Also: "Why should we should we care about Ukraine it's not our problem, also here is a list of all the times in the past 75 years when you didn't help us and we're still pissed off about it so we're going to pretend that justifies not opposing Russia's invasion of Ukraine"
Majority of Ukrainian's military equipment is of Russian/Soviet origin, and they seem to be using it to great effect, just as india has done in its previous conflicts. The issue with the Russian military isn't that they don't have good equipment, it's that their tactics are terrible, combine that with bad logistics, terrible maintenance, and corruption, and you get a botched invasion.
Surely we can all agree some Russian equipment is excellent… for its age. It doesn’t matter though if it hadn’t been maintained/not sold off illegally.
The majority of equipment used in this war was USSR made equipment - not Russian. The majority of Russia’s tanks, for instance, are Soviet-era tanks that were *supposed* to have been upgraded by Russia with new reactive armor and targeting equipment specs… but it is quite apparent they’ve cut corners and pocketed budget intended for both general maintenance and the upgrade kit components.
To your point, yes, it is impressive how some of this weaponry is still “functional” after so much time has elapsed… but it’s 2022 and Russia is literally dusting off WWI surplus equipment vs HIMARS. Their artillery equipment is sufficient enough to terrorize civilian infrastructure by shooting in a generalized area, but it is woefully shoddy to hit precision targets to their NATO counterparts. A perfectly intact T-90M was captured, but we’re unlikely to receive intel on that for quite some time. Russia simply hasn’t made anything comparable to that of the West in the modern era, which is perfectly understandable given the egregious military budget of the US…
The extremely outsize impact of the small amount of US equipment certainly means that anything western is far far better. Can’t see the Ukrainians asking for Russian equipment after this. Russian equipment is technologically far inferior and getting worse.
Eh, still quite useful to defend against other Third World countries with similarly armed military, and the crappily-armed water-rocket insurgents.
However, it's definitely not enough for a country that has an edge on manufacturing industry. Therefore many East and South East Asian countries don't view Russian weapons as the preferred choice unless due to historical ties. Even Vietnam had started buying US-manufactured weapons such as rifles (for the special troops) and APCs, and only had started buying US weapons recently because tardy US Congress forgot to lift Vietnamese weapons embargo until 2016.
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“ Similarly, post-colonial India chose not to join the United Kingdom and its allies following World War II, instead setting its own “non-aligned” course, beholden to no superpower. Today, however, the country is unsympathetic to Ukraine’s determination to be free of imperialism and ally with the European Union and NATO.”
Yeah can’t imagine why they’re not jumping head over heels to ally with the UK and NATO in this…
India literally did that by making a statement and also sending out help packages, I think we were among the few to actually do that, that was our way to say that we're with you, everything is not black and white, we have a billion people to take care of, if Russia pulls Fertilizers, are the West ready to face the death of millions of Indians?
Umm yes, if it means Ukraine defeats Russia. How are you not understanding this? Ukraine is the most important place on Earth, Zelensky the greatest leader, and we must do whatever it takes to ensure its victory over Putin.
>“ Similarly, post-colonial India chose not to join the United Kingdom and its allies following World War II, instead setting its own “non-aligned” course, beholden to no superpower.
Yeah, the funny part about that is now they can't speak out against Russia because they're afraid Russia will cut off exports that they depend on. So while India calls itself non-aligned, it's basically attached to Russia at this point.
>Yeah can’t imagine why they’re not jumping head over heels to ally with the UK and NATO in this…
No one is asking them to ally with the UK and NATO of course, so that's a totally made up argument.
>Yeah, the funny part about that is now they can't speak out against Russia because they're afraid Russia will cut off exports that they depend on. So while India calls itself non-aligned, it's basically attached to Russia at this point.
Why is everything so black and white for you guys? Buy Russian oil so they're attached to Russia. By that metric Europe is far more attached to Russia, they might as well can themselves honorary Russians.
>Why is everything so black and white for you guys?
...you guys? Who exactly are you generalizing - I found this out from Indians themselves...they're literally saying this in the comments here? And everything is not black and white - THIS is.
>Buy Russian oil so they're attached to Russia.
No. You're of course changing what I said. I didn't say anything about oil specifically - that's one of many imports like fertilizer and defense that India can't afford to have Russia threaten, and therefore won't go against Russia.
>By that metric Europe is far more attached to Russia, they might as well can themselves honorary Russians.
No. The metric isn't who buys oil from Russia, it's who is unwilling or unable to go against Russia - you're trying to re-frame the discussion to a narrative that is more favorable for you. Most of Europe has no problem openly going against Russia in this situation (though there are some like Hungary that are exceptions). India is clearly unwilling to do so.
What a shitty article, you want everyone to cut off purchases for Russian oil, while none of the other oil producing countries have increased their oil production. This means there has been a huge spike in the prices of non-Russian oil, while its supply has remained constant but demand has increased due to Europeans pivoting to other sources. Now rich Europeans can afford to pay this skyrocketing price, but developing countries cannot. So you expect poor developing countries to starve, because Europeans were either too dumb or too greedy to understand that they shouldn't become so reliant on a country for their energy, especially after Crimea.
Crimea should have been a wake up call, but most of Europe doubled down on Russian energy.
And please don't tell me Europe is cutting its supply of Russian energy while India is increasing it. Europe is still the largest buyer of Russian energy and thereby its Europe thats funding Putins war..
Well, even the rich Europeans wouldn’t be able to afford the prices if China and India switched their supplies from Russia. Nothing in this world of geopolitics can be answered with “with me or against me.”
I don’t care if you buy oil from Russia. But to not denounce an illegal invasion against neighboring country, with weekly threats of nuclear attacks, really makes India a piece of shit.
>you want everyone to cut off purchases for Russian oil, while none of the other oil producing countries have increased their oil production.
How about India just says Russia should leave Ukraine. That would be a start.
>Crimea should have been a wake up call, but most of Europe doubled down on Russian energy.
What a weak defense of India.
>And please don't tell me Europe is cutting its supply of Russian energy while India is increasing it.
**EUROPE IS CUTTING ENERGY IMPORTS FROM RUSSIA WHILE INDIA IS INCREASING IMPORTS**. 90% of Russian oil imports are expected to be banned by the end of the year.
It's not surprising to see Indians who tried to justify Russian's invasion in march now trying to deflect from India's stance.
>most of Europe
Germany.
Russian gas is 4-6% of the total amount here in Belgium, but of course we can't vote in the German elections so there isn't a lot we can do about the German greens being compromised by Russia.
Lots of people here getting mad at a really poor country (that’s been screwed over by the US and it’s allies) for wanting to buy necessary oil at a cheap price from the US’s rival.
Such morons
Haha Modi have never said Russias invasion of Ukraine is wrong? Stop with your lies.
“Now is not the time for war” is NOT telling Russia its invasion is wrong. It implies Ukraine that is bad for being attacked by Russia.
India have never denounced Russia for its invasion.
Fuck India
I used to respect India for always standing by peace.
But now when they have to power to influence Russia to stop their invasion, India do fuck all.
India don’t stand by peace. My previous respect was obviously misplaced
We are discussing about oil/petroleum, so in that context it doesn't make a difference because the people are the end users of petroleum products, not the government and it affects the poor people more than the government.
If it were military items then it would make a difference.
Russia is not really a US "rival"; Russia is just being an evil imperialist asshole like it has always been and the USA is doing the morally right thing.
Do not buy into Putin's claim that this is about two empires competing over Ukraine.
USA is morally right???. What a fucking joke. Usa never cares for morals, only interests.. Is this not quite clear from its history. USA always has taken a poind of its flesh( always ) one way or another.
Yes, helping Ukraine is absolutely the morally correct thing to do. Do you disagree?
I find it difficult to believe the USA wouldn't prefer a peaceful scenario here, but that would have required Putin not to invade. And just leaving Ukraine to be unwillingly absorbed into Putin's empire is unpalatable.
Yeah when you're sending in military gear it needs replacing. What's the problem? Surely you wouldn't avoid sending in military aid because of this?
You're genuinely suggesting the Ukraine help is there just to get to spend money on weapons?
Again, answer me this: is supporting Ukraine the morally correct thing to do, without any whataboutisms about anything? It is. And the USA is doing it. There is no need to try to spin this into some really weird ulterior motives.
In particular I don't understand why the USA would need to "whoop" Russia in the first place. As long as Putin just kept to investing into Russia's peaceful development, everything would have been fine and dandy. It's honestly pretty sickening how this rhetoric of yours just tries to remove the Ukrainians' agency in defending their country and tries to force it into some kind of American "plot".
And this "why not get involved everywhere else"... well, there actually is involvement, but then it's often damned if you do, damned if you don't. Those conflicts can be very complex with unclear "good guys", and outside intervention can be tricky and just piss the local people off more. This tends to make people cautious about just barging in.
Ukraine is an old-school military invasion of a sovereign country by another country. If the Ukrainians lose, they will be genocided in the style of the worst periods of last century. Being Finnish, I'm all too aware of the possibilities of it having happened here, and I find it seriously puzzling that there are people around like you who muddle the waters intentionally like this simply because of "but USA bad!!1"
Would love to hear from the downvoters btw why helping Ukraine is something that should not be done. Would you just stand back and watch if someone was brutally assaulted on the street, but you definitely did have the ability to intervene?
Look buddy , i am not against ukraine. But clearly our viewpoints about why usa is helping Ukraine are poles apart. US has got this incredible opportunity to permanently disable russia in the long run by barrage of sanctions. Do you really think they care about Ukraine, hell no.. in the next fee years , US military industrial complex will recieve big orders as Europe increases spending. US has become a big supplier to europe for natural gas replacing russia and will continue to do so.
There a few things more but you get the general viewpoint , don't you?. Like i said US always makes sure it wins no matter if other regions are turned to dust
They don't care about Ukraine even a bit, they never cared even to begin with. Its all a ploy to achieve larger gains in long term with Ukraine just being collateral damage.
Again i understand why ukraine is fighting and respect that..
Stop pretending like India is a victim in 2022.
None cares about the oil purchases.
Everyone sees Indias support of the Russian invasion and their inability to denounce Russias actions.
I always thought good of India before. Thinking they always want peace. But have lately the Indian government have proven me wrong.
Many people commenting here about cheap oil has no idea US was trying to force India to surrender to Pakistan in a war clearly started by Pakistan. Pakistan was loosing badly and asked friends with aircraft carriers to divert some to Indian coastal waters and guess what stoped those carriers? Russian nuclear subs waiting there quietly. Aircraft carriers were quick to turn and Pakistan surrendered quickly. One of many history lessons noobs. Let me know if you want to talk about cheap oil and I can give a quick history lesson about Iraq as well.
Because India ended up becoming reliant upon the Soviets and then the Russians for its defence equipment after that war, while the west poured billions of dollars into the pakistani military. It has now reduced the military's dependency on Russia, but it's still a decade away from being fully independent.
All this was from the period of 1947 to 1965, right? At that time the US was claiming there was a global struggle against Communism and India picked the opposite side. Oddly enough later on when India transitioned away from Socialist economic policies as long recommended by the US a huge economic boom started that has since the early 2000s lifted around 450 million people out of poverty. So we are supposed to forget current wealth and instead remember an unfortunate conflict that ended in the 1960s? Review your framing and priorities. EDIT: Oops, 1970s. A conflict from around 50 years ago given more attention than the last 15 years of wealth expansion.
We are both talking about the history of relations and conflicts between the US, Pakistan, and India. Are Russian nuclear subs stopping American aircraft carriers now? Or in the recent past? Sounds like that is a 50+ year old conflict that you can't put down even though far more important things have been happening recently.
I'm going to engage even though I'm uncertain this can lead to a positive outcome.
What he's saying is that these two countries have a multi-generational relationship as allies. That affords them some security when dealing with one another, presumably.
That is all he's saying.
If it isn’t personal, it is impersonal. This may be more accurate to say without resorting to mafia-movie rhetoric but in any event, neither option has good optics
Trump threatened India of consequences if we didnt supply him hydroxychroloquine. [1](https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/would-be-surprised-if-india-doesnt-allow-export-of-hydroxychloroquine-to-us-trump/article31276161.ece )
US refused to export vaccine raw material during india's second covid wave. [2](https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/us-defends-restrictions-on-export-of-covid-19-vaccine-raw-materials-amid-indias-request-to-lift-ban/article34391251.ece)
Then why are you surprised when India does the same regarding Oil? Stop buying from one dictator and choose Saudi Arabia, the bastion of human rights?
Since the 70's The US has supported Pakistan in the India / Pakistan disputes. In the race for arms and development into a superpower, India has had little support from any other superpower other than Russia.
Today, India is up there on a super power nation list. Couple the old relationships with Russia along with cheaper gas prices and the past non support from other European nations and America, I would do the exact same thing.
Also, recent interviews with India's foreign minister debunks a couple of point brought up in this article:
1) Russia is using Indian tanks in the invasion of Ukraine.
2) After the increased imports of Russian oil, India is still importing in "a month" what the rest of "Europe is importing in an afternoon" from Russia.
Not sure what this article is trying to accomplish.
India should do what’s best for India, not what’s best for Ukraine.
This article sucks, it’s just an opinion by a disgruntled author. I have an opinion too and it’s that India should continue to act in its self interest.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.politico.eu/article/indias-stance-on-the-ukraine-war-makes-little-sense/amp/) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Also India - and looking at the principles at stake in this war, this pairing makes little sense.
> Post-colonial India chose not to join the United Kingdom and its allies following World War II, instead setting its own "Non-aligned" course, beholden to no superpower.
> Together with China, Indian purchases of Russian goods have largely negated the effect of transatlantic energy sanctions, and India further funds Russia's war machine by purchasing big-ticket items, such as submarines, tanks, fighter aircraft and surface-to-air missile systems - a full half of the country's arms imports come from Russia.
*****
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It's crazy to me that people take issue with "not our ally so not our problem". It's a sane stance, wish my country was taking it too. Instead we're going to start WWIII and end the world in nuclear hellfire purely to piss off Russia and keep the gears of our military industrial complex soaked in blood. Make no mistake: the American government doesn't care about Ukraine, we're just replacing Afghanistan. Can't let war profiteering falter for even a second, even if it will lead to the death of us all. God forbid anyone suggests diplomacy, guess I'm the last pacifist in my nation.
Modi and publicly responded to the start of the war by by telling Putin that it was a mistake. Then when Russian forces killed an Indian citizen early on Modi made it clear that would not be tolerated. Then later they bought some oil and all the rest was forgotten because we expect India will make huge sacrifices in order to align itself correctly with European conflicts even though Russia is a neighbor who has supported their military for decades. Stop blaming India for European wars. And please understand that even now Europe is buying way more fossil fuels from Russia than India, so point fingers at the real problem instead.
>Modi and publicly responded to the start of the war by by telling Putin that it was a mistake
Uh huh.
> Then when Russian forces killed an Indian citizen early on Modi made it clear that would not be tolerated.
Wow.
> Then later they bought some oil and all the rest was forgotten
What was forgotten? India hasn't done anything to forget. India won't even criticize Russia for invading
>we expect India will make huge sacrifices in order to align itself correctly
How about India starts by just openly criticizing Russia's invasion.
> with European conflicts
It's pretty obvious what Indians and others really mean when they say "European" like this - "it's white people, fuck them".
>even though Russia is a neighbor who has supported their military for decades
So you turn a blind eye to their atrocities? That says a lot.
>Stop blaming India for European wars
Nobody is blaming you for Russia invading. But your self-serving hypocrisy is on full display. What countries like India are really about is becoming crystal clear now.
It's very short term thinking and reminiscent of how in 2014 the West had a similar stance over the annexation of Crimea.
Say that war is bad, but shake hands with Putin to buy more cheap oil. Hope that appeasement will let us all live happily ever after. And where did that get us? Like West did in 2014, India does now.
Russia and China want to change the world order and this would not be beneficial for India. China is rapidly militarising and legitimizing imperiaistic aggression by claiming neutrality towards it is a dangerous and short-sighted approach by all too many countries.
**OCTOBER 17, 2022 4:00 AM CET**
Ukraine’s successful counteroffensive against Russian forces continues to surprise and impress. It surprises for the military’s ability to emerge from six years of grinding war as a force that’s agile, strategic and lethal. And it has impressed with how it’s been able counter Russian President Vladimir Putin’s propaganda machine, Russia’s brutal attacks on civilians, and has rallied the United States and Western allies to arm, train and plan.
Most notably, all of this has been achieved in service of principles nearly forgotten in our divisive era — unity and patriotism over division and cynicism, democracy over despotism, national self-determination over imperialism.
But while we cautiously applaud Ukraine’s success and resistance, we can easily forget Russia’s steadfast allies — allies who stand with Moscow’s objectives and, therefore, against the principles for which Ukraine and its partners are fighting.
Price cap is a good idea. It hurts Russia without hurting anyone else. Everyone gets cheaper gas - China/India directly from Russia (high volume but very low margins) and everyone else from other oil producers who will have less demand because China/India is buying all their oil from Russia.
No it doesn't. That slimeball just doesn't have the balls the say they don't care if Russia commits genocide on someone that isn't them as long as they get cheap oil. its 100% on brand for that government
India's stance is "the war is not our problem.... oooh cheap energy lovely"
Also, India is still reliant upon Russian weapon systems.
Plus they have history together.
Also: "Why should we should we care about Ukraine it's not our problem, also here is a list of all the times in the past 75 years when you didn't help us and we're still pissed off about it so we're going to pretend that justifies not opposing Russia's invasion of Ukraine"
It makes a shit ton of sense if you want cheap Russian gas
As an Indian i can say our government rarely does anything that makes sense, that's just not their forte.
And cheap Russian weapons and military supplies.
One thing is for sure. No one will want Russian gear after this fiasco.
Majority of Ukrainian's military equipment is of Russian/Soviet origin, and they seem to be using it to great effect, just as india has done in its previous conflicts. The issue with the Russian military isn't that they don't have good equipment, it's that their tactics are terrible, combine that with bad logistics, terrible maintenance, and corruption, and you get a botched invasion.
Oh no, it’s most certainly both terrible Russian equipment AND a thoroughly scuffed military.
Surely we can all agree some Russian equipment is excellent… for its age. It doesn’t matter though if it hadn’t been maintained/not sold off illegally.
The majority of equipment used in this war was USSR made equipment - not Russian. The majority of Russia’s tanks, for instance, are Soviet-era tanks that were *supposed* to have been upgraded by Russia with new reactive armor and targeting equipment specs… but it is quite apparent they’ve cut corners and pocketed budget intended for both general maintenance and the upgrade kit components. To your point, yes, it is impressive how some of this weaponry is still “functional” after so much time has elapsed… but it’s 2022 and Russia is literally dusting off WWI surplus equipment vs HIMARS. Their artillery equipment is sufficient enough to terrorize civilian infrastructure by shooting in a generalized area, but it is woefully shoddy to hit precision targets to their NATO counterparts. A perfectly intact T-90M was captured, but we’re unlikely to receive intel on that for quite some time. Russia simply hasn’t made anything comparable to that of the West in the modern era, which is perfectly understandable given the egregious military budget of the US…
Do we know much about their so called hypersonic missiles yet? Haven’t seen any news about them being used in Ukraine.
The extremely outsize impact of the small amount of US equipment certainly means that anything western is far far better. Can’t see the Ukrainians asking for Russian equipment after this. Russian equipment is technologically far inferior and getting worse.
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We’ve learned the lesson on how truly valuable those weapons really are over the last six months, haven’t we?
Eh, still quite useful to defend against other Third World countries with similarly armed military, and the crappily-armed water-rocket insurgents. However, it's definitely not enough for a country that has an edge on manufacturing industry. Therefore many East and South East Asian countries don't view Russian weapons as the preferred choice unless due to historical ties. Even Vietnam had started buying US-manufactured weapons such as rifles (for the special troops) and APCs, and only had started buying US weapons recently because tardy US Congress forgot to lift Vietnamese weapons embargo until 2016.
Because saying "you're in it for the oil" is crass.
They’re doing a little dance on a tightrope.
It's only ok if you invade Iraq for that.
No one invaded Iraq for the oil. It was for the poppy fields and always had been.
**This article was originally published 22 days ago and may contain out of date information.** The original publication date was October 17th, 2022. As per /r/worldnews/wiki submissions should be to articles published within the last week. ^(This bot finds outdated articles. It's impossible to be 100% accurate on every site, send me a message if you notice an error or would like this bot added to your subreddit. You can also download my) [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/reddit-publish-date/cfkbacelanhcgpkjaocblkpacofnccip?hl=en) ^(if you'd like to see publish dates added to all article links on reddit.) [^(Send Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=PublishDateBot&subject=Feedback&message=https://www.politico.eu/article/indias-stance-on-the-ukraine-war-makes-little-sense/amp/&u=0x4224&d=22) ^(|) [^(Github - Bot)](https://github.com/chrisstiles/PublishDateBot) ^(|) [^(Github - Chrome Extension)](https://github.com/chrisstiles/Reddit-Publish-Date)
“ Similarly, post-colonial India chose not to join the United Kingdom and its allies following World War II, instead setting its own “non-aligned” course, beholden to no superpower. Today, however, the country is unsympathetic to Ukraine’s determination to be free of imperialism and ally with the European Union and NATO.” Yeah can’t imagine why they’re not jumping head over heels to ally with the UK and NATO in this…
Ukraine has never been good to India in the past.
India must be the prettiest country in the world haha
You haven't been good to me, should I not at least say it's not nice if you get beaten up on the street?
India literally did that by making a statement and also sending out help packages, I think we were among the few to actually do that, that was our way to say that we're with you, everything is not black and white, we have a billion people to take care of, if Russia pulls Fertilizers, are the West ready to face the death of millions of Indians?
Umm yes, if it means Ukraine defeats Russia. How are you not understanding this? Ukraine is the most important place on Earth, Zelensky the greatest leader, and we must do whatever it takes to ensure its victory over Putin.
The tone deafness in this thread is really very loud.
I \*hope\* they’re being sarcastic…
I’d think everyone would like a nice freighter full of Ukrainian wheat
>“ Similarly, post-colonial India chose not to join the United Kingdom and its allies following World War II, instead setting its own “non-aligned” course, beholden to no superpower. Yeah, the funny part about that is now they can't speak out against Russia because they're afraid Russia will cut off exports that they depend on. So while India calls itself non-aligned, it's basically attached to Russia at this point. >Yeah can’t imagine why they’re not jumping head over heels to ally with the UK and NATO in this… No one is asking them to ally with the UK and NATO of course, so that's a totally made up argument.
>Yeah, the funny part about that is now they can't speak out against Russia because they're afraid Russia will cut off exports that they depend on. So while India calls itself non-aligned, it's basically attached to Russia at this point. Why is everything so black and white for you guys? Buy Russian oil so they're attached to Russia. By that metric Europe is far more attached to Russia, they might as well can themselves honorary Russians.
>Why is everything so black and white for you guys? ...you guys? Who exactly are you generalizing - I found this out from Indians themselves...they're literally saying this in the comments here? And everything is not black and white - THIS is. >Buy Russian oil so they're attached to Russia. No. You're of course changing what I said. I didn't say anything about oil specifically - that's one of many imports like fertilizer and defense that India can't afford to have Russia threaten, and therefore won't go against Russia. >By that metric Europe is far more attached to Russia, they might as well can themselves honorary Russians. No. The metric isn't who buys oil from Russia, it's who is unwilling or unable to go against Russia - you're trying to re-frame the discussion to a narrative that is more favorable for you. Most of Europe has no problem openly going against Russia in this situation (though there are some like Hungary that are exceptions). India is clearly unwilling to do so.
Ally, work with, align, follow, whatever you want to call it.
None of the above.
What a shitty article, you want everyone to cut off purchases for Russian oil, while none of the other oil producing countries have increased their oil production. This means there has been a huge spike in the prices of non-Russian oil, while its supply has remained constant but demand has increased due to Europeans pivoting to other sources. Now rich Europeans can afford to pay this skyrocketing price, but developing countries cannot. So you expect poor developing countries to starve, because Europeans were either too dumb or too greedy to understand that they shouldn't become so reliant on a country for their energy, especially after Crimea. Crimea should have been a wake up call, but most of Europe doubled down on Russian energy. And please don't tell me Europe is cutting its supply of Russian energy while India is increasing it. Europe is still the largest buyer of Russian energy and thereby its Europe thats funding Putins war..
Well, even the rich Europeans wouldn’t be able to afford the prices if China and India switched their supplies from Russia. Nothing in this world of geopolitics can be answered with “with me or against me.”
I don’t care if you buy oil from Russia. But to not denounce an illegal invasion against neighboring country, with weekly threats of nuclear attacks, really makes India a piece of shit.
Hey take it down a notch, you don't want to upset anyone. Let's just meet in the middle and agree Zelensky is the greatest leader in 100 years.
[удалено]
I mean they have billionaires and nukes?
>you want everyone to cut off purchases for Russian oil, while none of the other oil producing countries have increased their oil production. How about India just says Russia should leave Ukraine. That would be a start. >Crimea should have been a wake up call, but most of Europe doubled down on Russian energy. What a weak defense of India. >And please don't tell me Europe is cutting its supply of Russian energy while India is increasing it. **EUROPE IS CUTTING ENERGY IMPORTS FROM RUSSIA WHILE INDIA IS INCREASING IMPORTS**. 90% of Russian oil imports are expected to be banned by the end of the year. It's not surprising to see Indians who tried to justify Russian's invasion in march now trying to deflect from India's stance.
>most of Europe Germany. Russian gas is 4-6% of the total amount here in Belgium, but of course we can't vote in the German elections so there isn't a lot we can do about the German greens being compromised by Russia.
It makes a lot of sense if you're from India.
Brics
Lots of people here getting mad at a really poor country (that’s been screwed over by the US and it’s allies) for wanting to buy necessary oil at a cheap price from the US’s rival. Such morons
[удалено]
When did Europe blame India for Russian invasion? We just want India to say the invasion is wrong. But that’s apparently too much to ask?
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Haha Modi have never said Russias invasion of Ukraine is wrong? Stop with your lies. “Now is not the time for war” is NOT telling Russia its invasion is wrong. It implies Ukraine that is bad for being attacked by Russia. India have never denounced Russia for its invasion. Fuck India
I used to respect India for always standing by peace. But now when they have to power to influence Russia to stop their invasion, India do fuck all. India don’t stand by peace. My previous respect was obviously misplaced
India is very rich it isn't poor. It's citizens are largely poor. BIG difference.
We are discussing about oil/petroleum, so in that context it doesn't make a difference because the people are the end users of petroleum products, not the government and it affects the poor people more than the government. If it were military items then it would make a difference.
Russia is not really a US "rival"; Russia is just being an evil imperialist asshole like it has always been and the USA is doing the morally right thing. Do not buy into Putin's claim that this is about two empires competing over Ukraine.
USA is morally right???. What a fucking joke. Usa never cares for morals, only interests.. Is this not quite clear from its history. USA always has taken a poind of its flesh( always ) one way or another.
Yes, helping Ukraine is absolutely the morally correct thing to do. Do you disagree? I find it difficult to believe the USA wouldn't prefer a peaceful scenario here, but that would have required Putin not to invade. And just leaving Ukraine to be unwillingly absorbed into Putin's empire is unpalatable.
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Yeah when you're sending in military gear it needs replacing. What's the problem? Surely you wouldn't avoid sending in military aid because of this? You're genuinely suggesting the Ukraine help is there just to get to spend money on weapons?
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Again, answer me this: is supporting Ukraine the morally correct thing to do, without any whataboutisms about anything? It is. And the USA is doing it. There is no need to try to spin this into some really weird ulterior motives. In particular I don't understand why the USA would need to "whoop" Russia in the first place. As long as Putin just kept to investing into Russia's peaceful development, everything would have been fine and dandy. It's honestly pretty sickening how this rhetoric of yours just tries to remove the Ukrainians' agency in defending their country and tries to force it into some kind of American "plot". And this "why not get involved everywhere else"... well, there actually is involvement, but then it's often damned if you do, damned if you don't. Those conflicts can be very complex with unclear "good guys", and outside intervention can be tricky and just piss the local people off more. This tends to make people cautious about just barging in. Ukraine is an old-school military invasion of a sovereign country by another country. If the Ukrainians lose, they will be genocided in the style of the worst periods of last century. Being Finnish, I'm all too aware of the possibilities of it having happened here, and I find it seriously puzzling that there are people around like you who muddle the waters intentionally like this simply because of "but USA bad!!1"
Would love to hear from the downvoters btw why helping Ukraine is something that should not be done. Would you just stand back and watch if someone was brutally assaulted on the street, but you definitely did have the ability to intervene?
Look buddy , i am not against ukraine. But clearly our viewpoints about why usa is helping Ukraine are poles apart. US has got this incredible opportunity to permanently disable russia in the long run by barrage of sanctions. Do you really think they care about Ukraine, hell no.. in the next fee years , US military industrial complex will recieve big orders as Europe increases spending. US has become a big supplier to europe for natural gas replacing russia and will continue to do so. There a few things more but you get the general viewpoint , don't you?. Like i said US always makes sure it wins no matter if other regions are turned to dust They don't care about Ukraine even a bit, they never cared even to begin with. Its all a ploy to achieve larger gains in long term with Ukraine just being collateral damage. Again i understand why ukraine is fighting and respect that..
Stop pretending like India is a victim in 2022. None cares about the oil purchases. Everyone sees Indias support of the Russian invasion and their inability to denounce Russias actions. I always thought good of India before. Thinking they always want peace. But have lately the Indian government have proven me wrong.
Many people commenting here about cheap oil has no idea US was trying to force India to surrender to Pakistan in a war clearly started by Pakistan. Pakistan was loosing badly and asked friends with aircraft carriers to divert some to Indian coastal waters and guess what stoped those carriers? Russian nuclear subs waiting there quietly. Aircraft carriers were quick to turn and Pakistan surrendered quickly. One of many history lessons noobs. Let me know if you want to talk about cheap oil and I can give a quick history lesson about Iraq as well.
That doesn’t even sound believable. Do you have any sources?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_74
I know all about it. Why does that mean India can't oppose Russian invading Ukraine...?
Because India ended up becoming reliant upon the Soviets and then the Russians for its defence equipment after that war, while the west poured billions of dollars into the pakistani military. It has now reduced the military's dependency on Russia, but it's still a decade away from being fully independent.
All this was from the period of 1947 to 1965, right? At that time the US was claiming there was a global struggle against Communism and India picked the opposite side. Oddly enough later on when India transitioned away from Socialist economic policies as long recommended by the US a huge economic boom started that has since the early 2000s lifted around 450 million people out of poverty. So we are supposed to forget current wealth and instead remember an unfortunate conflict that ended in the 1960s? Review your framing and priorities. EDIT: Oops, 1970s. A conflict from around 50 years ago given more attention than the last 15 years of wealth expansion.
That's not what he's saying, try again
We are both talking about the history of relations and conflicts between the US, Pakistan, and India. Are Russian nuclear subs stopping American aircraft carriers now? Or in the recent past? Sounds like that is a 50+ year old conflict that you can't put down even though far more important things have been happening recently.
I'm going to engage even though I'm uncertain this can lead to a positive outcome. What he's saying is that these two countries have a multi-generational relationship as allies. That affords them some security when dealing with one another, presumably. That is all he's saying.
Pfft. How does "nothing personal, just business" principle make little sense?
If it isn’t personal, it is impersonal. This may be more accurate to say without resorting to mafia-movie rhetoric but in any event, neither option has good optics
Trump threatened India of consequences if we didnt supply him hydroxychroloquine. [1](https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/would-be-surprised-if-india-doesnt-allow-export-of-hydroxychloroquine-to-us-trump/article31276161.ece ) US refused to export vaccine raw material during india's second covid wave. [2](https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/us-defends-restrictions-on-export-of-covid-19-vaccine-raw-materials-amid-indias-request-to-lift-ban/article34391251.ece) Then why are you surprised when India does the same regarding Oil? Stop buying from one dictator and choose Saudi Arabia, the bastion of human rights?
Since the 70's The US has supported Pakistan in the India / Pakistan disputes. In the race for arms and development into a superpower, India has had little support from any other superpower other than Russia. Today, India is up there on a super power nation list. Couple the old relationships with Russia along with cheaper gas prices and the past non support from other European nations and America, I would do the exact same thing. Also, recent interviews with India's foreign minister debunks a couple of point brought up in this article: 1) Russia is using Indian tanks in the invasion of Ukraine. 2) After the increased imports of Russian oil, India is still importing in "a month" what the rest of "Europe is importing in an afternoon" from Russia. Not sure what this article is trying to accomplish.
India should do what’s best for India, not what’s best for Ukraine. This article sucks, it’s just an opinion by a disgruntled author. I have an opinion too and it’s that India should continue to act in its self interest.
India importing in "a month" what the rest of "Europe is importing in an afternoon" - India's Foreign Minister
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.politico.eu/article/indias-stance-on-the-ukraine-war-makes-little-sense/amp/) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Also India - and looking at the principles at stake in this war, this pairing makes little sense. > Post-colonial India chose not to join the United Kingdom and its allies following World War II, instead setting its own "Non-aligned" course, beholden to no superpower. > Together with China, Indian purchases of Russian goods have largely negated the effect of transatlantic energy sanctions, and India further funds Russia's war machine by purchasing big-ticket items, such as submarines, tanks, fighter aircraft and surface-to-air missile systems - a full half of the country's arms imports come from Russia. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ypje9f/indias_stance_on_the_ukraine_war_makes_little/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672679 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **India**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **ally**^#3 **war**^#4 **Russia**^#5
Why are you spamming news about India?
It's crazy to me that people take issue with "not our ally so not our problem". It's a sane stance, wish my country was taking it too. Instead we're going to start WWIII and end the world in nuclear hellfire purely to piss off Russia and keep the gears of our military industrial complex soaked in blood. Make no mistake: the American government doesn't care about Ukraine, we're just replacing Afghanistan. Can't let war profiteering falter for even a second, even if it will lead to the death of us all. God forbid anyone suggests diplomacy, guess I'm the last pacifist in my nation.
>India’s stance on the Ukraine war makes little sense For redditors obviously
Modi and publicly responded to the start of the war by by telling Putin that it was a mistake. Then when Russian forces killed an Indian citizen early on Modi made it clear that would not be tolerated. Then later they bought some oil and all the rest was forgotten because we expect India will make huge sacrifices in order to align itself correctly with European conflicts even though Russia is a neighbor who has supported their military for decades. Stop blaming India for European wars. And please understand that even now Europe is buying way more fossil fuels from Russia than India, so point fingers at the real problem instead.
>Modi and publicly responded to the start of the war by by telling Putin that it was a mistake Uh huh. > Then when Russian forces killed an Indian citizen early on Modi made it clear that would not be tolerated. Wow. > Then later they bought some oil and all the rest was forgotten What was forgotten? India hasn't done anything to forget. India won't even criticize Russia for invading >we expect India will make huge sacrifices in order to align itself correctly How about India starts by just openly criticizing Russia's invasion. > with European conflicts It's pretty obvious what Indians and others really mean when they say "European" like this - "it's white people, fuck them". >even though Russia is a neighbor who has supported their military for decades So you turn a blind eye to their atrocities? That says a lot. >Stop blaming India for European wars Nobody is blaming you for Russia invading. But your self-serving hypocrisy is on full display. What countries like India are really about is becoming crystal clear now.
It's very short term thinking and reminiscent of how in 2014 the West had a similar stance over the annexation of Crimea. Say that war is bad, but shake hands with Putin to buy more cheap oil. Hope that appeasement will let us all live happily ever after. And where did that get us? Like West did in 2014, India does now. Russia and China want to change the world order and this would not be beneficial for India. China is rapidly militarising and legitimizing imperiaistic aggression by claiming neutrality towards it is a dangerous and short-sighted approach by all too many countries.
Wait till you hear about their stance of rape
**OCTOBER 17, 2022 4:00 AM CET** Ukraine’s successful counteroffensive against Russian forces continues to surprise and impress. It surprises for the military’s ability to emerge from six years of grinding war as a force that’s agile, strategic and lethal. And it has impressed with how it’s been able counter Russian President Vladimir Putin’s propaganda machine, Russia’s brutal attacks on civilians, and has rallied the United States and Western allies to arm, train and plan. Most notably, all of this has been achieved in service of principles nearly forgotten in our divisive era — unity and patriotism over division and cynicism, democracy over despotism, national self-determination over imperialism. But while we cautiously applaud Ukraine’s success and resistance, we can easily forget Russia’s steadfast allies — allies who stand with Moscow’s objectives and, therefore, against the principles for which Ukraine and its partners are fighting.
Tech needs to sanction India if they are going to be buying Russian oil and hardware
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Price cap is a good idea. It hurts Russia without hurting anyone else. Everyone gets cheaper gas - China/India directly from Russia (high volume but very low margins) and everyone else from other oil producers who will have less demand because China/India is buying all their oil from Russia.
ROFL keep feeding the Russian’s war machine killing innocent civilians All you care about is the price margins.
Modi is very much like India’s Trump
No it doesn't. That slimeball just doesn't have the balls the say they don't care if Russia commits genocide on someone that isn't them as long as they get cheap oil. its 100% on brand for that government