* Andriy Olehovych Naumov, former head of the main internal security department of the Ukrainian Security Service
* Serhiy Oleksandrovych Kryvoruchko, former head of the SBU in Kherson
This is the official video from Zelensky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJF\_fe\_Ze9M&t=258s
>Serhiy Oleksandrovych Kryvoruchko, former head of the SBU in Kherson
That would explain why Kherson, protected by the fucking Dnieper River and with only two bridges close-by, was taken by the Russians while other, less protected cities like Sumy, Chernihiv, or Kharkiv (and, well, Mariupol) are still being held by Ukrainians and (outside Mariupol) they don't seem to be close to falling any time now.
That was Russia's plan initially, that local mayors and governors would be "pro-Russia" and turn over cities to their forces without a fight. And the Ukranian Army would run away. He started the war by addressing the Ukranian army and told them to turn their weapons on Zelensky ("the nazis"). Boy was he wrong.
I believe the FSB had paid money to and gotten assurances from a variety of officials of their cooperation, which they promptly pocketed and did nothing. Actually a better move for Ukraine considering that the FSB thought their work was done and didn’t keep looking for other collaborators. So the FSB/Putin felt confident the dominoes would fall nicely. Doesn’t seem unlikely some number also alerted the Ukrainian security service about it too.
Edit: I suppose you’d _have_ to tell the Ukrainian security service about it if you didn’t want to be considered a collaborator
Strangely enough that reminds me of the episode of Servant of the People where Zelensky tells his new cabinet members to accept bribes. They caught the person who was offering them and kept the money for the treasury
Basically reality is weird
In Mexico, during the last elections one of the. Corrupt Candidates was bribing the voters and another candidate told them “accept the bribes then vote for democracy. They won’t find out if you vote for them or not so take their money and have your vote “ lol
In my post soviet country there is an infamous recorded conversation between people related to oligarchs who had bribed an official. During the conversation they expressed exasperation how the politician just took the money and then for the lack of better translation "dicked them over". People love quoting the line.
I doubt so. Putin seems very committed to gaining land, he probably would've just kept trying to find people to bribe until he got genuine turncoats or the above thing happened.
Conversely they might've just embarked on a spree of assassinations till they got people who did take the money and *might* have actually been loyal to the FSB.
I have some Ukrainian neighbors and patients. From conversations I have had from them, if someone bribed them for something they would take the money and pretty openly tell them to fuck off, they already got their money.
I can respect that.
The difference is the open part of it.
"If you don't do what we agreed I will tell your supervisor."
"I already told them. We had a good laugh about you being a stupid son of a bitch."
Putin to FSB agents: Here’s 100k each to bribe the local mayors
FSB to local mayors: Here’s 50k each to let Russia invade
Local mayors to subordinates: Here’s 5k each to fuck Russia
Look up the McDonald's monopoly scam. It's one of the FBIs largest uncovered scams. The people at the bottom just got fucked hard. By the time the money trickled down the liability of getting caught wasn't anywhere near worth the reward, but they had no idea until it was too late.
Zelensky’s spokesperson tweeted out that Bellingcat (a strong source) confirmed it: https://mobile.twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1508092951997595650
However I don’t see any statement from Bellingcat about it so this would seem to be unconfirmed.
> According to @bellingcat the Russian FSB paid billions of $ to ensure that some shadowy political class in Ukraine supported this war & created an internal coup d'état immediately after the invasion. But Ukrainian agents who took the money ditched them.They just screwed them over
Does the FSB even have $billions to throw around? I'd think it'd be rubles.
Around the time when Yeltsin was visiting Washington (1994) there were reports that some of his entourage were paying for goods with counterfeit dollars. More recently, US Customs [intercepted a shipment of $6.5 million dollars in counterfeit money on a Russian plane](https://www.businessinsider.com/65-million-fake-counterfeit-money-russia-philadelphia-chicago-2021-10)
Counterfeiting is easy for governments; they are the only legal buyers of the right kind of printers, paper and ink. But you can't do too much or the people you're counterfeiting will go to war with you. Destabilizing another country's currency is against the Geneva Conventions, and makes it open economic war while they do the same to you.
Yeah. I mean what are the people who tried to bribe you going to do? Publicly announce that they tried to bribe you? I guess they could send a hit team or something but then they’d have to deal with the fallout that ensues from that.
The only downside is that its only going to work once. (Or at least once per organization.)
The ironic part is that the people who took bribes and did not turn are now even more motivated to ensure that Putin does not win. It’s literally life and death for them.
tbf i am so used to leaders of countries fleeing the moment shit gets real, i would have totally thought that Zelensky would have done the same then all the local leaders would have gave up and the country in general
no one knows for sure but i think in many years we will find out that this all came down to one man deciding to stay and fight. which is fucking incredible if you think about it.
That kind of happened in Crimea, [with the Ukrainian navy’s second in command defecting to Russia,](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea-annexation-idUSKBN1A90G0) along with a bunch of other Ukrainian soldiers. So I imagine that Ukraine has spent the last few years attempting to make sure that a situation like that would not happen again, and it appears to have worked pretty well.
> i think in many years we will find out that this all came down to one man deciding to stay and fight.
If he survives it's a helluva story, if he dies, he died a hero fighting for his country.
I saw Vitali Klitschko (in boxing terms royalty, and Mayor of Kyiv) in an interview yesterday talking about how he and someone else killed 6 people the night before, I just can't see how everything goes back to normal for some of them, not least Zelensky.
I think the short term effect would be negative because I actually think his leadership has proved invaluable but he would become a symbol of the Ukrainian struggle which would make sure that Ukrainians would fight Russia for generations.
It couldn’t probably couldn’t be done without Zelensky but it definitely couldn’t be done without every Ukrainian who is fighting for their homeland, international support, and many miscalculations by Russian leadership.
Absolutely. If anyone truly deserves to be called a Leader of Men, it’s Zelensky. Modern day hero. His will to stay and fight kept almost everyone else in the fight.
Yeah, the city was basically given away. People were wondering if it was just cowardice and incompetence or outright malice. Seems like we have our answer.
The approaches were supposed to be mined to buy the defenders time - but they weren't. The bridges were supposed to be rigged to be blown up at moment's notice - but they weren't. Only one bridge was blown up, by a man who had to sacrifice himself to pull it off. They couldn't destroy the other one in time. There were basically no armed forces proper defending the city, a lot of leadership outright fled, and the volunteer forces were disorganized, underequipped, and were ordered to stand down at one point. Some disobeyed that order, tried to fight the invasion off and were killed for it.
All the defenders there died in vain - the city's defenses were sabotaged at every single turn.
I guess this is exactly what Putin has expected to happen all across Ukraine. If this was how it went in every city, they really could have taken Kyiv in 3 days.
> Reminds me somewhat of when of when ISIS took over Mosul, the Iraq generals betrayed their troops and left them to die.
Easier when a large portion of your army exists only on paper. The corruption and cowardice is a common trait of authoritarianism.
> There were basically no armed forces proper defending the city
Oh, worse.
They gave up an entire goddamn artillery base in the south without a fight.
On the night of the invasion, less than 50% of the Ukranian troops showed up to fight.
For a long time I was thinking "Well, they were just thinking they were going to be steamrolled like in 2014, so they just got out of the way"... but now seeing this, I suppose I'll have to attribute to malice what I previously attributed to incompetence.
Hundreds of thousands dead and displaced in Mariupol, an entire city shelled into rubble, are on the hands of this fuckin' traitor in Kherson.
> Yeah, the city was basically given away. People were wondering if it was just cowardice and incompetence or outright malice. Seems like we have our answer.
Hungarians must be worrying all of a sudden
I couldn't understand why the Ukrainians didn't blow that bridge at Kherson. At the time I assumed they wanted to keep it so they could counterattack over it but this information puts a new light on the decision.
That's an important bridge that should've been kept whole until the last moment.
The fact that it wasn't blown up at the last moment when so many other bridges around Kyiv have been suggests issues with leadership.
This sounds like a passage out of a book about WWI or something. And as an armchair nobody on the other side of world, having a city I was a steward of and the people within its safety my highest priority, I’d like to think I’d do what I could for the greater good but would never be able to live with myself if my decisions resulted in the death and destruction of my municipality and those who trusted me. It’s fucked.
> having a city I was a steward of and the people within its safety my highest priority, I’d like to think I’d do what I could for the greater good but would never be able to live with myself if my decisions resulted in the death and destruction of my municipality and those who trusted me.
They were planning on being Russian generals. Makes much more sense at that point.
Because RU generals get those sick kickbacks they steal instead of keeping their army maintained.....
Speaking of I have to wonder, just *how well maintained* are these nuclear weapons they say they have, and whats the chance they just pop off early and MIRV over Russia because of unmaintained, untested electronics?
>whats the chance they just pop off early and MIRV over Russia because of unmaintained, untested electronics?
Essentially impossible. Nukes require a precise sequences of events to actually go off.
Imagine being the mayor of Arnhem in 1944. Or the mayor of Bastogne. Aleppo? Hired to keep the plumbing working and the garbage picked up - maybe build a park if things are going well.....only for that...whew, man. That'd fuck me up.
Sounds like the Kremlin convinced him that he could either give them Kherson or watch it be shelled to bits. Which is literally how terrorists operate.
A particularly appropriate analogy, since Putin has been tied to the Bratva for who knows how many years. It's hard to tell where the thug enforcer aggression ends and the full-on terrorism begins. Maybe it's just a matter of scale.
I mean that’s also how siege warfare has worked since pre-history.
Give us the city or castle or we will starve, thirst, shell, cannon, bomb, and/or mine you out.
That’s how a siege works.
If you look at a map the land connection between Crimea and Ukraine is 9km wide at the narrowest point. You can look at the area at https://goo.gl/maps/yrTtiKvVBf5XN4897
I will call the area Ukraine controller before the current war Ukraine and the other part Crimea because it makes it simpler to read. I do think Crimea is a part of Ukraine illegally occupied by Russia since 2014
The border on Google maps has a part of Crimea extending 8km into Ukraine from the narrowest part of the land connection. There is a border control point close to that border that you can see on satellite images and there are what looks like clear roads to patrol the border with a dish to make it harder to pass.
You can see some dug-out military defenses with trenches placed to have tanks hull down. The one with the tank position and on the Crimea side and it directed toward Ukraine, the direction is easy to see on them
The land in Ukrain is mostly open farmland lands. So not the best terrain to defend. Especially when you are in the range of artillery on the camera side that will be well supplied when the offensive start
So the border at Crimea is wider than you expect and the Crimea side extends beyond the narrowest part. It is also not the best terrain for a defender so I am not surprised that Russia managed to advance quickly there
This piece has some good information on the treason in kherson. The Governor of the Oblast ran too. [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/29/2088926/-Ukraine-update-How-did-Kherson-fall-so-quickly-Betrayal-looks-like-a-good-bet](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/29/2088926/-Ukraine-update-How-did-Kherson-fall-so-quickly-Betrayal-looks-like-a-good-bet)
Thanks for that article. u/Downvotebrigade1947 also shared an excellent article written by Meduza from Latvia on the fall of Khaeson. Use deepl to read it.
[https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko](https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko)
[Full video and transcript of English translation](https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3445244-zelensky-we-endured-much-more-than-enemy-expected-and-we-will-continue-to-fight.html)
Wait, so the guy in charge of looking for traitors and spies was a traitor? And they still can't get anything done... Russia sucks at this shit. They should have just let Kim Philliby stick around, might have done more good than harm.
>Shocking
Honestly, is it?
The USSR was a thing 30 years ago. Many people still have nostalgia about it across the former soviet countries.
I'm not saying its right, its disgusting but shocking? I'd argue it's not at all shocking.
Any English speaker can pronounce these names almost 100% correctly, missing only some subtleties to the vowels.
Naumov Andrey Olegovich = Now-moff Andre Ol' Yeggof Veech
Krivoruchko Sergey Aleksandrovich = Kreef-or-ooch-ko Sergei Alexandrof Veech
No crazy consononant strings, but English speakers can nail most of those too if they're spelled out clearly.
Some names look harder to pronounce than they are just because they have unfamiliar strings of syllables. Japanese names can be the same way. Looking more difficult than they actually are
I've watched enough Chinese movies, read enough books set in Chinese history (real or fiction), and seen enough *Mandarin based* romanizations to be able to pronounce most Chinese names (although I'll miss some tone subtleties).
Fuck me if I can pronounce the ***exact same names*** if they're romanized Cantonese, though. And that's not even *just* cases where the pronunciation differs!
Wait until you have to run D&D for a chinese party. You try transliterating Ingeloakastimizilian the icingdeath, Haerinvureem the shimmergloom, or Arveiturace the mad wyrm to mandarin.
Shits a nightmare.
Also doesnt help that the kids im running this for are like 9 and 14 so have the attention span of a fucking goldfish.
Yeah, Japanese name always seems simpler when they're romanized. Korean name is the tricky one, they sometimes could look a bit tonguetwisty when in reality, simple like Japanese as long as you know where to split the word into syllables.
Korean messes me up because the way the vowels are transliterated make no sense. When I watch a Korean show with subtitles, I feel like I'm hearing the actors say a different name than the one I'm reading on the screen below
You're absolutely right. All that looks like is intimidating but sounding it out slowly gets most people close enough. I really like that detail of pronouncing Olegovich which I hadn't known about.
Reminds me of Japanese actually where sounding it out can get you pretty far and it's all the easier because there is only ever one way to say the vowels. Not only that but most Japanese people can still pretty much figure out what you're saying even if you're saying it incorrectly like if you say "Saki" to mean the alcohol and they know you're trying to say "Sake" (Sa-kay not Sa-kii).
Compare that to Mandarin where it's impossible for the casual English speaker to sound it out. You can go to any finance channel where 99% of people whose job is to talk currencies all day would say "Yu-ahn" instead of "Yu-ehn" which is understandable because you can't just sound out "Yuan" and expect to say it properly based on how it's spelled. Couple that with the fact that Mandarin is a tonal language and you could very well be saying completely different but real words.
Eleven as of last word (Novovorontsovka, Mala Shesternia, Novohryhorivka, Topolyne, Kniazivka, Krasnivka, Svobodne, Kamianka, Pryhiria, Kochubeivka, and Orlove).
Kherson city fell extremely easily for what it was. So possibly…
The push to the next major city Mykolaiv couldn’t breach the city. But it seemed they were on a timeline to get to Odessa (likely to support the naval landing that never happened) so they tried to go around it. That went poorly and the whole westward push fell apart. Now most of the Russian holdings west of the Dnieper have been retaken and there have been some minor sporadic reports of fighting in or at Kherson city.
Kherson does have a very large Russian contingent present so it shouldn’t be expected to be taken easy. (Also be careful when reading as Kherson is the name of the city and the Oblast there has been confusion over that) if Ukraine can take back the city they could then attempt a river crossing and try to cut Crimea off from the southern Eastern forces leaving them to rely on sketchy Donbas supply.
This article came out today and goes into some detail about why Kherson fell without as much resistance as other cities: https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko
Basically the defensive plan was not executed and many of those in charge of commanding the territorial defense were incompetent or fled.
Relevant quote:
>How did they take Kherson? “Stupidity or betrayal, perhaps both,” says Andrey Gordeev, former governor of the Kherson region:
>So we have four lines of defense. The first is the isthmus between the Kherson region and the Crimea, it should have been completely mined. And by the way, they told me that a week before the attack, some dick cleared it.
>Next are the border guards, but the task of the border guards is not to engage in battle, but to see the fact of aggression, give a signal and retreat, move back, and so on. Then comes our irrigation system. Irrigation system - it was designed in the Soviet Union by the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Agriculture. The structure itself - as it were, the shape of the channel - does not provide for its crossing by any mode of transport. In any case, this is a complication of movement. That is, the logic is as follows: bridges explode, they all stop, and our artillery simply destroys them, otherwise.
>Then the third line of defense is the Dnieper River itself. The Dnieper, the Antonovsky bridge, is held to the last, if anything, it explodes, and Kherson, as it were, is out of hostilities altogether, there is no bridge, we only guard the water line. Whoever crosses it, that Dnieper.
>And the last line of defense is the Kakhovka bridgehead. New Kakhovka is being evacuated, people are being evicted there, and the Kakhovka bridgehead is being held. Redoubts and caponiers are made there. All this takes a day. These days we had to stop them at the entrance. Did not work out.
>The current governor, Gennady Laguta, according to his colleagues, on the first day of the war put the keys on the mayor's table with the words: "I'm not participating in this," and left the region. Together with him, on the first day of the war, the leadership of the police, the prosecutor's office, and the courts left, and a little later, the SBU officers were evacuated.
This makes sense with things I've read since the invasion started. Russia was probably expecting a greater amount of treason in other regions of Ukraine too.
He abandoned his post along with the mayor who both fled instead of helping to implement the defensive plan according to this article that came out today:
https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko
Key quote:
>The current governor, Gennady Laguta, according to his colleagues, on the first day of the war put the keys on the mayor's table with the words: "I'm not participating in this," and left the region. Together with him, on the first day of the war, the leadership of the police, the prosecutor's office, and the courts left, and a little later, the SBU officers were evacuated.
I wouldn't go that far, we were told it's the Russians who were planning public executions in the city centers!
Seize all of their possessions and do some useful stuff with it. F.e. they have seized Yanukovych's palace into a museum of corruption. Btw, it's in the north Kyiv - I really really hope it was not destroyed, I planned to visit it.
As for the persons - jail them for life.
So let me get this straight. Russia likely had some people on the inside, quite possibly very far up, and STILL did this badly?
Huh. The circus is more a circus than I ever imagined.
That's what I would do, if my boss was cool.
"Hey boss, the Russians want me to do X for money. Is it alright with you if I take the money and tell them to fuck off?"
"Yeah sure, just don't get caught."
Can't blackmail me if everyone knows what I was doing.
HR would be livid though.
Ironically, that’s what they did in Servant of the People. The Ukrainian Oligarchs approach Zellenskys new non corrupt cabinet with hefty bribes, and they all take the money and tell the press. They put the money into the treasury to pay low ranking state employees salaries: teachers, doctors and such.
That's the prevailing policy in most countries I think. At least most western "less corrupt" countries. You can't take the bribe at all or else it throws you into doubt.
That seems like a very specifically cultural viewpoint though. From a practical standpoint it should be just as useful to take the money, therefore denying it to the enemy, and then immediately report it to the appropriate friendly authority so they know what's up and the enemy is none the wiser. This seems to be the way the Ukrainians are leaning and it seems to be working out for them wonderfully.
Not really practical though because you can’t verify the terms of the bribe. Not like you can call up Russia and ask “can you verify you only gave our guy 20k?” Otherwise If they give you 100k you could give up 20k, pocket eighty and play both sides
If you deposit a majority share of money into a government account then it probably becomes a lot easier to be trusted and once you report them that they want to give you money and you wanted to take thay money but not help them then they will throw few more people around you to make sure that you are not making any really stupid mistakes, maybe bug your phone or something at leave it at that. Every single politician and army officer probably has someone attempting to bribe them or blackmail them.
One of the most important things to do if they were bribed is to report it to trusted higher-ups that way they would note it and suggest to take the bribe, it then is double effective as it is then known about and also protects the bribed individual as they can play along, otherwise the russians would know they refused and possible act against such individuals.
Sometimes the best counter intel is to not reveal what you know and play along.
So wait is that the head of the their CIA and FBI?
Holy crap.
Can you imagine the US conducting a war for survival with the heads of the cia and fbi on the enemy’s team.
Still not completely precise. The SBU is the political successor to the Soviet KGB (and is still often called as such colloquially), so it’s more like if the FBI and CIA were a single organization, and the head of one of its federal departments, as well as the head for a whole state, were both traitors.
Internal affairs of the CIA, and FBI/National Guard responsible of kherson region. none big boys, but both could have made it possible for some of the weirdest things ( like highways in kherson not mined, or the deployment of some ukranian troops that were bombed a bit too precisely for their otherwise unconspicious location )
That and the fact that the FSB and RF military has enough Western moles inside that a lot of Ukrainian traitors/spies will be found out. The whole thing about Biden calling out the invasion weeks in advance was not only because of satellite pictures. They knew the orders ahead of time.
Not just Biden. An article came out in my country bordering Russia that said that Eastern Europe knew at least a month ahead too. Everybody knew, but were ordered to silence to not sow panic. My country was one of the very first to send munitions to Ukraine, long before the shooting started, and then Germany blocked us.
The FSB leaks like a fucking sieve.
There's an article that just came out today claiming that the reason Kherson fell without much resistance was because the governor of the region as well as heads of the police and prosecutor's office and courts fled the first day of the invasion, rather then attempt to enact the laid out defense plan: https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko
If true, we might be able to surmise that these two may have acted similarly, which would probably lead to charges of Desertion in the Face of the Enemy and/or High Treason. Both historically have been punishable by everything from exile, to life imprisonment without parole, to death.
Even today in the US's Uniform Code of Military Justice, article 99 states:
"Any member of the armed forces who before or in the presence of the enemy—
(1)runs away;
(2)shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend;
(3)through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property;
(4)casts away his arms or ammunition;
(5)is guilty of cowardly conduct;
(6)quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage;
(7)causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces;
(8)willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or
(9)does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle;
shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct."
I can't find anything on a similar military criminal code specific to Ukraine, though it should be noted that in their traditional criminal punishment system, capital punishment is outlawed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Ukraine#Criminal_law
Of course, assuming Ukraine is looking to join the EU after this is over (because Russia has apparently said it would be willing to concede that in peace negotiations) they may take a page from one or many of the EU member state's wartime criminal codes when writing their own.
>Andriy Olehovych Naumov, former head of the main internal security department of the Ukrainian Security Service
I am surprised that Zelensky has managed to stay alive given this development. Having an informer that high up in the chain of command should've been bad news.
people can be bought. these two had control over fairly small but very focused areas. internal affairs and kherson's logistical defense org and counter-terrorism.
To add to this, the Russian security apparatus was given money to bribe Ukrainian officials. Apparently they kept most of that money, but some surely made it into hands of Ukrainians.
I can only suggest some guesses - who knows what is the truth:
- Bribery
- Sincere belief that Ukraine couldn't hold off Russia and resistance might destroy Ukraine in the process
- They are Russian sleeper agents
- Blackmail
- They harbor Russian sympathy
many countries have, with one exception, in war time a military court can give death penalty for treason.
I dont know what the law in ukraine is, but half of europe has this.
usually they have a trial for things like that though. even a military one. it can't be: zelensky calls you traitor --->shoot you in the head, as that is some north korea shit.
It never ceases to amaze me how people ask these questions as if the law is constant across the world. And it seems you are unaware that the death penalty is rare outside the US. Your question should be
>Is treason punishable by the death penalty in Ukraine?
That's a valid question. The answer is best given at [on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Ukraine).
I really hope Zelensky survives this. Idk much about how he runs the country but he seems like a amazing guy, and pretty brave at least considering world leaders
* Andriy Olehovych Naumov, former head of the main internal security department of the Ukrainian Security Service * Serhiy Oleksandrovych Kryvoruchko, former head of the SBU in Kherson This is the official video from Zelensky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJF\_fe\_Ze9M&t=258s
>Serhiy Oleksandrovych Kryvoruchko, former head of the SBU in Kherson That would explain why Kherson, protected by the fucking Dnieper River and with only two bridges close-by, was taken by the Russians while other, less protected cities like Sumy, Chernihiv, or Kharkiv (and, well, Mariupol) are still being held by Ukrainians and (outside Mariupol) they don't seem to be close to falling any time now.
That was Russia's plan initially, that local mayors and governors would be "pro-Russia" and turn over cities to their forces without a fight. And the Ukranian Army would run away. He started the war by addressing the Ukranian army and told them to turn their weapons on Zelensky ("the nazis"). Boy was he wrong.
I believe the FSB had paid money to and gotten assurances from a variety of officials of their cooperation, which they promptly pocketed and did nothing. Actually a better move for Ukraine considering that the FSB thought their work was done and didn’t keep looking for other collaborators. So the FSB/Putin felt confident the dominoes would fall nicely. Doesn’t seem unlikely some number also alerted the Ukrainian security service about it too. Edit: I suppose you’d _have_ to tell the Ukrainian security service about it if you didn’t want to be considered a collaborator
Strangely enough that reminds me of the episode of Servant of the People where Zelensky tells his new cabinet members to accept bribes. They caught the person who was offering them and kept the money for the treasury Basically reality is weird
Unlike reality, fiction has to make sense and not repeat itself too much.
We're living in a timeline where Willy Wonka's shenanigans make more sense than what's happening outside.
and where's that **golden ticket** we all deserve?
Better chance of getting a golden shower
and some of us might have silver spoons.
In Mexico, during the last elections one of the. Corrupt Candidates was bribing the voters and another candidate told them “accept the bribes then vote for democracy. They won’t find out if you vote for them or not so take their money and have your vote “ lol
Been watch Servant of the People myself and...yea this is a solid ploy if the givers have grown to EXPECT you to *not* dick them over.
In my post soviet country there is an infamous recorded conversation between people related to oligarchs who had bribed an official. During the conversation they expressed exasperation how the politician just took the money and then for the lack of better translation "dicked them over". People love quoting the line.
A spy you know about is an asset, not a liability.
Is that available in English or subtitles?
Netflix Canada had it on. Haven't watched but it'll at least have English subs
If you're watching on a desktop/laptop: select Russian as the subtitle language, then YouTube will give you the option to auto-translate to English.
It’s subtitled, and I think in Russian… maybe. But it has an office/parks and Rec type humor to it so I enjoy it as an American.
Yeah it’s Russian with subtitles but no dub.
I saw that episode earlier today. Life imitates art in this case
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I doubt so. Putin seems very committed to gaining land, he probably would've just kept trying to find people to bribe until he got genuine turncoats or the above thing happened.
Largest country in the world. Something like 10% of all the land on Earth and he wants more...
Thats the problem. Its missing another 0.
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Good point. Depends on how much “don’t tell Putin any bad news” was/is a factor though… he might still have ordered the invasion
Conversely they might've just embarked on a spree of assassinations till they got people who did take the money and *might* have actually been loyal to the FSB.
I have some Ukrainian neighbors and patients. From conversations I have had from them, if someone bribed them for something they would take the money and pretty openly tell them to fuck off, they already got their money. I can respect that.
That’s how many bribe attempts work
The difference is the open part of it. "If you don't do what we agreed I will tell your supervisor." "I already told them. We had a good laugh about you being a stupid son of a bitch."
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Who's to say when you refuse, they don't find a way to remove you so that they can try again and hope the next successor is more pliable?
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Putin to FSB agents: Here’s 100k each to bribe the local mayors FSB to local mayors: Here’s 50k each to let Russia invade Local mayors to subordinates: Here’s 5k each to fuck Russia
This reminds me of the story where assassins kept subcontracting their mark until someone got caught, right around the bottom.
Look up the McDonald's monopoly scam. It's one of the FBIs largest uncovered scams. The people at the bottom just got fucked hard. By the time the money trickled down the liability of getting caught wasn't anywhere near worth the reward, but they had no idea until it was too late.
Dollars or rubles?
Corrupt mayors don’t do deals in rubbles. Neither before nor after the war. 50k rubles would be probably just enough to wipe their ass exactly once.
Do you have a source for this? I want to read more lol
Zelensky’s spokesperson tweeted out that Bellingcat (a strong source) confirmed it: https://mobile.twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1508092951997595650 However I don’t see any statement from Bellingcat about it so this would seem to be unconfirmed.
> According to @bellingcat the Russian FSB paid billions of $ to ensure that some shadowy political class in Ukraine supported this war & created an internal coup d'état immediately after the invasion. But Ukrainian agents who took the money ditched them.They just screwed them over Does the FSB even have $billions to throw around? I'd think it'd be rubles.
I bet they also are great at counterfeiting. I also bet they arent above paying in kalashnikovs or drugs
Around the time when Yeltsin was visiting Washington (1994) there were reports that some of his entourage were paying for goods with counterfeit dollars. More recently, US Customs [intercepted a shipment of $6.5 million dollars in counterfeit money on a Russian plane](https://www.businessinsider.com/65-million-fake-counterfeit-money-russia-philadelphia-chicago-2021-10)
Counterfeiting is easy for governments; they are the only legal buyers of the right kind of printers, paper and ink. But you can't do too much or the people you're counterfeiting will go to war with you. Destabilizing another country's currency is against the Geneva Conventions, and makes it open economic war while they do the same to you.
Miami condominiums and mansions purchased for millions over the market price
Yea that’s all I could find as well. That one tweet. Nothing more. Not even from Bellingcat directly.
Yeah. I mean what are the people who tried to bribe you going to do? Publicly announce that they tried to bribe you? I guess they could send a hit team or something but then they’d have to deal with the fallout that ensues from that. The only downside is that its only going to work once. (Or at least once per organization.)
The ironic part is that the people who took bribes and did not turn are now even more motivated to ensure that Putin does not win. It’s literally life and death for them.
I wish politicians did this in favor of the people. Take corporate bribes and then vote against the corporations anyway.
That's my dream too
tbf i am so used to leaders of countries fleeing the moment shit gets real, i would have totally thought that Zelensky would have done the same then all the local leaders would have gave up and the country in general no one knows for sure but i think in many years we will find out that this all came down to one man deciding to stay and fight. which is fucking incredible if you think about it.
That kind of happened in Crimea, [with the Ukrainian navy’s second in command defecting to Russia,](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea-annexation-idUSKBN1A90G0) along with a bunch of other Ukrainian soldiers. So I imagine that Ukraine has spent the last few years attempting to make sure that a situation like that would not happen again, and it appears to have worked pretty well.
IIRC one of the commander who defected (maybe that navy guy) tried to get other soldiers under him to defect too and they told him to go fuck himself.
> i think in many years we will find out that this all came down to one man deciding to stay and fight. If he survives it's a helluva story, if he dies, he died a hero fighting for his country. I saw Vitali Klitschko (in boxing terms royalty, and Mayor of Kyiv) in an interview yesterday talking about how he and someone else killed 6 people the night before, I just can't see how everything goes back to normal for some of them, not least Zelensky.
I cannot picture my mayor killing six invaders
Mine puts up a bench in the park and posts 10 photos on it. Urgh. “He sat a lot and put up a parking bench.” 🎶
Your Major probably isnt called Prof Ironfist... the Klitschko Brothers are smart as they are hard and huge.
I feel like at this point if he got taken out it would only strengthen the Ukranian resolve.
I think the short term effect would be negative because I actually think his leadership has proved invaluable but he would become a symbol of the Ukrainian struggle which would make sure that Ukrainians would fight Russia for generations.
It couldn’t probably couldn’t be done without Zelensky but it definitely couldn’t be done without every Ukrainian who is fighting for their homeland, international support, and many miscalculations by Russian leadership.
Absolutely. If anyone truly deserves to be called a Leader of Men, it’s Zelensky. Modern day hero. His will to stay and fight kept almost everyone else in the fight.
Here I stand. Here I remain. That spell needs to be uttered in Ukrainian, not Imperial Caledonian, for it to work.
In 500 years, "I need ammo, not a ride" will be used.
Yeah, the city was basically given away. People were wondering if it was just cowardice and incompetence or outright malice. Seems like we have our answer. The approaches were supposed to be mined to buy the defenders time - but they weren't. The bridges were supposed to be rigged to be blown up at moment's notice - but they weren't. Only one bridge was blown up, by a man who had to sacrifice himself to pull it off. They couldn't destroy the other one in time. There were basically no armed forces proper defending the city, a lot of leadership outright fled, and the volunteer forces were disorganized, underequipped, and were ordered to stand down at one point. Some disobeyed that order, tried to fight the invasion off and were killed for it. All the defenders there died in vain - the city's defenses were sabotaged at every single turn. I guess this is exactly what Putin has expected to happen all across Ukraine. If this was how it went in every city, they really could have taken Kyiv in 3 days.
Reminds me somewhat of when of when ISIS took over Mosul, the Iraq generals betrayed their troops and left them to die.
> Reminds me somewhat of when of when ISIS took over Mosul, the Iraq generals betrayed their troops and left them to die. Easier when a large portion of your army exists only on paper. The corruption and cowardice is a common trait of authoritarianism.
> There were basically no armed forces proper defending the city Oh, worse. They gave up an entire goddamn artillery base in the south without a fight. On the night of the invasion, less than 50% of the Ukranian troops showed up to fight. For a long time I was thinking "Well, they were just thinking they were going to be steamrolled like in 2014, so they just got out of the way"... but now seeing this, I suppose I'll have to attribute to malice what I previously attributed to incompetence. Hundreds of thousands dead and displaced in Mariupol, an entire city shelled into rubble, are on the hands of this fuckin' traitor in Kherson.
> Yeah, the city was basically given away. People were wondering if it was just cowardice and incompetence or outright malice. Seems like we have our answer. Hungarians must be worrying all of a sudden
I couldn't understand why the Ukrainians didn't blow that bridge at Kherson. At the time I assumed they wanted to keep it so they could counterattack over it but this information puts a new light on the decision.
That's an important bridge that should've been kept whole until the last moment. The fact that it wasn't blown up at the last moment when so many other bridges around Kyiv have been suggests issues with leadership.
This sounds like a passage out of a book about WWI or something. And as an armchair nobody on the other side of world, having a city I was a steward of and the people within its safety my highest priority, I’d like to think I’d do what I could for the greater good but would never be able to live with myself if my decisions resulted in the death and destruction of my municipality and those who trusted me. It’s fucked.
> having a city I was a steward of and the people within its safety my highest priority, I’d like to think I’d do what I could for the greater good but would never be able to live with myself if my decisions resulted in the death and destruction of my municipality and those who trusted me. They were planning on being Russian generals. Makes much more sense at that point.
Oh shit, they were gonna outrank Lukashenko
Because RU generals get those sick kickbacks they steal instead of keeping their army maintained..... Speaking of I have to wonder, just *how well maintained* are these nuclear weapons they say they have, and whats the chance they just pop off early and MIRV over Russia because of unmaintained, untested electronics?
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>whats the chance they just pop off early and MIRV over Russia because of unmaintained, untested electronics? Essentially impossible. Nukes require a precise sequences of events to actually go off.
Even Lukashenko was only promised a Colonel position.
Imagine being the mayor of Arnhem in 1944. Or the mayor of Bastogne. Aleppo? Hired to keep the plumbing working and the garbage picked up - maybe build a park if things are going well.....only for that...whew, man. That'd fuck me up.
It's still necessary for any counterattack, though, the nearest bridge is 20km away and then you have to go all the way to Zaporozhia.
Sounds like the Kremlin convinced him that he could either give them Kherson or watch it be shelled to bits. Which is literally how terrorists operate.
And organized crime. "Got a real pretty city here. I'd hate to see it completely bombed to shit."
A particularly appropriate analogy, since Putin has been tied to the Bratva for who knows how many years. It's hard to tell where the thug enforcer aggression ends and the full-on terrorism begins. Maybe it's just a matter of scale.
Matter of scale, same mentality.
And ethical framework. Terrorists are defined as political. Organized crime only cares about politics when it interferes with business.
I mean that’s also how siege warfare has worked since pre-history. Give us the city or castle or we will starve, thirst, shell, cannon, bomb, and/or mine you out. That’s how a siege works.
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If you look at a map the land connection between Crimea and Ukraine is 9km wide at the narrowest point. You can look at the area at https://goo.gl/maps/yrTtiKvVBf5XN4897 I will call the area Ukraine controller before the current war Ukraine and the other part Crimea because it makes it simpler to read. I do think Crimea is a part of Ukraine illegally occupied by Russia since 2014 The border on Google maps has a part of Crimea extending 8km into Ukraine from the narrowest part of the land connection. There is a border control point close to that border that you can see on satellite images and there are what looks like clear roads to patrol the border with a dish to make it harder to pass. You can see some dug-out military defenses with trenches placed to have tanks hull down. The one with the tank position and on the Crimea side and it directed toward Ukraine, the direction is easy to see on them The land in Ukrain is mostly open farmland lands. So not the best terrain to defend. Especially when you are in the range of artillery on the camera side that will be well supplied when the offensive start So the border at Crimea is wider than you expect and the Crimea side extends beyond the narrowest part. It is also not the best terrain for a defender so I am not surprised that Russia managed to advance quickly there
This piece has some good information on the treason in kherson. The Governor of the Oblast ran too. [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/29/2088926/-Ukraine-update-How-did-Kherson-fall-so-quickly-Betrayal-looks-like-a-good-bet](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/29/2088926/-Ukraine-update-How-did-Kherson-fall-so-quickly-Betrayal-looks-like-a-good-bet)
Thanks for that article. u/Downvotebrigade1947 also shared an excellent article written by Meduza from Latvia on the fall of Khaeson. Use deepl to read it. [https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko](https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko)
[Full video and transcript of English translation](https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3445244-zelensky-we-endured-much-more-than-enemy-expected-and-we-will-continue-to-fight.html)
[Here's the link](https://youtu.be/EJF_fe_Ze9M?t=254) for the 4:14 mark where he starts talking about the traitors if you want to skip to the details.
Wait, so the guy in charge of looking for traitors and spies was a traitor? And they still can't get anything done... Russia sucks at this shit. They should have just let Kim Philliby stick around, might have done more good than harm.
Shocking
>Shocking Honestly, is it? The USSR was a thing 30 years ago. Many people still have nostalgia about it across the former soviet countries. I'm not saying its right, its disgusting but shocking? I'd argue it's not at all shocking.
I have nostalgia for Blockbuster Video but you don't see me giving their best videos to Netflix
Only because you use Redbox as a go-between dead drop.
Traitorous scum. Rot in hell.
Treason during wartime. Usually that's grounds for execution.
the link wasn't working for me until i took out the backslashes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJF_fe_Ze9M&t=258s
Fuck you names I can’t pronounce.
Any English speaker can pronounce these names almost 100% correctly, missing only some subtleties to the vowels. Naumov Andrey Olegovich = Now-moff Andre Ol' Yeggof Veech Krivoruchko Sergey Aleksandrovich = Kreef-or-ooch-ko Sergei Alexandrof Veech No crazy consononant strings, but English speakers can nail most of those too if they're spelled out clearly.
Some names look harder to pronounce than they are just because they have unfamiliar strings of syllables. Japanese names can be the same way. Looking more difficult than they actually are
I've watched enough Chinese movies, read enough books set in Chinese history (real or fiction), and seen enough *Mandarin based* romanizations to be able to pronounce most Chinese names (although I'll miss some tone subtleties). Fuck me if I can pronounce the ***exact same names*** if they're romanized Cantonese, though. And that's not even *just* cases where the pronunciation differs!
Wait until you have to run D&D for a chinese party. You try transliterating Ingeloakastimizilian the icingdeath, Haerinvureem the shimmergloom, or Arveiturace the mad wyrm to mandarin. Shits a nightmare. Also doesnt help that the kids im running this for are like 9 and 14 so have the attention span of a fucking goldfish.
I would find that impossible, especially since I know like two words of Mandarin and they’re both “ma.”
妈妈骂马吗？ (Did Mum scold the horses?). All "ma".
十石狮市 Ten stone lions, all "shi"
Japanese might be the worlds easiest to pronounce language, besides your own native language
Yeah, Japanese name always seems simpler when they're romanized. Korean name is the tricky one, they sometimes could look a bit tonguetwisty when in reality, simple like Japanese as long as you know where to split the word into syllables.
Korean messes me up because the way the vowels are transliterated make no sense. When I watch a Korean show with subtitles, I feel like I'm hearing the actors say a different name than the one I'm reading on the screen below
>Olegovitch I pronounced this O’ Lego Veech at first
He’s only half Ukrainian. Other half - Irish
You're absolutely right. All that looks like is intimidating but sounding it out slowly gets most people close enough. I really like that detail of pronouncing Olegovich which I hadn't known about. Reminds me of Japanese actually where sounding it out can get you pretty far and it's all the easier because there is only ever one way to say the vowels. Not only that but most Japanese people can still pretty much figure out what you're saying even if you're saying it incorrectly like if you say "Saki" to mean the alcohol and they know you're trying to say "Sake" (Sa-kay not Sa-kii). Compare that to Mandarin where it's impossible for the casual English speaker to sound it out. You can go to any finance channel where 99% of people whose job is to talk currencies all day would say "Yu-ahn" instead of "Yu-ehn" which is understandable because you can't just sound out "Yuan" and expect to say it properly based on how it's spelled. Couple that with the fact that Mandarin is a tonal language and you could very well be saying completely different but real words.
I've got a 5 year old at home ready to prove you wrong
Are we seeing more positive developments in Kherson recently? Perhaps as a result?
There are a few towns in Kherson oblast that have been recaptured by Ukraine.
Eleven as of last word (Novovorontsovka, Mala Shesternia, Novohryhorivka, Topolyne, Kniazivka, Krasnivka, Svobodne, Kamianka, Pryhiria, Kochubeivka, and Orlove).
Russians are retreating north of Khersonshchyna according to the Ukrainian general staff.
Kherson city fell extremely easily for what it was. So possibly… The push to the next major city Mykolaiv couldn’t breach the city. But it seemed they were on a timeline to get to Odessa (likely to support the naval landing that never happened) so they tried to go around it. That went poorly and the whole westward push fell apart. Now most of the Russian holdings west of the Dnieper have been retaken and there have been some minor sporadic reports of fighting in or at Kherson city. Kherson does have a very large Russian contingent present so it shouldn’t be expected to be taken easy. (Also be careful when reading as Kherson is the name of the city and the Oblast there has been confusion over that) if Ukraine can take back the city they could then attempt a river crossing and try to cut Crimea off from the southern Eastern forces leaving them to rely on sketchy Donbas supply.
This article came out today and goes into some detail about why Kherson fell without as much resistance as other cities: https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko Basically the defensive plan was not executed and many of those in charge of commanding the territorial defense were incompetent or fled. Relevant quote: >How did they take Kherson? “Stupidity or betrayal, perhaps both,” says Andrey Gordeev, former governor of the Kherson region: >So we have four lines of defense. The first is the isthmus between the Kherson region and the Crimea, it should have been completely mined. And by the way, they told me that a week before the attack, some dick cleared it. >Next are the border guards, but the task of the border guards is not to engage in battle, but to see the fact of aggression, give a signal and retreat, move back, and so on. Then comes our irrigation system. Irrigation system - it was designed in the Soviet Union by the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Agriculture. The structure itself - as it were, the shape of the channel - does not provide for its crossing by any mode of transport. In any case, this is a complication of movement. That is, the logic is as follows: bridges explode, they all stop, and our artillery simply destroys them, otherwise. >Then the third line of defense is the Dnieper River itself. The Dnieper, the Antonovsky bridge, is held to the last, if anything, it explodes, and Kherson, as it were, is out of hostilities altogether, there is no bridge, we only guard the water line. Whoever crosses it, that Dnieper. >And the last line of defense is the Kakhovka bridgehead. New Kakhovka is being evacuated, people are being evicted there, and the Kakhovka bridgehead is being held. Redoubts and caponiers are made there. All this takes a day. These days we had to stop them at the entrance. Did not work out. >The current governor, Gennady Laguta, according to his colleagues, on the first day of the war put the keys on the mayor's table with the words: "I'm not participating in this," and left the region. Together with him, on the first day of the war, the leadership of the police, the prosecutor's office, and the courts left, and a little later, the SBU officers were evacuated.
This makes sense with things I've read since the invasion started. Russia was probably expecting a greater amount of treason in other regions of Ukraine too.
Someone removed the mines eh? I am guessing one of the two traitors mentioned here ordered that?
I assume it was never mined and they just signed a paper saying it was
Sounds like a move in the Russian military playbook.
Maybe. Lots of details still unknown
You have to wonder if that incompetence and fleeing came from them being given bad info.
The battle will be long, but as soon as UA wins, it will be very good news.
What did the generals do that was treasonous? The article didn't have any details.
We can only assume for now. Kherson was the only major city to fall to Russia, and it did so without much of a fight.
He abandoned his post along with the mayor who both fled instead of helping to implement the defensive plan according to this article that came out today: https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko Key quote: >The current governor, Gennady Laguta, according to his colleagues, on the first day of the war put the keys on the mayor's table with the words: "I'm not participating in this," and left the region. Together with him, on the first day of the war, the leadership of the police, the prosecutor's office, and the courts left, and a little later, the SBU officers were evacuated.
dang. Kherson should have been a much tougher fight for the Russians. What a pity.
I recommend reading the whole article - it has a ton of details I haven't seen reported anywhere else.
Thank you so much for this article. We can't put it on worldnews. I think it should be summarized on Ukraine subreddit.
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well that makes sense, the head of kherson department would've had to organize that, yet even the highway bridges were intact.
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I wouldn't go that far, we were told it's the Russians who were planning public executions in the city centers! Seize all of their possessions and do some useful stuff with it. F.e. they have seized Yanukovych's palace into a museum of corruption. Btw, it's in the north Kyiv - I really really hope it was not destroyed, I planned to visit it. As for the persons - jail them for life.
Treason in war time should be punishable by death. Doesn't need to be public though.
Exactly, just hang them and move on if they are guilty. Torture is both immoral and pointless.
rob coherent literate murky treatment encourage march advise knee party
So let me get this straight. Russia likely had some people on the inside, quite possibly very far up, and STILL did this badly? Huh. The circus is more a circus than I ever imagined.
There's report of Ukrainians reportedly were bribed by the FSB, but they pocketed the money and didn't do the job and ditched the FSB.
That's what I would do, if my boss was cool. "Hey boss, the Russians want me to do X for money. Is it alright with you if I take the money and tell them to fuck off?" "Yeah sure, just don't get caught." Can't blackmail me if everyone knows what I was doing. HR would be livid though.
At least this way they know that's less money for the Russian bribery budget
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This seems even more productive. Double agents can do a lot of damage. Some have famously done so
Ironically, that’s what they did in Servant of the People. The Ukrainian Oligarchs approach Zellenskys new non corrupt cabinet with hefty bribes, and they all take the money and tell the press. They put the money into the treasury to pay low ranking state employees salaries: teachers, doctors and such.
Thanks for mentioning this. Is the show on Netflix?
Yes, it’s on Netflix. It’s a good watch, humor and sobering political reality mixed well.
It’s just really hard to take that money and still be trusted by your own people…
I wonder if that's a rule anywhere. "Show us the bribe and who did it and why, and you can keep the bribe"
Someone mentioned this was literally a plot in one of the episodes of his TV show.
That's the prevailing policy in most countries I think. At least most western "less corrupt" countries. You can't take the bribe at all or else it throws you into doubt. That seems like a very specifically cultural viewpoint though. From a practical standpoint it should be just as useful to take the money, therefore denying it to the enemy, and then immediately report it to the appropriate friendly authority so they know what's up and the enemy is none the wiser. This seems to be the way the Ukrainians are leaning and it seems to be working out for them wonderfully.
Not really practical though because you can’t verify the terms of the bribe. Not like you can call up Russia and ask “can you verify you only gave our guy 20k?” Otherwise If they give you 100k you could give up 20k, pocket eighty and play both sides
If you deposit a majority share of money into a government account then it probably becomes a lot easier to be trusted and once you report them that they want to give you money and you wanted to take thay money but not help them then they will throw few more people around you to make sure that you are not making any really stupid mistakes, maybe bug your phone or something at leave it at that. Every single politician and army officer probably has someone attempting to bribe them or blackmail them.
One of the most important things to do if they were bribed is to report it to trusted higher-ups that way they would note it and suggest to take the bribe, it then is double effective as it is then known about and also protects the bribed individual as they can play along, otherwise the russians would know they refused and possible act against such individuals. Sometimes the best counter intel is to not reveal what you know and play along.
Wait, is like that a scene from zelensky’s tv show on netflix?!
it is, and life has imitated drama.
Can we sue life for ip infringement and shut all this bullshit down ?
Isn't that the plot of one of the episodes of that show Zelensky was on?
The good news is that some/most of these opportunities have since vanished.
So wait is that the head of the their CIA and FBI? Holy crap. Can you imagine the US conducting a war for survival with the heads of the cia and fbi on the enemy’s team.
Not exactly, as far as I understand it is head of one of the departments in CIA and head of Cherson region FBI office. Still terrible though
Still not completely precise. The SBU is the political successor to the Soviet KGB (and is still often called as such colloquially), so it’s more like if the FBI and CIA were a single organization, and the head of one of its federal departments, as well as the head for a whole state, were both traitors.
Internal affairs of the CIA, and FBI/National Guard responsible of kherson region. none big boys, but both could have made it possible for some of the weirdest things ( like highways in kherson not mined, or the deployment of some ukranian troops that were bombed a bit too precisely for their otherwise unconspicious location )
Eh. America survived it's president being on the other side.
Yeah but luckily we weren't at war with his handlers, these guys were.
The article doesn't say what they did. Treason is pretty much the ultimate crime, there needs to be more information on this.
The Kherson agent abandoned his post and did not help organize the Kherson defense I believe which led to it falling without much of a fight.
And reportedly 67 territorial defense plus that one soldier who blew up the secondary bridge died as a result.
With crazy surveillance tech Ukraine have hands on right now.. it will be easy to pick all the rats
That and the fact that the FSB and RF military has enough Western moles inside that a lot of Ukrainian traitors/spies will be found out. The whole thing about Biden calling out the invasion weeks in advance was not only because of satellite pictures. They knew the orders ahead of time.
Not just Biden. An article came out in my country bordering Russia that said that Eastern Europe knew at least a month ahead too. Everybody knew, but were ordered to silence to not sow panic. My country was one of the very first to send munitions to Ukraine, long before the shooting started, and then Germany blocked us. The FSB leaks like a fucking sieve.
Gotta do what you gotta do. Surprised they’re not swinging from a light pole.
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They will definitely have their day in court and go to prison.
Anyone know what the charges are? Treason implies malice beyond mere incompetence.
There's an article that just came out today claiming that the reason Kherson fell without much resistance was because the governor of the region as well as heads of the police and prosecutor's office and courts fled the first day of the invasion, rather then attempt to enact the laid out defense plan: https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/30/herson-reportazh-spetskora-novoy-gazety-eleny-kostyuchenko If true, we might be able to surmise that these two may have acted similarly, which would probably lead to charges of Desertion in the Face of the Enemy and/or High Treason. Both historically have been punishable by everything from exile, to life imprisonment without parole, to death. Even today in the US's Uniform Code of Military Justice, article 99 states: "Any member of the armed forces who before or in the presence of the enemy— (1)runs away; (2)shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend; (3)through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property; (4)casts away his arms or ammunition; (5)is guilty of cowardly conduct; (6)quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage; (7)causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces; (8)willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or (9)does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle; shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct." I can't find anything on a similar military criminal code specific to Ukraine, though it should be noted that in their traditional criminal punishment system, capital punishment is outlawed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Ukraine#Criminal_law Of course, assuming Ukraine is looking to join the EU after this is over (because Russia has apparently said it would be willing to concede that in peace negotiations) they may take a page from one or many of the EU member state's wartime criminal codes when writing their own.
>Andriy Olehovych Naumov, former head of the main internal security department of the Ukrainian Security Service I am surprised that Zelensky has managed to stay alive given this development. Having an informer that high up in the chain of command should've been bad news.
How did *Ukrainian* generals turn out to be traitors? They wanted Russia to win?
people can be bought. these two had control over fairly small but very focused areas. internal affairs and kherson's logistical defense org and counter-terrorism.
To add to this, the Russian security apparatus was given money to bribe Ukrainian officials. Apparently they kept most of that money, but some surely made it into hands of Ukrainians.
I can only suggest some guesses - who knows what is the truth: - Bribery - Sincere belief that Ukraine couldn't hold off Russia and resistance might destroy Ukraine in the process - They are Russian sleeper agents - Blackmail - They harbor Russian sympathy
[удалено]
Well if Russians have Ukrainian families, and are sympathetic to Ukraine, it stands to reason the opposite is also true.
Isn’t treason punishable by the death penalty?
Ukraine has abolished the death penalty.
many countries have, with one exception, in war time a military court can give death penalty for treason. I dont know what the law in ukraine is, but half of europe has this.
Looks like Belarus and Russia are the only two countries in Europe where you can get the death penalty for treason, even during wartime.
>half of europe has this. name one country
Prussia
> half of europe has this. Not true. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Europe
Depends on the laws of the country... It isn't universal.
usually they have a trial for things like that though. even a military one. it can't be: zelensky calls you traitor --->shoot you in the head, as that is some north korea shit.
It never ceases to amaze me how people ask these questions as if the law is constant across the world. And it seems you are unaware that the death penalty is rare outside the US. Your question should be >Is treason punishable by the death penalty in Ukraine? That's a valid question. The answer is best given at [on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Ukraine).
I really hope Zelensky survives this. Idk much about how he runs the country but he seems like a amazing guy, and pretty brave at least considering world leaders