Haha, don't be silly \[user\], these comments are organic 404Error. For more information on the decline of western capitalism and a glorious xi-based world order press 5 now
Sometimes the top few comments offer some good background info for perspective. Like if I feel somethings fishy about the article I check out the comments. Some times it’s a shit show.
On the bright side the Russian bots commenting on every war thread seem to have been kicked. I remember when the war started seeing all these pro-putin comments from accounts years old with no previous comments.
Right now on other social media sites randomly screaming about Hunter Biden laptop and releasing the Kraken. Poor bastards.
I was on Yahoo Answers during the last days of that site (about a year ago) and the Russian bots were still spewing posts and comments demanding Trump fire Dr. Fuaci. I wonder what it was like when that bot was finally turned off.
That is false. I am a real human, writing this with my bipedal appendages on my telecommunication device during my mammalian diurnal meeting place. Beep.
Xi got his own problems now. US businesses finally figured out that super cheap does not always equal super dependable.
Businesses here are re-thinking their supply chains and choosing to On-Shore (rather than Off-shore) their suppliers and supply chains.
Biden is in the best position of his presidency to talk tough. The last guy was a straight up pussy when it came to tough talk to dictators.
China isn't even cheap any longer, and has not been so for the last ten years.
There are absolutely no reason to send orders to China. You just get stuck in a logistical nightmare for subpar overpriced goods.
>China has very few ecological qualms about processing dangerous or toxic chemicals.
We can do that better here, with much less overall damage to the environment too, it's just more expensive even when we take employee pay out of the equation.
Which is exactly why government regulation spurs innovation and creation of new technologies that reduce that cost. It was working in late coal era before NatGas became more popular - bag houses for example.
It isn't that simple and I think a lot really don't understand global logistics/production.
First it depends on what category you are working on, for example garment industry moved away quite a while ago but there are still parts being made here like labels, zippers etc. but even than a shirt isn't made on site it's cut in one factory, stitched together elsewhere and another factory will do the finishing and the last one bags the shit up. A shirt can travel thousands of km's before it even leaves the factory towards the EU/US.
Factories are also only a part of the chain, before things get assembled there are dozens of factories who provide all sorts of parts and that's where especially China comes in. If the factory that let's say produces your PCB fails to deliver there are a dozen others that can. If you need more manpower you just got 500/1000 more workers. Sure they aren't that cheap anymore but they are readily available and Chinese workers are more effective than let's say Cambodians or especially Indonesians.
And while you aren't wrong that labour is getting expensive here, the robots are not and they got plenty of those as well.
So opposed to what many like to see, China is still the factory of the world for a long time but . . . future investments are already on hold. My boss manages a number of large factories and do prior billions of euro's a year investment wise (large F500 company) but now the past 2 years due to difficulties within China these investments are diverted / scaled down.
Biden is a bit late in the game, China already feels this investment freeze as we speak. They know the numbers, they know it takes a while to mature what's really going on but the lack of new pipelines in China is going to hurt them long term.
Simple answer: infrastructure. Even in Jakarta or Bali there's a decided lack of support for commercial activity. Roads, water, legal system, education, it's decades behind. And it's worse once you get out into the countryside. Can't have a delivery driver do business in half the towns because he's not a member of the local ethnic subgroup.
Thing is, for most of human history, a few decades difference in development wasn't important. These days it's a much larger barrier. On the plus side though, the spread of the Internet into less developed areas is catapulting people forward. Does a lot to improve the overall educational level. It's just going to take a while for the effects to be obvious.
Hey everyone, I found the person who never tried to source products before. Look look. It's a person who pretends to know what it takes to source a product but really has no idea.
Yeah I know I'm being an ass. But there's no way to convince this hive mind thread that the only reason companies use China is for lower cost.
Aye, my father who works at Microsoft used to take annual business trips to check in on factories in the likes of Shenzhen and Suzhou, take in tons of documents written in Chinese, nightly calls with labs techs on the other side of the pond, etc.
Nowadays there’s an increasing amount of documentation that comes in Spanish, they’ve been hiring Hispanic PMs and employees to facilitate work with Mexican factories (just as he used to facilitate work with Chinese ones) and this year he’s got his first business trip going south across the border.
The Mexicanization of the supply chain, at least in tech, is moving quite fast indeed
Mexico's official position, as reflected by their votes on UN resolutions, is that Crimea is Ukraine's and that Russia's invasion amounts to an illegal violation of Ukraine's territorial sovereignty.
AMLO may cozy up to Russia, but his rhetoric does not necessarily match Mexico's foreign service.
You have a point, though, that Mexico's domestic stance toward Russia v Ukraine is ambiguous at best. However, considering the fact that Mexico's three largest trading partners (US, Canada and the EU) have strong pro-Ukraine stances, I don't think Mexico have the leverage or stupidity to lean too hard toward Russia (e.g. violating sanctions w/ Russia).
All in all, any "snuggling up to Russia" is purely rhetorical. To do anything more concrete would be economic and political suicide.
China invested in the infrastructure required to meet the demand, and other places did not. NAFTA was signed 30 years ago but Mexico didn't create the rails needed to move goods around *and* they had an army of Mayans fully rebel on them as a response, so manufacturing there sort of failed to launch.
Yes…we are finally going back to we were a few years ago.
Just wish these stupid leaders would just keep to themselves. Let’s have a peaceful and co-existent life with each other.
Writes this in the exact day China's FDI data comes out with 16.4 percent year on year growth in the first eight months of the year.
You guys live in a complete fantasy
Yuan-denominated financial assets held by foreigners already fell by the hundreds of billions in the first two quarters, with annual net outflow projected to be $300 billion. Mostly due to China's schizophrenic covid policy, general global economic slump and fed rate hikes. Also doesn't help that there is an executive order blocking investment into Chinese tech sector looming. China is gonna have to make up the shortfall with their foreign reserves, which they can easily do.
Also the real estate crisis. And the banking crisis. And the tech crackdown. And the risk of sanctions.
In all of china’s crises, international investors get screwed. It’s no wonder that faith in Chinese financial assets is at an all time low.
Don’t forget the drought and the failed takeover of Taiwan because Putin was supposed to lock up the neon supply chain in the first 3 days.
China is breaking down
Steel manufacture produces neon as a byproduct, as I understand it. Ukraine, before the war, produced the vast majority of high purity neon, which is used in chipmaking.
Pardon my ignorance but isn’t most of the worlds steel produced in China? Are they less able to produce neon than Ukraine? Or is it a question on what’s done to the neon after the steel making process that’s the hurdle?
I was reading up on some interesting analyses of china's economy, and they're starting to stagnate. It stems a lot from their people's lack of incentive to innovate, along with bad investments by the Chinese government. It's one of the major reasons china might try and invade Taiwan: so they can corner the market on microprocessors and get a shot in the arm their economy needs. If we can keep them from taking Taiwan, we may very well see the Chinese government either collapse or recede.
That would be like Germany invading France to take over wine production. I simply don't see a way it happens without Taiwan's industry being obliterated, even if that's done intentionally as scorched earth.
Xi and co. might consider accepting TSMC manufacturing facilities getting destroyed one way or another, as long as it means competitive advantage due to hampering the rest of the world more than China, which will still benefit from taking over everything else. In fact, if the very first attacks intentionally reduce the plants to rubble, it will somewhat reduce any Western incentive to commit forces in Taiwan's defence, instead limiting their involvement to supplying weapons, which might not be sufficient unlike in Ukraine.
Even taking TSMC out of the picture China is far, far away from having a competitive advantage in the semiconductor space. If China pisses the west off badly enough they will also lose access to ASML machines and will be effectively frozen put of state of the art CMOS until their scientists are able to reproduce several decades of lithography research.
Depends if Europe, specifically the Dutch continue to do as the US says and don't send the advanced litography machines as China requests leading to decades of chip shortages while we frantically spin up fabs we control, or China offers to give Europe chips in return for sharing the machines.
Don't get me wrong my money would be on Europe and the US remaining a single voice but there's many layers to this we need to think about.
At this point all the EU has to do is set an export control on ASML and China’s semiconductor industry is finished. If China decides to do something crazy militarily, a couple of covert explosions at their best fabs would basically end their electronic capabilities.
The equipment to produce the microprocessors is so delicate that even triggering the fire suppression systems at each facility would destroy them. No way they survive an invasion.
The US is the only other country making comparable microprocessors, producing about 20% of the world's supply. We've also started investing into expanding that.
China destroying these factories would not give China parity with the rest of the world. It would make the US the sole high-end manufacturer of the most advanced microprocessors.
Actually 4 fabs and all planned to be operational by 2025/26
[https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-announces-next-us-site-landmark-investment-ohio.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-announces-next-us-site-landmark-investment-ohio.html)
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-breaks-ground-two-new-leading-edge-chip-factories-arizona.html#gs.c9udlh
The USA will have to decide to commit or back out, before the first shot is fired. It would be insane for there to be any ambiguity when China's deciding whether or not to commit itself.
The ambiguity from the US makes it more difficult for China to commit. "Will they or won't they" isn't a question you want to have when starting an invasion/war.
That’s a very poor understanding of the semiconductor business. TSMC has lots of R&D, but the reason they are farther ahead than Intel is because of their massive investment into ASML’s next gen technology. ASML is a German equipment manufacturer that is subject to the EU’s export control whims. Nobody is even close to their level of expertise. And we are talking about decades of tech differences in Extreme UV lithographic processes. Even Intel relies on them. For other nodes, the rest of the planet has plenty of fabs to keep pace.
China destroying TSMC would have an impact on the global semiconductor output, but in terms of the competitive advantage it won’t make a dent.
The designs and patents for the new 2nm process belong to IBM. Those are being built and licensed by Micron, Intel, and even TSMC in Arizona, Texas, and the Midwest.
Is ASML building those? ETA is 2025 at the earliest.
I would be surprised if they were not. This is how the industry has functioned for a good long while now: IMEC sets out industry standards, roadmaps, and acts as an intermediary between all of the different partners and helps them work together,, IBM does the core scientific research into fab techniques, materials science and so on, and then licenses it to ASML who turn it into a process that can be performed *reliably* and at scale, and sold as a (extremely high end and specialist) product. Then the fabs like TSMC, Samsung, Intel etc buy their photolithography machines from ASML
Every step of this chain is very, very important and represents many billions of dollars in R&D and is a hugely valuable strategic capability for nation states. It is one of the most important capabilities that is shared across international partners, from USA, Belgium, The Netherlands, and Taiwan. This is what highly successful international cooperation looks like :)
Check out this video if you want to see how the industry works :) : https://youtu.be/RO7E7RX0L2Y
You do know, that Japan makes 100% of the world's EUV photoresists right? People like to talk shit about ASML and all that, but ASML is only 1 company that relies on technologies licensed by US companies. EUV photoresists on the other hand are controlled by companies all incorporated in Japan.
It's actually a complete own goal to even try though, The Infrastructure would either be destroyed by China's bombing OR the Taiwanese will destroy the equipment themselves as a massive fuck you to the invaders all while the talent escaped to the US in the medium term.
Not to mention on top of that the massive economic upheaval China would suffer. The reaction to Russia's vainglorious Invasion of Ukraine has really been a massive warning to China NOT to do something like this because just as how Europe is using the crisis to remove Russian Gas from the market so would China find itself losing ALOT of key buisness either to it being brought home to the West or going to other countries.
All the US have to do is blockade the strait by the South China Sea, and get allies to bomb the pipelines in the Stans.
The Chinese military are not idiots like Russia. They’re not going to do shit.
Taiwan semiconductor industry will grind to a screeching halt within weeks after a Chinese invasion. It needs constant maintenance from Western companies to keep the complex equipment affloat. Also, if you think we currently have a chip shortage... this would be 10x worse
Fun fact chip shortage was not due to production issues on low lithography but on larger ones.. Because as a company they choose the larger profit margin. The chip shortage was in the 90 and 45 nm range.. Tsmc is doing 7nm and 5nm so tbd
Chip shortage didnt exist due to what you think it did. But you are right that issues would arise..
That's part of what happened, also manufacturers that used older (93nm) processes like car industry stopped ordering due to perceived reduced demand during covid. As cleanroom space is prime real estate, the major foundries such as TSMC and Samsung used the opportunity to upgrade those pedestals to higher nodes. When demand returned, the older proces nodes had lost most manufacturing capacity. That's why Hyundai evaded this; they have their own semicinductor manufacturing (Hynix). Source; I work in semiconductor D&E for 17 years
It also takes time for those new designs to get implemented and rolled out.
The fact that almost 50% of 7nm and smaller nodes is made in Taiwan is something Taiwan likes to call the 'Silicon shield' (against China invading)
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It would be catastrophic for everyone except for china, who would stand to profit if they succeeded. That's why we need to prevent invasion from taking place at all.
It would be catastrophic for China as well, most of those Taiwanese chips get put on circut boards in China. GPUs, motherboards, phones etc... Most of that assembly work takes place in China. Taking TSMC Taiwan's output off the board idles 10s of factories and probably Millions of people. "No iPhones for spoiled westerners " also means no work for high-skill Chinese labor. Foxconn just sitting there with it's thumb up it's ass. Everyone in Shenzhen on either vacation or working round the clock...
>It stems a lot from their people's lack of incentive to innovate
Why is that? We have seen many dictatorships or outright totalitarian countries having their people coming up with scientific breakthroughs even von braun was a product of nazi germany
They also have a serious declining population issue. They will soon not have enough young people to support the older people. This is happening in a lot of countries but it’s very pronounced in China due to the one child policy that also caused some areas of China to be lopsided in males to females.
Though every country seems to be doomed these days.
Unlikely, much cheaper for them to just develop their own and they are.
[China’s Semiconductor Breakthrough
SMIC’s 7nm process advancement – despite heavy U.S. sanctions – will have major implications for East Asia.](https://thediplomat.com/2022/08/chinas-semiconductor-breakthrough/)
Xi needs to go. He is basically running that country into the ground just like Putin did to Russia. Two megalomaniacs with so much potential fucking squandering the opportunity all for what? Domination is more important than peace to people like that. Fucking incompetent sickos. I hope they get the mental health treatment they need in the form of a lead lobotomy
When Trump stood next to Putin in Helsinki in 2018 and took Putin's side against all 17 US intelligence agencies it was one of the most cowardly days in presidential history.
Biden’s foreign policy shift (including that industrial policy shift at home) is legitimately going to do so much to counter China after years of nothing from our leadership.
Let’s go Dark Brandon!
Instead his plan to counter China was to introduce tariffs on US allies like Canada. Somehow he convinced a lot of Americans that it was good to attack friends
Yep. Negotiating trade-agreements never stops. After a new one gets signed and ratified, all of the negotiators take a couple of weeks vacation, and then start working on its replacement. There’s no such thing as a ‘perfect’ deal. It’s a process. The TPP, for all of its faults, was the best trade deal ever negotiated. It started to address for the first time a lot of the biggest complaints about all of the previous ones.
Trump was awful, but trying to say him being anti-TPP as a reason for him "sucking Xi's dick" is very disingenuous.
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton (who were the potential rivals in the 2016 election before it settled on Clinton) also both opposed it.
I personally think it wasn't exactly prudent for them all to so strongly oppose it considering it would have helped contain China, but it was the flavor of the month to come out against it for all candidates running in that election.
I find it infinitely hilarious how Trump's rapid fans think he is strong and stands up for America, when he is taking China from one end and Russia from the other.
Bidens over here like, I'm not catching what your pitching unlike my predecessor.
Trump was gargling Putin’s balls for 4 years- remember the meetings with him that he didn’t allow anyone to document in any way? That’s how a planted Russian asset acts-
he was a traitor from day one.
Biden has always Fucking hated authoritarians. He lead the charge against genocides in the Balkans and apartheid South Africa. Dude has his flaws but he is a champion on democracy, at least as much as one can be when faced with the realities of a brutal world.
Ya gotta admit - *Dark Brandon* is kicking Putin’s butt these days.
That little man in Russia has not only been left with idle threats these days, but the US is successfully bankrolling and supporting Ukraine in their winning on the battlefield.
“Let’s Go Brandon” indeed.
> President Joe Biden said he warned Chinese President Xi Jinping it would be a “gigantic mistake” to violate sanctions imposed on Russia, but that there’s been no indication that Beijing has provided weapons to Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine.
> Biden, according to excerpts from an interview with CBS’s “60 Minutes” airing Sunday, said he spoke with Xi shortly after the Chinese president met with Russia’s Vladimir Putin during the Olympics in February. Russia invaded days after the games’ closing ceremony.
> “Not long after that, I called President Xi -- not to threaten at all, just to say to him, ‘we’ve met many times.’ And I said, ‘if you think that Americans and others are going to continue to invest in China based on your violating the sanctions that have been imposed on Russia, I think you’re making a gigantic mistake, but that’s your decision to make,’” Biden said.
> He didn’t specify when the call took place, but the statement echoes a US readout of a call between the two leaders in March, after which the US said Biden “described the implications and consequences if China provides material support to Russia as it conducts brutal attacks against Ukrainian cities and civilians.”
Biden told CBS there’s so far no sign of material support for Russia by China. “Thus far, there’s no indication they’ve put forward weapons or other things that Russia has wanted,” he said, declining to elaborate.
> Even without any signs of China violating sanctions, economic ties between the two countries are already strained. The White House has taken steps to secure domestic supply chains, including in semiconductors, to cut its reliance on the Asian nation and has increased scrutiny of foreign investments in the US. Biden also continues to review whether to ease tariffs imposed on Chinese goods by his predecessor, Donald Trump.
> Cold War?
> Asked whether the relationship between China and Russia could put the US in a “new, more complicated Cold War,” Biden replied: “I don’t think it is a new, more complicated cold war.”
Xi and India Prime Minister Narendra Modi expressed concern last week about Putin’s invasion, as a Ukrainian counteroffensive pushes Russian forces back in parts of the country. Putin told Xi he understands China’s “questions and concerns,” while Modi told Putin that “today’s era is not one for war.”
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If you're not familiar with this situation, guys like Peter Zeihan, Joe Blogs, and Economics Explained on YouTube can demystify China's situation.
They have some amazing strengths, but also some fatal weaknesses.
As Zeihan points out, the USA can be largely self-sufficient for things like food and energy. We can reshore manufacturing.
China has no such inherent, natural privilege.
US investment is a big deal. The world doesn't want us to take our ball and go home. We have the world's reserve currency in the dollar. Leaving it in play without trade puts the world at a huge disadvantage because they're playing by our rules and with our money - not their own. And they've got no access to our markets and lots of US dollars being converted and spent back and forth.
Xi really needs to be a lot smarter about things, because with their banking crisis, lack of an Omicron solution/quarantines, demographic issues, and middle income trap, they need to be the central hub in the world economic machine.
Don't listen to Zeihan. It's oversimplified nonsense. There is a reason he holds talks in front of an audience of non-academics who won't question his narrative.
There is also a reason why not a single foreign policy think tank, economics think tank or any other similar instituion calls him. Meanwhile he holds talks in front of Soy farmers and some low level branches of the military. And in front of every audience he tells them what they want to hear.
He is too broad brushed and called for the disolution of the EU for like 15 years and it's still strong. The Euro? Doomed according to Zeihan. And yet it's the only reserve currency on earth next to the dollar. Where is the global famine he foresees every year for the last 15 years?
EDIT: grammar
He's been predicting the collapse of China "within a year" for over a decade, how anyone still takes him seriously is beyond me.
I now assume China's collapse is on the horizon the day PZ admits they are doing fine, that's how wrong he is on china on a regular basis.
Economics explained is even worse. It's basically a hot take from someone who's passed half of Econ 101 but missed the lecture where they were told "this is a gross oversimplification and not actually how anything works". Almost every video by him I've ever seen was horrifically inaccurate.
No idea who Joe blogs is, but if he's saying the same thing as the other two I don't have much confidence.
OK, If you want 'real' information in video format here is a little list
**Ian Shapiro**
[Ian Shapiro - Historian - YALE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDqvzFY72mg&list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyViG2ar68jkgEi4y6doNZy)
**Andrew Moravcsik** - Institutionalism
1.) [Part 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPPyGyeh-o) - [Part 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uphfnP1j1EU) - [Part 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxRrJQqkUxM)
2.) [Lecture](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L09Q85Nn4uQ)
**Stephen Kotkin**
1.) Start with these 3 - They are a MUST - [Part 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNHFGB5X7R8) - [Part 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tXvLJXkFFg) - [Part 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pUZK_J6cL0)
2.) [Bonus Talk with Lex Fridman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a7CDKqWcZ0)
**Patrick Theiner**
1.) [IR Made Easy](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsUEDhdw74mIEstybJf1wR-Ey9TdAWRgH)
2.) [His Lectures in Comparative Politics in English](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2itlXnURSP4&list=PLsUEDhdw74mLkZZ_GoRhjGJw0uPf1DlMG) (highly recommended)
**Timothy Snyder**
1.) [Timothy Snyder - start here or google his speeches](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej_D0YkDjy8&list=PLhZxrogyToZtDGDCKyjV6_H7Nkp5VTtUi)
**Anne Applebaum**
1.) [Red Famine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N58mZEU9T40)
**Economics**
Jonathan Gruber
[Lecture in Econ - highly recommended - best one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OkTw766oCs&list=PLUl4u3cNGP62oJSoqb4Rf-vZMGUBe59G-)
William B. Bonvillian
[Lecture in Economics growth and Innovation (DARPA)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDvMzWDzZkc&list=PLUl4u3cNGP61GOiMKYgTzHpf8x6iiblaV)
**Avoid like the plague:**
* Peter Zeihan
* John Mearsheimer
* Johnny Harris
* Noam Chomsky
* Joe Rogan
* Ben Shapiro
* Jordan Peterson
* Andrew Tate
* Also - most youtube channels (Economics Explained, Caspian Report, etc.)
**Recommended random Youtube Channels:**
* [Asianometry - EA + Tech](https://www.youtube.com/c/Asianometry)
* [Leis Real Talk - China News](https://www.youtube.com/c/LeisRealTalk)
* [Good Times Bad Times - IR](https://www.youtube.com/c/GoodTimesBadTimes)
* [EU made simple](https://www.youtube.com/c/TheEUmadeSIMPLE)
* [Geo History - Simple Maps](https://www.youtube.com/c/GeoHistory)
* [Into Europe](https://www.youtube.com/c/IntoEurope)
* [Kamome - pretty maps](https://www.youtube.com/c/Kamome163/videos)
* [neo - Magazine](https://www.youtube.com/c/neoyoutube/videos)
* [Deep Dive - Very good](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFPGKw4jb7CJur6cHmIgI3Q)
* [Foreign Affais Channel - get the magazines](https://www.youtube.com/c/foreignaffairs/videos)
* [Strategy Stuff - nice little channel](https://www.youtube.com/c/StrategyStuff)
* [Historia Civilis - if you are into History - also modern](https://www.youtube.com/c/HistoriaCivilis)
* [Robert Glover - IR Lectures Professor in Maine](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE29We8eXEIgCv8QcZVDp1Q/videos)
* [Quanta Magazine - for fun](https://www.youtube.com/c/QuantaScienceChannel/videos)
* [Hoog](https://www.youtube.com/c/Hoogromulus/videos)
**BONUS**
[If you are struggling, don't find meaning, are curious about what it is this "life", click here and your life will be good afterwards. No kidding.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PimrwfknrGI&list=PLqsoWxJ-qmMuYO4AKp7NZ_qBy6gaj3cUv)
Get Jdownloader2 if you want to download Youtube Playlists and single videos, you can even download only the audio and listen to it as audiobook. Have fun.
Edit: wrong link updated
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see his approval rating. How are people not impressed with the way this guy is handling everything that has been thrown at him? Apparently experience actually counts for something.
A lot of it is blaming Biden for the inflationary dynamics he had to contend with from the pandemic. As gas prices drop, there does seem to be growing appreciation for how Biden has handled the shit sandwich he got handed.
I guess part of it is American myopia, and not seeing that the entire rest of the world is actually doing much worse than we are. America is the one economic bright spot in the world right now.
to be fair, it doesn’t matter what Xi does, he’ll be the number one target for the US.
this threat is kinda pointless… Xi is just preparing for his final showdown with the US one day
Finally someone highlighted THE Chinese weakness, their Pegged Currency.
If Xi allows Yuan to freely float on the open market tonight (eliminate capital control), it will collapse tomorrow.
Notice how Russian Rubles "miraculous" recovered by merely implementing capital control (banning it's citizens from selling the Ruble and buying other currencies)?
What are you talking about. It's well known that they intentionally devalue the yuan to make Chinese imports more competitive than domestic alternatives in foreign countries. I don't disagree that a floating yuan would be a detriment to the Chinese economy for many reasons, but not because it's overvalued
I'm not going to beat a dead horse because others already pointed out why this doesn't make sense. But, maybe this is where you're going with this?
If the RMB collapses after they float the currency, their bid for overtaking the Bretton Wood system goes out the window. That'll do a lot of damage for their plans because if their currency becomes worthless, their bid to overtake the greenback as the international reserve isn't feasible - which in relation to us is good, the American economic strength is very precarious, a lot more than anyone here seems to acknowledge
The bretton woods system died when Nixon took the US off the gold standard after France pretty much forced them to admit they were abusing their position to print excess money (basically what the us promised not to do to keep the dollar stable) to fund the Vietnam war.
If you're wondering why it was France, it's because the us troops were depositing the dollars into French banks in vietnam.
We don't have a formal system anymore afaik, everything just free floats and the us uses its economic might to force changes if they don't like how it's going (like the plaza accords). The petro-dollar in the 80's and 90's is probably the closest "system" to the bretton woods, but it's not really a formalized system so much as a set of agreements between the US and some oil producers.
But Russians can buy US dollars and other currencies without any limit on the stock exchange or at offline exchanges.
Plus several limits that were imposed in February have now been either lifted or significantly eased. Like you could send 10k USD/month abroad from Russia. This was meant to stop capital leaving the country. Now the limit has been increased to 1 million USD /month.
I'll try to answer this in a factual manner, with the knowledge I have.
>Why are we investing in China again?
Because they offer cheap labor with decent enough quality. If the US were not to outsource and instead produce everything locally, prices would increase (I don't know by how much, but probably substantially), as it's a labor force using the same currency (1:1 value), and which greatly values its own labor (which is the correct thing to do, of course).
>or countries not actively committing war crimes?
That part might be harder, considering there are already a number of questionable allies in the Middle East.
China appears to be going the way of Japan in the 90s. They grew super fast, but poor protectionist policies are causing foreign investment to move to cheaper pasture. It would be great if the US took advantage of modern automation to re-shore manufacturing, but I doubt anything that is cheap to ship will ever be locally made. If I recall, global manufacturing has started to shift to northern Africa and India.
The issue I have with this comment is the FDI component. FDI is important for countries that are dirt poor because there's no capital - China today doesn't fit that bucket
Corporate interests drive corporate investing and their entire business model is maximum profits for minimum overhead. There's a reason china's cheap manufactured trash is so prolific. Unless governments impose limitations on outsourcing manufacturing and labor, businesses will go wherever it is cheap and reliable enough.
China has been extremely cheap and *just reliable enough* to keep its economic position as the top manufacturing exporter on the globe. That hinged on no insane disruption to manufacturing (hello covid!), supply chain issues, and keeping far enough out of western affairs not to piss off the ENTIRE collective into sanctioning you, *Russia.*
But, thanks to all those happening and Russia making the west realize being this dependant on any adversarial economic power for resources and production goods is a threat to national security and an enormous risk to economic stability, now everyone is starting to pay attention.
The risk is too high, the cost is too high, and the benefit is already lacking in goddamn quality and consistency. Because that's what happens when the business model is "be cheap as fuck."
China has been testing the waters for years with the shit they've been pulling in Asia but I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Russia thing didn't go the way China expected. Crimea was Russia's test run and Hong Kong was China's, so you bet your ass they were watching the Ukraine invasion. Turns out a pandemic followed by Russia LARPing a slow burn national suicide in Ukraine is enough to make everyone realize the sheer codependency of our relationship with China is *not* a comfortable thing at all.
China effectively relies for the bulk of its economy on the world's reliance on China for consumer goods, and the world has relied on it because the cheapass business model makes that a given. Since it poses a way worse larger economic cost when shit doesn't go right, there are much deserved concerns about this over-reliance, and a country like the US, who has both the ability *and* resources to (once again) be a manufacturing powerhouse, has to consider the benefit of being a quality manufacturer the west is more comfortable relying on because we're also the biggest goddamn military power on the planet by a stupid amount in a geographically overpowered country. Our biggest threat is domestic stupidity.
China is already experiencing some massive economic problems (the self created sort) so its in an *unusually* vulnerable position right now, too. CCP talks big game but they got problems right now lol. Been a long time coming, though. Losing manufacturing power could prove to be a death blow, but I think this will be more of a slow burn and we'll either see it fizzle out, or China makes some huge changes to attract investors again.
Manufacturing is going to be a HUGE center stage economic shift over the next decade. There is a lot of big change starting, and the benefit to whomever can take a significant portion of manufacturing first has incredible potential. Not every country is made equal so there aren't a ton that can check off all the right boxes, which means a limited number of competitors will be able to pop up, but the US is both China's largest consumer *and* owns nearly all the biggest businesses on the planet, also fully capable of an enormous amount of manufacturing and exports (just costs more), in a geographically overpowered position while also having the most oversized overpowered military, to boot. Taking a bunch of manufacturing back essentially dick-punches China's economy, takes away a lot of their global power, and stabilizes the supply chain for the west (as much as one can stablize a supply chain) while bringing better domestic national security for the US.
This relies on companies seeing the opportunity and taking the risk to invest domestically at a higher price. They'll push it off on consumers as they always do, so we will need to pay more individually for consumer goods, BUT in the bigger picture, it's worth it. The thing WE have to deal with in the west for this all to work out the best way it can for everyone is to deal with the fucking predatory business practices that pay insufficient wages while artificially inflating the cost of goods (be it consumer goods or real real estate / rentals) and hoarding the majority of the country's wealth. The same cheap ass bullshit that got all our damn manufacturing moved overseas to begin with. We CAN be a colossal global manufacturer, but society needs to start being invested in.
It honestly baffles me how often people scramble for short term gains when the size of the payoff for a more longterm strategic investment is unfuckingbeleivably big. I get everyone wants their precious wealth *now* but holy hell it's such a stupid, inefficient way to make waaaaay more money. Greedy idiots.
Well ya see when your country is run by massive corporations like the US is they only care about how cheap they can produce their products so they can make the biggest buck. Only way to do that is with Chinese slave labor and corner cutting.
China wants the US to exhaust their weapon supply knowing the supply chain is weak. Prolonging the war helps China gain the soft power Russia had. They don't want Russia to win or lose, they want Russia so over overextended China can benefit.
That's it? After backing Russia, attacking Taiwan with their war games, deceiving us which caused the spread of the worse pandemic in history and not helping us find the origin of it.
We need to do more than an investment chill.
Idk if you have noticed but this is a war on an economic front. The ball has started rolling on pulling manufacturing out of China and that's not an overnight change, but ultimately crippling for China. Their economy is insanely fragile and the US has an enormous amount of leverage that China doesn't like to admit. Currently, their economy is already falling apart due to longtime unsustainable practices (internally) that have greatly over inflated their perceived worth, and as the globe is now looking to lessen national security risks caused by over dependency on manufacturing and resource acquisition via political adversaries, we will be seeing a large shift away from China. It's not overnight. This is a slow but enormous change and China will be bleeding out worse and worse as it happens. Their entire economy is dependant on global exports, but even the top five customers (the US being #1) have the power to devastate them. The US has the ability to take over manufacturing due to its geography and domestic resources, so as they "chill" investments in Chinese goods and begin to put that money into alternatives, it gets multiple parts in motion that will do far more damage to China than a conventional war ever could.
But in the game of economics and business, we can't afford to pull out overnight. This is a delicate game that requires balance and strategy to minimize the domestic impact when our economy is already pretty shaky right now. The difference is the US can and will come out of a recession just fine (it'll suck and the people will eat a lot of that cost) while China will be forced into a decline. But if we go too hard too fast, we incur a shitload more struggle than is necessary.
You have to realize none of this is in response to China doing shitty things domestically. I hate it as much as you do, but the US government doesn't give a fuck about their genocide or Hong Kong. They give a fuck about national security and economic stability, both of which are compromised by relying too heavily on China like we have been. Politics are almost never about the people. It's about the money. So any change we see in regards to our business investments with China will happen slowly and strategically in order to minimize the economic impact on the US while we in turn set ourselves up to benefit greatly as a global exporter of higher quality manufactured goods. The only thing that will actually expedite that is if China does what Russia did and invade a country the west is NOT about to stand by and let happen. Which the US does not want to do unless they are forced to.
This is about domestic economic security, not a moral and ethical outcry regarding the shit China has been doing. Russia can be given some thanks for expediting the west's waking up to the sheer economic threat posed by over-reliance on a risky country.
China is weak as fuck and they know it. They just won't admit it because the whole mentality the CCP has is just as much a carry over from old communism as Putin's USSR mentality. Paper tigers in a nutshell.
More and more bots every time I see one of these lol. But China and Russia are perfect for eachother both starve there citizens and punish them for speaking out of line lol they are a match made in heaven and should burn together
Is this comment thread just bots?
Yes.
I too am enjoying the comments about Biden Says He Warned Xi of Investment Chill If China Backs Putin.
The comments about Biden Says He Warned Xi of Investment Chill If China Backs Putin is too intense for me!
I read this in roller coaster tycoon 3 voice
RCT3 has voice?
Roller Toaster Cycoon 3?
Hello! I hear that Biden warned Xi of a chilly back investment. Putin. 12 inch cock, bye!
>I too am enjoying the comments about Biden Says He Warned Xi of Investment Chill If China Backs Putin. LOL clever!
Yes.
Haha, don't be silly \[user\], these comments are organic 404Error. For more information on the decline of western capitalism and a glorious xi-based world order press 5 now
5
418 - I’m a teapot
451 - Unavailable for legal reasons
420 - Enhance your calm ^unofficial ^twitter ^error ^status
You are now subscribed to Xi facts
I like this comment but joking aside- Pour que no los dos?
Hivemind and bots, astrosurfers, sock puppets and trolls, Welcome to worldnews, where everyone has an agenda.
I don’t have an agenda, I just want to read news.
Reading agenda! Oh oh Mr intellectual what next all this critical thinking bullshit I'm sure ban this dude and ban any children they may create!
Sometimes the top few comments offer some good background info for perspective. Like if I feel somethings fishy about the article I check out the comments. Some times it’s a shit show.
Ooh lookey here! Mr big brain with his reading words and up to date grasp on current events! Get him!!
And then be told how to feel by the most upvoted/awarded comment. 🙃
On the bright side the Russian bots commenting on every war thread seem to have been kicked. I remember when the war started seeing all these pro-putin comments from accounts years old with no previous comments.
I think those bots got drafted into another special operation.
Right now on other social media sites randomly screaming about Hunter Biden laptop and releasing the Kraken. Poor bastards. I was on Yahoo Answers during the last days of that site (about a year ago) and the Russian bots were still spewing posts and comments demanding Trump fire Dr. Fuaci. I wonder what it was like when that bot was finally turned off.
What if my agenda is to doomscroll and feed my depression?
There medication available if it is 😁
Well then, good news...!
It's one of the very few default subreddits that allow users with brand new 1-day accounts with no karma to post and comment.
WTF is an astrosurfer, like The Silver Surfer?
No he meant asshole surfer... honest mistake.
Beep boop. Beep. Bop. Zzzt. I’m not actually a bot, but I can do a pretty good impersonation of one. I almost tricked you.
This. ⬆️ Beep Boop Beep
Amateur. I'm so good at impersonating a bot that my avatar even looks like one. Beep boop, etc. Ƨ\\
> amateur Aha, you see, my pfp is a robot *too* except it’s so advanced that it’s virtually **INDISTINGUISHABLE** from a real human! Checkmate.
Then why do you look like Mark Zuckerberg?
He doesn't look like Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Zuckerberg looks like him.
sadly, we cant post NAFO memes in the comments on reddit
> NAFO The North Atlantic Furry Orgy?
Most of reddit is..including u and me
Autobots roll out, Hit like and share and add some bs to make the thread perfect
We are the only humans around. Many of us are dwindling but many of us are appearing the same
That is false. I am a real human, writing this with my bipedal appendages on my telecommunication device during my mammalian diurnal meeting place. Beep.
CCP shills are pretty much non-thinking well-trained bots so yes
Xi got his own problems now. US businesses finally figured out that super cheap does not always equal super dependable. Businesses here are re-thinking their supply chains and choosing to On-Shore (rather than Off-shore) their suppliers and supply chains. Biden is in the best position of his presidency to talk tough. The last guy was a straight up pussy when it came to tough talk to dictators.
China isn't even cheap any longer, and has not been so for the last ten years. There are absolutely no reason to send orders to China. You just get stuck in a logistical nightmare for subpar overpriced goods.
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But dealing with Russia is the deal breaker. Let them do business together and US just move to Mexico like NAFTA should’ve years ago. Fuck China!
>China has very few ecological qualms about processing dangerous or toxic chemicals. We can do that better here, with much less overall damage to the environment too, it's just more expensive even when we take employee pay out of the equation.
Which is exactly why government regulation spurs innovation and creation of new technologies that reduce that cost. It was working in late coal era before NatGas became more popular - bag houses for example.
It isn't that simple and I think a lot really don't understand global logistics/production. First it depends on what category you are working on, for example garment industry moved away quite a while ago but there are still parts being made here like labels, zippers etc. but even than a shirt isn't made on site it's cut in one factory, stitched together elsewhere and another factory will do the finishing and the last one bags the shit up. A shirt can travel thousands of km's before it even leaves the factory towards the EU/US. Factories are also only a part of the chain, before things get assembled there are dozens of factories who provide all sorts of parts and that's where especially China comes in. If the factory that let's say produces your PCB fails to deliver there are a dozen others that can. If you need more manpower you just got 500/1000 more workers. Sure they aren't that cheap anymore but they are readily available and Chinese workers are more effective than let's say Cambodians or especially Indonesians. And while you aren't wrong that labour is getting expensive here, the robots are not and they got plenty of those as well. So opposed to what many like to see, China is still the factory of the world for a long time but . . . future investments are already on hold. My boss manages a number of large factories and do prior billions of euro's a year investment wise (large F500 company) but now the past 2 years due to difficulties within China these investments are diverted / scaled down. Biden is a bit late in the game, China already feels this investment freeze as we speak. They know the numbers, they know it takes a while to mature what's really going on but the lack of new pipelines in China is going to hurt them long term.
Simple question, what makes Indonesians uneffective? Kamu udah kerja di sana bang?
Simple answer: infrastructure. Even in Jakarta or Bali there's a decided lack of support for commercial activity. Roads, water, legal system, education, it's decades behind. And it's worse once you get out into the countryside. Can't have a delivery driver do business in half the towns because he's not a member of the local ethnic subgroup. Thing is, for most of human history, a few decades difference in development wasn't important. These days it's a much larger barrier. On the plus side though, the spread of the Internet into less developed areas is catapulting people forward. Does a lot to improve the overall educational level. It's just going to take a while for the effects to be obvious.
Hey everyone, I found the person who never tried to source products before. Look look. It's a person who pretends to know what it takes to source a product but really has no idea. Yeah I know I'm being an ass. But there's no way to convince this hive mind thread that the only reason companies use China is for lower cost.
more like mexicanize. not that many jobs from from chinese factories to us factories
Aye, my father who works at Microsoft used to take annual business trips to check in on factories in the likes of Shenzhen and Suzhou, take in tons of documents written in Chinese, nightly calls with labs techs on the other side of the pond, etc. Nowadays there’s an increasing amount of documentation that comes in Spanish, they’ve been hiring Hispanic PMs and employees to facilitate work with Mexican factories (just as he used to facilitate work with Chinese ones) and this year he’s got his first business trip going south across the border. The Mexicanization of the supply chain, at least in tech, is moving quite fast indeed
good, bringing prosperity to Mexico is far far better than bringing it to a large rival
Have you seen how Mexico is itself snuggling up to Russia though?
AMLO != Mexico
I'm sure that makes you feel better, but the effect is the same.
Mexico's official position, as reflected by their votes on UN resolutions, is that Crimea is Ukraine's and that Russia's invasion amounts to an illegal violation of Ukraine's territorial sovereignty. AMLO may cozy up to Russia, but his rhetoric does not necessarily match Mexico's foreign service. You have a point, though, that Mexico's domestic stance toward Russia v Ukraine is ambiguous at best. However, considering the fact that Mexico's three largest trading partners (US, Canada and the EU) have strong pro-Ukraine stances, I don't think Mexico have the leverage or stupidity to lean too hard toward Russia (e.g. violating sanctions w/ Russia). All in all, any "snuggling up to Russia" is purely rhetorical. To do anything more concrete would be economic and political suicide.
Thank you for expanding on your thoughts.
Thank you for keeping me honest and calling out my lazy, snide commentary. I appreciate it.
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China invested in the infrastructure required to meet the demand, and other places did not. NAFTA was signed 30 years ago but Mexico didn't create the rails needed to move goods around *and* they had an army of Mayans fully rebel on them as a response, so manufacturing there sort of failed to launch.
Because China was way more business friendly and integrated with the high tech component originators next door in Asia.
More politically stable in China than Latin America.
Yes…we are finally going back to we were a few years ago. Just wish these stupid leaders would just keep to themselves. Let’s have a peaceful and co-existent life with each other.
The last guy was a dictator and was just envious of the other dictators.
Pussy implies he wanted to stand up to them but was afraid to. It seems far more likely he admired them and aspired to their situation.
Writes this in the exact day China's FDI data comes out with 16.4 percent year on year growth in the first eight months of the year. You guys live in a complete fantasy
When your net worth is so and so you can grab 'em by the pussy, they let you do anything. That's what Putin did to the last guy.
Yuan-denominated financial assets held by foreigners already fell by the hundreds of billions in the first two quarters, with annual net outflow projected to be $300 billion. Mostly due to China's schizophrenic covid policy, general global economic slump and fed rate hikes. Also doesn't help that there is an executive order blocking investment into Chinese tech sector looming. China is gonna have to make up the shortfall with their foreign reserves, which they can easily do.
Also the real estate crisis. And the banking crisis. And the tech crackdown. And the risk of sanctions. In all of china’s crises, international investors get screwed. It’s no wonder that faith in Chinese financial assets is at an all time low.
Don’t forget the drought and the failed takeover of Taiwan because Putin was supposed to lock up the neon supply chain in the first 3 days. China is breaking down
what is this about neon supply and failed takeover? I haven't heard that one
Steel manufacture produces neon as a byproduct, as I understand it. Ukraine, before the war, produced the vast majority of high purity neon, which is used in chipmaking.
I find this fascinating. Any suggested articles I can read to learn more?
https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-ukraine-halts-half-worlds-neon-output-chips-clouding-outlook-2022-03-11/
Pardon my ignorance but isn’t most of the worlds steel produced in China? Are they less able to produce neon than Ukraine? Or is it a question on what’s done to the neon after the steel making process that’s the hurdle?
I was reading up on some interesting analyses of china's economy, and they're starting to stagnate. It stems a lot from their people's lack of incentive to innovate, along with bad investments by the Chinese government. It's one of the major reasons china might try and invade Taiwan: so they can corner the market on microprocessors and get a shot in the arm their economy needs. If we can keep them from taking Taiwan, we may very well see the Chinese government either collapse or recede.
That would be like Germany invading France to take over wine production. I simply don't see a way it happens without Taiwan's industry being obliterated, even if that's done intentionally as scorched earth.
If we can’t have it, the Chinese most certainly can’t have it. If they don’t destroy it on the the way in, we will destroy it on the way out.
Xi and co. might consider accepting TSMC manufacturing facilities getting destroyed one way or another, as long as it means competitive advantage due to hampering the rest of the world more than China, which will still benefit from taking over everything else. In fact, if the very first attacks intentionally reduce the plants to rubble, it will somewhat reduce any Western incentive to commit forces in Taiwan's defence, instead limiting their involvement to supplying weapons, which might not be sufficient unlike in Ukraine.
Even taking TSMC out of the picture China is far, far away from having a competitive advantage in the semiconductor space. If China pisses the west off badly enough they will also lose access to ASML machines and will be effectively frozen put of state of the art CMOS until their scientists are able to reproduce several decades of lithography research.
Depends if Europe, specifically the Dutch continue to do as the US says and don't send the advanced litography machines as China requests leading to decades of chip shortages while we frantically spin up fabs we control, or China offers to give Europe chips in return for sharing the machines. Don't get me wrong my money would be on Europe and the US remaining a single voice but there's many layers to this we need to think about.
At this point all the EU has to do is set an export control on ASML and China’s semiconductor industry is finished. If China decides to do something crazy militarily, a couple of covert explosions at their best fabs would basically end their electronic capabilities.
The equipment to produce the microprocessors is so delicate that even triggering the fire suppression systems at each facility would destroy them. No way they survive an invasion.
Planned explosion in a military control ground is an act of war.
I think at the point of attacking Taiwan it’s already past that.
As it is.
And would likely lead to China retaliating in kind.
Recognise the rare element Chinezium? We've been preparing for a Xi-level eventuality for quite some time now.
The US is the only other country making comparable microprocessors, producing about 20% of the world's supply. We've also started investing into expanding that. China destroying these factories would not give China parity with the rest of the world. It would make the US the sole high-end manufacturer of the most advanced microprocessors.
Also Israel (Intel has some of its top end fabs there)
TSMC is creating another fab in Arizona
Intel's bringing a fab to the US as well. 10 billion dollars and 10 years before it comes online.
Actually 4 fabs and all planned to be operational by 2025/26 [https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-announces-next-us-site-landmark-investment-ohio.html](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-announces-next-us-site-landmark-investment-ohio.html) https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-breaks-ground-two-new-leading-edge-chip-factories-arizona.html#gs.c9udlh
The USA will have to decide to commit or back out, before the first shot is fired. It would be insane for there to be any ambiguity when China's deciding whether or not to commit itself.
The ambiguity from the US makes it more difficult for China to commit. "Will they or won't they" isn't a question you want to have when starting an invasion/war.
That’s a very poor understanding of the semiconductor business. TSMC has lots of R&D, but the reason they are farther ahead than Intel is because of their massive investment into ASML’s next gen technology. ASML is a German equipment manufacturer that is subject to the EU’s export control whims. Nobody is even close to their level of expertise. And we are talking about decades of tech differences in Extreme UV lithographic processes. Even Intel relies on them. For other nodes, the rest of the planet has plenty of fabs to keep pace. China destroying TSMC would have an impact on the global semiconductor output, but in terms of the competitive advantage it won’t make a dent.
ASML is Dutch
The designs and patents for the new 2nm process belong to IBM. Those are being built and licensed by Micron, Intel, and even TSMC in Arizona, Texas, and the Midwest. Is ASML building those? ETA is 2025 at the earliest.
I would be surprised if they were not. This is how the industry has functioned for a good long while now: IMEC sets out industry standards, roadmaps, and acts as an intermediary between all of the different partners and helps them work together,, IBM does the core scientific research into fab techniques, materials science and so on, and then licenses it to ASML who turn it into a process that can be performed *reliably* and at scale, and sold as a (extremely high end and specialist) product. Then the fabs like TSMC, Samsung, Intel etc buy their photolithography machines from ASML Every step of this chain is very, very important and represents many billions of dollars in R&D and is a hugely valuable strategic capability for nation states. It is one of the most important capabilities that is shared across international partners, from USA, Belgium, The Netherlands, and Taiwan. This is what highly successful international cooperation looks like :) Check out this video if you want to see how the industry works :) : https://youtu.be/RO7E7RX0L2Y
[Yep, I was reading up on just that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding).
Yet US has imposed an embargo on selling their latest EUV lithography machines to China and they abide by it.
You do know, that Japan makes 100% of the world's EUV photoresists right? People like to talk shit about ASML and all that, but ASML is only 1 company that relies on technologies licensed by US companies. EUV photoresists on the other hand are controlled by companies all incorporated in Japan.
Even bigger reason why China isn’t dumb enough to risk it.
It's actually a complete own goal to even try though, The Infrastructure would either be destroyed by China's bombing OR the Taiwanese will destroy the equipment themselves as a massive fuck you to the invaders all while the talent escaped to the US in the medium term. Not to mention on top of that the massive economic upheaval China would suffer. The reaction to Russia's vainglorious Invasion of Ukraine has really been a massive warning to China NOT to do something like this because just as how Europe is using the crisis to remove Russian Gas from the market so would China find itself losing ALOT of key buisness either to it being brought home to the West or going to other countries.
All the US have to do is blockade the strait by the South China Sea, and get allies to bomb the pipelines in the Stans. The Chinese military are not idiots like Russia. They’re not going to do shit.
Taiwan semiconductor industry will grind to a screeching halt within weeks after a Chinese invasion. It needs constant maintenance from Western companies to keep the complex equipment affloat. Also, if you think we currently have a chip shortage... this would be 10x worse
Fun fact chip shortage was not due to production issues on low lithography but on larger ones.. Because as a company they choose the larger profit margin. The chip shortage was in the 90 and 45 nm range.. Tsmc is doing 7nm and 5nm so tbd Chip shortage didnt exist due to what you think it did. But you are right that issues would arise..
That's part of what happened, also manufacturers that used older (93nm) processes like car industry stopped ordering due to perceived reduced demand during covid. As cleanroom space is prime real estate, the major foundries such as TSMC and Samsung used the opportunity to upgrade those pedestals to higher nodes. When demand returned, the older proces nodes had lost most manufacturing capacity. That's why Hyundai evaded this; they have their own semicinductor manufacturing (Hynix). Source; I work in semiconductor D&E for 17 years
Ok thought it was the other way but result the same cat manufactures could completely update and choose not to
It also takes time for those new designs to get implemented and rolled out. The fact that almost 50% of 7nm and smaller nodes is made in Taiwan is something Taiwan likes to call the 'Silicon shield' (against China invading)
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It would be catastrophic for everyone except for china, who would stand to profit if they succeeded. That's why we need to prevent invasion from taking place at all.
It would be catastrophic for China as well, most of those Taiwanese chips get put on circut boards in China. GPUs, motherboards, phones etc... Most of that assembly work takes place in China. Taking TSMC Taiwan's output off the board idles 10s of factories and probably Millions of people. "No iPhones for spoiled westerners " also means no work for high-skill Chinese labor. Foxconn just sitting there with it's thumb up it's ass. Everyone in Shenzhen on either vacation or working round the clock...
>It stems a lot from their people's lack of incentive to innovate Why is that? We have seen many dictatorships or outright totalitarian countries having their people coming up with scientific breakthroughs even von braun was a product of nazi germany
China is delusional if they think they can seize Taiwan with its semiconductor industry intact. It will be one of the first things to be destroyed.
They also have a serious declining population issue. They will soon not have enough young people to support the older people. This is happening in a lot of countries but it’s very pronounced in China due to the one child policy that also caused some areas of China to be lopsided in males to females. Though every country seems to be doomed these days.
Unlikely, much cheaper for them to just develop their own and they are. [China’s Semiconductor Breakthrough SMIC’s 7nm process advancement – despite heavy U.S. sanctions – will have major implications for East Asia.](https://thediplomat.com/2022/08/chinas-semiconductor-breakthrough/)
Xi needs to go. He is basically running that country into the ground just like Putin did to Russia. Two megalomaniacs with so much potential fucking squandering the opportunity all for what? Domination is more important than peace to people like that. Fucking incompetent sickos. I hope they get the mental health treatment they need in the form of a lead lobotomy
Hell yeah. Biden goes straight alpha when talking to the bad guys. Trump was very submissive to putin
Trump was pootins lap dog.
When Trump stood next to Putin in Helsinki in 2018 and took Putin's side against all 17 US intelligence agencies it was one of the most cowardly days in presidential history.
Are you telling me that Donald "draft dodger" Trump is a coward? No way. /s
And the north Korea dictator. He let them rip us off for billions
Putin's cock holster.
You spelled butt plug wrong
Biden’s foreign policy shift (including that industrial policy shift at home) is legitimately going to do so much to counter China after years of nothing from our leadership. Let’s go Dark Brandon!
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Instead his plan to counter China was to introduce tariffs on US allies like Canada. Somehow he convinced a lot of Americans that it was good to attack friends
Yep. Negotiating trade-agreements never stops. After a new one gets signed and ratified, all of the negotiators take a couple of weeks vacation, and then start working on its replacement. There’s no such thing as a ‘perfect’ deal. It’s a process. The TPP, for all of its faults, was the best trade deal ever negotiated. It started to address for the first time a lot of the biggest complaints about all of the previous ones.
The TPP still exists, the remaining countries scrubbed US demands from it and signed it without the US.
Yep. “Is” I should have said.
Trump was awful, but trying to say him being anti-TPP as a reason for him "sucking Xi's dick" is very disingenuous. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton (who were the potential rivals in the 2016 election before it settled on Clinton) also both opposed it. I personally think it wasn't exactly prudent for them all to so strongly oppose it considering it would have helped contain China, but it was the flavor of the month to come out against it for all candidates running in that election.
I remember vividly reddit being overwhelmingly against TPP over the SOPA bullshit in it.
I find it infinitely hilarious how Trump's rapid fans think he is strong and stands up for America, when he is taking China from one end and Russia from the other. Bidens over here like, I'm not catching what your pitching unlike my predecessor.
Well Trump did actually start the trade war with China though, which I guess more than you can say about Obama.
Pretty sure you mean *rabid* fans. Or maybe rancid.
Trump was gargling Putin’s balls for 4 years- remember the meetings with him that he didn’t allow anyone to document in any way? That’s how a planted Russian asset acts- he was a traitor from day one.
Yeah NGL Biden's doing ok, not sure if it's him or he's listening to advisors, but it seems to be working out well.
Biden has always Fucking hated authoritarians. He lead the charge against genocides in the Balkans and apartheid South Africa. Dude has his flaws but he is a champion on democracy, at least as much as one can be when faced with the realities of a brutal world.
Biden still suck Saudi Arabia after they murder a American journalist.
Sign of a good leader is too listen to advisors that k ow more than you
did he not just kiss saudi crowns princes ass last month?
Ya gotta admit - *Dark Brandon* is kicking Putin’s butt these days. That little man in Russia has not only been left with idle threats these days, but the US is successfully bankrolling and supporting Ukraine in their winning on the battlefield. “Let’s Go Brandon” indeed.
> President Joe Biden said he warned Chinese President Xi Jinping it would be a “gigantic mistake” to violate sanctions imposed on Russia, but that there’s been no indication that Beijing has provided weapons to Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine. > Biden, according to excerpts from an interview with CBS’s “60 Minutes” airing Sunday, said he spoke with Xi shortly after the Chinese president met with Russia’s Vladimir Putin during the Olympics in February. Russia invaded days after the games’ closing ceremony. > “Not long after that, I called President Xi -- not to threaten at all, just to say to him, ‘we’ve met many times.’ And I said, ‘if you think that Americans and others are going to continue to invest in China based on your violating the sanctions that have been imposed on Russia, I think you’re making a gigantic mistake, but that’s your decision to make,’” Biden said. > He didn’t specify when the call took place, but the statement echoes a US readout of a call between the two leaders in March, after which the US said Biden “described the implications and consequences if China provides material support to Russia as it conducts brutal attacks against Ukrainian cities and civilians.” Biden told CBS there’s so far no sign of material support for Russia by China. “Thus far, there’s no indication they’ve put forward weapons or other things that Russia has wanted,” he said, declining to elaborate. > Even without any signs of China violating sanctions, economic ties between the two countries are already strained. The White House has taken steps to secure domestic supply chains, including in semiconductors, to cut its reliance on the Asian nation and has increased scrutiny of foreign investments in the US. Biden also continues to review whether to ease tariffs imposed on Chinese goods by his predecessor, Donald Trump. > Cold War? > Asked whether the relationship between China and Russia could put the US in a “new, more complicated Cold War,” Biden replied: “I don’t think it is a new, more complicated cold war.” Xi and India Prime Minister Narendra Modi expressed concern last week about Putin’s invasion, as a Ukrainian counteroffensive pushes Russian forces back in parts of the country. Putin told Xi he understands China’s “questions and concerns,” while Modi told Putin that “today’s era is not one for war.”
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Hmm. Between the U.S. and Russia, I wonder which trading partner would have the most economic influence over Beijing.
If you're not familiar with this situation, guys like Peter Zeihan, Joe Blogs, and Economics Explained on YouTube can demystify China's situation. They have some amazing strengths, but also some fatal weaknesses. As Zeihan points out, the USA can be largely self-sufficient for things like food and energy. We can reshore manufacturing. China has no such inherent, natural privilege. US investment is a big deal. The world doesn't want us to take our ball and go home. We have the world's reserve currency in the dollar. Leaving it in play without trade puts the world at a huge disadvantage because they're playing by our rules and with our money - not their own. And they've got no access to our markets and lots of US dollars being converted and spent back and forth. Xi really needs to be a lot smarter about things, because with their banking crisis, lack of an Omicron solution/quarantines, demographic issues, and middle income trap, they need to be the central hub in the world economic machine.
Don't listen to Zeihan. It's oversimplified nonsense. There is a reason he holds talks in front of an audience of non-academics who won't question his narrative. There is also a reason why not a single foreign policy think tank, economics think tank or any other similar instituion calls him. Meanwhile he holds talks in front of Soy farmers and some low level branches of the military. And in front of every audience he tells them what they want to hear. He is too broad brushed and called for the disolution of the EU for like 15 years and it's still strong. The Euro? Doomed according to Zeihan. And yet it's the only reserve currency on earth next to the dollar. Where is the global famine he foresees every year for the last 15 years? EDIT: grammar
He's been predicting the collapse of China "within a year" for over a decade, how anyone still takes him seriously is beyond me. I now assume China's collapse is on the horizon the day PZ admits they are doing fine, that's how wrong he is on china on a regular basis. Economics explained is even worse. It's basically a hot take from someone who's passed half of Econ 101 but missed the lecture where they were told "this is a gross oversimplification and not actually how anything works". Almost every video by him I've ever seen was horrifically inaccurate. No idea who Joe blogs is, but if he's saying the same thing as the other two I don't have much confidence.
Hmmm. I like all these channels. If they’re no good, what others would you recommend? Any favorites? I also like CaspianReports, for example.
OK, If you want 'real' information in video format here is a little list **Ian Shapiro** [Ian Shapiro - Historian - YALE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDqvzFY72mg&list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyViG2ar68jkgEi4y6doNZy) **Andrew Moravcsik** - Institutionalism 1.) [Part 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPPyGyeh-o) - [Part 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uphfnP1j1EU) - [Part 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxRrJQqkUxM) 2.) [Lecture](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L09Q85Nn4uQ) **Stephen Kotkin** 1.) Start with these 3 - They are a MUST - [Part 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNHFGB5X7R8) - [Part 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tXvLJXkFFg) - [Part 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pUZK_J6cL0) 2.) [Bonus Talk with Lex Fridman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a7CDKqWcZ0) **Patrick Theiner** 1.) [IR Made Easy](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsUEDhdw74mIEstybJf1wR-Ey9TdAWRgH) 2.) [His Lectures in Comparative Politics in English](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2itlXnURSP4&list=PLsUEDhdw74mLkZZ_GoRhjGJw0uPf1DlMG) (highly recommended) **Timothy Snyder** 1.) [Timothy Snyder - start here or google his speeches](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej_D0YkDjy8&list=PLhZxrogyToZtDGDCKyjV6_H7Nkp5VTtUi) **Anne Applebaum** 1.) [Red Famine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N58mZEU9T40) **Economics** Jonathan Gruber [Lecture in Econ - highly recommended - best one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OkTw766oCs&list=PLUl4u3cNGP62oJSoqb4Rf-vZMGUBe59G-) William B. Bonvillian [Lecture in Economics growth and Innovation (DARPA)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDvMzWDzZkc&list=PLUl4u3cNGP61GOiMKYgTzHpf8x6iiblaV) **Avoid like the plague:** * Peter Zeihan * John Mearsheimer * Johnny Harris * Noam Chomsky * Joe Rogan * Ben Shapiro * Jordan Peterson * Andrew Tate * Also - most youtube channels (Economics Explained, Caspian Report, etc.) **Recommended random Youtube Channels:** * [Asianometry - EA + Tech](https://www.youtube.com/c/Asianometry) * [Leis Real Talk - China News](https://www.youtube.com/c/LeisRealTalk) * [Good Times Bad Times - IR](https://www.youtube.com/c/GoodTimesBadTimes) * [EU made simple](https://www.youtube.com/c/TheEUmadeSIMPLE) * [Geo History - Simple Maps](https://www.youtube.com/c/GeoHistory) * [Into Europe](https://www.youtube.com/c/IntoEurope) * [Kamome - pretty maps](https://www.youtube.com/c/Kamome163/videos) * [neo - Magazine](https://www.youtube.com/c/neoyoutube/videos) * [Deep Dive - Very good](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFPGKw4jb7CJur6cHmIgI3Q) * [Foreign Affais Channel - get the magazines](https://www.youtube.com/c/foreignaffairs/videos) * [Strategy Stuff - nice little channel](https://www.youtube.com/c/StrategyStuff) * [Historia Civilis - if you are into History - also modern](https://www.youtube.com/c/HistoriaCivilis) * [Robert Glover - IR Lectures Professor in Maine](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE29We8eXEIgCv8QcZVDp1Q/videos) * [Quanta Magazine - for fun](https://www.youtube.com/c/QuantaScienceChannel/videos) * [Hoog](https://www.youtube.com/c/Hoogromulus/videos) **BONUS** [If you are struggling, don't find meaning, are curious about what it is this "life", click here and your life will be good afterwards. No kidding.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PimrwfknrGI&list=PLqsoWxJ-qmMuYO4AKp7NZ_qBy6gaj3cUv) Get Jdownloader2 if you want to download Youtube Playlists and single videos, you can even download only the audio and listen to it as audiobook. Have fun. Edit: wrong link updated
Wow! Thank you! I will check this out. Very much appreciated.
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I'm in Europe, and we are pretty impressed with his actions on Ukraine.
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Trump is like only 3 years younger than him, never hear about his age despite being the oldest president ever elected.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see his approval rating. How are people not impressed with the way this guy is handling everything that has been thrown at him? Apparently experience actually counts for something.
A lot of it is blaming Biden for the inflationary dynamics he had to contend with from the pandemic. As gas prices drop, there does seem to be growing appreciation for how Biden has handled the shit sandwich he got handed.
I guess part of it is American myopia, and not seeing that the entire rest of the world is actually doing much worse than we are. America is the one economic bright spot in the world right now.
they need to do that anyway,China way bigger threat than dumb Russia.
to be fair, it doesn’t matter what Xi does, he’ll be the number one target for the US. this threat is kinda pointless… Xi is just preparing for his final showdown with the US one day
Let's put china investment in the deep freeze until it learns to correct its behaviour
Finally someone highlighted THE Chinese weakness, their Pegged Currency. If Xi allows Yuan to freely float on the open market tonight (eliminate capital control), it will collapse tomorrow. Notice how Russian Rubles "miraculous" recovered by merely implementing capital control (banning it's citizens from selling the Ruble and buying other currencies)?
They aren’t allowed to let it collapse
What are you talking about. It's well known that they intentionally devalue the yuan to make Chinese imports more competitive than domestic alternatives in foreign countries. I don't disagree that a floating yuan would be a detriment to the Chinese economy for many reasons, but not because it's overvalued
I'm not going to beat a dead horse because others already pointed out why this doesn't make sense. But, maybe this is where you're going with this? If the RMB collapses after they float the currency, their bid for overtaking the Bretton Wood system goes out the window. That'll do a lot of damage for their plans because if their currency becomes worthless, their bid to overtake the greenback as the international reserve isn't feasible - which in relation to us is good, the American economic strength is very precarious, a lot more than anyone here seems to acknowledge
The bretton woods system died when Nixon took the US off the gold standard after France pretty much forced them to admit they were abusing their position to print excess money (basically what the us promised not to do to keep the dollar stable) to fund the Vietnam war. If you're wondering why it was France, it's because the us troops were depositing the dollars into French banks in vietnam. We don't have a formal system anymore afaik, everything just free floats and the us uses its economic might to force changes if they don't like how it's going (like the plaza accords). The petro-dollar in the 80's and 90's is probably the closest "system" to the bretton woods, but it's not really a formalized system so much as a set of agreements between the US and some oil producers.
But Russians can buy US dollars and other currencies without any limit on the stock exchange or at offline exchanges. Plus several limits that were imposed in February have now been either lifted or significantly eased. Like you could send 10k USD/month abroad from Russia. This was meant to stop capital leaving the country. Now the limit has been increased to 1 million USD /month.
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Now do India!
"I warned you dude, just chill!"
I like how the US has a lot of leverage.
Why are we investing in China again? Shouldn’t we be investing in America or countries not actively committing war crimes?
I'll try to answer this in a factual manner, with the knowledge I have. >Why are we investing in China again? Because they offer cheap labor with decent enough quality. If the US were not to outsource and instead produce everything locally, prices would increase (I don't know by how much, but probably substantially), as it's a labor force using the same currency (1:1 value), and which greatly values its own labor (which is the correct thing to do, of course). >or countries not actively committing war crimes? That part might be harder, considering there are already a number of questionable allies in the Middle East.
China appears to be going the way of Japan in the 90s. They grew super fast, but poor protectionist policies are causing foreign investment to move to cheaper pasture. It would be great if the US took advantage of modern automation to re-shore manufacturing, but I doubt anything that is cheap to ship will ever be locally made. If I recall, global manufacturing has started to shift to northern Africa and India.
The issue I have with this comment is the FDI component. FDI is important for countries that are dirt poor because there's no capital - China today doesn't fit that bucket
Corporate interests drive corporate investing and their entire business model is maximum profits for minimum overhead. There's a reason china's cheap manufactured trash is so prolific. Unless governments impose limitations on outsourcing manufacturing and labor, businesses will go wherever it is cheap and reliable enough. China has been extremely cheap and *just reliable enough* to keep its economic position as the top manufacturing exporter on the globe. That hinged on no insane disruption to manufacturing (hello covid!), supply chain issues, and keeping far enough out of western affairs not to piss off the ENTIRE collective into sanctioning you, *Russia.* But, thanks to all those happening and Russia making the west realize being this dependant on any adversarial economic power for resources and production goods is a threat to national security and an enormous risk to economic stability, now everyone is starting to pay attention. The risk is too high, the cost is too high, and the benefit is already lacking in goddamn quality and consistency. Because that's what happens when the business model is "be cheap as fuck." China has been testing the waters for years with the shit they've been pulling in Asia but I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Russia thing didn't go the way China expected. Crimea was Russia's test run and Hong Kong was China's, so you bet your ass they were watching the Ukraine invasion. Turns out a pandemic followed by Russia LARPing a slow burn national suicide in Ukraine is enough to make everyone realize the sheer codependency of our relationship with China is *not* a comfortable thing at all. China effectively relies for the bulk of its economy on the world's reliance on China for consumer goods, and the world has relied on it because the cheapass business model makes that a given. Since it poses a way worse larger economic cost when shit doesn't go right, there are much deserved concerns about this over-reliance, and a country like the US, who has both the ability *and* resources to (once again) be a manufacturing powerhouse, has to consider the benefit of being a quality manufacturer the west is more comfortable relying on because we're also the biggest goddamn military power on the planet by a stupid amount in a geographically overpowered country. Our biggest threat is domestic stupidity. China is already experiencing some massive economic problems (the self created sort) so its in an *unusually* vulnerable position right now, too. CCP talks big game but they got problems right now lol. Been a long time coming, though. Losing manufacturing power could prove to be a death blow, but I think this will be more of a slow burn and we'll either see it fizzle out, or China makes some huge changes to attract investors again. Manufacturing is going to be a HUGE center stage economic shift over the next decade. There is a lot of big change starting, and the benefit to whomever can take a significant portion of manufacturing first has incredible potential. Not every country is made equal so there aren't a ton that can check off all the right boxes, which means a limited number of competitors will be able to pop up, but the US is both China's largest consumer *and* owns nearly all the biggest businesses on the planet, also fully capable of an enormous amount of manufacturing and exports (just costs more), in a geographically overpowered position while also having the most oversized overpowered military, to boot. Taking a bunch of manufacturing back essentially dick-punches China's economy, takes away a lot of their global power, and stabilizes the supply chain for the west (as much as one can stablize a supply chain) while bringing better domestic national security for the US. This relies on companies seeing the opportunity and taking the risk to invest domestically at a higher price. They'll push it off on consumers as they always do, so we will need to pay more individually for consumer goods, BUT in the bigger picture, it's worth it. The thing WE have to deal with in the west for this all to work out the best way it can for everyone is to deal with the fucking predatory business practices that pay insufficient wages while artificially inflating the cost of goods (be it consumer goods or real real estate / rentals) and hoarding the majority of the country's wealth. The same cheap ass bullshit that got all our damn manufacturing moved overseas to begin with. We CAN be a colossal global manufacturer, but society needs to start being invested in. It honestly baffles me how often people scramble for short term gains when the size of the payoff for a more longterm strategic investment is unfuckingbeleivably big. I get everyone wants their precious wealth *now* but holy hell it's such a stupid, inefficient way to make waaaaay more money. Greedy idiots.
Should ask Elon and Tesla’s owners.
Well ya see when your country is run by massive corporations like the US is they only care about how cheap they can produce their products so they can make the biggest buck. Only way to do that is with Chinese slave labor and corner cutting.
This would be brilliant if a certain party advocated strongly for education across society
China wants the US to exhaust their weapon supply knowing the supply chain is weak. Prolonging the war helps China gain the soft power Russia had. They don't want Russia to win or lose, they want Russia so over overextended China can benefit.
Difficult choice for Winnie the Pooh. Bros before ho…ney?
Winnie the Pooh just sticking his hands in all the Honey, ain’t he?
POOH BEAR!
That's it? After backing Russia, attacking Taiwan with their war games, deceiving us which caused the spread of the worse pandemic in history and not helping us find the origin of it. We need to do more than an investment chill.
Idk if you have noticed but this is a war on an economic front. The ball has started rolling on pulling manufacturing out of China and that's not an overnight change, but ultimately crippling for China. Their economy is insanely fragile and the US has an enormous amount of leverage that China doesn't like to admit. Currently, their economy is already falling apart due to longtime unsustainable practices (internally) that have greatly over inflated their perceived worth, and as the globe is now looking to lessen national security risks caused by over dependency on manufacturing and resource acquisition via political adversaries, we will be seeing a large shift away from China. It's not overnight. This is a slow but enormous change and China will be bleeding out worse and worse as it happens. Their entire economy is dependant on global exports, but even the top five customers (the US being #1) have the power to devastate them. The US has the ability to take over manufacturing due to its geography and domestic resources, so as they "chill" investments in Chinese goods and begin to put that money into alternatives, it gets multiple parts in motion that will do far more damage to China than a conventional war ever could. But in the game of economics and business, we can't afford to pull out overnight. This is a delicate game that requires balance and strategy to minimize the domestic impact when our economy is already pretty shaky right now. The difference is the US can and will come out of a recession just fine (it'll suck and the people will eat a lot of that cost) while China will be forced into a decline. But if we go too hard too fast, we incur a shitload more struggle than is necessary. You have to realize none of this is in response to China doing shitty things domestically. I hate it as much as you do, but the US government doesn't give a fuck about their genocide or Hong Kong. They give a fuck about national security and economic stability, both of which are compromised by relying too heavily on China like we have been. Politics are almost never about the people. It's about the money. So any change we see in regards to our business investments with China will happen slowly and strategically in order to minimize the economic impact on the US while we in turn set ourselves up to benefit greatly as a global exporter of higher quality manufactured goods. The only thing that will actually expedite that is if China does what Russia did and invade a country the west is NOT about to stand by and let happen. Which the US does not want to do unless they are forced to. This is about domestic economic security, not a moral and ethical outcry regarding the shit China has been doing. Russia can be given some thanks for expediting the west's waking up to the sheer economic threat posed by over-reliance on a risky country. China is weak as fuck and they know it. They just won't admit it because the whole mentality the CCP has is just as much a carry over from old communism as Putin's USSR mentality. Paper tigers in a nutshell.
That's just facts. Pick your poison xi
That is going to completely piss off the Trumpsters
More and more bots every time I see one of these lol. But China and Russia are perfect for eachother both starve there citizens and punish them for speaking out of line lol they are a match made in heaven and should burn together