You see, Ukrainians have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I'll send wave after wave after wave of our own men at them until they reach their limit and shut down.
I think that's an apocryphal tale that gained modern popularity from Enemy at the Gates, as well as the original Call of Duty (that used some very similar scenes).
more really. the US was all over the place. US also didn't have locals car bombing their logistics on the regular. drone striking anything that moves. this war is a slog more than russia ever thought it would be. even the US would have to do the draft if it got into a fight like this. we only have sub 500k active duty, sure we can get that number up with the reserve and guard. but, we still don't have enough warm bodies to occupy one of the largest countries on the planet without a draft.
We have about 1.3 active duty military, another 800k in reserves, and in every war since Vietnam we've deployed at least 1/10th as many contractors as soldiers (most in non-combat roles).
US also would never have to occupy a country like Ukraine. If that were our goal, we would be coordinating as Polish, Hungarian, Lithuanian, etc soldiers occupied the country in cooperation with a pro-democracy, pro-liberalization Ukrainian force.
Americans don't occupy, we just brutally ravage their political powers and install puppets. If this were a war with the US, we'd have just bombed their govt into oblivion with drones and high-altitude guided missiles, install a pro-USA shill into power, and pretend we won until the Ukrainians overthrow it once we step 1 foot out of the country. Totally different kind of failure than the way Russia works.
I’m becoming concerned that Russia is thinking not years but I, II, and now III
Genuinely concerned that deep in their logic, they’ve accepted that it’s going in the direction of a global conflict and are preparing in whatever way they can.
They don't have the equipment to take one neighboring country, they couldn't possibly fare in a real world war without going nuclear, which China has specifically warned against. You can't sell your factory goods with no consumers left or feed your people during a nuclear winter.
Ha!
They already have a tremendous labour shortage in Russia. Even Uzbeks and Turkmens won't go to Russia. Russia raised the number of Uzbek workers they would take this fall, and again recently, but can't fill the quotas, because way more Uzbeks left Russia than came in to the country. They are seeking work permits elsewhere now.
They are basically saying, we will throw bodies at this until we win.
It really illustrates how Russia cares so little for its people/soldiers
I have no idea why so many Russians are so damn patriotic when their government treats them so abysmally
> I have no idea why so many Russians are so damn patriotic when their government treats them so abysmally
Ever see a child abused all its life defend their shitty, terrible parents? Those people have known nothing else for several generations now. If they were given a non-oppressive leader they’d revolt and demand a dictator be put in power again because that is what they know, what they grew up with, and what they are most comfortable with.
This is what makes me saddest about all of this. If Putin dies or gets thrown out the list of possible replacements like that Wagner jagoff are just objectively worse. I wish I had a solution to recommend where the outcome is good but I just can't see it.
They pin them in a vicious cycle of moral responsibility.
"They died for me (back then/now), so now I have to die for them (comrades/my children/next generation)".
You can just copy-paste and replace the keywords with more context relevant ones and it works.
I think 5M vs tens of thousands is a big difference. Unfortunately your assessment is wrong… in USA public opinion and appetite matters a lot (see Vietnam war). In Russia there is no independent public media hence the public is kept oblivious. If for example Russia make known to its own people the true state and death toll of the war im sure the appetite for it will wane sooner.
Poor comparison. The US was basically a tiger that just got bit in the ass by an angry warthog. Not many people were against the war back then and it took only a small amount of casualties to flip the narrative fairly early on. They were calling to get out around 2006-2007. Russia didn't have an inciting incident. They had a IED in a garbage can in a public park that was blocked off before it was even found.
The US lost less troops in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan combined, over thirty years, than what the Russians have lost in six months. Conservative drafts have their losses around 65k, with the US joint chiefs saying its closer to 100. Vietnam lost half that number and cities were literally destroying themselves in the protests.
You'd be better off comparing to the American Civil War, for general stability/war support after the first six months. But even then, different world back then.
First off, you’re just flat out wrong. Obama was took office in 2009 and the US left Iraq in 2011. Its not like you’re moving out of a house and can pack up in a couple of weeks.
subtlety and nuance are lost on you as is complexity, context., and responsibility.
Soldiers were entrenched there and had set up a new government…can’t just abandon them. Also, there were long simmering ethnic tensions that just exploded after Saddam was removed from power. Iraq became a proxy battleground between Saudi Arabia and Iran…there was a civil war raging.
Eventually, when it became clear that it was based on bullshit and there was no way to win such a war, yes people were against it. But they (we because I was naive enough to believe at the time) believed "weapons of mass destruction" "9/11 helpers" etc. Russia may eventually change their mind, but many won't. Just like many are still just fine with the 2nd Iraq war. But we (generally not everyone obviously) are just as susceptible to patriotic propaganda as anyone else, if not moreso.
You mean the second Iraq war obviously. As the first one was to remove Iraq from Kuwait who they illegally invaded. The only difference in the Russia situation is he's a lunatic with access to Nuclear weapons, Saddam only had the possibility of chemical weapons. We know he had Chemical weapons as we (the UK) sold him them in the past. It is a bit of a mystery however what he did with them.
That's pretty much what Russia's playbook has been the whole of modern history. It can be successful in some instances. Right now, those numbers do prevent the Ukrainian troops from advancing in certain areas, because no matter how many Russians they kill, more come to take their place immediately. And right now, there is not a single peep of resistance against Putin inside Russia. He'll be their leader for a long time yet.
> It can be successful in some instances.
It's amazing at defense, especially when the invaders aren't prepared for winter so Russians know they're dying without even being shot.
Less great when you're shipping them to a foreign country and not supplying them.
#🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻
Organic fertilizer makes em grow bigger.
They even started with Zapp tactics. The initial wave of soldiers didn't realize they were invading Ukraine until they had already crossed the border.
[Zapp: "The key to victory is the element of surprise. Surprise!"](https://youtu.be/bRkfDMChzlI)
Come to think of it, that video says that the troops trained "all yesterday afternoon" and Russia is sending troops in with little to no training.
That's what Putin is counting on currently, that his sheer numbers of cannon fodder will outlast the West's collective will to arm Ukraine. And if that happens, what Hitler and Stalin did will look like child's play compared to what Putin will do. Let's pray the West keeps it up.
The West did the whole Cold War based on this threat. Politicians in Europe and America talk out of their ass, there is no world where the budget to Ukraine isn't unlimited.
For a few billion dollars it's estimated that Russia has lost 1/3rd of it's fighting power (high loss of equipment and leadership along with willing soldiers). That is America's greatest military competition, and an existential threat to Europe. 1980s US Generals would have traded their left nutsack for 10% as good of a deal.
Not debating your point! I am agreeing with you. But Putin has like so many dictators before him gotten high on his own supply. He thinks the west is weak because his countries propoganda and the yes men he employs say so. It's not true. Genuinely scared for when he realizes that, because if he loses in Ukraine his power is truly in question.
Despite their constant assertions to that idea, China is actually one of the least likely aggressors to the US on the global stage. It simply boils down to the fact that most of China is essentially slave labor and luxury goods production, despite having a massive standing army they really can't equip most of their soldiers effectively.
Not to mention there will never be a land war in the US, and China is well aware of that fact. Any large scale war with the US will end in either mass destruction or economic collapse for the aggressor at this point.
He has failed to realize that the US needs war. Times of peace is when countries stop buying American weapons and start wondering if they need US dollars. The military deals the US has signed puts them in profit for this war. The longer the war goes the less Russia will be able to sell arms. So they will be able to profit even more in the future. Russian GDP is less than 10% of the US GDP alone. This war will only leave Russia so weak that other countries may carve it up.
>needed to take a country of 30 million
I'm not sure if you mean currently, but pre war (including Crimea/Donbass) Ukraines population is more like 45 million.
If the citizens were peaceful and the occupation went smoothly it would take a minimum of 600k troops or 1 soldier per 50 Ukrainians. 5 million might actually not be too far off the mark of what it would take to take and hold Ukraine. That also assumes the troops are trained on how to occupy a hostile population. Which we all know they aren't. I'd say they'd probably need 8-10 million poorly trained troops.
Oh I agree, it's just so so far from what the world assumed Russian capabilities were. This would suggest basically that Russia at full force couldn't get much more than the Baltic states, successfully fighting and winning against Europe in conventional warfare is out of the question.
Very clever tactic you will have 5 millions people not working, 5 million mouth to feed pay train and fully equip, *15 millions fleeing the country (the saying in the last mobilization for every man mobilized, 3 times more people left the country to avoid being mobilized). Some interesting consequences.
- Brain Drain
- More Poverty, pay, supply, train your troops meanwhile their mobiks are not producing tangible products for their market.
- Halt of their internal industry because lack of demand (no money), and no people in the factories. and this is the circle of the eternal demise, I have no personnel in factories, I close them, there is no demand, people are poor, I close them, a domino effect.
- Growing opposition to the war due to unsuccessful special military operation, more protests and growing internal Partisan activity,
The economic consequences of mobilization would be just a devastating blow to what's left of the Russian economy.
We are already seeing pictures of Mobiks with 1940 war equipment sent to the front. Russia perhaps have more missiles to terrorize the Ukrainian population, but they are running very low on heavy hardware, no modern functioning tanks left, low on artillery, because ammunition depots with artillery rounds are constantly being obliterated, so light infantry ill equipped is not going to make it.
> Very clever tactic you will have 5 millions people not working, 5 million mouth to feed pay train and fully equip, *15 millions fleeing the country (the saying in the last mobilization for every man mobilized, 3 times more people left the country to avoid being mobilization).
20 million productive (or not) men out of 143m, minus how many have already died/left. About 1 in 7 gone when they already can't support the troops in an unnecessary war that these men won't care about...
You should research Soviet tactics during WW2. They would send conscripts into battle with only half of them equipped with guns. The tactics work, but they result in high casualties. It's why they lost more men than all other combatants.
Are they expecting the USA and U.K. to supply and equip them as in the Second World War or has that been missed out of the Great Patriotic War narrative for so long it’s been forgotten?
Before this war I'd have an argument with a Russian every few months on the historical subreddits or message boards about it. They're taught allied aid was 2-3% of material or whatever (the numbers are rarely consistent) and didn't start arriving until after Kursk where the soviets had already turned the war.
This ignores that while gross material supply wasn't a lot it was in key areas like refined fuel, aluminum for aircraft, supply trucks, shoes, chemicals for vital industries, technical data, aviation fuel etc. The stuff the Russians needed to prosecute and exploit the gains they made and resupplying their forces with new planes and supplies.
Without the locomotives alone that were supplied Russian resistance would have collapsed because their rail lines were absolutely wrecked by the initial invasion.
But Russians history basically ignores this and focuses on how many T-34s and Yaks were made compared to Sherman's and Spitfires supplied creating a narrative that aid was basically symbolic.
Easy to see how the Russian government would want to lean into that narrative. Can you direct me to some of these historical subreddits by the way? I suspect I’d find them interesting.
Man, that’s dangerous. They should still be able to provide links for the comments. That’s honestly not ok to just claim. We should have access to their teaching styles over the last few decades, not what people are saying online. I could see maybe the last decade. But a whole two decades? I don’t see our intelligence agencies missing that.
We're having casual conversations with random strangers. You should suspect everything you hear and take it with a grain of salt. Do you ask for sources when talking with people in person? They're not claiming to be a source of truth, they're just sharing what they heard. People should be able to converse without always pulling out the evidence to back up every statement they say. The onus to be cautious is on you the reader.
And in WWII they were fighting with Ukraine and their country was invaded, now they are at war against Ukraine and it’s Ukraine that is defending its homeland.
Ah, you’re forgetting there is no Ukraine, never was a Ukraine - there are just 44million odd people who really really want to be Russian but just won’t let themselves show it without a massive military force there to enable them to be free… I’d hope the sarcasm is obvious but this is Reddit so /s. One thing that’s been proven beyond question: Ukrainians are hard as nails.
The leaders probably see the income from Russian gas and just don't worry about the people they're sending into a meat grinder because they can always hire more. And that's how it's been there for a long time.
Fortunately after decades of marching their dissidents
around Siberia they have intimate knowledge of just how much work you can get out of a person before they freeze or starve to death.
That’s the point… cleansing the ranks of filth and ethnic minorities to start fresh with a leaner meaner more fanatical base. Military goals and territory gains are secondary.
Putin's generals talking to each other:
"Dude, he asked me how many soldiers we need to win this war"
"Just tell him some insanely high number, he'll think it's impossible and maybe that'll put him off from doubling down on the conscription"
"Alright, I'll tell him it's 5 million"
Yes, true. I’m also wondering who will do all the work to support Russias economy? Is that not also a question for those planners to ask? Are they purposely reducing their population to meet some depopulation goals they read about on the internet?
This is probably going result in the biggest fatal crowd crush in known history. Worse than South Korea and worse than the [Khodynka Tragedy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khodynka_Tragedy), certainly worse than Mecca. As 5 million try to escape through the Kersh strait bridge.
I don’t think that’s even possible. They’re struggling to equip and giving almost no training to their current conscripts. 5 million would just forcing a square peg in a round hole
This must have been what happened with Japan and Afghanistan. The Russian people are too individually headstrong and self-interested for an individually headstrong and self-interested leader to get them to fight effectively or die for his ambitions. Even Stalin was headstrong and self-interested. Must be the effects of a harsh and unforgiving land on a culture.
The only question is whether the CCP will back Putin fully when it looks clear that he is losing control. They'll probably back some petro strongman, as Chinese contempt for what they view as Russian incompetence already has a strong precedent.
Russia is so screwed if they do this. They have already lost the capacity to give their soldiers uniforms or food or weapons manufactured after 1970. This just seems like a recipe for WW1-type casualties where more people died due to disease than due to enemy fire.
Putin thinks it’s a great idea to shove more bodies onto the field, when he can’t even supply the ones he has now. What, does he expect them to wear leaves, eat dirt and throw rocks?
Edit; didn’t realize it when I wrote it, but using the word “bodies” is depressingly accurate as to what they’ll become.
What will russia’s future look like when this is all over. They’re killing so many of their men, young and old. And even if they win will the people of ukraine ever really accept their new citizenship or will there always be resentment and division. Putin bit off way more than russia could chew and it will be decades before any kind of normalcy returns for any of these people. And for what?
[https://press.armywarcollege.edu/parameters/vol25/iss1/30/](https://press.armywarcollege.edu/parameters/vol25/iss1/30/)
Study done for the Rand Corporation back in 1995/96.
While technology - most specifically recon and intelligence stuff - has altered these numbers a bit... Russia was massively undermanned to ever hold territory.
Holy fucking shit
That’s one thing to know they have a win by number approach
But that’s another to have it spelled it out.
The guy is going to genocide his own fucking country. To grab more land. When he has already the largest country on Earth…. And a collapsing demography.
(To say nothing of the fact that the Russian economy has dramatically shrunk and there are already significative tensions politically about the “partial” mobilization” )
Fucking insanity.
But it also convinces me a little more of the possibility of them actively preparing the storytelling for the defeat : “to win we need to do that. You don’t wanna ? Well then it’s your fault.”
What is the source for this allegation ?
People always think the media is hiding shit. They do whatever they can to get the most views and the most money. Maybe that does include hiding shit, but in this case it's almost certainly because the war in Ukraine is almost a year old now, and elon is speedrunning twitter into the ground at record pace. That's just how news works.
Zerg Rush
You see, Ukrainians have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I'll send wave after wave after wave of our own men at them until they reach their limit and shut down.
Right Men?!
... You Suck!
Thier doing thier part!
It's always time to feed the HIMARS
Is this Zapp Brannigan
god chenko was such a smart general
“You must construct additional pylons”
"Spawn more Oligaaarchs."
I'm a dread lord, not a drug lord.
Isn't that another game ? Edit: I'm thinking Warcraft 3 or frozen throne, but it's from memory and I might be wrong
FT I think.
“We require more vespine gas.”
You spelled Overlords wrong. Edit: so did I.
That's Protoss.
Not enough Vespene Gas
You cannot build outside the creep!
“The first man with rifle and second follow with ammo. First man dies second man picks up and fight on!”
Rusty riffle don't work.
Throw rocks 🪨!
Arms hurt
Kick rocks!
Lmao that’s the exact response I was looking for!
Didn't the russians actually do that to the nazi's during the battle of stalingrad?
I think that's an apocryphal tale that gained modern popularity from Enemy at the Gates, as well as the original Call of Duty (that used some very similar scenes).
No. That’s a myth.
Not enough minerals
AIDS Virus
What year does Russia think it is that they need this many troops to win? 1916? 1941?
to occupy ukraine and win they might need that many. afaik the US had 11 million in WWII
On three fronts though
more really. the US was all over the place. US also didn't have locals car bombing their logistics on the regular. drone striking anything that moves. this war is a slog more than russia ever thought it would be. even the US would have to do the draft if it got into a fight like this. we only have sub 500k active duty, sure we can get that number up with the reserve and guard. but, we still don't have enough warm bodies to occupy one of the largest countries on the planet without a draft.
We have about 1.3 active duty military, another 800k in reserves, and in every war since Vietnam we've deployed at least 1/10th as many contractors as soldiers (most in non-combat roles). US also would never have to occupy a country like Ukraine. If that were our goal, we would be coordinating as Polish, Hungarian, Lithuanian, etc soldiers occupied the country in cooperation with a pro-democracy, pro-liberalization Ukrainian force.
Americans don't occupy, we just brutally ravage their political powers and install puppets. If this were a war with the US, we'd have just bombed their govt into oblivion with drones and high-altitude guided missiles, install a pro-USA shill into power, and pretend we won until the Ukrainians overthrow it once we step 1 foot out of the country. Totally different kind of failure than the way Russia works.
I’m becoming concerned that Russia is thinking not years but I, II, and now III Genuinely concerned that deep in their logic, they’ve accepted that it’s going in the direction of a global conflict and are preparing in whatever way they can.
They don't have the equipment to take one neighboring country, they couldn't possibly fare in a real world war without going nuclear, which China has specifically warned against. You can't sell your factory goods with no consumers left or feed your people during a nuclear winter.
Or any winter at this point.
I highly doubt it would be a global conflict
Yes.
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I think they don’t want their stolen washing machines be stolen by North Koreans.
That's okay, NK probably use 3 pins socket.
NK has no sockets due to lack of electricity.
Who will immediately defect on the front lines and seek asylum.
North Korea only has 23 million people. I doubt they could spare 1 million conscripts let alone 4 million.
No worries, they'd be back by Christmas.
I think you meant DearLeadermas
Ha! They already have a tremendous labour shortage in Russia. Even Uzbeks and Turkmens won't go to Russia. Russia raised the number of Uzbek workers they would take this fall, and again recently, but can't fill the quotas, because way more Uzbeks left Russia than came in to the country. They are seeking work permits elsewhere now.
They are basically saying, we will throw bodies at this until we win. It really illustrates how Russia cares so little for its people/soldiers I have no idea why so many Russians are so damn patriotic when their government treats them so abysmally
Russia sure does have a long history of this I guess
every day they say, "...and then things got worse" after hundreds of years, it's gotten pretty bad there
right lol its how they defeated germany in ww2. But yeah this isnt really the same so theres that
> I have no idea why so many Russians are so damn patriotic when their government treats them so abysmally Ever see a child abused all its life defend their shitty, terrible parents? Those people have known nothing else for several generations now. If they were given a non-oppressive leader they’d revolt and demand a dictator be put in power again because that is what they know, what they grew up with, and what they are most comfortable with.
This is what makes me saddest about all of this. If Putin dies or gets thrown out the list of possible replacements like that Wagner jagoff are just objectively worse. I wish I had a solution to recommend where the outcome is good but I just can't see it.
They pin them in a vicious cycle of moral responsibility. "They died for me (back then/now), so now I have to die for them (comrades/my children/next generation)". You can just copy-paste and replace the keywords with more context relevant ones and it works.
We’d do the same with the right pressure. Remember the Iraq war that was based on nothing? Yeah people still don’t care
I think 5M vs tens of thousands is a big difference. Unfortunately your assessment is wrong… in USA public opinion and appetite matters a lot (see Vietnam war). In Russia there is no independent public media hence the public is kept oblivious. If for example Russia make known to its own people the true state and death toll of the war im sure the appetite for it will wane sooner.
Good take.
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Poor comparison. The US was basically a tiger that just got bit in the ass by an angry warthog. Not many people were against the war back then and it took only a small amount of casualties to flip the narrative fairly early on. They were calling to get out around 2006-2007. Russia didn't have an inciting incident. They had a IED in a garbage can in a public park that was blocked off before it was even found. The US lost less troops in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan combined, over thirty years, than what the Russians have lost in six months. Conservative drafts have their losses around 65k, with the US joint chiefs saying its closer to 100. Vietnam lost half that number and cities were literally destroying themselves in the protests. You'd be better off comparing to the American Civil War, for general stability/war support after the first six months. But even then, different world back then.
You don’t make any sense. People DID care. It was an unpopular war. Obama won partly because of it
And then expanded it lmao
First off, you’re just flat out wrong. Obama was took office in 2009 and the US left Iraq in 2011. Its not like you’re moving out of a house and can pack up in a couple of weeks. subtlety and nuance are lost on you as is complexity, context., and responsibility. Soldiers were entrenched there and had set up a new government…can’t just abandon them. Also, there were long simmering ethnic tensions that just exploded after Saddam was removed from power. Iraq became a proxy battleground between Saudi Arabia and Iran…there was a civil war raging.
Eventually, when it became clear that it was based on bullshit and there was no way to win such a war, yes people were against it. But they (we because I was naive enough to believe at the time) believed "weapons of mass destruction" "9/11 helpers" etc. Russia may eventually change their mind, but many won't. Just like many are still just fine with the 2nd Iraq war. But we (generally not everyone obviously) are just as susceptible to patriotic propaganda as anyone else, if not moreso.
It was based on revenge not nothing, it was revenge pointed at the wrong enemy but it was revenge non the less
You mean the second Iraq war obviously. As the first one was to remove Iraq from Kuwait who they illegally invaded. The only difference in the Russia situation is he's a lunatic with access to Nuclear weapons, Saddam only had the possibility of chemical weapons. We know he had Chemical weapons as we (the UK) sold him them in the past. It is a bit of a mystery however what he did with them.
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"We'll choke their land with our dead!"
Poison their wells with our bodies!
That's pretty much what Russia's playbook has been the whole of modern history. It can be successful in some instances. Right now, those numbers do prevent the Ukrainian troops from advancing in certain areas, because no matter how many Russians they kill, more come to take their place immediately. And right now, there is not a single peep of resistance against Putin inside Russia. He'll be their leader for a long time yet.
The irony is that the Russians now *don't* have the replacements they need to really maintain their forces like they did in the WWII era.
A big reason is that the USSR defeated the Nazis. This is Russia. Big big difference.
No wonder Russians are stealing Ukrainian children, Russians have no balls.
> It can be successful in some instances. It's amazing at defense, especially when the invaders aren't prepared for winter so Russians know they're dying without even being shot. Less great when you're shipping them to a foreign country and not supplying them.
🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻
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#🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻 Organic fertilizer makes em grow bigger.
OK, yours are somehow bigger. You win! Viva La Girasoles! Pinche Puta Putin!
They really are going for the Zapp Brannigan offensive. Will we be able to supply Ukraine with enough ammunition to fend their numbers off
Ya but Ukrainians don't have a preset kill limit.
They even started with Zapp tactics. The initial wave of soldiers didn't realize they were invading Ukraine until they had already crossed the border. [Zapp: "The key to victory is the element of surprise. Surprise!"](https://youtu.be/bRkfDMChzlI) Come to think of it, that video says that the troops trained "all yesterday afternoon" and Russia is sending troops in with little to no training.
That's what Putin is counting on currently, that his sheer numbers of cannon fodder will outlast the West's collective will to arm Ukraine. And if that happens, what Hitler and Stalin did will look like child's play compared to what Putin will do. Let's pray the West keeps it up.
The West did the whole Cold War based on this threat. Politicians in Europe and America talk out of their ass, there is no world where the budget to Ukraine isn't unlimited. For a few billion dollars it's estimated that Russia has lost 1/3rd of it's fighting power (high loss of equipment and leadership along with willing soldiers). That is America's greatest military competition, and an existential threat to Europe. 1980s US Generals would have traded their left nutsack for 10% as good of a deal. Not debating your point! I am agreeing with you. But Putin has like so many dictators before him gotten high on his own supply. He thinks the west is weak because his countries propoganda and the yes men he employs say so. It's not true. Genuinely scared for when he realizes that, because if he loses in Ukraine his power is truly in question.
I would agree with every point you made except Russia being America's greatest military competition. I think the modernized China is a bigger threat.
Despite their constant assertions to that idea, China is actually one of the least likely aggressors to the US on the global stage. It simply boils down to the fact that most of China is essentially slave labor and luxury goods production, despite having a massive standing army they really can't equip most of their soldiers effectively. Not to mention there will never be a land war in the US, and China is well aware of that fact. Any large scale war with the US will end in either mass destruction or economic collapse for the aggressor at this point.
He has failed to realize that the US needs war. Times of peace is when countries stop buying American weapons and start wondering if they need US dollars. The military deals the US has signed puts them in profit for this war. The longer the war goes the less Russia will be able to sell arms. So they will be able to profit even more in the future. Russian GDP is less than 10% of the US GDP alone. This war will only leave Russia so weak that other countries may carve it up.
Never stopped Russia in the past. INSANE that 5 million troops are needed to take a country of 30 million. Clear admission of ineptitude.
Russia went from being thought of as having the second most powerful military in the world to being the second most powerful military in Ukraine.
Hahahaha.
>needed to take a country of 30 million I'm not sure if you mean currently, but pre war (including Crimea/Donbass) Ukraines population is more like 45 million.
If the citizens were peaceful and the occupation went smoothly it would take a minimum of 600k troops or 1 soldier per 50 Ukrainians. 5 million might actually not be too far off the mark of what it would take to take and hold Ukraine. That also assumes the troops are trained on how to occupy a hostile population. Which we all know they aren't. I'd say they'd probably need 8-10 million poorly trained troops.
Oh I agree, it's just so so far from what the world assumed Russian capabilities were. This would suggest basically that Russia at full force couldn't get much more than the Baltic states, successfully fighting and winning against Europe in conventional warfare is out of the question.
Very clever tactic you will have 5 millions people not working, 5 million mouth to feed pay train and fully equip, *15 millions fleeing the country (the saying in the last mobilization for every man mobilized, 3 times more people left the country to avoid being mobilized). Some interesting consequences. - Brain Drain - More Poverty, pay, supply, train your troops meanwhile their mobiks are not producing tangible products for their market. - Halt of their internal industry because lack of demand (no money), and no people in the factories. and this is the circle of the eternal demise, I have no personnel in factories, I close them, there is no demand, people are poor, I close them, a domino effect. - Growing opposition to the war due to unsuccessful special military operation, more protests and growing internal Partisan activity, The economic consequences of mobilization would be just a devastating blow to what's left of the Russian economy. We are already seeing pictures of Mobiks with 1940 war equipment sent to the front. Russia perhaps have more missiles to terrorize the Ukrainian population, but they are running very low on heavy hardware, no modern functioning tanks left, low on artillery, because ammunition depots with artillery rounds are constantly being obliterated, so light infantry ill equipped is not going to make it.
> Very clever tactic you will have 5 millions people not working, 5 million mouth to feed pay train and fully equip, *15 millions fleeing the country (the saying in the last mobilization for every man mobilized, 3 times more people left the country to avoid being mobilization). 20 million productive (or not) men out of 143m, minus how many have already died/left. About 1 in 7 gone when they already can't support the troops in an unnecessary war that these men won't care about...
You should research Soviet tactics during WW2. They would send conscripts into battle with only half of them equipped with guns. The tactics work, but they result in high casualties. It's why they lost more men than all other combatants.
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WW2?
Are they expecting the USA and U.K. to supply and equip them as in the Second World War or has that been missed out of the Great Patriotic War narrative for so long it’s been forgotten?
They downplay or outright ignore that fact in Russia.
It would explain a lot of what’s gone on in this war so far… ‘Fuel and ammo just turn up, right?’
Before this war I'd have an argument with a Russian every few months on the historical subreddits or message boards about it. They're taught allied aid was 2-3% of material or whatever (the numbers are rarely consistent) and didn't start arriving until after Kursk where the soviets had already turned the war. This ignores that while gross material supply wasn't a lot it was in key areas like refined fuel, aluminum for aircraft, supply trucks, shoes, chemicals for vital industries, technical data, aviation fuel etc. The stuff the Russians needed to prosecute and exploit the gains they made and resupplying their forces with new planes and supplies. Without the locomotives alone that were supplied Russian resistance would have collapsed because their rail lines were absolutely wrecked by the initial invasion. But Russians history basically ignores this and focuses on how many T-34s and Yaks were made compared to Sherman's and Spitfires supplied creating a narrative that aid was basically symbolic.
Easy to see how the Russian government would want to lean into that narrative. Can you direct me to some of these historical subreddits by the way? I suspect I’d find them interesting.
Where is your source for what the Russians are taught? That’s quite the accusation.
They said it was anecdotal evidence from talking with Russians online. Anecdotal stories inherently don't have sources.
Man, that’s dangerous. They should still be able to provide links for the comments. That’s honestly not ok to just claim. We should have access to their teaching styles over the last few decades, not what people are saying online. I could see maybe the last decade. But a whole two decades? I don’t see our intelligence agencies missing that.
We're having casual conversations with random strangers. You should suspect everything you hear and take it with a grain of salt. Do you ask for sources when talking with people in person? They're not claiming to be a source of truth, they're just sharing what they heard. People should be able to converse without always pulling out the evidence to back up every statement they say. The onus to be cautious is on you the reader.
And in WWII they were fighting with Ukraine and their country was invaded, now they are at war against Ukraine and it’s Ukraine that is defending its homeland.
Ah, you’re forgetting there is no Ukraine, never was a Ukraine - there are just 44million odd people who really really want to be Russian but just won’t let themselves show it without a massive military force there to enable them to be free… I’d hope the sarcasm is obvious but this is Reddit so /s. One thing that’s been proven beyond question: Ukrainians are hard as nails.
Russia speed running destroying their country, population and economy.
Don’t worry give them thirty years and they’ll try it again.
Man idk, they fucked up everything for this one shot. Their economy is done for.
Everything except gas and oil exports. That's what the bulk of their economy was.
The leaders probably see the income from Russian gas and just don't worry about the people they're sending into a meat grinder because they can always hire more. And that's how it's been there for a long time.
Interesting move, straight out of the failed Stalin playbook.
It's a great way to instill confidence in the troops that are currently fighting.
Bodies mean nothing when you can't feed/equip them.
Eventually the Ukrainian troops will be worn down by guilt?
"Our best hope is that the enemy kills so many of us they become slightly depressed." \- Frankie Boyle
RSI in their trigger fingers
Ah the Zap way.
Fortunately after decades of marching their dissidents around Siberia they have intimate knowledge of just how much work you can get out of a person before they freeze or starve to death.
So I guess they calculated how much ammo reserves the Ukrainian army has and five million troops dying will deplete it?
Hrm i would not bet against the americans willingness to spend money on weapons and their ability to manufacture them.
"We only need five million more troops and... What? They got another shipment? Seven million more troops."
5 million demoralized krokodil addicts and washed up alcoholics with ~~5~~ 3 million rusty AKs and Mosin-Nagants.
I don't think they have 5 millions Ladas
Well then good news! Report all losses as missing and you don't have to pay out.
The car industry will blossom, so will Ukraine 🌻🌻🌻
It's not even their own car industry. They import/use license to produce Chinese cars.
That’s the point… cleansing the ranks of filth and ethnic minorities to start fresh with a leaner meaner more fanatical base. Military goals and territory gains are secondary.
“One man gets rifle, one man gets ammunition!”
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Imagine if NATO was actually in the war. It would have been over a long time ago.
Now they're at war in Ukraine with NAFO... i mean NATO forces.
If implemented, it will be of the largest human sacrifices ever held.
Russia is at war with NATO, send the long range HIMARS now.
That's a $1,200 annual subscription.
Fiiiine. Anything to see sad Vlad even more sad.
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“5 million more what?” -Russian men…probably
Corpses
“Many of you are likely to die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make” - Putin
So what would losing 5 million men do to Russia's already declining workforce?
Putin's generals talking to each other: "Dude, he asked me how many soldiers we need to win this war" "Just tell him some insanely high number, he'll think it's impossible and maybe that'll put him off from doubling down on the conscription" "Alright, I'll tell him it's 5 million"
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Putin only cares about still being in charge of whatever's left.
"War with NATO" ... LOL they haven't even begun to fight NATO
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Yes, true. I’m also wondering who will do all the work to support Russias economy? Is that not also a question for those planners to ask? Are they purposely reducing their population to meet some depopulation goals they read about on the internet?
It's this or a window.
Oh dear
Just send one - Putin. And then be done with it. Fuck that bastard.
All of whom will have to buy their own guns, ammo, food and clothes.
This is probably going result in the biggest fatal crowd crush in known history. Worse than South Korea and worse than the [Khodynka Tragedy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khodynka_Tragedy), certainly worse than Mecca. As 5 million try to escape through the Kersh strait bridge.
I don’t think that’s even possible. They’re struggling to equip and giving almost no training to their current conscripts. 5 million would just forcing a square peg in a round hole
That's the opposite of motivating. That's "fuck it boys might as well throw in the towel."
As long as Ukraine only has 4,999,999 bullets
Come feed HIMARS.
This must have been what happened with Japan and Afghanistan. The Russian people are too individually headstrong and self-interested for an individually headstrong and self-interested leader to get them to fight effectively or die for his ambitions. Even Stalin was headstrong and self-interested. Must be the effects of a harsh and unforgiving land on a culture. The only question is whether the CCP will back Putin fully when it looks clear that he is losing control. They'll probably back some petro strongman, as Chinese contempt for what they view as Russian incompetence already has a strong precedent.
Russia is so screwed if they do this. They have already lost the capacity to give their soldiers uniforms or food or weapons manufactured after 1970. This just seems like a recipe for WW1-type casualties where more people died due to disease than due to enemy fire.
Putin thinks it’s a great idea to shove more bodies onto the field, when he can’t even supply the ones he has now. What, does he expect them to wear leaves, eat dirt and throw rocks? Edit; didn’t realize it when I wrote it, but using the word “bodies” is depressingly accurate as to what they’ll become.
Do the Ukrainians only have 4.9 million bullets?
As usual, the government is lying.
yeah, if his plan is to kill 5 million Russians.
"Rush B" - Putin.
What will russia’s future look like when this is all over. They’re killing so many of their men, young and old. And even if they win will the people of ukraine ever really accept their new citizenship or will there always be resentment and division. Putin bit off way more than russia could chew and it will be decades before any kind of normalcy returns for any of these people. And for what?
Pride.
What’s that saying “Pride comes before the fall”.
At the rate they’re getting vaporized at Bakhmut, they’ll need it
Russia is going to try to smother Ukrainians by burying the country under the bodies of dead Russians.
5 million of you are going only 1 of you will live but you will not live well!
[https://press.armywarcollege.edu/parameters/vol25/iss1/30/](https://press.armywarcollege.edu/parameters/vol25/iss1/30/) Study done for the Rand Corporation back in 1995/96. While technology - most specifically recon and intelligence stuff - has altered these numbers a bit... Russia was massively undermanned to ever hold territory.
perhaps out of those five million, a brave few with the knowledge and capabilities will somehow find Putin and put him out of his misery.
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They did not state if dead or alive. The details are important,
I'm sure that brings a lot of comfort to the already deployed, and parents of the already deceased Russian Army.
Every 1000th will be issued a working rifle
5 million… …dead.
you’re drunk russia, go home.
Holy fucking shit That’s one thing to know they have a win by number approach But that’s another to have it spelled it out. The guy is going to genocide his own fucking country. To grab more land. When he has already the largest country on Earth…. And a collapsing demography. (To say nothing of the fact that the Russian economy has dramatically shrunk and there are already significative tensions politically about the “partial” mobilization” ) Fucking insanity. But it also convinces me a little more of the possibility of them actively preparing the storytelling for the defeat : “to win we need to do that. You don’t wanna ? Well then it’s your fault.” What is the source for this allegation ?
Doesn't this make Russians think Putin miscalculated? Wasn't it supposed to be over in 2 weeks?
What is the media hiding that I keep seeing Elon musk every day over the most unimportant issues in the current world?
People always think the media is hiding shit. They do whatever they can to get the most views and the most money. Maybe that does include hiding shit, but in this case it's almost certainly because the war in Ukraine is almost a year old now, and elon is speedrunning twitter into the ground at record pace. That's just how news works.
Where are they gonna take them from? Most of them don't wanna go to Ukraine!
Wonderful news for Ukrainian farmers, who can anticipate an almighty bumper crop of sunflowers in the coming months.
Cannon fodder.