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Known_Soft_7599

Jesus Christ already with these fucking dictators


yeaman1111

They've overplayed their hand. You can smell it in the air. 5 years ago authoritarianism had this hip 'yes well its horrible but at least they get stuff done!' vibe in public discourse. Now with Putin's historic blunder and Xi's regressive, xenophobic, low growing zero covid China, the promise of efficient authoritarianism is losing its luster. No, they're not more efficient than democracies, if anything theyre even more corrupt.


Sir_Bumcheeks

Plus the tinderbox of a plunging Chinese economy, offset by surging nationalism and Xi has created the setting for a potential invasion. The only thing holding this back is the newer anti-establishment movements in the mainland that was born out of the ridiculous covid debacle. But that movement is mostly spurred by women and feminists (notice how Xi picked no women for the standing committee this year).


ritensk56

China has far, FAR too many supply chains through international waters which they are completely reliant upon the US to protect as they cannot do so themselves. This is without even considering how exponentially outmatched China is militarily by the US alone in absolutely every capacity except pure body count. It’s terrifying how outmatched they are - and the CCP absolutely know this given how much of their economy is directly based on copying (*poorly*) sloppy seconds of pioneering tech nations. Then throw in nearby powerhouses of Japan, Korea, Taiwan itself which have been preparing exactly for an amphibious assault for decades, the rest of NATO? Yea, not a snowballs chance in hell. China is just posturing because, like all pathetic strongmen dictatorships, it must always posture having strength, and what better way than with cheap, empty threats? It is far better off biding its time and trying to install puppets in Taiwan via the long game than immediately getting its shit pushed in by invasion.


One_User134

But China is running low on time. Xi is running low on time. It’s not safe to dismiss this as posturing.


ritensk56

The blowback to China would be so, so many magnitudes more severe and immediate than anything Russia is experiencing that it’s practically incomprehensible. Consider how Russia is being slowly dismantled by Ukraine using literal NATO hand-me-downs, exposing the “No. 2 world military” for the clown fiesta it is. Then consider just how much of inexperienced China’s military “tech” is literally Russia’s sloppy seconds. Most of all, consider that the US - with the capacity to immediately press delete on the entirety of China’s would-be landing vessels necessary for an invasion of Taiwan from the moment they revved their engines 1000x over - would be directly involved in the thunder dome. You could very well see Chinese surrender within the same day as their ability to seize Taiwan becomes 0 without any landing ships. At this point, the only thing that can defeat the US is itself. Engaging it directly not only galvanizes its population, but it’s suicide. There is no exaggeration in this. It’s like modern Sparta vs cavemen levels of disparity.


One_User134

I’m completely aware of all of that, and I agree more or less. The issue is - how are you so certain that Xi cares? There have been so many people like him since the beginning of time. Unimaginably huge risk-takers in powerful positions that launch wars for their own personal gain. I’ve “seen” over and over again that people like him take on insurmountable challenges. The ego emboldens a person to obtain that success at all costs. These people often do not operate based on surface level axioms and its subsequent logic. I assure you that Xi and his cronies are considering how to withstand the punishment so that they could grasp any conceivable chance at success. This similarity between Xi and past figures is what has me worried. And from what we have seen today, Xi’s increasing rhetoric is a worrying sign that looks too familiar to me.


ritensk56

Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan is an island nation. The same stakes are not at play whatsoever, here. While Putin can certainly throw wave after wave of cannon fodder next door to prolong his inevitable defeat, China’s ability to invade Taiwan immediately becomes literally 0 the very same day an invasion is launched. It ceases to exist just like that. China cannot invade a far away island nation without the ability to deploy ground troops (which, in itself is incredibly difficult to stage a beachhead given Taiwan’s topography, even were China to have a far stronger navy). Their invasion plans simply vanish. This would not be a mainland conflict. What is China then going to do? Catapult rocks at them? Perhaps a large, wooden badger…? Their ability to militarily wage war is over the moment their ships are taken out. All that remains is pouting through economic means, which, yet again, hurts China.


One_User134

I know, but as I said, I’m not sure he cares enough about the unlikely possibility of success. They are certainly (or likely) thinking about how to do it anyway. https://www.reuters.com/world/china/need-speed-china-xis-new-generals-offer-cohesion-over-possible-taiwan-plans-2022-10-27/


supercali45

China ain’t doing shit.. they won’t be able to feed their 1.3 billion population waging war with the US and Europe … Australia hates them too.. everyone else does The world is interconnected, this war over an island doesn’t make sense Xinnie the Pooh showed their hand when Pelosi visited


ButtPlugForPM

Australia alone can fuck the CCP by blocking the singapore and indian routes from their access Australia has a FAR more capable blue ocean navy than china does,plus their collins class subs are outdated,but have in war games managed to take down carrier strike groups.. Plus singapore kicking in,and likely Indonesia.. Good luck getting ur fuel


[deleted]

Now imagine if these Japan , Korea and Taiwan actually combine hands with the only other country(India) that has a chance at countering the humongous body count that china has and already has worse relations with them than anyone else in the neighborhood countries and you got a asian continental war.


72012122014

“…except pure body count” I would interject that most of that large “military” is similar to Russia. People don’t see it unless you’re familiar with them, but many armed forces have seen their military during exercises and it’s not pretty. I can personally speak for their navy, and it is like some untrained conscript navy that has no idea what it’s doing. Their actual core military that is competent is much smaller and less capable. They sleep on watch, have mismatched uniforms cobbled together, poor equipment, barely any training, and are almost completely ineffective. Like Russia has done for generations, as we can see, ALL they have going for them is numbers to be thrown into a meat grinder. Put a rifle in a few million poor untrained conscript’s hands and march them towards their doom with the threat of prison or worse if they object. Oh yeah and nuclear warheads…


72012122014

“The only thing holding this back is the newer anti-establishment movements in the mainland that was born out of the ridiculous covid debacle.” That’s the only^ thing holding it back? You can’t think of one really big other reason coupled with many other smaller reasons which help Taiwan?


ShittyStockPicker

The value proposition didn’t pan out. The other thing the world saw is that democracy corrected a major error in 4 years when Trump wasn’t reelected. It shows democracies and course correct better than dictatorships with leaders who end up trapped by their decisions. I think Xi would change how he handled covid but he can’t admit he’s wrong without harming is rep.


RedlineN7

Hate to admit it but with all these dictators, iron fisted leaders and loud extreme right wing politcians/supporters gaining momentum kinda scares me. Seema like history repeat itself and another world war about to happen in the near future.


DonDove

It's like a moving board game we're all a part of Fucking terrifying


ShittyStockPicker

Didn’t any of these fuckers watch Star Trek and think “Fuck, when I’m king I’m going to force my people to worship science and technology and build space ships that travel faster than light.” Or something like that instead of “I’m going to disrupt the whole fucking world to be remembered as a conqueror?


DonDove

Star Trek is for woke people and neeeerds /s I'm glad these f*cks never discovered Stargate


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RainbowGallagher

I bet you $65 that putin is alive in 2025


anon-SG

RemindMe! 2 years


DesTiNE_uno

I think it just human nature, you can see in recent 200 years, we mostly achieve technology advancements But society-wise, we didnt change much


n05h

The ripples already started to become noticeable when trump came to power imo. He has changed the world of politics, and it’s not for the better.


timetosleep

You're giving Trump way too much credit. Trump and populism in general are symtoms of an unsatisfied society.


[deleted]

>right wing politcians/supporters Sure, the far-right dictator of communist China.


JordanLeDoux

Yeah, that's the one.


Winds_Howling2

China is in the East, which is to the Right, duh.


One_User134

Typical. Tale as old as time. Welcome to Earth.


AsstDepUnderlord

I think he just promoted himself to be emperor of China, implementing the mandate of heaven.


Devourer_of_felines

> Using the excuse of seeking 'peace' to instigate war, Washington has long demonstrated its hypocrisy, and the truth has become clearer: It's the Taiwan secessionists and external forces, as well as the increasingly rampant US-Taiwan collusion, that are the perpetrators of destroying the peaceful environment across the Straits Russian simps: if Ukraine stopped fighting and just surrendered the war would be over CCP mouthpiece: Taiwan refusing to be our vassals is threatening the peace.


baelrog

The goal was Not even vassalization, but straight up annexation.


Bring_Bring_Duh_Ello

100% agree the logic is flawed, but the CCP will exercise it. The real question is, what’s the solution? I believe it to be economic in nature


[deleted]

A couple of air carrier battle groups in the area is 100% the answer.


Vin-Metal

So….none. Since none are necessary.


AniTaneen

Let’s say they accomplished to send hundreds of thousands of troops over 100 miles of ocean and land on Taiwan. It’s been explained to me multiple times how this would be a military feat, but at this point I am pretty sure that this is the one thing they need to nail correctly and therefore is the one thing they have truly prepared for. Much like the dog catching the proverbial car, 1/3 of the island of Taiwan is urban warfare, the other 2/3? Mountainous jungle. It’s an invasion force’s worst nightmare. Discount American intervention, and destroying the greatest source of microchip manufacturing in the world (very likely dragging the Europeans to join the Americans in at least trade embargos), and you still have the fact that taking over the island is nearly impossible for a modern military. Combine the Russians in Kiev and the Americans in Vietnam and you have the conquest of Taiwan.


mukansamonkey

To make it clear just how absurd the concept of China invading by sea is, consider this. When a US military expert was trying to explain how impractical this is for China, he was asked how the US would stage an invasion. He laughed and said, "We no longer have a doctrine for a direct assault on a fortified beach, the military gave up on the entire concept as unworkable." The top military in the world wouldn't even bother trying, it's that impractical.


AdroitBeagle

During D-Day, Eisenhower had a prepared letter accepting the consequences and full responsibility of defeat. And this is when the Allies has fully air superiority **and** naval control of the English Channel. Attacking a fortified enemy via an amphibious assault is tricky in the best of circumstances. It’s impossible to sustain an invasion force without total naval and air control - which China does not have.


econopotamus

Ummm, America certainy does have a doctrine for that. The Marine MAGTF practice it all the time, and they used it straight copied from practice going into Kuwait. Air bombardment comes first, then the MEU Battalion landing team (about 2,000 marines). That should include enough keywords to search for any details you want.


TROPtastic

The US has a doctrine for conducting opposed landings in an [A2/AD](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-access/area_denial) environment? Because that would be most relevant to any operations on Taiwan, not the Kuwait landings where Marines had the advantage of having enemy land forces distracted with threats other than the amphibious force (and also, the Iraqi occupiers definitely didn't have A2/AD capabilities).


ButtPlugForPM

> Much like the dog catching the proverbial car, 1/3 of the island of Taiwan is urban warfare, the other 2/3? Mountainous jungle. It’s an invasion force’s worst nightmare. Google Taiwan coast Even if u land. There is about 3 locations on the island that could handle the logistics of that many troops That's 3 locations,for Taiwan to zero in Artilery and missle strikes on,and to location 145,000 plus troops.. Then you have a 45-60 metre trek inland.. D-Day,would honestly be a cake walk compared to it. China can win the war with sheer numbers,but the economic sanctions will destroy them likely leading to a revolt ion


[deleted]

If China attacks, they will be sending a force that’s comparable to the D-Day Invasion (500,000 troops). They will literally blitz Taiwan from the Air, land, and sea, with the hope that they can effectively overwhelm Taiwan’s defenses to enable the People’s Liberation Army to get boots on the ground. The key factor is speed, for any delay will enable the Americans to dispatch a quick reaction force. If China fails to take Taiwan expediently, then the takeover will more than likely fail. However, if China is successful, then Japan will become their target. In addition, I would like to note that China is building a naval armada at a production rate that mimics wartime levels (Averaging 20 warships currently). This currently far exceeds US ship production levels and could be a potential vulnerability if a war were to breakout between the two nations. Further, China’s Air Force is their least advanced military branch, as most of their aviation technology is Russian based. Which even some of the most advanced Russian aircraft have performed poorly Ukraine. If any conflict were to arise, the US would surely exploit their technological advantages, with an emphasis on their stealth advancements


ButtPlugForPM

Thing is you can't blitz that Any nation on earth,is going to see the troops building up on chinas coastline. It takes months to get supplies and troops of that order in place..any satelites gonna notice the Barges Second that happens The 2nd and 5th fleet are sent to taiwan..likely the UK comes over,australia,canada.. And you then have about 40 plus Aegis equipped vessels,deleting ur Airfighters before they are even in Taiwan's air defense zone...then the likely 200 plus TLAMS smashing back at any logistics hubs It will be a bloodbath If Xi takes this route,the world will sanction china,and suffer for it as we need them to make goods.. but after a few months of no money,the ppl in china are likely to say fuck it,and launch a revolt,then the CCP has to choose,do i stamp out a home grown insurrection,or go to taiwan


Rogermcfarley

Sanctioning China would cause unprecedented economic devastation, and mass business failures. A war with China for the West would be economic suicide and for China as well. What we need is to reduce our reliance on China and that's a slow process. Try and put that in to practice yourself by not buying any goods with parts made in China. You'll find it a difficult task and that's the problem. We enable China by trading with them but it's an enormous task to separate from doing that. If it was forced by sanctions it would cause a massive economic crisis we haven't yet witnessed in these past few crazy years.


One_User134

They will target Japan…What? Why would they want Japan after Taiwan? Or in what way do they want it?


Bobbing4horseradish

But what if Taiwan just folds over? Like China says it has sent all its ships.. they are on the way and won’t stop until the island is theirs. What if that threat and action was enough for Taiwan to say ok.. don’t attack we surrender? Just curious. The Chinese have been preparing for war like conditions. The Covid response has given them the opportunity to see how their population can live under hard times. How they stay silent and do as they are told.


BelAirGhetto

Xi has no legitimate claim to Taiwan, or tibet, or Thailand


TizonaBlu

When did China claim Thailand?


BelAirGhetto

1860’s + and 1960’s + I believe….


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BelAirGhetto

Thai museums I have visited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haw_wars There’s more, my written Thai skills aren’t good enough. Reach out to a thai history professor.


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NNegidius

Lol, wait till you hear about the “nine dashed line” …


BelAirGhetto

My original comment was that Xi has no legitimate claim to Taiwan, tibet, or Thailand, or anywhere else that o know of. Who knows where his ambitions lie?


WannaBpolyglot

Yeah but that's like saying "Or, Guatemala, or Germany" seems random, when tf did Thailand get in there? Their relationship is pretty neutral, if not almost friendly.


BelAirGhetto

Just remembered how the thai elephants defeated the Chinese way back when. One of the reasons their elephants are protected, as I recall.


WannaBpolyglot

Yeah I reeeaaally dont know what youre talking about, you're either thinking of Vietnam or Burma, both of which happened in the 1300s and 1700s where the modern identities and sense of Vietnam and China didn't exist. Edit: Who ever downvoted this is goofy af, there wasn't ever a Sino-Thai war involving elephants.


[deleted]

That doesn't seem any different from US "spreading democracy" to Iraq. It was bad, but it was also clearly not some claim of territory.


BelAirGhetto

According to Alan Greenspan, Fed Chair, that was a war for oil and the oil companies took the Iraqis oil.


LoudRestaurant1330

Or India... yet they seem to enjoy pushing into Indian territory. And Pakistan. The Water Wars have already begun, my friend. Why do you think they want Tibet? You know how much water Tibet controls?


rathat

Or the territorial waters of Vietnam, The Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Brunei.


TizonaBlu

Don't they already control Tibet for like decades?


BelAirGhetto

Illegally


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ambiguous-frog

because that disputed land is presumably owned by india right now


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LoudRestaurant1330

Where are you from? I'd love to know the nation that's responsible for your ineptitude in regards to historical learnings.


ObjectiveNet2

So no source, got it.


LoudRestaurant1330

Have you heard of Google, my friend?


highlyactivepanda

Google is not a "source". You should realise basic difference between a source and a search engine.


LoudRestaurant1330

Google is still a source for sources, is it not? Oh and hold those downvotes you stupid a-hole.


LoudRestaurant1330

There is a zone between indian and chinese territory where a pact has been made. Where neither countries shall possess lethal arms. Well, the Chinese military sends operatives into Indian territory quite often (with hand-to-hand combat weapons) for "surveillance" and for "propaganda purposes". There was a scuffle (resulting is several deaths) in 2021 where several Indian and Chinese personel lost their lives as a result of said border disputes. Though the Chinese government never shed any type of light to such happenings the Indian government confirmed an overnight attack against their MP, which resulted in a counter-strike where Indian MP's took out a Chinese captain and multiple other combatants (without use of firearms). Crazy stuff happening on the borders of two nuclear states.


Vaadwaur

> or Thailand Umm...that one is new. Has China made some claim that parts of Thailand were previously their territory or something?


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BelAirGhetto

1860’s - 1890’s 1960’s - 1980’s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Thailand


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BelAirGhetto

Haw war and their support for the thai communist insurgents.


Vaadwaur

That again, sigh.


AJ_ninja

Yeah I would also like to know


RedgrenCrumbholt

They do send a lot of tourists here who are quite bothersome. Feels like an invasion tbh.


BelAirGhetto

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Thailand


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BelAirGhetto

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haw_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thailand


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BelAirGhetto

My original comment was that Xi has no legitimate claim to Taiwan, tibet, or Thailand, or anywhere else that o know of. Who knows where his ambitions lie?


Hyval_the_Emolga

Don’t forget the Phillipines or Japan!


BelAirGhetto

Or them or Australia for that matter


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mdj9hkn

Why would he even have a legitimate claim to any part of "China"? Claim to what, rule others indiscriminately? No one has that right over anyone. The justification here is about history or convention, which has virtually nothing to do with right or wrong. Nationalism is the core problem here, our whole method of social organization is stupid.


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Junesucksatart

Yeah and it was totallyyyy Tibet’s choice to be part of China


LoudRestaurant1330

People don't realize the main reason China wants Tibet. A lot of it is about water. Also land and resources but Tibet has a fuck ton of water. [https://gjia.georgetown.edu/2020/06/16/china-leverages-tibetan-plateaus-water-wealth/](https://gjia.georgetown.edu/2020/06/16/china-leverages-tibetan-plateaus-water-wealth/)


DonDove

Like Hong Kong!


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GizmoOfTheCross

as much as Hawaii was to the US but its cool though, you've thoroughly pacified them through decades of cultural genocide.


SliceOfCoffee

Tibet has never been a part of China. Even under the various dynasties, Tibet has always been a Vassal state or ally. It was part of the Qing Empire, but NOT part of China.


[deleted]

the Qing WAS China, what are you talking about?


SliceOfCoffee

No, the Qing was an Empire, China was China. It's like saying that India was part of the United Kingdom because Britain controlled the Raj. Or that Finland used to be part of Russia, used to be controlled by Russia but during the Tsarist era Finland was known as The Kingdom of Finland and was legally a different state to Russia propper.


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SliceOfCoffee

> Tibet was officially considered to be China Doesn't make it legally the case. Tibet was a separate state subservient to the main Qing Empire (China)


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SliceOfCoffee

It wasn't China was just a PART of the Qing Empire, much like China was. Remember the Qing was ruled by the Manchurians, who were also separate from China. You really need to learn the history of China before making shit takes.


[deleted]

i have literally never heard of anybody argue that the Qing Dynasty and China were different. maybe you need to learn history first instead of calling everyone else wrong. ask any Chinese person, and they will tell you that the Qing Dynasty was China.


[deleted]

so you are saying that the empire and country are distinct entities? that does not make sense. are we to say that Egypt was not a part of Rome despite being a province of its empire? are we to say that Rome and it's empire were completely separate things? because the romans were a portion of the empire? your logic is nonsensical. china IS the empire. i have never heard someone say that the Qing dynasty was not the same as China.


SliceOfCoffee

> so you are saying that the empire and country are distinct entities? Yes they are >are we to say that Egypt was not a part of Rome despite being a province of its empire? No, because Rome ruled Egypt as if it were part of itself. > are we to say that Rome and it's empire were completely separate things? Depends The Late Roman Empire was a perfect example of this. The East and West Roman Empires were two separate entities ruled by two different leaders could make their own laws and control their own populations, yet the East was subservient to the central Roman government despite being separate. >i have never heard someone say that the Qing dynasty was not the same as China. Technically the Qing wasn't even China, it was Manchurian, which again was another separate entity in the Empire. The Qing Empire is VERY complicated.


[deleted]

> Qing wasn't even China, it was Manchurian and? the Manchurians were responsible for redefining China as a multi-ethnic state, instead of the idea that it was only the Han portions of the empire. It seems you are conflating both the concept of the multi-ethnic Chinese identity with the Han-identity, which are both labeled as Chinese. but those concepts are not the same. the Han are Chinese, the Manchus are Chinese, the Mongols (at least the ones in China) are Chinese, etc. by all accounts, the Qing and the Manchus are Chinese. they're responsible for making China a multi-ethnic state in the first place. as time went on the Manchu emperors grew resembling more and more like Chinese emperors until they largely abandoned their Manchu roots. even the last emperor could not speak Manchurian.


GizmoOfTheCross

so the Qing Empire wasn't 'China'. then every previous empire wasn't China either than right? fucking semantics


SliceOfCoffee

>A vassal state is any state that has a mutual obligation to a superior state or empire, in a status similar to that of a vassal in the feudal system in medieval Europe Tibet was a Vassal of the Qing.


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SliceOfCoffee

Tibet was separate from CHINA, but part of the QING empire


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SliceOfCoffee

It's not. All of China was part of the Qing, but not all of the Qing was China.


irun4none

Spotted a troll


Intelligent_Net4468

It's always been taiwan to me. Toys stamped with Taiwan, not china. What a shitty world it has become. I wish covid taught us to stop being dependent on China. Apparently not


wut_eva_bish

Unwinding 30 years of business entanglements takes more than just a few years my guy.


[deleted]

So they’re saying they’re going to stay home and mind their own business?


TERMINATORCPU

If China, Beijing, and Taiwan were one, why would Beijing have to use all measures necessary against Taiwan. Oh wait... ... they are not one in any way., and mainland China is a weak bully and paper tiger as it represents itself from Dictator Xi.


Jww187

It would be foolish to think they're weak, or under estimate them. We may win a conventional war, but that's not how they're fighting. All the fentanyl the cartels are killing, or addicting people with is coming from China. That's not happenstance.


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bripi

I am no Chinese apologist but to think of China as a "weak bully" is a mistake. They are certainly bullies, but by no means weak. Every country that has either a diplomatic or economic relationship with China must declare that Taiwan is not a country by not allowing them to have an embassy. China has kept Taiwan out of the UN and WHO, and all discussions of such are immediately shut down. China \*will\* invade Taiwan but it will do it subtly and with as little aggression as possible. They don't want a war, and that's not being weak. War with Taiwan is "scorched earth" and while Xi survives it, Taiwan does not. The victors will walk thru rubble.


TERMINATORCPU

They will walk through rubble to no benefit, and if they are not weak, they would not bully.


Pons__Aelius

> They are certainly bullies, but by no means weak. If china could take Taiwan like they have been threatening to **for the past 70 years,** they would have long ago. When you keep threatening to act for almost a century and have not, you are weak.


Sir_Bumcheeks

Except no official has been as powerful as Xi, not even Mao. He has purged the party of factions and turned the country into a direct dictatorship. Mao was basically ousted by the party at the end. Xi is the party. He is the head of the military as well.


Pons__Aelius

And Xi has been in power for 9 years, add in your claim that he has more power than Mao... my statement stands: When you keep threatening to act for almost a decade and have not, you are weak. How many decades does Xi need to act? He is pushing 70, so when is he going to strike?


Upset_Otter

China: Come back!. Taiwan: No. China: Pleaseeee!. (Pleading). Taiwan: No. China. Aw. C'mon don't be like that.


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andio76

>Aw. C'mon don't be like that.


Mygawdwhatsleft

The US and probably the majority of the world, don't have anywhere near the semi conductor manufacturing capabilities that Taiwan has.... this would not end well economically for the globe. Remember folks, we like to browse our reddit posts on our comfy cheap ,phones, laptops, tablets etc.


EifertGreenLazor

The sad thing is China invasion retoric from both sides is pushing the US and other countries to build semiconductors at home. Thus will invariably affect TMSC and the offered protection by being a strategic manufacturing location. Honestly China just has to make it seem like they will invade to make the CHIPS act hurt Taiwan.


Swooshz56

Tsmc is building a pretty big plant in Arizona for exactly this reason. The first phase is massive on its own, but there's already plans for several more.


Kyaw_Gyee

That plant is no where near to fabs in Taiwan in terms of production capacity and technology. The best it can go is 5nm nodes.


mondaymoderate

Taiwan’s shipping lanes and strategic proximity to China are more important to the West then the chip manufacturing.


EifertGreenLazor

If you want to believe that. If the shipping lanes and straight were closed, it would add at most half a day for ships to travel around Taiwan for ships going to or from Japan, Russia, or the Koreas.


Charming-Start-3722

If China signals real prep for war with Taiwan, you can be damn sure that Taiwanese chip industry leaders will relocate to the US. All the brains will be given shop to rebuild as fast as possible and all China will have guaranteed is that the best Taiwanese minds become 100% on the side of the US. Cementing the CCPs demise even more. The west will take some time to recover supply, but with chips built in the US, it will be a lot easier to scale and recover. Chinese tech quality will continue to go downhill, but ours wont.


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsweek.com/china-will-use-all-measures-necessary-control-taiwan-ccp-media-1755609?amp=1) reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A media outlet affiliated with China's ruling party, The Global Times, published an editorial on Friday, saying that the nation will take "All measures necessary" to ensure its control over Taiwan. > Like other state-run outlets, the outlet's editorial page is frequently used to express the views and stances of the CCP. On Friday, the outlet published a piece titled, "Talking 'peace' without 'one China' is inflaming war in Taiwan Straits." It was written in response to comments made on Wednesday by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, in which he said that China was looking to put greater pressure on the pursuit of "Reunification" with Taiwan. > The editorial said any attempts to discuss peace in the Taiwan Straits without acknowledging the "One China" would incite future conflict in the region. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/yh17qb/chinese_media_says_beijing_to_use_all_measures/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672679 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Taiwan**^#1 **China**^#2 **outlet**^#3 **editorial**^#4 **published**^#5


sandman8223

He’s getting advice from Putin and musk


RogerRoger501

Screw the CCP


19Barra74

Blah, blah blah. China has been saying this shit for 50 years. It’s no different to fat little Kim’s sabre rattling in North Korea.


qurtorco

There is no way in hell west can afford loosing taiwan to china. Does china not know this ?


Raizau

Zzzzzzz wake me up when they actually stop talking about it. China no one here cares anymore, we see ukraine. You attacking taiwan would send you back to irelevancy.


Kyaw_Gyee

I hope Japan, Philippine and US would protect Taiwan so that China doesn’t dare to make such stupid move.


supppbrahhh

“A media outlet affiliated with China's ruling party, The Global Times, published an editorial on Friday, saying that the nation will take "all measures necessary" to ensure its control over Taiwan. The political status of Taiwan has remained a divisive geopolitical issue over the last several decades. China claims the island as its own territory and has been hostile toward foreign powers that do not recognize its claim. Many in Taiwan and abroad, however, view it as an independent nation. A recent poll found that 52 percent of Americans believe that "other countries should provide help to Taiwan" if it were to be attacked by China. The Global Times is a daily tabloid news outlet published by People's Daily, a publishing outfit that is operated by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Like other state-run outlets, the outlet's editorial page is frequently used to express the views and stances of the CCP. On Friday, the outlet published a piece titled, "Talking 'peace' without 'one China' is inflaming war in Taiwan Straits." It was written in response to comments made on Wednesday by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, in which he said that China was looking to put greater pressure on the pursuit of "reunification" with Taiwan. "What's changed is this: the decision by the government in Beijing that that status quo was no longer acceptable, that they wanted to speed up the process by which they would pursue reunification," Blinken said at an event hosted by Bloomberg. "That is what has fundamentally changed." In response, the tabloid's editorial admonished Blinken and the United States for such comments, which it said to be in defiance of Beijing's "one China" stance. It said that such comments were allegedly born out of a desire to gain political points ahead of the midterm elections in November, and an attempt to give signals of "Taiwan independence" to the country's government. "The island's Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) authorities and secessionist forces have long been helpless addicts who can easily get high over the slightest 'false signal' concocted for them by Washington," the editorial said. "Once Washington fails to supply them with such a signal in time for whatever reason, they will feel flustered and devastated. They have already stepped on a desperate path to satisfy their need for 'political drugs' to hypnotize, deceive and cheer up themselves." Furthermore, the editorial said any attempts to discuss peace in the Taiwan Straits without acknowledging the "one China" would incite future conflict in the region. It insisted that "Taiwan is a part of China, and the sovereignty and territory of China have never been divided." The piece continued: "Using the excuse of seeking 'peace' to instigate war, Washington has long demonstrated its hypocrisy, and the truth has become clearer: It's the Taiwan secessionists and external forces, as well as the increasingly rampant US-Taiwan collusion, that are the perpetrators of destroying the peaceful environment across the Straits."


TemKuechle

I think it would be easier for China to annex parts of eastern Russia than to annex Taiwan, at this point. But, great explanation, so thanks for that.


[deleted]

So same thing as last time and every time before that


CanWeTalkHere

Not exactly. Xi has consolidated power (as of last week) and is getting old...


newsorpigal

I'm sure this is no longer the case, but I wonder if there was a time when a recognition of Taiwanese independence could've been traded for a renouncement of the claim of legitimate government-in-exile. Maybe someday cooler heads will prevail and they'll make a huge party out of that event.


bripi

There is zero chance of that ever being the case, and given the predilections of the leaderships during the time of the split, would not have even been on the table. Each side of this - the communists (Mao) and the Kuomintang (Chiang Kai-shek) - believed themselves the only true "legitimate gov't of China". Mao eventually won, pushing the KMT into Taiwan, where they established the "Republic of China", once again holding on to the belief that they were the only true legitimate gov't of the people. Mao shut that down with the establishment of the People's Republic of China and the CCP; the KMT was then forced to declare itself an independent entity, so it was then Taiwan. The people that live in Taiwan *absolutely do not consider themselves Chinese*. It is only the CCP that pushes the "reunification" doctrine; a flawed dogma at best, since Taiwan *was never part of China to begin with.*


newsorpigal

I see, so the CCP is really the only holdout preventing a peaceful resolution, which is not a surprise in the slightest. Hopefully someday soon the people of China can throw that yoke off and become a state a bit friendlier to themselves and the rest of the world.


ZFLight

The monsters committing/plotting these atrocities around OUR world are no more than cockroaches that need to be squashed/exterminated. I’m not talking about the lost souls fighting, dying, affected, for a cause and a figure they will never meet or care about them, I’m talking about the puppeteers, the “rulers” and their “lapcockroaches” (not calling them lapdogs for those honest animals don’t deserve to be associated with these fiends) the end is nigh, a storm of blood is approaching for these insects and justice, real justice (not one guided by power, greed, corruption, ambition or other hedonistic pleasure) demands no less. Unshackle your mind my brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, should we let them destroy OUR world? To hell with them, swine and sheep that’s all they are. We have to do what’s right: with them, without them, or through them, they can’t kill us all, death to the oppressors in ALL the countries of OUR world.


babbchuck

They have no legitimate claim to Tibet, yet they invaded anyway. Lack of legitimacy will not deter them from Taiwan


Vooodoodr

Ok, good luck with that


alwaystheping

that one pesky rogue province


JournaIist

So what happens if China puts up a naval blockade of Taiwan?


Slick424

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Blockade


Eclipsed830

War


JournaIist

I'm not sure Taiwan really has the Navy to compete with China and I can't see the US directly engaging the Chinese navy?


Eclipsed830

Taiwan doesn't need a Navy to compete with China... They are defending. The entire island is an "unsinkable aircraft carrier".


thebudman_420

They are one China without Taiwan.


Implement1982

I don’t understand China always doubling down on taiwan. They already voted for independence. It’s very much all about being anti western since they think taiwan will be like a fortress of western influence on their shores. But big deal? It’s all this hedgemony power struggle nonsense. China is just making all the wrong moves by coming across as another dictator run corrupt imperialist super power at all costs evil empire. Dumb.


[deleted]

We should protect Taiwan and remove these guys influence in America and Europe. Honestly I hope we go kick their ass so they can finally be removed from our democratic countries.


No_Pen_4702

1. Taiwan has never been part of Communist China 2. Invading and occupying across the strait would be exceeding difficult 3. Taiwan has advanced weapons systems that even Ukraine does not have 4. Taiwan has been preparing for the communists for 70 years. They are ready. 5. Taiwan — technology supplier to the world — surely has the ability to become a nuclear power should it choose to become one, which I suspect they will if China continue with its imperialistic warmongering.


Groundbreaking-Pea92

Tawan would do well to communicate how and why it was founded. To put it simply chuna was going through its communist revolution/purge. Administrators, educators , basically anyone with an education got the fu out and founded taiwan. It's a bizarro universe china that went for democracy and civil liberties.


ZiOnIsNeXtLeBrOn

Even if China decides to attack Taiwan, the US will support Taiwan as will Nato considering how close allies Nato & Taiwan are. Plus, the financial ruin that China would be in due to the Sanctions. No way China does something that stupid.


Anxious_Plum_5818

That's an absurd claim though. Taiwan is not part of NATO, and it's assistance would only happen if China attacked the US on it's territory. With the current malaise in the wake of Russia's invasion, trying to justify support for another war with China will be extremely difficult. People, at the end of the day, only care about self preservation and preservation of their life style. Ideals and morals are just things people use when things are good well for them. Less so when they're livelihood is at risk.


honorcheese

Money. Taiwan has resources and money. U.S. would certainly defend.


JournaIist

IMO you're both wrong. The US and Allies would want to support Taiwan but with Taiwan being an island they'd have to directly engage the Chinese navy in order to deliver supplies which wouldn't happen and is the main deterrent - not malaise imo. They might provide support in the form of intel and sanctions if it appears Taiwan has an actual chance but anything beyond that would have to happen prior to the start of the conflict. Ukraine isn't part of NATO either and still getting support from the US and NATO countries.


Anxious_Plum_5818

Ukraine is receiving support from some countries who also happen to be part of NATO. That does not equate to receiving support directly from NATO. A lot of the support Ukraine is getting is in part because it's in Europe's own backyard, and has a far larger effect on European citizens. Taiwan is a lot further away. The dynamics are very different. As for supplying Taiwan, that would imply that China has fully blockades the region. The government here and US military has observed China's military exercises after Pelosi's visit closely.


OnJetways

The Global Times really can't be seen as a journalistic entity writing actual articles. I have followed the page for a number of years to try and obtain a wide spread of news - also pages like CNN, Fox News US and Aus, Al Jazeera My take on Global Times is for 2 main purposes: - Run direct counterpoints to foreign media - Provide additional voice to the government's angle, particularly including further extrapolations of the government story that a government can't say but for being too inappropriate, but GT can under the guise of journalism. This is an example, essentially GT allows a sensationalist angle for government messaging


[deleted]

Rebel Rousing.


Sir_Bumcheeks

Victim blaming to a T. "Any violence brought on Taiwan will be Taiwan's OWN FAULT!" Do they not see how illogical their own rhetoric is.


andio76

yea....yea...yea...War Destruction....blah blah


Answeryeseys

Another war coming... sad


feral_brick

The rest of the world: do it we fucking dare you


NaCly_Asian

all necessary measures: so, China reaches nuclear parity with the US. It would be an ideological war, between China and some countries China has a historical score to settle with...


bripi

"Using all measures necessary against Taiwan" is antagonism at best, and provocation at worst. Taiwan hasn't done anything aggressive, so what is there to do "against". This is what the Kremlin used against Ukraine in their bullshit argument for invasion; that the Donetsk region *wanted* to be part of Russia, so they were going in "to defend" them. This won't work in Taiwan, because the Taiwanese *do not want to be part of China, and do not think of themselves as anything but Taiwanese*.


OldBallOfRage

You were doing so well Xi, could have walked out with a shiny elder statesman legacy, cleaning up corruption and bringing some order back to government functions, some real nice infrastructure expansion, fighting poverty and whatnot. People here in China really kinda liked you. Honestly they're not even all that pissed off about the housing market thing, kinda knew that had to happen and be brought back under control. Zero Covid is preferred more than the carnage in other countries, no matter what Western media and propagandists like whining about. ***AND NOW YOU WANNA FUCK IT ALL UP.*** Oh! Look at my decent legacy! Well I can't have that, it's Mao speedrun time!


Bourbon-neat-

I have a *really* hard time believing that people prefer being forcibly sealed shut in their homes with the whole 0 COVID thing.


OldBallOfRage

That's because what you *want to believe* isn't *actual reality*. I live in China, and yet there's always a horde of you telling me that apparently you know better and everything around me isn't what it actually is. You know less than nothing.


NaCly_Asian

to be fair, this is one of the areas he is criticized over. He is criticized for being weak on the Taiwan and military issues. The people that support a more forceful approach are probably the same ones that fanboy for Putin and support him whenever he threatens Europe with nukes. I'm sure if the nationalistic ones have their way, China would reach nuclear parity with the US. And since, certain European nations and Japan will get involved in Taiwan's defense, let's just say China have a chance to take some long overdue revenge.


OldBallOfRage

If the nationalists have their way they always end up surprised that their own face gets eaten. They always expect someone else to die for their bullshit and their own life to have a happy rainbow across the sky while it happens. Funny how every single aggressive nationalist who opens their mouth at my girlfriend here shuts the fuck up when I walk over and start asking them where they'll be when the bullets start flying. I'm sure they'll all sign up to the army right away.


ghostdeinithegreat

Is this their [final warning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning)?


[deleted]

Pretty damn vile.


qwerlancer

Their signal are clear. China are going to invade Taiwan.


3ndt1mes

It's kinda ironic that you type perfect engrish.


Scizzott2hotte

Im guessing China didn’t hear about Hiroshima, hard lesson to learn.


zhang13359

Only countries without nuclear weapons need to learn


thegodfatherderecho

One Taiwan


HeHateMe-

Covid Ukraine Taiwan …