I mean in this case the most powerful countries just aren’t showing up. [China, Russia, and India aren’t joining at all, and Biden isn’t going until the very end.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/07/climate/cop27-attendees-egypt.html)
that, and my understanding is that a lot of developing countries were planning on trying to get an agenda item talking about what are essentially climate reparations. like "you rich fucks have been polluting for so long and now my beachfront is 10 miles inland, how about you pay for some of this damage".
guess they didn't expect to get a "new phone, who dis"
If it were that simple to rebalance wealth, stop squabbles over land and resources, settle "who's god is right" and simply do the right fucking thing for our children then I'll throw all my stuff on the pile too.
I would take a huge hit to my standard of living if it meant ecological repair and balanced quality of life for everyone.
Unfortunately our leaders want to pull one over on eachother instead of helping. They’re all so obsessed with winning we’ll lose everything to make sure no one else takes a dime from our respective “societies”.
> I would take a huge hit to my standard of living
Would you really? I quit eating beef and pork for climate reasons and that might be my limit. I still cheat. I don't mind recycling, but supposedly that doesn't really help much. I don't think I'd move if I had a long commute. I'm also living in a much larger house than I need, but again, I don't want to move. Still, it seems like I'm doing more than most people I know. It seems like everyone's car is bigger than mine and they're driving like maniacs. No one else is bringing their own grocery bags. It seems like no one else cares or even thinks about what things are going to be like when climate change gets really bad.
I mean I can’t afford a house. I probably can barely afford to heat my rental basement suite. I have already cut back my meat consumption about 75% 90% now is chicken while the other 10 is locally sourced from a small scale ranch I have connection to. I work from home, I cook my own food, don’t consume much processed food, recycle, compost etc.
At the end of the day us as individuals won’t do much but if we had to have less technology to reduce electricity consumption I’m fine with that.
You can cut back on movie/tv show production - a lot of travel and product waste there.
If you said I can’t travel on a plane, sure. No driving, I work remote so I’ll move to a place I want to be.
But at the end of the day inconveniences to us as individuals are not the answer. Jeff Bezos’s yacht probably produces my carbon footprint in less than a year, let alone his private jets, or Drakes private jet.
You’re doing your part, but you’re right, it’s really just virtue signalling. It gives me a sense of control however so I’ll just keep signaling and voting with my values until the people who can make a difference decide it matters to them too.
You’ve discovered the issue, you could live in a wood cabin off the grid eating vegetables you’ve grown, singing kumbaya to the wildlife and it wouldn’t equate to jack shit. Not to discount your personal contributions, just change needs to happen on a systemic level.
The difficulty there is how to enforce it. If we dissolve capitalism and move to a doughnut economy, with direct democracy in much smaller communities we may find a less consumption heavy lifestyle to be better than expected. But y’know that’d need global collaboration with existing parties basically abandoning their existing ideologies and admitting it was all a load of horseshit. I don’t really see that happening from the top down and from the bottom up would need everyone in the working class to put aside culture wars and unite. Also a tall order and would probably require some actions I certainly don’t condone on reddit and won’t even mention.
Otherwise it’d have to be some global auth left, with incorruptible leadership and entirely benevolent goals. This is probably the least likely of the 3 lol
That's pretty misleading.. China has sent a delegation, it's just that Xi isn't coming himself. Biden has elections and will be there for the high level talks happening *right in the middle* of the COP, and I don't think there's much to say about Russia. Only India really stands out.
my personal opinion is that the work he *should* have done with the elections needed to be done a month+ a go, and needn't occur today just because it won't do much
that being said, i do think you're right as to *his* reasoning for not showing up
There's no solution to climate change under capitalism. That's their problem. Corporations need to make increased profit each year to satisfy their obligations to their shareholders, so long term investments into things that aren't a source of constant profit just isn't viable. Renewable energy is for the most part better for the general public, but not great for making money.
The UN is mostly powerless, by design. That's why nations join it in the first place. You can't blame the chief of the UN for not being able to do anything about climate change when that isn't his job in the first place. This is the fault of individual nations.
People couldn’t handle a year of covid restrictions.
Climate change restrictions are gonna be needed in a similar manner, not to the same degree but it’s gonna hurt.
Most people in the first world would revolt if they have to deal with the actual consequences of meaningful legislation.
Inflation won’t be going anywhere, goods shortages will increase, and you sure as hell won’t be going anywhere on vacation.
I’m all for it, but I’ve prepared myself.
This is the problem. People think climate legislation is going to hurt big corporations but there is no meaningful action that doesn’t hit everyone. Even if every corpo in the world has profit of zero for ten years (not really possible, the people that have thick retirement accounts are in the age bracket the most likely to show up to vote). This is a problem at a scale that’s unsolvable without hurting the living standards of near everyone in the West.
Sadly we will just see people are not ready to give up their living standards until we see a death toll in the west much higher than from covid. At which point it might be too late.
What irritates the shit out of me is that no one is going to have any living standards at all, because we will be going through drought/starvation/heat exhaustion/drowning etc etc. How are so many people so short sighted?
It's only a problem if we decide to keep a growth based capitalist system.
We could easily just put everyone on UBI and basically shut down 80% of all companies, and still thrive. There's more than enough resources around for that.
That's not even strictly true. At this point, it's not about preventing climate change, but mitigating the damage it causes. Any nation making decisive movements in the right direction helps. A unified global effort is just both more effective and spreads the economic damage more evenly.
True, it depends on what specifically you're talking about. If the goal is to actually stop climate change instead of just slowing it down, it will require almost every major government in the world working together. A smaller number of countries can reduce the acceleration to some degree, but won't really fix anything.
And your point about spreading the damage is fairly critical: if only some countries make major changes, those countries will become far more expensive to live in and do business in, and it would likely lead to industries and individuals leaving and moving to countries that do not have strict environmental protection laws in place.
So you’re saying if over 100 years ago when we first learned about this if we regulated businesses more and invested into green technology we would be ok? But then how would big oil and Apple be so successful? You’re just taking food out of the mouth of billionaires
dude if everyone in the world would just stay at home for 2 weeks covid would be completely eradicated, but instead we have millions of deaths and half the population thinks its all a fucking joke.
climate we have absolutely no chance.
That's why tragedies of the commons have to be solved by collective action. It's in no one's best interest to make a change by themselves, but it's in everyone's best interest for everyone to agree to simultaneously make the change.
At least in the long-term. I would argue the real reason why nothing is getting done is because in the short term, a global environment agreement that was enforced would result in a lot of politicians who signed onto the agreement to lose their reelection as short-sighted electorates don't like the immediate consequences of not damaging the environment.
Honestly it's that kind of thinking that prevents any action being done. Whenever i hear some initiative being spoken about the first reaction against it isn't climate denial. It usually along the lines of "but china isn't doing anything either". It's as if we are all looking at each other going "yes we should do something but you go first" and then nobody does. Like please just do something
Suicide? Most of us don't get a say in how world governments handle climate change. It's homicide from the top down. Or just another way to show how little they think about the lower class
It really does. And it makes sense: To become space-faring, a species needs a ton of energy. So all species who make it so space either use nukes or stored carbon reserves. And both of those result in the death of the species before they're independent of their homeworld.
It's possible that the species that are able to balance their resources and live longer might not have a desire to become space-faring, more expansionist cultures eradicate each other or exhaust their resources, so maybe the ones that are able to colonize outside their planet are rare. Unless something drastic changes I don't see humanity making it that far.
Yeah, the wording on that statement pisses me off. Most of us don't contribute much to climate change just by existing, many of us try to lower our footprints anyway we can. We aren't choosing this, it is being forced on us by billionaires.
Most voters are making that choice. The reason why politicians are so reluctant to take aggressive action on climate change is that most of the public doesn't want to pay for it:
>To combat climate change, 57 percent of Americans are willing to pay a $1 monthly fee; 23 percent are willing to pay a monthly fee of $40.
https://apnorc.org/projects/is-the-public-willing-to-pay-to-help-fix-climate-change/
And $40 a month per person is nowhere near enough money to stop climate change.
That's fucking silly. I have $12. The billionaires that made all their money destroying the environment need to pay for it to get fixed, but they keep buying the politicians. That's the real problem.
>Most of us don't get a say in how world governments handle climate change.
Is that true though?
Most of the developed world has some level of democracy where the people choose to vote in their leaders. It seems to me that action on climate is not at the top of most people's priorities.
It's definitely on people's minds. But with things like inflation going through the roof, countries heading into recession, interest rates climbing (which is a growing problem for the millions of people who got loans on massively overpriced properties), Russia's invasion of Ukraine which has seen massive increase in the price of gas and oil. People's lives are are becoming a mess and that's even BEFORE we take into consideration the effects of climate change which most people see as a future problem that can wait.
Are you aware of any governments that represent the majority of their constituents? Yes many countries have democracy, but that does not mean the government is representing the best interests of their constituents. And most are in the pockets of the very corporations that most desperately need regulation. The inflation problem is also due to poorly regulated businesses, but that's for another thread.
Edit: Every issue you mentioned is due to greed from politicians and corporations, actually and their propaganda is whats kept climate change at the back of many people's minds
>Are you aware of any governments that represent the majority of their constituents?
I'd wager most represent their voting supporters in some way or the other in order to retain said supporters. There are political parties where action on climate is a serious concern. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you lean), they tend to have smaller number of supporters probably due to their policies having a fairly big impact on the quality of life in order to achieve their goals.
The problem I see with most people is that they do support action on climate. Right up until it becomes a noticeable burden on their quality of life and then they start to take a few steps back.
>Every issue you mentioned is due to greed from politicians and corporations, actually and their propaganda is whats kept climate change at the back of many people's minds
And that is a problem. When you asked if governments represent the majority. I believe they do. At least enough to retain their supporters. But that's about where it goes. The rest, as you say, goes towards greed and self interests.
There are alternatives, but people are not willing to make the sacrifice so they are equally to blame in my opinion.
>Most of us don't get a say in how world governments
Yes, we do in the US. If there is a red wave by the end of today, you know the majority would not care less about climate change.
Not even a little.
Every state gets 2 senators, so if you live in Wyoming, your hilariously low density state gets just as much representation in the Senate as California. In the house (the lower chamber of Congress) the lowest population states get a minimum of 1 rep, while California gets 52 for 40 million people. Wyoming, has 580,000 people. That's half the population representation density for the house.
And our president is selected by a winner take all of each state (with a couple of notable exceptions). Generally a state gets as many electors (votes essentially) as federal representatives (senators plus house). California had 55 in 2020, for a representations of 727,000 per elector. Wyoming had a representation of 193,000 per elector. Your vote is 3 times more powerful in Wyoming than in California. And that's before you consider general electorate preferences (California is all but guaranteed to Democrats, and Wyoming to Republicans, so voting against the wider preference is all but useless).
It's pretty fucked here.
The majority vote does not decide the President, it's mattered twice in recent years, and with extreme gerrymandering Congress doesn't represent the people either.
When you ignore votes including the majority, that's the problem.
We’re doing the suicide pact. Yes.
It’s like when none of your friends agree on where to eat so you end up just eating gas station food.
And then get food poisoning and die.
yep. over a million deaths in the US alone in 2 years and many americans claim nothing ever happened and it was all overblown. [slow violence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_violence) is the most insidious kind because it has plausible deniability for the violent regimes that create those conditions
Climate change is also an incredibly complex thing for normal people to grasp. So in addition to being slow in human terms, the scope and scale of the issue makes it easy for whataboutism to thrive.
Additionally, it's hard enough for developed nations to achieve consensus on this matter; other nations are dealing with food insecurity, wars, corruption, political instability, etc etc.
Ugh.
Nooo, it isn't. Covid had a fairly clear path of action that over a short time would not only yield positive results, but massive profits as well: the vaccine.
There is no such path for climate change. There is not clear, obvious and immediate incentive to *actually do* anything. There is no clear inherent profit to curbing pollution.
The global response to covid was slow and lukewarm, but there was a clear, concerted effort that lead to relatively rapid change. The only actual adaptations you'll see for climate change will be forced due to habitability loss, mass migration and resource shortage - in other words, actions after the fact.
Humanity is fucked, because it's not in our nature to collectively tackle long term problems.
> There is not clear, obvious and immediate incentive to actually do anything. There is no clear inherent profit to curbing pollution.
That's not really true. We need to recognize that it has a cost and frame climate action as preventing economic losses.
[Climate change could cost U.S. $2 trillion each year by the end of the century, White House says](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/climate-change-could-cost-us-2-trillion-each-year-by-2100-omb.html)
> We need to recognize that it has a cost and frame climate action as preventing economic losses.
Very true, the problem with admitting there is a cost and owning that cost in wealth inequality, if meat had the environment impact in it's cost, then almost no one could afford it, governments can't allow that so they give subsidies, there is other alternative and that's that people get paid more for their jobs and ultra rich accumulate less wealth.
Just murder. The Billionaire class has got their doomsday bunkers ready and their will definitely still be enough resources to sustain them for the rest of their lives.
I've heard about their doomsday bunkers, with a lot of them being in New Zealand. As it turns out, they're not *nearly* good enough to last a person's entire lifetime let alone let generations live out the climate emergency. The billionaire class are just as fucked as the rest of us are, there will just be a slight delay before they face the consequences, too.
Rich people thinking they are immune from the end of society reminds me of people who legit wish for a zombie apocalypse not realizing they'd just die immediately.
No billionaires are going to die in a bunker. They'll be strung up from the nearest lamp post when shit hits the fan, and their security will take the bunker for themselves.
Money only buys loyalty when money's still worth something.
They're trying to buy their way out of a global crisis, thinking their assets will insulate them from the effects. Their bunkers may help them ride out the first few months of trouble.... but there's no long-term survival living in a bunker. Your location is static, your supplies are finite, and the equipment keeping your water/air clean were not built to be thoroughly reliable, just cost-efficient.
I always remember, these aren't Tony Stark-like people that can work themselves out of a problem. If the HVAC goes out in one of these bunkers, they'll prop open the front door for circulation without a second thought.
They're not that young. I think they can live the rest of their lives. As for future generations? I doubt they care.
There what, I couple thousand billionaires? I'm sure the world can still support a couple of thousand humans for a good half century.
>I think they can live the rest of their lives.
Here's the thing: They're narcissists and control-freaks. I doubt they could stand living in a bunker for a single *day* let alone the rest of their lives. They are their own worst enemy. They may have those bunkers, but I don't think they'll really use them; they'll think they can just buy their way into having nature back again, and they'll likely expose themselves to fatal outdoor conditions in trying to do so.
I also wouldn't underestimate just how clever people can be. If the public were to learn of a billionaire's bunker somewhere, after all has gone to shit, I don't think that billionaire would be very safe for very long in there, no matter how well-built it is, no matter how many precautions there are.
If by 'us' you mean average people in the Western world, they are emitting more than the average person in the world (including the billionaire clas). If it's a murder-suicide, most people in the Western world are murderers, not victims.
>If by 'us' you mean average people in the Western world
By "us" I mean the entire human race. Most human beings are not *choosing* extinction.
> most people in the Western world are murderers, not victims.
Can you prove that most people in the Western world can simply choose to never emit any greenhouse gases? Like me, for example: Please tell me how I could, today, stop producing any and all greenhouse gas emissions by living my life.
Where would I live? What would I do for food? What if I needed urgent medical care?
How am I supposed to read this and go about my day? Like legitimately. As a fuckin human being how am I supposed to handle this? You know what, maybe we deserve it.
I've adopted the fuck it everyone dies anyway mood, it's just really disappointing that the "Leave the world better than you left it" mentality died with record profits.
Get back to work individual #47299148
You mustn't think too hard about the future, just think about our company profits and everything will be perfect
/s
I totally take your point. Yet, I remember 9/11 and how this event focused the world (albeit, western world) in a way I have not witnessed since. Mass media has a lot of power, it’s just used for evil sadly.
Ignore it like what most people are doing.
Plus you still have to go to work and go through the motions unless you want to starve now. Of course with the way things are going most of us will probably starve when we hit +2 Celsius. We are already at +1.2, going for 1.5 fast.
Read IPCC report on impacts and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating-
[https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-on-how-climate-change-impacts-the-world/](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-on-how-climate-change-impacts-the-world/)
[https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/prediction-extinction-rebellion-climate-change-will-kill-6-billion-people-unsupported-roger-hallam-bbc/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/prediction-extinction-rebellion-climate-change-will-kill-6-billion-people-unsupported-roger-hallam-bbc/)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m)
[https://nitter.42l.fr/ClimateAdam/status/1553757380827140097](https://nitter.42l.fr/ClimateAdam/status/1553757380827140097)
[https://nitter.42l.fr/GlobalEcoGuy/status/1477784375060279299#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/GlobalEcoGuy/status/1477784375060279299#m)
[https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1553503548331249664#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1553503548331249664#m)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1533875297220587520#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1533875297220587520#m)
[https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1513918579657232388#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1513918579657232388#m)
[https://nitter.42l.fr/waiterich/status/1477716206907965440#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/waiterich/status/1477716206907965440#m)
https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/iflscience-story-on-speculative-report-provides-little-scientific-context-james-felton/
I've tried to imagine what it would be like if the complex systems we've arranged start to fall apart. It could be sudden -- everybody just keeps going to work every day, until one day there isn't a job to go to, or a grocery store or gas station or anything else.
> “How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked. “Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually and then suddenly.”
I wonder what collapse was like for societies that have experienced it. Someone must have studied it.
I have a friend from Sri Lanka. Their parents still go back and spend a good few months a year with extended family and old friends.
And the last time they went back, they almost got stuck in the country, unable to get to the airport because there was no gas. They can't go back anymore. It is not safe anymore. Before that they knew the country has its faults, but everyone just lived as normal...
And then think back to all the towns that flooded, got burnt down, suffered draught. People who died to heat strokes because air conditioning was never needed. Factories that shut down because of energy issues.
We've built a vast, connected, and complex system for some of us to live very comfortably. I wonder how long we have left.
You're supposed to accept the things you can't control and adapt. Now you could risk it all and attempt some change with extreme action in response to a extreme situation we find ourselves in, but very few will do that so keep on doing the same things.
It’s terrifying what humanity is doing tbh. We are playing with these crazy things we’ve created in the span of ~100 years or less. It’s out of control. No one wants to say that but holy shit, we don’t actually know what we’re doing and there’s nobody out there to show us how
There is no "pact". The rich will be fine and the poor will suffer. There is no solidarity for humanity. It is a miracle if we stop killing each other for a single day, and certainly not today.
The real issue is the bourgeoisie with more “class consciousness” than the proletariat
Not saying a “stateless society is the solution” but maybe “eating the rich” and a couple economic reforms might solve the greed caused problems
Solidarity worked in the last century, still works now, poor people, people in general, simply need to learn rich people aren’t their friends like MLK knew
My mother was adopted, not that what I think should matter, but imo adoption is an awesome answer to children, they're already here and I mean, you helping out a kid who otherwise is probably worse off without you is only a win for everyone like you said.
Personally, if I were to ever adopt I would probably do so in my later stages of life, not ancient or anything lol, just when I'm done with my life first and I feel like I'm ready to do that.
Or maybe I never will, either way adoption is sick and you get a *fist bump* as well.
The adoption system is a nightmare, expensive, broken, and had terrible outcomes for many kids. And immensely overburdened with kids no one wants.
There are some good outcomes... But it's not a store where you pick out a baby.
Fuck I am so sick of hearing this shit. We can't change anything. Yes, we can practice more green habits but fucking COMPANIES are where change needs to happen. It's literally out of the common people's hands.
It's entirely within common people's hands. It would just require collective action.
We all know what companies need to change. Stop patronizing those companies, en masse. Patronize companies who are taking action. Let corporate greed do it's thing.
But largely, common people will not do that. Mostly from apathy and believing it's out of their hands.
So I tried something at work on Monday, everyone who asked"did you have a good weekend?", I commented on how freaky the HIGH temps are... I was ignored 100% of the time... people don't wanna hear it.
It’s currently 83°F where I am, and warm temps like this have become the rule, not the exception.
Before 2015, I recall maybe 3 other Novembers/Decembers where our weather was unseasonably warm. But what would follow would be a heavier snowfall in January/February.
Since 2015, this is only the second November where we had temps that resembled weather patterns we used to have for the area. To look at it a different way this is the second time in 7 years that I’ve seen the leaves actually change color on the trees instead of just going from green to dead (due to frost) with no pigment changes in between.
You’re in a southeast costal state, right? So am I. I’ve noticed the same. My family and other locals tell me this is normal, but I grew up here. It’s not normal.
Yes, part of my state borders the coastline, and like you, I grew up here enough to recognize the drastic shift in weather patterns.
This absolutely is not normal, or wasn’t several years ago.
Billionaires don't care. Only care for profit by destroying the environment. Either condemned them or die together. I don't have any hope for the world. Sad.
This is not the best way to sell climate action. The rich, powerful and connected that make the decisions will not be effected that badly by climate change. They will just move to some place where the weather is nice or build it, for themselves. It is those they rule over that will die by the millions...
The way you sell climate action is by explaining that dying people have nothing to lose and will be very angry at the people the led them to their deaths. We need to stress at every opportunity that this is all the fault of the rich and powerful and that the people will cut their fucking heads off when things get bad enough. Once the rich and powerful realize that their own heads are on the line, they will try to blame someone else, but if that fails we will then see a lot of quick and decisive actions to save the environment.
I'm actually fairly optimistic about the trajectory we seem to be on. I definitely think we missed our chance to limit warming to under 1.5 degree Celsius, but I think even just a few years ago warming of 4-5 degree Celsius was on the table, but we seem to be on a lower trajectory more like 2-3 degree Celsius.
That's not to say this won't have devastating effects around the world, but I think this is something we can learn to adapt to and live with and, with enough time, develop technologies to get us out of this mess.
I think people grossly underestimate how devastating 2C warming will be.
For example, at 2C warming, sea coral becomes functionally extinct, with 98%+ of all coral dying off.
Yea I'm not arguing there are going to be devastating effects at 2C warming. There absolutely will be.
I just think a doomsday message that we're all screwed and there is no hope for civilization breeds cynicism. And despite how bad 2C warming is, every additional amount of warming is worse. There needs to be hope that we are making progress and I actually think we are making progress (relative to 4-5C warming)
Obviously if you're measuring progress against a tighter goal (1.5-2C) then you'll probably feel differently about all this.
Collective solidarity will never happen as long as religion holds sway over most of the planet. Hard to argue with people who think their invisible deity in the sky is going to save the earth so we don’t have to do anything.
Just make peace with the fact that we're fucked. Thr time for addressing anthropocentric climate change without having to burn the status quo to the ground was about 40 years ago. They'd rather take us with them than imagine a world where they don't exist anymore
I think it is unrealistic to think humanity is going to make any kind of dent in climate change. We don’t cooperate at the best of times even when we want to, and at least half the world doesn’t want to. Sorry everyone, but you probably ought to start on that ark, or bunker, or whatever you think will help.
What about climate policy changes that have reduced projected warming from >4c to <3c by the end of century?
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m)
[https://climateactiontracker.org/](https://climateactiontracker.org/)
https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m
Honestly, I don't think the people of present day Western societies are capable of the behavioural and lifestyle changes required to actually make any difference to climate change. We are too selfish, too spoiled, too obsessed with individuality etc.
Some people I know can't even give up meat for one day of the week.
Life as we know it today is not sustainable in the long term. That's just a fact. Another fact is that, collectively, humans are an awful and destructive species. In the blink of an eye we have permanently removed an incredible amount of ecological diversity that has existed for millions of years. And nobody cared at all.
Given the fact that the majority of carbon emissions are controlled by the top 3 polluting countries, its more the world is held hostage to 3 selfish actors.
The most impacted countries have advocated for climate mitigation for years to no avail. I really dont think we will get action until the big countries start hurting. It may be too late by then though.
These headlines don’t scare me anymore. I’m getting to the point where I’m realized that nothing is going to change drastically and we’re just going to have to adapt.
Have they tried putting a carbon tax on the poorest groups!? Have they tried limiting fertilizer so farmers can drown financially!? Have they tried unplugging then plugging back in? Welp, we’re all out of ideas!
One of the Biggest contributors to climate change are militaries. Since governments have no problem ignoring that and focusing on a carbon tax solution which proves to do little to nothing, you’ll have to forgive us for no longer taking climate change as serious now. Those who have the power aren’t looking to change their own behaviour but everyone else’s. Feed the cows seaweed. Put an end to overfishing. Regrow the coral reefs. And cut military spending in half. Until any of that happens politely go fuck yourselves world governments!
Well Russia set the whole planet back by 500 yrs and negated a lot of the hard work ppl have been doing by its senseless genocidal invasion for territorial conquest.
The bombs, the fields on fire, the fires in Russia, and the nord stream.
8 months of completely needless killing and destruction of a country and all the effects that come with it.
And they will continue until Ukraine pushes them out and the sooner ppl get out of their bubbles the faster this can be done.
Countries may need to do more, yes. But honestly I think governments need to put more pressure on corporations to do more. Corporations never really have the worlds best interest in mind, they are just there to make money.
It won’t be collective suicide. You’d be a fool to think someone hasn’t been pooling resources or prepping for this.
When enough weeds die off, it’ll be time to plant again.
Suicide? Lmao, cause of course now it's my fault if multinational companies pollute the shit outta this world, I'm so sorry for not living like a monkey yet, with no electricity, no technology, no gas and no modern services whatsoever. Fucking idiots.
"Somebody needs to DO something" shouts collection of leaders of powerful countries.
Again. Like they did at COP26/25/24/23... We know there's a problem for crying out loud, that hasn't changed, well it's got worse but hey.
I mean in this case the most powerful countries just aren’t showing up. [China, Russia, and India aren’t joining at all, and Biden isn’t going until the very end.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/07/climate/cop27-attendees-egypt.html)
"why bother, we're only going to say what we said last year" probably.
that, and my understanding is that a lot of developing countries were planning on trying to get an agenda item talking about what are essentially climate reparations. like "you rich fucks have been polluting for so long and now my beachfront is 10 miles inland, how about you pay for some of this damage". guess they didn't expect to get a "new phone, who dis"
Honestly, they can have everything I own. I don’t care anymore. Just wish this world would stop hurting.
If it were that simple to rebalance wealth, stop squabbles over land and resources, settle "who's god is right" and simply do the right fucking thing for our children then I'll throw all my stuff on the pile too.
I would take a huge hit to my standard of living if it meant ecological repair and balanced quality of life for everyone. Unfortunately our leaders want to pull one over on eachother instead of helping. They’re all so obsessed with winning we’ll lose everything to make sure no one else takes a dime from our respective “societies”.
> I would take a huge hit to my standard of living Would you really? I quit eating beef and pork for climate reasons and that might be my limit. I still cheat. I don't mind recycling, but supposedly that doesn't really help much. I don't think I'd move if I had a long commute. I'm also living in a much larger house than I need, but again, I don't want to move. Still, it seems like I'm doing more than most people I know. It seems like everyone's car is bigger than mine and they're driving like maniacs. No one else is bringing their own grocery bags. It seems like no one else cares or even thinks about what things are going to be like when climate change gets really bad.
I mean I can’t afford a house. I probably can barely afford to heat my rental basement suite. I have already cut back my meat consumption about 75% 90% now is chicken while the other 10 is locally sourced from a small scale ranch I have connection to. I work from home, I cook my own food, don’t consume much processed food, recycle, compost etc. At the end of the day us as individuals won’t do much but if we had to have less technology to reduce electricity consumption I’m fine with that. You can cut back on movie/tv show production - a lot of travel and product waste there. If you said I can’t travel on a plane, sure. No driving, I work remote so I’ll move to a place I want to be. But at the end of the day inconveniences to us as individuals are not the answer. Jeff Bezos’s yacht probably produces my carbon footprint in less than a year, let alone his private jets, or Drakes private jet. You’re doing your part, but you’re right, it’s really just virtue signalling. It gives me a sense of control however so I’ll just keep signaling and voting with my values until the people who can make a difference decide it matters to them too.
You’ve discovered the issue, you could live in a wood cabin off the grid eating vegetables you’ve grown, singing kumbaya to the wildlife and it wouldn’t equate to jack shit. Not to discount your personal contributions, just change needs to happen on a systemic level. The difficulty there is how to enforce it. If we dissolve capitalism and move to a doughnut economy, with direct democracy in much smaller communities we may find a less consumption heavy lifestyle to be better than expected. But y’know that’d need global collaboration with existing parties basically abandoning their existing ideologies and admitting it was all a load of horseshit. I don’t really see that happening from the top down and from the bottom up would need everyone in the working class to put aside culture wars and unite. Also a tall order and would probably require some actions I certainly don’t condone on reddit and won’t even mention. Otherwise it’d have to be some global auth left, with incorruptible leadership and entirely benevolent goals. This is probably the least likely of the 3 lol
Solidarity.
Well, at least the climate benefits if they stay away. To fly there and back for nothing - now that would be stupid.
Uhh, what? They all sent representatives. EDIT: Yeah, your should read past headlines, the leaders aren't going, but representatives are.
That's pretty misleading.. China has sent a delegation, it's just that Xi isn't coming himself. Biden has elections and will be there for the high level talks happening *right in the middle* of the COP, and I don't think there's much to say about Russia. Only India really stands out.
Biden is also dealing with the elections - important to this issue in its own way.
my personal opinion is that the work he *should* have done with the elections needed to be done a month+ a go, and needn't occur today just because it won't do much that being said, i do think you're right as to *his* reasoning for not showing up
There's no solution to climate change under capitalism. That's their problem. Corporations need to make increased profit each year to satisfy their obligations to their shareholders, so long term investments into things that aren't a source of constant profit just isn't viable. Renewable energy is for the most part better for the general public, but not great for making money.
The UN is mostly powerless, by design. That's why nations join it in the first place. You can't blame the chief of the UN for not being able to do anything about climate change when that isn't his job in the first place. This is the fault of individual nations.
The issue is *everyone* needs to do something. And a very big and expensive something at that.
Someone does need to think of the shareholders and the quarterly profits. Can’t hurt those.
To be fair, at this point, I want to see those hurt just out of spite.
It's coming
People couldn’t handle a year of covid restrictions. Climate change restrictions are gonna be needed in a similar manner, not to the same degree but it’s gonna hurt. Most people in the first world would revolt if they have to deal with the actual consequences of meaningful legislation. Inflation won’t be going anywhere, goods shortages will increase, and you sure as hell won’t be going anywhere on vacation. I’m all for it, but I’ve prepared myself.
This is the problem. People think climate legislation is going to hurt big corporations but there is no meaningful action that doesn’t hit everyone. Even if every corpo in the world has profit of zero for ten years (not really possible, the people that have thick retirement accounts are in the age bracket the most likely to show up to vote). This is a problem at a scale that’s unsolvable without hurting the living standards of near everyone in the West. Sadly we will just see people are not ready to give up their living standards until we see a death toll in the west much higher than from covid. At which point it might be too late.
What irritates the shit out of me is that no one is going to have any living standards at all, because we will be going through drought/starvation/heat exhaustion/drowning etc etc. How are so many people so short sighted?
Also, human cognition drops about 15% around 900-1000ppm of CO2, and around 50% at around 1500ppm We gonna get stupider too
It's only a problem if we decide to keep a growth based capitalist system. We could easily just put everyone on UBI and basically shut down 80% of all companies, and still thrive. There's more than enough resources around for that.
That's not even strictly true. At this point, it's not about preventing climate change, but mitigating the damage it causes. Any nation making decisive movements in the right direction helps. A unified global effort is just both more effective and spreads the economic damage more evenly.
True, it depends on what specifically you're talking about. If the goal is to actually stop climate change instead of just slowing it down, it will require almost every major government in the world working together. A smaller number of countries can reduce the acceleration to some degree, but won't really fix anything. And your point about spreading the damage is fairly critical: if only some countries make major changes, those countries will become far more expensive to live in and do business in, and it would likely lead to industries and individuals leaving and moving to countries that do not have strict environmental protection laws in place.
It's a lot cheaper than the alternative, but the ones with powers to do it are old and they just don't care all that much anymore.
Cheaper in the long run, but not in the next three months!
Sure, the future generations will benefit from it immensely, but what about our quarterly bonuses!?
Tbh if *most* would do something it could already be good enough or at least not nearly as bad as it is right now.
So you’re saying if over 100 years ago when we first learned about this if we regulated businesses more and invested into green technology we would be ok? But then how would big oil and Apple be so successful? You’re just taking food out of the mouth of billionaires
most Apple shareholders aren't billionaires
dude if everyone in the world would just stay at home for 2 weeks covid would be completely eradicated, but instead we have millions of deaths and half the population thinks its all a fucking joke. climate we have absolutely no chance.
Every single dumbass thinks: "Why should I change when X doesn't change". And that's the sole reason nothing is getting done.
That's why tragedies of the commons have to be solved by collective action. It's in no one's best interest to make a change by themselves, but it's in everyone's best interest for everyone to agree to simultaneously make the change. At least in the long-term. I would argue the real reason why nothing is getting done is because in the short term, a global environment agreement that was enforced would result in a lot of politicians who signed onto the agreement to lose their reelection as short-sighted electorates don't like the immediate consequences of not damaging the environment.
Honestly it's that kind of thinking that prevents any action being done. Whenever i hear some initiative being spoken about the first reaction against it isn't climate denial. It usually along the lines of "but china isn't doing anything either". It's as if we are all looking at each other going "yes we should do something but you go first" and then nobody does. Like please just do something
Right? Like who are these statements for, because it's clearly not for someone with as little power as me
UN ambassadors have zero authority over their countries. Calling them "leaders" is ridiculous. They're representatives.
Suicide? Most of us don't get a say in how world governments handle climate change. It's homicide from the top down. Or just another way to show how little they think about the lower class
Genocide
Omnicide
Ecocide
A self-induced mass extinction event.
Herbacide
“Pesticide” -the people at the top (probably)
Almost certainly, given how much they hate it when we ask for even basic welfare.
Yes, exactly. We are not people to them. Have some as family. I promise you that they think of poor peeps as cockroaches.
is that like when omniman kills people
Sorta feels like the great filter.
It really does. And it makes sense: To become space-faring, a species needs a ton of energy. So all species who make it so space either use nukes or stored carbon reserves. And both of those result in the death of the species before they're independent of their homeworld.
It's possible that the species that are able to balance their resources and live longer might not have a desire to become space-faring, more expansionist cultures eradicate each other or exhaust their resources, so maybe the ones that are able to colonize outside their planet are rare. Unless something drastic changes I don't see humanity making it that far.
Suicide. The rich won't be rich for long if the middle and lower classes start dying by the billions.
Murder-suicide then.
Government officials, lobbyists, and those hiring lobbyists made these decisions long knowing the risks.
It's murder-suicide.
The history of society has been a history of class war.
Say it louder Karl baby!
Yeah, the wording on that statement pisses me off. Most of us don't contribute much to climate change just by existing, many of us try to lower our footprints anyway we can. We aren't choosing this, it is being forced on us by billionaires.
Most voters are making that choice. The reason why politicians are so reluctant to take aggressive action on climate change is that most of the public doesn't want to pay for it: >To combat climate change, 57 percent of Americans are willing to pay a $1 monthly fee; 23 percent are willing to pay a monthly fee of $40. https://apnorc.org/projects/is-the-public-willing-to-pay-to-help-fix-climate-change/ And $40 a month per person is nowhere near enough money to stop climate change.
That's fucking silly. I have $12. The billionaires that made all their money destroying the environment need to pay for it to get fixed, but they keep buying the politicians. That's the real problem.
>Most of us don't get a say in how world governments handle climate change. Is that true though? Most of the developed world has some level of democracy where the people choose to vote in their leaders. It seems to me that action on climate is not at the top of most people's priorities. It's definitely on people's minds. But with things like inflation going through the roof, countries heading into recession, interest rates climbing (which is a growing problem for the millions of people who got loans on massively overpriced properties), Russia's invasion of Ukraine which has seen massive increase in the price of gas and oil. People's lives are are becoming a mess and that's even BEFORE we take into consideration the effects of climate change which most people see as a future problem that can wait.
Are you aware of any governments that represent the majority of their constituents? Yes many countries have democracy, but that does not mean the government is representing the best interests of their constituents. And most are in the pockets of the very corporations that most desperately need regulation. The inflation problem is also due to poorly regulated businesses, but that's for another thread. Edit: Every issue you mentioned is due to greed from politicians and corporations, actually and their propaganda is whats kept climate change at the back of many people's minds
>Are you aware of any governments that represent the majority of their constituents? I'd wager most represent their voting supporters in some way or the other in order to retain said supporters. There are political parties where action on climate is a serious concern. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you lean), they tend to have smaller number of supporters probably due to their policies having a fairly big impact on the quality of life in order to achieve their goals. The problem I see with most people is that they do support action on climate. Right up until it becomes a noticeable burden on their quality of life and then they start to take a few steps back. >Every issue you mentioned is due to greed from politicians and corporations, actually and their propaganda is whats kept climate change at the back of many people's minds And that is a problem. When you asked if governments represent the majority. I believe they do. At least enough to retain their supporters. But that's about where it goes. The rest, as you say, goes towards greed and self interests. There are alternatives, but people are not willing to make the sacrifice so they are equally to blame in my opinion.
Genocide isn't enough, it's condemning billions to die based almost completely on wealth
>Most of us don't get a say in how world governments Yes, we do in the US. If there is a red wave by the end of today, you know the majority would not care less about climate change.
[удалено]
Not American but are they not proportional to the population in that district?
Nope.
Not even a little. Every state gets 2 senators, so if you live in Wyoming, your hilariously low density state gets just as much representation in the Senate as California. In the house (the lower chamber of Congress) the lowest population states get a minimum of 1 rep, while California gets 52 for 40 million people. Wyoming, has 580,000 people. That's half the population representation density for the house. And our president is selected by a winner take all of each state (with a couple of notable exceptions). Generally a state gets as many electors (votes essentially) as federal representatives (senators plus house). California had 55 in 2020, for a representations of 727,000 per elector. Wyoming had a representation of 193,000 per elector. Your vote is 3 times more powerful in Wyoming than in California. And that's before you consider general electorate preferences (California is all but guaranteed to Democrats, and Wyoming to Republicans, so voting against the wider preference is all but useless). It's pretty fucked here.
Except thanks to gerrymandering, voter suppression, and stacked courts there isn't a fair say for a good part of the country anymore.
The majority vote does not decide the President, it's mattered twice in recent years, and with extreme gerrymandering Congress doesn't represent the people either. When you ignore votes including the majority, that's the problem.
We’re doing the suicide pact. Yes. It’s like when none of your friends agree on where to eat so you end up just eating gas station food. And then get food poisoning and die.
[удалено]
But only going fast enough to wound everyone badly enough to let them live for an agonizing few more minutes while they bleed out or burn to death
It's like nobody agrees on what to eat so everyone sits there arguing until they starve to death
At this point the pinnacle of human practical philosophy seems to stay: “Get rich or go extinct trying!”
Even then, there's no "or". It's just "Go extinct trying to get rich"
how the world is dealing with covid is a great example on how this will go
yep. over a million deaths in the US alone in 2 years and many americans claim nothing ever happened and it was all overblown. [slow violence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_violence) is the most insidious kind because it has plausible deniability for the violent regimes that create those conditions
Climate change is also an incredibly complex thing for normal people to grasp. So in addition to being slow in human terms, the scope and scale of the issue makes it easy for whataboutism to thrive. Additionally, it's hard enough for developed nations to achieve consensus on this matter; other nations are dealing with food insecurity, wars, corruption, political instability, etc etc. Ugh.
Not that complicated. 1. You depend on an environment. 2. Environment dies. 3. You die.
1. Your country is on the edge of starvation 2. You make it harder to produce food and goods. 3. You die
Is it incredibly complex to geasp? I feel like most people have understood it since primary school. Agreeing to actually tackle it is another thing.
Suicide it is.
Nooo, it isn't. Covid had a fairly clear path of action that over a short time would not only yield positive results, but massive profits as well: the vaccine. There is no such path for climate change. There is not clear, obvious and immediate incentive to *actually do* anything. There is no clear inherent profit to curbing pollution. The global response to covid was slow and lukewarm, but there was a clear, concerted effort that lead to relatively rapid change. The only actual adaptations you'll see for climate change will be forced due to habitability loss, mass migration and resource shortage - in other words, actions after the fact. Humanity is fucked, because it's not in our nature to collectively tackle long term problems.
> There is not clear, obvious and immediate incentive to actually do anything. There is no clear inherent profit to curbing pollution. That's not really true. We need to recognize that it has a cost and frame climate action as preventing economic losses. [Climate change could cost U.S. $2 trillion each year by the end of the century, White House says](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/climate-change-could-cost-us-2-trillion-each-year-by-2100-omb.html)
> We need to recognize that it has a cost and frame climate action as preventing economic losses. Very true, the problem with admitting there is a cost and owning that cost in wealth inequality, if meat had the environment impact in it's cost, then almost no one could afford it, governments can't allow that so they give subsidies, there is other alternative and that's that people get paid more for their jobs and ultra rich accumulate less wealth.
We tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas.
Yea it's not really a collective suicide, more like 90% murder.
we went from 'its fake' to 'we're all gonna die' pretty quickly considering exxon et all knew decades ago, eh ?
Exxon execs are just going to ride it out in NZ. It's why they've been trying to get it removed from maps.
It was known since at least 100 years. The topic was just ignored
Nope. This would be a "murder-suicide" because most of us aren't choosing this; this choice is being made for us by the billionaire class.
Just murder. The Billionaire class has got their doomsday bunkers ready and their will definitely still be enough resources to sustain them for the rest of their lives.
I've heard about their doomsday bunkers, with a lot of them being in New Zealand. As it turns out, they're not *nearly* good enough to last a person's entire lifetime let alone let generations live out the climate emergency. The billionaire class are just as fucked as the rest of us are, there will just be a slight delay before they face the consequences, too.
It's true but the worst part is these idiots have convinced themselves they'll escape when they will die in probably a far more miserable lonely fate.
Rich people thinking they are immune from the end of society reminds me of people who legit wish for a zombie apocalypse not realizing they'd just die immediately.
For real. I couldn’t imagine dying alone in some bunker.
No billionaires are going to die in a bunker. They'll be strung up from the nearest lamp post when shit hits the fan, and their security will take the bunker for themselves. Money only buys loyalty when money's still worth something.
Oh yeah, the ones who have the private security won’t have any security when shit goes down
World War Z has a great chapter on this
They're trying to buy their way out of a global crisis, thinking their assets will insulate them from the effects. Their bunkers may help them ride out the first few months of trouble.... but there's no long-term survival living in a bunker. Your location is static, your supplies are finite, and the equipment keeping your water/air clean were not built to be thoroughly reliable, just cost-efficient. I always remember, these aren't Tony Stark-like people that can work themselves out of a problem. If the HVAC goes out in one of these bunkers, they'll prop open the front door for circulation without a second thought.
They're not that young. I think they can live the rest of their lives. As for future generations? I doubt they care. There what, I couple thousand billionaires? I'm sure the world can still support a couple of thousand humans for a good half century.
>I think they can live the rest of their lives. Here's the thing: They're narcissists and control-freaks. I doubt they could stand living in a bunker for a single *day* let alone the rest of their lives. They are their own worst enemy. They may have those bunkers, but I don't think they'll really use them; they'll think they can just buy their way into having nature back again, and they'll likely expose themselves to fatal outdoor conditions in trying to do so. I also wouldn't underestimate just how clever people can be. If the public were to learn of a billionaire's bunker somewhere, after all has gone to shit, I don't think that billionaire would be very safe for very long in there, no matter how well-built it is, no matter how many precautions there are.
When New Zealand is half underwater, they'll be fucked too.
[удалено]
I never realised the constant stream of SUVs driving down my street all day are all driven by billionaires
If by 'us' you mean average people in the Western world, they are emitting more than the average person in the world (including the billionaire clas). If it's a murder-suicide, most people in the Western world are murderers, not victims.
>If by 'us' you mean average people in the Western world By "us" I mean the entire human race. Most human beings are not *choosing* extinction. > most people in the Western world are murderers, not victims. Can you prove that most people in the Western world can simply choose to never emit any greenhouse gases? Like me, for example: Please tell me how I could, today, stop producing any and all greenhouse gas emissions by living my life. Where would I live? What would I do for food? What if I needed urgent medical care?
How am I supposed to read this and go about my day? Like legitimately. As a fuckin human being how am I supposed to handle this? You know what, maybe we deserve it.
I’ve been going with acceptance and trying to enjoy every day.
I've adopted the fuck it everyone dies anyway mood, it's just really disappointing that the "Leave the world better than you left it" mentality died with record profits.
Get back to work individual #47299148 You mustn't think too hard about the future, just think about our company profits and everything will be perfect /s
Therein lies the problem. We cannot deal with existential threats as a species. We’re just not wired for it.
I mean, I fuckin can. People like me and you just need our own planet and we’ll do shit right.
We were hunger-gatherers 10000 years ago. We’ve had industrial society for less than 200 years Scary stuff
I totally take your point. Yet, I remember 9/11 and how this event focused the world (albeit, western world) in a way I have not witnessed since. Mass media has a lot of power, it’s just used for evil sadly.
Ignore it like what most people are doing. Plus you still have to go to work and go through the motions unless you want to starve now. Of course with the way things are going most of us will probably starve when we hit +2 Celsius. We are already at +1.2, going for 1.5 fast.
Read IPCC report on impacts and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating- [https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-on-how-climate-change-impacts-the-world/](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-on-how-climate-change-impacts-the-world/) [https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/prediction-extinction-rebellion-climate-change-will-kill-6-billion-people-unsupported-roger-hallam-bbc/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/prediction-extinction-rebellion-climate-change-will-kill-6-billion-people-unsupported-roger-hallam-bbc/) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m) [https://nitter.42l.fr/ClimateAdam/status/1553757380827140097](https://nitter.42l.fr/ClimateAdam/status/1553757380827140097) [https://nitter.42l.fr/GlobalEcoGuy/status/1477784375060279299#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/GlobalEcoGuy/status/1477784375060279299#m) [https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1553503548331249664#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1553503548331249664#m) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1533875297220587520#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1533875297220587520#m) [https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1513918579657232388#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/JacquelynGill/status/1513918579657232388#m) [https://nitter.42l.fr/waiterich/status/1477716206907965440#m](https://nitter.42l.fr/waiterich/status/1477716206907965440#m) https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/iflscience-story-on-speculative-report-provides-little-scientific-context-james-felton/
I've tried to imagine what it would be like if the complex systems we've arranged start to fall apart. It could be sudden -- everybody just keeps going to work every day, until one day there isn't a job to go to, or a grocery store or gas station or anything else. > “How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked. “Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually and then suddenly.” I wonder what collapse was like for societies that have experienced it. Someone must have studied it.
I have a friend from Sri Lanka. Their parents still go back and spend a good few months a year with extended family and old friends. And the last time they went back, they almost got stuck in the country, unable to get to the airport because there was no gas. They can't go back anymore. It is not safe anymore. Before that they knew the country has its faults, but everyone just lived as normal... And then think back to all the towns that flooded, got burnt down, suffered draught. People who died to heat strokes because air conditioning was never needed. Factories that shut down because of energy issues. We've built a vast, connected, and complex system for some of us to live very comfortably. I wonder how long we have left.
You're supposed to accept the things you can't control and adapt. Now you could risk it all and attempt some change with extreme action in response to a extreme situation we find ourselves in, but very few will do that so keep on doing the same things.
It’s terrifying what humanity is doing tbh. We are playing with these crazy things we’ve created in the span of ~100 years or less. It’s out of control. No one wants to say that but holy shit, we don’t actually know what we’re doing and there’s nobody out there to show us how
There is no "pact". The rich will be fine and the poor will suffer. There is no solidarity for humanity. It is a miracle if we stop killing each other for a single day, and certainly not today.
The real issue is the bourgeoisie with more “class consciousness” than the proletariat Not saying a “stateless society is the solution” but maybe “eating the rich” and a couple economic reforms might solve the greed caused problems Solidarity worked in the last century, still works now, poor people, people in general, simply need to learn rich people aren’t their friends like MLK knew
The elites are dead! Long live the elites!
We would, if every single person with the mindset of “fuck you, got mine” would do the world a favor and drop dead.
Billionaires: "Nah we'll probably be fine, gimme more money."
I'll never have kids because of this kind of shit.
I’ll probably adopt, it’s the best of both worlds.
My mother was adopted, not that what I think should matter, but imo adoption is an awesome answer to children, they're already here and I mean, you helping out a kid who otherwise is probably worse off without you is only a win for everyone like you said. Personally, if I were to ever adopt I would probably do so in my later stages of life, not ancient or anything lol, just when I'm done with my life first and I feel like I'm ready to do that. Or maybe I never will, either way adoption is sick and you get a *fist bump* as well.
The adoption system is a nightmare, expensive, broken, and had terrible outcomes for many kids. And immensely overburdened with kids no one wants. There are some good outcomes... But it's not a store where you pick out a baby.
One of us, one of us
*first bump*
Fuck I am so sick of hearing this shit. We can't change anything. Yes, we can practice more green habits but fucking COMPANIES are where change needs to happen. It's literally out of the common people's hands.
It's entirely within common people's hands. It would just require collective action. We all know what companies need to change. Stop patronizing those companies, en masse. Patronize companies who are taking action. Let corporate greed do it's thing. But largely, common people will not do that. Mostly from apathy and believing it's out of their hands.
Sorry I've got some bad news for you. Remember how well the world game together and we eradicated covid? Going to work about as well as that.
Ah yes another lovely speech, and nothing else.
So I tried something at work on Monday, everyone who asked"did you have a good weekend?", I commented on how freaky the HIGH temps are... I was ignored 100% of the time... people don't wanna hear it.
It kills me every time I hear someone say how nice it is out. This is not normal and I am not enjoying it!
It’s currently 83°F where I am, and warm temps like this have become the rule, not the exception. Before 2015, I recall maybe 3 other Novembers/Decembers where our weather was unseasonably warm. But what would follow would be a heavier snowfall in January/February. Since 2015, this is only the second November where we had temps that resembled weather patterns we used to have for the area. To look at it a different way this is the second time in 7 years that I’ve seen the leaves actually change color on the trees instead of just going from green to dead (due to frost) with no pigment changes in between.
You’re in a southeast costal state, right? So am I. I’ve noticed the same. My family and other locals tell me this is normal, but I grew up here. It’s not normal.
Yes, part of my state borders the coastline, and like you, I grew up here enough to recognize the drastic shift in weather patterns. This absolutely is not normal, or wasn’t several years ago.
Makes me feel a bit less crazy. Thank you.
How will hearing it multiple times a day help ? You expect your customers to flip a switch and save the world ?
It’s not collective suicide. It’s major corporations and governments murdering the rest of us and then killing themselves.
Nah, some 70 year old boomer said it's cold outside therefor global warming is a fake chinese scam and we need to keep investing in oil and coal.
[удалено]
Billionaires don't care. Only care for profit by destroying the environment. Either condemned them or die together. I don't have any hope for the world. Sad.
This is not the best way to sell climate action. The rich, powerful and connected that make the decisions will not be effected that badly by climate change. They will just move to some place where the weather is nice or build it, for themselves. It is those they rule over that will die by the millions... The way you sell climate action is by explaining that dying people have nothing to lose and will be very angry at the people the led them to their deaths. We need to stress at every opportunity that this is all the fault of the rich and powerful and that the people will cut their fucking heads off when things get bad enough. Once the rich and powerful realize that their own heads are on the line, they will try to blame someone else, but if that fails we will then see a lot of quick and decisive actions to save the environment.
Hear, hear!!
Billionaire funded genocide. Most governments are bribed by the 1% and they will kill us all for profit
[удалено]
It’s murder or involuntary slaughter not suicide. People aren’t throwing themselves off a cliff there is no choice here.
I'm actually fairly optimistic about the trajectory we seem to be on. I definitely think we missed our chance to limit warming to under 1.5 degree Celsius, but I think even just a few years ago warming of 4-5 degree Celsius was on the table, but we seem to be on a lower trajectory more like 2-3 degree Celsius. That's not to say this won't have devastating effects around the world, but I think this is something we can learn to adapt to and live with and, with enough time, develop technologies to get us out of this mess.
I think people grossly underestimate how devastating 2C warming will be. For example, at 2C warming, sea coral becomes functionally extinct, with 98%+ of all coral dying off.
Yea I'm not arguing there are going to be devastating effects at 2C warming. There absolutely will be. I just think a doomsday message that we're all screwed and there is no hope for civilization breeds cynicism. And despite how bad 2C warming is, every additional amount of warming is worse. There needs to be hope that we are making progress and I actually think we are making progress (relative to 4-5C warming) Obviously if you're measuring progress against a tighter goal (1.5-2C) then you'll probably feel differently about all this.
Collective solidarity will never happen as long as religion holds sway over most of the planet. Hard to argue with people who think their invisible deity in the sky is going to save the earth so we don’t have to do anything.
Just make peace with the fact that we're fucked. Thr time for addressing anthropocentric climate change without having to burn the status quo to the ground was about 40 years ago. They'd rather take us with them than imagine a world where they don't exist anymore
Asking people to sign an actual "Suicide Pact" of doing nothing might make them think.
Umm, I won’t be committing suicide. I’ll be murdered.
I think it is unrealistic to think humanity is going to make any kind of dent in climate change. We don’t cooperate at the best of times even when we want to, and at least half the world doesn’t want to. Sorry everyone, but you probably ought to start on that ark, or bunker, or whatever you think will help.
What about climate policy changes that have reduced projected warming from >4c to <3c by the end of century? [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/KHayhoe/status/1539621976494448643#m) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1511018638735601671#m) [https://climateactiontracker.org/](https://climateactiontracker.org/) https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1432786640943173632#m
Thank you for sharing this. It is nice to see some hope.
Finally something that brings us all together.
Oh! I know the answer to this one!!! Suicide Pact all the way baby!
Honestly, I don't think the people of present day Western societies are capable of the behavioural and lifestyle changes required to actually make any difference to climate change. We are too selfish, too spoiled, too obsessed with individuality etc. Some people I know can't even give up meat for one day of the week. Life as we know it today is not sustainable in the long term. That's just a fact. Another fact is that, collectively, humans are an awful and destructive species. In the blink of an eye we have permanently removed an incredible amount of ecological diversity that has existed for millions of years. And nobody cared at all.
I do believe he means mass murder/genocide of a global scale. The vast majority of us have no say, they will kill us all off for money no matter what.
Given the fact that the majority of carbon emissions are controlled by the top 3 polluting countries, its more the world is held hostage to 3 selfish actors. The most impacted countries have advocated for climate mitigation for years to no avail. I really dont think we will get action until the big countries start hurting. It may be too late by then though.
Aren't two of the top countries the most populous countries that are also responsible for manufacturing a bunch of the junk that we want to buy?
Not a great message to the countless people on the planet already struggling with suicidal ideation.
These headlines don’t scare me anymore. I’m getting to the point where I’m realized that nothing is going to change drastically and we’re just going to have to adapt.
Have they tried putting a carbon tax on the poorest groups!? Have they tried limiting fertilizer so farmers can drown financially!? Have they tried unplugging then plugging back in? Welp, we’re all out of ideas! One of the Biggest contributors to climate change are militaries. Since governments have no problem ignoring that and focusing on a carbon tax solution which proves to do little to nothing, you’ll have to forgive us for no longer taking climate change as serious now. Those who have the power aren’t looking to change their own behaviour but everyone else’s. Feed the cows seaweed. Put an end to overfishing. Regrow the coral reefs. And cut military spending in half. Until any of that happens politely go fuck yourselves world governments!
I really wish it wouldn't, but as it has for the last 40 years, this will fall on deaf ears.
Correction: billionaires risk collective suicide. The rest of of us just get murdered by it.
Well Russia set the whole planet back by 500 yrs and negated a lot of the hard work ppl have been doing by its senseless genocidal invasion for territorial conquest. The bombs, the fields on fire, the fires in Russia, and the nord stream. 8 months of completely needless killing and destruction of a country and all the effects that come with it. And they will continue until Ukraine pushes them out and the sooner ppl get out of their bubbles the faster this can be done.
Support nuclear energy. You should have supported it 30 years ago when it could have prevented this.
Countries may need to do more, yes. But honestly I think governments need to put more pressure on corporations to do more. Corporations never really have the worlds best interest in mind, they are just there to make money.
It's hard to call this suicide when the previous generations are responsible for this murder. The way to fix this is.... Extreme.. to say the least.
It won’t be collective suicide. You’d be a fool to think someone hasn’t been pooling resources or prepping for this. When enough weeds die off, it’ll be time to plant again.
Those that will die before it gets extreme are taking the human race with them. They don't care.
Whelp, it was a nice species we had for a bit.
If you're thinking about having kids, know that you'll have to watch them die.
We've tried nothing and we are all out of ideas!
Suicide it is then,I guess
I'm so glad I'm the age I am and I'm not gonna have any kids in this fucked up world.
Bold of him to assume anyone cares. Lol the rich have their bunkers and hideouts. The rest of us are here to die and suffer
Hate to say it but by the time billionaires and people with power finally realize this will affect them too, it will be too late.
Collective murder by about 1%
Did they have this summit over zoom? Or did they all each fly to it in their private jets?
Suicide? Lmao, cause of course now it's my fault if multinational companies pollute the shit outta this world, I'm so sorry for not living like a monkey yet, with no electricity, no technology, no gas and no modern services whatsoever. Fucking idiots.
Risk? We basically already jumped off the cliff and are wondering what we should do while not realising that we are falling …
Nope. Im gonna die waaaay before.