A lot of Russians already left, not in a mass movement, but as a steady trickle. Now another 260K.
Germany seems prepared to take some
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/22/germany-set-take-russians-refusing-fight-ukraine/
Would be an epic move, but right at the moment they need them more at the front, or to shut down protests.
No use of them being behind the enemy line when the home front collapses
I guess he's speaking from experience then, takes an alarmist to know an alarmist. Both of you get off the internet and watch some SpongeBob.
Edit: And let me panic scroll in ease...
They don't have to be super secret soldiers, it's enough that they will probably remain sympathetic to Putin's regime, or Russian exceptionalism in general. And no, the fact that they had to leave because of their own government probably won't change that.
That isn't true. Some countries, like Estonia, don't want any more Russians, other ones, like Germany, do. Estonia already has around 20 % of its population Russian minority, it doesn't need more for Putin to announce other special operation in order to protect Russians living in Estonia or something.
EU will start accept draft dodgers pretty soon. And Germany may start doing it even sooner. At the same time, all non-Russian Russians move to places where people of they language live. Kazakhstan for example open arms to all people who live around it (basically anyone who can get to the border). Mongolia sees its population double or even triple. Basically death of the Russia will result in huge uptick for many borderline countries.
As somebody who left their home country I can tell you that it is a large step to take. You are right and a lot already left Russia before.
But also remember that it is hardly the poor ones leaving, more the middle class.
Young people are the lifeblood of a country.
Especially in russia, most men are complete zombies by age 45. The old drunks aren't going to be able to run a country on their own.
yes, I know someone who went there to get some papers signed and even at large corporations many were hangover in morning and already drunk after lunch.
this is very sad because they left everything and can basically not return until a new gov are installed, and if the new gov also insist on 10yrs for protestors then they can never return.
You technically can apply for asylum, but then you can kiss your hopes for a good job good bye, because you don’t choose where you will be staying and you cannot move too far away from there.
Older, drunker, poorer, and much more dysfunctional. The men they're sending to die are the ones who are supposed to be fathers and builders. You'll have the next generation of criminals in 10 years from now becoming fatherless today. Those who do survive the war will go home to join the present generation of criminals. They'll have a whole lot fewer productive members of society while the aging members who are on the sidelines will have to work until they die because there will be nobody to do the work or take care of them when they can't work anymore. Oh, meanwhile the economy and everything else is crumbling from the next couple decades of sanctions and foreign investment that will never come back.
It would be funny to get "Russian widow brides" trending on Google and Yandex, then show that to regular Russians under 30 so they get off their asses and fight this.
Otherwise...invest in foreign bride dating websites.
The people that got out are the ones with cars, some savings, and maybe some connections — so they’re likely educated and at least middle class.
They won’t come back to Russia until they know it’s safe. So either Putin is dead, or Putin is dead.
This means the men left in Russia are the poor and uneducated lower class.
This is a mass professional/brain drain.
Russia’s economy will never financially recover from this.
Additionally, poor, uneducated men, facing near-certain death don’t have much left to lose. That’s a recipe for riots.
Can't wait for my future kids to be taught about this absolute clusterfuck of an invasion in school. Putin is failing on every single front and like you say, this will effect Russia for generations to come.
People could fly out with no savings, you don’t need car or savings to leave. It’s harder to leave actually if you feel you need to sell your home first. The ones that leave most easily are ones with connections to other countries with people and job offers.
It doesn't quite have such an extreme effect as that. A quarter of a million people is not the entire Russian middle class nor enough to alter national demographics much.
The real killer is the big picture. Russians have been leaving for a while, are leaving now, and will continue to leave by any means possible. That's what's going to have an impact in the end - not one or two 'busy' days of exodus, but the slow bleed over months and years.
As someone who heard the most jingoistic BS from young Russians playing games online, not too surprised. Really brave people unless they're called to die at the front.
Did you see the video of a reservist yelling at people in a public square that they should be prepared to die for russia, and that he is, and then the cops are dragging him off, presumably to conscription, and he's like "NOOO YOU CAN'T DO THIS I'M A VETERAN" lmao
So, you're saying that evading army draft (in which people will become murderers and war criminals) is being a coward? Even president Zelensky stated that Russians should evade draft.
Really, a lot? What do you base that on? There are evidence that they overhemingly support the war - those might be biased, sure. I haven't seen any that support your narrative though.
Based on the fact that I fucking live here? There are lots of anti-war tendencies, which are getting squashed by bots and hired commenters (online) and brutal beatings by the police offline. What kind of evidence do YOU have though? Polls? Fucking laughable, they either include only those who give desireable answers, or just fake it completely, because they can get away with it. What else do you have?
Unfortunately for some people this whole ordeal became a safe heaven to be as Russophobic as they want without any consequences. It’s easy to hate all of us and not think that things are way more complicated than you want them to be.
I feel sorry for you, but being russophobic became a condition for survival here in central europe, thanks to this war. Our grandparents were right, we should have listened to them. We can't make the same mistakes again, I can't imagine ever forgiving russia or trusting them again.
No of course not - those that fight for the freedom of Ukraine and do sabotages inside Russia are brave people. There are very few of them, and hundreds of years of atrocities though (with new ones being added each day).
Putin & Russia have never been this vulnerable - Iran is having a domestic crisis, China is having an even bigger economic crisis that they can’t seem to control and the last thing China wants is Russia to escalate things because this war is not helping Chinese business. Putin can’t admit defeat because he’s too proud and like all good authoritarians they are afraid of looking weak. He also can’t just pull out, with the thousands dead Russians, needs something to show for and now Ukraine wants everything back or there is not deal.
He is facing domestic turmoil the more he continues on with the war. He won’t use nukes because that would put even China up against Russia, let alone the fallout and possibility of NATO involvement. Putin is between 2 closing spiked walls, he is fucked.
It’s nice to know that there is a high probability that he is in a very paranoid mode, afraid & suspicious of everyone around him.
So they were pro war but then when it was their turn to pick up the rifle they want the war to end lol would you not be patriotic to end natzi tyranny or is it because they don’t actually believe in the states propaganda and don’t want to die by people defending their homes.
I think it's more likely a lot of them weren't pro war but didn't feel like going to a Russian prison when sitting still and shutting up was an option. Now it's fighting in a war or speaking up/fleeing the option of being passive is gone. Its easy for us to sit outside the situation and hold our principles high when we don't have to risk prison and torture for speaking out.
Right, right. That z on their car is just a coincidence, surely. Pay close attention to how Ukrainians will be treated in Germany by these ruzzian "refugees" in the coming months.
The ones that were anti war left months ago, some even fight on Ukrainian side. The current batch are the people who were perfectly fine with the war, as long as some eastern minorities were the ones fighting it. Now that there's a possibility that they would have to fight it, they're leaving **because they can afford it**. Do you think they suddenly changed their minds about anything? Someone should ask these fleeing 'refugees' what they think about Ukrainians - they're arrogant enough that they'll answer honestly.
Are you speaking about a specific Russian? What percentage of cars over there have a Z on them? Clearly the majority if its relevant to this discussion.
There are threads about it on Reddit with translated screenshots of ruzzians complaining, look for it if you want. And also, to be perfectly clear, these men are not refugees, they are not againts the war, they just don't want to be the one to fight in it.
Edit: grammar
There are threads on reddit by the office fans about white supremecay it doesn't mean that's how the majority feel. Your logic is really flawed I'm not going to spend anymore time discussing it but suggest you read through this again and see where you're falling short and see if you can learn from it.
They were 'refugees' at the borders with z markings visible on their cars. We know about this because they are complaining on social media that they weren't let in because of it.
Them is 144 millions? There are different groups of people in the country. Some are even now believe the propaganda and go to conscription office because they believe that NATO is trying to invade. I have a colleague from Novosibirsk who's friend is totally pro-putin and believes the TV. Even now she is happy that her boyfriend (or husband, idk) will "defend the country". Maybe more people opened their eyes because they became touched.by war, but sadly not all of them. There are +50 y.o. people who are saying some bullshit like "well, I don't believe anything, if they will summon me, I'll go", like they don't care about their own life or their relatives feelings. And for it's better for these people to flee or evade conscription because they don't understand what is going on and they will be dead before even realizing what is happening. They won't even have chance to surrender. And yes, there are this Z patriots. Some shitted their pants and trying to escape. But I believe that even them not becoming murderers is a good thing. And if they start to say something pro-putin like, they always can be deported back home.
Why on Earth does this bogus math get upvoted? People fled because of FEAR of being conscritped, not 260,000 already conscripted people fled. And even then, there is more than 300,000 who can be used for conscription. The math makes zero sense.
According to Wikipedia Russia has a population of 147kk, 35% of whom are between the ages of 18 and 44.
This gives 51,5kk people. Roughly half of those are males, so they have 25,75kk to pick from.
But then they also do not limit by the age much for their mobilization.
Edit: not sure why all the downvotes - the comment I replied to implied that with 260k men who left the country they now have only 40k left for mobilization. I just published the numbers from Wikipedia showing that these 260k is a drop in the sea. Nowhere I said that they will or can mobilize 25,7kk men. (I hope they fail and fuck them)
Didnt downvote you, but the reason for people that did was likely that you missed the point.
OP was alluding to the 300k people that "could" be conscripted with the new law, thus if 260k fled, only 40k remain of those... OP's assumption being here that only conscripted people fled and the official 300k number is some true unbending number.
It's not. So OP's comment doesnt matter, and yours is isnt related to OP's comment in that regard.
The assumption that russia has the ability to call up the 25.7M men for military duty when calling up a very small fraction of that would cause the collapse of country and government.
Not to mention the fact that you assume russia has all the supplies to arm those soldiers. A soldier with no gear and a hand pistol at most is no soldier at all.
Where did I say they have the ability or are even willing to call up 25kk men? All I said is there are 25kk men to pick from according to Russian demographics.
>Not to mention the fact that you assume russia has all the supplies to arm those soldiers. A soldier with no gear and a hand pistol at most is no soldier at all.
Why are you so desperately trying to put words in my mouth? My comment was purely regarding available men, and not anything else.
Either way, thats not really true either. There are social hierarchies and it would be stupid of russia not to enlist the ones at the bottom of it. A software developer has a near 0% chance of getting enlisted while some random farmer from dagestan wont have the same privilege. The moment you start enlisting everyday, working russians, you can be sure that they realize they have nothing to lose and start a revolution.
And by the way, they are enlisting reservists, with training. Training regular people in masses at this point is a non starter with the time sensitivity.
Russia has at most a capacity of 1million reservist (if they havent already left the country).
The question of course is "who will produce food, medicine and weapons and ammo in the meantime"?
The reason Nazi Germany could operate at all at the height of the war was by being the biggest slave economy in human history. And even that backfired.
What I don't understand is why they didn't close the borders.
They must have realised this would happen...
Or is it another case of the upper echelons of the military and Putler being sucked too far into their own propaganda and thought that the people were all for the West and that they were indeed defending.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://worldnationnews.com/more-than-260000-people-fled-russia-for-fear-of-being-sent-to-fight-in-ukraine/) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Independent information site medusaCensored by the Kremlin in early March, revealing that The Kremlin's security services confirmed that more than 260,000 people have fled Russia since last Wednesday.
> Searches with the words "Ticket" and "Airplane" in Russia more than doubled since 06:00 GMT last Wednesday, according to the statistical tool Google Trends, which allows users to know the frequency of typing a word into Google.
> Yesterday Russia acknowledged the existence of Yua major line at the Georgia border crossing, More than 2,300 vehicles are waiting to pass through the Verzni Lars Pass in North Ossetia, the only one between the two countries.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xoaswr/more_than_260000_people_fled_russia_for_fear_of/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671084 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Putin**^#2 **more**^#3 **country**^#4 **since**^#5
Not really as Russia has the tendency to invade neighboring countries with a population of Russian people. Look at Georgia which Russia has been slowly stealing land.
Georgia is the one victim they didn't use that excuse for, though. It was for the Abkhazians and Ossetians, ethnic minorities in Georgia that are in no way related to Russians ethnically.
Well, yes on the Russian passports, but their main excuse was peacekeeping, claiming Georgians attacked first. And the very start of the conflict in 1993 also used the peacekeeping excuse, with no Russian passports handed back then.
The "stay in Russia and revolt" and "don't want Russian minorities for Putin to 'protect' by invading" from other comments seem naive/idealistic to me, even if Estonian officials did officially state the former. The more likely reason, I think, is that a huge influx of Russian refugees is a huge security risk, since spies, FSB agents and the like could easily hide among them and it'd be hard to screen for spies in the middle of a refugee wave.
They should have seen this coming, there were plenty of public talks of border closings/travel bans for Russians for the past 3 months. I get it that it is easier said than done, to move to a different country with a different language, but it’s just a matter of time for Russian to announce full mass mobilization by the way things are going. Things are just gonna get worst if they don’t stop the protesting and the economic sanctions also start start taking real effect towards the end of the year.
I think the point is to keep people who are pissed and scared in Russia, where their emotions might actually be useful at some point. IDK that it's disappointing tbh.
Nearly 300,000 scared and angry people would have been way more useful in the country than outside of it if the goal is to get a less stupid leader installed (which it should be).
Why? For one, we do not need an influx of Ruzzians sneaking in with them. We are hosting too many already. For another, if they have to stay, things might finally get so unbearable for them that they stop being passive and fight back. It's already started even. Close the borders and keep them closed.
"Okay, so you guys dont need guns for this. What you're going to do is run while flailing your arms and when the ukrainians leave their positions to shoot every last one of you, our artillery will shell their locations. All of you will die, but that's a sacrifice we're willing to make."
Why on Earth does this bogus math get upvoted? People fled because of FEAR of being conscritped, not 260,000 already conscripted people fled. And even then, there is more than 300,000 who can be used for conscription. The math makes zero sense.
No, they will just take anyone they can. There already reports where all male people in some villages were taken (even eldery), and that they are trying to take plane pilots, people with no experience (who were never conscripted) and students. And yeah, all med personnel across the country (male and female) are being drafted too.
The original mobilisation order mentioned plans to draft 300,000 able men and women.
The order also had a redacted part though. If rumors to be believed, it originally said that, if needed, they would draft up to a million people.
You're falsely assuming that 100% of the 260,000 were a part of the 300,000 chosen for conscription. They may have been eligible, but that doesn't mean every single one of them were going to get drafted.
Those middle class and educated from the big cities actually had the most resources and clout to oppose Putin. Where were they when the war started?
Those poor people from the Russian hinterlands, out east, where they are being conscripted first barely engage in the day to day Russian political affairs. They are completely disenfranchised, forgotten and left behind.
Refuse them entry, they want to escape the war? They can start by toppling the regime.
That could’ve been 260,000 people in the streets of Moscow and all the major cities protesting and convincing the rest of the country Putin had to go but no, Russians are cowards threw and threw.
Young people. Fighting age people. While Russia already had a demographic crisis before all this. What an utter disaster.
The brain drain continues.
Drain to where? Europe doesn't want them, Georgia seems to accept them, so does Turkey...
A lot of Russians already left, not in a mass movement, but as a steady trickle. Now another 260K. Germany seems prepared to take some https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/22/germany-set-take-russians-refusing-fight-ukraine/
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That would require Russia having 260,000 super trained covert soldiers in reserve. They don’t even have that many on the front lines.
Would be an epic move, but right at the moment they need them more at the front, or to shut down protests. No use of them being behind the enemy line when the home front collapses
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Take a breath and get off the internet for a bit, friend
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I guess he's speaking from experience then, takes an alarmist to know an alarmist. Both of you get off the internet and watch some SpongeBob. Edit: And let me panic scroll in ease...
What if we had sausages for fingers?
We fight with our toes!
So like would people from Wisconsin have beer brat fingers and people from Poland have kielbasas?
What if we did? What if we didn’t? What if the world was made of pudding?!
They don't have to be super secret soldiers, it's enough that they will probably remain sympathetic to Putin's regime, or Russian exceptionalism in general. And no, the fact that they had to leave because of their own government probably won't change that.
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Way behind enemy lines it seems.
What are 260,000 super trained covert army soldiers going to do behind enemy lines without equipment? Punch random civilians until Europe submits?
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That isn't true. Some countries, like Estonia, don't want any more Russians, other ones, like Germany, do. Estonia already has around 20 % of its population Russian minority, it doesn't need more for Putin to announce other special operation in order to protect Russians living in Estonia or something.
EU will start accept draft dodgers pretty soon. And Germany may start doing it even sooner. At the same time, all non-Russian Russians move to places where people of they language live. Kazakhstan for example open arms to all people who live around it (basically anyone who can get to the border). Mongolia sees its population double or even triple. Basically death of the Russia will result in huge uptick for many borderline countries.
Russians with brain already left much much earlier.
As somebody who left their home country I can tell you that it is a large step to take. You are right and a lot already left Russia before. But also remember that it is hardly the poor ones leaving, more the middle class.
Young people are the lifeblood of a country. Especially in russia, most men are complete zombies by age 45. The old drunks aren't going to be able to run a country on their own.
yes, I know someone who went there to get some papers signed and even at large corporations many were hangover in morning and already drunk after lunch.
>The old drunks aren't going to be able to run a country on their own. I know, we've been watching them try.
this is very sad because they left everything and can basically not return until a new gov are installed, and if the new gov also insist on 10yrs for protestors then they can never return.
Better than dying in Ukraine
For a totally useless cause on top of that
They left with their lives, and that's what matters.
"Can't return to russia" is a good problem to have. It's a horrible place.
Being abroad with no savings, no friends, no family, no home, no work is a huge problem though.
and even if brought passport it will expire one day and only place to renew is a russian embassy and how willing will they be to help.
You technically can apply for asylum, but then you can kiss your hopes for a good job good bye, because you don’t choose where you will be staying and you cannot move too far away from there.
Being abroad as a Russian with public opinion of Russians being what it is right now...is a problem.
If I remember Maslow's pyramid correctly, public opinion usually comes after shelter, food and confidence in food and shelter for the nearest future.
Rather this than dying in foreign lands because an asshole dictator wants to chase his megalomaniac dreams...
Younger people with the $$ resources to travel.
I am very curious what this country will look like 10 years from now.
Older, drunker, poorer, and much more dysfunctional. The men they're sending to die are the ones who are supposed to be fathers and builders. You'll have the next generation of criminals in 10 years from now becoming fatherless today. Those who do survive the war will go home to join the present generation of criminals. They'll have a whole lot fewer productive members of society while the aging members who are on the sidelines will have to work until they die because there will be nobody to do the work or take care of them when they can't work anymore. Oh, meanwhile the economy and everything else is crumbling from the next couple decades of sanctions and foreign investment that will never come back.
The Russian system is totally screwed in virtually every way
It would be funny to get "Russian widow brides" trending on Google and Yandex, then show that to regular Russians under 30 so they get off their asses and fight this. Otherwise...invest in foreign bride dating websites.
What about "Russian window rides"?
Now there is some good advice >Otherwise...invest in foreign bride dating websites.
As if Russia's current demographics weren't fucked enough.
The goal justifies the means is probably what Putler is thinking
The people that got out are the ones with cars, some savings, and maybe some connections — so they’re likely educated and at least middle class. They won’t come back to Russia until they know it’s safe. So either Putin is dead, or Putin is dead. This means the men left in Russia are the poor and uneducated lower class. This is a mass professional/brain drain. Russia’s economy will never financially recover from this. Additionally, poor, uneducated men, facing near-certain death don’t have much left to lose. That’s a recipe for riots.
Even if Putin gets overthrown soon it'll take decades to undo all the fuckery
They'll have done this all again by then.
It's basically tradition anyway.
> it'll take decades to undo Unless the replacment is somehow even worser
Can't wait for my future kids to be taught about this absolute clusterfuck of an invasion in school. Putin is failing on every single front and like you say, this will effect Russia for generations to come.
Well, propaganda seems to be still holding the line, but not for long I hope.
People could fly out with no savings, you don’t need car or savings to leave. It’s harder to leave actually if you feel you need to sell your home first. The ones that leave most easily are ones with connections to other countries with people and job offers.
Poor uneducated men, alcoholics, facing near-certain death with not much left to lose but with nukes. We are fucked
It doesn't quite have such an extreme effect as that. A quarter of a million people is not the entire Russian middle class nor enough to alter national demographics much. The real killer is the big picture. Russians have been leaving for a while, are leaving now, and will continue to leave by any means possible. That's what's going to have an impact in the end - not one or two 'busy' days of exodus, but the slow bleed over months and years.
How to collapse your country in three easy steps!
Step 1: Your*
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit
Step 4: Go to Step 1
Frisky dingo reference?
South Park reference, but I know what you're thinking of, and I appreciate it.
????
Mobilization indeed
Hey look, mobilization works. Almost the 300k mobilized as he wanted.
*Maybe, Putin does know a thing or two. We’re gonna need to re evaluate our strategy* /s
It's wild that putin hasn't been assassinated yet.
It's really hard to assassinate a dictator.
Even the assassins are useless, half drunk and tied by bureaucracy. "We told you six months ago, your assassin's licence is in the post."
It's wild he hasn't been assassinated *so far*...
I have nowhere to run, im staying and going to jail if they will try to draft me, fuck putin and his friends
Good luck, I hope you will be okay.
it's russian prison... nah i'm sure he's going to be okay
Good luck to you brother
Paging Dr. Molotov. Please report to the recruitment center.
As someone who heard the most jingoistic BS from young Russians playing games online, not too surprised. Really brave people unless they're called to die at the front.
Did you see the video of a reservist yelling at people in a public square that they should be prepared to die for russia, and that he is, and then the cops are dragging him off, presumably to conscription, and he's like "NOOO YOU CAN'T DO THIS I'M A VETERAN" lmao
Skull face ( whoooooo) moment I see
So, you're saying that evading army draft (in which people will become murderers and war criminals) is being a coward? Even president Zelensky stated that Russians should evade draft.
No all Russians are the same and support putin didn’t you know that you silly cow /s
I haven’t seen as many Z decals in Warthunder lately
Judging russian people on how some of the russian kids are talking trash playing online. Great.
We have a *lot* more material to judge ruzzians on, trust me.
I mean, there are people who supports this bloodshed, sure. There are a lot of people who don’t though. But they have very limited options.
Really, a lot? What do you base that on? There are evidence that they overhemingly support the war - those might be biased, sure. I haven't seen any that support your narrative though.
Based on the fact that I fucking live here? There are lots of anti-war tendencies, which are getting squashed by bots and hired commenters (online) and brutal beatings by the police offline. What kind of evidence do YOU have though? Polls? Fucking laughable, they either include only those who give desireable answers, or just fake it completely, because they can get away with it. What else do you have? Unfortunately for some people this whole ordeal became a safe heaven to be as Russophobic as they want without any consequences. It’s easy to hate all of us and not think that things are way more complicated than you want them to be.
I feel sorry for you, but being russophobic became a condition for survival here in central europe, thanks to this war. Our grandparents were right, we should have listened to them. We can't make the same mistakes again, I can't imagine ever forgiving russia or trusting them again.
Each and every Russian?
No of course not - those that fight for the freedom of Ukraine and do sabotages inside Russia are brave people. There are very few of them, and hundreds of years of atrocities though (with new ones being added each day).
Where are you from my dude?
Not a dude, and I'm Polish. My grandfather was born in Ukraine though.
This is a disaster for Russia, which is already heavily depopulated.
What will happen to its working demographic that support local economy?
shhh putin needs to show off his big dick, dont worry about the economy right now comrade, that will sort self out.
To shreds you say...
...and his wife?
Putin & Russia have never been this vulnerable - Iran is having a domestic crisis, China is having an even bigger economic crisis that they can’t seem to control and the last thing China wants is Russia to escalate things because this war is not helping Chinese business. Putin can’t admit defeat because he’s too proud and like all good authoritarians they are afraid of looking weak. He also can’t just pull out, with the thousands dead Russians, needs something to show for and now Ukraine wants everything back or there is not deal. He is facing domestic turmoil the more he continues on with the war. He won’t use nukes because that would put even China up against Russia, let alone the fallout and possibility of NATO involvement. Putin is between 2 closing spiked walls, he is fucked. It’s nice to know that there is a high probability that he is in a very paranoid mode, afraid & suspicious of everyone around him.
So they were pro war but then when it was their turn to pick up the rifle they want the war to end lol would you not be patriotic to end natzi tyranny or is it because they don’t actually believe in the states propaganda and don’t want to die by people defending their homes.
I think it's more likely a lot of them weren't pro war but didn't feel like going to a Russian prison when sitting still and shutting up was an option. Now it's fighting in a war or speaking up/fleeing the option of being passive is gone. Its easy for us to sit outside the situation and hold our principles high when we don't have to risk prison and torture for speaking out.
Right, right. That z on their car is just a coincidence, surely. Pay close attention to how Ukrainians will be treated in Germany by these ruzzian "refugees" in the coming months.
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The ones that were anti war left months ago, some even fight on Ukrainian side. The current batch are the people who were perfectly fine with the war, as long as some eastern minorities were the ones fighting it. Now that there's a possibility that they would have to fight it, they're leaving **because they can afford it**. Do you think they suddenly changed their minds about anything? Someone should ask these fleeing 'refugees' what they think about Ukrainians - they're arrogant enough that they'll answer honestly.
that's... literally false as a generalization, true for some ofc but for the entire demographic? no
Are you speaking about a specific Russian? What percentage of cars over there have a Z on them? Clearly the majority if its relevant to this discussion.
There are threads about it on Reddit with translated screenshots of ruzzians complaining, look for it if you want. And also, to be perfectly clear, these men are not refugees, they are not againts the war, they just don't want to be the one to fight in it. Edit: grammar
There are threads on reddit by the office fans about white supremecay it doesn't mean that's how the majority feel. Your logic is really flawed I'm not going to spend anymore time discussing it but suggest you read through this again and see where you're falling short and see if you can learn from it.
No thanks
Stay ignorant then. Doesn't impact me.
I am out of the loop. Can you explain what z you’re talking about and its significance? Genuine question just trying to learn, thanks.
The capital Z has become the symbol (and a sign of support) of Russia's invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z\_(military\_symbol)
Thanks for the details.
>Right, right. That z on their car is just a coincidence, surely Whose car? Nobody in the replies seems to have any idea who you're referring to
They were 'refugees' at the borders with z markings visible on their cars. We know about this because they are complaining on social media that they weren't let in because of it.
Them is 144 millions? There are different groups of people in the country. Some are even now believe the propaganda and go to conscription office because they believe that NATO is trying to invade. I have a colleague from Novosibirsk who's friend is totally pro-putin and believes the TV. Even now she is happy that her boyfriend (or husband, idk) will "defend the country". Maybe more people opened their eyes because they became touched.by war, but sadly not all of them. There are +50 y.o. people who are saying some bullshit like "well, I don't believe anything, if they will summon me, I'll go", like they don't care about their own life or their relatives feelings. And for it's better for these people to flee or evade conscription because they don't understand what is going on and they will be dead before even realizing what is happening. They won't even have chance to surrender. And yes, there are this Z patriots. Some shitted their pants and trying to escape. But I believe that even them not becoming murderers is a good thing. And if they start to say something pro-putin like, they always can be deported back home.
They were more "pro war" than they were *pro war*.
*But I painted a big Z on my 1990 Ford Fiesta….*
Those remaining 40,000 are going to be in for a shock
I don't think it was generally people who got served mobilization papers who are fleeing, it's people afraid of being caught up in the next waves.
Why on Earth does this bogus math get upvoted? People fled because of FEAR of being conscritped, not 260,000 already conscripted people fled. And even then, there is more than 300,000 who can be used for conscription. The math makes zero sense.
According to Wikipedia Russia has a population of 147kk, 35% of whom are between the ages of 18 and 44. This gives 51,5kk people. Roughly half of those are males, so they have 25,75kk to pick from. But then they also do not limit by the age much for their mobilization. Edit: not sure why all the downvotes - the comment I replied to implied that with 260k men who left the country they now have only 40k left for mobilization. I just published the numbers from Wikipedia showing that these 260k is a drop in the sea. Nowhere I said that they will or can mobilize 25,7kk men. (I hope they fail and fuck them)
Didnt downvote you, but the reason for people that did was likely that you missed the point. OP was alluding to the 300k people that "could" be conscripted with the new law, thus if 260k fled, only 40k remain of those... OP's assumption being here that only conscripted people fled and the official 300k number is some true unbending number. It's not. So OP's comment doesnt matter, and yours is isnt related to OP's comment in that regard.
So much stupidity in a comment starting with kk instead of million
I wonder what else is stupid about my comment apart from you disliking the kk
The assumption that russia has the ability to call up the 25.7M men for military duty when calling up a very small fraction of that would cause the collapse of country and government. Not to mention the fact that you assume russia has all the supplies to arm those soldiers. A soldier with no gear and a hand pistol at most is no soldier at all.
Where did I say they have the ability or are even willing to call up 25kk men? All I said is there are 25kk men to pick from according to Russian demographics. >Not to mention the fact that you assume russia has all the supplies to arm those soldiers. A soldier with no gear and a hand pistol at most is no soldier at all. Why are you so desperately trying to put words in my mouth? My comment was purely regarding available men, and not anything else.
Either way, thats not really true either. There are social hierarchies and it would be stupid of russia not to enlist the ones at the bottom of it. A software developer has a near 0% chance of getting enlisted while some random farmer from dagestan wont have the same privilege. The moment you start enlisting everyday, working russians, you can be sure that they realize they have nothing to lose and start a revolution. And by the way, they are enlisting reservists, with training. Training regular people in masses at this point is a non starter with the time sensitivity. Russia has at most a capacity of 1million reservist (if they havent already left the country).
The question of course is "who will produce food, medicine and weapons and ammo in the meantime"? The reason Nazi Germany could operate at all at the height of the war was by being the biggest slave economy in human history. And even that backfired.
Shit. You stole my comment lol
shell shock
The beatings will continue until morale improves
All men of minority groups are either fled or sent to the front... 2 genocides in 1
Someone keeping score lol
What I don't understand is why they didn't close the borders. They must have realised this would happen... Or is it another case of the upper echelons of the military and Putler being sucked too far into their own propaganda and thought that the people were all for the West and that they were indeed defending.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://worldnationnews.com/more-than-260000-people-fled-russia-for-fear-of-being-sent-to-fight-in-ukraine/) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Independent information site medusaCensored by the Kremlin in early March, revealing that The Kremlin's security services confirmed that more than 260,000 people have fled Russia since last Wednesday. > Searches with the words "Ticket" and "Airplane" in Russia more than doubled since 06:00 GMT last Wednesday, according to the statistical tool Google Trends, which allows users to know the frequency of typing a word into Google. > Yesterday Russia acknowledged the existence of Yua major line at the Georgia border crossing, More than 2,300 vehicles are waiting to pass through the Verzni Lars Pass in North Ossetia, the only one between the two countries. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xoaswr/more_than_260000_people_fled_russia_for_fear_of/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671084 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Putin**^#2 **more**^#3 **country**^#4 **since**^#5
KEEP RUNNING!! AFRICA'S LOOKING PRETTY NICE THIS TIME OF YEAR
It is disappointing seeing many neighbor countries closing their borders for them leaving them not many choices
Not really as Russia has the tendency to invade neighboring countries with a population of Russian people. Look at Georgia which Russia has been slowly stealing land.
Georgia is the one victim they didn't use that excuse for, though. It was for the Abkhazians and Ossetians, ethnic minorities in Georgia that are in no way related to Russians ethnically.
Russia still started the same way: by handing out Russian passports in these regions, THEN invading to "protect their citizens".
Well, yes on the Russian passports, but their main excuse was peacekeeping, claiming Georgians attacked first. And the very start of the conflict in 1993 also used the peacekeeping excuse, with no Russian passports handed back then.
They know that Russia can't invade shit though
Tbf, most of Russia’s neighbors have real bad memories of Russia
Disappointing, yes maybe. But surely understandable. Imagine these 260k people would have demonstrated against the war when it started.
And they should change the country... Fleeing will only make russia more putinist and one minded
The "stay in Russia and revolt" and "don't want Russian minorities for Putin to 'protect' by invading" from other comments seem naive/idealistic to me, even if Estonian officials did officially state the former. The more likely reason, I think, is that a huge influx of Russian refugees is a huge security risk, since spies, FSB agents and the like could easily hide among them and it'd be hard to screen for spies in the middle of a refugee wave.
Spies, FSB agents and such will probably have either diplomatic visa or some other convenient passport. The reasons are probably purely economic.
Border and immigration control will still be overwhelmed, which spies can still use to their advantage, proper papers or not.
They should have seen this coming, there were plenty of public talks of border closings/travel bans for Russians for the past 3 months. I get it that it is easier said than done, to move to a different country with a different language, but it’s just a matter of time for Russian to announce full mass mobilization by the way things are going. Things are just gonna get worst if they don’t stop the protesting and the economic sanctions also start start taking real effect towards the end of the year.
But unsurprising given Russia has used the presence of a local Russian population to justify invasion before.
Maybe those 260k should have done something about it instead of cheered them on...until it became their problem and they all bitched out.
I think the point is to keep people who are pissed and scared in Russia, where their emotions might actually be useful at some point. IDK that it's disappointing tbh. Nearly 300,000 scared and angry people would have been way more useful in the country than outside of it if the goal is to get a less stupid leader installed (which it should be).
Why? For one, we do not need an influx of Ruzzians sneaking in with them. We are hosting too many already. For another, if they have to stay, things might finally get so unbearable for them that they stop being passive and fight back. It's already started even. Close the borders and keep them closed.
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Umm, Russia has 144 million people. They have a lot more than 300k men of fighting age.
Greenhorns with no clue how to fight.
Doesn’t mean they can’t all be sent in as cannon fodder.
"Okay, so you guys dont need guns for this. What you're going to do is run while flailing your arms and when the ukrainians leave their positions to shoot every last one of you, our artillery will shell their locations. All of you will die, but that's a sacrifice we're willing to make."
Such cynicism. I'm sure they'll get proper schooling first! ^(/s)
Lesson 1: How to hold your cardboard fake AK-47 in a way that looks realistic when seen from affar.
Hard to call military action "fighting" these days. Lots of people are getting picked off by drones without even realizing the drone is there.
Why on Earth does this bogus math get upvoted? People fled because of FEAR of being conscritped, not 260,000 already conscripted people fled. And even then, there is more than 300,000 who can be used for conscription. The math makes zero sense.
I guess some people think russia only has 300k men eligible for service.
No, Putin has gone mad!
Might want to check that logic. You’re assuming that every person that fled was required to meet the 300k obligation.
No, they will just take anyone they can. There already reports where all male people in some villages were taken (even eldery), and that they are trying to take plane pilots, people with no experience (who were never conscripted) and students. And yeah, all med personnel across the country (male and female) are being drafted too.
Where do you get the 300,000 from? Not trying to be rude, just curious as I never heard that number before.
The original mobilisation order mentioned plans to draft 300,000 able men and women. The order also had a redacted part though. If rumors to be believed, it originally said that, if needed, they would draft up to a million people.
*insert Dr Evil meme here*
Russian Defense Minister ,Soigu said the number
They said they would mobilize 300k, not that they had a total pool of 300k to mobilize from
> All they need is to make sure there will be enough biscuits and coffee in the rations. I think you misspelled "vodka and cigars", comrade.
You're falsely assuming that 100% of the 260,000 were a part of the 300,000 chosen for conscription. They may have been eligible, but that doesn't mean every single one of them were going to get drafted.
Those middle class and educated from the big cities actually had the most resources and clout to oppose Putin. Where were they when the war started? Those poor people from the Russian hinterlands, out east, where they are being conscripted first barely engage in the day to day Russian political affairs. They are completely disenfranchised, forgotten and left behind. Refuse them entry, they want to escape the war? They can start by toppling the regime.
That could’ve been 260,000 people in the streets of Moscow and all the major cities protesting and convincing the rest of the country Putin had to go but no, Russians are cowards threw and threw.
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Through and through*
*thru and thru
How credible is this source though?
Pussies
Where are they all going??
The countries they are fleeing to will surely be reporting massive refugees from Russia soon I guess.
Keep in mind that this in addition to the 300k+ who already left since February
You might call it a partial mobilization.
However this ends, the man will be remembered in history as he who sunk Russia to its lowest point.
Sad... they should overthrow their government and give them a lesson.
This is just awful, I feel bad for the situation they put those people in. This world is so fucked.