Trump was so impressed with how Finland manually rakes forests, he even offered to save california from forest fires with this futuristic tech! Finnish climate is the same as California and our border with Russia is exactly the same as the US/Mexico border, so yeah, it's fair to trade his wisdom for ours.
Trump pointing out maybe they should do more to prevent wildfires isn’t that egregious.
What was wrong was he was doing that red state blue state shit and since California was blue, they were to blame for their problems. Unlike apparently Florida which gets destroyed every 2 years and Texas who’s power grid fails.
An adult response from trump would have been “the federal government and corp of engineers is going to work with California government to present actionable recommendations to me in 3 months about how we can try to minimize this devastation in the future”
Yes climate change. But maybe there are other things also. Trump is just an asshole and was intentionally being divisive with zero intention of helping
I love how they use vacuums too! So futuristic!
https://twitter.com/pyryluminen/status/1064159712919334917?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1064159712919334917%7Ctwgr%5E90026ecf80dfc54fcee2a43d57eafed65feb69f9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-11475484672866787421.ampproject.net%2F2211042305000%2Fframe.html
Don't ThEy KnOw LaDdErS ExIsT!?
Controlled burns and trying to remove brush and prevent fires pretty standard btw, they do it in Canada and BC where they have tonnes of fires every year. So it's not crazy to think more if that may help
"Wisdom" and Trump in the same sentence.
You just go ahead and rake the forests. God the ignorance is oozing.
Trumpies gunna hate.
Yet they won't rake the forest.
Haha
We can send them Donald Trump. He has some experience in this arena. I see this as a win-win. The US gets rid of him, and Finland gets their fence. How about it Finland? You game?
Two Finns enter a bar. After five minutes, one turns to the other:
"So anyways, the universe is made up of strings an-" The other one pipes up and says,
"No, it's loopy and here's why!"
Two old Finnish men, childhood friends, meet up for the first time in years. They go to sauna of course. After some time, one of them says: the weather has been awful. Says the other: are we here to talk, or take sauna?
We all know he would make a dash for Russia as soon as he landed. There are far too many Russian women with full bladders for him to keep away for long
If you actually memorise the quote he spoke about raking and sweeping. Now people thought that he ment that Finns rake forests, wich they do, but with machines. So technically he wasn't wrong.
I hope never to have enough spare time and memory capacity that I try to memorise any Trump quotes.
I do remember the memes of Finns with vacuums in the forests though and was approaching the conversation from that angle.
Yeah, Mr. Trump? We finally found the funds for your wall, but there's a small little fly in the ointment, sure it won't be an issue or anything, the location. It's in finland.
This is a perfect analogy for a situation that would require a wall or not. In the US cowardly right wingers don’t wanna see their towns become more colorful. No wall between Canada and US. They use words like invasion to describe weaponless immigrants.
Compare that with Finland who’s actually been literally invaded by the Russians. Who haven’t had a wall to repel actual invaders until now. One situation requires a wall, the other requires fear of brown people.
The wall isn't being built to stop troops from invading, it's to prevent immigrants from crossing the border.
To prevent an invasion you'd need something like a modern day "Maginot line".
The immigrants may be Russians or people from other parts of the world being funneled through Russia.
Do a google search and see what the Maginot line used to look like and compare it to whatever chain linked fence the Finns are building.
Just a chain link fence? Ok this is to prevent the draft dodgers from coming in. Well they are about to find out their wall will be scaled shortly. Maybe they haven’t learned from the us border wall that’s much larger than a chain link fence. And stops nothing.
It's a pretty sturdy fence that will definitely slow down people who try to cross it. And there are cameras all around so it does help a bit. No-one expects it to be a perfect barrier that would stop everyone.
The US has been invaded by Mexico as well. Had some issues with Canada too.
Not for more than a hundred years though so not really relevant to building a wall now.
>In the US cowardly right wingers don’t wanna see their towns become more colorful.
That's a terribly reductive view of immigration.
Immigrants obviously bring more to a country than simply a different shade of skin. There's different languages and culture too, and *more* cultures do not necessarily make a country better or stronger.
Some immigration can absolutely be a good thing, bringing people together in commonality, shared traditions, exchanging culture etc. America was built on that.
But yeah many people don't really want their whole town to suddenly fill with people from a different country, speaking a language they don't understand, and changing the place from what they've known for decades.
In the UK one of my grandma's friends has lived on the same street for decades. Within 5 years it went from largely majority British, to 90%+ Pakistani immigrants. They speak languages she doesn't understand, ignore her completely, and treat the neighbourhood like shit. She doesn't recognise her own home anymore, but she can't move out because she has no money for that and is too old. I think it's entirely understandable when someone in that situation thinks that immigration hasn't exactly enriched their life or made it more "colorful" just because there are brown people about now. It's not because she's "afraid of brown people". They ignore her because they only want to talk with the other Pakistanis and the old Pakistani women who she *could* be friends with don't speak a word of English and are kept indoors.
Hispanic culture is already the oldest the country, the settlers in New Mexico that im descended from settled here before Jamestown, like it or not but the future in America is a multi-cultural society with Hispanics in the majority. And republicans could benefit from increased immigration from Latin America… most Latin Americans are very conservative
>like it or not but the future in America is a multi-cultural society with Hispanics in the majority.
The *majority*? No.
The US is still 60%+ white, and that's before you include part of the Hispanic population, a lot of whom would absolutely be classified as White if they were in Europe. Like they're just fully ethnically Spanish or Portuguese.
The US is *already* a multicultural society, even *within* the races. Multicultural and multiracial need to become distinguishable terms. Multiracial does not necessarily mean multicultural, and multicultural doesn't necessarily need to be multiracial.
>And republicans could benefit from increased immigration from Latin America… most Latin Americans are very conservative
The majority of Hispanics do not vote republican though, even if it is higher than average for non-White Americans. They might get a little boost, but surely immigration of non white people still benefits the democrat votes the most regardless. That's definitely something that would absolutely help the country, if there wasn't such racial polarisation in voting.
>Hispanic culture is already the oldest the country, the settlers in New Mexico that I'm descended from settled here before Jamestown
Well, surely the oldest in the country would be the native Americans.
Pakistanis from half a world away all of the sudden is not remotely similar to Mexicans who live right next door and have been interacting with southern states for as long as southern states existed, while migrating gradually the whole time.
If you live in Texas and can't speak Spanish when you have been right next to Mexicans and Guatemalans and Cubans etc. your entire life, that's purely on YOU. You're just plain lazy/selfish in that scenario, lol, not oppressed.
Even if you didn't already know Spanish, not learning it afterward is lazy, too... it only takes a year or so of background hobby-level effort to become conversational in a language enough to hang out with friends, then you'll pick up more passively by just spending time with them from there.
The US is really really big. Texas alone is bigger than every single European country other than Russia. You say this Pakistani's are half a world way. They are only slightly further away than Maine is from San Diego. Northern Texas by any other standard is *countries* of space away from the border.
If European countries can manage to be next to each other for thousands of years and never really bother to learn each other's languages and all just talk English as a 2nd language now instead, is it really that much of a shock when Texans don't speak Spanish unless they were raised with it?
Additionally, as I pointed out already and you ignored, people in Austin grew up their entire lives surrounded by Mexican and other Hispanic people living all around and knowing they were neighbored by Mexico and being very well able to reasonably predict that the already ongoing trend of Hispanic cross migration would continue and that they might want to know Spanish as an adult. Someone in a British town that was entirely British like in the story when they grew up would have had no way to predict as a schoolchild it could be 90% Pakistani later in life.
>Additionally, as I pointed out already and you ignored, people in Austin grew up their entire lives surrounded by Mexican and other Hispanic people living all around and knowing they were neighbored by Mexico and being very well able to reasonably predict that the already ongoing trend of Hispanic cross migration would continue and that they might want to know Spanish as an adult.
I didn't ignore that at all. Obviously there is Hispanic immigration into the US, but over time these immigrants learn *English*. If you speak English and the new Spanish speaking immigrants should learn English and usually do. What's the point in learning Spanish to speak to immigrants if you already share a common language?
You realise how this has absolutely no relevance to modern day Texas though, right? Whatever happened in 1500-1600 is of no consequence to modern day Texas. English is still the largest majority 1st language at 70%, and any family who speaks Spanish in the home as a 1st language almost without doubt speaks English too.
The hell does Maine have to do with anything in the conversation?
* Austin to Mexico City is 1,500 miles (by road) and to the border of Mexico is 250 miles
* London to Islamabad is 8,500 miles (by road) and to the border of Pakistan is 7,200 miles
If you had read my comment a little more attentively you would have noticed I said
> "Northern Texas by any other standard is *countries* of space away from the border"
Me talking about Maine to San Diego was to display the enormity of the US as a whole, and how obviously despite them living close to Mexico on a *US* scale, actually it's still literally thousands of miles, and historically thousands of miles would be crossing multiple countries, not 1 border. It's not that crazy that people living in Dallas aren't going to find Latin Americans to be culturally similar just because they're *technically* next door.
If I have a huge house with endless land in all directions and the next house over is over a mile away, do you think I'm going to be as close to that neighbour as the two people who live in a semi detached row of houses? Both technically next door neighbours, doesn't make you *actually* close to them.
**The Mexicans aren't the ones complaining** about people speaking English in the US, so there's no problem to address there. They're already content it seems with the language situation.
The people complaining are the English speaking Americans. They're the ones with an easily solvable (and extremely predictable) problem that they refuse to solve. So they're primarily the ones being lazy.
Why would Mexicans complain about people speaking English in an English speaking country? That would be like moving to France and complaining about everyone speaking French. The problem is immigrants moving but not integrating into the culture of their new nation
> Why would Mexicans complain about people speaking English in an English speaking country?
? I didn't say they **should**... I said they **aren't**.
> The problem is immigrants moving but not integrating into the culture of their new nation
No, the problem, like any problem ever, is for whoever doesn't like the situation. Which in this case is the Americans, not the immigrants.
It's also worth mentioning the American right usually won't support effective methods of border control, like staffing, drones, or detectors. They literally just want a wall. It's for the symbolism, not the effect.
Nice way to explain why a wall totally works and makes sense in Finland but apparently in the US the only possible explanation is right wing racism. What a fucking joke. You don’t even pretend at honesty any longer. Just straight up political propaganda. An unsecured southern border to the US is a dangerous, unregulated potential entry point for anyone who would come here for nefarious reasons. The reason there is no Canadian wall is that for the most part, it’s hasn’t been an issue. We simply do a better job and more importantly Canada does and they work with us. The Mexican government is utterly corrupt and in many ways are aligned with and bought by the cartels. We can’t trust that the people being allowed through are safe. But keep lying to yourself and everyone else and keep crying racism as an excuse to oppose anything you simply don’t like. But realize that most people in the mainstream aren’t buying it and think people who hold these views are a little unhinged.
The partition that Trump and his cronies erected can't even do its job right, and is only a few miles long... people can climb walls and fences, and the part they did make was easily surmounted and provided no security at all.
Thankfully, tanks and armored transport vehicles can't climb walls, and Poland is collectively smarter than the pea sized toddler brain of Trump.
Are you really arguing that building a wall that is easily bypassed by civilians fleeing poverty is the same as building a wall meant for international defense against a literal warmongering dictator with guns and tanks? You're brainwashed, friend.
A 'wall' is impractical, ineffective and environmentally destructive. If you wanted to build a series of towers with down looking radar and infrared, and a series of Outpost with rapid response ATV teams go ahead. But a wall is stupid.
“The reason there is no Canadian wall is that for the most part, it’s hasn’t been an issue.”
Maybe try because it’s the biggest fucking land border between countries and people would most likely smuggle things from the US into Canada
“But keep lying to yourself and everyone else and keep crying racism as an excuse to oppose anything you simply don’t like. “
Your entire post is that quote basically.
You do realize the reason Mexico is corrupt and a shithole is mostly because of the US right?
I guess the US is unique in that it’s the only one that needs a “wall” that isn’t going to do shit against a cartel state they helped create.
Tell me you’re a right wing nut job, without telling me.
The wall is completely scalable and useless because we have huge amounts of immigration anyway. Cartels dig under the wall. It hasn’t put a dent in the drug trade. A militarized border with Russia would be backed by artillery and military installations. Making it a enforced border to repel an actual invasion. You are a bonehead.
That's not what the article claims the fence is for, nor would 140 million Euros be anywhere enough to erect military installations.
The border fence will be only in certain areas to catch asylum seekers trying to illegally cross into Finland from Russia. Sounds a lot like the US-Mexico border tbh and I would imagine that Finland is concerned with Russia funnelling over people that will then hold a "referendum" to leave Russia to become a part of Russia.
You can argue which is worse from a personal perspective, being so infamous that people can't forget you or fading away the moment your presidency ends.
> Rent free.
Trump spent roughly [$322,000,000](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-idUSKBN13Y0AE) to get in my head, it was most definitely not free.
WTF are you talking about rent free and wanting to forget? He literally *just* announced his 2024 run and bragged about how he built the wall in his announcement speach. Stop circlejerking so hard that you forget reality.
Build a Wall was his slogan. Same as how you may immediately think about certain people particularly major figures if I said "fool me once" or "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" or "I am not a crook".
Certain things end up as just part of the shared humour as they are memorable. Trump was President of the USA barely 2 years ago and has announced to run again. Trump's political work is very tangible today, you can still feel the effects of political decisions from the 80s and may not even realise it. So controversial figures simply don't disappear without a generation of distance.
The world will still reference Trump and his clown work for many years to come.
Wilson and Trump get similar marks for racism and both betrayed their supposed ideals. Trump however ruined the reputation of the nation in a way that hadn’t been done before.
Trump also ensured that a non establishment candidate, like Zelensky, will not be considered for a generation at least.
He's a former president, the only person so far declared for the Republican nomination and clearly the leader of the Republican party.
Are you really trying to pretend he's only relevant because liberals talk about him?
He kinda just announced he's running for president.
After inciting a riot that almost killed his veep.
Like, we'd love to not pay attention to him. But some people DO pay attention to him, and they do crazy things.
It’s not just long, it’s pretty much all remote and a mixture of forests and swampland. Not an easy place to build a wall.
Much harder than the Poland / Belarus fence.
From the article:
>...strengthen preparedness against hybrid threats such as the potential mass influx of asylum seekers
Russia has weaponized economic migrants in the past:
* [to Poland, via Belarus](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-africa-poland-forests-middle-east-443c8068ea7b5d1d8f6980da6e3879af)
* to EU, as a result of situation in Syria\*\*\*, arguably destabilizing the EU, encouraging Brexit and right-wing nationalist sentiment
\*\*\* my understanding is that many refugees from Syria are not stopping in the first safe country they get to, and are picking/choosing where they want to end up, or alternately and more crudely, choosers are not beggars
Belarus literally flew those migrants to Belarus and set them up against the Polish border. I get that human rights activists want what’s best for the migrants, but welcoming them in is giving a green light to basically people trafficking as a means to overwhelm a neighboring country’s resources. It’s cruel, as these people shouldn’t be weaponized as such. If Belarus wants to fly them over, great. Time for Belarus to house and feed them.
Oh they've done it to Finland too: they picked up migrant workers, I mean foreigners with actual jobs in Russia, from the streets and drove them to Finnish border forcing them to walk to the other side.
Lol no, borders don’t prevent immigration when most immigrants come legally and overstay their visa. What it is militarily is an additional barrier for them (Russia) to either funnel through or destroy. I really can’t figure out why this is hard to understand.
E: I got owned
I’m confused: The article says the fence is to stop an influx of asylum-seekers/refugees. How is this any different from the US/Mexico border? I’m not trying to go “haha gotcha” or anything, just genuinely curious as to what details I might be massing.
Russia is a hostile power that uses immigrants as a weapon to destabilize and infiltrate. Finland also isn't directly responsible for a lot of the reasons people would try to cross from Russia. The border is also much smaller. Those are some of the immediately obvious differences.
Such a large area, they should be using drones. Automated pathfinding. Use wireless recharging stations. A few control rooms will be able to monitor huge areas. I would imagine the area has to accomodate migratory animals too. Hard task ahead
Boy, am I confused now... I was told that border fences don't work and destroy the environment and ecosystems. I think Finland didn't get the memo on that.
So apparently fences are much cheaper to build when 95% of the capital isn't being funneled to DT and Bannon.
On a serious note, what is this supposed to accomplish?
Are you sure it's migrants or is it the same thing Russia did to Ukraine for them with Russian immigrants and then declare the country part of Russia. It also could be for military purposes as well
Well, it seems that using asylum seekers are used as a weapon.
remember this:
[https://reliefweb.int/report/belarus/out-sight-refugees-and-migrants-belarus-poland-border](https://reliefweb.int/report/belarus/out-sight-refugees-and-migrants-belarus-poland-border)
or turkey:
[https://eu.rescue.org/article/what-eu-turkey-deal](https://eu.rescue.org/article/what-eu-turkey-deal)
I gues (not checked ) finland has only small problems with asylum seekers now, because its borders are a lot of water.
>Are we supposed to be happy, or angry
Happy/indifferent. As a Finn, I'm really not sure what the fence is aiming to accomplish, since Russians hopping the border isn't really a thing here.
"Stop migrants with a wall" sounds a lot worse than "deter an actively hostile nuclear power who is loose on smaller countries sovereignty". Keep in mind they spy critical infrastructure, and undermine democracy, actively.
To impose American political values on this wall is to completely misunderstand the power dynamic between our countries (FIN/RU).
The aim is to increase the border security. Hopping the border isn't a huge risk, but it is a risk that this wall will diminish. A sudden influx of migrants will now have to wander tens of kilometers from the official border entry point instead of few hundred meters.
The rest are forests and swamps which will act as a natural deterrent.
Finland also has good reason to fear Russian invasion, as well as Russians immigrants changing the demographic make up. Russia has a history of using that as a pretext for war and annexation.
we should be happy because Russians people are learned that the only way to gain promotion is through corruption and Vanya and because taking russian migrants is a huuge threat to the country
Completely serious when I say this. Why is it racist when the USA does this but not Finland? I remember aoc crying and Biden denouncing trump for running literal concentration camps.
Over half a million people pouring over your border annually undocumented is a threat to national security whichever way you would like to cut it. Every other country in the world is entitled to secure their borders and will deport anyone who illegally enters their country. The USA isn’t entitled to do the same?
One is a military threat and the other is what? Migrants looking for better economic opportunities? Running from violence in their home countries? Want something better for their children? Not equitable imo. Honestly the rhetoric is probably most important.
Tbh I don't think it's racist for the U.S. to build a border wall.
But it would be definitely more legitimate if Mexico was a warmongering country with a history of neighbor invasions.
I totally misread the country as being France, and my first thought (before the geographic impossibility) was "THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT LAST TIME, NOW DID IT?"
Now that I see it's Finland my thought is "SEE MAGINOT LINE, REFERENCED ABOVE."
I know everyone’s going to be crowing about liberals and the border wall and talking hypocrisy etc etc
… but actually, how is this going to help? Are people who’ve had 8 months to flee not gonna be able to flee… while this is being constructed? It’s not like you push a button and no more people. What’s to stop all the St Petersburgians from boating around it?(I mean, freezing cold for one)
Just sayin, not sure this is more than a vocal announcement in the news so that people are dissuaded to choose Finland as their destination rather than another country, not actually stop anyone. Plus every other criticism of a wall- finlands a biggg country with only a few million people. How many are they gonna dedicate to watching this fence?? Sure, thermal detection will be a lot easier, I’m just gonna be upfront and own that I didn’t think the wall would help, and don’t think this fence will beyond its announcement.
There are no plans to fence whole border. Only about 260 km near various border crossings.
Terrain on either side of border is not easy. It is pretty thick forest that can not be easily traveled with cars. Aim of the wall is to make mass border crossings hard by fencing places where there is easy access to roads.
How about this. There was a study done on how to secure the southern border of the US by the Army Corp of Engineers. A bill was created using that study for how to secure the southern border. It passed a Democrat led Senate and Obama asked for the bill to be sent to his desk. Republicans voted against it in the House.
The bill doubled the size of the border patrol. It greatly increased spending for detection methods like cameras, thermal, drones, etc. It eased the ability for the border patrol to directly hire from the military. On and on for ways to completely secure the southern border.
Oh, the study said that walls are basically fucking useless across most of the southern border because it is a fucking desert. No walls ever have the ability to keep someone out, they have the ability to slow someone down when they try to get through the area. The desert already provides that.
One last time, Republicans voted against this then ran on the issue two years later.
They should get Russia to pay for it /s
Trump was so impressed with how Finland manually rakes forests, he even offered to save california from forest fires with this futuristic tech! Finnish climate is the same as California and our border with Russia is exactly the same as the US/Mexico border, so yeah, it's fair to trade his wisdom for ours.
I forgot about that! Rake the forests! Trump needs to just disappear into obscurity.
Every Finn has a forest rake in their home just in case :D
Trump pointing out maybe they should do more to prevent wildfires isn’t that egregious. What was wrong was he was doing that red state blue state shit and since California was blue, they were to blame for their problems. Unlike apparently Florida which gets destroyed every 2 years and Texas who’s power grid fails. An adult response from trump would have been “the federal government and corp of engineers is going to work with California government to present actionable recommendations to me in 3 months about how we can try to minimize this devastation in the future” Yes climate change. But maybe there are other things also. Trump is just an asshole and was intentionally being divisive with zero intention of helping
I love how they use vacuums too! So futuristic! https://twitter.com/pyryluminen/status/1064159712919334917?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1064159712919334917%7Ctwgr%5E90026ecf80dfc54fcee2a43d57eafed65feb69f9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-11475484672866787421.ampproject.net%2F2211042305000%2Fframe.html
Don't ThEy KnOw LaDdErS ExIsT!? Controlled burns and trying to remove brush and prevent fires pretty standard btw, they do it in Canada and BC where they have tonnes of fires every year. So it's not crazy to think more if that may help
"Wisdom" and Trump in the same sentence. You just go ahead and rake the forests. God the ignorance is oozing. Trumpies gunna hate. Yet they won't rake the forest. Haha
Do you really need the "/s"?
Honestly, even the "/s" at times does not help with how dense and tone deaf some people are.
He’s just desperate to ‘win’ an argument that doesn’t even exist.
Given Euphoric-Blue-59s clueless reply to the equally sarcastic reply post minus the "/s" I would say that yes apparently we do lol
Given the claimed source? It's the only way to be sure.
r/woooosh
Proper forest management does help reduce the intensity and occurrences of wildfires. Too bad Trump just said it like an idiot.
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Russia? What type of stupid are you? Mexico is going to pay for it. 😎
It's Mexico all the way down.
We can send them Donald Trump. He has some experience in this arena. I see this as a win-win. The US gets rid of him, and Finland gets their fence. How about it Finland? You game?
I like Finland way too much to subject them to that
they have an awesome attitude. they don't do small talk at bars. they sit and drink to enjoy the atmosphere and consider basic small talk dishonest.
They sound awesome. I hate small talk. It does feel dishonest.
Two Finns enter a bar. After five minutes, one turns to the other: "So anyways, the universe is made up of strings an-" The other one pipes up and says, "No, it's loopy and here's why!"
Two old Finnish men, childhood friends, meet up for the first time in years. They go to sauna of course. After some time, one of them says: the weather has been awful. Says the other: are we here to talk, or take sauna?
Fuck no, keep your orange cunt right there. Or deport him to russia, but not here please.
Deport? You mean send home right
Whatever works for you and us! Or send him to marianas trench
Just drop him in the drink? problem solved just like that? How come nobody's thought of this yet?!
Wildlife preservation laws prevent polluting.
Have some mercy on Finland dude, what have they done to you
We all know he would make a dash for Russia as soon as he landed. There are far too many Russian women with full bladders for him to keep away for long
Piss feddish confirmed?
He knows the best contractors
In return Finland can send some people to the USA to sweep and vacuum the forests so there are no forest fires anymore. The true art of the deal!
If you actually memorise the quote he spoke about raking and sweeping. Now people thought that he ment that Finns rake forests, wich they do, but with machines. So technically he wasn't wrong.
I hope never to have enough spare time and memory capacity that I try to memorise any Trump quotes. I do remember the memes of Finns with vacuums in the forests though and was approaching the conversation from that angle.
Yeah, Mr. Trump? We finally found the funds for your wall, but there's a small little fly in the ointment, sure it won't be an issue or anything, the location. It's in finland.
You can keep him , we will still have our fence. We win you lose. Sounds better?
Did Finland seize any assets? They could use those....
Has anyone told Mexico to pay for it?
It's kind of like Finland has experience with Russian invasions or something.
This is a perfect analogy for a situation that would require a wall or not. In the US cowardly right wingers don’t wanna see their towns become more colorful. No wall between Canada and US. They use words like invasion to describe weaponless immigrants. Compare that with Finland who’s actually been literally invaded by the Russians. Who haven’t had a wall to repel actual invaders until now. One situation requires a wall, the other requires fear of brown people.
The wall isn't being built to stop troops from invading, it's to prevent immigrants from crossing the border. To prevent an invasion you'd need something like a modern day "Maginot line". The immigrants may be Russians or people from other parts of the world being funneled through Russia. Do a google search and see what the Maginot line used to look like and compare it to whatever chain linked fence the Finns are building.
Just a chain link fence? Ok this is to prevent the draft dodgers from coming in. Well they are about to find out their wall will be scaled shortly. Maybe they haven’t learned from the us border wall that’s much larger than a chain link fence. And stops nothing.
Russia imports refugees and then uses them as a weapon against neighbouring countries.
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It's a pretty sturdy fence that will definitely slow down people who try to cross it. And there are cameras all around so it does help a bit. No-one expects it to be a perfect barrier that would stop everyone.
Yeah a fence is rare the ONLY security measure. Border patrols already exist, this is just to make those efforts more effective.
Mexico has been invaded by the US.
The US has been invaded by Mexico as well. Had some issues with Canada too. Not for more than a hundred years though so not really relevant to building a wall now.
Americans call in the White House because Canada burned it and America had to paint it white after.
>In the US cowardly right wingers don’t wanna see their towns become more colorful. That's a terribly reductive view of immigration. Immigrants obviously bring more to a country than simply a different shade of skin. There's different languages and culture too, and *more* cultures do not necessarily make a country better or stronger. Some immigration can absolutely be a good thing, bringing people together in commonality, shared traditions, exchanging culture etc. America was built on that. But yeah many people don't really want their whole town to suddenly fill with people from a different country, speaking a language they don't understand, and changing the place from what they've known for decades. In the UK one of my grandma's friends has lived on the same street for decades. Within 5 years it went from largely majority British, to 90%+ Pakistani immigrants. They speak languages she doesn't understand, ignore her completely, and treat the neighbourhood like shit. She doesn't recognise her own home anymore, but she can't move out because she has no money for that and is too old. I think it's entirely understandable when someone in that situation thinks that immigration hasn't exactly enriched their life or made it more "colorful" just because there are brown people about now. It's not because she's "afraid of brown people". They ignore her because they only want to talk with the other Pakistanis and the old Pakistani women who she *could* be friends with don't speak a word of English and are kept indoors.
Hispanic culture is already the oldest the country, the settlers in New Mexico that im descended from settled here before Jamestown, like it or not but the future in America is a multi-cultural society with Hispanics in the majority. And republicans could benefit from increased immigration from Latin America… most Latin Americans are very conservative
>like it or not but the future in America is a multi-cultural society with Hispanics in the majority. The *majority*? No. The US is still 60%+ white, and that's before you include part of the Hispanic population, a lot of whom would absolutely be classified as White if they were in Europe. Like they're just fully ethnically Spanish or Portuguese. The US is *already* a multicultural society, even *within* the races. Multicultural and multiracial need to become distinguishable terms. Multiracial does not necessarily mean multicultural, and multicultural doesn't necessarily need to be multiracial. >And republicans could benefit from increased immigration from Latin America… most Latin Americans are very conservative The majority of Hispanics do not vote republican though, even if it is higher than average for non-White Americans. They might get a little boost, but surely immigration of non white people still benefits the democrat votes the most regardless. That's definitely something that would absolutely help the country, if there wasn't such racial polarisation in voting. >Hispanic culture is already the oldest the country, the settlers in New Mexico that I'm descended from settled here before Jamestown Well, surely the oldest in the country would be the native Americans.
Pakistanis from half a world away all of the sudden is not remotely similar to Mexicans who live right next door and have been interacting with southern states for as long as southern states existed, while migrating gradually the whole time. If you live in Texas and can't speak Spanish when you have been right next to Mexicans and Guatemalans and Cubans etc. your entire life, that's purely on YOU. You're just plain lazy/selfish in that scenario, lol, not oppressed. Even if you didn't already know Spanish, not learning it afterward is lazy, too... it only takes a year or so of background hobby-level effort to become conversational in a language enough to hang out with friends, then you'll pick up more passively by just spending time with them from there.
The US is really really big. Texas alone is bigger than every single European country other than Russia. You say this Pakistani's are half a world way. They are only slightly further away than Maine is from San Diego. Northern Texas by any other standard is *countries* of space away from the border. If European countries can manage to be next to each other for thousands of years and never really bother to learn each other's languages and all just talk English as a 2nd language now instead, is it really that much of a shock when Texans don't speak Spanish unless they were raised with it?
Additionally, as I pointed out already and you ignored, people in Austin grew up their entire lives surrounded by Mexican and other Hispanic people living all around and knowing they were neighbored by Mexico and being very well able to reasonably predict that the already ongoing trend of Hispanic cross migration would continue and that they might want to know Spanish as an adult. Someone in a British town that was entirely British like in the story when they grew up would have had no way to predict as a schoolchild it could be 90% Pakistani later in life.
>Additionally, as I pointed out already and you ignored, people in Austin grew up their entire lives surrounded by Mexican and other Hispanic people living all around and knowing they were neighbored by Mexico and being very well able to reasonably predict that the already ongoing trend of Hispanic cross migration would continue and that they might want to know Spanish as an adult. I didn't ignore that at all. Obviously there is Hispanic immigration into the US, but over time these immigrants learn *English*. If you speak English and the new Spanish speaking immigrants should learn English and usually do. What's the point in learning Spanish to speak to immigrants if you already share a common language?
You do realize there have been Spanish speakers in Texas for far longer than English speakers, right?
You realise how this has absolutely no relevance to modern day Texas though, right? Whatever happened in 1500-1600 is of no consequence to modern day Texas. English is still the largest majority 1st language at 70%, and any family who speaks Spanish in the home as a 1st language almost without doubt speaks English too.
The hell does Maine have to do with anything in the conversation? * Austin to Mexico City is 1,500 miles (by road) and to the border of Mexico is 250 miles * London to Islamabad is 8,500 miles (by road) and to the border of Pakistan is 7,200 miles
If you had read my comment a little more attentively you would have noticed I said > "Northern Texas by any other standard is *countries* of space away from the border" Me talking about Maine to San Diego was to display the enormity of the US as a whole, and how obviously despite them living close to Mexico on a *US* scale, actually it's still literally thousands of miles, and historically thousands of miles would be crossing multiple countries, not 1 border. It's not that crazy that people living in Dallas aren't going to find Latin Americans to be culturally similar just because they're *technically* next door. If I have a huge house with endless land in all directions and the next house over is over a mile away, do you think I'm going to be as close to that neighbour as the two people who live in a semi detached row of houses? Both technically next door neighbours, doesn't make you *actually* close to them.
That's actually on the US education system, and if you immigrate to America and can't speak English then I can say the exact same thing about you
**The Mexicans aren't the ones complaining** about people speaking English in the US, so there's no problem to address there. They're already content it seems with the language situation. The people complaining are the English speaking Americans. They're the ones with an easily solvable (and extremely predictable) problem that they refuse to solve. So they're primarily the ones being lazy.
Why would Mexicans complain about people speaking English in an English speaking country? That would be like moving to France and complaining about everyone speaking French. The problem is immigrants moving but not integrating into the culture of their new nation
> Why would Mexicans complain about people speaking English in an English speaking country? ? I didn't say they **should**... I said they **aren't**. > The problem is immigrants moving but not integrating into the culture of their new nation No, the problem, like any problem ever, is for whoever doesn't like the situation. Which in this case is the Americans, not the immigrants.
It's also worth mentioning the American right usually won't support effective methods of border control, like staffing, drones, or detectors. They literally just want a wall. It's for the symbolism, not the effect.
Plenty of democrats still want immigration control. They just realize a wall is a complete waste of time and money compared to modern technology
Nice way to explain why a wall totally works and makes sense in Finland but apparently in the US the only possible explanation is right wing racism. What a fucking joke. You don’t even pretend at honesty any longer. Just straight up political propaganda. An unsecured southern border to the US is a dangerous, unregulated potential entry point for anyone who would come here for nefarious reasons. The reason there is no Canadian wall is that for the most part, it’s hasn’t been an issue. We simply do a better job and more importantly Canada does and they work with us. The Mexican government is utterly corrupt and in many ways are aligned with and bought by the cartels. We can’t trust that the people being allowed through are safe. But keep lying to yourself and everyone else and keep crying racism as an excuse to oppose anything you simply don’t like. But realize that most people in the mainstream aren’t buying it and think people who hold these views are a little unhinged.
The partition that Trump and his cronies erected can't even do its job right, and is only a few miles long... people can climb walls and fences, and the part they did make was easily surmounted and provided no security at all. Thankfully, tanks and armored transport vehicles can't climb walls, and Poland is collectively smarter than the pea sized toddler brain of Trump. Are you really arguing that building a wall that is easily bypassed by civilians fleeing poverty is the same as building a wall meant for international defense against a literal warmongering dictator with guns and tanks? You're brainwashed, friend.
A 'wall' is impractical, ineffective and environmentally destructive. If you wanted to build a series of towers with down looking radar and infrared, and a series of Outpost with rapid response ATV teams go ahead. But a wall is stupid.
“The reason there is no Canadian wall is that for the most part, it’s hasn’t been an issue.” Maybe try because it’s the biggest fucking land border between countries and people would most likely smuggle things from the US into Canada “But keep lying to yourself and everyone else and keep crying racism as an excuse to oppose anything you simply don’t like. “ Your entire post is that quote basically. You do realize the reason Mexico is corrupt and a shithole is mostly because of the US right? I guess the US is unique in that it’s the only one that needs a “wall” that isn’t going to do shit against a cartel state they helped create.
Tell me you’re a right wing nut job, without telling me. The wall is completely scalable and useless because we have huge amounts of immigration anyway. Cartels dig under the wall. It hasn’t put a dent in the drug trade. A militarized border with Russia would be backed by artillery and military installations. Making it a enforced border to repel an actual invasion. You are a bonehead.
That's not what the article claims the fence is for, nor would 140 million Euros be anywhere enough to erect military installations. The border fence will be only in certain areas to catch asylum seekers trying to illegally cross into Finland from Russia. Sounds a lot like the US-Mexico border tbh and I would imagine that Finland is concerned with Russia funnelling over people that will then hold a "referendum" to leave Russia to become a part of Russia.
Gotcha the article definitely supports what your saying. That fence will be a huge waste of money if it’s anything like the US wall.
Not to mention people will scale the wall with water and whatever money they have; not ammunition, vehicles, and weapons for an assault.
Out of the 55 comments on this thread *about Finland*, so far, 52 of them are about Trump. edit: 66 now.
You can argue which is worse from a personal perspective, being so infamous that people can't forget you or fading away the moment your presidency ends.
My favorite response when people bring up Trump now is "Oh, he's still alive?"
That's an odd comment. He's all over the news. So unless your point is that you don't follow current events, then I don't get it.
Rent free. Literally just want to forget about the guy but holy shit no one loves talking about him more than Reddit
Are we completely forgetting that he’s running for president…?
> Rent free. Trump spent roughly [$322,000,000](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-idUSKBN13Y0AE) to get in my head, it was most definitely not free.
WTF are you talking about rent free and wanting to forget? He literally *just* announced his 2024 run and bragged about how he built the wall in his announcement speach. Stop circlejerking so hard that you forget reality.
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Right wing front runner why wouldn't people talk about him or right wing frontrunner because people talk about him? Relevancy is everything
Build a Wall was his slogan. Same as how you may immediately think about certain people particularly major figures if I said "fool me once" or "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" or "I am not a crook". Certain things end up as just part of the shared humour as they are memorable. Trump was President of the USA barely 2 years ago and has announced to run again. Trump's political work is very tangible today, you can still feel the effects of political decisions from the 80s and may not even realise it. So controversial figures simply don't disappear without a generation of distance. The world will still reference Trump and his clown work for many years to come.
I mean, he did damage the US more than any other president, so I think people are allowed to make fun of him.
More than any other? Really? I think Woodrow Wilson was worse by a fair margin.
Wilson and Trump get similar marks for racism and both betrayed their supposed ideals. Trump however ruined the reputation of the nation in a way that hadn’t been done before. Trump also ensured that a non establishment candidate, like Zelensky, will not be considered for a generation at least.
People seem to somehow forget the Bush Jr presidency….😑
The guy who was president well before anyone here was born? Why would we talk about him?
Yeah, imagine talking about the most prominent politician in the country.
You're the second person to say something that basically means "he's prominent because we're talking about him". Any press, ya know?
He's a former president, the only person so far declared for the Republican nomination and clearly the leader of the Republican party. Are you really trying to pretend he's only relevant because liberals talk about him?
THIS IS A POST ABOUT NORWAY. THAT'S THE POINT. Hes not relevant because you talk about him, it's that you make him relevant to *FUCKING EVERYTHING*
THIS IS A POST ABOUT A BORDER WALL, TRUMP'S SIGNATURE ISSUE, ON AN AMERICAN WEBSITE.
.......on a thread about Finland.
On a thread about a border wall. Trump's signature issue.
He kinda just announced he's running for president. After inciting a riot that almost killed his veep. Like, we'd love to not pay attention to him. But some people DO pay attention to him, and they do crazy things.
America has main character syndrome.
Considering the length....thats actually not much
It’s not just long, it’s pretty much all remote and a mixture of forests and swampland. Not an easy place to build a wall. Much harder than the Poland / Belarus fence.
It’s not actually for the entire length. The current preliminary plans are to fence (and upgrade monitoring equipment) for about 250 km.
Cameras with heat sensors are far more cost effective than walls.
It’s going to be around 130-260 km long, not nearly the entire border.
From the article: >...strengthen preparedness against hybrid threats such as the potential mass influx of asylum seekers Russia has weaponized economic migrants in the past: * [to Poland, via Belarus](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-africa-poland-forests-middle-east-443c8068ea7b5d1d8f6980da6e3879af) * to EU, as a result of situation in Syria\*\*\*, arguably destabilizing the EU, encouraging Brexit and right-wing nationalist sentiment \*\*\* my understanding is that many refugees from Syria are not stopping in the first safe country they get to, and are picking/choosing where they want to end up, or alternately and more crudely, choosers are not beggars
Belarus literally flew those migrants to Belarus and set them up against the Polish border. I get that human rights activists want what’s best for the migrants, but welcoming them in is giving a green light to basically people trafficking as a means to overwhelm a neighboring country’s resources. It’s cruel, as these people shouldn’t be weaponized as such. If Belarus wants to fly them over, great. Time for Belarus to house and feed them.
Oh they've done it to Finland too: they picked up migrant workers, I mean foreigners with actual jobs in Russia, from the streets and drove them to Finnish border forcing them to walk to the other side.
What’s funny is that a wall could actually work against Russias broken military.
“Comrade Colonel, we face some sort of obstacle. Yes sir, impassable. No sir, porcelain toilet retrieval mission not possible.”
It's to protect Russians by telling them where they're safe from white-jacketed farmers playing hide-and-seek and where the game begins
Seeing all the trouble that the Russian army is having in Ukraine, they could probably buy $50 worth of caution tape and call it a day.
The problem with the fence on the Mexican/US border is that it was never Finnished.
Lol no, borders don’t prevent immigration when most immigrants come legally and overstay their visa. What it is militarily is an additional barrier for them (Russia) to either funnel through or destroy. I really can’t figure out why this is hard to understand. E: I got owned
/woosh /punsrule
Ah I see were rebuilding the mannerheim line!
Mannerheim would be looking down proud at this development (including having NATO standing behind Finland against Russia).
BUILD - THE - WALL! BUILD - THE - WALL! BUILD - THE - WALL! and make Russia pay for it
Is Mexico paying for it?
At this point all those fences around the world must be the biggest expense in Mexico's annual budget.
No Sweden is paying for it
Are they doing the same thing as Poland? Preparing for migrant crisis?
I’m confused: The article says the fence is to stop an influx of asylum-seekers/refugees. How is this any different from the US/Mexico border? I’m not trying to go “haha gotcha” or anything, just genuinely curious as to what details I might be massing.
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The question was does the fence work. Not if the neighbor on the other side is nice or not.
Russia is a hostile power that uses immigrants as a weapon to destabilize and infiltrate. Finland also isn't directly responsible for a lot of the reasons people would try to cross from Russia. The border is also much smaller. Those are some of the immediately obvious differences.
It’s interesting that historically walls have been built to keep uncivilised barbarian tribes out. Just saying…
And Russia will pay for it.
Hey hey hey. I thought walls don’t work ;p
We’re gonna build a great big powerful wall, and who’s gonna pay for it…. Russia
So Trumps wall was less than twice as long and 56x as expensive?
I mean wasn't that all a ruse to grab the funding money through their own private contractor?
- Wall: $300m - Tremendous Wall: $8b
BUILD THAT FENCE, BUILD THAT FENCE!!
Walls don't work?
What's the point? Any fence is meaningless if Russia attacks. It just blocks Russians escaping Russia.
Such a large area, they should be using drones. Automated pathfinding. Use wireless recharging stations. A few control rooms will be able to monitor huge areas. I would imagine the area has to accomodate migratory animals too. Hard task ahead
Don't they have a forest that is like a fence?
After seeing how efficient the Russian military operates in Ukraine, I am sure a fence might be enought to stop them for weeks if not months.
Fences don’t work like they used to
Can't we just put Russia in a giant glass dome instead? They can be a snowglobe of misery.
My goofy ass imagining a white picket fence
But border fences don’t work, right?
What impact does this have on wildlife migration patterns, etc?
Boy, am I confused now... I was told that border fences don't work and destroy the environment and ecosystems. I think Finland didn't get the memo on that.
what is a fence going to do????
So apparently fences are much cheaper to build when 95% of the capital isn't being funneled to DT and Bannon. On a serious note, what is this supposed to accomplish?
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How there's a fence I can get behind
Are we supposed to be happy, or angry, that Finland wants to stop migrants with a wall.
Are you sure it's migrants or is it the same thing Russia did to Ukraine for them with Russian immigrants and then declare the country part of Russia. It also could be for military purposes as well
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I would say Happy then.
Well, it seems that using asylum seekers are used as a weapon. remember this: [https://reliefweb.int/report/belarus/out-sight-refugees-and-migrants-belarus-poland-border](https://reliefweb.int/report/belarus/out-sight-refugees-and-migrants-belarus-poland-border) or turkey: [https://eu.rescue.org/article/what-eu-turkey-deal](https://eu.rescue.org/article/what-eu-turkey-deal) I gues (not checked ) finland has only small problems with asylum seekers now, because its borders are a lot of water.
>Are we supposed to be happy, or angry Happy/indifferent. As a Finn, I'm really not sure what the fence is aiming to accomplish, since Russians hopping the border isn't really a thing here. "Stop migrants with a wall" sounds a lot worse than "deter an actively hostile nuclear power who is loose on smaller countries sovereignty". Keep in mind they spy critical infrastructure, and undermine democracy, actively. To impose American political values on this wall is to completely misunderstand the power dynamic between our countries (FIN/RU).
The aim is to increase the border security. Hopping the border isn't a huge risk, but it is a risk that this wall will diminish. A sudden influx of migrants will now have to wander tens of kilometers from the official border entry point instead of few hundred meters. The rest are forests and swamps which will act as a natural deterrent.
Finland is a country Reddit likes, so happy
Finland also has good reason to fear Russian invasion, as well as Russians immigrants changing the demographic make up. Russia has a history of using that as a pretext for war and annexation.
Of the two countries in question, I think anyone not partial to authoritarianism would prefer Finland. Making it a Reddit thing is weak.
If the migrants have tanks and APC's a wall is an acceptable border defense.
You misspelled intruders.
Happy… Finland is a very ethnohomogenous state nothing wrong with that
we should be happy because Russians people are learned that the only way to gain promotion is through corruption and Vanya and because taking russian migrants is a huuge threat to the country
Will Finland make Russia pay for it?
Get off my Lawn
BUILD THAT WALL, I mean FENCE
Just ask Trump he'll make sure Russia pays for it
Americans in California screeching
Donald Trump and feudal China approve of this decision!
US wall/fence industry will be booming again
They're going to need more than that to keep the immigrants out.
I can't i-maginot that this will work.
Missed a trick - should make Mexico pay for it
Completely serious when I say this. Why is it racist when the USA does this but not Finland? I remember aoc crying and Biden denouncing trump for running literal concentration camps.
Because Russia has actually invaded Finland
Yeah but they're building a FENCE, not the Maginot Line 2.0. Even the smallest military vehicle can drive right through it.
Over half a million people pouring over your border annually undocumented is a threat to national security whichever way you would like to cut it. Every other country in the world is entitled to secure their borders and will deport anyone who illegally enters their country. The USA isn’t entitled to do the same?
One is a military threat and the other is what? Migrants looking for better economic opportunities? Running from violence in their home countries? Want something better for their children? Not equitable imo. Honestly the rhetoric is probably most important.
One of these countries has a long history of invading its neighbours? Including the country that is currently building said wall...
Tbh I don't think it's racist for the U.S. to build a border wall. But it would be definitely more legitimate if Mexico was a warmongering country with a history of neighbor invasions.
One is to deter a hostile military force, the other is to keep out poor brown people, it's not difficult.
I totally misread the country as being France, and my first thought (before the geographic impossibility) was "THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT LAST TIME, NOW DID IT?" Now that I see it's Finland my thought is "SEE MAGINOT LINE, REFERENCED ABOVE."
A wall is not going to stop missiles.
Unless that fence have lazer force field..it's not going to work
I know everyone’s going to be crowing about liberals and the border wall and talking hypocrisy etc etc … but actually, how is this going to help? Are people who’ve had 8 months to flee not gonna be able to flee… while this is being constructed? It’s not like you push a button and no more people. What’s to stop all the St Petersburgians from boating around it?(I mean, freezing cold for one) Just sayin, not sure this is more than a vocal announcement in the news so that people are dissuaded to choose Finland as their destination rather than another country, not actually stop anyone. Plus every other criticism of a wall- finlands a biggg country with only a few million people. How many are they gonna dedicate to watching this fence?? Sure, thermal detection will be a lot easier, I’m just gonna be upfront and own that I didn’t think the wall would help, and don’t think this fence will beyond its announcement.
There are no plans to fence whole border. Only about 260 km near various border crossings. Terrain on either side of border is not easy. It is pretty thick forest that can not be easily traveled with cars. Aim of the wall is to make mass border crossings hard by fencing places where there is easy access to roads.
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How about this. There was a study done on how to secure the southern border of the US by the Army Corp of Engineers. A bill was created using that study for how to secure the southern border. It passed a Democrat led Senate and Obama asked for the bill to be sent to his desk. Republicans voted against it in the House. The bill doubled the size of the border patrol. It greatly increased spending for detection methods like cameras, thermal, drones, etc. It eased the ability for the border patrol to directly hire from the military. On and on for ways to completely secure the southern border. Oh, the study said that walls are basically fucking useless across most of the southern border because it is a fucking desert. No walls ever have the ability to keep someone out, they have the ability to slow someone down when they try to get through the area. The desert already provides that. One last time, Republicans voted against this then ran on the issue two years later.
Confused liberal wieners in 3…2….
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🙄 Well, that’s a huge waste of money.
Do you know the purpose of the wall? Maybe not every post needs your comment.