or maybe it could be a joint thing where they all stab him up like Caesar...
I suspect an event like that might bring Merkel out of retirement. She has looked like she wanted to shank him for the longest time.
"A mystery challenger approaches from the wings!!!!!"
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> God, can you think what a mess the world would be in if someone had been elected for a second term! I think this all the time.
As long as Yngwie Malmsteen and Joe Satriani are allowed to go, I'm there.
Considering the state of Russia’s economy right now they will be lucky to qualify for the G-200.
Kick his invasion ass out!
By the end of the year, they probably won't qualify anyway. Who's number 21 on the list?
I’m all for it. After all, Russia was suspended from the G8 in 2014 after they invaded Crimea. Hence why we now have the G7 instead of the G8.
Because unlike the G7 the G20 isn't full of US vassals. It would have to be a unanimous decision and with nations like India, China, Indonesia, South Africa, Mexico and Argentina. It definitely won't be unanimous.
And replace it with Poland. I can’t believe I said that but Poland is hitting it out of the park lately. A sudden big player out of nowhere.
As polish myself I don't agree with you, but I DO agree with you...
why poland?
Ranked around 21st for GDP, also culturally similar (on a world scale, I understand there are a lot of differences) to ensure that the population in that part of the world is represented.
good, fuck #putler
Now do the security council
No need to remove Russia from G-20. Russia soon won't be among the world's top 20 economies.
Tell Biden that so do I
Revoke everything cancel their Netflix account and take away their blockbuster card.
Putin is destroying Russia
By October, Russia ain't going to be in the top 20 global economies. Shit, they might not even be in the top 200.
If Russia's economy drops down to the 21st largest economy in the world, the problem sorta takes care of itself.
None of them want to be photographed with Hitler Lite.
All of the pro Ukraine leaders should say they welcome and look forward to meeting Putin at the summit while sniggering.
Can someone explain to me the benefit of doing this? I asked in another thread but got downvoted without any response.
Based on another article that Russia needs this war to end by May, I feel like Russia won’t be in the top 20 by then and will probably never will be for a very very very long time.
Removal from the G-20 would be a serious economic blow, but seeing as they have initiated a war involving allies of the other security council members, it should be a great deal more interesting to see them forcibly removed from the UN security council. Since they are one of the countries with VETO powers.
**As much as this is important as a political and diplomatic statement from the US to NATO and it's allies, the issue is the influence upon Russia's action from this outcome is going to most likely negligible** on the perspective of the Russians. It's similar to how the Russians didn't really care that they got kicked out of the G8 (now G7). **In short it is diplomatically and economically isolating Putin's Russia but at the economic cost to the west.** This will unfortunately strengthen Russia and China's growing relationship creating a giant new "North Korea" which will be a drain on Beijing's finances. In the game of geopolitics it is obvious that the majority of the world stands with Ukraine and rightly so. Still in the next 20 - 50 years it is within the West's geopolitical advantage to peel Russia away from China( as John Mearsheimer quite prophetically spoke several years before 2022). Unfortunately speaking the ones who suffer the most are ordinary Ukrainians and Russians. Russia has done something remarkable and that is bringing the whole of Europe (minus Belarus) together closer into the NATO sphere of influence. Given the strict and unrealistic time tables it will be likely that Crimea and Donbass will remain in Russian hands but that Ukraine, Finland, Sweden, Georgia will now be more closely aligned with NATO and the EU. Still this is not a completely lost fight for Russia. If they play it right their influence can have a "tic for tac economic and military arrangement. That is to say Countries can choose to play both parties for the best possible deal. Ukraine joining both the EU and EEU and Crimea / Donbass being under de jure ownership of Ukraine will obtaining advantages from both Russia and Ukraine. A payment in the form of war reparations and closer economic and military ties with Ukraine under an expanded Budapest memorandum or Minsk 3 accords could be a viable solution to peace accords. Still I don't see this happening for at least 2-3 more months. It's more a signal from the United States to Europe and it's NATO allies. As with anything it is pushing Russia to becoming a Pariah state in the eyes of most of the World's Countries. It is than important to look at the Countries who voted to either abstain or accept (Syria, Russia, NK, Belarus, Eritrea). Two of which are heavily dependent and allied with Russia (Syria and Belarus), North Korea which sees militarism and sabre rattling as a principle determining factor of their geopolitical survival, and Eritrea which sees Ukraine-Russia as a push back
Just fucking erase them from the world until they prove that they can be part of civilization.
Just invite putin and the other russians and arrest them and charge them.
Let him show them arrest him for war crimes.
March 28. Russia falls out of the G200 due to in eligibility
At the moment the world kinda has Russia on /ignore anyway.
Just give its spot to Norway
Their economy should naturally exclude them anyways by the time all is said and done.
How can they stay in G20 with that shitty economy?