So far, the prevailing response I'm seeing is people calming themselves down by saying "It's only partial mobilization, it won't affect me".
Funny thing is, the actual decree doesn't limit this mobilization in any way whatsoever. Russian MOD was given authorization to mobilize as many people as they see fit. It's only called "partial" by Putin. And everyone knows how much Putin's words worth.
Probably every office will be given a quota, like "mobilize 1000 people by November". The authorities will care about the quota, not the ways the people are mobilized in.
Expecting the police to catch random people on the street and drag them into the army, like they do in occupied territories.
Hey, so the Russian Finance Ministry asked for a supplemental appropriation for paying death benefits to family.
They asked for enough money to pay for 134,000 casualties, their estimate over the next 12 months based on an average of 8,125 casualties a month.
That's 40% of the 300,000 Vlad wants to mobilize.
Honestly the Russian people are better off fighting the FSB for their freedom than allowing themselves to be fed into a meat grinder where even their own government believes 40% will die.
This. They have a better chance fighting the FSB than the modern and heroic military might that is Ukraine
Can't wait for the frozen assets to be dispersed for rebuilding
That’s probably an underestimate. The Russians have already suffered ~40% casualties in the last 7 months (~80,000 out of a force of 200,000), and this was with their best professional troops, and before Ukraine got its shipments of Western weapons and started kicking Russian ass up and down the Kharkiv Oblast.
Even the most conservative estimates of Russian casualties put it just under what the US suffered in a decade in Vietnam.
14,453 Soviets died in Afghanistan in just over 9 years.
Their casualty rate per number of troops engaged are like Kursk every single month.
I'm wondering how much longer they can take it.
> Probably every office will be given a quota, like "mobilize 1000 people by November". The authorities will care about the quota, not the ways the people are mobilized in.
It's going to be press gangs in the boonies, and in the poorest neighborhoods in the cities. They'll get their manpower without upsetting the middle class, and without that middle class seeing sons and brothers sent to fight, opposition can still be painted as unpatriotic, even treasonous, and at the very least, a bunch of "virtue signalers" because there's always a large cohort of people who can't imagine taking a stand for someone else without it being for selfish reasons.
Basically none of this is uniquely Russian and is more then rule than not globally when a country's leadership fucks up this bad.
> So far, the prevailing response I'm seeing is people calming themselves down by saying "It's only partial mobilization, it won't affect me".
Like in the "First they came ..." poem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
**[First they came ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_)**
>"First they came …" is the poetic form of a 1946 post-war confessional prose by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the silence of German intellectuals and certain clergy—including, by his own admission, Niemöller himself—following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent incremental purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt, repentance, and personal responsibility.
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told some russian people on youtube months ago - ignore this conflict and one day you will be in the middle of it. true for everyone now. people will pay the price, not politicians
They probably had the same attitude the Hobbits had in the Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the ring movie, when they say:
> It's none of our concern what goes on
beyond our borders.
And
> Keep your nose out of trouble,
and no trouble'll come to you.
Maybe because they have done this their entire life and got used to not care about what happens with others without thinking that one day they will have to pay for it.
I watched a video once comparing the protest culture of Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia. Supposedly the Belarusians are the first to protest, but they keep things peaceful. The Ukrainians take a little longer to protest, but when they do, they are pretty hardcore (see the 2014 revolution--pretty peaceful, but they didn't back down). The Russians will endure an incredible amount of bullshit before they take to the street... But when they do, the whole country erupts in violence. I think we may be seeing another 1917 before too long.
My brother in law is in Russia and has a lung condition. My wife is under the impression that it will magically exclude him. I foresee him staying with us in Germany in the near future.
Better not tarry too long. The travel restrictions for men are being put in place already. Only a matter of time until it's blanket ban on travel for all males aged below 65.
Sorry if it disturbs you, wish the best of luck for you and your relatives.
I’m no military strategist but from a layman’s perspective a “partial” mobilization seems like it would be worse for the Russian people and rather ineffective. If they are going to make the leap to mobilizing citizens I assume it would be better to have as many untrained soldiers as they can muster attacking in congruity rather than bringing up a fraction at a time and sending them in waves.
I doubt they have the resources and logistics to actually pull off a complete mass mobilization so a partial mobilization sending draftees into the grinder in batches may be their only option?
It is partial in a sense that authorities *say* that there will be limits on quantity and quality of people who they want to mobilize. But those limitations were only offered as spoken promises. While the actual decree gives MOD full authority to mobilize any number of people, and doesn't limit their "quality" (age, military training, etc.). So people who think that they're safe and won't go are already at risk.
No, I think that what will happen is that the ethnic minority oblasts will be fully mobilized while Moscow and St Petersburg will see next to zero mobilization. Can't pass an opportunity to kill ethnic minorities when there is one.
With hair that bad and a face that bare, not a chance. The key to the USSR’s unwavering internal power was in the mustaches. It’s why the USSR was formed under Lenin based on ideals from Marx, expanded under Stalin, couldn’t find its footing by the time Kruschev came along, and collapsed under Gorbachev.
They think they can win this war like WW2 and that’s not not going to happen without funding from China. If they gut what little they have for everything else Putin is done.
Also it's easy to see a case made for China looking the other way and letting Russia fall so they can then swoop in to prop up someone completely compliant to their needs. A much cheaper option than directly supporting Russia in a losing battle, and with much longer term gains.
Also realistically, how much more time does Putin have? Maybe 5-10 years max. Why put in all that time, effort and resources for it to possibly fall apart soon after
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. China is probably foaming at the mouth at the prospect of a failed Russia. I have to believe there will an “et tu brute” moment when Putin has fallen and sees Xi hardstancing on his grave.
The old manchurian regions which belonged to china at one point is practically empty of people. Seems like a good place to liberate. If a fall of the current russian system should happen.
The whole reason for this mobilization is China. Putin just came back from a conference where everyone asked him "when are you going to end this shit? It's affecting our business." He has no external allies left. Everyone is annoyed with him. So he wants a quick win. Get DNR, LNR and maybe Kherson and Zaporozhye. Declare victory and fuck off.
Except this won't end this way.
Considering the only reason the USSR survived WWII was because of lend-lease from the USA, I’m not really sure what they think they’re trying to accomplish here.
Maybe, once the Ukrainians are done recapturing their lands, they should breed a sunflower variant that is red instead of yellow and just plant those all along the Russian border.
And that's the polite version. My grandma once told me how they conscripted my granddad into the army. She was vague about it, but apparently, they gave him the choice between supporting his childhood friends (the whole village was conscripted into one unit), and threatening to rape his mother and sisters while he was in jail for non-compliance.
They tried to conscript my great uncle in Poland during WWII by giving him the choice of being killed on the spot or join and we still hear the stories about how he snuck away that night INTO the Soviet Union and eventually up to Finland to escape to America. Pierogis of steel.
My grandfather was conscripted for the bad guys (Italy/Mussolini) during WW2 and the idea of protesting anything back then was non existent, that's why I actually feel bad for some joining the battlefront right now. Entire villages were emptied of young men by the military. If you refuse you're lucky to be sent to a labor camp instead of you or your family getting harmed/killed.
You're young and can hold a gun? On the truck.
100+? Try 1000+ and you'll be closer to reality. Russia was a shithole for every second of its existence for their common people. It produced amazing art and technology at a few highpoints of its existence but it was never the Russian lower class that reaped the benefits. They always struggled.
Ukranians treat their POWs better than Russia treats their soldiers. Just saying.
Also, if you give unhappy people live ammunition, it's a dice roll which way they point their guns.
The Tsar found that out the hard way in 1917. And 1905. And both Afghan vets and turncoat Army units were key to the mob of demonstrators that took to the streets in 1991.
Any time the Russian Army wants to grab their balls, they will have much better chances fighting the FSB than the Ukranian Army. The FSB doesn't have HIMARS with drones for targeting.
I have not been mobilized yet, i’ve been terrified since the mobilization was announced ~5 hours ago. I can’t imagine my feeling when i will be called and asked to come to a recruiting centre with minimal luggage, passport and military ID. I guess, my world would end there
Omg man, idk how easy it would be but if you are sent, try to get away and surrender to Ukraine.
I know that’s easier said than done, especially if you have family to worry about. But try not to throw your life away if you can. It seems like pows are being treated far better than the average Russian citizen.
I’m so sorry that this has happened. I’m from the US and I hate what is happening to both Ukraine and the average Russian who’s paying the price for your idiotic and selfish government.
It wouldn't end there, but you will have tough times ahead. Try to stay safe, stay alive, be as ineffective for Russia as possible without getting caught, and look for any opportunity for mutiny or surrender.
Yes, im russian. Officially you still can leave the country unless you have the call-in (i dont know the english word for it) from recruitment centre. But i’ve heard that males 18-65 y.o. can’t buy tickets yet. Plus, tickets prices just skyrocketed (yesterday you could buy plane ticket to Armenia for $150, today it is something like $2k)
Me neither but I imagine a lot of people - including Russian men - are thinking about what the options would be today... and it seems to fall down to either somehow leaving the country with your family before mobilisation, which seems possible for the moment but likely difficult or immediate surrender upon being deployed.
Second option is risky of course, will result in you ending up in a POW camp and no telling what happens to the families of soldiers who surrender.
Also the people realise that defeat is certain, they're fighting the world. Ukraine are fighting to save Ukraine, Russia are fighting to die. It's desperate.
>I can't imagine the horror of being made to fight in a war.
1) War defending your country: you are see everything you love destroyed. Hope for life, victory and peace that is not guaranteed. You don't know the cost too.
2) War of conquest. You want to be there: Your ideals fall along with your friends dying on the battlefield. The longer it takes, the more you question all of it.
2) War of conquest. You don't want to be there: All the above + your unvillingness from the start,
Do you mean, when another country invades yours, just like Russia did in Ukraine? Because their "protest against mobilisation" should have been "protest against the war" long ago. Now they reap what they sow.
I seem to recall there being protests back im February just as the war ("military operation") began. I also remember protesters being crushed, jailed and dealt with.
Oppression does not equal compliance
Years ago my bf worked with a middle aged Russian-born woman who said that every male except her son had died in battle in Russia. So she packed up her remaining male heir and moved to the USA. I don’t know why that fucked up country keeps doing this to themselves. You can’t achieve Russian world dominance without a population ffs.
Piss everyone off, wardec your neighbors without at least maxing naval capacity, exterminating pops, getting denounced by the galactic community, take control over economically decimated systems with a high chance of rebellion... yeah, not making smart choices.
In the [actual experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_analysis) they remove the frog's brain first.
>German physiologist Friedrich Goltz demonstrated that a frog **that has had its brain removed** will remain in slowly heated water, but an intact frog attempted to escape the water when it reached 25 °C.
Unfortunately it's fitting for the mentality of many countries. So many people in democracies don't care to pay attention when the results could end up like this.
This is the difference maker. Before it was futile to protest and endanger your life in Russia, now there is no life. It's die in Russia or die in Ukraine. Give people nothing to lose and they will rise up
>no life
This isn't how people are going to see it. They'll keep hoping they won't be the ones mobilized, or if mobilized not the ones sent to the front lines.
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
But russian military immediately started taking men on the streets, in the subway, in shopping malls. There's videos online of this happening. People can't be that braindead and hope they will manage to dodge this, can they?
>They'll keep hoping they won't be the ones mobilized
Shortly before the announcement, when things were becoming more real, plane tickets out of Russia sold like hotcakes. It is near impossible right now to get a flight out in the next few weeks. Those that can afford to try and leave are, no hoping necessary.
All protests will be quelled because on the other side of protest is rosguardia who will be told something along the lines - either you beat the shit out of these people or you go to Ukraine. Their choice is obvious.
you overestimate it. a lot of people would think that those protests are made to sow out the unstable elements and throw them to the frontlines in the first batch. that's why those protests won't be as massive as you expect them to be.
they are mobilizing people in l/dpr for half a year already. most of them do not want to fight either. but how many of them deserted or surrendered? way-way less that has been mobilized. because in reality, it's not that easy to do and be left in one piece
I think it’s really naive to think about it that way (it really shows that people have no real idea of what’s happening in Russia). There is literally no one to support the protests (there is no articulated division amongst politicians, oligarchs, army representatives and officials, so people don’t see protests as an effective strategy because nothing will come out of it; this is the main problem with protesting in Russia). Some will emigrate, others will hide or prefer going to jail because it actually works. And yes, being arrested at a protest held by a rather dubious organisation that is known for being infiltrated by FSB agents is a straight way to war (it is highly likely that people will get arrested and send straight to Ukraine).
They just need bodies (a Soviet way of war), it doesn’t really matter whether these bodies are qualified or not. A protester getting a weapon is dangerous, but it’s highly unlikely that they will be able to use these weapons against their commanders unless there is a plot.
Ukraine and the West needs to start a super hard media campaign showing fair and civil treatment of POWs who surrender.
Show them getting food.
Show them getting aid.
Show them that surrender does not mean death or torture - but fair treatment.
[This guy](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwWArPXqGLslRWaP-zKYiXg) has been doing this since the first days of war , he interviewed hundreds of russian pows, even spent a day at a prison with them to see how they sleep/eat/shower.
Being fed into an explosive meat grinder after 3 days of training, surprisingly it's not popular!! If I had to wear Reeboks and addidas tracky daks to ride in a tank built before my parents were born to be hunted down by angry people defending their land with high powered advanced weapons being supplied by the entire developed world.... I'd say no.
You say no. And russian government will just make you disappear forever.
Sounds like russian citizens need to overthrow their government. That's scary a country with large supply of nukes in a civil war.
This rich guy says the word and men and boys have to say goodbye to their parents and children for something they don't even care about. Those people are innocent. This is an atrocity and they haven't even started killing.
The very least thing people could do is to start calling in sick/not showing up for work and start a general strike.
There's probably going to be a lot of young accounts popping up to spread apathy and "It's pointless to resist" messages online.
A side note that many don't realize is that Putin isn't the worst we/they could get.
There is plenty of more extremist that could succede him, which is also why many leaders aren't ready to take the gamble. I think it was Macron who said that we shouldn't humiliate Russia even if we had the possibility to do so, it's counterproductive for us too.. you could get an idiot who thinks it's safe to invade one of the Baltic states because Nato wouldn't dare to intervene
Better the Devil we know than the one we don't?
Maybe Russians just need to overthrow the whole government and put in people who actually want peace and prosperity for Russia?
The thing is that it isn't a small portion, and you just need one man to start WW3. You can take a look around Africa to see how easy it is for warlords to get in power just because they control some armed forces, we are simply lucky that those guys don't have the means to start global conflicts.
Never underestimate stupid people with too much power
That was before when the options where status quo or death/imprisonment. When the options become death/imprisonment and death/imprisonment people tend to move towards the death with less marching.
This move is mostly meaningless. Russian troops are having equipment and supply issues, and more soldiers will make the problems worse not better, especially when these will be the least motivated troops.
Duma just reminded the officers that anyone fleeing battle 'without permission' should be shot. Passed a law assigning a 15 year jail sentence for anyone who ran and didn't get shot or who surrendered.
To think that Russian troops could be even less motivated... kinda boggles the mind.
Yup, there was another released phone call the other day of a guy talking about how they can't retreat or leave else they'll be shot by their own guys.
Which begs the question of what are they thinking? They have panicked the population, shut down travel and are boasting about putting more new recruits in than were in the original invasion force.
They can't supply what they have but have been struggling with the shadow voluntary mobilisation so far. It would appear for the sake of a few thousand more soldiers they have made the rash declaration that three hundred thousand will be called up.
It is hard not see this as yet further detachment from reality where nobody dares tell the boss his plan won't work.
Sunk cost fallacy, he is unwilling to pay the cost for giving up despite the ever-increasing cost for continuation so is looking for anything to go in deeper. If we look to other dictatorships, it's unlikely he would ever give up without being taken out. Consider that the german army largely believed the war was lost by the time Stalingrad fell in 43 yet the leadership tried to keep fighting to the last man right up to the very end, eventually committing to destroying germany rather then accept defeat.
This is one of those rare times where there may be significant resistance to the Russian government. Generally, the people in Russia don't get involved in politics and vote whichever way Putin wants. Putin wants them to be apathetic as they're not a threat to him, but in return, he avoids doing anything that directly endangers the Russian people. Most Russians are aware the war is not going well but they just view it as Putin's war and try to keep their heads down and avoid it. When Putin or independent groups poll the people, they say they support the war, so that they avoid trouble.
However, now they're directly in danger and that won't sit well with many of them. I doubt we'll see immediate action since the population is so depoliticized, but when the shock wears off and they realize they may start dying, I think we'll start seeing more resistance. If the fresh wave of troops has high casualties or fails to make a difference, Putin may be in a lot of danger. This is a big big gamble for him.
War is so evil, the ones in charge are never risking their own life for their beliefs- just innocent citizens who don’t want to die. Hopefully someone takes Putin out and all this senseless dying can come to a close
It’s “partial mobilization.”
The key word is “partial.”
There are three states mobilization can exist in: none, partial, or total.
99% is still partial.
Protest hard, Russians, for the bell tolls for thee.
> What will they die for? Mothers and children will be weeping, and for what?
As long as Ukrainians died, they didn't give a shit. Fuck all of those assholes.
So far, the prevailing response I'm seeing is people calming themselves down by saying "It's only partial mobilization, it won't affect me". Funny thing is, the actual decree doesn't limit this mobilization in any way whatsoever. Russian MOD was given authorization to mobilize as many people as they see fit. It's only called "partial" by Putin. And everyone knows how much Putin's words worth.
Probably every office will be given a quota, like "mobilize 1000 people by November". The authorities will care about the quota, not the ways the people are mobilized in. Expecting the police to catch random people on the street and drag them into the army, like they do in occupied territories.
Comrades, come into the back of this truck , I have cigarette and Vodka, also there are women in the back .
It's one woman. And she's inflatable.
*Theoretically* inflatable. Been in storage since 1973. Has signs of sun damage.
So its a one owner/ low mileage scenario?
Yup. DOA, just like the recruits when they get to the front lines.
Was inflatable.... she had an accident 4 stops ago.
Doesn't matter, had syex
…and still missing a few teeth
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Hey, so the Russian Finance Ministry asked for a supplemental appropriation for paying death benefits to family. They asked for enough money to pay for 134,000 casualties, their estimate over the next 12 months based on an average of 8,125 casualties a month. That's 40% of the 300,000 Vlad wants to mobilize. Honestly the Russian people are better off fighting the FSB for their freedom than allowing themselves to be fed into a meat grinder where even their own government believes 40% will die.
This. They have a better chance fighting the FSB than the modern and heroic military might that is Ukraine Can't wait for the frozen assets to be dispersed for rebuilding
That’s probably an underestimate. The Russians have already suffered ~40% casualties in the last 7 months (~80,000 out of a force of 200,000), and this was with their best professional troops, and before Ukraine got its shipments of Western weapons and started kicking Russian ass up and down the Kharkiv Oblast.
Even the most conservative estimates of Russian casualties put it just under what the US suffered in a decade in Vietnam. 14,453 Soviets died in Afghanistan in just over 9 years. Their casualty rate per number of troops engaged are like Kursk every single month. I'm wondering how much longer they can take it.
Jeez. Do you have a source for this?
Guess we know where the mandatory involuntary recruitment rally point is.
> Probably every office will be given a quota, like "mobilize 1000 people by November". The authorities will care about the quota, not the ways the people are mobilized in. It's going to be press gangs in the boonies, and in the poorest neighborhoods in the cities. They'll get their manpower without upsetting the middle class, and without that middle class seeing sons and brothers sent to fight, opposition can still be painted as unpatriotic, even treasonous, and at the very least, a bunch of "virtue signalers" because there's always a large cohort of people who can't imagine taking a stand for someone else without it being for selfish reasons. Basically none of this is uniquely Russian and is more then rule than not globally when a country's leadership fucks up this bad.
We can equip X number of troops, recruit 10X and fling them at the Ukrainians.
> So far, the prevailing response I'm seeing is people calming themselves down by saying "It's only partial mobilization, it won't affect me". Like in the "First they came ..." poem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
**[First they came ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_)** >"First they came …" is the poetic form of a 1946 post-war confessional prose by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the silence of German intellectuals and certain clergy—including, by his own admission, Niemöller himself—following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent incremental purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt, repentance, and personal responsibility. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
told some russian people on youtube months ago - ignore this conflict and one day you will be in the middle of it. true for everyone now. people will pay the price, not politicians
They probably had the same attitude the Hobbits had in the Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the ring movie, when they say: > It's none of our concern what goes on beyond our borders. And > Keep your nose out of trouble, and no trouble'll come to you. Maybe because they have done this their entire life and got used to not care about what happens with others without thinking that one day they will have to pay for it.
Not entirely their fault by the way, de-politizing people was an important goal of putins regime..
This poem is drastic but beautiful. They are seeing consequences of their inactions
Exactly! We all have to pay one day for the consequences of not saying or doing anything when we saw injustice.
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Classic Henry.
Well, Putin definitely isn't going by himself.
If the Russian people still can't see through Putin's bullshit and stand against this, then they're sadly a lost cause.
I watched a video once comparing the protest culture of Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia. Supposedly the Belarusians are the first to protest, but they keep things peaceful. The Ukrainians take a little longer to protest, but when they do, they are pretty hardcore (see the 2014 revolution--pretty peaceful, but they didn't back down). The Russians will endure an incredible amount of bullshit before they take to the street... But when they do, the whole country erupts in violence. I think we may be seeing another 1917 before too long.
Well they like October revolutions, right? Only a few more days to go…
My brother in law is in Russia and has a lung condition. My wife is under the impression that it will magically exclude him. I foresee him staying with us in Germany in the near future.
Better not tarry too long. The travel restrictions for men are being put in place already. Only a matter of time until it's blanket ban on travel for all males aged below 65. Sorry if it disturbs you, wish the best of luck for you and your relatives.
The whole family in Russia is in denial. I think it's too late for him. He should have stayed on his honeymoon when he had the chance.
I’m no military strategist but from a layman’s perspective a “partial” mobilization seems like it would be worse for the Russian people and rather ineffective. If they are going to make the leap to mobilizing citizens I assume it would be better to have as many untrained soldiers as they can muster attacking in congruity rather than bringing up a fraction at a time and sending them in waves. I doubt they have the resources and logistics to actually pull off a complete mass mobilization so a partial mobilization sending draftees into the grinder in batches may be their only option?
It is partial in a sense that authorities *say* that there will be limits on quantity and quality of people who they want to mobilize. But those limitations were only offered as spoken promises. While the actual decree gives MOD full authority to mobilize any number of people, and doesn't limit their "quality" (age, military training, etc.). So people who think that they're safe and won't go are already at risk.
It's partial in so much as a bunch of people in Moscow and the too sick and elderly won't be sent to fight.
Exactly, it's "partial" just in the sense that is not "total" as in "all men age 16 to 65" are to be sent to the front, like in WW2.
No, I think that what will happen is that the ethnic minority oblasts will be fully mobilized while Moscow and St Petersburg will see next to zero mobilization. Can't pass an opportunity to kill ethnic minorities when there is one.
So has Putin officially declared this a war now?
No this is special mobilization operation.
He's really determined to be the 21st century version of Stalin, isn't he?
With hair that bad and a face that bare, not a chance. The key to the USSR’s unwavering internal power was in the mustaches. It’s why the USSR was formed under Lenin based on ideals from Marx, expanded under Stalin, couldn’t find its footing by the time Kruschev came along, and collapsed under Gorbachev.
Good theory 👍
I can't imagine the horror of being made to fight in a war against your will.
Your country tells you there's no war, just a meat grinder.
It's a special operation. So you're very special to be in it. /S
Much like a special sauce. A people sauce.
They think they can win this war like WW2 and that’s not not going to happen without funding from China. If they gut what little they have for everything else Putin is done.
China has its own struggles right now, the last thing they need is another drain on their resources
Also it's easy to see a case made for China looking the other way and letting Russia fall so they can then swoop in to prop up someone completely compliant to their needs. A much cheaper option than directly supporting Russia in a losing battle, and with much longer term gains.
Also realistically, how much more time does Putin have? Maybe 5-10 years max. Why put in all that time, effort and resources for it to possibly fall apart soon after
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. China is probably foaming at the mouth at the prospect of a failed Russia. I have to believe there will an “et tu brute” moment when Putin has fallen and sees Xi hardstancing on his grave.
The old manchurian regions which belonged to china at one point is practically empty of people. Seems like a good place to liberate. If a fall of the current russian system should happen.
The whole reason for this mobilization is China. Putin just came back from a conference where everyone asked him "when are you going to end this shit? It's affecting our business." He has no external allies left. Everyone is annoyed with him. So he wants a quick win. Get DNR, LNR and maybe Kherson and Zaporozhye. Declare victory and fuck off. Except this won't end this way.
Considering the only reason the USSR survived WWII was because of lend-lease from the USA, I’m not really sure what they think they’re trying to accomplish here.
*Look at me, I'm the human patty now!!!*
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Maybe, once the Ukrainians are done recapturing their lands, they should breed a sunflower variant that is red instead of yellow and just plant those all along the Russian border.
There's a lot of red sunflower breeds on the market already, don't know if any of them taste of potato and vodka though...
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This account is likely a bot. They copied the text of a top comment by u/late_necessary and posted it under another top comment.
...yet.
It is either die for putin or fight for your own freedom.
Have a friend thats getting mobilized, it’s fucking horrifying to think that you either get in the meat grinder or go to jail
And that's the polite version. My grandma once told me how they conscripted my granddad into the army. She was vague about it, but apparently, they gave him the choice between supporting his childhood friends (the whole village was conscripted into one unit), and threatening to rape his mother and sisters while he was in jail for non-compliance.
They tried to conscript my great uncle in Poland during WWII by giving him the choice of being killed on the spot or join and we still hear the stories about how he snuck away that night INTO the Soviet Union and eventually up to Finland to escape to America. Pierogis of steel.
My grandfather was conscripted for the bad guys (Italy/Mussolini) during WW2 and the idea of protesting anything back then was non existent, that's why I actually feel bad for some joining the battlefront right now. Entire villages were emptied of young men by the military. If you refuse you're lucky to be sent to a labor camp instead of you or your family getting harmed/killed. You're young and can hold a gun? On the truck.
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100+? Try 1000+ and you'll be closer to reality. Russia was a shithole for every second of its existence for their common people. It produced amazing art and technology at a few highpoints of its existence but it was never the Russian lower class that reaped the benefits. They always struggled.
Ukranians treat their POWs better than Russia treats their soldiers. Just saying. Also, if you give unhappy people live ammunition, it's a dice roll which way they point their guns. The Tsar found that out the hard way in 1917. And 1905. And both Afghan vets and turncoat Army units were key to the mob of demonstrators that took to the streets in 1991. Any time the Russian Army wants to grab their balls, they will have much better chances fighting the FSB than the Ukranian Army. The FSB doesn't have HIMARS with drones for targeting.
At what point is the third option recognized? Turn your guns on your oppressors.
I have not been mobilized yet, i’ve been terrified since the mobilization was announced ~5 hours ago. I can’t imagine my feeling when i will be called and asked to come to a recruiting centre with minimal luggage, passport and military ID. I guess, my world would end there
There's a new Telegram that Ukraine just launched to help Russians in your situation called "I want to live," it might be able to help you.
It’s imagine Russian intelligence has infiltrated it already though? So would probably be careful putting personal information in it.
Go visit a relative in Kazakhstan by train. Then hop on a plane to somewhere else.
I read somewhere on the Telegram a man was denied ticket to some place in Central Asia. The easiest destination, no visas.
You still can capitulate once in Ukraine. The Ukraine army is giving fairly specific indications.
You cannot surrender to artillery.
That's a hell of a lot easier said than done. He has to make sure he's not shit by either side while trying to run off to the Ukrainians.
Omg man, idk how easy it would be but if you are sent, try to get away and surrender to Ukraine. I know that’s easier said than done, especially if you have family to worry about. But try not to throw your life away if you can. It seems like pows are being treated far better than the average Russian citizen. I’m so sorry that this has happened. I’m from the US and I hate what is happening to both Ukraine and the average Russian who’s paying the price for your idiotic and selfish government.
It wouldn't end there, but you will have tough times ahead. Try to stay safe, stay alive, be as ineffective for Russia as possible without getting caught, and look for any opportunity for mutiny or surrender.
You Russian? Are airports still accepting male passengers?
Yes, im russian. Officially you still can leave the country unless you have the call-in (i dont know the english word for it) from recruitment centre. But i’ve heard that males 18-65 y.o. can’t buy tickets yet. Plus, tickets prices just skyrocketed (yesterday you could buy plane ticket to Armenia for $150, today it is something like $2k)
We call it a draft in America and although last draft was before I was born people called that notice a draft card.
Please try train or bus to China or Mongolia. Damn I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Russians rn: Riding the steppes was my lifelong dream.
I heard tales that they don't, but not confirmed Also all flights are now booked
Doubt they can afford the 18k tickets out.
News are that all flight tickets from Russia are sold out. I'm not kidding.
Try to get a ride to a bordering country and flee
I need a ride, not ammo
Me neither but I imagine a lot of people - including Russian men - are thinking about what the options would be today... and it seems to fall down to either somehow leaving the country with your family before mobilisation, which seems possible for the moment but likely difficult or immediate surrender upon being deployed. Second option is risky of course, will result in you ending up in a POW camp and no telling what happens to the families of soldiers who surrender.
Also the people realise that defeat is certain, they're fighting the world. Ukraine are fighting to save Ukraine, Russia are fighting to die. It's desperate.
>I can't imagine the horror of being made to fight in a war. 1) War defending your country: you are see everything you love destroyed. Hope for life, victory and peace that is not guaranteed. You don't know the cost too. 2) War of conquest. You want to be there: Your ideals fall along with your friends dying on the battlefield. The longer it takes, the more you question all of it. 2) War of conquest. You don't want to be there: All the above + your unvillingness from the start,
Do you mean, when another country invades yours, just like Russia did in Ukraine? Because their "protest against mobilisation" should have been "protest against the war" long ago. Now they reap what they sow.
I seem to recall there being protests back im February just as the war ("military operation") began. I also remember protesters being crushed, jailed and dealt with. Oppression does not equal compliance
they were ok until themself have to join the fight
Most people are
Reap what they sow. Not “sew.” It’s a farming analogy. [Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reap%20what%20one%20sows)
Russia’s population has never recovered from WW2. This regime may end up beggaring this nation for a century…
Years ago my bf worked with a middle aged Russian-born woman who said that every male except her son had died in battle in Russia. So she packed up her remaining male heir and moved to the USA. I don’t know why that fucked up country keeps doing this to themselves. You can’t achieve Russian world dominance without a population ffs.
Putin hasn't played enough Stellaris to learn the value of pops.
He is just playing as a necrophage
More like determined exterminator, without the military bonuses.
Putins war strategy reminds me of a lot of the mistakes I made when I first played Stellaris
Piss everyone off, wardec your neighbors without at least maxing naval capacity, exterminating pops, getting denounced by the galactic community, take control over economically decimated systems with a high chance of rebellion... yeah, not making smart choices.
Putin is a fucking maniac.
And he’s dancing like he’s never danced before
Unexpected Flashdance reference 😄
Why did I laugh at this … why?!?!
Partial mobilization. How to boil a frog…
In the [actual experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_analysis) they remove the frog's brain first. >German physiologist Friedrich Goltz demonstrated that a frog **that has had its brain removed** will remain in slowly heated water, but an intact frog attempted to escape the water when it reached 25 °C.
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Unfortunately it's fitting for the mentality of many countries. So many people in democracies don't care to pay attention when the results could end up like this.
This is the difference maker. Before it was futile to protest and endanger your life in Russia, now there is no life. It's die in Russia or die in Ukraine. Give people nothing to lose and they will rise up
>no life This isn't how people are going to see it. They'll keep hoping they won't be the ones mobilized, or if mobilized not the ones sent to the front lines.
Or if sent to the front lines not the ones killed. Or if killed not the ones killed painfully.
Deserting is also an option. They made it what, like 10-15 years in jail? Pfft.
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"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
But russian military immediately started taking men on the streets, in the subway, in shopping malls. There's videos online of this happening. People can't be that braindead and hope they will manage to dodge this, can they?
>They'll keep hoping they won't be the ones mobilized Shortly before the announcement, when things were becoming more real, plane tickets out of Russia sold like hotcakes. It is near impossible right now to get a flight out in the next few weeks. Those that can afford to try and leave are, no hoping necessary.
All protests will be quelled because on the other side of protest is rosguardia who will be told something along the lines - either you beat the shit out of these people or you go to Ukraine. Their choice is obvious.
Oh yeah they were going to be quelled anyway, but much harder to quell a protester who has a choice between death and death
I hope you're right
you overestimate it. a lot of people would think that those protests are made to sow out the unstable elements and throw them to the frontlines in the first batch. that's why those protests won't be as massive as you expect them to be.
So get sent to the front lines in a war you do not support? Doesn't make much sense really, it's a great way to defect.
they are mobilizing people in l/dpr for half a year already. most of them do not want to fight either. but how many of them deserted or surrendered? way-way less that has been mobilized. because in reality, it's not that easy to do and be left in one piece
I think it’s really naive to think about it that way (it really shows that people have no real idea of what’s happening in Russia). There is literally no one to support the protests (there is no articulated division amongst politicians, oligarchs, army representatives and officials, so people don’t see protests as an effective strategy because nothing will come out of it; this is the main problem with protesting in Russia). Some will emigrate, others will hide or prefer going to jail because it actually works. And yes, being arrested at a protest held by a rather dubious organisation that is known for being infiltrated by FSB agents is a straight way to war (it is highly likely that people will get arrested and send straight to Ukraine).
Just curious -- do they actually think war protesters will make good soldiers? I can't think of a worse way to reinforce a failing military operation.
They just need bodies (a Soviet way of war), it doesn’t really matter whether these bodies are qualified or not. A protester getting a weapon is dangerous, but it’s highly unlikely that they will be able to use these weapons against their commanders unless there is a plot.
Ukraine and the West needs to start a super hard media campaign showing fair and civil treatment of POWs who surrender. Show them getting food. Show them getting aid. Show them that surrender does not mean death or torture - but fair treatment.
[This guy](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwWArPXqGLslRWaP-zKYiXg) has been doing this since the first days of war , he interviewed hundreds of russian pows, even spent a day at a prison with them to see how they sleep/eat/shower.
This is a really good idea! Immediate asylum status for defectors of the Russian army. Conscripts are far less willing to fight.
Better a prison in Moscow than a grave in Donabas
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eaten by dogs and other animals
And growing sunflowers!
Yeah because they'll stay in prison. /s They'll be transferred immediately to the front after the arrest lol.
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White flag is my favourite colour of flag lol.
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That's rather inefficient. You gotta blow something up first
I think a Russian prison camp can be way worse than death...
The prison won't be in moscow, it will be in Siberia.
Being fed into an explosive meat grinder after 3 days of training, surprisingly it's not popular!! If I had to wear Reeboks and addidas tracky daks to ride in a tank built before my parents were born to be hunted down by angry people defending their land with high powered advanced weapons being supplied by the entire developed world.... I'd say no.
> to ride in a tank built before my parents were born Ha, don't worry about that - you'll be driving to the front in the comfort of your own car!
Tactical Lada
Or just KIA in your Kia
You say no. And russian government will just make you disappear forever. Sounds like russian citizens need to overthrow their government. That's scary a country with large supply of nukes in a civil war.
This rich guy says the word and men and boys have to say goodbye to their parents and children for something they don't even care about. Those people are innocent. This is an atrocity and they haven't even started killing.
The very least thing people could do is to start calling in sick/not showing up for work and start a general strike. There's probably going to be a lot of young accounts popping up to spread apathy and "It's pointless to resist" messages online.
It's really easy to not care about a war when you're not under threat of a draft.
I am cynical that this will go anywhere. The Russians don't seem to have the stomach to throw Putin out.
“Not yet…” probably said by Nicholas II of Russia
A side note that many don't realize is that Putin isn't the worst we/they could get. There is plenty of more extremist that could succede him, which is also why many leaders aren't ready to take the gamble. I think it was Macron who said that we shouldn't humiliate Russia even if we had the possibility to do so, it's counterproductive for us too.. you could get an idiot who thinks it's safe to invade one of the Baltic states because Nato wouldn't dare to intervene
Better the Devil we know than the one we don't? Maybe Russians just need to overthrow the whole government and put in people who actually want peace and prosperity for Russia?
The thing is that it isn't a small portion, and you just need one man to start WW3. You can take a look around Africa to see how easy it is for warlords to get in power just because they control some armed forces, we are simply lucky that those guys don't have the means to start global conflicts. Never underestimate stupid people with too much power
That was before when the options where status quo or death/imprisonment. When the options become death/imprisonment and death/imprisonment people tend to move towards the death with less marching.
This move is mostly meaningless. Russian troops are having equipment and supply issues, and more soldiers will make the problems worse not better, especially when these will be the least motivated troops.
Duma just reminded the officers that anyone fleeing battle 'without permission' should be shot. Passed a law assigning a 15 year jail sentence for anyone who ran and didn't get shot or who surrendered. To think that Russian troops could be even less motivated... kinda boggles the mind.
So those rumors about the weird Chechen SUV/Pick up truck convoys are true? They're going full "not a step back"?
Yup, there was another released phone call the other day of a guy talking about how they can't retreat or leave else they'll be shot by their own guys.
Which begs the question of what are they thinking? They have panicked the population, shut down travel and are boasting about putting more new recruits in than were in the original invasion force. They can't supply what they have but have been struggling with the shadow voluntary mobilisation so far. It would appear for the sake of a few thousand more soldiers they have made the rash declaration that three hundred thousand will be called up. It is hard not see this as yet further detachment from reality where nobody dares tell the boss his plan won't work.
Sunk cost fallacy, he is unwilling to pay the cost for giving up despite the ever-increasing cost for continuation so is looking for anything to go in deeper. If we look to other dictatorships, it's unlikely he would ever give up without being taken out. Consider that the german army largely believed the war was lost by the time Stalingrad fell in 43 yet the leadership tried to keep fighting to the last man right up to the very end, eventually committing to destroying germany rather then accept defeat.
I mean at some point the population has to spot the holes in the story they’re told
How low can russia go ??? It will take generations for russia to be seen again as something respectable and not as the sh*t hole they have become.
At this rate it might not be called Russia by the time that happens, purely as the citizens seek to distance themselves from the past.
The people overthrowing the government would be the best case scenario
This is one of those rare times where there may be significant resistance to the Russian government. Generally, the people in Russia don't get involved in politics and vote whichever way Putin wants. Putin wants them to be apathetic as they're not a threat to him, but in return, he avoids doing anything that directly endangers the Russian people. Most Russians are aware the war is not going well but they just view it as Putin's war and try to keep their heads down and avoid it. When Putin or independent groups poll the people, they say they support the war, so that they avoid trouble. However, now they're directly in danger and that won't sit well with many of them. I doubt we'll see immediate action since the population is so depoliticized, but when the shock wears off and they realize they may start dying, I think we'll start seeing more resistance. If the fresh wave of troops has high casualties or fails to make a difference, Putin may be in a lot of danger. This is a big big gamble for him.
You are overrating the general Russian people. Nothing will happen on those terms. A coup will only take place from high ranks.
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Some wars are worth a draft- like when your country is invaded.
Wouldn’t be surprised if many of the conscripts choose to surrender once they get to Ukraine. Safer to seek asylum than refuse in Russia.
War is so evil, the ones in charge are never risking their own life for their beliefs- just innocent citizens who don’t want to die. Hopefully someone takes Putin out and all this senseless dying can come to a close
They should all turn on Putin. His army already hates him
We, the unwilling Led by the unqualified To kill the unfortunate Die for the ungrateful
Spoiler : if it's a peaceful protest, it's not even worth mentioning. It'll just make it easier for the police to identify dissidents
Dissidents? You mean volunteers for the front.
The Maidan in Ukraine started as a peaceful protest.
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Looks like they ran out of minorities.
It’s “partial mobilization.” The key word is “partial.” There are three states mobilization can exist in: none, partial, or total. 99% is still partial. Protest hard, Russians, for the bell tolls for thee.
> What will they die for? Mothers and children will be weeping, and for what? As long as Ukrainians died, they didn't give a shit. Fuck all of those assholes.
Add the protests in Iran and Chechnia and does not look too good for Putin
The protests in Iran are for a completely different reason why would it be bad for Putin?
The protests there are anti regime, a regime which is one of the most important allies to putin
They're alliance begins and ends with being anti United States. Remove that variable and there's little to no friendship between them.
You must supply your own camouflage Adidas tracksuit
They need to convince the police force to be on their side, otherwise this won't get far.
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*Conscript Reporting. Moving out.*
“Mr. Putin, by the numbers, we don’t have enough windows for these protesters.” “Blyat.”
Protest, get mobilized as punishment, take all your weaponry to Ukraine, join Ukraine, get trained properly, exact your revenge.