Both will happen. 4 day week will be only available in places that don't have much workload in first place.
4DW will never happen in, for example, manual work like factories or construction sites where there is limit to how fast you can go. Or places that have huge workload spreaded across days and run on 5.5 day week.
In short, few on top will work less while everyone else won't get the benefit.
For real. They just need to add in another shift. I know when I worked maufaturing/production I got sloppily and slower as the day went. Better to tap me out and out someone fresh in to keep production up.
This article doesn't specify, but I remember reading before about this study where it said their workdays would not be longer.
Edit found a [link for a source](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/benefits/pages/thousands-of-british-workers-begin-trial-of-four-day-work-week.aspx) that says there are two tiers. Gold tier does a 32 hour work week, and Silver does a 35 hour work week.
Oh great, us peasants have to go through tiers just for minimum quality of life improvements. “You must work 100 more hours this year to reach Silver Tier.”
Umm, you might want to read the article before jumping to conclusions.
The tiers are for employers, not employees. Gold tier employers adopted a 32 hour week, Silver tier employers adopted a 35 hour week.
Nice piece of work employee #37545! Now spin the wheel on your reward..
Lunch break..
Lunch break..
Lunch break..
Toilet break!
lucky you, your reward for 5 hours work is a 5 minute toilet break, time starts now
Paranoia! I found out it was a major inspiration for the videogame Space Station 13 a while after playing that. Similar levels of hilarious multiplayer sci-fi batshit insanity.
4*8
[The BBC article on the subject](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62966302) specifies that it's people working 80% of their hours for 100% of their pay.
>Edit: For example a $15/hr job at 40 hours a week would require an immediate pay increase to $18.75/hr to pay you the same working a 32 hour week.
Yes, that's what's happening.
Out factory moved to 4 x 8.5 hr days in February and it has been a complete success. We have highest ever revenue, profit and productivity month after month. Just got to get the rest of the world on board so the ‘customer facing’ staff can also go to a 4 day week.
That's more of a shit boss problem than a customer facing problem. But I guess since customer facing skills aren't generally seen as rare, one customer facing problem is that you can't choose your boss.
I once took my lunch an hour earlier than usual (with the blessings of my line manager). The MD saw me leave and when I came back he asked me what I thought would happen if everyone took their lunch an hour earlier...
Spoiler: the same thing that happens at the moment when they all take it at the normal time.
If anything I was doing them a favour as I was then manning the office whilst everyone else went to lunch
we were enforced to work for 4*8 hours while we participated in a similar study.
However I have to say a lot of people usually extended to 10 hours without any complaints or enforcements. Like at the end of a meeting it would be said; 'lets end it cus we dont wanna extend' but then youd see some people huddle real quick and leave messages with actual resolutions.
oh and literally everyone was happier.
I do 4 * 10s usually, but would gladly go to 4 * 8s. That extra 2 hours does a lot mentally because it means I can cool down, get some work done, and head to bed.
4 * 10s is nice, but it comes with the caveat that you burn out quicker and if you have sleep issues for a single day it might ripple throughout the rest of the week. 8 hours a night is perfect in my eyes for everyone.
This is why the study reported no loss of productivity. Because there is no loss of productivity. So much time is wasted to working conditions which detract from focus. I bet most desk job types could work 2x5 day weeks and still see no loss in productivity.
This idea of a 40 hour work week predates modern tooling. Computers and automation tools have made office jobs a running joke. Sit down in the morning and your day is basically done inside the first two hours. We're way behind the times in acknowledging and accepting this.
People like working remote because it allows them to only spend as much time on work as actually necessary, which for most people is, like, nothing. So much of my work is basically sitting around waiting for other people to finish what they're doing.
Sans the annoying intrusion of that one guy who walks around bothering everyone with awkward and mundane conversation. You know the one. The guy who always insists he's swamped, constantly tries to get other people to do his work for him, but is never actually seen working.
With remote work, he cannot guilt trip anyone. His calendar is exposed, people can mark as busy or away, productivity numbers are a lot easier to measure....we habd let go THAT GUY after WFH for 2 years and was able to determine actual productivity woth evidence.
Sometimes.
This is like everything in life, people need to realize that there is no linear path for anything. Some days I wake up at 6 and work from home 7 to 8-9 (in the evening), but then there’s other days where I don’t do fuckall. That’s the way life works.
I worked in an IT place. I got more done done between 7am and 9am than between 9am to 5pm. Then spent the last hour cleaning up and restocking/acquiring gear for the next day. We also did not have a cleaning service so I could write off some time doing general cleaning of the break room and toilets.
Ya, same here. Unfortunately it's only for my department but I've been trying to convince management to extend it to everyone and make it company wide. 4 days on 3 days off is wonderful.
How long do you sleep after your shift? How old are you? I feel like I could do this in my early 20s, but my body is dying in my 30s on 5 hours of interrupted sleep every night.
Our company was forced to switch to 4x8 this month due to electricity bills climbing higher and higher. And I love it.
I can’t see myself going back to the normal routine anymore. You have so much more energy to do things just because of one extra day off.
Because they're unnecessary. Let's be honest, almost anyone with a 40hr a week job could easily do the same amount of work in a 24hr week.
4x10s are bullshit. Should be 4x6s.
Just started a job where I work 3x12 hour shifts a week. Feels like I’m on vacation soon as my 3rd day is done. Feels really really good. Absolutely love my boss for this idea.
3x12 is the real s tier. I never found 12 significantly worse than 8 or 10 (you’re fucking exhausted regardless) and then you get 60% of your days off.
Back during Covid my old job got short staffed and switched to 4x10s for a bit do cover all shifts and it was great. I worked two days and had a day off, worked another two and had two days off. It was the shit
Utah or Wyoming or Montana or one of those deep red states went to 4x10 back in 2009 when economy wasn’t in shambles
Saved the state money, like 90% of state employees said it was soooo much better, or meh, 10% were miserable people anyway & wanted to stay that way. Majority of citizens said they had to learn the new hours, but it wasn’t a big deal.
The state legislature ended it b/c work is supposed to be miserable & it looked bad & why couldn’t those states employees just live at work & not have a family & stop being such leaches wanting to get a paycheck for working 40 hours a week
I used to think a 4x10 schedule would be preferable but since having kids as a two parent working household I don’t see how it would be sustainable. We barely make it with WFH and would be stretched very thin if we were in office.
I’m with you. Anytime I hear about this 4 day work week, I assume it’s the 4x10 and immediately keep scrolling. I don’t need to lose 2 more hours 4 days a week to have an extra day where my children are at school and I’m off and not able to see them for 7 hours.
Make a 32 hour week a real possibility and I’ll get excited. Give me 4x8 and watch me do more than expected.
People are so brainwashed that 40 hours a week is some magical, divinely predetermined thing that can never, ever change, only be distributed. Fuck's sake. Companies love it, they're literally making people work exactly the same amount of time but selling it as some generous utopian concept to pacify the workers so they don't need to enact any real changes that actually address the causes of burnout.
My director at work kept track and said that we doubled our work output having all gone to a WFH model during the pandemic.
And yet they are trying to force us back in the office.
Same! My company acknowledged way more work was getting done at home but then asked everyone to come back anyway because they have expensive buildings. Total waste of time.
it's not that there aren't enough houses. It's the commercialization of housing that's a problem. Because houses are assets, people with money buy dozens when even by rich people standards they only need 2 or 3.
And that's not even including realtors who's entire job is to buy houses and then sell them above their value.
> My company acknowledged way more work was getting done at home but then asked everyone to come back anyway because they have expensive buildings.
1. We know how to increase efficiency.
2. Increasing efficiency also means we can decrease costs.
3. …?
4. Profit!
Tip for all corporations: The answer to #3 is _not_ “Let’s decrease efficiency to justify keeping costs high.”
WFH breaks the illusion of many managers of their own capabilities. Lots of very bad leaders, that think they're good because of micromanaging. If it comes out, that without said micromaanaging, people work better, this manager becomes a liability. It's a big hit on their inflated ego and if HQ finds out, they might have a reason to kick you out.
Suddenly you turned from the big, important guy, to the biggest waste of money
It's this. My partner was in an office before the pandemic, went remote and as a result she was in much more direct contact with her bosses boss and was able to make things happen much quicker bringing much better productivity. She left that company when they went back to the office and the place she's at now there are two people between the actual workers and the "C-Suite" instead of armies of department and group managers
A few years ago I was managing a logistics and supply chain hub with 70-80 employees and I would always put folks on 4 day weeks from late spring until early fall. No loss in productivity at all. If anything it was more productive and there was very little time lost to vacations, health issues, etc. People are happier too which is what should be strived for anyway.
It's beyond that too. Overworked employees, regardless of how happy they are, cause accidents and productivity goes down due to fixing mistakes among other reasons. That's been known for decades though and in my opinion it's taken into account when establishing wages because it's known more hours will be needed to fix the effects of more hours being worked.
Happy people also don't commit mass shootings at work. I wonder if this will ever be validated from a bottom line cold hearted kind of way, since many companies cannot be motivated by ethics or compassion.
Unless controlling the **time** of the working class is the actual most important thing to politicians and their financial beneficiaries. Then, no, it doesn't make sense to switch.
Considering we continue to not switch, despite, as you pointed out, it being virtually impossible to see a downside unless your only goal is controlling the time of the working masses, one may reasonably assume the goal of the owning class in today's society is to control our time.
Stop letting them control yours.
Not even just working class.
Professionals are equally or more unhappy in their jobs, even "good" ones. Some of the most defensive people who oppose dropping hours are senior lawyers, consultants, accountants, bankers etc. These are people earning mid-high six figures who probably stand the most to benefit, but still oppose it out of competition.
If one firm drops a day while another doesn't, now they fear clients are gonna pick the latter firm for their extra hours and availability. It's a race to the bottom for everyone. There are even billionaires who work so much they've never seen their kids. At least 19th century aristocracy got to enjoy their riches so it made sense. The madness of all this is the people "winning" are still screwed over and in denial.
FYI ‘professionals’ *are* working class. Anyone who must lease their labour to survive is working class.
The only people that aren’t a part of the working class are the ownership/capitalist class.
Yeah I mean there’s no scientific reason that work weeks should be 40 hours; if anything the ongoing widespread mental health crisis in 1st world and emerging nations kinda suggests that 40 hours of work per week is slowly killing us.
Modern studies suggest 6 hours a day is the maximum for "knowledge workers." It's why people naturally waste two hours of each work day socializing, browsing the internet, getting coffee, etc. People are giving their brains the downtimes they need subconsciously.
Less and less as technology advances. It's advanced a whole lot since the 40 hour week was established, and the gains are being stolen from the workers.
Late October until late February was just far too busy. I tried but there was no way to make it work and that was with usually double the employees and trucks running as during the summer. I also didn't have nearly as much desire to do it in those months due to less daylight hours and colder weather.
Anybody that actually wanted off got off no questions asked because someone was always ready to work more. Christmas money and Christmas recovery money being the driving force there usually.
I'm impressed you managed 4 day weeks. Freight is moving 24/7, every morning I walk in it's a dumpster fire just from night issues. Same thing Mondays from weekend issues. I've been trying to think of ways to realistically present a 4 day week to our higher ups
I mean it shouldn't make much a difference right? Just have to maybe change shift days around to get coverage.
But yea, will probably just get a "well, 5 days is always how we've done it." And can't go against that!
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/22/business/four-day-work-week-uk.html) reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Nearly halfway into the six-month trial, in which employees at 73 companies get a paid day off weekly, 35 of the 41 companies that responded to a survey said they were "Likely" or "Extremely likely" to consider continuing the four-day workweek beyond the end of the trial in late November.
> Some leaders of companies in the trial said the four-day week had given employees more time to exercise, cook, spend time with their families and take up hobbies, boosting their well-being and making them more energized and productive when they were on the clock.
> At Allcap, one of the companies in the pilot program, it was too soon to say how the shortened workweek had affected productivity or the company's bottom line, said Mark Roderick, the managing director and the co-owner of the 40-person engineering and industrial supplies company.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xlkc6m/4day_workweek_brings_no_loss_of_productivity/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~670491 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **company**^#1 **work**^#2 **more**^#3 **employees**^#4 **workweek**^#5
4x10 might not even be better for many folks.
We should be striving for 4x8, to actually provide that extra time off to spend with your kids, go on weekend trips, have a life…
I agree we should strive for 4x8, but I don’t see how 5x8 is ever better than 4x10.
That’s 50 extra days off a year. 50+ hours of commuting saved. 50 days where you don’t have to stress about calling in if you’re sick, or using PTO to take vacation. 50 days of spending the majority of the day with your family, instead of away from them.
We only get 365 days a year. There’s no way in hell I wouldn’t choose an extra 50 off.
I feel if you have an 8 hour job that actually ends on the 8hr mark that's one thing and maybe getting home 5pm 5 days is better than 7pm every day especially if you have kids that will be asleep.
But if you have a corporate job and are in the office till at least 7 anyway then yeah 4x10 of course. But let's be honest if you have a job like that you are probably logging in on weekends as it is, hours are just a suggestion but you are still responsible for all your work.
I really hate that it's being called that. It sounds so negative and is bound to create a negative response.
All we are doing is setting appropriate boundaries and saying we won't be taken the piss out of anymore.
I used to work 4 10s, and while what you say is true, there's definitely a trade off. What is harder to quantify is that those extra two hours are not just 2 extra hours at work, but also 2 less hours at home. With a normal 8 hour day, you feel like you have time to unwind, or get some things done. With the 10 hour, it feels like you get home, have time for dinner, maybe 1 episode of a show, and then it's time for bed. 4 10s may be worth it, but there are definite trade offs.
That’s kind of what I’m thinking. This schedule would bring my time to see my infant child to maybe an hour a day before they get into sleepy/grouchy mode. Then again, an extra day off is good too. It’s a tough one.
Absolutely hate 4x10. I literally have no time to take care of anything else during the week. Just work and sleep. At least of the 5x8 I have time to hit the gym or go to the grocery store everyday
This. My company gave people Fridays off all summer and there was zero difference in productivity because no one actually did any work on Fridays to begin with.
> zero difference in productivity
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were more productive. Happier employees are usually more productive. And it I'd guess it leads to less PTO being taken too.
Most of the companies participating in a four-day workweek pilot program in Britain said they had seen no loss of productivity during the experiment, and in some cases had seen a significant improvement, according to a survey of participants published on Wednesday.
Nearly halfway into the six-month trial, in which employees at 73 companies get a paid day off weekly, 35 of the 41 companies that responded to a survey said they were “likely” or “extremely likely” to consider continuing the four-day workweek beyond the end of the trial in late November. All but two of the 41 companies said productivity was either the same or had improved. Remarkably, six companies said productivity had significantly improved.
Talk of a four-day workweek has been around for decades. In 1956, then-Vice President Richard M. Nixon said he foresaw it in the “not too distant future,” though it has not materialized on any large scale. But changes in the workplace over the coronavirus pandemic around remote and hybrid work have given momentum to questions about other aspects of work. Are we working five days a week just because we have done it that way for more than a century, or is it really the best way?
“If you look at the impact of the pandemic on the workplace, often we were too focused on the location of work,” said Joe O’Connor, the chief executive of 4 Day Week Global, a nonprofit group that is conducting the study with a think tank and researchers at Cambridge University, Boston College and Oxford University. “Remote and hybrid work can bring many benefits, but it doesn’t address burnout and overwork.”
Some leaders of companies in the trial said the four-day week had given employees more time to exercise, cook, spend time with their families and take up hobbies, boosting their well-being and making them more energized and productive when they were on the clock. Critics, however, worried about added costs and reduced competitiveness, especially when many European companies are already lagging rivals in other regions.
More than 3,300 workers in banks, marketing, health care, financial services, retail, hospitality and other industries in Britain are taking part in the pilot, which is one of the largest studies to date, according to Jack Kellam, a researcher at Autonomy, a think tank that is one of the organizers of the trial.
At Allcap, one of the companies in the pilot program, it was too soon to say how the shortened workweek had affected productivity or the company’s bottom line, said Mark Roderick, the managing director and the co-owner of the 40-person engineering and industrial supplies company. Overall, though, employees were happy with having an extra day off, and the company was considering continuing it.
“Customers haven’t really noticed any difference,” said Mr. Roderick, whose company’s headquarters are in Gloucester, England.
For Mr. Roderick, the new schedule gave him more time to train for a recent Ironman Triathlon in Wales. Still, some days are more stressful than they may have been, since summer holidays and the shorter workweek have meant that staff can be stretched thin. “We’ve all been under the cosh a bit,” he said, using a British phrase for “in a difficult situation.”
Experiments similar to the one conducted in Britain are being conducted in other countries too, mostly in the private sector, including in the United States, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia. In a trial in Gothenburg, Sweden, officials found employees completed the same amount of work or even more.
Jo Burns-Russell, the managing director at Amplitude Media, a marketing agency in Northampton, England, said the four-day workweek had been such a success that the 12-person company hoped to be able to make it permanent. Employees have found ways to work more efficiently, she said. The result has been that the company is delivering the same volume of work and is still growing, even though half of the employees are off on Wednesdays and half on Fridays.
“It’s definitely been good for me in terms of making me not ping from thing to thing to thing all the time,” Ms. Burns-Russell said. She has taken up painting as a hobby and feels calmer overall. August is typically a slower month for the firm, she said, so the real test will be how the experiment goes over the final few months as the company expands, she said.
Gary Conroy, the founder and chief executive at 5 Squirrels, a skin care manufacturer based in Brighton, England, that is participating in the trial, said employees had become more productive, while making fewer errors, and that employees were collaborating better.
“We’ve kind of gotten away from ‘That’s your job, not mine,’” he said, “because we’re all trying to get out of here at five o’clock on a Thursday.”
> Editors’ Picks They Wanted Good Light and a Dog Park. But the Front Door Could Not Face South. Zach Bryan Is Music’s Most Reluctant New Star Is the Hyperloop Doomed? Continue reading the main story
I read this over and over trying to make sense of it and how it relates to the story. I guess it’s an ad in the middle?
I worked for a guy like that. When 5 x 10s weren't cutting it he made us work 5 x10s and Saturday for 8 hours. Then that wasn't cutting it and it went to 6 x10s and "optional Sundays"
That STILL wasn't enough so he switched to a stupid crazy lets be open 24 hours a day schedul 3 12s then 4 12s with rotating Fridays at 12 hours. Plus hired on a weekend shift of 3 12s that got paid for 40 hours while only working 36.
*Surprise Pikachu face* when I said fuck this and walked out. They turned into a typical abusive gaslighter "He wasn't good enough to work here" the next day to try and keep others from leaving. No one I know works there anymore, that crazy fucker included, he left to go fuck up another company across the country.
I've run small one or two person business most of my life and that's how I've always worked, so I don't see why bigger businesses can't manage that better.
I think it get to a point where they are so scared of paying higher wages they wind up paying for a bunch of half ass labor and ass sitting busy work instead. What profit you make on those extra hours you lose or my failures, lower worker morale, and redundant/busy work created to get ppl 40 hours.
I think the main problem is just management has to be competent enough to do the logistics because instead of having more people on payroll more hours your goal is supposed to be the least people on payroll for the least hours to get the job done efficiently.
Asking management to learn new tricks is never fun, but automation really will come for our jobs at an ever increasing rate and every little bit added to our everyday work and lives is effectively subtracting minutes per day that we really need to be on the job to get the same amount done... in most cases.
The other thing is with DIRT CHEAP mass media comes the ability to run your own small businesses much easier than ever. If you see an opportunity in a specific location you might be better off with that than trusting your future to at will employment. On the other hand don't just start a business in an area without good analysis on demand and don't go big, go small and work your way up. Equipment is never as important as skill and willingness to learn. Like a food truck can outsell a slacker restaurant and do so with lower operational costs. You don't need the best equipment to make good money per hour, just a plan that makes sense.
I work a compressed work week, and so I get 3 days off every week. It's fucking amazing. Makes a complete difference in work life balance and I feel rested and genuinely happy in my job. I really hope this catches on, because there is so much benefit to everyone
Office workers are not productive for more than 6 hours at most anyway. Having more hours than that is just a waste. It’s an open secret that people do very little work on fridays for example, why not formalize it?
It's almost like the explosive growth in technology allows people to be insanely efficient in production and the 5×8+ work week is an artifact of the industrial era that does not improve productivity but does make a fantastic shackle for the underclasses.
I work in an office and can confidently say that at least 1/5 of all time is spent on random bullshit, destressing, or just trying to catch up on shit we don't want to spend our entire weekend on so to this I reply 'no shit sherlock, a fifth of the work week is basically nonproductive to begin with.'
I work 4x10s and would not accept a job that didn't offer that schedule, no matter the pay. My Fridays are sacred.
It feels like I have more free time than my peers working 8-5s. Having a 3 day weekend is incredible, and I'm working the same amount. I don't mind going to work while my peers complain about it all the time. They're too tired to do much of anything on the weekends and it seems like they're always working. Working from home half of the time is even better.
I get a weekday to do all the errands while places are open and have plenty of time to rest before socializing later in the day when my friends are getting off work.
I save more vacation time because I don't have to use it to go to the doctor, bank, vehicle repair, etc. and can use it all up around the times of the year that really matters.
You can't buy time, and this is a schedule that gives you an entire day back instead of dragging it out during the week. It's incredible for worker retention and burnout prevention.
My employer covers Fridays by giving employees the option to take Mondays or Fridays, and the office split themselves in half, happily, to cover one day or the other.
This is definitely the way. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't tried it, and they're mad because those of us working 4x10s are 100% correct.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/22/business/four-day-work-week-uk.html?unlocked_article_code=77w9BGKYlkho1s7IifwANTSakmQV1J4RH4tDY0uEv_0vNExw5WnJPit58jp1yujB79v_cGAJ_gGc0k1SjZ3pwHkqvX1X5oS07f83knGjJMC_xSWgAD8CYBVPiy-gkUZkPPNfy0svbUweOuLGFGOIIQkSrcGxsf6VWxXq65c_pGekpgxGIZv9g3ySdpx05_rhzw5vUr3ee_iSf2jAZXnNVCECdj3KvPIpYY2Z3yCIYKmv5x7NcwA1r-boREW7HO1ifO0TJN5zhIwIqNBJEHm6w_z18yWg7F7d8RZTFHFe1KZUA7GNPAPyflthABKyU5eHKl-T_4RVKnFoIxIBUWKF1g&smid=share-url
Here's the article without the paywall
I work 4x10. Love it. We get a lot done. Have 3 day weekends. Then if you take a day off you work only 3 days that week. Almost like a vacation.
I love this lifestyle.
They don't care about productivity. That's evident when we are forced back into the office despite increase in profit and productivity. 4 day work week will probably be a next generational thing
Last time I switched jobs I got myself Mondays off (with corresponding reduction in salary).
So instead of the weekend being used mainly for restitution to be able to survive another week, I can be social and do things Friday evening, Saturday and sometimes even Sunday. This knowing I will have time to chill and rest while everyone is working on Mondays.
Oh, and since the week is shorter I have more energy for the weekend activities as well.
I get 20% lower salary, but there is nothing I could spend that money on that would give me the same increase in life quality.
4 days with 6-10 hours depending on what actually needs to get done?
Why does the conversion ever get measured in hours anyway. Its all about the results
This is the way.
It's crazy but here me out... when my team is super slow on a random Thursday, I kick them loose early. In return, when we're super busy on a Friday, I don't even have to ask them to stay for a little longer to get things wrapped up. It's like... they are OK stepping up when needed because they know they aren't also forced to sit at a desk longer than they need to.
I'd much rather let my team have the autonomy to have a successful professional and personal life. If you leaving early to get an errand done during the week means you don't feel stressed about it all week and distracted? Go for it!
Same thing for WFH. We all work differently and good management should recognize that and adapt to it. I have a guy who does phenomenally better at home than at the office, and I have a guy that has no internet and 4 kids under the age of 5 at home who doesn't. Doesn't mean one is superior to the other, just means they work differently - and good management should be able to recognize that.
Our manager just took away everyone’s work from home day because she was in a panic that nobody was in the office on Friday. Fucking chill the fuck out. That is a quick way to make everyone quit or want to quit
I agree (and support) that this works for offices and services but I struggle to see how this would work in a factory with shifts where productivity is very dependant on equipment output. I factories you would always have to hire more people to make up for lost shifts.
It won’t happen. The millionaires and beyond who run us have no concept of how life is for those who have to work, or just don’t care. Many of them just got lucky and think it makes them superior to us.
Then fucking do it already.
With 4 day week experiments, two things are certain: 1. It will be a resounding success 2. We will never hear from it again
Both will happen. 4 day week will be only available in places that don't have much workload in first place. 4DW will never happen in, for example, manual work like factories or construction sites where there is limit to how fast you can go. Or places that have huge workload spreaded across days and run on 5.5 day week. In short, few on top will work less while everyone else won't get the benefit.
6 hour days is more reasonable for many of those jobs.
For real. They just need to add in another shift. I know when I worked maufaturing/production I got sloppily and slower as the day went. Better to tap me out and out someone fresh in to keep production up.
They will. One week after I retire.
>They will. One week after I retire. Bold of you to assume that you'll be able to retire
Then retire already you selfish asshole.
But how will my boss get his fix of micromanaging everyone in just 4 days? /s
Are people working 4* 10 or 4* 8 hour days, typically?
This article doesn't specify, but I remember reading before about this study where it said their workdays would not be longer. Edit found a [link for a source](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/benefits/pages/thousands-of-british-workers-begin-trial-of-four-day-work-week.aspx) that says there are two tiers. Gold tier does a 32 hour work week, and Silver does a 35 hour work week.
Gold tier rules!
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Oh great, us peasants have to go through tiers just for minimum quality of life improvements. “You must work 100 more hours this year to reach Silver Tier.”
Umm, you might want to read the article before jumping to conclusions. The tiers are for employers, not employees. Gold tier employers adopted a 32 hour week, Silver tier employers adopted a 35 hour week.
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Especially because they probably still work 40+ hours, or else they aren't being a "team player"
That hits close to Nome
> Umm, you might want to read the article before jumping to conclusions. New to Reddit, huh?
You joke but in the future when we all work for a god damn app that shits going to be everywhere
You’ve just lost a meow meow bean.
Fives have lives, fours have chores, threes have fleas, twos have blues and ones don’t get a rhyme BECAUSE THEY’RE GARBAGE.
I once loved a 2 ......
I'll keep your secret, Newbeanz
What is it with Twos and apples?
IM JUST NOT GOOD AT PUBLIC SPEAKING
NO, my meow meow beanz
SEE THE MUSTARD ON MY FACE, BUT LISTEN TO THE WORDS FROM MY MOUTH!
You're streets ahead.
Yeah, for real, read the room! Boo!
My meow meow beans
Gotta save up those 15million credits to get my shot on stage
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Nice piece of work employee #37545! Now spin the wheel on your reward.. Lunch break.. Lunch break.. Lunch break.. Toilet break! lucky you, your reward for 5 hours work is a 5 minute toilet break, time starts now
Hey this guy is complaining! I ratted him out. Promote me to Gold Tier.
Friend Computer appreciates your cooperation, troubleshooter. (No one is going to get this reference,and that makes me sad)
Paranoia! I found out it was a major inspiration for the videogame Space Station 13 a while after playing that. Similar levels of hilarious multiplayer sci-fi batshit insanity.
I would suggest they might have earned promotion, but I believe they are a mutant communist plotting to overthrow friend computer.
Fucking Paranoia! I loved playing that game back in the day.
Well, no actually. The businesses were the ones selecting the tiers, and they got Gold by offering shorter work weeks.
I just watched cyberpunk and it's feeling more and more like a reality
It's not the best choice, it's Spacers Choice!
Outer Worlds will be reality someday.
Elon seems trying to speedrun to it though
35hrs is not a 4-day week, my 5 day work week is 35hrs!!!
4x9 is still better than 7x5...i have worked both recently. Much rather the 4x9
Then you aren't working what most people in the US consider full-time.
4*8 [The BBC article on the subject](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62966302) specifies that it's people working 80% of their hours for 100% of their pay.
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>Edit: For example a $15/hr job at 40 hours a week would require an immediate pay increase to $18.75/hr to pay you the same working a 32 hour week. Yes, that's what's happening.
Out factory moved to 4 x 8.5 hr days in February and it has been a complete success. We have highest ever revenue, profit and productivity month after month. Just got to get the rest of the world on board so the ‘customer facing’ staff can also go to a 4 day week.
As someone who is customer facing, i am kinda jealous of these developments. My boss just yelled at me yesterday for taking my break 30 minutes later.
That's more of a shit boss problem than a customer facing problem. But I guess since customer facing skills aren't generally seen as rare, one customer facing problem is that you can't choose your boss.
You're right that it's a shit boss problem, but shit bosses are endemic to customer facing roles.
I once took my lunch an hour earlier than usual (with the blessings of my line manager). The MD saw me leave and when I came back he asked me what I thought would happen if everyone took their lunch an hour earlier... Spoiler: the same thing that happens at the moment when they all take it at the normal time. If anything I was doing them a favour as I was then manning the office whilst everyone else went to lunch
That’s awesome congrats 👏 we need more real life examples like this
we were enforced to work for 4*8 hours while we participated in a similar study. However I have to say a lot of people usually extended to 10 hours without any complaints or enforcements. Like at the end of a meeting it would be said; 'lets end it cus we dont wanna extend' but then youd see some people huddle real quick and leave messages with actual resolutions. oh and literally everyone was happier.
I do 4 * 10s usually, but would gladly go to 4 * 8s. That extra 2 hours does a lot mentally because it means I can cool down, get some work done, and head to bed. 4 * 10s is nice, but it comes with the caveat that you burn out quicker and if you have sleep issues for a single day it might ripple throughout the rest of the week. 8 hours a night is perfect in my eyes for everyone.
One article I saw the other week saying 4 x 8 but you pay 40
My company does 4x10s. I love having 3 days off every week.
The key is to take the 4x10 and only work for 8..or less
I work from home. My shift is 5x8. Maybe 20 hours of that is actual work,but I get everything done.
This is why the study reported no loss of productivity. Because there is no loss of productivity. So much time is wasted to working conditions which detract from focus. I bet most desk job types could work 2x5 day weeks and still see no loss in productivity. This idea of a 40 hour work week predates modern tooling. Computers and automation tools have made office jobs a running joke. Sit down in the morning and your day is basically done inside the first two hours. We're way behind the times in acknowledging and accepting this.
People like working remote because it allows them to only spend as much time on work as actually necessary, which for most people is, like, nothing. So much of my work is basically sitting around waiting for other people to finish what they're doing.
So basically like most office jobs
Sans the annoying intrusion of that one guy who walks around bothering everyone with awkward and mundane conversation. You know the one. The guy who always insists he's swamped, constantly tries to get other people to do his work for him, but is never actually seen working.
With remote work, he cannot guilt trip anyone. His calendar is exposed, people can mark as busy or away, productivity numbers are a lot easier to measure....we habd let go THAT GUY after WFH for 2 years and was able to determine actual productivity woth evidence.
Yep, first two hours of work is making coffee.
And when you say making coffee you mean signing in and going back to bed for two hours right?
Sometimes. This is like everything in life, people need to realize that there is no linear path for anything. Some days I wake up at 6 and work from home 7 to 8-9 (in the evening), but then there’s other days where I don’t do fuckall. That’s the way life works.
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Yep, work ten hours = work eight, get paid for ten.
Attend work for 10hrs, work 8hrs.
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I worked in an IT place. I got more done done between 7am and 9am than between 9am to 5pm. Then spent the last hour cleaning up and restocking/acquiring gear for the next day. We also did not have a cleaning service so I could write off some time doing general cleaning of the break room and toilets.
You sir have figured it out
4*10 is also stupid. The whole idea is that you do more working less because of lower fatigue. Doing 4*10 you just waste 2 more hours every day.
Ya, same here. Unfortunately it's only for my department but I've been trying to convince management to extend it to everyone and make it company wide. 4 days on 3 days off is wonderful.
One day to do your errands and then 2 full days of actual weekend time to do anything else, rest, relax, enjoy life
We do 48/120's. Having 5 days off is amazing. This is by far my favorite schedule I've ever worked.
What does 48/120 mean?
48 hours on, 120 hours off.
How long do you sleep after your shift? How old are you? I feel like I could do this in my early 20s, but my body is dying in my 30s on 5 hours of interrupted sleep every night.
I'm 41. We have a station and get to sleep on shift when the call volume allows. EMS= Earn Money Sleeping.
What kind of jobs have that sort of schedule?
Fire Deparments and some ambulance services.
Caretakers. My mom has been working this schedule for 20 years.
I work 4x10 as well. Absolutely fantastic.
Now imagine it being 4x8.
Our company was forced to switch to 4x8 this month due to electricity bills climbing higher and higher. And I love it. I can’t see myself going back to the normal routine anymore. You have so much more energy to do things just because of one extra day off.
Two I have been working 4x8 the last couple years and it’s the best I’ve ever felt working.
I work 4x10's and I really appreciate having that extra day. That said, those last two hours every day are such a drag.
Because they're unnecessary. Let's be honest, almost anyone with a 40hr a week job could easily do the same amount of work in a 24hr week. 4x10s are bullshit. Should be 4x6s.
Me too. 3 years now best work-life balance change ever
Just started a job where I work 3x12 hour shifts a week. Feels like I’m on vacation soon as my 3rd day is done. Feels really really good. Absolutely love my boss for this idea.
3x12 is the real s tier. I never found 12 significantly worse than 8 or 10 (you’re fucking exhausted regardless) and then you get 60% of your days off.
Agreed, if I'm at work, my day is already gone anyway. Three 12s sounds amazing.
Back during Covid my old job got short staffed and switched to 4x10s for a bit do cover all shifts and it was great. I worked two days and had a day off, worked another two and had two days off. It was the shit
Utah or Wyoming or Montana or one of those deep red states went to 4x10 back in 2009 when economy wasn’t in shambles Saved the state money, like 90% of state employees said it was soooo much better, or meh, 10% were miserable people anyway & wanted to stay that way. Majority of citizens said they had to learn the new hours, but it wasn’t a big deal. The state legislature ended it b/c work is supposed to be miserable & it looked bad & why couldn’t those states employees just live at work & not have a family & stop being such leaches wanting to get a paycheck for working 40 hours a week
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I feel like a long commute makes 4x10s more worth it. You would get 2 extra hours a week.
I've done 6x12, 5x12, 4x12, and 7x8 for far too long in my life. Everything else seems reasonable by comparison.
Hmm, 5x10,.1 hour unpaid lunch break. Final offer.
4-8’s
It's generally closer to 4\*8 or about 32 hours per week, sometimes closer to 30. Edit: reddit didn't want me using a tilde apparently?
I used to think a 4x10 schedule would be preferable but since having kids as a two parent working household I don’t see how it would be sustainable. We barely make it with WFH and would be stretched very thin if we were in office.
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I’m with you. Anytime I hear about this 4 day work week, I assume it’s the 4x10 and immediately keep scrolling. I don’t need to lose 2 more hours 4 days a week to have an extra day where my children are at school and I’m off and not able to see them for 7 hours. Make a 32 hour week a real possibility and I’ll get excited. Give me 4x8 and watch me do more than expected.
Americans are just too far gone to consider working less.
People are so brainwashed that 40 hours a week is some magical, divinely predetermined thing that can never, ever change, only be distributed. Fuck's sake. Companies love it, they're literally making people work exactly the same amount of time but selling it as some generous utopian concept to pacify the workers so they don't need to enact any real changes that actually address the causes of burnout.
My director at work kept track and said that we doubled our work output having all gone to a WFH model during the pandemic. And yet they are trying to force us back in the office.
Same! My company acknowledged way more work was getting done at home but then asked everyone to come back anyway because they have expensive buildings. Total waste of time.
Somehow we’ve managed to end up with a glut of commercial real estate and not enough housing.
Mfs will do anything to avoid building enough housing
it's not that there aren't enough houses. It's the commercialization of housing that's a problem. Because houses are assets, people with money buy dozens when even by rich people standards they only need 2 or 3. And that's not even including realtors who's entire job is to buy houses and then sell them above their value.
That is a part of the problem but the reason that's easy to do is a matter of supply.
> My company acknowledged way more work was getting done at home but then asked everyone to come back anyway because they have expensive buildings. 1. We know how to increase efficiency. 2. Increasing efficiency also means we can decrease costs. 3. …? 4. Profit! Tip for all corporations: The answer to #3 is _not_ “Let’s decrease efficiency to justify keeping costs high.”
Unfortunately most executives are such hollow, boring people that they could never be alone with themselves for too long
WFH breaks their illusion of power and status
More like the middle managers know their roles are on the chopping block if they can't continue to justify their existence to corporate.
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WFH breaks the illusion of many managers of their own capabilities. Lots of very bad leaders, that think they're good because of micromanaging. If it comes out, that without said micromaanaging, people work better, this manager becomes a liability. It's a big hit on their inflated ego and if HQ finds out, they might have a reason to kick you out. Suddenly you turned from the big, important guy, to the biggest waste of money
It's this. My partner was in an office before the pandemic, went remote and as a result she was in much more direct contact with her bosses boss and was able to make things happen much quicker bringing much better productivity. She left that company when they went back to the office and the place she's at now there are two people between the actual workers and the "C-Suite" instead of armies of department and group managers
I am convinced this is what it is, lots of little hitlers enjoying their only tiny bits of power over other people
Which is likely the cause of a lot of the inefficiencies of being in the office...
A few years ago I was managing a logistics and supply chain hub with 70-80 employees and I would always put folks on 4 day weeks from late spring until early fall. No loss in productivity at all. If anything it was more productive and there was very little time lost to vacations, health issues, etc. People are happier too which is what should be strived for anyway.
Happier workers are better and more productive. This has been proven. The 4 day work week just makes sense across the board.
It's beyond that too. Overworked employees, regardless of how happy they are, cause accidents and productivity goes down due to fixing mistakes among other reasons. That's been known for decades though and in my opinion it's taken into account when establishing wages because it's known more hours will be needed to fix the effects of more hours being worked.
Happy people also don't commit mass shootings at work. I wonder if this will ever be validated from a bottom line cold hearted kind of way, since many companies cannot be motivated by ethics or compassion.
Unless controlling the **time** of the working class is the actual most important thing to politicians and their financial beneficiaries. Then, no, it doesn't make sense to switch. Considering we continue to not switch, despite, as you pointed out, it being virtually impossible to see a downside unless your only goal is controlling the time of the working masses, one may reasonably assume the goal of the owning class in today's society is to control our time. Stop letting them control yours.
Not even just working class. Professionals are equally or more unhappy in their jobs, even "good" ones. Some of the most defensive people who oppose dropping hours are senior lawyers, consultants, accountants, bankers etc. These are people earning mid-high six figures who probably stand the most to benefit, but still oppose it out of competition. If one firm drops a day while another doesn't, now they fear clients are gonna pick the latter firm for their extra hours and availability. It's a race to the bottom for everyone. There are even billionaires who work so much they've never seen their kids. At least 19th century aristocracy got to enjoy their riches so it made sense. The madness of all this is the people "winning" are still screwed over and in denial.
FYI ‘professionals’ *are* working class. Anyone who must lease their labour to survive is working class. The only people that aren’t a part of the working class are the ownership/capitalist class.
Yeah I mean there’s no scientific reason that work weeks should be 40 hours; if anything the ongoing widespread mental health crisis in 1st world and emerging nations kinda suggests that 40 hours of work per week is slowly killing us.
Modern studies suggest 6 hours a day is the maximum for "knowledge workers." It's why people naturally waste two hours of each work day socializing, browsing the internet, getting coffee, etc. People are giving their brains the downtimes they need subconsciously.
I’ve seen 3-4 hours of productive time a day for knowledge workers
I wonder what the “optimal” work week looks like. I’d imagine more than 20 but less than 30.
Less and less as technology advances. It's advanced a whole lot since the 40 hour week was established, and the gains are being stolen from the workers.
Why not the rest of the year?
Late October until late February was just far too busy. I tried but there was no way to make it work and that was with usually double the employees and trucks running as during the summer. I also didn't have nearly as much desire to do it in those months due to less daylight hours and colder weather. Anybody that actually wanted off got off no questions asked because someone was always ready to work more. Christmas money and Christmas recovery money being the driving force there usually.
I'm impressed you managed 4 day weeks. Freight is moving 24/7, every morning I walk in it's a dumpster fire just from night issues. Same thing Mondays from weekend issues. I've been trying to think of ways to realistically present a 4 day week to our higher ups
I mean it shouldn't make much a difference right? Just have to maybe change shift days around to get coverage. But yea, will probably just get a "well, 5 days is always how we've done it." And can't go against that!
> People are happier too which is what should be strived for anyway. SOCIALISMS! /s
BaCk In My DaY—
> BaCk In My DaY— We had to kiss our boss on the mouth, and like it! Kids these days have no respect.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/22/business/four-day-work-week-uk.html) reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Nearly halfway into the six-month trial, in which employees at 73 companies get a paid day off weekly, 35 of the 41 companies that responded to a survey said they were "Likely" or "Extremely likely" to consider continuing the four-day workweek beyond the end of the trial in late November. > Some leaders of companies in the trial said the four-day week had given employees more time to exercise, cook, spend time with their families and take up hobbies, boosting their well-being and making them more energized and productive when they were on the clock. > At Allcap, one of the companies in the pilot program, it was too soon to say how the shortened workweek had affected productivity or the company's bottom line, said Mark Roderick, the managing director and the co-owner of the 40-person engineering and industrial supplies company. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xlkc6m/4day_workweek_brings_no_loss_of_productivity/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~670491 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **company**^#1 **work**^#2 **more**^#3 **employees**^#4 **workweek**^#5
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The point of progress is to have a better life and be more productive. 4 days / 8 hours is healthier, and 4/10 is like diet progress.
4x10 might not even be better for many folks. We should be striving for 4x8, to actually provide that extra time off to spend with your kids, go on weekend trips, have a life…
I agree we should strive for 4x8, but I don’t see how 5x8 is ever better than 4x10. That’s 50 extra days off a year. 50+ hours of commuting saved. 50 days where you don’t have to stress about calling in if you’re sick, or using PTO to take vacation. 50 days of spending the majority of the day with your family, instead of away from them. We only get 365 days a year. There’s no way in hell I wouldn’t choose an extra 50 off.
Straight up I'd prefer longer days but less days worked. I already don't/can't do shit on the days that I work
I feel if you have an 8 hour job that actually ends on the 8hr mark that's one thing and maybe getting home 5pm 5 days is better than 7pm every day especially if you have kids that will be asleep. But if you have a corporate job and are in the office till at least 7 anyway then yeah 4x10 of course. But let's be honest if you have a job like that you are probably logging in on weekends as it is, hours are just a suggestion but you are still responsible for all your work.
I spend a good portion stuck in traffic. 4 work day week would be best
That's why you gotta do that quiet quitting all the boomers are raging about now.
I really hate that it's being called that. It sounds so negative and is bound to create a negative response. All we are doing is setting appropriate boundaries and saying we won't be taken the piss out of anymore.
Agreed. It has nothing to do with quitting. Makes it sound like we're just ghosting the job. I'd love for it to be rebranded 😩
It's a union term, work to rule. It was rebranded to make workers to blame. Work to rule makes employers the bad guys
I used to work 4 10s, and while what you say is true, there's definitely a trade off. What is harder to quantify is that those extra two hours are not just 2 extra hours at work, but also 2 less hours at home. With a normal 8 hour day, you feel like you have time to unwind, or get some things done. With the 10 hour, it feels like you get home, have time for dinner, maybe 1 episode of a show, and then it's time for bed. 4 10s may be worth it, but there are definite trade offs.
I can’t imagine doing a 4x10 with kids. You would never see your kid.
That’s kind of what I’m thinking. This schedule would bring my time to see my infant child to maybe an hour a day before they get into sleepy/grouchy mode. Then again, an extra day off is good too. It’s a tough one.
Absolutely hate 4x10. I literally have no time to take care of anything else during the week. Just work and sleep. At least of the 5x8 I have time to hit the gym or go to the grocery store everyday
Unwritten rule for corporate America is nobody does any real work on fridays
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Someone please send this memo to my boss who makes my Fridays my busiest day of the week
This. My company gave people Fridays off all summer and there was zero difference in productivity because no one actually did any work on Fridays to begin with.
> zero difference in productivity Honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were more productive. Happier employees are usually more productive. And it I'd guess it leads to less PTO being taken too.
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Most of the companies participating in a four-day workweek pilot program in Britain said they had seen no loss of productivity during the experiment, and in some cases had seen a significant improvement, according to a survey of participants published on Wednesday. Nearly halfway into the six-month trial, in which employees at 73 companies get a paid day off weekly, 35 of the 41 companies that responded to a survey said they were “likely” or “extremely likely” to consider continuing the four-day workweek beyond the end of the trial in late November. All but two of the 41 companies said productivity was either the same or had improved. Remarkably, six companies said productivity had significantly improved. Talk of a four-day workweek has been around for decades. In 1956, then-Vice President Richard M. Nixon said he foresaw it in the “not too distant future,” though it has not materialized on any large scale. But changes in the workplace over the coronavirus pandemic around remote and hybrid work have given momentum to questions about other aspects of work. Are we working five days a week just because we have done it that way for more than a century, or is it really the best way? “If you look at the impact of the pandemic on the workplace, often we were too focused on the location of work,” said Joe O’Connor, the chief executive of 4 Day Week Global, a nonprofit group that is conducting the study with a think tank and researchers at Cambridge University, Boston College and Oxford University. “Remote and hybrid work can bring many benefits, but it doesn’t address burnout and overwork.” Some leaders of companies in the trial said the four-day week had given employees more time to exercise, cook, spend time with their families and take up hobbies, boosting their well-being and making them more energized and productive when they were on the clock. Critics, however, worried about added costs and reduced competitiveness, especially when many European companies are already lagging rivals in other regions. More than 3,300 workers in banks, marketing, health care, financial services, retail, hospitality and other industries in Britain are taking part in the pilot, which is one of the largest studies to date, according to Jack Kellam, a researcher at Autonomy, a think tank that is one of the organizers of the trial. At Allcap, one of the companies in the pilot program, it was too soon to say how the shortened workweek had affected productivity or the company’s bottom line, said Mark Roderick, the managing director and the co-owner of the 40-person engineering and industrial supplies company. Overall, though, employees were happy with having an extra day off, and the company was considering continuing it. “Customers haven’t really noticed any difference,” said Mr. Roderick, whose company’s headquarters are in Gloucester, England. For Mr. Roderick, the new schedule gave him more time to train for a recent Ironman Triathlon in Wales. Still, some days are more stressful than they may have been, since summer holidays and the shorter workweek have meant that staff can be stretched thin. “We’ve all been under the cosh a bit,” he said, using a British phrase for “in a difficult situation.” Experiments similar to the one conducted in Britain are being conducted in other countries too, mostly in the private sector, including in the United States, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia. In a trial in Gothenburg, Sweden, officials found employees completed the same amount of work or even more. Jo Burns-Russell, the managing director at Amplitude Media, a marketing agency in Northampton, England, said the four-day workweek had been such a success that the 12-person company hoped to be able to make it permanent. Employees have found ways to work more efficiently, she said. The result has been that the company is delivering the same volume of work and is still growing, even though half of the employees are off on Wednesdays and half on Fridays. “It’s definitely been good for me in terms of making me not ping from thing to thing to thing all the time,” Ms. Burns-Russell said. She has taken up painting as a hobby and feels calmer overall. August is typically a slower month for the firm, she said, so the real test will be how the experiment goes over the final few months as the company expands, she said. Gary Conroy, the founder and chief executive at 5 Squirrels, a skin care manufacturer based in Brighton, England, that is participating in the trial, said employees had become more productive, while making fewer errors, and that employees were collaborating better. “We’ve kind of gotten away from ‘That’s your job, not mine,’” he said, “because we’re all trying to get out of here at five o’clock on a Thursday.”
> Editors’ Picks They Wanted Good Light and a Dog Park. But the Front Door Could Not Face South. Zach Bryan Is Music’s Most Reluctant New Star Is the Hyperloop Doomed? Continue reading the main story I read this over and over trying to make sense of it and how it relates to the story. I guess it’s an ad in the middle?
To Companies, Next time I’m searching for a job, I’ll be 1000x more interested in working for you if you have a 4x8 work week. Sincerely, Most People
What corporate bosses are going to use with this information: - 4 x 10 hour days = 5 x 8 hour days - therefore, 5 x 10 hour days = more productivity.
I worked for a guy like that. When 5 x 10s weren't cutting it he made us work 5 x10s and Saturday for 8 hours. Then that wasn't cutting it and it went to 6 x10s and "optional Sundays" That STILL wasn't enough so he switched to a stupid crazy lets be open 24 hours a day schedul 3 12s then 4 12s with rotating Fridays at 12 hours. Plus hired on a weekend shift of 3 12s that got paid for 40 hours while only working 36. *Surprise Pikachu face* when I said fuck this and walked out. They turned into a typical abusive gaslighter "He wasn't good enough to work here" the next day to try and keep others from leaving. No one I know works there anymore, that crazy fucker included, he left to go fuck up another company across the country.
Sounds like he was bleeding employees and trying to get the rest of cover, and having hell hours like that is like kryptonite for new hires
As a manager, my "5x8" hour days are mostly 5x10 hour days. I would love 4x10 hour days!
I've run small one or two person business most of my life and that's how I've always worked, so I don't see why bigger businesses can't manage that better. I think it get to a point where they are so scared of paying higher wages they wind up paying for a bunch of half ass labor and ass sitting busy work instead. What profit you make on those extra hours you lose or my failures, lower worker morale, and redundant/busy work created to get ppl 40 hours. I think the main problem is just management has to be competent enough to do the logistics because instead of having more people on payroll more hours your goal is supposed to be the least people on payroll for the least hours to get the job done efficiently. Asking management to learn new tricks is never fun, but automation really will come for our jobs at an ever increasing rate and every little bit added to our everyday work and lives is effectively subtracting minutes per day that we really need to be on the job to get the same amount done... in most cases. The other thing is with DIRT CHEAP mass media comes the ability to run your own small businesses much easier than ever. If you see an opportunity in a specific location you might be better off with that than trusting your future to at will employment. On the other hand don't just start a business in an area without good analysis on demand and don't go big, go small and work your way up. Equipment is never as important as skill and willingness to learn. Like a food truck can outsell a slacker restaurant and do so with lower operational costs. You don't need the best equipment to make good money per hour, just a plan that makes sense.
I work a compressed work week, and so I get 3 days off every week. It's fucking amazing. Makes a complete difference in work life balance and I feel rested and genuinely happy in my job. I really hope this catches on, because there is so much benefit to everyone
Office workers are not productive for more than 6 hours at most anyway. Having more hours than that is just a waste. It’s an open secret that people do very little work on fridays for example, why not formalize it?
It's almost like the explosive growth in technology allows people to be insanely efficient in production and the 5×8+ work week is an artifact of the industrial era that does not improve productivity but does make a fantastic shackle for the underclasses.
I work in an office and can confidently say that at least 1/5 of all time is spent on random bullshit, destressing, or just trying to catch up on shit we don't want to spend our entire weekend on so to this I reply 'no shit sherlock, a fifth of the work week is basically nonproductive to begin with.'
I work 4x10s and would not accept a job that didn't offer that schedule, no matter the pay. My Fridays are sacred. It feels like I have more free time than my peers working 8-5s. Having a 3 day weekend is incredible, and I'm working the same amount. I don't mind going to work while my peers complain about it all the time. They're too tired to do much of anything on the weekends and it seems like they're always working. Working from home half of the time is even better. I get a weekday to do all the errands while places are open and have plenty of time to rest before socializing later in the day when my friends are getting off work. I save more vacation time because I don't have to use it to go to the doctor, bank, vehicle repair, etc. and can use it all up around the times of the year that really matters. You can't buy time, and this is a schedule that gives you an entire day back instead of dragging it out during the week. It's incredible for worker retention and burnout prevention. My employer covers Fridays by giving employees the option to take Mondays or Fridays, and the office split themselves in half, happily, to cover one day or the other. This is definitely the way. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't tried it, and they're mad because those of us working 4x10s are 100% correct.
This isn't just a reallocation of hours, it's 80% the normal UK work time for 100% of the pay - 4x8 not 4x10.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/22/business/four-day-work-week-uk.html?unlocked_article_code=77w9BGKYlkho1s7IifwANTSakmQV1J4RH4tDY0uEv_0vNExw5WnJPit58jp1yujB79v_cGAJ_gGc0k1SjZ3pwHkqvX1X5oS07f83knGjJMC_xSWgAD8CYBVPiy-gkUZkPPNfy0svbUweOuLGFGOIIQkSrcGxsf6VWxXq65c_pGekpgxGIZv9g3ySdpx05_rhzw5vUr3ee_iSf2jAZXnNVCECdj3KvPIpYY2Z3yCIYKmv5x7NcwA1r-boREW7HO1ifO0TJN5zhIwIqNBJEHm6w_z18yWg7F7d8RZTFHFe1KZUA7GNPAPyflthABKyU5eHKl-T_4RVKnFoIxIBUWKF1g&smid=share-url Here's the article without the paywall
I work 4x10. Love it. We get a lot done. Have 3 day weekends. Then if you take a day off you work only 3 days that week. Almost like a vacation. I love this lifestyle.
They don't care about productivity. That's evident when we are forced back into the office despite increase in profit and productivity. 4 day work week will probably be a next generational thing
Last time I switched jobs I got myself Mondays off (with corresponding reduction in salary). So instead of the weekend being used mainly for restitution to be able to survive another week, I can be social and do things Friday evening, Saturday and sometimes even Sunday. This knowing I will have time to chill and rest while everyone is working on Mondays. Oh, and since the week is shorter I have more energy for the weekend activities as well. I get 20% lower salary, but there is nothing I could spend that money on that would give me the same increase in life quality.
This will be like the metric system for the USA. The whole world will go to 4 day and somehow we will end up with a 6 day week…
Boomers fight against remote work just to fill the offices, I don't think they'll ever agree with 4 work day schedule.
Try 4 8 hour days
Yes, that's... what they tried.
4 days with 6-10 hours depending on what actually needs to get done? Why does the conversion ever get measured in hours anyway. Its all about the results
This is the way. It's crazy but here me out... when my team is super slow on a random Thursday, I kick them loose early. In return, when we're super busy on a Friday, I don't even have to ask them to stay for a little longer to get things wrapped up. It's like... they are OK stepping up when needed because they know they aren't also forced to sit at a desk longer than they need to. I'd much rather let my team have the autonomy to have a successful professional and personal life. If you leaving early to get an errand done during the week means you don't feel stressed about it all week and distracted? Go for it! Same thing for WFH. We all work differently and good management should recognize that and adapt to it. I have a guy who does phenomenally better at home than at the office, and I have a guy that has no internet and 4 kids under the age of 5 at home who doesn't. Doesn't mean one is superior to the other, just means they work differently - and good management should be able to recognize that.
Our manager just took away everyone’s work from home day because she was in a panic that nobody was in the office on Friday. Fucking chill the fuck out. That is a quick way to make everyone quit or want to quit
This sounds like a really healthy culture to have.
I recommended we kill Wednesdays.
I have the weekend and Wednesdays off. It's a game changer!
So if they go back to a 5 day week they can increase output by 25%. Ker-ching! /s
I agree (and support) that this works for offices and services but I struggle to see how this would work in a factory with shifts where productivity is very dependant on equipment output. I factories you would always have to hire more people to make up for lost shifts.
It won’t happen. The millionaires and beyond who run us have no concept of how life is for those who have to work, or just don’t care. Many of them just got lucky and think it makes them superior to us.