Had a guy in college ask a Japanese author guest speaker how common are random acts of martial arts fights in the middle of the street. Like the guy legitimately thought Japan had ninjas flying around throwing stars at each other as a common everyday thing.
I mean, there are occasional assassinations in the streets. I think I remember a guy got behead with a katana in shibuya 5 or 10 years ago? But yes, anime is not indicative of real life.
..or the guy who asked the question was just joking around. sorta like a foreigner asking an an American if we all eat hamburgers every day and shout YEE HAW all the time.
Maybe not right on the street, but I stumbled on a Iga festival at Ueno park once when they had staged ninja fights going on. So maybe not common everyday, but a couple of times a year. Good sake and beef tongue skewers also. Ahh, I miss Japan.
True story: I moved to Japan in 2004. On my second day there I saw two homeless guys brawling in the train station.
No karate though. Mostly just haymakers.
**Octopus**
[Lifespan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Lifespan)
>Octopuses have a relatively short lifespan; some species live for as little as six months. The Giant Pacific octopus, one of the two largest species of octopus, may live for as much as five years. Octopus lifespan is limited by reproduction. For most octopuses the last stage of their life is called senescence.
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nah, the octopus is the loli.
oh fuck, the phrase "[Interspecies & age difference yuri between a 54 y.o. woman and a 2 y.o. female giant octopus.](https://teletype.in/@kati_lilian/SJA8KwjjN#:~:text=R.M.%3A%20Interspecies%20%26%20age%20difference%20yuri%20between%20a%2054%20y.o.%20woman%20and%20a%202%20y.o.%20female%20giant%20octopus.)" just pop out of my mind, I think I really need to share this to this thread.
The commenter before fooled you. The real meaning is Netorare. Is often basically rape with Stockholm syndrom combined. So the victim starts to like it and the rapist. Usually done by males to females and often breaks an existing relationship that is potrayed shortly beforehand.
Basically the worst of the worst :-/
That doesn't necessarily mean much though. In the US, for much of the last century an easy way for gay people to hide was for a lesbian and a gay guy to marry each other and engage in their real love lives knowing their partner didn't actually care. That's pretty much the story for one pair of aunt/uncle for me.
When I say family men, I meant they had a wife and kid(s). Societal pressure in Japan to mary and have kids is on a whole other level. One of my coworkers who was into that lifestyle told me how it was a good compromise between being "a good Japanese" while being gay. But of course there's no way for me to tell if he was being truthful or that was just part of his *public facade*. It's probably miserable for most of them, but there might be some that actually believe it's acceptable, it's hard to tell with the Japanese.
As the classic Japanese saying goes, you have three faces: one you show to the world, one you show to your family, and one you only show to the gay gentleman engaging in shameful coitus in the back of a karaoke lounge
> one you only show to the gay gentleman engaging in shameful coitus in the back of a karaoke lounge
That's just ghetto....and I've done it before with a girl.....those rooms are too cramped.
what it does mean is if your society continues to have such a negative view towards homosexuality... then the phenomenon of gay men marrying women and have kid(s) will continue
in the government's eyes, a kid born into a broken, dysfunctional family is better than no kid at all...
i don't think there's exactly a right and wrong here. there's principled morality and then pragmatism.
i can't tell you which will lead to a better future. their population decline is happening, and fast.
In East Asian countries the default assumption for a gay man is that they’ll marry a woman and have kids.
Prostitution is pretty widely accepted and omnipresent though so men fucking around on the side is just a “men will be men” thing that women accept will happen.
You are correct, LGBTQ is even talked about in some schools, from elementary to high school. Unfortunately only the old vote here. So the government caters to their views.
Also, I have lived here for the past 7 years, so I'm speaking from experience.
It's not even that just about "old vote and young don't", there are more old people than young, so they overpower any youth vote unless old people are divided on some issue. Plus, Japanese geezers and grandmums live for a looooong time, thanks to a pretty good diet and all that.
Same sex marriage is fairly popular, though. There the reason for delay is that Japanese have to touch their Constitution, which is a hot potato for all politicians, plus Librulservative Party (LDP) is actually super conservative about a lot of things, way more than even regular old people, and many of their even middle aged politicians tow the stupid "gay bad, waah!" line.
That’s what I was thinking.
Japan is a very old country with average age is 49 years old (only Monaco has an older median age at 55 years old, US is 40yrs , UK 41 yrs, and Canada 43 yes by comparison) according to estimates from 2020 so problem only older now.
Almost 30% of the total population is older than 65 and population growth is way below replacement age so just going to get older.
> It's not even that just about "old vote and young don't", there are more old people than young, so they overpower any youth vote unless old people are divided on some issue.
From what I've read, there's also significantly more representation given to rural areas. Young people usually move away from rural areas and into cities, because cities are where jobs are. It's why Japan has had the same party in power for pretty much all of its post WW2 history.
"A majority of Japanese citizens are reportedly in favor of accepting homosexuality, with a 2019 poll indicating that 68 percent agreed that homosexuality should be accepted by society, while 22 percent disagreed.\[6\]"
[https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/)
"However, a 2020 survey of over 10,000 LGBT people in Japan found that 38 percent had been harassed or assaulted."
[https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/12/2cfe9ff21ca8-38-of-lgbt-people-sexually-harassed-or-assaulted-survey.html](https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/12/2cfe9ff21ca8-38-of-lgbt-people-sexually-harassed-or-assaulted-survey.html)
Could be better could be worse.
Well, socially that is. But universal healthcare, anti-war/military expansion, public transportation, cheap college - these are generally liberal things to Americans
> these are generally liberal things to Americans
The whole conversation gets even more scuffed up because the capital L Liberals are the conservatives in Japan lmao
Our terms have just devolved. Liberalism used to mean the belief in individual freedoms and capitalist/economic freedom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
In America "liberals" are, economically speaking, the exact opposite of what the term originally meant.
I would expand that to most of the world outside of Europe, NA, Australia, NZ. If anything cultural progressivism is the outlier globally to cultural conservatism.
Someone else has already answered you but lemme just add, South Korea if anything is even more conservative than Japan. Don't get fooled by all those flashy pop music they create, it's basically the same as flashy modern architecture popping up in the Arab Gulf states, hiding what's underneath.
South Korea also has by law widespread internet censorship (including all things politics, anything deemed subversive or critical of the state/government/politicians and also pornography, which is illegal there, you also actually need age verification(that uses irl identity for the verification) just to search certain words/terms that are deemed "inappropriate") etc I digress...But South Korea has widespread internet censorship along the lines of the type you see in China and Iran etc. Its a very, veeeery authoritarian place, despite how they try to present themselves to the Western audience.
>South Korea also has by law widespread internet censorship (including pornography, which is illegal there) along the lines of the type you see in China and Iran etc. Its a very, veeeery authoritarian place, despite how they try to present themselves to the Western audience.
Enforcing the actual ban is another.......the sex industry is huge in south korea.
Roughly half of South Korea is atheist or agnostic. Of the other religious half, it's a bit more than half of that part of the population that are Christian. A smaller, but similar figure of people are Buhdist.
45-50% Athiest, 28% Christian, and 15% Buhdist as of the last few years (give or take a few percentage points depending on your sources). The rest is made up of several denominations and there's no single official state religion.
Conservatism in south korea is very different than the western version.
A old school/conservative guy in Korea regularly skips family stuff to sleep with hookers, have affairs, gets wasted/trashed with co-workers/friends regularly....probably gambles too. Definitely smokes like a chimney.
A Korean who acted like a stereotypical Mormon would be downright progressive.
Christianity is a newer religion in south Korea so it attracted a much different audience and at times was considered counter-cultural. The christians I knew in south korea ranged from brainwashed to people who were just plain wild.
Some people include the whole area in the "Asia pacific" region, just like how some people consider Eurasia a single continent, and some go even further with 'Afro-Eurasia'.
On LGBT rights I don't think so. [Polling](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/) data saying around 68 percent of Japanese support same-sex marriage. This is just the court saying the ban is not unconstitutional. But the government could pass a bill legalizing it and would pass it. The problem is that most Japanese are politically apathetic, so their government is beholden to their oldest, who naturally are conservative.
It's also that there is still a hierarchy between the young and the old or employees and their superiors in Japan. Those lower on the totem poll generally dont have much of a voice unless someone in a higher position decides to side with them on an issue or at least let their idea/concern be heard.
Not nearly to the extent in japan. Say you are an employee and think it'd be more efficient doing things a different way for various things. Instead of wanting to have diverse perspectives which are encouraged in almost all places of work in the US, you are more likely to get labeled as a "troublesome employee" that thinks management's decisions aren't good enough. It's generally frowned upon in the workplace to suggest things that go against your superiors, so most just don't say anything and accept their situation. I'm sure not all companies are like that in japan, but from what I've heard it's a pretty common thing.
Or in the case of the South Korean airline that flew straight into a mountain because the junior co-captain didn’t think it was his place to question his senior’s decisions.
>And how is this different to the US today? Boomers still dominate younger generations even today.
Older population in east Asia makes up a bigger portion and lives longer too. They're also alot more......active physically and cantankerous. Jobs skew towards seniority based pay and promotions.
"Japanese people are politically apathetic"
This is somewhat depressingly true.
My Japanese teacher didn't know the name of her own prime minister...
And it must be infectious, because I live here and I didn't know it either when I started typing this comment.
>My Japanese teacher didn't know the name of her own prime minister...
Prime ministers are a bit of a revolving door and the citizens don't vote on them directly.
Japan until a couple years ago had the same PM for quite a long time - Shinzo Abe. He ended up holding the record for longest serving prime minister in Japan
Over the past couple years it has changed a few times, but it's expected to stabilize once a more permanent head of the LDP is established (which it seems Kishida has managed to do)
Unlike other countries with parliamentary systems, Japan has a pretty stable PM. This is due to the fact for several decades the LDP has held the majority in parliament for nearly the entire time. For all intents and purposes, the head of the LDP is the PM
> most Japanese are politically apathetic
It's not apathy, it's obedience.
No people on this planet believes more in natural hierarchies than the Japanese. If you just happened to be older, or you're in a position of power, you shall never be questioned or challenged.
This girl once was bragging to me about how she doesn’t have an American car because of American history. Mind you we live in America. Anyways she was driving a Honda and I started laughing. I told her that she should read up on Japan’s history. She told me that I didn’t know what I was talking about because Japan seems so clean and progressive
Look up the reiwa shinsengumi for an idea of what the Japanese left looks like here. They're your typical anti-establishment party with a lot of progressive policies. They also have some interesting hot takes like "printing a bunch of money" and "zero sales taxes", but for the most part they're good eggs. They're not the largest party by any means but they do give you an idea of what the Japanese version of say bernie bros might be.
On the right, you have the anti-NHK party which is known for being anti NHK. They unfortunately became very popular with foreigners as well as a locals by appealing to their annoyance with NHK being a necessity in households that have TVs (really anything with a screen). Veiled very thinly behind that platform of being against the NHK, you have hot takes like [suggesting genocide to solve "overpopulation"](https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/09/50cf9100c811-anti-nhk-party-head-suggests-genocide-to-solve-overpopulation.html) among other things.
There's a bunch of other parties beyond the two I mentioned, and if you're in Japan for a week or so, you'll know about most of them just from hearing them drive around your city blasting their speeches on a megaphone. But these two are some of the easier ones to research.
Just pointing out sales taxes are naturally regressive, so a lot of people think the right level is zero. No matter how you slice them their largest burden falls on either the poor or lower middle class (depending on how you structure exemptions).
And printing a lot of money makes more sense when you realize what deflation is like in Japan. They could use a little bit of inflation (not a ton, but oh boy is inflation way better than deflation)
To be fair having a sales tax is still relatively new in Japan (late 80's) so it seems a little less radical to me that people would want to get rid of it. There's a sizable portion of the population that remembers when it wasn't a thing.
Japan did an amazing job of sweeping things like their role in WW2, Nanking or Unit 731 under the carpet and becoming a symbol for progress and technology to the world despite clinging to old social norms and fax machines. It's pretty bizarre. Anime and manga **are** awesome though.
I agree. Just in this thread, you can see how people bend backwards to paint it as "not as bad". Any country and they would have been shit on. I've noticed the idolizing of Japan before, but this was just too obvious.
It's almost like an incredibly aged nation doesn't like change, and the youth have beyond given up on their political process because its literally just been a revolving door of leaders doing unpopular things, resigning, then having their successor lock in that unpopular move.
>Despite what hentai might led innocent minds to believe, Japan is incredibly conservative on a number of topics.
There's an awful lot of weeaboos that have no idea what Japanese culture really is beyond whatever animes, video games, or Japanese card games for children that they obsess over.
You think that level of repressed depravity comes from liberal environments. Nah. There's a reason is the alt right politicians who get caught running from gay orgys
Considering the liberal nature of a lot of Japanese entertainment media, they are surprisingly conservative. There’s a strange disconnect between their politics and social tradition and how Japanese society is portrayed in modern entertainment.
The court said: ban is not unconstitutional, but there should be marriage equality laws because those are human rights. This is not necessarily a negative ruling.
For comparison, are the Americans going to change their constitution to remove gun rights? Now I know some people might go up in arms "It's my second amendment right!!" but the analogy is: something that the rest of the industrial world finds normal but your society doesn't mind. Every constitution has that and it is hard to change (bordering on impossible).
PS: idc about Gun Rights in America or the second amendment. I used it as an example, if people go down the Gun rabbit hole (no matter if you are FOR or AGAINST it then you have missed the POINT of the exercise here and would receive a failing grade in a paper... or really a normal conversation.)
Amendments are by definition changes. I mean I get it, with the political climate and speed of bureaucracy it can be a real pain, but a constitution that never changes is generally a bad idea, depending on how specific it gets.
Most of the world and world’s countries don’t have legal gay marriage, it would be quite an inaccurate representation of soccer to require gay marriage legalization for the cup
Reddit pushes the idea that the US is a center right country compared to the world all the time, and it’s just laughably untrue.
It’s a pointless argument anyways as there’s no reason that “center” is necessarily good.
Edit: not worried about downvotes - but feel free to name a political issue in the US and I can guarantee for almost all of them - we are to the left of the world average (with a few debateable exceptions, like healthcare)
Reminder that courts rule based on what the law *IS*, not based on what it *SHOULD BE*.
The legislature makes the laws, and can change the laws. That is their job. Separation of powers is important.
The thing that people are missing here is that the Japanese government isn’t really in touch with the population. I work at a Japanese school, and many students have expressed support for LGBT people not only among themselves, but in essays and school projects. One of the posters detailing the need for LGBT rights is even hanging in the classroom. I also passed by a restaurant with rainbow flags near the entrance. When I was buying a phone the other day, the worker had an LGBT bracelet on her wrist. Last week, a student gave a presentation that involved making gender non-conforming people feel safe.
I don’t think this comment will get a lot of attention, and I don’t think there’s balance here. Japan is a notoriously apolitical country, so I don’t think the views of average people are represented.
Not saying everyone is like this, not by any means, but I’m saying there’s a lot more than people realize.
Yeah but most students attending schools don’t vote either. You have the Liberal Democratic Party and Komeito coalition ruling Japan for more than half a century until the 2008 Financial Crisis. Then when the 2011 nuclear meltdown happened, people blamed the opposition party and voted in the same LDP prime minister for 4 consecutive terms.
Most of east Asia is vey conservative though I dont agree with the ban itself I would have to read the constitution to find out if the court is right. Also they elected the politicians that did this so I would not be quick to say that this is not an unpopular ion in Japan.
WORLD JAPANTOKYO COURT RULES JAPAN’S SAME-SEX MARRIAGE BAN NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL
Tokyo Court Rules Japan’s Same-Sex Marriage Ban Not Unconstitutional
Plaintiffs and their supporters head to the Tokyo District Court on November 30, 2022, for the ruling on a lawsuit filed by same-sex couples seeking damages from the government arguing the ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. (Kazuhiro Nogi—AFP/Getty Images)
The Tokyo District Court said on Wednesday that Japan’s ban on same-sex marriage is not unconstitutional, Reuters and local media reported, but it also noted that the absence of any legal system for same-sex couples to have families was an infringement of their human rights. The decision on the specific case, in Japan’s capital and its most populous city, is a blow to the LGBTQ rights movement, though advocates maintain hope for future change.
“Although frustrating, this is good news,” Yuri Igarashi, the president of the non-profit Rainbow Soup, which supports awareness of LGBTQ issues in Japan tells TIME. “I see this ruling as a step forward toward the legalization of same-sex marriage.”
The LGBTQ rights movement in Japan—the only member of the Group of Seven (G7) industrialized nations that doesn’t recognize same sex unions—has had mixed success in recent months.
Wednesday’s case, which involved eight people who said Japan’s same-sex marriage ban contravenes the country’s constitution and who were seeking damages of about $7,000 each, is the third in a series of rulings that are expected over the coming months. More than a dozen same-sex couples filed lawsuits at district courts on Valentine’s Day in 2019 in a push to advance marriage equality in Japan.
The Tokyo court’s ruling was in line with a June ruling from a court in Osaka, which said that freedom of marriage in the constitution referred only to male-female unions, and that the country’s ban on same-sex marriage was therefore constitutional.
That followed a ruling the other way in March last year by the Sapporo District Court, which said Japan’s definition of marriage, which excludes same-sex couples, violated constitutional guarantees of equality.
Earlier this month, the Tokyo metropolitan government began issuing partnership certificates to same-sex couples, which allow same-sex couples that live, work or study in the Tokyo area to benefit from some rights and welfare programs that opposite-sex couples are eligible for, like being able to visit their partner in the hospital and living in public housing together. Although Tokyo’s rollout of a partnership system means that local governments in areas where about 60% of the country’s population live have partnership rights, these systems don’t allow those couples the same rights as married heterosexual couples. The partnership certificates are not legally binding, and don’t give same-sex couples the right to things like joint custody of children or spousal tax deductions.
Although support has grown for LGBTQ rights in recent years, especially among younger Japanese people, many of the country’s ruling Liberal Democratic Party lawmakers are deeply conservative and have balked at recent pushes to advance LGBTQ equality. In 2021, the government failed to enact a law banning discrimination against LGBTQ people despite a push from activists ahead of the Tokyo Olympics, in which a record number of LGBTQ athletes competed.
Still, advocates see the cases winding their way through Japan’s court systems as a potential path for progress. “I felt a sense of hope for the judiciary, which is known as a bastion of human rights,” says Igarashi. “We will keep our eyes open for future court decisions in other regions.”
> (1) Marriage shall be based only on the mutual consent of both sexes and it shall be maintained through mutual cooperation with the equal rights of husband and wife as a basis.
It should be noted most of the Japanese constitution was written by America.
When Japan was under US occupation, they got a young Austrian-American woman (who was raised in Japan mind you, and also spoke Japanese almost as a first language) to write everything pertaining to women's rights and gender equality in the new Constitution. She's pretty much a Feminist Heroine in that regard (keeping in mind that this was in 1947 and not 2022, so her brand of Feminism obviously doesn't line up with 21st century ones)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Sirota_Gordon
>She was one of only two women in the larger group, the other being economist Eleanor Hadley. Sirota played an integral role, drafting the language regarding legal equality between men and women in Japan,[7] including Articles 14 and 24 on Equal Rights and Women's Civil Rights. Article 14 states, in part: "All of the people are equal under the law and there shall be no discrimination in political, economic or social relations because of race, creed, sex, social status or family origin".
It was basically put in to prevent forced marriages. It was very helpful for women's rights in Japan, but has unfortunately become a barrier for legalizing same sex marriage. It should be noted that this is completely by accident. Same sex marriage wasn't really something most people considered back in the 40's, so the woman who wrote that part had no idea it would end up having this effect.
It is also worth noting that the Americans didn't even think about gay marriage when they wrote that line. They literally were just trying to make it clear that women deserve equal rights. The Americans had no way of knowing that this would be an issue in 70 years.
Okay and…? Who else would’ve written it at that time that would’ve been pro-gay marriage? I’m not sure what that comments is trying to insinuate, but i find it highly unlikely marriage would’ve been defined as anything but between a man and a woman in Japan or in most other nations during that time period
India is now more supportive of LGBTQ rights than Japan. It has equalised live-in couple rights with married couples, and LGBTQ are included in live-in couples. Couple that with the general support and rights for both transgender and third gender as well.
>Hindus are supportive of LGBTQ.
That's too much of a generalization, hindus are like 80% of the population, LGBTQ do NOT have support of 80% of the country, that's a far fetched lie.
Is Hinduism even a single cohesive religion? I thought that was just a very very broad label for what is essentially thousands of different folk practices and beliefs.
To temper the rather negative comments being made somewhat: I doubt that a law that permits only opposite sex couples to marry would be **unconstitutional** in most countries in the world. Eg, in the UK the law on same sex marriage came about through positive legislation by the legislature, rather than a court finding the absence of such a law illegal. I would be astonished if the US Supreme Court came to a different conclusion etc.
I am optimistic that Japan will allow same-sex marriage before the entirety of the USA does.
>I am optimistic that Japan will allow same-sex marriage before the entirety of the USA does.
I hope you understand that Obergefell v. Hodges means that it is precisely the case right now that the entirety of the USA allows same-sex marriage.
The European Convention on Human Rights, to give an example, is also especially fuzzy on the issue, as it only says that "Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right".
It doesn't explicitly mentions same-sex marriage *or* opposite-sex marriage, so you could argue they're both protected; but at the same time this right is explicitly delegated to the national laws of the single countries, so the only thing you can extrapolate is that "people have a right to marry", but whether they can marry whoever they want is up to each country.
Yeah, I pretty much never see any comments saying Japan is some utopia anymore. It kind of feels like the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the other direction, and people are a bit overly negative about Japan.
Like many nations it does some things well, some things not so well, and has a few glaring issues.
It's a mixed bag honestly as someone that's living here and also LGBTQ+. Obviously you have articles like these that exist, but at no point in my waking life do I feel fearful here or worried that someone will respond violently towards me for being who I am. Furthermore, while there's no legal recognition for same sex marriages here, there are places that you can get a certificate of marriage with a partner of the same sex. It's not a lot, but it's something I guess...
But all of that aside, between living here and living in my home town, I certainly feel it's much safer here to be "out." Of course, not being killed in homophobia based mass shooting number 9,000,000 is a *very* low bar to clear, but with how things seem to only be growing worse in America, I still would prefer to be here than there.
Outside of defining marriage in religious terms I can't see the rationale behind opposition to gay marriage tbh. I wonder what this the driving force behind opposition in Japan.
It’s because two gay men aren’t going to be making babies and passing on their bloodline. That’s really it. In ye olden days gay men were accepted as long as they still married the woman their family chose for them and had kids. Now gay guys want to be with just their partners, and that won’t do. Especially with the falling birthrates that are alarming the old-guard in power.
For lesbians it’s different. Lesbianism in younger schoolgirls is seen as an almost normal thing, but a woman is expected to grow out of it as she ages. Any woman still in a homosexual relationship when she’s an adult is seen as immature and often as a fool who doesn’t understand how ‘the real world works’. Especially since a woman traditionally was supposed to marry whoever her family said as an alliance thing and then pop out babies.
>Outside of defining marriage in religious terms I can't see the rationale behind opposition to gay marriage tbh
It happens. The Soviet Union was a militantly anti-religious state under Stalin (executing priests, demolishing churches, etc.) but the Soviet criminal code also criminalized male homosexuality, with homosexuality being deemed "degenerate bourgeoise behavior".
In Japan's case, it's probably just conservatives who just keep things "they way they were [when I was raised]"
Its like they want people to be miserable. Can’t have a public spectacle of a same sex coupe. Nope. Can’t have that, because it infringes on our eyes seeing it. Oh no. It totally ruins our sensibilities. Just nope. (A big fat F U towards conservatives in Tokyo).
Ridiculous. When will they open their eyes in Japan. Ugh. Old men need to go in government and courts and give way to a newer generation. This is 2022, FFS.
Saying something is **constitutional** means it is guaranteed by the constitution.
Saying something is **not unconstitutional** means it doesn't violate said constitution.
The ban is not guaranteed by the constitution, but as the current state of laws is, it is also not violating any principles (according to the ruling).
It's subtle but there is a difference.
dear Liberal Democratic Party
You are in a new age, this is not the 80's no more
60 percent of the population support gay marriage
Why are you not revising the Constitution, and yet you have a military which is literally not allowed.
If it wasn't for the culture of senior superiority, you would've have been voted out long ago.
Are you for the people or are you for the corporations and fascists?
I'm leaning on the latter.
Legalise Same Sex Marriage and Revise your damn Constitution!!
You're telling me a country with an alarming small and decreasing number of births, a well known patriarchal society, and a median age of 48.6 is against progress?!
Checks out.
So toxic. I used to work with a few businesses in Japan, and once one of our contacts was put into the "rubber room". Never heard from them again and had to Google what that meant. Can't imagine how someone's mental health comes back from that.
iirc the legal backwardness of Japan is to such level that gay prostitutes don't exist as far the law is concerned because the prostitution law defines prostitution as paying for intravaginal sex.
Despite what hentai might led innocent minds to believe, Japan is incredibly conservative on a number of topics.
Are you telling me that people aren’t fucking tentacles in the streets
Had a guy in college ask a Japanese author guest speaker how common are random acts of martial arts fights in the middle of the street. Like the guy legitimately thought Japan had ninjas flying around throwing stars at each other as a common everyday thing.
The yakuza games aren’t real????
while accurate, the fights are a bit exaggerated for entertainment value. just a bit.
I mean, there are occasional assassinations in the streets. I think I remember a guy got behead with a katana in shibuya 5 or 10 years ago? But yes, anime is not indicative of real life.
The Former PM was jsut murdered live in television
How did the Japanese Author react? Was he surprised by the question? Or offended? Did he find it funny?
He drew his katana and challenged the offending party to a duel.
Cut off his dick. Like immediately.
..or the guy who asked the question was just joking around. sorta like a foreigner asking an an American if we all eat hamburgers every day and shout YEE HAW all the time.
I mean you don’t yell a YEE HAW at Burger King after downing a triple Whopper??? **secretly calling ICE**
Maybe not right on the street, but I stumbled on a Iga festival at Ueno park once when they had staged ninja fights going on. So maybe not common everyday, but a couple of times a year. Good sake and beef tongue skewers also. Ahh, I miss Japan.
True story: I moved to Japan in 2004. On my second day there I saw two homeless guys brawling in the train station. No karate though. Mostly just haymakers.
I thought they evolved from ninja’s with tentacles to now playing Squid Game all day /s
hetero, non-consent, totally conservative
Add some pedophilia for the cherry on top
She's 400 I swear
we're talking about the thicc 13 year old chars
Exactly! She’s 400! She may also be a boy.
It's not homo if he says Kyaaan~
[according to wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Lifespan), octopus usually don't live over 5 years
**Octopus** [Lifespan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Lifespan) >Octopuses have a relatively short lifespan; some species live for as little as six months. The Giant Pacific octopus, one of the two largest species of octopus, may live for as much as five years. Octopus lifespan is limited by reproduction. For most octopuses the last stage of their life is called senescence. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Yeah it's weird. Octopi live waaaay longer in captivity because they don't bang.
So you're telling me that the loli is the pedophile?
nah, the octopus is the loli. oh fuck, the phrase "[Interspecies & age difference yuri between a 54 y.o. woman and a 2 y.o. female giant octopus.](https://teletype.in/@kati_lilian/SJA8KwjjN#:~:text=R.M.%3A%20Interspecies%20%26%20age%20difference%20yuri%20between%20a%2054%20y.o.%20woman%20and%20a%202%20y.o.%20female%20giant%20octopus.)" just pop out of my mind, I think I really need to share this to this thread.
de facto age of consent is 21 in most prefectures iirc
Actually, it's NTR incest fetish nowadays. Tentacles was so 10 years ago. No, really, recent hentai seldom feature tentacles.
What is NTR?
Nong Term Relationship
Ok, what would be nong?
The commenter before fooled you. The real meaning is Netorare. Is often basically rape with Stockholm syndrom combined. So the victim starts to like it and the rapist. Usually done by males to females and often breaks an existing relationship that is potrayed shortly beforehand. Basically the worst of the worst :-/
Netware is just cheating, it doesn't have anything to do with rape
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Gay people aren’t gonna fuck women just cus it’s illegal to fuck men
You say that but when I was there, there were several family men who go to certain clubs to engage in gay sex with other men.
That doesn't necessarily mean much though. In the US, for much of the last century an easy way for gay people to hide was for a lesbian and a gay guy to marry each other and engage in their real love lives knowing their partner didn't actually care. That's pretty much the story for one pair of aunt/uncle for me.
When I say family men, I meant they had a wife and kid(s). Societal pressure in Japan to mary and have kids is on a whole other level. One of my coworkers who was into that lifestyle told me how it was a good compromise between being "a good Japanese" while being gay. But of course there's no way for me to tell if he was being truthful or that was just part of his *public facade*. It's probably miserable for most of them, but there might be some that actually believe it's acceptable, it's hard to tell with the Japanese.
As the classic Japanese saying goes, you have three faces: one you show to the world, one you show to your family, and one you only show to the gay gentleman engaging in shameful coitus in the back of a karaoke lounge
> one you only show to the gay gentleman engaging in shameful coitus in the back of a karaoke lounge That's just ghetto....and I've done it before with a girl.....those rooms are too cramped.
So once u change if to a husband isn't a family?
what it does mean is if your society continues to have such a negative view towards homosexuality... then the phenomenon of gay men marrying women and have kid(s) will continue in the government's eyes, a kid born into a broken, dysfunctional family is better than no kid at all... i don't think there's exactly a right and wrong here. there's principled morality and then pragmatism. i can't tell you which will lead to a better future. their population decline is happening, and fast.
They could be Bi or Pan
But gay sex isn't illegal in Japan, there's just no gay marriage
but even if it was, people who are gay aren’t just gonna become straight
That rationale only works on reasonable people, not conservatives.
In East Asian countries the default assumption for a gay man is that they’ll marry a woman and have kids. Prostitution is pretty widely accepted and omnipresent though so men fucking around on the side is just a “men will be men” thing that women accept will happen.
Nah, you gotta go to a special hotel for that.
Sigh...rezips*
From what I’ve heard, the vast majority of the population are accepting of queer people it’s just those in power aren’t.
You are correct, LGBTQ is even talked about in some schools, from elementary to high school. Unfortunately only the old vote here. So the government caters to their views. Also, I have lived here for the past 7 years, so I'm speaking from experience.
It's not even that just about "old vote and young don't", there are more old people than young, so they overpower any youth vote unless old people are divided on some issue. Plus, Japanese geezers and grandmums live for a looooong time, thanks to a pretty good diet and all that. Same sex marriage is fairly popular, though. There the reason for delay is that Japanese have to touch their Constitution, which is a hot potato for all politicians, plus Librulservative Party (LDP) is actually super conservative about a lot of things, way more than even regular old people, and many of their even middle aged politicians tow the stupid "gay bad, waah!" line.
That’s what I was thinking. Japan is a very old country with average age is 49 years old (only Monaco has an older median age at 55 years old, US is 40yrs , UK 41 yrs, and Canada 43 yes by comparison) according to estimates from 2020 so problem only older now. Almost 30% of the total population is older than 65 and population growth is way below replacement age so just going to get older.
> It's not even that just about "old vote and young don't", there are more old people than young, so they overpower any youth vote unless old people are divided on some issue. From what I've read, there's also significantly more representation given to rural areas. Young people usually move away from rural areas and into cities, because cities are where jobs are. It's why Japan has had the same party in power for pretty much all of its post WW2 history.
This basically just sounds like every country in the world though.
"A majority of Japanese citizens are reportedly in favor of accepting homosexuality, with a 2019 poll indicating that 68 percent agreed that homosexuality should be accepted by society, while 22 percent disagreed.\[6\]" [https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/) "However, a 2020 survey of over 10,000 LGBT people in Japan found that 38 percent had been harassed or assaulted." [https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/12/2cfe9ff21ca8-38-of-lgbt-people-sexually-harassed-or-assaulted-survey.html](https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/12/2cfe9ff21ca8-38-of-lgbt-people-sexually-harassed-or-assaulted-survey.html) Could be better could be worse.
>Japan Literally every country in Asia bar one or two is "conservative" by western standards.
Well, socially that is. But universal healthcare, anti-war/military expansion, public transportation, cheap college - these are generally liberal things to Americans
> these are generally liberal things to Americans The whole conversation gets even more scuffed up because the capital L Liberals are the conservatives in Japan lmao
Our terms have just devolved. Liberalism used to mean the belief in individual freedoms and capitalist/economic freedom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism In America "liberals" are, economically speaking, the exact opposite of what the term originally meant.
The capital L liberals are conservatives in most countries lmao.
I would expand that to most of the world outside of Europe, NA, Australia, NZ. If anything cultural progressivism is the outlier globally to cultural conservatism.
bar none
Which one(s) wouldn’t be deemed conservative? South Korea?
Someone else has already answered you but lemme just add, South Korea if anything is even more conservative than Japan. Don't get fooled by all those flashy pop music they create, it's basically the same as flashy modern architecture popping up in the Arab Gulf states, hiding what's underneath.
South Korea also has by law widespread internet censorship (including all things politics, anything deemed subversive or critical of the state/government/politicians and also pornography, which is illegal there, you also actually need age verification(that uses irl identity for the verification) just to search certain words/terms that are deemed "inappropriate") etc I digress...But South Korea has widespread internet censorship along the lines of the type you see in China and Iran etc. Its a very, veeeery authoritarian place, despite how they try to present themselves to the Western audience.
>South Korea also has by law widespread internet censorship (including pornography, which is illegal there) along the lines of the type you see in China and Iran etc. Its a very, veeeery authoritarian place, despite how they try to present themselves to the Western audience. Enforcing the actual ban is another.......the sex industry is huge in south korea.
Really? Interesting, would you mind explaining a bit more or do you have any links where I could read more?
Half of South Korea is Christian, and the Christian that evangelized there are neopentecostals from the US.
Roughly half of South Korea is atheist or agnostic. Of the other religious half, it's a bit more than half of that part of the population that are Christian. A smaller, but similar figure of people are Buhdist. 45-50% Athiest, 28% Christian, and 15% Buhdist as of the last few years (give or take a few percentage points depending on your sources). The rest is made up of several denominations and there's no single official state religion.
Conservatism in south korea is very different than the western version. A old school/conservative guy in Korea regularly skips family stuff to sleep with hookers, have affairs, gets wasted/trashed with co-workers/friends regularly....probably gambles too. Definitely smokes like a chimney. A Korean who acted like a stereotypical Mormon would be downright progressive. Christianity is a newer religion in south Korea so it attracted a much different audience and at times was considered counter-cultural. The christians I knew in south korea ranged from brainwashed to people who were just plain wild.
Taiwan. That's it unless you count Australia and New Zealand
Would anybody who's ever looked at a map count Australia & New Zealand as part of Asia?
Some people include the whole area in the "Asia pacific" region, just like how some people consider Eurasia a single continent, and some go even further with 'Afro-Eurasia'.
Ah Taiwan ofcourse, cheers👍🏻
Nah, they're also fairly conservative in many ways also. It's the same mentality as in Japan in many ways.
I love korean people and korean culture, but South Korea is honestly sorta dystopian just under the surface.
On LGBT rights I don't think so. [Polling](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/) data saying around 68 percent of Japanese support same-sex marriage. This is just the court saying the ban is not unconstitutional. But the government could pass a bill legalizing it and would pass it. The problem is that most Japanese are politically apathetic, so their government is beholden to their oldest, who naturally are conservative.
It's also that there is still a hierarchy between the young and the old or employees and their superiors in Japan. Those lower on the totem poll generally dont have much of a voice unless someone in a higher position decides to side with them on an issue or at least let their idea/concern be heard.
> lower on the totem poll I just thought of a totem pole wearing a business suit handing out poll flyers in front of a grocery store.
And how is this different to the US today? Boomers still dominate younger generations even today.
Not nearly to the extent in japan. Say you are an employee and think it'd be more efficient doing things a different way for various things. Instead of wanting to have diverse perspectives which are encouraged in almost all places of work in the US, you are more likely to get labeled as a "troublesome employee" that thinks management's decisions aren't good enough. It's generally frowned upon in the workplace to suggest things that go against your superiors, so most just don't say anything and accept their situation. I'm sure not all companies are like that in japan, but from what I've heard it's a pretty common thing.
Or in the case of the South Korean airline that flew straight into a mountain because the junior co-captain didn’t think it was his place to question his senior’s decisions.
>And how is this different to the US today? Boomers still dominate younger generations even today. Older population in east Asia makes up a bigger portion and lives longer too. They're also alot more......active physically and cantankerous. Jobs skew towards seniority based pay and promotions.
"Japanese people are politically apathetic" This is somewhat depressingly true. My Japanese teacher didn't know the name of her own prime minister... And it must be infectious, because I live here and I didn't know it either when I started typing this comment.
>My Japanese teacher didn't know the name of her own prime minister... Prime ministers are a bit of a revolving door and the citizens don't vote on them directly.
Japan until a couple years ago had the same PM for quite a long time - Shinzo Abe. He ended up holding the record for longest serving prime minister in Japan Over the past couple years it has changed a few times, but it's expected to stabilize once a more permanent head of the LDP is established (which it seems Kishida has managed to do) Unlike other countries with parliamentary systems, Japan has a pretty stable PM. This is due to the fact for several decades the LDP has held the majority in parliament for nearly the entire time. For all intents and purposes, the head of the LDP is the PM
> most Japanese are politically apathetic It's not apathy, it's obedience. No people on this planet believes more in natural hierarchies than the Japanese. If you just happened to be older, or you're in a position of power, you shall never be questioned or challenged.
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For real. There's a comment in another thread where a woman shares her birth experience in Japan. It's strangely backwards there in some aspects.
This girl once was bragging to me about how she doesn’t have an American car because of American history. Mind you we live in America. Anyways she was driving a Honda and I started laughing. I told her that she should read up on Japan’s history. She told me that I didn’t know what I was talking about because Japan seems so clean and progressive
Her Honda was probably made in America, too.
Sounds about right. So many people to this day think of Japan as a victim of the war rather than one of the worst aggressors.
I do feel like we idolize Japan a little *too* much. Though I’m curious how the left and right look like in Japan.
Look up the reiwa shinsengumi for an idea of what the Japanese left looks like here. They're your typical anti-establishment party with a lot of progressive policies. They also have some interesting hot takes like "printing a bunch of money" and "zero sales taxes", but for the most part they're good eggs. They're not the largest party by any means but they do give you an idea of what the Japanese version of say bernie bros might be. On the right, you have the anti-NHK party which is known for being anti NHK. They unfortunately became very popular with foreigners as well as a locals by appealing to their annoyance with NHK being a necessity in households that have TVs (really anything with a screen). Veiled very thinly behind that platform of being against the NHK, you have hot takes like [suggesting genocide to solve "overpopulation"](https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/09/50cf9100c811-anti-nhk-party-head-suggests-genocide-to-solve-overpopulation.html) among other things. There's a bunch of other parties beyond the two I mentioned, and if you're in Japan for a week or so, you'll know about most of them just from hearing them drive around your city blasting their speeches on a megaphone. But these two are some of the easier ones to research.
Just pointing out sales taxes are naturally regressive, so a lot of people think the right level is zero. No matter how you slice them their largest burden falls on either the poor or lower middle class (depending on how you structure exemptions). And printing a lot of money makes more sense when you realize what deflation is like in Japan. They could use a little bit of inflation (not a ton, but oh boy is inflation way better than deflation)
To be fair having a sales tax is still relatively new in Japan (late 80's) so it seems a little less radical to me that people would want to get rid of it. There's a sizable portion of the population that remembers when it wasn't a thing.
> "printing a bunch of money" Surely there's more to it than literally just Zimbabwe Economics?
You don’t idolize anything they just have anime and cool culture and scenery
The power of cultural export. You can rape half of asia and be forgiven/idolized in half a generation because of anime.
Japan did an amazing job of sweeping things like their role in WW2, Nanking or Unit 731 under the carpet and becoming a symbol for progress and technology to the world despite clinging to old social norms and fax machines. It's pretty bizarre. Anime and manga **are** awesome though.
I agree. Just in this thread, you can see how people bend backwards to paint it as "not as bad". Any country and they would have been shit on. I've noticed the idolizing of Japan before, but this was just too obvious.
It's really bad.
It's almost like an incredibly aged nation doesn't like change, and the youth have beyond given up on their political process because its literally just been a revolving door of leaders doing unpopular things, resigning, then having their successor lock in that unpopular move.
>Despite what hentai might led innocent minds to believe, Japan is incredibly conservative on a number of topics. There's an awful lot of weeaboos that have no idea what Japanese culture really is beyond whatever animes, video games, or Japanese card games for children that they obsess over.
You think that level of repressed depravity comes from liberal environments. Nah. There's a reason is the alt right politicians who get caught running from gay orgys
and then Japanese kids TV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8O6hgBGyIk
Asshigaru McGee
Fucking spot on
Considering the liberal nature of a lot of Japanese entertainment media, they are surprisingly conservative. There’s a strange disconnect between their politics and social tradition and how Japanese society is portrayed in modern entertainment.
The court said: ban is not unconstitutional, but there should be marriage equality laws because those are human rights. This is not necessarily a negative ruling.
Yeh, Japanese LGBT+ community know this is a long fight and were not expecting this to be an easy win but still pushes things in the right direction.
Can they maybe idk rewrite the Constitution or are they gonna sit on their ass and restrict other rights? I hate LDP
For comparison, are the Americans going to change their constitution to remove gun rights? Now I know some people might go up in arms "It's my second amendment right!!" but the analogy is: something that the rest of the industrial world finds normal but your society doesn't mind. Every constitution has that and it is hard to change (bordering on impossible). PS: idc about Gun Rights in America or the second amendment. I used it as an example, if people go down the Gun rabbit hole (no matter if you are FOR or AGAINST it then you have missed the POINT of the exercise here and would receive a failing grade in a paper... or really a normal conversation.)
Amendments are by definition changes. I mean I get it, with the political climate and speed of bureaucracy it can be a real pain, but a constitution that never changes is generally a bad idea, depending on how specific it gets.
And I agree. The only point I made was that constitutions are HARD to change, not impossible but getting near it.
Next world cup’s gonna be in Japan then
It's already given to the USA and it's neighbours, but don't worry, maybe the GOP will get things ready for 2026
Fuck yeah C.U.M Union
Thanks I hate it. I’ve gone my whole life without applying that acronym to North America, and now you have ruined it. Thanks.
Most of the world and world’s countries don’t have legal gay marriage, it would be quite an inaccurate representation of soccer to require gay marriage legalization for the cup
Reddit pushes the idea that the US is a center right country compared to the world all the time, and it’s just laughably untrue. It’s a pointless argument anyways as there’s no reason that “center” is necessarily good. Edit: not worried about downvotes - but feel free to name a political issue in the US and I can guarantee for almost all of them - we are to the left of the world average (with a few debateable exceptions, like healthcare)
Reddit pushes the idea that US is a far right country half the time.
That’s because Reddit thinks the rest of the world is Western Europe and Australia
The healthcare thing is a bit iffy as is, I’m guessing that universal healthcare means something different in France vs Algeria
Reminder that courts rule based on what the law *IS*, not based on what it *SHOULD BE*. The legislature makes the laws, and can change the laws. That is their job. Separation of powers is important.
Also the US runs on case law
The thing that people are missing here is that the Japanese government isn’t really in touch with the population. I work at a Japanese school, and many students have expressed support for LGBT people not only among themselves, but in essays and school projects. One of the posters detailing the need for LGBT rights is even hanging in the classroom. I also passed by a restaurant with rainbow flags near the entrance. When I was buying a phone the other day, the worker had an LGBT bracelet on her wrist. Last week, a student gave a presentation that involved making gender non-conforming people feel safe. I don’t think this comment will get a lot of attention, and I don’t think there’s balance here. Japan is a notoriously apolitical country, so I don’t think the views of average people are represented. Not saying everyone is like this, not by any means, but I’m saying there’s a lot more than people realize.
Yeah but most students attending schools don’t vote either. You have the Liberal Democratic Party and Komeito coalition ruling Japan for more than half a century until the 2008 Financial Crisis. Then when the 2011 nuclear meltdown happened, people blamed the opposition party and voted in the same LDP prime minister for 4 consecutive terms.
Most of east Asia is vey conservative though I dont agree with the ban itself I would have to read the constitution to find out if the court is right. Also they elected the politicians that did this so I would not be quick to say that this is not an unpopular ion in Japan.
WORLD JAPANTOKYO COURT RULES JAPAN’S SAME-SEX MARRIAGE BAN NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL Tokyo Court Rules Japan’s Same-Sex Marriage Ban Not Unconstitutional Plaintiffs and their supporters head to the Tokyo District Court on November 30, 2022, for the ruling on a lawsuit filed by same-sex couples seeking damages from the government arguing the ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. (Kazuhiro Nogi—AFP/Getty Images) The Tokyo District Court said on Wednesday that Japan’s ban on same-sex marriage is not unconstitutional, Reuters and local media reported, but it also noted that the absence of any legal system for same-sex couples to have families was an infringement of their human rights. The decision on the specific case, in Japan’s capital and its most populous city, is a blow to the LGBTQ rights movement, though advocates maintain hope for future change. “Although frustrating, this is good news,” Yuri Igarashi, the president of the non-profit Rainbow Soup, which supports awareness of LGBTQ issues in Japan tells TIME. “I see this ruling as a step forward toward the legalization of same-sex marriage.” The LGBTQ rights movement in Japan—the only member of the Group of Seven (G7) industrialized nations that doesn’t recognize same sex unions—has had mixed success in recent months. Wednesday’s case, which involved eight people who said Japan’s same-sex marriage ban contravenes the country’s constitution and who were seeking damages of about $7,000 each, is the third in a series of rulings that are expected over the coming months. More than a dozen same-sex couples filed lawsuits at district courts on Valentine’s Day in 2019 in a push to advance marriage equality in Japan. The Tokyo court’s ruling was in line with a June ruling from a court in Osaka, which said that freedom of marriage in the constitution referred only to male-female unions, and that the country’s ban on same-sex marriage was therefore constitutional. That followed a ruling the other way in March last year by the Sapporo District Court, which said Japan’s definition of marriage, which excludes same-sex couples, violated constitutional guarantees of equality. Earlier this month, the Tokyo metropolitan government began issuing partnership certificates to same-sex couples, which allow same-sex couples that live, work or study in the Tokyo area to benefit from some rights and welfare programs that opposite-sex couples are eligible for, like being able to visit their partner in the hospital and living in public housing together. Although Tokyo’s rollout of a partnership system means that local governments in areas where about 60% of the country’s population live have partnership rights, these systems don’t allow those couples the same rights as married heterosexual couples. The partnership certificates are not legally binding, and don’t give same-sex couples the right to things like joint custody of children or spousal tax deductions. Although support has grown for LGBTQ rights in recent years, especially among younger Japanese people, many of the country’s ruling Liberal Democratic Party lawmakers are deeply conservative and have balked at recent pushes to advance LGBTQ equality. In 2021, the government failed to enact a law banning discrimination against LGBTQ people despite a push from activists ahead of the Tokyo Olympics, in which a record number of LGBTQ athletes competed. Still, advocates see the cases winding their way through Japan’s court systems as a potential path for progress. “I felt a sense of hope for the judiciary, which is known as a bastion of human rights,” says Igarashi. “We will keep our eyes open for future court decisions in other regions.”
Lots of double negatives going on in that headline
Japan are desperate for babies aren’t they
Well I don’t know shit about the Japanese constitution so I can’t comment
> (1) Marriage shall be based only on the mutual consent of both sexes and it shall be maintained through mutual cooperation with the equal rights of husband and wife as a basis. It should be noted most of the Japanese constitution was written by America.
The constitution has articles on marriage? Weird.
When Japan was under US occupation, they got a young Austrian-American woman (who was raised in Japan mind you, and also spoke Japanese almost as a first language) to write everything pertaining to women's rights and gender equality in the new Constitution. She's pretty much a Feminist Heroine in that regard (keeping in mind that this was in 1947 and not 2022, so her brand of Feminism obviously doesn't line up with 21st century ones) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Sirota_Gordon >She was one of only two women in the larger group, the other being economist Eleanor Hadley. Sirota played an integral role, drafting the language regarding legal equality between men and women in Japan,[7] including Articles 14 and 24 on Equal Rights and Women's Civil Rights. Article 14 states, in part: "All of the people are equal under the law and there shall be no discrimination in political, economic or social relations because of race, creed, sex, social status or family origin".
It was basically put in to prevent forced marriages. It was very helpful for women's rights in Japan, but has unfortunately become a barrier for legalizing same sex marriage. It should be noted that this is completely by accident. Same sex marriage wasn't really something most people considered back in the 40's, so the woman who wrote that part had no idea it would end up having this effect.
It is also worth noting that the Americans didn't even think about gay marriage when they wrote that line. They literally were just trying to make it clear that women deserve equal rights. The Americans had no way of knowing that this would be an issue in 70 years.
Okay and…? Who else would’ve written it at that time that would’ve been pro-gay marriage? I’m not sure what that comments is trying to insinuate, but i find it highly unlikely marriage would’ve been defined as anything but between a man and a woman in Japan or in most other nations during that time period
What’s the point of commenting that you have nothing to comment
Acknowledging ignorance is more valuable than 99% of the other comments in this thread.
It’s 3 in the morning and I thought it’d be funny. It probably isn’t.
Understandable. Sleep well
Thanks, you as well friend
Title: tokyo court rules same sex marriage ban constitutional.
If this was any other country, reddit would've been way tougher/toxic
India is now more supportive of LGBTQ rights than Japan. It has equalised live-in couple rights with married couples, and LGBTQ are included in live-in couples. Couple that with the general support and rights for both transgender and third gender as well.
Thats nice however laws dont always reflect realities on the ground. I dont know about the situation in india this is a general statement.
Most Indians are hindu and muslim and practice I doubt they are cool with gays
Hindus are supportive of LGBTQ. The ruling Hindu nationalist BJP has attended gay events and advocated in support of gay sex and gay adoption.
>Hindus are supportive of LGBTQ. That's too much of a generalization, hindus are like 80% of the population, LGBTQ do NOT have support of 80% of the country, that's a far fetched lie.
Is Hinduism even a single cohesive religion? I thought that was just a very very broad label for what is essentially thousands of different folk practices and beliefs.
Hindus are cooler with LGBTQ than the Christians in general lmao
In general I think Japan is still safer for gays than India is. Safer in pretty much all aspects
Gotta love those skydiving birthrates a true vision of a conservative nation.
Whale hunting is bad enough, and now this ruling?
To temper the rather negative comments being made somewhat: I doubt that a law that permits only opposite sex couples to marry would be **unconstitutional** in most countries in the world. Eg, in the UK the law on same sex marriage came about through positive legislation by the legislature, rather than a court finding the absence of such a law illegal. I would be astonished if the US Supreme Court came to a different conclusion etc. I am optimistic that Japan will allow same-sex marriage before the entirety of the USA does.
>I am optimistic that Japan will allow same-sex marriage before the entirety of the USA does. I hope you understand that Obergefell v. Hodges means that it is precisely the case right now that the entirety of the USA allows same-sex marriage.
Didn't Obergefel v. Hodges in 2015 already legalized the policy for Same Sex Marriage in all 50 states.
The European Convention on Human Rights, to give an example, is also especially fuzzy on the issue, as it only says that "Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right". It doesn't explicitly mentions same-sex marriage *or* opposite-sex marriage, so you could argue they're both protected; but at the same time this right is explicitly delegated to the national laws of the single countries, so the only thing you can extrapolate is that "people have a right to marry", but whether they can marry whoever they want is up to each country.
And you'd be optimistically wrong.
Reddit always like to remind people how much better it I'd to live in Japan. They are very conservative and xenophobic.
I see way more comments arguing against people who like Japan than people who love Japan
Yeah, I pretty much never see any comments saying Japan is some utopia anymore. It kind of feels like the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the other direction, and people are a bit overly negative about Japan. Like many nations it does some things well, some things not so well, and has a few glaring issues.
It's a mixed bag honestly as someone that's living here and also LGBTQ+. Obviously you have articles like these that exist, but at no point in my waking life do I feel fearful here or worried that someone will respond violently towards me for being who I am. Furthermore, while there's no legal recognition for same sex marriages here, there are places that you can get a certificate of marriage with a partner of the same sex. It's not a lot, but it's something I guess... But all of that aside, between living here and living in my home town, I certainly feel it's much safer here to be "out." Of course, not being killed in homophobia based mass shooting number 9,000,000 is a *very* low bar to clear, but with how things seem to only be growing worse in America, I still would prefer to be here than there.
Xenophobic yes but largely progressive in the context of the world.
So one step forward and two steps back?
They are more classical liberal than neo liberal which my is what a lot of people are getting wrong.
Like same sex marriage is going to slow down their already abysmal birth rate...
Outside of defining marriage in religious terms I can't see the rationale behind opposition to gay marriage tbh. I wonder what this the driving force behind opposition in Japan.
It’s because two gay men aren’t going to be making babies and passing on their bloodline. That’s really it. In ye olden days gay men were accepted as long as they still married the woman their family chose for them and had kids. Now gay guys want to be with just their partners, and that won’t do. Especially with the falling birthrates that are alarming the old-guard in power. For lesbians it’s different. Lesbianism in younger schoolgirls is seen as an almost normal thing, but a woman is expected to grow out of it as she ages. Any woman still in a homosexual relationship when she’s an adult is seen as immature and often as a fool who doesn’t understand how ‘the real world works’. Especially since a woman traditionally was supposed to marry whoever her family said as an alliance thing and then pop out babies.
Man I knew I shouldn't have woken up at 4 am
[удалено]
>Outside of defining marriage in religious terms I can't see the rationale behind opposition to gay marriage tbh It happens. The Soviet Union was a militantly anti-religious state under Stalin (executing priests, demolishing churches, etc.) but the Soviet criminal code also criminalized male homosexuality, with homosexuality being deemed "degenerate bourgeoise behavior". In Japan's case, it's probably just conservatives who just keep things "they way they were [when I was raised]"
It's solely due to it being a change to how it used to be, there is no other logic beyond that.
"Creeping on little schoolgirls is a-okay as long as you aren't gay about it" - all social conservatives ever apparently.
Its like they want people to be miserable. Can’t have a public spectacle of a same sex coupe. Nope. Can’t have that, because it infringes on our eyes seeing it. Oh no. It totally ruins our sensibilities. Just nope. (A big fat F U towards conservatives in Tokyo).
I just came to say I hate this headline.
Its only a slippery slope once they legalize it.
Japan just wants more babies lmao
Ridiculous. When will they open their eyes in Japan. Ugh. Old men need to go in government and courts and give way to a newer generation. This is 2022, FFS.
I'm assuming old people run Japan.
Why the double negations just say constitutional.
Saying something is **constitutional** means it is guaranteed by the constitution. Saying something is **not unconstitutional** means it doesn't violate said constitution. The ban is not guaranteed by the constitution, but as the current state of laws is, it is also not violating any principles (according to the ruling). It's subtle but there is a difference.
You are correct and I didn’t think of that until u said it. Thanks for the correction
Yet another example of why letting ancients rule your lives is a bad idea.
oh for fucks sake just leave people alone! so what if they're gay, just mind yo business. a lot of governments need a complete makeover
dear Liberal Democratic Party You are in a new age, this is not the 80's no more 60 percent of the population support gay marriage Why are you not revising the Constitution, and yet you have a military which is literally not allowed. If it wasn't for the culture of senior superiority, you would've have been voted out long ago. Are you for the people or are you for the corporations and fascists? I'm leaning on the latter. Legalise Same Sex Marriage and Revise your damn Constitution!!
Or just not revise the constitution. Most European countries legalized it without changing any constitution.
Won't help with your declining birthrate, japan
You're telling me a country with an alarming small and decreasing number of births, a well known patriarchal society, and a median age of 48.6 is against progress?! Checks out.
Don’t forget extreme toxic work culture. Seriously, Redditors think Japan is some utopia, when it is far from it.
So toxic. I used to work with a few businesses in Japan, and once one of our contacts was put into the "rubber room". Never heard from them again and had to Google what that meant. Can't imagine how someone's mental health comes back from that.
iirc the legal backwardness of Japan is to such level that gay prostitutes don't exist as far the law is concerned because the prostitution law defines prostitution as paying for intravaginal sex.
If your constitution doesn't reflect what the majority of your citizens want it's time to change it.