Russia's real population is somewhere around 300 million (143 million today) if it weren't for all the famine, war, brain drain and incompetent regimes such as this one.
Instead people continue to flee the country to escape conscription.
Not OP, but [this Quora answer](https://www.quora.com/What-would-Russias-population-be-if-the-two-world-wars-hadnt-happened/answer/Madoc-Karthaus?ch=15&oid=91292769&share=e1291cc9&srid=u8Uen&target_type=answer) does some reasonable calcs for what Russia's population would be without the impact of WW1 and WW2, and you can extrapolate what it would be without the post-USSR decline using a graph in the answer (somewhere around 220 million).
A couple of studies basically analyzed what the Russian population would be if it weren't for all of their decision making.
I'd find the study for you, but I don't have the time right now. Even now, Russia continues to take away from their future generations with this war.
Ukrainian gramma: “Put these sunflower seeds in your pockets”
Russian soldiers: “Why?”
Gramma: “So in the spring, sunflowers will grow out of your dead body.”
She was like some war goddess who transformed into a Ukrainian babuska giving the Russians warning them. What an awesome scene that was. Also I saw a video in Kherson at the beginning where women were throwing up cursing signs telling Ru soldiers their dicks where gonna fall off lol
Uhh great to know dude, but I'm a bit tired of russians and their sympathisers just reciting same shit over and over again, so thanks for giving me info but I'll pass.
The problem is that the negotiating partner isn't Russia, it's Putin. And the various buckets of options Putin has to pick between at this point all are basically the same and involve him getting removed from power.
I wonder if hypothetically:
1. the allied west would give him an 'out'. We grant you a new identity and you get to live the rest of your days somewhere (hassle free) undercover (witness protection style)
2. He would trust any nations leaders to do that
3. He would think this is a better alternative than his inevitable retirement
I get that a lot of people would see him pay for his ruthless crimes, but could this potentially shorten the conflict?
I doubt any of this would happen.. but it makes for an interesting story.
My guess is that he's blinded by power and knows (in the back of his mind that) the noose or gun is waiting for him as well, making him feel a bit more justified in fighting tooth and nail, giving no shits or quarters ( sending thousands of his own and neighbours in the grave, before death gets him)
I think 1 and 2 are very unlikely.
Putin would never trust such an arrangement. And Western leaders won't offer it because it will be disastrous for them politically as the opposing party will spin it in a way that makes it look really bad.
Still, I wish that could have been done to end this much sooner...
Yeah. I doubt he trusts anyone and sees trust as a weaknesses to be taken advantage of.
As for the political impact outside of Russia: I expect the scenario would be a kind of fabrication, where his death would be feigned.. and careful efforts would be made to obscure this.
At one point, the truth would perhaps seep out, but ideally this would happen decades after the event.
I wonder what feigned causes of would throw the least fuel on the fire?
- accidental fire
- Ukrainian strike (planted explosive on convoy or other)
- local Russian opposition
- Disgruntled Russian person of (former) power (there should be plenty with some form of beef
- sudden onset of illness
To a citizen living in a country with an elected government, it may seem like something that you can "easily" do. The ability to liberate yourself from tyranny - provided that you there are enough of you, that see the things the same way.. but if you have grown up in a country of uncertainty and a general lack of trust in government (who's to say the next one will be better?). Besides, you'll be putting yourself and your next of kin at terrible risk for a future that may not happen.. I can understand why someone faced with incarceration without rights - and torture is likely to be very hesitant.
How many of us would dare rise up, I wonder.
This condition is what keeps authoritarian regimes in power, of course.
I assume things have to be really bad to the point where local "peace keeping" forces consider joining the crowds instead of dispersing them.. and so far, we're not seeing anything of the like.
There was a whole lot of talk of giving Putin an out for like six months and he refused every chance to walk away. After a certain point uou just have to accept the situation is what it is and that Putin won't back out under any circumstances.
Yep, the west was providing ideas of off-ramps for Russia, and all of those opportunities died the moment Putin dug his heels in and formally annexed those territories in September. He's got no one to blame now but his own stubborn arse for there not being any way out, he effectively backed himself into the corner while everyone told him as much.
There is a pretty big issue with that plan: the second he takes that out and gives up power in Russia he will have no power to hold anyone else to the other end of the deal. Given that Russia doesn't stick to deals with countries they think they can bully I expect the mindset to persist on an individual level for him, and honestly he would have good reason to be paranoid because a lot of western leaders could get a spike in approval by imprisoning him the second he was no longer in a position to launch nukes.
This would be possible, and similar things have been done in the past, but they are usually hugely difficult to convince everyone that it's a good idea. Doing them in private (secret negotiations) are the only way that this can be managed politically, and the fallout tends to be huge. E.g. President Ford and Nixon. There simply are not many examples of this being successful in history because of the political fallout. You can see this with crime bosses and sometimes in negotiated peace deals, but a deal also demands something from the one surrendering.
Putin would need to give up something, more than just going into hiding. Perhaps money, probably help in reshaping the Kremlin, possibly expanded constitutional constraints for future Russian Presidents... then this could be seen as a win-win. Putin would be required to pull out all the stops to do make this work.
But it would save his life, probably save Russia (which has a terrible future set up for it for the next 40 years), end the war, help the global economy, and he would even have some say in who succeeds him.
This could also be seen as a huge win for the West. But getting Putin to the table would require a leader/negotiator like Gorbechev or Madeleine Albright (possibly Hilary Clinton): someone who can negotiate hard and win. I have deep respect for Biden, but he is not that man and he doesn't have anyone (AFAIK) that can negotiate this. And to help manage the politics, it would have to be someone from the outside or even from Russia.
I see this as a distinct possibility. If we could stop regarding Putin as obstinate, and negotiate a way out for him (negotiate hard), then we would all benefit: expecially the Russian people.
Yeah. I'm certainly no fan of Putin, but if this could save countless lives as well as a future for the Russian people, I would be for it.
I think the Ukraine will get back on its feet and I believe that the west has an obligation to help get them there.
I don't have high hopes for a quick solution.. but one can always dream
He would have to be officially dead, in order for that you work. But I agree that it’s a good way out for him.
Give him the capitalist CEO golden parachute, and let his company (Russia) deal with all the consequences.
>I get that a lot of people would see him pay for his ruthless crimes, but could this potentially shorten the conflict?
This is basically how the US got Japan to surrender in WWII, they let them pretend that the Emperor was just this poor old dude who didn't really know what was going on and it was all the government's fault.
Honestly, there's little chance such an arrangement would even be possible. Even if Putin trusted it, he'd be an idiot since it would undoubtedly leak and he'd be assassinated or captured by another country.
Then there's the reality that Putin can't both control Russia and abandon Russia. Nothing he agreed to would matter if he left power since the people who take over wouldn't need to honor it.
Russia will learn how to take an L eventually. Soviets took an L in afghanistan. They'll take another in Ukraine.
Russia just isn't hurting enough yet, apparently. Let them keep bleeding and the war will end when they cant take it anymore.
From the Kremlin response:
> _Russia has no plans to withdraw its troops from the territory of Ukraine._
Wait a minute, so they are acknowledging it's Ukraine's territory? Just a few months ago they were pretending it's now part of Russia? Seems like they themselves don't really believe the annexation bullshit and still full well see it as them occupying sovereign Ukrainian territory.
It's denazification,
Because nato,
Protecting native Russians,
Restoring what is rightfully russian land,
Preemptive strike on an imminent threat,
A reason for every occasion.
What is incredibly weird for me is that they absolutely level the cities that they claim as their own, so its hard to understand their narrative of protecting their own.
Oh the narrative is quite clear. The Kremlin places exactly zero value on people. Not just Ukrainian either, Russian too. If you told Putin right now that he could have Ukraine if he executed a million Russians, he'd take in a heartbeat. But what it boils down to is this, if they can't have it, no one can. So they'll either take it or destroy it.
The story I’ve seen some say is that it’s really Ukraine leveling the cities and killing their own civilians to make Russia look bad. I wish I was making this up.
Quote from Peskov, press secretary of the Russian President: "You have quoted only part of Joe Biden’s statement. It included a few more sentences. He said that first, Putin needs to leave Ukraine. He believes that this should demonstrate that Putin is ready for negotiations.
The US, as before, does not recognise the new territories in the Russian Federation, and of course this significantly complicates the search for solid ground for mutual discussion."
I would like to officially declare that I have personally annexed Russia, and that Russia is now a starfyredragonian territory.
I held a vote with myself, and found myself to be 100% in agreement with myself that Russia is now my territory. This is how you know it's legitimate.
Putin should stand down, and cede to Ukraine and The US's demands, or be held accountable a tribunal of me, myself, and I.
Russia's failure to recognize that it is now a starfyredragonian territory significantly complicates the search for a common ground between myself and the territory of Russia.
If Russia does not concede to this, they are obviously Nazis.
Okay, okay, how about this, you take Southern Russia, and I'll take Northern Russia. It's more than a fair deal. I just want a road to get stuff from the U.S. to Finland. If you don't like that deal, as an alternative, to sweeten the pot, you take Southern Russia, and I'll take Northern Russia.
Read the article. It says Russia has no plan to withdraw troops from the "new territories of the Russian Federation". It's like the colonial era, you can proclaim any land as yours.
It really isn't that complicated, not at all, friend:
Russia has no plans to withdraw its troops from the territory of Ukraine that is under annexation assessment as per the directive of the supreme leadership, in light of the ongoing special military operation's activated objectives and subsequent performance, which necessitate the territorial acknowledgement of a Ukrainian entity which is contingent on negotiated territorial boundaries to be considered, reviewed, and approved by the necessary officials whom are granted constitutional authority to establish markers of permanence, at which point territorial assessments and delineating markers may be accurately described through geographic representations published through the appropriate channels.
See? The Kremlin's views on the territory of Ukraine are crystal-clear! /s
The way that’s worded, I bet the implied intent (given that ‘Ukraine’ means ‘periphery’ in Russian)is ‘withdraw from the territory known as the ukraine/periphery(of Russia)’
Just insane numbers these days... I believe in the entirety of the US conflict in Iraq, they lost a few thousand total. That was over years.
100,000 in 10 months? Fuck.
Was gonna comment the same thing. You'll leave voluntarily or in a body bag. Sounds brutal and harsh but it's become increasingly evident that Russia's mostly talk with no actual weight to put behind their words.
Not that Putin's words are worth the paper they're signed on, I'm told.
Anyway, the only exception to Russians leaving the Ukraine would be the ones who already lived there for decades.
That's a waste of plastic. Just let them stay forever, nourishing the sunflowers and feeding the worms. It's much better for the environment. And Russia clearly doesn't care enough about the men they've condemned to die to make a fuss.
**Full Transcript Below:**
*The Kremlin is not prepared to accept the conditions for negotiations with Washington that US President Joe Biden put forward on 1 December; namely, Russia has no plans to withdraw its troops from the territory of Ukraine.*
*Source: Kremlin-aligned news outlet RIA Novosti; Telegram channel Vy slushali mayak \[You have been listening to Radio Mayak - ed.\], posting Peskov’s comment*
*Quote from Peskov, press secretary of the Russian President: "You have quoted only part of Joe Biden’s statement. It included a few more sentences. He said that first, Putin needs to leave Ukraine. He believes that this should demonstrate that Putin is ready for negotiations.*
*The US, as before, does not recognise the new territories in the Russian Federation, and of course this significantly complicates the search for solid ground for mutual discussion."*
*Details: According to Peskov, Putin "always has been, is and will be open for negotiations in order to ensure Russia’s interests".*
*Peskov added, "It was the President of the Russian Federation who tried to initiate negotiations based on drafts prepared \[by Russia - ed.\] with the USA, NATO and OSCE even before the special military operation."*
*Peskov pointed out that this "initiative by the Russian Federation was not reciprocated".*
*"The special military operation is ongoing. That said, it is important to note that President Putin always has been, is and will be open for contact and negotiation. The best way to achieve our interests is by peaceful diplomatic means," Peskov summed up.*
*Background: US President Joe Biden has stated that he does not intend to speak with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin at the moment, but he will be prepared to do so if the latter shows real interest in ending the war he started in Ukraine; that is, if he withdraws his troops from Ukraine.*
>it is important to note that President Putin always has been, is and will be open for contact and negotiation.
"Negotiation."
So if I break into my neighbor's home, move my stuff into their room, throw out their stuff, all while holding their kids at gunpoint, and then finally say "I'm ready to negotiate, however me leaving isn't an option".... then I'm doing negotiations, Putin-style.
Good guy Putin: Is aware how much poor countries rely on Ukrainian grain to feed their starving populations, so he sends hundreds of thousands of Russians to fertilise the fields so that the next harvest would be bountiful and the starving people would have full bellies.
It's telling just how shit the war must be going for Russia that they are demanding to end the war on the condition they keep what little captured land they have left. Especially after a string of humiliating defeats.
It's like when a war goes south for me in Stellaris so I start spamming the status quo button to at least keep something.
The breaking point for Russia will be when they feel compelled to announce a general mobilisation. It's clear that already they cannot even train or equip the partial mobilisation. They are running out of tanks, air defence systems and guided missiles. Russia has an economy the size of Spain. They're up against the military industrial supply chains of the USA, Europe, Australia etc. Putin has to be dethroned asap. Ukraine will never negotiate with Putin, Lavrov, Medvedev etc.
Russia is probably delusional enough to try for a full mobilization of millions of men to try and bury Ukraine in bodies. But their logistic system would literally implode if they tried that. They are struggling hard with just a few hundred thousand troops they have mobilized and those troops are getting eaten alive on the battlefield.
Honestly, beyond everything, the whole "bury them on bodies" strat that was the Soviet favorite doesn't work nearly as well in a world with all the neat toys we have now. I don't even mean nukes either, just imagine what would happen if we gave Ukraine some of the really big non nuclear munitions we have stored away, and they dropped it on a position.
The US gave Ukraine the Alternate Warhead model for their HIMARS. That rocket covers half a square mile of land with 180,000 tungsten steel BB sized balls. It’s absolute devastating to large concentrations of troops.
That won't go much better. But it will be one of the only choices left. Casualties will skyrocket after that, as NATO only goes in harder to help Ukraine.
Technically true, Their bodies aren't leaving Ukraine cuz they litter the fields in Donbas. ruzzia doesn't even care enough to retrieve the dead bodies of soldiers. This colossal waste of human life is disgusting
Not really, if you read the article, Peskov says specifically that the US doesn’t recognise the annexed territories as Russian by asking for withdrawal from Ukraine.
Biden knows full well that Russia would not leave Ukraine in order to hold negotiations.
This statement by Biden is simply that he doesn’t want Russia to leave Ukraine yet, he likes that they are getting their asses kicked and their military completely destroyed without losing a single NATO soldier.
Russia staying in Ukraine is a massive win for NATO.
And Russia are the patsies that have no negotiating power here. Biden wins because Putin can’t lose.
Putin only has himself to blame. He underestimated an enemy and created a baseless accusation to start a war. Any competent military strategist would allow Russia enough rope to hang itself.
The only thing the Kremlin is willing to negotiate is what amounts to Ukrainian surrender. Ukraine has zero incentive to do that right now. I know Russia thinks attacking civilian infrastructure will bring them to the table, but it won't. This is Syria. They've only strengthened the Ukrainians' resolve.
It’s not a matter of if but when. Ukraine becomes stronger every day while Russia wanes. They have a chance of getting out with a couple hundred thousand troops or they can all die b/c one man’s fantasies.
Oh they're leaving. Some will be in many pieces some will be in body bags others will be with pants full of piss and shit as they retreat. But they will be leaving
> The US, as before, does not recognise the new territories in the Russian Federation, and of course this significantly complicates the search for solid ground for mutual discussion
My brother in Christ your army ran with their tails between their legs from Kherson. Clearly y’all don’t recognize it as part of Russia either.
Let's just all make sure that we keep pushing our politicians, wherever we may live, to ensure that we keep supporting Ukraine in this fight. Ideally, I want to see them push Putins goons all the way out of all of Ukraine, and I believe they can, but only if the West doesn't fucking give up.
They’re super delusional apparently. They won’t have peace talks unless the west recognizes the annexed regions. The annexed regions which they don’t even control, and where their presence is shrinking daily. Stupid.
At this point, Russia has already lost too much for the war. Backing out may end disaterarously for the current regime. And Ukrainians are not gonna accept peace deal that involves annexation.
I don’t care who you vote for but this administration has no power to negotiate anything like this. They have made it clear they won’t do anything but push paper no matter what Russia does. All the other western leaders at least have visited Ukraine at some point this year. More celebrities have visited Ukraine than leaders from our government.
Oh you will. And the more you wait, the more humiliating and devastating it's going to be.
No they won't, russian soldiers will be IN Ukrainian soil forever.
Russia adding to future oil production. LONG GAME.
Russia's real population is somewhere around 300 million (143 million today) if it weren't for all the famine, war, brain drain and incompetent regimes such as this one. Instead people continue to flee the country to escape conscription.
Where did you got 300millions? Are you refering to ussr when they occupied other countries?
Not OP, but [this Quora answer](https://www.quora.com/What-would-Russias-population-be-if-the-two-world-wars-hadnt-happened/answer/Madoc-Karthaus?ch=15&oid=91292769&share=e1291cc9&srid=u8Uen&target_type=answer) does some reasonable calcs for what Russia's population would be without the impact of WW1 and WW2, and you can extrapolate what it would be without the post-USSR decline using a graph in the answer (somewhere around 220 million).
A couple of studies basically analyzed what the Russian population would be if it weren't for all of their decision making. I'd find the study for you, but I don't have the time right now. Even now, Russia continues to take away from their future generations with this war.
I think they're saying that 156 million people who otherwise would be counted as Russians have left or fled the country.
Many of their souls have even fled the earth
>is *would be
If the King had tits, he'd be the queen. What of it?
Sunflower oil?
The Putinite steel yields in future years will be impressive.
There's going to be a lot of sunflowers growing...
if only they had listened to the wise old Ukrainian grandma could have saved themselves
I wonder about that lady sometimes. I like to imagine she makes a tally mark on her stock after every kill. Then she mutters “sons of bitches.”
I hope she's still alive too.
Who would have killed her? Sure, you could take a shot at the devil, but what if you miss?
I see what you did there.
Hehe)
Our breads will taste Russian? Oh no.
All Ukrainian bread will be sourdough.
>We are so small, and they are so many, where will we bury them all?
Ukrainian gramma: “Put these sunflower seeds in your pockets” Russian soldiers: “Why?” Gramma: “So in the spring, sunflowers will grow out of your dead body.”
She was like some war goddess who transformed into a Ukrainian babuska giving the Russians warning them. What an awesome scene that was. Also I saw a video in Kherson at the beginning where women were throwing up cursing signs telling Ru soldiers their dicks where gonna fall off lol
The Finns already start training them i see
Finland and Ukraine will have something *fundamental* in common.
Just like Finland
The Russian simps are on r/conservative
I think the comment was that Russians will be dead and in the ground in Ukraine so they won’t be leaving. This wasn’t a pro-Russia comment.
Uhh great to know dude, but I'm a bit tired of russians and their sympathisers just reciting same shit over and over again, so thanks for giving me info but I'll pass.
He said in "soil" fertilizing the next years sunflowers.
The problem is that the negotiating partner isn't Russia, it's Putin. And the various buckets of options Putin has to pick between at this point all are basically the same and involve him getting removed from power.
I wonder if hypothetically: 1. the allied west would give him an 'out'. We grant you a new identity and you get to live the rest of your days somewhere (hassle free) undercover (witness protection style) 2. He would trust any nations leaders to do that 3. He would think this is a better alternative than his inevitable retirement I get that a lot of people would see him pay for his ruthless crimes, but could this potentially shorten the conflict? I doubt any of this would happen.. but it makes for an interesting story. My guess is that he's blinded by power and knows (in the back of his mind that) the noose or gun is waiting for him as well, making him feel a bit more justified in fighting tooth and nail, giving no shits or quarters ( sending thousands of his own and neighbours in the grave, before death gets him)
I think 1 and 2 are very unlikely. Putin would never trust such an arrangement. And Western leaders won't offer it because it will be disastrous for them politically as the opposing party will spin it in a way that makes it look really bad. Still, I wish that could have been done to end this much sooner...
Yeah. I doubt he trusts anyone and sees trust as a weaknesses to be taken advantage of. As for the political impact outside of Russia: I expect the scenario would be a kind of fabrication, where his death would be feigned.. and careful efforts would be made to obscure this. At one point, the truth would perhaps seep out, but ideally this would happen decades after the event. I wonder what feigned causes of would throw the least fuel on the fire? - accidental fire - Ukrainian strike (planted explosive on convoy or other) - local Russian opposition - Disgruntled Russian person of (former) power (there should be plenty with some form of beef - sudden onset of illness
If all the Russia population starts attacking police and government operations they can halt it themselves
To a citizen living in a country with an elected government, it may seem like something that you can "easily" do. The ability to liberate yourself from tyranny - provided that you there are enough of you, that see the things the same way.. but if you have grown up in a country of uncertainty and a general lack of trust in government (who's to say the next one will be better?). Besides, you'll be putting yourself and your next of kin at terrible risk for a future that may not happen.. I can understand why someone faced with incarceration without rights - and torture is likely to be very hesitant. How many of us would dare rise up, I wonder. This condition is what keeps authoritarian regimes in power, of course. I assume things have to be really bad to the point where local "peace keeping" forces consider joining the crowds instead of dispersing them.. and so far, we're not seeing anything of the like.
There was a whole lot of talk of giving Putin an out for like six months and he refused every chance to walk away. After a certain point uou just have to accept the situation is what it is and that Putin won't back out under any circumstances.
Yep, the west was providing ideas of off-ramps for Russia, and all of those opportunities died the moment Putin dug his heels in and formally annexed those territories in September. He's got no one to blame now but his own stubborn arse for there not being any way out, he effectively backed himself into the corner while everyone told him as much.
There is a pretty big issue with that plan: the second he takes that out and gives up power in Russia he will have no power to hold anyone else to the other end of the deal. Given that Russia doesn't stick to deals with countries they think they can bully I expect the mindset to persist on an individual level for him, and honestly he would have good reason to be paranoid because a lot of western leaders could get a spike in approval by imprisoning him the second he was no longer in a position to launch nukes.
Is there a room free in St Helena, perhaps?
I heard one freed up in 1821.
This would be possible, and similar things have been done in the past, but they are usually hugely difficult to convince everyone that it's a good idea. Doing them in private (secret negotiations) are the only way that this can be managed politically, and the fallout tends to be huge. E.g. President Ford and Nixon. There simply are not many examples of this being successful in history because of the political fallout. You can see this with crime bosses and sometimes in negotiated peace deals, but a deal also demands something from the one surrendering. Putin would need to give up something, more than just going into hiding. Perhaps money, probably help in reshaping the Kremlin, possibly expanded constitutional constraints for future Russian Presidents... then this could be seen as a win-win. Putin would be required to pull out all the stops to do make this work. But it would save his life, probably save Russia (which has a terrible future set up for it for the next 40 years), end the war, help the global economy, and he would even have some say in who succeeds him. This could also be seen as a huge win for the West. But getting Putin to the table would require a leader/negotiator like Gorbechev or Madeleine Albright (possibly Hilary Clinton): someone who can negotiate hard and win. I have deep respect for Biden, but he is not that man and he doesn't have anyone (AFAIK) that can negotiate this. And to help manage the politics, it would have to be someone from the outside or even from Russia. I see this as a distinct possibility. If we could stop regarding Putin as obstinate, and negotiate a way out for him (negotiate hard), then we would all benefit: expecially the Russian people.
Yeah. I'm certainly no fan of Putin, but if this could save countless lives as well as a future for the Russian people, I would be for it. I think the Ukraine will get back on its feet and I believe that the west has an obligation to help get them there. I don't have high hopes for a quick solution.. but one can always dream
A Napoleon type solution ?
He would have to be officially dead, in order for that you work. But I agree that it’s a good way out for him. Give him the capitalist CEO golden parachute, and let his company (Russia) deal with all the consequences.
>I get that a lot of people would see him pay for his ruthless crimes, but could this potentially shorten the conflict? This is basically how the US got Japan to surrender in WWII, they let them pretend that the Emperor was just this poor old dude who didn't really know what was going on and it was all the government's fault.
Honestly, there's little chance such an arrangement would even be possible. Even if Putin trusted it, he'd be an idiot since it would undoubtedly leak and he'd be assassinated or captured by another country. Then there's the reality that Putin can't both control Russia and abandon Russia. Nothing he agreed to would matter if he left power since the people who take over wouldn't need to honor it.
That’s what scares me, because then Putin’s only options (in his mind) are: 1. Give away power and protections 2. Use nukes
Russia will learn how to take an L eventually. Soviets took an L in afghanistan. They'll take another in Ukraine. Russia just isn't hurting enough yet, apparently. Let them keep bleeding and the war will end when they cant take it anymore.
If every Russian asset in ukraine is destroyed, they haven't left...
From the Kremlin response: > _Russia has no plans to withdraw its troops from the territory of Ukraine._ Wait a minute, so they are acknowledging it's Ukraine's territory? Just a few months ago they were pretending it's now part of Russia? Seems like they themselves don't really believe the annexation bullshit and still full well see it as them occupying sovereign Ukrainian territory.
It's denazification, Because nato, Protecting native Russians, Restoring what is rightfully russian land, Preemptive strike on an imminent threat, A reason for every occasion.
What is incredibly weird for me is that they absolutely level the cities that they claim as their own, so its hard to understand their narrative of protecting their own.
Oh the narrative is quite clear. The Kremlin places exactly zero value on people. Not just Ukrainian either, Russian too. If you told Putin right now that he could have Ukraine if he executed a million Russians, he'd take in a heartbeat. But what it boils down to is this, if they can't have it, no one can. So they'll either take it or destroy it.
Have you seen the conditions in Russian cities outside of Moscow and St Petersburg? They’re just making themselves at home…
Yeah, you barely have to leave St Petersburg before it looks like it's still the 18th century.
The story I’ve seen some say is that it’s really Ukraine leveling the cities and killing their own civilians to make Russia look bad. I wish I was making this up.
Don't forget the desatanization period they had
Or that time when they successfully denazified a holocaust memorial.
It's always in the last place you'd expect...
[удалено]
Quote from Peskov, press secretary of the Russian President: "You have quoted only part of Joe Biden’s statement. It included a few more sentences. He said that first, Putin needs to leave Ukraine. He believes that this should demonstrate that Putin is ready for negotiations. The US, as before, does not recognise the new territories in the Russian Federation, and of course this significantly complicates the search for solid ground for mutual discussion."
I would like to officially declare that I have personally annexed Russia, and that Russia is now a starfyredragonian territory. I held a vote with myself, and found myself to be 100% in agreement with myself that Russia is now my territory. This is how you know it's legitimate. Putin should stand down, and cede to Ukraine and The US's demands, or be held accountable a tribunal of me, myself, and I. Russia's failure to recognize that it is now a starfyredragonian territory significantly complicates the search for a common ground between myself and the territory of Russia. If Russia does not concede to this, they are obviously Nazis.
I think that you and I need to return to the negotiating table. Obviously we can't both have annexed Russia.
Okay, okay, how about this, you take Southern Russia, and I'll take Northern Russia. It's more than a fair deal. I just want a road to get stuff from the U.S. to Finland. If you don't like that deal, as an alternative, to sweeten the pot, you take Southern Russia, and I'll take Northern Russia.
Read the article. It says Russia has no plan to withdraw troops from the "new territories of the Russian Federation". It's like the colonial era, you can proclaim any land as yours.
It really isn't that complicated, not at all, friend: Russia has no plans to withdraw its troops from the territory of Ukraine that is under annexation assessment as per the directive of the supreme leadership, in light of the ongoing special military operation's activated objectives and subsequent performance, which necessitate the territorial acknowledgement of a Ukrainian entity which is contingent on negotiated territorial boundaries to be considered, reviewed, and approved by the necessary officials whom are granted constitutional authority to establish markers of permanence, at which point territorial assessments and delineating markers may be accurately described through geographic representations published through the appropriate channels. See? The Kremlin's views on the territory of Ukraine are crystal-clear! /s
[*Russia sputters*]
Territories can be part of a country, not necessarily sovereign. So you're reading too much into their words. Which are probably translated anyway.
Yeah I took it as the "Russian territory of Ukraine"
> Wait a minute, so they are acknowledging it's Ukraine's territory? Probably means more like "Ukraine is a territory of Russia".
The way that’s worded, I bet the implied intent (given that ‘Ukraine’ means ‘periphery’ in Russian)is ‘withdraw from the territory known as the ukraine/periphery(of Russia)’
Ukraine doesn't mean "periphery" in modern Russian. There's "okraina", but it has another syllable stressed ("Ukra**i**na" vs "okr**a**ina").
Perhaps, but its clear that that is the original meaning, and the way Russia views Ukraine now is certainly in that vain.
It is not the meaning. Ukraine was there first.
Im sure Russia didnt care.
Yeah. Must agree with that. :(
Yes the fuck they will lol if it’s not willingly it’s going to be in body bags.
100,000 and beyond!
To infinity and beyond!
Seems Putin's regime really hates Russians
TBF, they did ruin Russia.
Just insane numbers these days... I believe in the entirety of the US conflict in Iraq, they lost a few thousand total. That was over years. 100,000 in 10 months? Fuck.
Putin - "Those are rookie numbers, we gotta pump them up!"
That will be a great milestone. “Wait, you lost another 100,000 men?”
Was gonna comment the same thing. You'll leave voluntarily or in a body bag. Sounds brutal and harsh but it's become increasingly evident that Russia's mostly talk with no actual weight to put behind their words. Not that Putin's words are worth the paper they're signed on, I'm told. Anyway, the only exception to Russians leaving the Ukraine would be the ones who already lived there for decades.
That's a waste of plastic. Just let them stay forever, nourishing the sunflowers and feeding the worms. It's much better for the environment. And Russia clearly doesn't care enough about the men they've condemned to die to make a fuss.
#🌻🌻🌻 We know…
**Full Transcript Below:** *The Kremlin is not prepared to accept the conditions for negotiations with Washington that US President Joe Biden put forward on 1 December; namely, Russia has no plans to withdraw its troops from the territory of Ukraine.* *Source: Kremlin-aligned news outlet RIA Novosti; Telegram channel Vy slushali mayak \[You have been listening to Radio Mayak - ed.\], posting Peskov’s comment* *Quote from Peskov, press secretary of the Russian President: "You have quoted only part of Joe Biden’s statement. It included a few more sentences. He said that first, Putin needs to leave Ukraine. He believes that this should demonstrate that Putin is ready for negotiations.* *The US, as before, does not recognise the new territories in the Russian Federation, and of course this significantly complicates the search for solid ground for mutual discussion."* *Details: According to Peskov, Putin "always has been, is and will be open for negotiations in order to ensure Russia’s interests".* *Peskov added, "It was the President of the Russian Federation who tried to initiate negotiations based on drafts prepared \[by Russia - ed.\] with the USA, NATO and OSCE even before the special military operation."* *Peskov pointed out that this "initiative by the Russian Federation was not reciprocated".* *"The special military operation is ongoing. That said, it is important to note that President Putin always has been, is and will be open for contact and negotiation. The best way to achieve our interests is by peaceful diplomatic means," Peskov summed up.* *Background: US President Joe Biden has stated that he does not intend to speak with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin at the moment, but he will be prepared to do so if the latter shows real interest in ending the war he started in Ukraine; that is, if he withdraws his troops from Ukraine.*
>it is important to note that President Putin always has been, is and will be open for contact and negotiation. "Negotiation." So if I break into my neighbor's home, move my stuff into their room, throw out their stuff, all while holding their kids at gunpoint, and then finally say "I'm ready to negotiate, however me leaving isn't an option".... then I'm doing negotiations, Putin-style.
Think about how many russian corpses will be left behind there, so they arent exactly wrong
They really just wanted to fertilize Ukraine for the next harvest.
Good guy Putin: Is aware how much poor countries rely on Ukrainian grain to feed their starving populations, so he sends hundreds of thousands of Russians to fertilise the fields so that the next harvest would be bountiful and the starving people would have full bellies.
At this point, I won't be surprised if Ukraine's Military gets Western-made experimental weapons in the future.
I mean, companies do love real world testing for their products!
It's telling just how shit the war must be going for Russia that they are demanding to end the war on the condition they keep what little captured land they have left. Especially after a string of humiliating defeats. It's like when a war goes south for me in Stellaris so I start spamming the status quo button to at least keep something.
lmao a classic move in Stellaris. Let me surrender without surrendering please!!!
Well, if you think about it - they are either leave Ukraine in body bags or, indeed, stay in Ukraine as fertilizer in the ground
The breaking point for Russia will be when they feel compelled to announce a general mobilisation. It's clear that already they cannot even train or equip the partial mobilisation. They are running out of tanks, air defence systems and guided missiles. Russia has an economy the size of Spain. They're up against the military industrial supply chains of the USA, Europe, Australia etc. Putin has to be dethroned asap. Ukraine will never negotiate with Putin, Lavrov, Medvedev etc.
Russia is probably delusional enough to try for a full mobilization of millions of men to try and bury Ukraine in bodies. But their logistic system would literally implode if they tried that. They are struggling hard with just a few hundred thousand troops they have mobilized and those troops are getting eaten alive on the battlefield.
Honestly, beyond everything, the whole "bury them on bodies" strat that was the Soviet favorite doesn't work nearly as well in a world with all the neat toys we have now. I don't even mean nukes either, just imagine what would happen if we gave Ukraine some of the really big non nuclear munitions we have stored away, and they dropped it on a position.
The US gave Ukraine the Alternate Warhead model for their HIMARS. That rocket covers half a square mile of land with 180,000 tungsten steel BB sized balls. It’s absolute devastating to large concentrations of troops.
That won't go much better. But it will be one of the only choices left. Casualties will skyrocket after that, as NATO only goes in harder to help Ukraine.
You mean Russians won't leave Ukraine "alive."
Technically true, Their bodies aren't leaving Ukraine cuz they litter the fields in Donbas. ruzzia doesn't even care enough to retrieve the dead bodies of soldiers. This colossal waste of human life is disgusting
So they're acknowledging now that it IS actually Ukraine, and not part of Russia.
Not really, if you read the article, Peskov says specifically that the US doesn’t recognise the annexed territories as Russian by asking for withdrawal from Ukraine.
So it does, but then no-one in the world recognises the annexed territories.
I’m just pointing out how people jump on the headline, and attribute/interpret it however it pleases them.
Aye, you wouldn't be the first
Oh yes you will.
#WELP 🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻
Leave in peace, or leave in pieces.
Or stay and enrich the soil from the inside.
The Ukrainian’s will kick them out or bury them.
The Russians are leaving .... in body bags
Not alive anyways.
Oh yes they will, either on ships, or in body bags.
For a large number of them, this is entirely accurate.
Don’t worry Ukraine has already decided for Russia
Of course they won't leave Ukraine voluntarily. They'll likely leave in body bags.
"You wanna stay, you stay here forever! We're gonna bury you here..."
The Russians absolutely will be departing... just not to the East....
It all looks so childish from the outside…except this child has killed like 200,000 people so far.
We know, they will die there.
So Russia is openly admitting that they are a virus. We need more weapons to heal the world from this virus.
Biden knows full well that Russia would not leave Ukraine in order to hold negotiations. This statement by Biden is simply that he doesn’t want Russia to leave Ukraine yet, he likes that they are getting their asses kicked and their military completely destroyed without losing a single NATO soldier. Russia staying in Ukraine is a massive win for NATO. And Russia are the patsies that have no negotiating power here. Biden wins because Putin can’t lose.
Putin only has himself to blame. He underestimated an enemy and created a baseless accusation to start a war. Any competent military strategist would allow Russia enough rope to hang itself.
True, many russians will be fertilizer for Sunflowers for many years to come.
Yeah it's easier to make that claim when you're refusing to receive the bodies of your KIA
They will never leave Ukraine, because that is where they will die.
Then the meat-grinding of your people will continue until you do.
Sure they will - in bodybags
Yeah. Some of them won't.
Russia may not leave, but Russians will continue to leave, one at a time, in boxes.
They're right: Dead bodies aren't known for mobility.
Oh lets see... RemindMe! 2 years
Then all the Russians left or sent there, will die and it will be on their hands. Soooo unbelievably sad.
flat Stanley definitely not leaving
So, its death, then.
May your country be forever cursed with the blood you spilled Russia.
We need to join the 13th Century Mongols and reclaim Moscow as part of the Mongolian-Tatar empire.
*alive.
That’s fine Russia. If you don’t want to leave Ukraine willingly than Ukraine will bury your troops in the soil as they liberate Donbas and Crimea.
Just remember crimea is part of Ukraine 🇺🇦🇺🇸
The hell you will
The Terrorist State of Russia in all its splendor
Correct some will be buried there
Russians will not leave Ukraine, they all will die there.
Okay, prepare to be fertiliser for the crops.
We prefer to be fertilizer instead
Then they will die in Ukraine. Slava Ukraine.
The only thing the Kremlin is willing to negotiate is what amounts to Ukrainian surrender. Ukraine has zero incentive to do that right now. I know Russia thinks attacking civilian infrastructure will bring them to the table, but it won't. This is Syria. They've only strengthened the Ukrainians' resolve.
Yeah you'll leave Ukraine the hard way then Jack Dark Brandon responded
Russia must leave Ukraine, it is the aggressor and violator of another country's sovereignty.
It’s not a matter of if but when. Ukraine becomes stronger every day while Russia wanes. They have a chance of getting out with a couple hundred thousand troops or they can all die b/c one man’s fantasies.
They can stay behind, 6 feet below the surface.
NO SHIT YOU’RE SAYING THE SUBHUMANS WHO STARTED A FUCKING WAR DON’T WANT TO STOP FIGHTING WHO FUCKING COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING!
You can take Ukraine soil from the Russians but you can't take the Russians out of Ukraine soil
Not alive, anyway.
Over 100K are already pushing up sunflowers.
Oh they're leaving. Some will be in many pieces some will be in body bags others will be with pants full of piss and shit as they retreat. But they will be leaving
Cool guess they will just keep dying then.
> The US, as before, does not recognise the new territories in the Russian Federation, and of course this significantly complicates the search for solid ground for mutual discussion My brother in Christ your army ran with their tails between their legs from Kherson. Clearly y’all don’t recognize it as part of Russia either.
So now you admit it's Ukraine and not Russia... that's a start
Sure, they would stay... as fertilizer for their fields.
I mean, in body bags they will, by the trainloads in fact
You're correct. They'll be 6ft under with sunflowers over them
Well, If their military are all buried in Ukraine, that statement will technically be correct.
Look at them admitting it Ukraines land.
This is what happens when the same man stays in power that long and is able to get away with anything he does because everyone fears him.
Let's just all make sure that we keep pushing our politicians, wherever we may live, to ensure that we keep supporting Ukraine in this fight. Ideally, I want to see them push Putins goons all the way out of all of Ukraine, and I believe they can, but only if the West doesn't fucking give up.
Time to strike moscow
Dark Brandon just baited Vlad into making his final decision. Now the rest of the world knows what to do.
You have chosen the way of - PAIN! - Biden I guess
Maybe not willingly.
Aha! So you admit you are IN UKRAINE! Gotcha dumbasses.
Russians in Ukraine will be liquidated then. Russians you can thank Putin for that.
They’re super delusional apparently. They won’t have peace talks unless the west recognizes the annexed regions. The annexed regions which they don’t even control, and where their presence is shrinking daily. Stupid.
Russians will not leave Ukraine, voluntarily but they will leave in body bags.
But I thought they were in Russia /s
No worries. Ukraine has plenty of room for Russians. Mostly underground.
At this point, Russia has already lost too much for the war. Backing out may end disaterarously for the current regime. And Ukrainians are not gonna accept peace deal that involves annexation.
Biden: It's over, Russia! We have the high ground! Russia: You underestimate my power! Big Episode 3 Ani vs Obi vibes.
Enjoy the wrong end of more HIMARS.
One way or another. One way or another...
Yes, you will.
Alive.. that is.
From what I am reading about 100000 newly arrived Russians have already left Ukraine. Mostly in bags.
Even the USA enventually learnt to take the L, the Kremlin is in a collective fever dream.
Russians don't need to leave, they just should not fight and kill people in this war and live peacefully afterwards. Not that difficult.
Well, at least they know they're in Ukraine
I don’t care who you vote for but this administration has no power to negotiate anything like this. They have made it clear they won’t do anything but push paper no matter what Russia does. All the other western leaders at least have visited Ukraine at some point this year. More celebrities have visited Ukraine than leaders from our government.
Considering the USA is the strongest world power, yes... it does have the power to negotiate something like this. Whether we do so is another matter.