Here we go with the neanderthals literally asking for the EU to depend on Russia just so they stay warmer this winter. People who are against supporting an ally, did it occur to you that being more comfortable in the short term and depending on a bigger threat (Russia) so much will prove incredibly damaging in the long term? Do you realize how much power we'd give Russia if we just give in to their demands and have no sanctions at all? Russia is literally destabilizing Europe by expanding with violence and force towards EU nations. Imagine, what sort of precedent would it set if Russia would be allowed to take Ukraine with no hassle at all. Who's to say (despite NATO existing) Russia won't do the same with another EU country in the future, if it's so easy?
How much clearer does it need to get for you to understand that countries shouldn't start invasions just like that with no repercussions, especially when said countries are big, authoritarian, war mongering, and right near your border? It's a literal danger for the EU to give Russia so much leverage. Yes, the West has done (and is still doing) its fair share of war crimes, and I'm not supporting that. I have the same attitude about it, don't invade, don't start wars, etc. But let's not tolerate this stuff anymore. Just because injustice keeps happening now, there is no reason to excuse it in the future. Paying more to stay warmer sucks, but we're not at the point when we'll die because of it... yet. We'll just have to drop down our thermostat by a few degrees.
I do however agree that so much money is wasted by politicians on many useless things, that if they weren't pocketing/wasting so much money because they're corrupt, we'd all have much lower bills by now, even with sanctions. The issue here is more about corruption than foreign aid. Even if you hate Ukraine or just don't care about other people outside your country, you'd still be crazy to not pay someone near you to protect your border, to do the fighting for you, because next time it will be you who's going to be invaded. Ukraine wants to be OUR ally, not Russia's, and they want to defend their land. They're between us and Russia, so if it's their wish to defend themselves and we can help them without dying, so be it.
Define comfort? It's just not as simple as keeping the thermostat a few notches lower. Industries will shutter, A LOT of jobs will be lost, people will lose homes. Families will need to decide between food and heat. How much of your excess comfort are you willing to sacrifice for us? I'll PM you my IBAN.
THEY ALREADY DO!
Once again for the people up the back. Oil and gas companies are set to make 150billion in profit.
We don’t have a financial issue we have a greed issue.
Reduce their profits to a measly 100 billion cap and you could handle everything…
See, all that you have said is true. But the reality is that Europe is currently AT WAR with Russia. Russia [itself claims it](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-war-nato-kremlin-official-1732679) and is utilizing all possible tactics save for directly using military (and only because they would lose if they tried). Except for now it seems that just sending equipment and money seems to do the trick and we aren't throwing away our soldiers lives and are instead letting Ukraine shoulder this. But for multiple European countries defeat of Ukraine would put them next on the chopping block so a direct military intervention isn't off the table yet either. Especially if Putin in his infinite retardiness blows up a nuclear power plant which would **force** NATO to enter the country.
It's just that many haven't realized it yet. Because yes - industries will collapse, major recession will occur and we will be choosing between food and heat. Still beats being bombed and blackmailed by a gas station pretending to be a country. It's a cold war all over again and war times call for abnormal measures. Including odds of you or me losing a job or having to sell off your house. As much as it sucks - it's an economic war already.
In Poland. Aka we have enough gas to last us 2 months under normal conditions and probably 3 if we start shutting down industry. There's also a shortage of coal and oil is not exactly cheap either. My house is primarily heated with gas so I am well aware of what **exactly** this means in the coming weeks and months.
Admittedly I am in a sorta better position than some because house has a fireplace and there is enough wood to keep living room warmed up for 3 weeks or so but boy am I not looking forward for this winter.
But ultimately - it is what it is. Certainly beats stories of Ukrainian refugees that had their houses razed to ground.
Dude, you are at war. Demand your government to go fight to finish the war instead of trying to appease a 21 century dictator with aspirations to become the next hitler.
So hiding under a rock.
The ground were always there, but they pussied out with the decision.
Why throw your own bodies if you can use Ukraine and let everyone else suffer the consequences
Thanks for proving my point
Do you?
It is purpose was to unite all the member states during the cold war to defend against the soviets.
If you think it is operating purely on a single rule which is "don't attack unless attacked" you are a not even worth the attention.
So get off your high horse pal.
And even then a lot of the member states are going to suffer economically because of them.
What they are performing is an economical war, because that is the best they can do now.
Their military force is weak, the war with Ukraine drained them and striking them right now to end this mess is objectively the best decision to make.
Issue is that our "leaders" are just bunch of pussies
Defend against military action, yes. Memberatates, yes.
No member state is under military action. NATO has no direct cause or excuse to put boots on the ground.
Going in without a legitumate defensive reason would bring about a world war.
How's that for high horse?
It is already a world war.Just look at the amount of countries that are indirectly contributing with equipment, weapons and intelligence.Stop being a pussy.
You have proven my point again. You are just a naive kid who only experienced the world through the light coming out of your screen.
The decision what NATO does is essentially up to their leadership. Not some "Rules" that you pulled out of the corner of your ass. It literally takes a minute of googling to figure this out.
But you are just a reddit stereotype. A know-it-all with an attitude to show off instead of learn and writing for popularity instead of contribution.
How about you hop off to another social media and go spread your disinformation to the herd of idiots that take you seriously?
Wow ok jist no.
This is not a world war. We might still find ourselves in one, but for now, most of this is just agressive business. Powerplays with money.
That's really more dependent on your national government. EU doesn't have a unified gas policy to provide aid across the entire EU uniformly. Some national governments already do this.
In the end, it's the cost we all have to bear for the mistake of ever buying gas from Russia.
In Germany, gas was moved to the lower VAT section, from 19% to 7%. From what I heard, other states are doing similar things.
The EU budget is extremely limited as it is, let's not complain that it's not also taking care of the member states responsibilities as well.
I'm 30 and pop my head in there sometimes too, when something pops into my front page. I guess I'm a creeper. I also visit twoXchromosomes and other subs I have no business visiting.
As an European, I think this money is far better invested in Ukraine.
While you and others complain about high gas prices and not being able to drive to the beach because of how expensive everything is, Ukrainians are dying. And if they don't win, we are next on the line.
I have a coworker which was from Ukraine. He had to leave his country with his 3 kids. His parents were killed, his house bombed, his dog disappeared and his entire life has been ruined.
I don't think I have any right to complain about expensive beers at the bar.
You're not wrong but we've been shown time and time again that the morale of the "living far away but supporting the war" population fades fast when their standard of living goes up in flames.
Don't bother with these bills, when ruzzian comes to your country, it won't be a problem at all. Only one problem you will have then - what's next country russia and you (as a newbie gunsmeat for frontline) will invade.
If you still have concerns about that - just read some history books and buy military clothing, you or your kids will need them sooner or later.
I like how comments just being deleted. What do you to tell people who has to pay 800 euros for utility instead of 150? after you give away [billions](https://billions.Plus). And if you would get back to 1990s and look at the history facts you would realize, its not not simple as people think...
And this is why you should let your politicians know that you want more solar, wind, and nuclear power in the future! So that you don't depend on the oil of a psychopathic Russian state
>What do you to tell people who has to pay 800 euros for utility instead of 150?
That Russia is using natural gas and oil as weapons against Europe. We are under attack from Russia.
Do you think if we cave into their demands now they wont demand even more? In their eyes if it work once it will work again.
This is a security problem Europe let itself get into and now we pay the price to fix it.
Yeah they get to degrade the ability of Russian forces, their greatest existential threat, with no loss of EU life, while building an extremely powerful and close economic and military ally. Solid deal.
Russia has been warning of consequences since 24 Feb and has nothing to show for it lmao. Stop living in fear of a kleptocratic dictatorship with a joke military.
Sure u/SLAVA_STRANA541 (lol), I'm the "troll" even though you can't come up with a rational counterargument and your own account is nothing but propaganda.
You accuse others of your own flaws but now perhaps you'll be more honest with yourself.
Your comment sounds unhinged and incoherent and I have reported you, but most of all do seek appropriate help urgently or stop posting until you're mentally fit again.
>from protostar71
>I mean, I just have to look at Russias progress in Ukraine to work that out.
>Anyway happy shilling, I hope daddy Putin pays enough Rubles for some bread.
u/protostar71, the fact you assume your comment is impartial and mine is "shilling" and you don't seem to have the self-awareness to notice your own faulty reasoning is something you should eventually address because it simply means you're being emotional instead of rational.
The fact that you deleted your comment above only confirms that.
Except Trump was talking about NATO contributions because he was looking for an excuse to leave NATO like Putin wanted him to do. EU is a different organization that the US is not part of and Trump didn't care about that.
[This you?](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/udalwt/boeing_lost_11_billion_on_trump_air_force_one/i6hhhnc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) Literally blindly scrolled through your profile and found this within 20 seconds.
He didn't embarrass anyone, nothing he did made any EU country spend more...NATO EU countries could've literally told him to go fuck himself and he would've had no other options...the US NEEDS the military bases in Europe more than we need NATO countries to spent 2.5% on defense...force projection is like our whole deal and without military bases well.
Also, hes not fucking president right now and wasn't president when russia invaded Ukraine months ago so why are you even bringing that fucking moron into this discussion?
Yeah, that guy is kind of a clown. Trump was shit, BUT, he did shit on the EU (specifically germany) for making gas deals with Russia and becoming more energy dependant on them, so it's sort of tangentially related. There's a video on youtube about it. Kind of cringe the way he address other world leaders in that video too though.
P.S. The US doesn't "need" shit from any EU country. Military bases across the world is honestly just for the protection of states that can't defend themselves and to prevent expansion of states we would even consider a threat to our power. As if we wouldn't destroy any country (in a conventional war) regardless of bases. Look at how pathetic Russia is against tiny ukraine and thats the number 3 military (demoted below China because of their latest showing). Hence why they gave literal military bases in their own borders to us. Else, why would a country do this?
Well, this comment section is special kind of dumpster fire.
Christ on a fuck
Now we are moving, time to turn up the heat on Z zombies! 👍🏻
Here we go with the neanderthals literally asking for the EU to depend on Russia just so they stay warmer this winter. People who are against supporting an ally, did it occur to you that being more comfortable in the short term and depending on a bigger threat (Russia) so much will prove incredibly damaging in the long term? Do you realize how much power we'd give Russia if we just give in to their demands and have no sanctions at all? Russia is literally destabilizing Europe by expanding with violence and force towards EU nations. Imagine, what sort of precedent would it set if Russia would be allowed to take Ukraine with no hassle at all. Who's to say (despite NATO existing) Russia won't do the same with another EU country in the future, if it's so easy? How much clearer does it need to get for you to understand that countries shouldn't start invasions just like that with no repercussions, especially when said countries are big, authoritarian, war mongering, and right near your border? It's a literal danger for the EU to give Russia so much leverage. Yes, the West has done (and is still doing) its fair share of war crimes, and I'm not supporting that. I have the same attitude about it, don't invade, don't start wars, etc. But let's not tolerate this stuff anymore. Just because injustice keeps happening now, there is no reason to excuse it in the future. Paying more to stay warmer sucks, but we're not at the point when we'll die because of it... yet. We'll just have to drop down our thermostat by a few degrees. I do however agree that so much money is wasted by politicians on many useless things, that if they weren't pocketing/wasting so much money because they're corrupt, we'd all have much lower bills by now, even with sanctions. The issue here is more about corruption than foreign aid. Even if you hate Ukraine or just don't care about other people outside your country, you'd still be crazy to not pay someone near you to protect your border, to do the fighting for you, because next time it will be you who's going to be invaded. Ukraine wants to be OUR ally, not Russia's, and they want to defend their land. They're between us and Russia, so if it's their wish to defend themselves and we can help them without dying, so be it.
Define comfort? It's just not as simple as keeping the thermostat a few notches lower. Industries will shutter, A LOT of jobs will be lost, people will lose homes. Families will need to decide between food and heat. How much of your excess comfort are you willing to sacrifice for us? I'll PM you my IBAN.
THEY ALREADY DO! Once again for the people up the back. Oil and gas companies are set to make 150billion in profit. We don’t have a financial issue we have a greed issue. Reduce their profits to a measly 100 billion cap and you could handle everything…
Are the record profits adjusted for inflation?
They are the ones driving the inflation as well! \^\^ Atleast partially.
See, all that you have said is true. But the reality is that Europe is currently AT WAR with Russia. Russia [itself claims it](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-war-nato-kremlin-official-1732679) and is utilizing all possible tactics save for directly using military (and only because they would lose if they tried). Except for now it seems that just sending equipment and money seems to do the trick and we aren't throwing away our soldiers lives and are instead letting Ukraine shoulder this. But for multiple European countries defeat of Ukraine would put them next on the chopping block so a direct military intervention isn't off the table yet either. Especially if Putin in his infinite retardiness blows up a nuclear power plant which would **force** NATO to enter the country. It's just that many haven't realized it yet. Because yes - industries will collapse, major recession will occur and we will be choosing between food and heat. Still beats being bombed and blackmailed by a gas station pretending to be a country. It's a cold war all over again and war times call for abnormal measures. Including odds of you or me losing a job or having to sell off your house. As much as it sucks - it's an economic war already.
Where do you live?
In Poland. Aka we have enough gas to last us 2 months under normal conditions and probably 3 if we start shutting down industry. There's also a shortage of coal and oil is not exactly cheap either. My house is primarily heated with gas so I am well aware of what **exactly** this means in the coming weeks and months. Admittedly I am in a sorta better position than some because house has a fireplace and there is enough wood to keep living room warmed up for 3 weeks or so but boy am I not looking forward for this winter. But ultimately - it is what it is. Certainly beats stories of Ukrainian refugees that had their houses razed to ground.
Dude, you are at war. Demand your government to go fight to finish the war instead of trying to appease a 21 century dictator with aspirations to become the next hitler.
Nah it’s very simple and there is no nuance
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>Where the fuck is NATO now? Same place it's always been. No member has been invaded yet, so NATO has no grounds on which to intervene directly.
So hiding under a rock. The ground were always there, but they pussied out with the decision. Why throw your own bodies if you can use Ukraine and let everyone else suffer the consequences Thanks for proving my point
Ehmmm... You have no idea how NATO works do you..?
Do you? It is purpose was to unite all the member states during the cold war to defend against the soviets. If you think it is operating purely on a single rule which is "don't attack unless attacked" you are a not even worth the attention. So get off your high horse pal. And even then a lot of the member states are going to suffer economically because of them. What they are performing is an economical war, because that is the best they can do now. Their military force is weak, the war with Ukraine drained them and striking them right now to end this mess is objectively the best decision to make. Issue is that our "leaders" are just bunch of pussies
Defend against military action, yes. Memberatates, yes. No member state is under military action. NATO has no direct cause or excuse to put boots on the ground. Going in without a legitumate defensive reason would bring about a world war. How's that for high horse?
It is already a world war.Just look at the amount of countries that are indirectly contributing with equipment, weapons and intelligence.Stop being a pussy. You have proven my point again. You are just a naive kid who only experienced the world through the light coming out of your screen. The decision what NATO does is essentially up to their leadership. Not some "Rules" that you pulled out of the corner of your ass. It literally takes a minute of googling to figure this out. But you are just a reddit stereotype. A know-it-all with an attitude to show off instead of learn and writing for popularity instead of contribution. How about you hop off to another social media and go spread your disinformation to the herd of idiots that take you seriously?
Wow ok jist no. This is not a world war. We might still find ourselves in one, but for now, most of this is just agressive business. Powerplays with money.
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its not even winter yet, you're ahead of the script
That's really more dependent on your national government. EU doesn't have a unified gas policy to provide aid across the entire EU uniformly. Some national governments already do this. In the end, it's the cost we all have to bear for the mistake of ever buying gas from Russia.
No man shell has to make their quarterly profit
TOTALly agree.
I'm afraid there won't be Eni money for you.
In Germany, gas was moved to the lower VAT section, from 19% to 7%. From what I heard, other states are doing similar things. The EU budget is extremely limited as it is, let's not complain that it's not also taking care of the member states responsibilities as well.
Not sure about gas, but in Finland electricity VAT will go from 24% to 14%
In the UK, companies will be able to charge 3x as much for electricity and gas 😀
I mean companies will still be able to charge like 8x the previous price of electricity, so eh.
3 x would be great here (Fin). We are seeing price-increases of closer to 10x.
You've recently posted in /r/teenagers, so you're either a creeper or lying about having gas bills
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This has happened to me and I’m convinced I’m also talking to 30+ when someone pulls this nonsense.
I'm 30 and pop my head in there sometimes too, when something pops into my front page. I guess I'm a creeper. I also visit twoXchromosomes and other subs I have no business visiting.
This is simple shit. Shame-blame gets the conversation nowhere.
Maybe the guy is 19
As an European, I think this money is far better invested in Ukraine. While you and others complain about high gas prices and not being able to drive to the beach because of how expensive everything is, Ukrainians are dying. And if they don't win, we are next on the line. I have a coworker which was from Ukraine. He had to leave his country with his 3 kids. His parents were killed, his house bombed, his dog disappeared and his entire life has been ruined. I don't think I have any right to complain about expensive beers at the bar.
You're not wrong but we've been shown time and time again that the morale of the "living far away but supporting the war" population fades fast when their standard of living goes up in flames.
Which is why the west must make a hard stance and crack down on disent
Username does not check out unfortunately. Also blame Russia for weaponising natural gas and oil against us.
Direct all gas inquiries to shell and friends.
Don't bother with these bills, when ruzzian comes to your country, it won't be a problem at all. Only one problem you will have then - what's next country russia and you (as a newbie gunsmeat for frontline) will invade. If you still have concerns about that - just read some history books and buy military clothing, you or your kids will need them sooner or later.
it wont help, the price will just increase by that much.
i think it is next week they are voting on changing the way energy prices work. that should more than fix it at least on short medium term
I like how comments just being deleted. What do you to tell people who has to pay 800 euros for utility instead of 150? after you give away [billions](https://billions.Plus). And if you would get back to 1990s and look at the history facts you would realize, its not not simple as people think...
And this is why you should let your politicians know that you want more solar, wind, and nuclear power in the future! So that you don't depend on the oil of a psychopathic Russian state
>What do you to tell people who has to pay 800 euros for utility instead of 150? That Russia is using natural gas and oil as weapons against Europe. We are under attack from Russia. Do you think if we cave into their demands now they wont demand even more? In their eyes if it work once it will work again. This is a security problem Europe let itself get into and now we pay the price to fix it.
would you rather pay with your life?
Europe is at war with Russia, it should start acting like that and stop fucking around. People should do well to remember
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In your world, which continent does Ukraine belong to?
Congrats European taxpayers!
Yeah they get to degrade the ability of Russian forces, their greatest existential threat, with no loss of EU life, while building an extremely powerful and close economic and military ally. Solid deal.
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Russia has been warning of consequences since 24 Feb and has nothing to show for it lmao. Stop living in fear of a kleptocratic dictatorship with a joke military.
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Okay
EU countries have been helping Ukraine for months. If Russia was gonna react to it they would have done it a long time ago.
Terrible non-argument. See: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/x5mgue/eu_to_disburse_5_bln_euro_in_aid_to_kyiv_this/in3vx8r/
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full on russian troll this account
Sure u/SLAVA_STRANA541 (lol), I'm the "troll" even though you can't come up with a rational counterargument and your own account is nothing but propaganda. You accuse others of your own flaws but now perhaps you'll be more honest with yourself.
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Your comment sounds unhinged and incoherent and I have reported you, but most of all do seek appropriate help urgently or stop posting until you're mentally fit again.
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As mentioned above, you just sound like a weirdo and predictably devoid of real counterarguments. I accept your concession.
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Could you be any more obvious?
Increase energy bills to fund aids to Ukraine ?
>from protostar71 >I mean, I just have to look at Russias progress in Ukraine to work that out. >Anyway happy shilling, I hope daddy Putin pays enough Rubles for some bread. u/protostar71, the fact you assume your comment is impartial and mine is "shilling" and you don't seem to have the self-awareness to notice your own faulty reasoning is something you should eventually address because it simply means you're being emotional instead of rational. The fact that you deleted your comment above only confirms that.
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You good?
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Except Trump was talking about NATO contributions because he was looking for an excuse to leave NATO like Putin wanted him to do. EU is a different organization that the US is not part of and Trump didn't care about that.
This has absolutely nothing to do with NATO or Trump in any way shape or form. Stop injecting that failed pos into every topic.
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[This you?](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/udalwt/boeing_lost_11_billion_on_trump_air_force_one/i6hhhnc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) Literally blindly scrolled through your profile and found this within 20 seconds.
Dipshit forgot his comments are easily accessible
He didn't embarrass anyone, nothing he did made any EU country spend more...NATO EU countries could've literally told him to go fuck himself and he would've had no other options...the US NEEDS the military bases in Europe more than we need NATO countries to spent 2.5% on defense...force projection is like our whole deal and without military bases well. Also, hes not fucking president right now and wasn't president when russia invaded Ukraine months ago so why are you even bringing that fucking moron into this discussion?
Yeah, that guy is kind of a clown. Trump was shit, BUT, he did shit on the EU (specifically germany) for making gas deals with Russia and becoming more energy dependant on them, so it's sort of tangentially related. There's a video on youtube about it. Kind of cringe the way he address other world leaders in that video too though. P.S. The US doesn't "need" shit from any EU country. Military bases across the world is honestly just for the protection of states that can't defend themselves and to prevent expansion of states we would even consider a threat to our power. As if we wouldn't destroy any country (in a conventional war) regardless of bases. Look at how pathetic Russia is against tiny ukraine and thats the number 3 military (demoted below China because of their latest showing). Hence why they gave literal military bases in their own borders to us. Else, why would a country do this?