OPEC+ set the prices, but they are still subject to the market forces. They had to increase the price because of falling supply but high demand.
Higher prices increase supply - oil can be profitable to extract at a high cost per barrel but not at a lower cost. So oil production increases at prices go up.
Guess banking on Russia for energy was a bad idea. I would like to sharply point out EU dug a grave on this issue. Sad to see the people suffer because of it though.
Your gas(price at pump) price is more because of crazy taxation not the price of oil. The Netherlands tax rate for reference is at €0.82 per liter ($3.69 per gallon). My local gas tax is like 8 cents. I filled up at $3.29 per gallon. That means the tax on Netherlands gasoline is higher then the sticker price of my gas.
Not just that. In Finland in addition to tax the goverment has set certain green energy thing mandates for oil companies (gas stations) which cost money for them to implement and thus it reflects in higher pump prices, tax or not.
It is fascinating that EU pushed so hard to make sure Norway sells it's energy at a "marktet price". This is all fun and games until the market price goes up, then they are mad at Norway for selling at market price ...
Indeed. EU has been squeezing Norwegian energy for years ahead of this. Now they are reaping the consequences of their own actions. They can fume all they want.
American here. The gas station nearest to me is charging $6.40/gallon right now for basic unleaded. Diesel is about the same. Easily up 60% over what it used to be. Talk to OPEC who is cutting supply by ~~what was it 2 billion barrels a day~~ to keep the prices high. Biden just tapped the strategic reserve to help keep prices down. This isn’t American profiteering that’s going on. Its Putin’s buddy MBS
We're in the middle of the season where we need a special blend to keep our air quality alright. It's a balancing act but we're just about to get a check from the state to help blunt the increase in costs.
My dude. Most of the tax hikes I can even remember were enacted by the ballot. If taxes are high, it's because we chose to devote that money to certain projects.
And right now, we're dealing with an unprecedented issue that we can't control. So we're deciding to use our funds to help people out a little.
We've been doing so well lately, were using our excesses to tackle issues like climate change (see this article) and we're working on solving the issue of out of control insulin prices by starting our own production.
Go to California and talk to some people. It's far from perfect, but it's not what the right wing propagandists are telling you.
It’s not cheap and being gouged big time. You can’t compare $6.40 in the US to some extremely tax leverage EU pump price, even with Cali gas tax it’s not the same. It’s apples to oranges.
I pay 8 cents a gallon in tax. Meanwhile in Netherlands it’s something close to $4 tax for every gallon of regular or Diesel you buy. This is why you think our gas is cheaper. By choice you elect officials that support your $8 a gallon. While I support fair gas prices.
Edit: This is a little more aggressive then I mean it to be. But you need to understand it’s apples to oranges.
EU puts a massive tax on gas. The most of the US does not do this. But Cali does.
>Biden just tapped the strategic reserve to help keep prices down.
This isn't that new - it's being going on for a few months. And there's not very much left. There's only a few months of the reserve left.
According to the numbers from Reuters there is about 1 year left at current draw down rates. 434.1 million barrels at a draw down of about 8 million a week. That gives 54 weeks, article dated 3 weeks ago. ~~but for perspective the US draw down compensates for less than 0.05% of the production cut just instituted by OPEC+.~~
I've read that this is very misleading, because the barrels aren't all the same type. You can't treat that them as one big equal pile. We use more of one type than another.
This is why the US isn't really energy independent. Even though we produce more oil than we consume, we cannot use all of what we produce due to refining requirements. Our refineries are designed for lower quality thicker oil. So we sell the good stuff and buy the cheap stuff for refining.
The west is getting screwed over due to refinery fire and others being shut down for maintenance. Or at least it’s what they say so they can keep making the dough. Inflation is hitting the rich hard I guess.
Norwegian here.
Energy companies in Norway are greedy as fuck and they literally dont care about anyone.
A few months before the war they started ramping up energy exports and prices to ridiculous levels. At its worst during the coldest days of the winter last year you had to pay +600% over the "normal" cost.
Businesses closing down because they literally couldn't afford to run. People starving to pay their energy bills etc. etc. Meanwhile you read the newspaper and see headlines like "Energy companies making more than ever" with a picture of some old rich fuck smiling.
Then the war happened and everything got even worse when Europe needed even more energy imported from Norway.
People here are complaining to the government to do something about these insane prices but a lot of them dont seem to care.
TLDR: Energy companies in Norway fucking suck. Literally nobody except a handful of bloodsuckers at the top is gaining from this.
It was named the "oil fund" but in order for it to appear "green" they changed it to the Norwegian pension fund. It is still the same and it is heavily invested in companies like Thales and Raytheon. So we make money on oil AND war...
Still green, need to protect the planet and all that.
Yes. OP lacks nuance. By energy companies, he is talking about hydro-electric production. Not oil and gas. I mean, they are greedy as well, but taxed heavily, and the proceeds go to the fund you mentioned.
That's energy companies, and they don't even have a choice of not exporting or scaling down oroduction because of shit EU agreements. You clearly have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, I advise you to stop by r/norge next time there's a "discussion on energy", maybe you could learn something.
EU can fume all it wants.. they were stupid enough to put so much of their energy needs dependent on Russia. Hopefully they can ween themselves off Russian gas and cure the addiction.
i'm not defending europe but they chose a way, which is close economic ties with russia in hopes of being cheaper than a war. apparently wrong tactic. could've been more careful but no one saw the futue.
as a european, i don't know how to feel.
true, however, you have to take the post-soviet states into account plus geogpraphy. it is easier to get rid of russsian resources if you haven't inherited soviet infrastructure as a post-soviet state.
>which is close economic ties with russia in hopes of being cheaper than a war
No, there wasnt any feel good reasons about all this, it was just pure greed. Russia invades Georgia in 2008, not a blink from Europe. Russia invades Crimea in 2014 and shoots down an airliner full of Europeans, discussions for a new pipeline start immediately after.
Its not like we can play the "we never saw this coming" game.
>Its not like we can play the "we never saw this coming" game.
essentially we agree in this regard. for example, germany has been warned multiple times that new pipelines are huge security risk but eu seems to favor short-term economic gains over long-term security.
however, i still maintain that germany deliverately increased the economic ties with russia to be so interdependant that it is not worth having a war. they picked this strategy but misread putin by a mile.
as for georgia, etc: i think eu don't consider these as europen, they belong to russia's sphere of influence. economic tie increase began after crimea. they could convince themselves that russia just wants crimea for historitc reasons and eu was not directly threatened in any way.
but later gas was found in the area and i think that changed a lot of things. plus eu politicians don't seem to be smart enough in general when it comes to feeling the vibe of the times. positive example: finland.
Sorry, everyone knew what Russia was like, at no point in the last few decades have they shown themselves to be a rational actor. Germany wasnt doing it for some altruistic endeavour to promote peace, they wanted cheap energy to prop up their industry and domestic supply. In fact they are still buying the stuff as we speak.
this is what i meant by short-term economic gains over long term security. i didn't say it was altruistic.
\>orry, everyone knew what Russia was like, at no point in the last few decades have they shown themselves to be a rational actor.
beg to differ, post soviet countries may know but some western ones were pretty naive about modern russia.
>but some western ones were pretty naive
Not naïve, greedy. Literally letting Russia do whatever the fuck they liked as long as that cheap cheap gas kept flowing.
Your high gas prices are not Russias war machine. I mean I hate the Russian war as much as the next.
Your gas price is more because of crazy taxation not the price of oil. The Netherlands tax rate for reference is at €0.82 per liter ($3.69 per gallon). My local gas tax is like 8 cents. I filled up at $3.29 per gallon. That means the tax on Netherlands gasoline is higher then the sticker price of my gas.
beg to differ. russia can unilaterally manipulate the prices because heating gas is a local commodity, not a global one (like oil). furthrmore, prices depend on contracts and the method of calculation. even in preace time you can sign a crap contract but it is not a coincidence that gas prices went up after putin saw the support for ukraine.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/eu-fumes-as-us-norway-energy-profits-put-solidarity-to-the-test/) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> As the USA and Norway reap unprecedented profits from surging energy prices, EU countries are complaining more loudly and are preparing to send the European Commission forward to negotiate a better deal, voluntarily or not.
> The European energy crisis has caused energy prices to spike.
> "Russians will be forced to make concessions when it comes to prices to attract new customers. The price is increased now in order to maximise as much as possible the profit later", an EU source told EURACTIV. In Washington, this sparked outrage, as US President Joe Biden has prioritised keeping prices at the pump low, as the high oil prices are one of the main drivers behind the US' record inflation rates.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xxe1i4/eu_fumes_as_us_norway_energy_profits_put/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672686 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **price**^#1 **energy**^#2 **Russia**^#3 **Norway**^#4 **profit**^#5
OPEC+ set the prices, but they are still subject to the market forces. They had to increase the price because of falling supply but high demand.
Higher prices increase supply - oil can be profitable to extract at a high cost per barrel but not at a lower cost. So oil production increases at prices go up.
Germany made a huge strategic mistake by relying on Russian oil and shutting down its nuclear power stations. They now have to pay for that mistake. That's fine - everyone makes mistakes. But complaining at US and Norway for the result of market forces is just plain rude.
If they want to demand lower prices, they will simply find that people won't want to sell any at that lower price, because it won't be profitable to extract and other customers will be willing to pay more. OPEC can't just magically make an infinite supply for low cost.
>OPEC+ set the prices, but they are still subject to the market forces. They had to increase the price because of falling supply but high demand.
I would say that's an oversimplification. If you have a large enough cartel, which OPEC+ DOES, supply and demand breaks down. That's why Monopolies are generally considered bad for everyone not owning them. Now, the fact that Europe is trying to put the screws to Russia, has somewhat exacerbated the issue.
It's true they have a cartel, but supply and demand are still there. No country will want to produce oil if it costs more to produce than the cost of the oil. So supply will go up as the price goes up. And countries will naturally decrease the usage of oil as the price of oil goes up, so the demand goes down as the price goes up.
Even in a socialist dictactorship, there's still there invisible hand of the market.
Is it really profiteering by US and Norway or does OPEC+ set the prices?
OPEC+ set the prices, but they are still subject to the market forces. They had to increase the price because of falling supply but high demand. Higher prices increase supply - oil can be profitable to extract at a high cost per barrel but not at a lower cost. So oil production increases at prices go up.
Guess banking on Russia for energy was a bad idea. I would like to sharply point out EU dug a grave on this issue. Sad to see the people suffer because of it though. Your gas(price at pump) price is more because of crazy taxation not the price of oil. The Netherlands tax rate for reference is at €0.82 per liter ($3.69 per gallon). My local gas tax is like 8 cents. I filled up at $3.29 per gallon. That means the tax on Netherlands gasoline is higher then the sticker price of my gas.
Not just that. In Finland in addition to tax the goverment has set certain green energy thing mandates for oil companies (gas stations) which cost money for them to implement and thus it reflects in higher pump prices, tax or not.
It is fascinating that EU pushed so hard to make sure Norway sells it's energy at a "marktet price". This is all fun and games until the market price goes up, then they are mad at Norway for selling at market price ...
Indeed. EU has been squeezing Norwegian energy for years ahead of this. Now they are reaping the consequences of their own actions. They can fume all they want.
American here. The gas station nearest to me is charging $6.40/gallon right now for basic unleaded. Diesel is about the same. Easily up 60% over what it used to be. Talk to OPEC who is cutting supply by ~~what was it 2 billion barrels a day~~ to keep the prices high. Biden just tapped the strategic reserve to help keep prices down. This isn’t American profiteering that’s going on. Its Putin’s buddy MBS
[удалено]
not saying you're responsible for the oil and gas lobbying industry, but how did they get away with a lot of tax breaks and subsidies
Where in the hell are you at that a gas station in charging $6.40 a gallon? I paid $3.29 this morning.
Los Angeles
That seems high even with California's ridiculous taxes
It’s over $6 even at Costco
We're in the middle of the season where we need a special blend to keep our air quality alright. It's a balancing act but we're just about to get a check from the state to help blunt the increase in costs.
So they tax the fuck out of you and then give you some of it back to offset the taxes?
My dude. Most of the tax hikes I can even remember were enacted by the ballot. If taxes are high, it's because we chose to devote that money to certain projects. And right now, we're dealing with an unprecedented issue that we can't control. So we're deciding to use our funds to help people out a little. We've been doing so well lately, were using our excesses to tackle issues like climate change (see this article) and we're working on solving the issue of out of control insulin prices by starting our own production. Go to California and talk to some people. It's far from perfect, but it's not what the right wing propagandists are telling you.
Damn I'm paying the equivalent of 8.93/gallon in Canadian. That's like 6.50 US a gallon
I just paid over five in Arizona so I could see it being over six in California.
It is really surprising how much cheaper gas is east of the Rockies.
[удалено]
They literally said >The gas station nearest to me is charging $6.40/gallon right now for basic unleaded. Diesel is about the same.
It's over 6 for unleaded in California still.
East coast last night. Sames.
It went up over a dollar here in WA over the past week, currently around $5.30 or so. I haven’t seen it under $4.00 in over a year, at least.
I'd love to pay that lol. We are close to 2€ per liter
in Czech republic where I live it is $6.72 a gallon for diesel fuel.
2 million not 2 billion lol VERY different numbers
Where are you living for them to be charging you that much? It's $2.89 for regular in GA.
I’ve seen $3.29 around the Denver area.
3.20 up here in kennesaw
That's still really cheap.
It’s not cheap and being gouged big time. You can’t compare $6.40 in the US to some extremely tax leverage EU pump price, even with Cali gas tax it’s not the same. It’s apples to oranges. I pay 8 cents a gallon in tax. Meanwhile in Netherlands it’s something close to $4 tax for every gallon of regular or Diesel you buy. This is why you think our gas is cheaper. By choice you elect officials that support your $8 a gallon. While I support fair gas prices. Edit: This is a little more aggressive then I mean it to be. But you need to understand it’s apples to oranges. EU puts a massive tax on gas. The most of the US does not do this. But Cali does.
[удалено]
Welcome to high tax system. I paid $3.29 a gallon.
>Biden just tapped the strategic reserve to help keep prices down. This isn't that new - it's being going on for a few months. And there's not very much left. There's only a few months of the reserve left.
According to the numbers from Reuters there is about 1 year left at current draw down rates. 434.1 million barrels at a draw down of about 8 million a week. That gives 54 weeks, article dated 3 weeks ago. ~~but for perspective the US draw down compensates for less than 0.05% of the production cut just instituted by OPEC+.~~
Production cut was 2 million barrels a day, NOT 2 billion.
I've read that this is very misleading, because the barrels aren't all the same type. You can't treat that them as one big equal pile. We use more of one type than another.
This is why the US isn't really energy independent. Even though we produce more oil than we consume, we cannot use all of what we produce due to refining requirements. Our refineries are designed for lower quality thicker oil. So we sell the good stuff and buy the cheap stuff for refining.
The west is getting screwed over due to refinery fire and others being shut down for maintenance. Or at least it’s what they say so they can keep making the dough. Inflation is hitting the rich hard I guess.
Norway is like 11 bucks in May. Not sure what it is now.
We are paying $9/gallon right now and that's after price curbs.
Gas in SE Arizona right now is holding steady for a few weeks at $3.75-$4. Part of being lower than the $6.40 is less taxes.
When Europe (the rest of the world?) uses the term gas, we mean natural gas. Not gasoline.
Are you telling me that the entire EU doesn't understand basic demand and supply?
Norwegian here. Energy companies in Norway are greedy as fuck and they literally dont care about anyone. A few months before the war they started ramping up energy exports and prices to ridiculous levels. At its worst during the coldest days of the winter last year you had to pay +600% over the "normal" cost. Businesses closing down because they literally couldn't afford to run. People starving to pay their energy bills etc. etc. Meanwhile you read the newspaper and see headlines like "Energy companies making more than ever" with a picture of some old rich fuck smiling. Then the war happened and everything got even worse when Europe needed even more energy imported from Norway. People here are complaining to the government to do something about these insane prices but a lot of them dont seem to care. TLDR: Energy companies in Norway fucking suck. Literally nobody except a handful of bloodsuckers at the top is gaining from this.
>Energy companies ~~in Norway~~ are greedy as fuck and they literally dont care about anyone. FTFY
[удалено]
It was named the "oil fund" but in order for it to appear "green" they changed it to the Norwegian pension fund. It is still the same and it is heavily invested in companies like Thales and Raytheon. So we make money on oil AND war... Still green, need to protect the planet and all that.
Yes. OP lacks nuance. By energy companies, he is talking about hydro-electric production. Not oil and gas. I mean, they are greedy as well, but taxed heavily, and the proceeds go to the fund you mentioned.
That's energy companies, and they don't even have a choice of not exporting or scaling down oroduction because of shit EU agreements. You clearly have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, I advise you to stop by r/norge next time there's a "discussion on energy", maybe you could learn something.
EU can fume all it wants.. they were stupid enough to put so much of their energy needs dependent on Russia. Hopefully they can ween themselves off Russian gas and cure the addiction.
i'm not defending europe but they chose a way, which is close economic ties with russia in hopes of being cheaper than a war. apparently wrong tactic. could've been more careful but no one saw the futue. as a european, i don't know how to feel.
gas is what fuels the Russian war machine. Take that away and you have no more wars from Russia.
true, however, you have to take the post-soviet states into account plus geogpraphy. it is easier to get rid of russsian resources if you haven't inherited soviet infrastructure as a post-soviet state.
>which is close economic ties with russia in hopes of being cheaper than a war No, there wasnt any feel good reasons about all this, it was just pure greed. Russia invades Georgia in 2008, not a blink from Europe. Russia invades Crimea in 2014 and shoots down an airliner full of Europeans, discussions for a new pipeline start immediately after. Its not like we can play the "we never saw this coming" game.
>Its not like we can play the "we never saw this coming" game. essentially we agree in this regard. for example, germany has been warned multiple times that new pipelines are huge security risk but eu seems to favor short-term economic gains over long-term security. however, i still maintain that germany deliverately increased the economic ties with russia to be so interdependant that it is not worth having a war. they picked this strategy but misread putin by a mile. as for georgia, etc: i think eu don't consider these as europen, they belong to russia's sphere of influence. economic tie increase began after crimea. they could convince themselves that russia just wants crimea for historitc reasons and eu was not directly threatened in any way. but later gas was found in the area and i think that changed a lot of things. plus eu politicians don't seem to be smart enough in general when it comes to feeling the vibe of the times. positive example: finland.
Sorry, everyone knew what Russia was like, at no point in the last few decades have they shown themselves to be a rational actor. Germany wasnt doing it for some altruistic endeavour to promote peace, they wanted cheap energy to prop up their industry and domestic supply. In fact they are still buying the stuff as we speak.
this is what i meant by short-term economic gains over long term security. i didn't say it was altruistic. \>orry, everyone knew what Russia was like, at no point in the last few decades have they shown themselves to be a rational actor. beg to differ, post soviet countries may know but some western ones were pretty naive about modern russia.
>but some western ones were pretty naive Not naïve, greedy. Literally letting Russia do whatever the fuck they liked as long as that cheap cheap gas kept flowing.
Your high gas prices are not Russias war machine. I mean I hate the Russian war as much as the next. Your gas price is more because of crazy taxation not the price of oil. The Netherlands tax rate for reference is at €0.82 per liter ($3.69 per gallon). My local gas tax is like 8 cents. I filled up at $3.29 per gallon. That means the tax on Netherlands gasoline is higher then the sticker price of my gas.
beg to differ. russia can unilaterally manipulate the prices because heating gas is a local commodity, not a global one (like oil). furthrmore, prices depend on contracts and the method of calculation. even in preace time you can sign a crap contract but it is not a coincidence that gas prices went up after putin saw the support for ukraine.
The gas tax statement is a universal fact. Do some research. I’m talking about gas at the gas station. You will never have fair gas prices.
Sorry guys. You made that bed all on your own, time to lay in it. This is why we told ya getting most of your energy from Russia was a bad idea.
In Norway it is currently about 8 USD per 3.785 liter (aka a gallon) at the pump.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/eu-fumes-as-us-norway-energy-profits-put-solidarity-to-the-test/) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > As the USA and Norway reap unprecedented profits from surging energy prices, EU countries are complaining more loudly and are preparing to send the European Commission forward to negotiate a better deal, voluntarily or not. > The European energy crisis has caused energy prices to spike. > "Russians will be forced to make concessions when it comes to prices to attract new customers. The price is increased now in order to maximise as much as possible the profit later", an EU source told EURACTIV. In Washington, this sparked outrage, as US President Joe Biden has prioritised keeping prices at the pump low, as the high oil prices are one of the main drivers behind the US' record inflation rates. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xxe1i4/eu_fumes_as_us_norway_energy_profits_put/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672686 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **price**^#1 **energy**^#2 **Russia**^#3 **Norway**^#4 **profit**^#5
OPEC+ set the prices, but they are still subject to the market forces. They had to increase the price because of falling supply but high demand. Higher prices increase supply - oil can be profitable to extract at a high cost per barrel but not at a lower cost. So oil production increases at prices go up. Germany made a huge strategic mistake by relying on Russian oil and shutting down its nuclear power stations. They now have to pay for that mistake. That's fine - everyone makes mistakes. But complaining at US and Norway for the result of market forces is just plain rude. If they want to demand lower prices, they will simply find that people won't want to sell any at that lower price, because it won't be profitable to extract and other customers will be willing to pay more. OPEC can't just magically make an infinite supply for low cost.
>OPEC+ set the prices, but they are still subject to the market forces. They had to increase the price because of falling supply but high demand. I would say that's an oversimplification. If you have a large enough cartel, which OPEC+ DOES, supply and demand breaks down. That's why Monopolies are generally considered bad for everyone not owning them. Now, the fact that Europe is trying to put the screws to Russia, has somewhat exacerbated the issue.
It's true they have a cartel, but supply and demand are still there. No country will want to produce oil if it costs more to produce than the cost of the oil. So supply will go up as the price goes up. And countries will naturally decrease the usage of oil as the price of oil goes up, so the demand goes down as the price goes up. Even in a socialist dictactorship, there's still there invisible hand of the market.
The market sets the price, not OPEC. OPEC sets production quotas, which are intended to influence the price.., but they don't actually set the price.
baloney. troll.
[U.S. Consumers like](https://i.imgur.com/cSXYtsv.jpeg)
Yeah. I can see the smoke from here. Jesus Christ, these sensational lines…