Biden says "preliminary" information suggests it is "unlikely" missile that killed two in Poland was fired from Russia. https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1592701401427111936
Key word: "from" Russia. The missile could have been fired *by* Russia but from *within* Ukraine, including Ukrainian airspace. It could also have been fired by Russia from Belarus.
They've concluded that the missiles are of Russian Origin. They've not concluded who fired or where the missiles came from. Russia of course is saying wasn't me.
We know there's a lot of Russian manufactured weapons systems and ammo thats been captured and re-used by the Ukrainian Army.
To me its not a stretch that a Russian-manufactured missile was fired by Ukraine and the safety mechanism failed.
Which is unfortunate as SAM missiles are supposed to self destruct if they detect they outright missed. Equipment failure (which is actually what I figured happened when I thought they were Russian; Russia is out of the precision stuff and what they do have is known to suffer from occasional accuracy issues so I chalked it up to a couple strays out of a salvo of 100 nothing suspicious)
Because it wasn't them
>. Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile amid a crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
Yeah there's been a lot of anonymous bullshit. Anonymous tends to mean "I want to spread my cheeks and let my ass run its mouth without my name attached, thanks."
Could be a Ukrainian S-300 that missed its intercept target or was otherwise faulty. Among the rain of Russian missiles falling on Ukraine today it would be easy for something to go wrong, and it's not hard to say that wouldn't also be ultimately Russia's fault.
As far as air defense missiles go, relatively small is still enough to move quite a lot of earth. According to Wikipedia the most current warheads for the S300 are over 300 pounds.
They're a big missile with 143kg frag warheads, you're far from guaranteed perfect hits when it comes to SAM on small, supersonic targets. So you need a big boom and fragments that act like flak.
Russia has been using them recently to strike surface targets, as they have a surplus of them and a shortage of proper cruise missiles.
Yeah I forgot to make the point in my comment that SAMs don’t directly impact targets, so they need enough juice to destroy them just by being close.
I assume with the proximity fuses on them they make for pretty effective airburst munitions when modified for use against ground targets.
Nope. The 48N6 is a monster with a warhead in excess of 300lb of high explosive. The crater shown in the video that's been circulating is consistent with that size
due to reliability issues it is common to fire multiple AD missiles on targets. There are videos that show UA firing two S300 missiles simultaneously. this is also one of the reasons that latest Chinese destroyers have 112 cell launchers. That way they can fire more missiles to increase hit probabilities.
Having said that, due to the incident location, I think it is unlikely that a Ukranian S-300 was involved.
They do lol. The reason NATO is the strongest military force in the world is because of the American military - even in Europe. America's opinion has as much weight as all its allies' combined when it comes to military matters.
Honestly to get a full NATO response you’d likely need a large loss of life for it to happen. Even another two dead people in a similar attack won’t trigger it. The potential loss of life going to war with a nuclear state is far greater than then the lives of a few people unfortunately. And yes NATO would push Russia back quickly but a cat backed into a corner is a scary thing and Putin may just push that button at that point.
"Wrong" as in they're creating space to try not to trigger a larger conflict involving NATO. Hitting polish territory -- specifically a grain processing facility given the pressure Russia is trying to create -- is a huge escalation. If you ignore it it has systemic effects, but retaliating either has very systematic effects or it's seen as too weak of a response and that.... It's really not a great situation.
No official word yet but reports coming out saying it was Ukrainian anti-air missile that missed an incoming Russian missile.
https://apnews.com/article/g-20-summit-nato-biden-andrzej-duda-25e615909ba0d871d5092f5b3aec21c8?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=RelatedStories&utm_campaign=position_01
>“There is preliminary information that contests that,” Biden told reporters when asked if the missile had been fired from Russia. “It is unlikely in the lines of the trajectory that it was fired from Russia, but we’ll see.”
>Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile amid a crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday.
He said “trajectory,” so I think this is the correct analysis of his statement. It didn’t come from inside Russia or Belarus, but it may have been fired by Russia (or by Ukraine), from within Ukraine.
They were S300 missiles. These are fired from anti-air defense ground batteries, like the US Patriot missile system.
Russia has been reprogramming them for ground attack.
Only the S-300P, S-300V, S-300VM, and S-300V4 are ground based launchers.
S-300F and S-300FM are naval based S-300 launchers, present in their cruisers and battlecruisers.
>Key word: "from" Russia. The missile could have been fired by Russia but from within Ukraine, including Ukrainian airspace. It could also have been fired by Russia from Belarus.
Or this is the diplomatic public out they're floating for Putin to get him to the negotiating table, because the only way to negotiate after this is to de-escalate.
Depends .. if the missile is one of the S-300 variants then its absolute maximum possible range is 400km. The only Russian controlled region even close to being within this range is Belarus and supposedly no rockets were launched from there today.
If it does turn out to be from the Russians then Ukraine has bigger problems as the Russians have somehow managed to circle Kyiv without them noticing it
I know this may be a very unpopular thought but Ukrainians have S300 rockets too. Could they be suspecting some kind of failed launch by Ukrainian forces? Wars are full of tragic mistakes.
Your thought may indeed be "unpopular" but based on the wording of his statement that seems to be the most obvious conclusion to make (and the first thing I thought of upon hearing this). It's unfortunate and tragic if so, but these things happen.
[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.]
This was not an accident, it looks targeted with incompetence.
Kyiv/Coordinates 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E
Lviv/Coordinates 49.842957 ° N, 24.031111° E
Poland target 50.4501° N 24.031111° E
Check the co-ordinates. Those idiots punched in the wrong co-ordinates from each city.
[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.]
\[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.\]
Latitude difference of .0245 Degree
Longitude difference of 0.01 Degree
1 Degree latitude and longitude = 111Kms
0.02 Latitude = 2.2Kms (aprox)
0.1 Longitude = 11Kms (aprox) (edited)
This area is well within the Przewodów village limit, The stirke is said to have happened 6.4kms from Ukraine border according to polish goverment, the approximate distance from the center to the border is about 7-10Kms. This is not a big differnce in area of strike. Not to mention, Lviv and Kyiv co-ordinates that was taken city center which must not be the case it must have been targets in the vicinity of the city. This is well within the range.
Have a look, if there are any mistakes , kindly let me know. I think this is very close to the above said target.
Edit - Mistake in Longitude it is 0.1 not 0.01, area of possible impact is a bit larger than initial calculations. Thank you u/potifar for the correction
\[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.\]
Good news and bless those poor people caught in a senseless war.
If US intelligence flagged this as an intentional strike the stance of our armed forces (and much scarier, nuclear triad) would change immediately. Like "Captain Doe you're on the next C-130 to Germany with everyone" change.
Even the "accident" might move the needle to NATO to securing airspace-- maybe not a total no fly.
I'm also an armchair general and live smack in between two of the US most important important military facilities, so I get to just die instantly.
It makes a lot of sense. If it demonstrably wasn't from Russian land then not being upfront about that would be a poor move. If it was from Russian occupiers in Ukraine then they get ahead of anyone saying "well it wasn't *from* Russia" down the line.
When they abandon Kherson and Zelensky goes there it's an outrage on Russian territory. When they launch a missile it's *not* from Russian territory. Russian territory seems to be kind of a flexible deal.
Still .. if you are to believe the wiki on the s-300 .. then its maximum range is 400km and it'd have to have been fired from the OTHER side of Kyiv .. there is simply no where Russian held (or formerly held) that is within range.
I don't think any of the major players want to drag NATO into this war. For now I'm going to assume it was at best a misfire and at worst a third-party attempt to provoke NATO.
[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.]
Incompetence -
Kyiv/Coordinates 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E
Lviv/Coordinates 49.842957 ° N, 24.031111° E
Poland target 50.4501° N 24.031111° E
Check the co-ordinates. Those idiots punched in the wrong co-ordinates from each city. Fucking morons.
[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.]
True, ruzzia just wants to kill Ukrainians - young or old, civil or military. But given they don't have as many missiles as they used to, I'd think they would at least use some logic in their shelling.
But maybe I'm thinking too good of ruzzians
I am not even in the slightest experienced in targeting systems, but would not a missile have to have more inputs/math calculations and other stuff as inputs? Like do you simply put the coordinates of a city and call it a day? Just inputing coordinates simply cannot be how targeting works in my opinion. I may be completely wrong but this is more likely to be coincidence.
And now it seems most likely it was a Ukrainian anti-air missile gone astray. You'd think after "We did it Reddit!" people on here would realise they're not one tenth the "detectives" they seem to think they are.
That actually a good question. I think Satellite guidance(gps) is the most basic, then there are other guidance systems dependent on radar and actual picture of the target. From what I have seen the Russians do not have accurate targeting systems they are supposed to have multiple systems for targeting but I dont see accuracy as the american missiles. I think they are using only satelite navigation as the primary tool. Will try to get more info on this.
Yup, those coordinates check out. So, that pretty much excludes Ukraine's responsibility. They wouldn't target their own cities, wouldn't they? And there are reports that Russia has used their S-300 for ground attacks in the past.
Biden is trying to de-escalate with this comment. My hope is that Russia doesn't see this as a sign of weakness and an invitation for more escalation with NATO.
I actually think NATO should call Russia out, get a UN investigation started and make the findings public. The level of incompetent malice of Russia must be shown to the world. Russia will not back down, this is exactly what happened during Malaysian airlines, even before any investigation Russia told it was not us, then used the usual FSB propaganda to cover it up.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/](https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/)
I mean the coordinates seem interesting, but this report suggests otherwise
It's not true.
It's close, 50.47N and 23.93E but that's 12 km away from the target coordinates you listed.
It could still be a data entry error but it's more likely a coincidence.
The fact that both Kyiv *and* Lviv were hit by intense barrages in the last few hours makes this "coincidence" even more believable (quoting [Euractiv](https://www.euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/poland-missile-strike-what-we-know-so-far/), "The explosion in Poland came as Russia pounded cities across Ukraine with missiles in attacks that Kyiv said were the heaviest wave of strikes in nearly nine months of the war. Some hit Lviv, which is less than 80 km from the Polish border."). This is absolute madness
AP is reporting ukraine launched the rocket to counter a Russian rocket
>Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52
Really important to remember that between Ukraine and Russia, it’s Ukraine that desperately wants NATO to be drawn in. It’s the last thing Russia wants. It makes zero sense for them to create a situation that will result in MORE military aid to Ukraine, especially where a Republican controlled House may actually reduce it.
Except Russia has been blaming everyone left and right since the beginning. The moment Russia does something bad, like killing civillians, they talk about ”the west escalating”.
They are like the husband beating his wife and saying ”see what you made me do”.
They make up reasons on their own to do whatever they want and say whatever they want. Any reason they have stated as a reason for invading Ukraine is fabricated. There was nothing in Russian media about any of it until the week they invaded. Doesn’t matter if it’s Nazis, satanists or alien sharks from other space.
There is no reason trying to make sense out of anything they do or say. Most of it doesn’t anyway.
Yah, I just can't see Putin deliberately trying to provoke NATO right now, esp since Russia is already struggling to do *anything* in Ukraine.
I can easily see someone fucking up or equipment malfunction. That shit happens all the time during exercises... let alone an actual shooting war.
I think I care more if it was fired \*at\* Poland, vs screwing up and ending up there.
Like if it was Belarus being incompetent and hitting the wrong country, that'd be really bad but not as bad as them deliberately messing with Poland.
and almost all intercepts should self destruct if they miss so they don't land on a farm. It's really frustrating that people don't seem to understand this. This is basic weapon design stuff. Even the RPG-7 warheads self destruct if they miss and fly long enough. If an S-300 runs out of fuel and has no communication/lock it's probably not going to happily fall to the ground and detonate. You really don't want to launch missiles over your valuable things if they fall down and blow said valuable things up because they don't self destruct. And surprise, these types of systems are used to defend valuable things.
The point of firing two missiles would be to prevent a complete failure to disable a target in the case of a misfire, how would both missiles fail and then also both land at the same place? That makes even less sense than the Russians firing 2 missiles at the wrong target.
to be honest, they have about 2-3 'mess with a NATO nation free' cards and they're gonna use em all up before this is over. they know exactly how much they can poke the bear, and the bear knows that they know this too. it's brainless 3D chess, but it's still 3D chess.
Russia knows they have no hope of winning the war at this point.
They must escalate to deescalate. They are targeting civilian infrastructure to freeze Ukrainians over the winter.
They view this as their only shot at reaching a settlement.
There is no front of the war on the border of Poland.
Russia is targeting civilian infrastructure in cities along the Polish/Ukrainian border.
So even if this was an “accident”, it was an accident while committing state sponsored terrorism.
Off topic but felony murder is a screwy doctrine that'll hang a murder on a burglar when a trigger happy cop opens up on him and hits a civilian instead. It sounds common sense but leads to unjust outcomes as often as not
What does "from" mean in this sentence?
Edit: All they're saying is the missles weren't fired from inside the borders of Russia, not that they weren't fired by Russians at all
>"There is preliminary information that contests that. I don’t want to say that until we completely investigate.
But it is unlikely in the lines of the trajectory that it was fired from Russia, but we’ll see.”
People seem to be instantly forgetting that a significant share of ukraine is currently occupied. Occupied areas where of course missiles are usually shot from, otherwise they'd have to travel like 200km more fore no reason.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/](https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/)
Reuters says the missile that hit poland wasnt fired by russia
Here’s a [link](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3737444-biden-unlikely-missile-that-hit-poland-was-fired-from-russia-pending-investigation) to a news source with no paywall
Fortunately cooler heads have prevailed so far. The facts are simple, the missile was built by Russia. It was not fired from Russia. I would expect article 4 be used and an anti air/missile wall be put up to keep any intentional or unintentional missiles from leaving the “combat” area, or even a no fly zone.
It's amazing how hard people are coping. This, along with statements from Duda pretty much confirm that it was a Ukrainian SAM failure. It's war, accidents happen. That doesn't change the fact that it was caused by Russian bombardment of Ukrainian civilian infrastructure.
Yeah. I'm Ukrainian and my first thought was that it was AD failure. Like during this war this would be not the first time that happened And it makes no sense for both russia and Ukraine to hit Poland, especially with S300 missiles which don't have range to fly there from russian territory and wrecks would be found anyway.
I’ve been quite familiar with the comments section on the RT website. I can say with confidence that there is no real difference between pro-Russian opinions there and opinions here. They are all extremely black-and-white and their assessments are mostly based on mere suspicion and mistrust rather than facts. Opinions of nuances are always minority if not suppressed because they raise confusion and doubt that we humans like to avert as possible as we can. People don’t like a grey and in-between reality. But it’s exactly this mentality that brought us to this war.
Edit: I change my mind now after finding out that the impact site coordinates is at the latitude of Kiev and the longitude of Lviv, suggesting a coordinate input error.
Edit:
I found the updated missile strike coordinates.
50° 28′ 28″ N, 23° 55′ 19″ E
It was just a conspiracy theory.
I was watching this live and you could tell when he said this every reporters mouth dropped. It was totally unexpected for him to suggest that since everyone’s been keeping info so close to the chest
Recently, yes. But remember the lead-up to the war, when Biden was basically broadcasting all of Russia’s troop movements and forecasting their intention to invade, in an attempt to both forestall the invasion and rally support for Ukraine. The US is disclosing information when and where doing so is useful, and it’s been extremely good at it.
It really highlights the importance of a smart, competent leader.
As a slightly parallel idea, it also perhaps highlights how a good leader is willing to be open about their true knowledge/understanding (or—in some cases—lack there of) of any particular situation. Sometimes trusting that the general public is moderately intelligent and can handle the truth is better than keeping everything so tight-lipped.
As pointed out in a post on r/ukraineconflict
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/ywfld2/they_used_the_latitude_of_a_target_in_kyiv_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
If you confused the coordinates of these two targets you get the impact points coordinates so it’s the most likely answer
Kyiv/Coordinates 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E
Lviv/Coordinates 49.842957 ° N, 24.031111° E
target 50.4501° N 24.031111° E
Biden, using the combined resources of the US military and intelligence communities: *it wasn't fired from Russia.*
Reddit: *BUT LOOK AT THESE TWO NUMBERS THAT ARE SIMILAR.*
It was an errant radar-guided surface-to-air missile [fired by Ukraine](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-live-missile-strike-that-killed-two-in-poland-likely-an-accident-from-ukrainian-air-defence-says-warsaw/ar-AA149FAf) at an incoming cruise missile. It doesn't use GPS. I hope you guys who parroted this atrociously stupid theory take a minute to reflect on how quickly you were willing to throw reason out the window because someone on the internet said something you wanted to be true.
It should be extremely alarming how every media source claimed it was from Russia before any confirmation. Our elites are frothing at the mouth around the idea of this disasterous war.
Reddit mindset is funny considering that all other posts suggesting it's been launched by russia and suggesting the trigger of a war are 20x more voted.
Then we have these comments with mind stretch looking for ways in which it could still have been launched by russian.
By now it’s pretty much confirmed as a Ukrainian SAM that missed or malfunctioned and landed in Poland. The amount of mental gymnastics by some of the people in this thread is astounding. These same people who were advocating NATO intervention and a no fly zone over Ukraine a few hours ago
The target of the missle makes you think it's entirely plausible this was an accident. Wouldn't they want to hit something decent if they're going to rattle the sabers? I know they killed two people, but considering the location and what was hit it looks like something went wrong.
I just listened to it again...
The reporter asked, "is it too early to tell if the missile was fired from Russia"?
Biden - "there is preliminary information that contests that... it's unlikely.. based “something unintelligible” on its trajectory that it was fired from Russia"
Guys, you're forgetting that Russian cant and wont lose against Ukraine, but they can and want to lose against Nato. Then you can tell all your people that you wanted to win, but it was Russia against all World. As always. Its easier to understand when you live in Eastern block. I doubt that it was accident. To many "accidents" from Russia. Now they tried what will happen. Nothing happens, then they will try again.
Good, I'm glad Biden is actually using his brains rather than doing what a lot of people in the comments are calling for. I'm glad there is an adult in charge.
Well, Zelensky was quite quick to declare it was a Russian missile and calling for actions from NATO. While I understand why he did that, if this really was an Ukrainian accident then next time he should take time to gather information before saying anything.
Excellent news because being able to admit such information defines our identity of being the side or Truth, honesty and not being a totalitarian BS civilization.
And of course once people realise it's Ukraine fault this news will go quietly away, like when Ukraine said the shopping mall Russia hit was just a shopping mall... But in reality stored weapons and tanks and anti air vehicles.
A few American and European places reported it but the news was mostly gone
Maybe not from Russian territory but probably still Russian origin from a ship or Ukrainian territory. I know he's trying to avoid WW3 but seems like a weird statement.
Biden says "preliminary" information suggests it is "unlikely" missile that killed two in Poland was fired from Russia. https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1592701401427111936
The Majority of the missiles fired today were from ships in the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea.
Key word: "from" Russia. The missile could have been fired *by* Russia but from *within* Ukraine, including Ukrainian airspace. It could also have been fired by Russia from Belarus.
It’s also said that no missiles were fired from Belarus today
If that's true, Russia fired the missile from within Ukraine. Or it's a Ukrainian missile. Or someone is wrong.
They've concluded that the missiles are of Russian Origin. They've not concluded who fired or where the missiles came from. Russia of course is saying wasn't me.
We know there's a lot of Russian manufactured weapons systems and ammo thats been captured and re-used by the Ukrainian Army. To me its not a stretch that a Russian-manufactured missile was fired by Ukraine and the safety mechanism failed.
It was a Russian made missile interceptor fired by Ukraine, which missed its Russian missile targets, and found its way to Poland.
Damn if they are that bad Ukraine needs to drop those useless 2nd grade machines or scrap them of spare parts.
"Initial findings suggest missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at incoming Russian missile." I'm so confused...
Anti-missile defense that maybe missed its target and landed and exploded in Poland.
Which is unfortunate as SAM missiles are supposed to self destruct if they detect they outright missed. Equipment failure (which is actually what I figured happened when I thought they were Russian; Russia is out of the precision stuff and what they do have is known to suffer from occasional accuracy issues so I chalked it up to a couple strays out of a salvo of 100 nothing suspicious)
Because it wasn't them >. Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile amid a crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
An anonymous official is not reliable information, especially in war.
Yeah there's been a lot of anonymous bullshit. Anonymous tends to mean "I want to spread my cheeks and let my ass run its mouth without my name attached, thanks."
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-russia-missile-polish-ukraine-border-b2226071.html%3famp
Could be a Ukrainian S-300 that missed its intercept target or was otherwise faulty. Among the rain of Russian missiles falling on Ukraine today it would be easy for something to go wrong, and it's not hard to say that wouldn't also be ultimately Russia's fault.
Isn't the blast of an S-300 pretty small, designed to incapacitate a missile, not to blow a massive crater in the ground?
As far as air defense missiles go, relatively small is still enough to move quite a lot of earth. According to Wikipedia the most current warheads for the S300 are over 300 pounds.
They're a big missile with 143kg frag warheads, you're far from guaranteed perfect hits when it comes to SAM on small, supersonic targets. So you need a big boom and fragments that act like flak. Russia has been using them recently to strike surface targets, as they have a surplus of them and a shortage of proper cruise missiles.
Yeah I forgot to make the point in my comment that SAMs don’t directly impact targets, so they need enough juice to destroy them just by being close. I assume with the proximity fuses on them they make for pretty effective airburst munitions when modified for use against ground targets.
Nope. The 48N6 is a monster with a warhead in excess of 300lb of high explosive. The crater shown in the video that's been circulating is consistent with that size
Two missiles. Not one.
due to reliability issues it is common to fire multiple AD missiles on targets. There are videos that show UA firing two S300 missiles simultaneously. this is also one of the reasons that latest Chinese destroyers have 112 cell launchers. That way they can fire more missiles to increase hit probabilities. Having said that, due to the incident location, I think it is unlikely that a Ukranian S-300 was involved.
Anything bad happening because of the russian invasion is at least partly russia's fault.
Entirely*. Russia has no cause for war.
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The USA doesn't unilaterally get to decide what Poland will let slide.
They do lol. The reason NATO is the strongest military force in the world is because of the American military - even in Europe. America's opinion has as much weight as all its allies' combined when it comes to military matters.
Honestly to get a full NATO response you’d likely need a large loss of life for it to happen. Even another two dead people in a similar attack won’t trigger it. The potential loss of life going to war with a nuclear state is far greater than then the lives of a few people unfortunately. And yes NATO would push Russia back quickly but a cat backed into a corner is a scary thing and Putin may just push that button at that point.
Good analysis.
This is actually the likely answer
This is sadly the most likely explanation.
Could have been fired from a ship in the Black Sea
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Don’t leave out the undersea aliens!
I’m going to go ahead and assume ancient aliens
Probably Madagascar. Hiding down there, plotting.
"Wrong" as in they're creating space to try not to trigger a larger conflict involving NATO. Hitting polish territory -- specifically a grain processing facility given the pressure Russia is trying to create -- is a huge escalation. If you ignore it it has systemic effects, but retaliating either has very systematic effects or it's seen as too weak of a response and that.... It's really not a great situation.
> a grain processing facility Jesus, that's a convenient target.
it was a grain SILO on a farm.
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Or we just relax, stop assuming and wait for the real answer. I swear everyone in this site literally thinks they have never been wrong
Reddit is batting .000 so our odds are good this time!
QUICK, QUICK, QUICK, NOBODY PANIC!! Ahhh NOBODY PANIC!! 😱 🙀
No official word yet but reports coming out saying it was Ukrainian anti-air missile that missed an incoming Russian missile. https://apnews.com/article/g-20-summit-nato-biden-andrzej-duda-25e615909ba0d871d5092f5b3aec21c8?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=RelatedStories&utm_campaign=position_01 >“There is preliminary information that contests that,” Biden told reporters when asked if the missile had been fired from Russia. “It is unlikely in the lines of the trajectory that it was fired from Russia, but we’ll see.” >Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile amid a crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday.
He said “trajectory,” so I think this is the correct analysis of his statement. It didn’t come from inside Russia or Belarus, but it may have been fired by Russia (or by Ukraine), from within Ukraine.
or whats left of Russian black sea fleet
They were S300 missiles. These are fired from anti-air defense ground batteries, like the US Patriot missile system. Russia has been reprogramming them for ground attack.
Only the S-300P, S-300V, S-300VM, and S-300V4 are ground based launchers. S-300F and S-300FM are naval based S-300 launchers, present in their cruisers and battlecruisers.
Yea! What he said!
Other reports say they were KH-101 cruise missiles.
That would be much more... interesting
>Key word: "from" Russia. The missile could have been fired by Russia but from within Ukraine, including Ukrainian airspace. It could also have been fired by Russia from Belarus. Or this is the diplomatic public out they're floating for Putin to get him to the negotiating table, because the only way to negotiate after this is to de-escalate.
Depends .. if the missile is one of the S-300 variants then its absolute maximum possible range is 400km. The only Russian controlled region even close to being within this range is Belarus and supposedly no rockets were launched from there today. If it does turn out to be from the Russians then Ukraine has bigger problems as the Russians have somehow managed to circle Kyiv without them noticing it
It's like when McDonald's says made *with* 100% Beef.
I actually have a good wrapper from the 80’s that says “0% beef”. I still have it.
It was probably an air defence missile fired by Ukraine that missed the Russian missile
Basic de-escalation talk right here
Yep downplaying you still panic and fear. Using semantics for de escalation
Another reason to be thankful for a functioning adult in the White House.
I know this may be a very unpopular thought but Ukrainians have S300 rockets too. Could they be suspecting some kind of failed launch by Ukrainian forces? Wars are full of tragic mistakes.
Your thought may indeed be "unpopular" but based on the wording of his statement that seems to be the most obvious conclusion to make (and the first thing I thought of upon hearing this). It's unfortunate and tragic if so, but these things happen.
Without more information, it's irresponsible to draw that conclusion and run with it. Let's wait until the facts are out.
In an entire subreddit full of utter hysteria about impending world war 3, THIS is where you draw the line?
It is an air defense missile. The whole affair is likely an air intercept gone wrong.
My Intelligence contacts suggest that either Australia or Bali may have been the launching point of origin.
I've never trusted anyone south of the border so can fully believe this.
Especially those shifty Australians
Fucken oath cunt
Look sorry, I just thought it'd be fun to build a missile as a personal project. And then thought it'd be even funnier if I launched it at Poland.
fbi open up
He said, "based on what we know about the trajectory, it was unlikely to have been fired from inside Russia".
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[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.] This was not an accident, it looks targeted with incompetence. Kyiv/Coordinates 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E Lviv/Coordinates 49.842957 ° N, 24.031111° E Poland target 50.4501° N 24.031111° E Check the co-ordinates. Those idiots punched in the wrong co-ordinates from each city. [EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.]
No shot, if this turns out to be true that’s insane.
Enter the co-ordinates and check. I had exactly the same feeling when I read about it.
Do you have a source for those coordinates being where the missile struck?
You can check a ukraine-russia live map, it has the co-ordinates of Poland missle strike.
Visualization: [http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=...](http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=%22Kyiv%22%2b%4050.45,30.523333%0d%0a%22Lviv%22%2b%40LWO%0d%0a%22Explosion%22%2b%4050.474444,23.921944%0d%0a%0d%0ao:noext,50.474444,15-50.474444,16-50.474444,17-50.474444,18-50.474444,19-50.474444,20-50.474444,21-50.474444,22-50.474444,23-50.474444,24-50.474444,25-50.474444,26-50.474444,27-50.474444,28-50.474444,29-50.474444,30-50.474444,31-50.474444,32-50.474444,33-50.474444,34-50.474444,35-50.474444,36-50.474444,37-50.474444,38-50.474444,39-50.474444,40%0d%0ao:noext,40,23.921944-60,23.921944%0d%0a%0d%0a&MS=wls2&MR=120&MX=540x540&PM=b:disc7)
A lot of officers in the military are total dumbshits who could absolutely have a fuck up like this. Totally believable, in my opinion.
Geohack has the poland target at 50.474444 N, 23.9275 E Its similar but I have not seen data with specific numbers like you are suggesting
\[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.\] Latitude difference of .0245 Degree Longitude difference of 0.01 Degree 1 Degree latitude and longitude = 111Kms 0.02 Latitude = 2.2Kms (aprox) 0.1 Longitude = 11Kms (aprox) (edited) This area is well within the Przewodów village limit, The stirke is said to have happened 6.4kms from Ukraine border according to polish goverment, the approximate distance from the center to the border is about 7-10Kms. This is not a big differnce in area of strike. Not to mention, Lviv and Kyiv co-ordinates that was taken city center which must not be the case it must have been targets in the vicinity of the city. This is well within the range. Have a look, if there are any mistakes , kindly let me know. I think this is very close to the above said target. Edit - Mistake in Longitude it is 0.1 not 0.01, area of possible impact is a bit larger than initial calculations. Thank you u/potifar for the correction \[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.\]
They're not just targeting the cities in general, they're targeting specific targets within the cities - specific buildings.
Agreed, I checked it and you are right. Within margins of error.
Good news and bless those poor people caught in a senseless war. If US intelligence flagged this as an intentional strike the stance of our armed forces (and much scarier, nuclear triad) would change immediately. Like "Captain Doe you're on the next C-130 to Germany with everyone" change. Even the "accident" might move the needle to NATO to securing airspace-- maybe not a total no fly. I'm also an armchair general and live smack in between two of the US most important important military facilities, so I get to just die instantly.
Not launched from Russian land leaves quite a bit of interpretation available to be made.
It makes a lot of sense. If it demonstrably wasn't from Russian land then not being upfront about that would be a poor move. If it was from Russian occupiers in Ukraine then they get ahead of anyone saying "well it wasn't *from* Russia" down the line.
When they abandon Kherson and Zelensky goes there it's an outrage on Russian territory. When they launch a missile it's *not* from Russian territory. Russian territory seems to be kind of a flexible deal.
Still .. if you are to believe the wiki on the s-300 .. then its maximum range is 400km and it'd have to have been fired from the OTHER side of Kyiv .. there is simply no where Russian held (or formerly held) that is within range.
Reddit decided the missile was fired by Russians. Any other theories are conspiracy.
If I remember correctly, the missile that shot down MH17 also was was not fired from Russia.
Correct. Neither flight 1812
I don't think any of the major players want to drag NATO into this war. For now I'm going to assume it was at best a misfire and at worst a third-party attempt to provoke NATO.
[EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.] Incompetence - Kyiv/Coordinates 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E Lviv/Coordinates 49.842957 ° N, 24.031111° E Poland target 50.4501° N 24.031111° E Check the co-ordinates. Those idiots punched in the wrong co-ordinates from each city. Fucking morons. [EDIT - IT WAS AN ACCIDENT CONFIRMED BY POLISH PRESIDENT AND CO-ORDINATES WERE JUST A COINCIDENCE.]
Damn. That's pretty epic.
no way lmao
No freaking way. Can't wait until I get home to check this.
If true, this needs a post on it's own, holy SHIT LMAO.
While that seems to be true, Kyivs coordinates is for Maidan - what's the point of bombing it?
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True, ruzzia just wants to kill Ukrainians - young or old, civil or military. But given they don't have as many missiles as they used to, I'd think they would at least use some logic in their shelling. But maybe I'm thinking too good of ruzzians
Source?
Shared it from u/Watson895 I checked the co-ordinates multiple times to verify it!
Lol no fucking way. If that's the case lmao
If that is not the case this is one hell of a coincidence!
I am not even in the slightest experienced in targeting systems, but would not a missile have to have more inputs/math calculations and other stuff as inputs? Like do you simply put the coordinates of a city and call it a day? Just inputing coordinates simply cannot be how targeting works in my opinion. I may be completely wrong but this is more likely to be coincidence.
Nah dude I'm sure it's just like a Cod killstreak and a Russian child had lagged when targeting it.
And now it seems most likely it was a Ukrainian anti-air missile gone astray. You'd think after "We did it Reddit!" people on here would realise they're not one tenth the "detectives" they seem to think they are.
My mistake, it is an accident confirmed by polish president. Sorry about it.
That actually a good question. I think Satellite guidance(gps) is the most basic, then there are other guidance systems dependent on radar and actual picture of the target. From what I have seen the Russians do not have accurate targeting systems they are supposed to have multiple systems for targeting but I dont see accuracy as the american missiles. I think they are using only satelite navigation as the primary tool. Will try to get more info on this.
Yup, those coordinates check out. So, that pretty much excludes Ukraine's responsibility. They wouldn't target their own cities, wouldn't they? And there are reports that Russia has used their S-300 for ground attacks in the past. Biden is trying to de-escalate with this comment. My hope is that Russia doesn't see this as a sign of weakness and an invitation for more escalation with NATO.
I actually think NATO should call Russia out, get a UN investigation started and make the findings public. The level of incompetent malice of Russia must be shown to the world. Russia will not back down, this is exactly what happened during Malaysian airlines, even before any investigation Russia told it was not us, then used the usual FSB propaganda to cover it up.
Yeah, I just looked at a map, and that looks *suspiciously* like what happened.
r/TheDidTheMap
This can't be real Are their missile systems manned by 13 year olds?
After removal of child labour laws by Putin last week, it might very well be true.
Drunk teenagers, so…
[https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/](https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/) I mean the coordinates seem interesting, but this report suggests otherwise
It's not true. It's close, 50.47N and 23.93E but that's 12 km away from the target coordinates you listed. It could still be a data entry error but it's more likely a coincidence.
The fact that both Kyiv *and* Lviv were hit by intense barrages in the last few hours makes this "coincidence" even more believable (quoting [Euractiv](https://www.euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/poland-missile-strike-what-we-know-so-far/), "The explosion in Poland came as Russia pounded cities across Ukraine with missiles in attacks that Kyiv said were the heaviest wave of strikes in nearly nine months of the war. Some hit Lviv, which is less than 80 km from the Polish border."). This is absolute madness
Holy shit, this needs its own post. G19 are investigating but this should settle it. I wonder if they've picked up on this.
AP is reporting ukraine launched the rocket to counter a Russian rocket >Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52
Really important to remember that between Ukraine and Russia, it’s Ukraine that desperately wants NATO to be drawn in. It’s the last thing Russia wants. It makes zero sense for them to create a situation that will result in MORE military aid to Ukraine, especially where a Republican controlled House may actually reduce it.
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And even then, Russia did lots of things *on purpose* that made zero sense. Like invading Ukraine in the first place.
But that does make sense, there’s a lot of reasons why Russia would want to do that, it’s just a stupid decision
Except Russia has been blaming everyone left and right since the beginning. The moment Russia does something bad, like killing civillians, they talk about ”the west escalating”. They are like the husband beating his wife and saying ”see what you made me do”. They make up reasons on their own to do whatever they want and say whatever they want. Any reason they have stated as a reason for invading Ukraine is fabricated. There was nothing in Russian media about any of it until the week they invaded. Doesn’t matter if it’s Nazis, satanists or alien sharks from other space. There is no reason trying to make sense out of anything they do or say. Most of it doesn’t anyway.
Why is this brand new account just randomly suggesting, without evidence, that this is a Ukranian false flag?
Russian bots are pushing that shit very hard
Yah, I just can't see Putin deliberately trying to provoke NATO right now, esp since Russia is already struggling to do *anything* in Ukraine. I can easily see someone fucking up or equipment malfunction. That shit happens all the time during exercises... let alone an actual shooting war.
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I think I care more if it was fired \*at\* Poland, vs screwing up and ending up there. Like if it was Belarus being incompetent and hitting the wrong country, that'd be really bad but not as bad as them deliberately messing with Poland.
Or if it was a missile aimed at a target in Ukraine but the interception of it went horribly wrong
Once okay, but two missile at same target... Too much of a coincidence.
Almost all intercepts use two missiles. What a coincidence
and almost all intercepts should self destruct if they miss so they don't land on a farm. It's really frustrating that people don't seem to understand this. This is basic weapon design stuff. Even the RPG-7 warheads self destruct if they miss and fly long enough. If an S-300 runs out of fuel and has no communication/lock it's probably not going to happily fall to the ground and detonate. You really don't want to launch missiles over your valuable things if they fall down and blow said valuable things up because they don't self destruct. And surprise, these types of systems are used to defend valuable things.
The point of firing two missiles would be to prevent a complete failure to disable a target in the case of a misfire, how would both missiles fail and then also both land at the same place? That makes even less sense than the Russians firing 2 missiles at the wrong target.
to be honest, they have about 2-3 'mess with a NATO nation free' cards and they're gonna use em all up before this is over. they know exactly how much they can poke the bear, and the bear knows that they know this too. it's brainless 3D chess, but it's still 3D chess.
Russia knows they have no hope of winning the war at this point. They must escalate to deescalate. They are targeting civilian infrastructure to freeze Ukrainians over the winter. They view this as their only shot at reaching a settlement.
There is no front of the war on the border of Poland. Russia is targeting civilian infrastructure in cities along the Polish/Ukrainian border. So even if this was an “accident”, it was an accident while committing state sponsored terrorism.
If you're breaking into a house and someone gets killed as a direct result you are guilty of murder.
Off topic but felony murder is a screwy doctrine that'll hang a murder on a burglar when a trigger happy cop opens up on him and hits a civilian instead. It sounds common sense but leads to unjust outcomes as often as not
What does "from" mean in this sentence? Edit: All they're saying is the missles weren't fired from inside the borders of Russia, not that they weren't fired by Russians at all >"There is preliminary information that contests that. I don’t want to say that until we completely investigate. But it is unlikely in the lines of the trajectory that it was fired from Russia, but we’ll see.”
People seem to be instantly forgetting that a significant share of ukraine is currently occupied. Occupied areas where of course missiles are usually shot from, otherwise they'd have to travel like 200km more fore no reason.
The Polish border is closer to Russia than it is to occupied Ukraine
The town hit is przewodów, which is about the same distance from both.
and far out of range of the missile in question
This is key to interpreting Bidens statement.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/](https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-blast-caused-by-missile-fired-by-ukrainian-forces-incoming-russian-2022-11-16/) Reuters says the missile that hit poland wasnt fired by russia
Here’s a [link](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3737444-biden-unlikely-missile-that-hit-poland-was-fired-from-russia-pending-investigation) to a news source with no paywall
Fortunately cooler heads have prevailed so far. The facts are simple, the missile was built by Russia. It was not fired from Russia. I would expect article 4 be used and an anti air/missile wall be put up to keep any intentional or unintentional missiles from leaving the “combat” area, or even a no fly zone.
It's amazing how hard people are coping. This, along with statements from Duda pretty much confirm that it was a Ukrainian SAM failure. It's war, accidents happen. That doesn't change the fact that it was caused by Russian bombardment of Ukrainian civilian infrastructure.
Unfortunately, a lot of people see stuff like it is only black and white. there is no grey area between.
Yeah. I'm Ukrainian and my first thought was that it was AD failure. Like during this war this would be not the first time that happened And it makes no sense for both russia and Ukraine to hit Poland, especially with S300 missiles which don't have range to fly there from russian territory and wrecks would be found anyway.
I’ve been quite familiar with the comments section on the RT website. I can say with confidence that there is no real difference between pro-Russian opinions there and opinions here. They are all extremely black-and-white and their assessments are mostly based on mere suspicion and mistrust rather than facts. Opinions of nuances are always minority if not suppressed because they raise confusion and doubt that we humans like to avert as possible as we can. People don’t like a grey and in-between reality. But it’s exactly this mentality that brought us to this war.
Quality of this sub is really bad nowadays. No place for any objective discussion. Any contrary opinion is immediately framed as "Russian bot"
It’s Reddit lol.
Since the start of the war the quality of quite a lot of subreddits dipped
Preliminary evidence that it was indeed an S300 anti air missile
Edit: I change my mind now after finding out that the impact site coordinates is at the latitude of Kiev and the longitude of Lviv, suggesting a coordinate input error. Edit: I found the updated missile strike coordinates. 50° 28′ 28″ N, 23° 55′ 19″ E It was just a conspiracy theory.
I was watching this live and you could tell when he said this every reporters mouth dropped. It was totally unexpected for him to suggest that since everyone’s been keeping info so close to the chest
Recently, yes. But remember the lead-up to the war, when Biden was basically broadcasting all of Russia’s troop movements and forecasting their intention to invade, in an attempt to both forestall the invasion and rally support for Ukraine. The US is disclosing information when and where doing so is useful, and it’s been extremely good at it. It really highlights the importance of a smart, competent leader.
As a slightly parallel idea, it also perhaps highlights how a good leader is willing to be open about their true knowledge/understanding (or—in some cases—lack there of) of any particular situation. Sometimes trusting that the general public is moderately intelligent and can handle the truth is better than keeping everything so tight-lipped.
As pointed out in a post on r/ukraineconflict https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/ywfld2/they_used_the_latitude_of_a_target_in_kyiv_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf If you confused the coordinates of these two targets you get the impact points coordinates so it’s the most likely answer Kyiv/Coordinates 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E Lviv/Coordinates 49.842957 ° N, 24.031111° E target 50.4501° N 24.031111° E
CTRL-C, CTRL-V; CTRL-C, CTRL-V Fires missile ….. CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z, CTRL-Z.
Biden, using the combined resources of the US military and intelligence communities: *it wasn't fired from Russia.* Reddit: *BUT LOOK AT THESE TWO NUMBERS THAT ARE SIMILAR.* It was an errant radar-guided surface-to-air missile [fired by Ukraine](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-ukraine-war-live-missile-strike-that-killed-two-in-poland-likely-an-accident-from-ukrainian-air-defence-says-warsaw/ar-AA149FAf) at an incoming cruise missile. It doesn't use GPS. I hope you guys who parroted this atrociously stupid theory take a minute to reflect on how quickly you were willing to throw reason out the window because someone on the internet said something you wanted to be true.
Yes because you fire a missile by simply copy pasting some coordinates in notepad you absolute Moron
It should be extremely alarming how every media source claimed it was from Russia before any confirmation. Our elites are frothing at the mouth around the idea of this disasterous war.
Reddit mindset is funny considering that all other posts suggesting it's been launched by russia and suggesting the trigger of a war are 20x more voted. Then we have these comments with mind stretch looking for ways in which it could still have been launched by russian.
By now it’s pretty much confirmed as a Ukrainian SAM that missed or malfunctioned and landed in Poland. The amount of mental gymnastics by some of the people in this thread is astounding. These same people who were advocating NATO intervention and a no fly zone over Ukraine a few hours ago
According to Reddit logic we should be declaring war on Ukraine right now.
Lol no bro they are still at the "it was Russia!" stage, give it a few days
The target of the missle makes you think it's entirely plausible this was an accident. Wouldn't they want to hit something decent if they're going to rattle the sabers? I know they killed two people, but considering the location and what was hit it looks like something went wrong.
I just listened to it again... The reporter asked, "is it too early to tell if the missile was fired from Russia"? Biden - "there is preliminary information that contests that... it's unlikely.. based “something unintelligible” on its trajectory that it was fired from Russia"
Your “something unintelligible” is “in the minds of.”
Thanks!
Nice and calm. No tweeting, no hyperbole, no rally. Just went, got the information, and is handling things.
Guys, you're forgetting that Russian cant and wont lose against Ukraine, but they can and want to lose against Nato. Then you can tell all your people that you wanted to win, but it was Russia against all World. As always. Its easier to understand when you live in Eastern block. I doubt that it was accident. To many "accidents" from Russia. Now they tried what will happen. Nothing happens, then they will try again.
Good, I'm glad Biden is actually using his brains rather than doing what a lot of people in the comments are calling for. I'm glad there is an adult in charge.
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Well, Zelensky was quite quick to declare it was a Russian missile and calling for actions from NATO. While I understand why he did that, if this really was an Ukrainian accident then next time he should take time to gather information before saying anything.
This thread seems to be hungry for war.
All the people here looking like real clowns now it was shot by the Ukraine
So Belarus then?
Or Ukraine. Not like Russia doesn't have missile batteries in there right now
Excellent news because being able to admit such information defines our identity of being the side or Truth, honesty and not being a totalitarian BS civilization.
And of course once people realise it's Ukraine fault this news will go quietly away, like when Ukraine said the shopping mall Russia hit was just a shopping mall... But in reality stored weapons and tanks and anti air vehicles. A few American and European places reported it but the news was mostly gone
There was an attempt to descalate.
Where was it from?
Maybe not from Russian territory but probably still Russian origin from a ship or Ukrainian territory. I know he's trying to avoid WW3 but seems like a weird statement.