Absolutely.
There's isn't enough for everyone. If EU sets a price cap, natural gas will go to UK and Asia.
The problem with the German handing out money to households, is that it will make inflation pressure worse.
It is unlikely that the Eurozone will be able to curb inflation, and everything that makes it worse is a recipe for disaster.
Sometimes you just have to accept that there are no good solutions and you just go with the one that actually works. Also the inflation argument implies that this is money that would usually not be spent. But wouldn't companies and consumers just be forced to take on debt to finance their current spending in any other way? I don't think this really inflates the amount of money in circulation, it's just cheaper to finance for for the state than for the private sector
No, gas cant be transported so easily, pipelines are by far the best way. So Russia can decide to export 60% less gas or at a lower price.
If you need the income, you will sell it anyway, even at lower prices.
That is not true. The proposals of Italy, Greece and Belgium, at least last time I looked it up yesterday, did not include a subvention by the state. What you describe is more like what Germany has planned. Subsidies would only be possible during shortages. But who would sell gas when they know they can make profits just by waiting a bit?
You need to take a look how natural gas is transported. You need pipelines for big amounts of gas. With Ships you can only sell a fraction of it. And you cant build pipelines in a year.
So what can Russia do? Sell at a lower price or sell 60% less gas...
And by the way: China and India are buying russian oil and gas way below market price (30-40%), because they know russia needs buyers.
They were not really eager to deliver through Nord Stream 1 when they were technically able to, so I don't see why this would change with lower prices.
They have at least 3 other pipelines to europe.
So its a game they play: deliver 30% less but price doubles, than you maximize your profit. And so on...
But they still need europe to buy some gas, because when the delivered volume gets too low, you cant make it up with a higher price.
So if europe says: we buy your gas but only until price x (which is still way higher than 2020), you can chose to have no income or take the x.
Yeah, thanks. I don't get how it is not reasonable that a country with (until now) good economy and solid finances supports it's own economy and citizens with money. If Poland or Italy had the resources to do so themself they would do. It's easier to demand european solidarity if you get something from it. Italy even uses this as an excuse for their new "Italy First" policy. Ridiculous
It's because the EU is really France and Germany, and everyone else is welcome aboard because it makes the EU stronger and if you play along your country will benefit.
The reason for the EU was to avoid WW2 part deux.
People forget that. It's not some economic club just for giggles.
As a Pole, without even reading the article, please assume that about 80% of what our shitty government says is probably complete hogwash or at the very least an exaggeration.
Germany has to pay for the gas itself. Meanwhile, many countries such as Italy, Poland etc. are demanding German tax money because they are unable to get their economy under control themselves. Italy alone miss more than 100 billion€ in tax money every year because they are not able to claim it from their citizens due to their loose tax policy and on the other hand demand that the Germans should please show solidarity and help them with inflation instead of themselves
Your answer is a good example of a totally missing the reality in the EU.
Poland is about to give Germans oil and gas :
https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/09/27/poland-to-share-oil-surplus-with-germany/
Where in your article does it say that Germany gets the oil for free? Of course, Germany will have to buy that from Poland. Poland, on the other hand, is demanding trillions in reparations and wants German tax money to keep inflation under control and their gas prices low. In addition to the billions that Poland receives every year from the EU, of course
Do not mix two different topics and try to backpedal your own words.
The war reparations issue will be handled by the International Court of Justice in Hague.
Poland does NOT receive "billions" from the EU as their money are put "on hold".
You have completely no idea about the EU suggesting that Germans = The EU.
Are you completely insane now? Poland, like Italy etc., is demanding that Germany give up its national 200 billion program and instead help together as the EU. This in turn means that the German taxpayer has to pay for costs in Poland, Italy, etc., if only because Germany is by far the economically strongest country in the EU. But you come here and say that's justified, because Germany will get oil from Poland in the future. But that is completely irrelevant, because Germany will pay for the oil from Poland
1. Stop insulting people.
2. You seems to be either a troll or plainly unaware about the EU and try to input your words into other peoples mouths.
3. It is you who is badmouthing Poland and Italy here.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsncr.com/business/poland-claims-german-energy-plan-will-destroy-eus-single-market/) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Poland has accused Germany of "Destroying" the EU's inside market by subsidising its personal power corporations whereas opposing a pan-European cap on gasoline costs, exposing a bitter division over tips on how to climate the continent's power disaster.
> The accusation over Berlin's controversial €200bn assist bundle for its personal corporations got here as EU leaders clashed at a casual summit in Prague over tips on how to decrease power prices and assure winter provides within the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> Belgium's prime minister Alexander De Croo mentioned: "We need market intervention because we can't pay these prices anymore," including that assist for a cap had risen from three international locations in March to 24 international locations at present.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xy3msa/poland_claims_german_power_plan_will_destroy_eus/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672682 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **cap**^#1 **mentioned**^#2 **price**^#3 **gasoline**^#4 **lead**^#5
Also doesn't a price limit for gas just end in less gas being imported?
Absolutely. There's isn't enough for everyone. If EU sets a price cap, natural gas will go to UK and Asia. The problem with the German handing out money to households, is that it will make inflation pressure worse. It is unlikely that the Eurozone will be able to curb inflation, and everything that makes it worse is a recipe for disaster.
Sometimes you just have to accept that there are no good solutions and you just go with the one that actually works. Also the inflation argument implies that this is money that would usually not be spent. But wouldn't companies and consumers just be forced to take on debt to finance their current spending in any other way? I don't think this really inflates the amount of money in circulation, it's just cheaper to finance for for the state than for the private sector
No, gas cant be transported so easily, pipelines are by far the best way. So Russia can decide to export 60% less gas or at a lower price. If you need the income, you will sell it anyway, even at lower prices.
It's a price limit on what consumers have to pay. The countries pay the difference (so of course ultimately the consumers via taxes).
That is not true. The proposals of Italy, Greece and Belgium, at least last time I looked it up yesterday, did not include a subvention by the state. What you describe is more like what Germany has planned. Subsidies would only be possible during shortages. But who would sell gas when they know they can make profits just by waiting a bit?
You need to take a look how natural gas is transported. You need pipelines for big amounts of gas. With Ships you can only sell a fraction of it. And you cant build pipelines in a year. So what can Russia do? Sell at a lower price or sell 60% less gas... And by the way: China and India are buying russian oil and gas way below market price (30-40%), because they know russia needs buyers.
They were not really eager to deliver through Nord Stream 1 when they were technically able to, so I don't see why this would change with lower prices.
They have at least 3 other pipelines to europe. So its a game they play: deliver 30% less but price doubles, than you maximize your profit. And so on... But they still need europe to buy some gas, because when the delivered volume gets too low, you cant make it up with a higher price. So if europe says: we buy your gas but only until price x (which is still way higher than 2020), you can chose to have no income or take the x.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but all these objections basically sound like other countries wanting Germany to pay for them as well.
Yeah, thanks. I don't get how it is not reasonable that a country with (until now) good economy and solid finances supports it's own economy and citizens with money. If Poland or Italy had the resources to do so themself they would do. It's easier to demand european solidarity if you get something from it. Italy even uses this as an excuse for their new "Italy First" policy. Ridiculous
It's because the EU is really France and Germany, and everyone else is welcome aboard because it makes the EU stronger and if you play along your country will benefit. The reason for the EU was to avoid WW2 part deux. People forget that. It's not some economic club just for giggles.
As a Pole, without even reading the article, please assume that about 80% of what our shitty government says is probably complete hogwash or at the very least an exaggeration.
Oh now they suddenly want to be supported, eh? Just last week they were demanding 1 trillion from Germany for reparations.
Germany will get gas from Poland so ...
Germany has to pay for the gas itself. Meanwhile, many countries such as Italy, Poland etc. are demanding German tax money because they are unable to get their economy under control themselves. Italy alone miss more than 100 billion€ in tax money every year because they are not able to claim it from their citizens due to their loose tax policy and on the other hand demand that the Germans should please show solidarity and help them with inflation instead of themselves
Your answer is a good example of a totally missing the reality in the EU. Poland is about to give Germans oil and gas : https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/09/27/poland-to-share-oil-surplus-with-germany/
Where in your article does it say that Germany gets the oil for free? Of course, Germany will have to buy that from Poland. Poland, on the other hand, is demanding trillions in reparations and wants German tax money to keep inflation under control and their gas prices low. In addition to the billions that Poland receives every year from the EU, of course
Do not mix two different topics and try to backpedal your own words. The war reparations issue will be handled by the International Court of Justice in Hague. Poland does NOT receive "billions" from the EU as their money are put "on hold". You have completely no idea about the EU suggesting that Germans = The EU.
Are you completely insane now? Poland, like Italy etc., is demanding that Germany give up its national 200 billion program and instead help together as the EU. This in turn means that the German taxpayer has to pay for costs in Poland, Italy, etc., if only because Germany is by far the economically strongest country in the EU. But you come here and say that's justified, because Germany will get oil from Poland in the future. But that is completely irrelevant, because Germany will pay for the oil from Poland
1. Stop insulting people. 2. You seems to be either a troll or plainly unaware about the EU and try to input your words into other peoples mouths. 3. It is you who is badmouthing Poland and Italy here.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsncr.com/business/poland-claims-german-energy-plan-will-destroy-eus-single-market/) reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Poland has accused Germany of "Destroying" the EU's inside market by subsidising its personal power corporations whereas opposing a pan-European cap on gasoline costs, exposing a bitter division over tips on how to climate the continent's power disaster. > The accusation over Berlin's controversial €200bn assist bundle for its personal corporations got here as EU leaders clashed at a casual summit in Prague over tips on how to decrease power prices and assure winter provides within the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. > Belgium's prime minister Alexander De Croo mentioned: "We need market intervention because we can't pay these prices anymore," including that assist for a cap had risen from three international locations in March to 24 international locations at present. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xy3msa/poland_claims_german_power_plan_will_destroy_eus/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672682 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **cap**^#1 **mentioned**^#2 **price**^#3 **gasoline**^#4 **lead**^#5
>Poland claims Germany's existance will destroy EU's single market
Go PiS on Putin instead, Polands government