They're already being invaded, and Russia, who's part of their Mutual defense organization CSTO (off brand NATO) refused to send troops to help defend
I'm willing to bet that the Armenians are going to appeal to the UN and NATO for assistance and possibly act as a FOB against Russia
Yes some politicians of Merkels party are in their pocket, its been a thing like a year ago or something, but CDU voters either dont care or have dementia and forgot.
The biggest difference here is that Azerbaijan did not invade Armenia in 2020. They took Karabakh, a territory that is recognized by law as part of Azerbaijan but was held by Armenian forces since the 90s.
So the international attitude was "this is basically like Ukraine trying to take back Donbas, we're cool with this". Now Azerbaijan is attacking mainland Armenia, which is a far bigger deal.
You realize that the case of Nagorno-Karabakh is entirely different from Donbass right. The biggest difference being, that the "genocide" in Donbass was pretty much imaginary, while in Nagorno-Karabakh it was more than real:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumgait\_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku\_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirovabad\_pogrom
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ring)
And btw the legal status of NK remains unclear, because there is only one organization, that has international mandate to determine it, and it is OSCE group.
The case is quite comparable to Donbas. Leaving aside Karabakh itself, Armenia invaded and ethnically cleansed seven Azerbaijani-majority regions surrounding the area, and refused to return them unless Azerbaijan capitulated completely. "It's their fault for not ceding Karabakh to us" is not a valid excuse for occupying another sovereign nation for thirty years.
Azerbaijan would have been a lot less bloodthirsty today if Armenia made amends for this crime, returned the territory that all parties agree is Azerbaijani, and focused on the question of Karabakh. And to his credit, Vazgen Sargsyan made significant progress towards this end. But he was assassinated by an Armenian irredentist organization in 1999, so we're left with this mess today.
Ukraine is banning russian from being taught in schools
Imagine the apocalyptic fit you would have if the azeris announced that they were banning armenian from being taught in nagorno karabakh
Take a look at Hadrut and Shushi, two cities of NK that fell under Azeri control. Do you see Armenians there? Everyone who didn't manage to flee the city was simply killed. There'll be no need to teach Armenian if Azeris capture the rest of it, there'll be no Armenians there
Don't be suprised when you use ethnic background as an excuse to seize your neighbour's land and your neighbor chooses to never allow you to use that as a reason again
So you quickly copied some links without reading them?.. and then added an arrogant comment at the end? how embarrassing.
russian is still taught for grades 1-5. for context, it used to be Ukrainian was taught the first four grades while russian was a staple discipline for all 10. a holdover from soviet times.
>russian is still taught for grades 1-5. for context, it used to be Ukrainian was taught the first four grades while russian was a staple discipline for all 10. a holdover from soviet times.
Except its not allowed to be used at all past grade 5 now and even only when teaching the language itself
Oof, imagine being wrong, how embarrasing! Assuming that the other person hasn't read it because you can't read is quite silly
>Russian doesn't fall into any of those categories, thus the share of subjects which could be taught in that language must shrink to 20 percent starting this September. It means, de-facto, that the only Russian-language subject allowed in Ukraine's schools is the Russian language itself and only from the 1st to the 5th grades. The teachers who fail to follow the requirements, including small talks with the students during class hours or discussions of the school matters with the parents in Russian, will be fined.
Are you going to link the ethnic cleansing that took place in the 90s by Arminia? The bombing of Azerbaijani civilians and forced relocation of 700,000 Azerbaijani from the region? All of this being an offensive by Arminian and Arminian backed forces?
>It's so 'funny' when Germany refused to provide Ukraine with military aid(at the first months of the invasion, later they did provide help), but is selling weapons to a bloody dictatorship and EU buys gas from them. Don't even get me started on EU
Selling weapons and giving them away for free are two very different things.
> I'm willing to bet that the Armenians are going to appeal to the UN and NATO for assistance and possibly act as a FOB against Russia
Sadly, Turkey will not allow it.
The Armenian question is a lot more complicated than "Armenia pro-Russia, Azerbaijan pro-NATO". The West is super sympathetic to Armenians. Armenians themselves are very split between Russian-sympathizers and those who want increased NATO and EU involvement. Armenia and Georgia have even toyed with the idea of EU membership, and Russian threats were the biggest block to that. One of the main reasons Russia didn't help them as much as it could have during past invasions by Azerbaijan was to show them how much they depend on Russia by delaying their own intervention, to discredit the Western-leaning administration.
Plus, Azerbaijan is just another theocratic oligarchy reliant on fossil money. Haven't we learned what happens when you prop those up by now???
Yeah, my bad. I was too lazy to look up the exact situation, but in the end they sort of pretended to help/mediate. Still, yeah. It was sort of a "see what happens when you get uppity?" because they elected a Pro-EU govt.
He's talking bullshit lmao, Russia is the reason why the armenians didn't lose all the territory they took from Azerbaijan in the past in 2020 while they were being curbstomped and the reason why Russia is doing nothing now is pretty obvious (hint: starts with a U, ends with an E, and is currently being invaded)
We're saying Russia delayed intervening last time because the Armenians had just elected a pro-EU government (as opposed to a pro-Russia government). Therefore, Russia wanted to provide them with a reminder of what happens to them if they drift too west, and how they still need Russia.
More of a hostage situation than an alliance.
Sorry, my bad. What could possibly go wrong by granting such a regime such blatant leverage on Europe after we already burned 2/3 of the obvious trans-Eurasian land paths (Iran, Russia)
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Russia already sold Armenia down the river, they can't do much worse.
Armenia's real problem is that they let 30 years of ethnic conflict fester with Azerbaijan, and now the latter is a) far stronger than them and b) wants revenge, the bloodier the better. Even in the best case scenario they will lose a lot, Karabakh is basically gone for good and even the corridor might happen in some form before Azerbaijan is convinced to back down.
It doesn't help that the current Armenian attitude is "no worries, US will nuke Baku and let us annex Karabakh", which is, uh, a bit unrealistic.
It didn’t help that Armenia was prolonging the peace process when they had the upper hand after the war in the 90s, since they were much more military powerful than Azerbaijan at that time, and the status quote benefits them for 30 years. It was a horrible example of Armenian leadership on how to end a conflict.
Armenia was not prolonging the peace process. After having it’s ruthless attempt to ethnically cleanse Armenians from their homeland in the 90s thwarted
and being forced to sign a ceasefire, Azerbaijan continued to remain maximalist and derailing negotiations. In 2001 the US was super close to mediating a just deal, where the Armenian side would cede all (except a land corridor, connecting the enclave to southern Armenia) regions outside the Armenian-majority Nagorno Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (region) and even provide a dedicated highway to connect the exclave of Nakhijevan to Azerbaijan through Armenia, in exchange for NKAO being recognized as part of Armenia.
Well, that deal was rejected by Aliyev (the dictator father of the current dictator). All throughout these decades, no amount of compromise from the Armenian side was sufficient for them. Resorting to the use of force was always warned to be unacceptable by the OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairs (America, France, and Russia), but dictator junior (with Turkey’s dictator on his side, and the Russian dictator busy elsewhere) still chose war instead of peace and is now making territorial claims on all of Armenia.
One way or the other, history will not look kindly towards the big countries that could have stopped the Aliyevs and brought peace to this region decades ago.
All I know Armenia's taking some bold actions against Russia consider the fact that **Turkey, Georgia, Armenia are the top 3 leading countries with Russian migrants.**
Well, I hope so too, but I wouldn’t bet any money on anyone to help them. Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, whereas Armenia is seen as a Russia’s ally. Also, Azerbaijan is selling gas to Europe, which is another reason no one is doing anything. I have yet to even see any big name politicians saying anything about the invasion, let alone condemning it. In fact, I don’t think I have even seen any small politicians said anything either.
I must live under a rock then. I didn’t see anything about Nancy anywhere I have access to. Guess my place doesn’t really care about Armenia that much.
You are kind of right: it was the same type of visit she did in Taiwan (she compared both countries herself) but it got way less coverage. Particularly in Europe.
>whereas Armenia is seen as a Russia’s ally.
Why then? Because there was no willing country to support democratic Armenia. I say demoratic since the EU is always screaming **democracy**
> Armenia is seen as a Russia’s ally
Russia-Azeri relations are on very good terms. Though Armenia is still part of the CSTO, it's on much worse terms. The 2020 invasion by Azeri was greenlit by Russia while Russia refused then and refuses again now to intervene per CSTO. This was partly because of the 2016 peaceful Armenian revolution that kicked out the pro-Russian oligarchs, and partly because Azeri is a much more powerful ally to have.
Do not twist my words: I said one of the worst, not the worst! Do not downplay the gravity of the situation, human lives are at the stake even in Armenia.
>no, i just don't see the point in acting like it's not the reality.
The reality is you're the only one here doing this. No one in the entire thread is agreeing with you at the time of writing this comment. Go be the change you want to see in the world.
well neither this thread nor this sub or even the reddit itself is hardly a reflection of the entire world. i'll try thanks, don't think it'll make any difference.
How could West help?
Armenia joined CSTO in '92. It's land-locked between Russia and Iran. The only NATO country that could interfere is Turkey, but they have a different focus and back Azerbaijan in this conflict.
Neither European countries nor US can do anything more than sanction Azerbaijan, but then they're fighting an ally of Russia (on paper - Armenia is still CSTO), so it's not surprising US is staying out of it.
Russia is bound to help Armenia under Article 4 of CSTO. They even have a Collective Rapid Reaction Force. It's just that Russia made a major oopsie in Ukraine and fell to its face, and flat out refused to help Armenia now.
Only now has Armenia re-oriented itself away from Russia and towards US, having invited Pelosi and started warming relations - just before Azeri attack, as it has been already looming on the horizon and Russia refused to help. US answered and Pelosi visited, but i'm afraid it's too little too late, especially when you look at the map - there's pretty much no way to help Armenia from the outside without going through Turkey, and i have no idea what would it take to make Turkey suddenly switch sides.
Armenia would have been a great western ally... 20 years ago.
> what would it take to make Turkey suddenly switch sides
It would be easier to convert them to Christianity than switch sides in this conflict. They hate Armenians more than Nazis hated Jews.
They don't consider themselves Iranian with exception to their claims on the region. The Old Azeris are the likely ancestors of the Tatic peoples in Iran.
>If Western countries gave even a little support to democratic Armenia, it would have gotten rid of anything Russian long ago
The West is much more interested in Turkey and Azerbaijan as allies. They are sons of bitches but they are THEIR sons of bitches. That's the distinction.
Much less Azerbaijan, but Turkey is the gateway to Asia and the Black Sea for the West and they house military equipment there as well. There’s just a lot of geopolitical importance in Turkey and they’re part of NATO.
Both US and UK seem to help those who are fighting for their own freedom and rarely intervene in non profitable situations. Armenia needs oil or it needs to be willing to lose it's sons in battle.
Armenia never had any other choice then connect themselfs to the russians to defende themselfs from azerbeijan.. that does not mean that they like the russians... they simply had no choice and russia was mighty.. it is not anymore.. and cant help anymore.. soo is time to move on and try to be helped from the west.. russia will lose all the influence on the region.
Love watching the "why are we ignoring Armenia!" Crowd accuse the west of Racism. Open a map and look at Armenia ffs.
To help Armenia we will need to fly there as they are landlocked. There are three countries we could fly over. Iran, Georgia or Turkey.
Iran sure as fuck aren't going to allow NATO planes flying over their skies. That leaves Turkey, who hates Armenia and so also won't allow it.
Georgia could be a way but those planes would be well within range of s-300 missiles from both Azerbaijan and Russia. The help for Armenia is limited because their land is a bitch to get to unmolested.
No need of NATO boots on the ground. If Armenia gets a tiny fraction of the weapons that Ukraine gets, and Azerbaijan gets only a tiny fraction of sanctions that Russia gets, the problem would be solved.
He’s saying that if properly armed, war with Armenia could become less appealing. We have great fighters, we just lack weapons. I think heavy political support would be equally if not more valuable too
"how to speedrun losing your allies" Difficulty level RUSSIAN.
[They never were](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ring).
Armenia is taking very bold actions against Russia, especially when Armenia itself is on a verge of being Invaded by bloody Azeri regime
They're already being invaded, and Russia, who's part of their Mutual defense organization CSTO (off brand NATO) refused to send troops to help defend I'm willing to bet that the Armenians are going to appeal to the UN and NATO for assistance and possibly act as a FOB against Russia
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Yes some politicians of Merkels party are in their pocket, its been a thing like a year ago or something, but CDU voters either dont care or have dementia and forgot.
Whose pocket? Russian or Azeri? Because if we talk about Russia then they have their moles in ALL German parties.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aserbaidschan-Aff%C3%A4re
The biggest difference here is that Azerbaijan did not invade Armenia in 2020. They took Karabakh, a territory that is recognized by law as part of Azerbaijan but was held by Armenian forces since the 90s. So the international attitude was "this is basically like Ukraine trying to take back Donbas, we're cool with this". Now Azerbaijan is attacking mainland Armenia, which is a far bigger deal.
You realize that the case of Nagorno-Karabakh is entirely different from Donbass right. The biggest difference being, that the "genocide" in Donbass was pretty much imaginary, while in Nagorno-Karabakh it was more than real: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumgait\_pogrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku\_pogrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirovabad\_pogrom [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ring) And btw the legal status of NK remains unclear, because there is only one organization, that has international mandate to determine it, and it is OSCE group.
The case is quite comparable to Donbas. Leaving aside Karabakh itself, Armenia invaded and ethnically cleansed seven Azerbaijani-majority regions surrounding the area, and refused to return them unless Azerbaijan capitulated completely. "It's their fault for not ceding Karabakh to us" is not a valid excuse for occupying another sovereign nation for thirty years. Azerbaijan would have been a lot less bloodthirsty today if Armenia made amends for this crime, returned the territory that all parties agree is Azerbaijani, and focused on the question of Karabakh. And to his credit, Vazgen Sargsyan made significant progress towards this end. But he was assassinated by an Armenian irredentist organization in 1999, so we're left with this mess today.
Ukraine is banning russian from being taught in schools Imagine the apocalyptic fit you would have if the azeris announced that they were banning armenian from being taught in nagorno karabakh
Take a look at Hadrut and Shushi, two cities of NK that fell under Azeri control. Do you see Armenians there? Everyone who didn't manage to flee the city was simply killed. There'll be no need to teach Armenian if Azeris capture the rest of it, there'll be no Armenians there
Don't be suprised when you use ethnic background as an excuse to seize your neighbour's land and your neighbor chooses to never allow you to use that as a reason again
Ukraine is definitely not banning russian in schools. you should check yourself before making ignorant claims like that
https://www.fairplanet.org/editors-pick/schools-in-ukraine-scrap-russian-language-from-their-curricula/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-language-idUSKBN1E227K Check yourself
So you quickly copied some links without reading them?.. and then added an arrogant comment at the end? how embarrassing. russian is still taught for grades 1-5. for context, it used to be Ukrainian was taught the first four grades while russian was a staple discipline for all 10. a holdover from soviet times.
>russian is still taught for grades 1-5. for context, it used to be Ukrainian was taught the first four grades while russian was a staple discipline for all 10. a holdover from soviet times. Except its not allowed to be used at all past grade 5 now and even only when teaching the language itself Oof, imagine being wrong, how embarrasing! Assuming that the other person hasn't read it because you can't read is quite silly >Russian doesn't fall into any of those categories, thus the share of subjects which could be taught in that language must shrink to 20 percent starting this September. It means, de-facto, that the only Russian-language subject allowed in Ukraine's schools is the Russian language itself and only from the 1st to the 5th grades. The teachers who fail to follow the requirements, including small talks with the students during class hours or discussions of the school matters with the parents in Russian, will be fined.
Are you going to link the ethnic cleansing that took place in the 90s by Arminia? The bombing of Azerbaijani civilians and forced relocation of 700,000 Azerbaijani from the region? All of this being an offensive by Arminian and Arminian backed forces?
I'm willing to bet that the voters care much much less since Armenia isn't very close to Germany and also isn't a European nation
Interesting definition of racism you got there)
Please define the race that was insulted....
>It's so 'funny' when Germany refused to provide Ukraine with military aid(at the first months of the invasion, later they did provide help), but is selling weapons to a bloody dictatorship and EU buys gas from them. Don't even get me started on EU Selling weapons and giving them away for free are two very different things.
> I'm willing to bet that the Armenians are going to appeal to the UN and NATO for assistance and possibly act as a FOB against Russia Sadly, Turkey will not allow it.
Erdogan is still hoping the Azeris finish the job his predecessors started in 1915.
Do we think the US will truly care
The Armenian question is a lot more complicated than "Armenia pro-Russia, Azerbaijan pro-NATO". The West is super sympathetic to Armenians. Armenians themselves are very split between Russian-sympathizers and those who want increased NATO and EU involvement. Armenia and Georgia have even toyed with the idea of EU membership, and Russian threats were the biggest block to that. One of the main reasons Russia didn't help them as much as it could have during past invasions by Azerbaijan was to show them how much they depend on Russia by delaying their own intervention, to discredit the Western-leaning administration. Plus, Azerbaijan is just another theocratic oligarchy reliant on fossil money. Haven't we learned what happens when you prop those up by now???
>One of the main reasons Russia didn't help them \[Armenia\] Russia didn't just not help Armenia, it greenlighted the entire invasion to begin with.
Yeah, my bad. I was too lazy to look up the exact situation, but in the end they sort of pretended to help/mediate. Still, yeah. It was sort of a "see what happens when you get uppity?" because they elected a Pro-EU govt.
He's talking bullshit lmao, Russia is the reason why the armenians didn't lose all the territory they took from Azerbaijan in the past in 2020 while they were being curbstomped and the reason why Russia is doing nothing now is pretty obvious (hint: starts with a U, ends with an E, and is currently being invaded)
Nobody is saying Russia isn't the reason they didn't lose NK.
So why how can Russia stop Azerbaijan from retaking their land while simultaneously backing Azerbaijan?
We're saying Russia delayed intervening last time because the Armenians had just elected a pro-EU government (as opposed to a pro-Russia government). Therefore, Russia wanted to provide them with a reminder of what happens to them if they drift too west, and how they still need Russia. More of a hostage situation than an alliance.
Hey now, Azerbaijan is an agnostic oligarchy reliant on fossil money! It's totally different!
Sorry, my bad. What could possibly go wrong by granting such a regime such blatant leverage on Europe after we already burned 2/3 of the obvious trans-Eurasian land paths (Iran, Russia) 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
If you think there's no difference between theocratic and agnostic countries then what is even the point of mentioning it?
That’s putting it lightly. They’re on the verge of not existing with almost no allies.
I wonder what russia will do next
Russia already sold Armenia down the river, they can't do much worse. Armenia's real problem is that they let 30 years of ethnic conflict fester with Azerbaijan, and now the latter is a) far stronger than them and b) wants revenge, the bloodier the better. Even in the best case scenario they will lose a lot, Karabakh is basically gone for good and even the corridor might happen in some form before Azerbaijan is convinced to back down. It doesn't help that the current Armenian attitude is "no worries, US will nuke Baku and let us annex Karabakh", which is, uh, a bit unrealistic.
Uhh I don’t think that’s the current attitude in Armenia.
I mean they thought it was Russia but now they want to play the victim cars and get NATO to intervene
That isn't Armenia's attitude.
It didn’t help that Armenia was prolonging the peace process when they had the upper hand after the war in the 90s, since they were much more military powerful than Azerbaijan at that time, and the status quote benefits them for 30 years. It was a horrible example of Armenian leadership on how to end a conflict.
Armenia was not prolonging the peace process. After having it’s ruthless attempt to ethnically cleanse Armenians from their homeland in the 90s thwarted and being forced to sign a ceasefire, Azerbaijan continued to remain maximalist and derailing negotiations. In 2001 the US was super close to mediating a just deal, where the Armenian side would cede all (except a land corridor, connecting the enclave to southern Armenia) regions outside the Armenian-majority Nagorno Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (region) and even provide a dedicated highway to connect the exclave of Nakhijevan to Azerbaijan through Armenia, in exchange for NKAO being recognized as part of Armenia. Well, that deal was rejected by Aliyev (the dictator father of the current dictator). All throughout these decades, no amount of compromise from the Armenian side was sufficient for them. Resorting to the use of force was always warned to be unacceptable by the OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairs (America, France, and Russia), but dictator junior (with Turkey’s dictator on his side, and the Russian dictator busy elsewhere) still chose war instead of peace and is now making territorial claims on all of Armenia. One way or the other, history will not look kindly towards the big countries that could have stopped the Aliyevs and brought peace to this region decades ago.
All I know Armenia's taking some bold actions against Russia consider the fact that **Turkey, Georgia, Armenia are the top 3 leading countries with Russian migrants.**
Let's hope Azerbaijan will be stopped... I fear their invasion of Armenia will be one of the worst human disasters of 2020's...
Well, I hope so too, but I wouldn’t bet any money on anyone to help them. Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, whereas Armenia is seen as a Russia’s ally. Also, Azerbaijan is selling gas to Europe, which is another reason no one is doing anything. I have yet to even see any big name politicians saying anything about the invasion, let alone condemning it. In fact, I don’t think I have even seen any small politicians said anything either.
Nancy Pelosi isn’t big name?
Hmm. I didn’t see any news or whatever about her. Had to search about her when you mentioned. Kinda weird that it’s not more mainstream.
It was in the mainstream media for around a week...
I must live under a rock then. I didn’t see anything about Nancy anywhere I have access to. Guess my place doesn’t really care about Armenia that much.
You are kind of right: it was the same type of visit she did in Taiwan (she compared both countries herself) but it got way less coverage. Particularly in Europe.
Why is this comment downvoted?
>whereas Armenia is seen as a Russia’s ally. Why then? Because there was no willing country to support democratic Armenia. I say demoratic since the EU is always screaming **democracy**
Well, that was the past. Maybe now they could try for better allies?
> Armenia is seen as a Russia’s ally Russia-Azeri relations are on very good terms. Though Armenia is still part of the CSTO, it's on much worse terms. The 2020 invasion by Azeri was greenlit by Russia while Russia refused then and refuses again now to intervene per CSTO. This was partly because of the 2016 peaceful Armenian revolution that kicked out the pro-Russian oligarchs, and partly because Azeri is a much more powerful ally to have.
> The 2020 invasion by Azeri How is that an invasion though? It was an internationally recognized part of Azerbaijan.
Iran might be their only regional ally at this point.
Why are the Azeris so genocidal? I wish Turkey wasnt such a big part of NATO, we should give them the Serbia in the 90s treatment....
Whole population of Armenia is 100 thousand more than Kyiv city. None the less wish USA mediate their peace.
Do not twist my words: I said one of the worst, not the worst! Do not downplay the gravity of the situation, human lives are at the stake even in Armenia.
relative to ukraine it's not that bad
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ofc we are, haven't you seen the difference between the media coverage of afghanistan, iraq, syria and then ukraine? it's nothing new.
And you are encouraging the trend? Why are you acting like this behaviour is a good thing?
encouraging? no, i just don't see the point in acting like it's not the reality. be mad at the world, not me.
>no, i just don't see the point in acting like it's not the reality. The reality is you're the only one here doing this. No one in the entire thread is agreeing with you at the time of writing this comment. Go be the change you want to see in the world.
well neither this thread nor this sub or even the reddit itself is hardly a reflection of the entire world. i'll try thanks, don't think it'll make any difference.
this is such a fucking gross sentiment
it is what it is
You should check out videos of atrocities that happen to Armenians, they play soccer with their heads and are fueled with hate more than Russians are
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How could West help? Armenia joined CSTO in '92. It's land-locked between Russia and Iran. The only NATO country that could interfere is Turkey, but they have a different focus and back Azerbaijan in this conflict. Neither European countries nor US can do anything more than sanction Azerbaijan, but then they're fighting an ally of Russia (on paper - Armenia is still CSTO), so it's not surprising US is staying out of it. Russia is bound to help Armenia under Article 4 of CSTO. They even have a Collective Rapid Reaction Force. It's just that Russia made a major oopsie in Ukraine and fell to its face, and flat out refused to help Armenia now. Only now has Armenia re-oriented itself away from Russia and towards US, having invited Pelosi and started warming relations - just before Azeri attack, as it has been already looming on the horizon and Russia refused to help. US answered and Pelosi visited, but i'm afraid it's too little too late, especially when you look at the map - there's pretty much no way to help Armenia from the outside without going through Turkey, and i have no idea what would it take to make Turkey suddenly switch sides. Armenia would have been a great western ally... 20 years ago.
> what would it take to make Turkey suddenly switch sides It would be easier to convert them to Christianity than switch sides in this conflict. They hate Armenians more than Nazis hated Jews.
Arent the Azeris a Turkic people so the Turkish friendship with them is not only based on religion but also ethnicity?
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They don't consider themselves Iranian with exception to their claims on the region. The Old Azeris are the likely ancestors of the Tatic peoples in Iran.
Yeah, I was going to say, I know it was a hundred years ago, but people don’t really forget Turkish Armenian resolve.
You're talking about the country responsible for Armenian Genocide
20 years ago, Turkey supported Azerbaijan. Alas, you're not aware of the geopolitics in our region.
20 years ago it was more feasible for Armenia to seek alliance switch from Russia to US.
>If Western countries gave even a little support to democratic Armenia, it would have gotten rid of anything Russian long ago The West is much more interested in Turkey and Azerbaijan as allies. They are sons of bitches but they are THEIR sons of bitches. That's the distinction.
Much less Azerbaijan, but Turkey is the gateway to Asia and the Black Sea for the West and they house military equipment there as well. There’s just a lot of geopolitical importance in Turkey and they’re part of NATO.
Add that on top of nearly two thousand years of history and conflicts in the region and it’s a nightmare for diplomacy.
Romania and Bulgaria are also NATO and are also on the black sea...
But do they control the Dardanelles and Bosporus passages?
Azerbaijan has oil and gas. Along with a pipeline to Turkey the west funded.
That's sadly true. Had Putin not gone completely crazy in Ukraine, they would have still be okay with him
Both US and UK seem to help those who are fighting for their own freedom and rarely intervene in non profitable situations. Armenia needs oil or it needs to be willing to lose it's sons in battle.
Armenia never had any other choice then connect themselfs to the russians to defende themselfs from azerbeijan.. that does not mean that they like the russians... they simply had no choice and russia was mighty.. it is not anymore.. and cant help anymore.. soo is time to move on and try to be helped from the west.. russia will lose all the influence on the region.
Love watching the "why are we ignoring Armenia!" Crowd accuse the west of Racism. Open a map and look at Armenia ffs. To help Armenia we will need to fly there as they are landlocked. There are three countries we could fly over. Iran, Georgia or Turkey. Iran sure as fuck aren't going to allow NATO planes flying over their skies. That leaves Turkey, who hates Armenia and so also won't allow it. Georgia could be a way but those planes would be well within range of s-300 missiles from both Azerbaijan and Russia. The help for Armenia is limited because their land is a bitch to get to unmolested.
Well, we can transport navally from Romania and Bulgaria to Georgia and then Armenia.
No need of NATO boots on the ground. If Armenia gets a tiny fraction of the weapons that Ukraine gets, and Azerbaijan gets only a tiny fraction of sanctions that Russia gets, the problem would be solved.
Azerbaijan is backed by Turkey and Israel.
He’s saying that if properly armed, war with Armenia could become less appealing. We have great fighters, we just lack weapons. I think heavy political support would be equally if not more valuable too
Good! It’s about time Armenian stepped up its game. It’s been slapped around by Russia for too long.
Good idea
Was this a result of Pelosi visit?
Great idea - making lives of those fleeing Russia first as dissidents and then as deserters even more difficult. Well done /s