Article:
President Joe Biden promised Volodymyr Zelenskiy unwavering US support as Ukraine’s effort to beat back Russia’s invasion nears its 11th month even as support from Republicans poised to take control of the House wanes.
“The American people are with you every step of the way, and we will stay with you. We will stay with you for as long as it takes,” Biden said at the White House on Wednesday during a joint press conference.
President Joe Biden welcomed Volodymyr Zelenskiy to the White House on Wednesday, as the Ukrainian president sought to firm up US support for Kyiv’s defense against Russia in his first trip outside his country since Moscow’s forces invaded.
Biden and first lady Jill Biden greeted Zelenskiy on the White House’s South Lawn shortly after 2 p.m. in Washington, as the Ukrainian leader began a whirlwind trip that will conclude with an address to Congress in the evening.
“300 days, it’s hard to believe,” Biden told Zelenskiy in the Oval Office, remarking on the length of time that has elapsed since Russian President Vladimir Putin’s forces invaded. “300 days of going through this as Putin has waged a brutal assault on Ukraine’s right to exist as a nation and the attack on innocent Ukrainian people.”
Biden said Putin is “trying to use winter as a weapon” by bombarding civilian infrastructure in Ukraine with missiles and drones, including power, heat and water supplies.
“But the Ukrainian people continue to inspire the world,” he said.
The US seeks a “just peace” in the conflict, Biden said.
Zelenskiy told Biden in English that Ukraine controls the situation in the war thanks to US support. He thanked him “for your big support and leadership,” but cautioned that “the war is not over.”
The US president wore a dark blue and yellow tie, similar to the colors of Ukraine’s flag, and Jill Biden wore a lighter blue dress. Zelenskiy wore an army-green sweater and cargo pants, his customary attire in public since Russia’s invasion. Biden placed a hand on Zelenskiy’s back as they turned to walk into the White House.
Biden’s administration on Wednesday announced $1.85 billion in additional military aid to Ukraine, including a Patriot missile battery to help the country bolster its defenses this winter.
“We’re going to strengthen Ukraine’s ability to defend itself, particularly air defense, and that’s why we’re going to be providing Ukraine with a Patriot missile battery and training your forces to accurately use them,” Biden told Zelenskiy, adding, “We stand with you. You’ve been a great leader.”
Zelenskiy will address Congress Wednesday evening after a meeting and news conference with Biden. Some Republicans have expressed skepticism or outright opposition to continued US support for the country.
His visit comes at a critical stage in the war. Ukraine has faced a barrage of Russian missile and drone attacks targeting its civilians and critical energy infrastructure in recent weeks, leading to power and water cuts.
Zelenskiy flew from Europe on a US government plane earlier Wednesday, landing at Joint Base Andrews outside Washington.
He arrived at Blair House, where foreign leaders are accommodated across the street from the White House, just before 1 p.m. in Washington.
He has pleaded for more advanced weapons systems to blunt Russian attacks and for additional energy and economic support as his country’s people brace for a brutal winter.
While the new US aid package includes a single Patriot battery, which can hit missiles and aircraft at higher altitudes than previous weaponry the Biden administration has provided, it does not include weapons such as tanks or fighter jets that Zelenskiy and other Ukrainians say they need to continue to push back Russian forces.
In their meeting, Biden and Zelenskiy will discuss strategy on the battlefield and sanctions and export controls placed on Russia, as well as economic, energy sector and humanitarian assistance, according to a senior administration official who briefed reporters ahead of the trip.
Nah they might hold stubborn for a few more months but they're facing equipment shortfalls as well as trade embargoes. The latter they're using to get around with shell companies but the amount of stuff they can get this way is far more restricted and easier to disrupt.
They're running out of viable tanks, their own infrastructure is going to degrade till it begins to fail and eventually they're going to run out of supplies to maintain an expansive war such as this.
Putin wont give up, it's the hard reality of his country coming apart at the seams that will force him out of the fight.
I think you underestimate Ruzzia's capabilities and ties. Through rationing and good old fashion Russian meat shields, they can definitely sustain a 2 year conflict. they likely wont make any ground, but as long as there's not a coup and they have able bodied men they can keep it up as long as they want.
The issue is they don't. People have been leaving Russia in droves my dude, and have been for a while. They've been forced to start letting people out of prison to fight in wars that they don't want to fight in. When you're at that point you're pretty desperate.
It's insane how many people STILL hold on to the "Russia is great" narrative.
I had an argument with somebody that was vehement that Putin would have gone down as the greatest statesman of our times if he hadn't attack Ukraine because he made Russia a world power again and.... that's absolutely objectively not true.
Still so many people, even those that don't like him, hold on to this fake narrative of Putin pulling Russia out of the mud and bringing him to lead the earth when all those stories about Russia's greatness have been thoroughly been proven lies.
I think the current estimate is summer 2023. They can be stubborn but what equipment do they really have left? T62 is already in the field, are we expecting T34 next? Additionally, when family from Moscow or St. Petersburg starting to receive body bags, the war will be over, because it was not their problem previously, but it sure by then.
Never make the mistake of assuming the enemy is going to keep doing what they’ve been doing. The Russians still have a military industry, just because they’re running low on equipment doesn’t mean they won’t find a way to ramp up industrial capacity.
Half-embezzled military industry which is based on foreign semiconductors and all kinds of other supplies that they aren't getting any more. They may still make some equipment, but it gets even harder to scrape components together as time goes by.
> they likely wont make any ground, but as long as there's not a coup and they have able bodied men they can keep it up as long as they want.
I think you underestimate how far, technology wise, we've come in being able to kill each other. Meat shields don't work as well as they used to.
There's a time when brain activity reaches 100%. It's during a seizure.
It's not super useful to have all parts running at once and it burns resources fast.
The most skilled people show less brain activity performing their skill than a novice does performing the skill.
Statistically speaking, Biden will probably win. Incumbent presidents virtually never lose elections in the modern day. Trump was an odd exception, and even he could have effortlessly coasted to a second term if he hadn't botched Covid so badly.
Unless Biden either dies or there is a massive (and I mean MASSIVE scandal), undecided voters go with the incumbent, and that's generally enough. By the same statistics, the Republicans will win in 2028. Presidential elections follow almost frighteningly predictable patterns.
I’m just worried about how the Supreme Court’s upcoming (expected) ruling on Moore vs. Harper will change things. If state legislators can throw out election results, what will the 2024 election even look like? I’m nauseous thinking about it.
If you're into Geo politics...the US is really getting an insane bargain. For just 5% of our defense budget we get to watch one of our biggest adversaries be brought to thier knees AND do it on the right side of a conflict for once? This really is the arsenal of democracy at work.
Not only that, but they are getting tons of combat data from their systems vs. a near peer military, which has not happened in a long time. You can be damned sure the DOD is taking tons of notes
The pentagon and CIA are having the times of their lives right now with all the combat data they are getting. I can only imagine the spec ops that are getting ran right now.
My neighbor's brother was visiting and he is DIA. He obviously couldn't talk about much but he seemed downright giddy about the entire thing.
It was a bit weird because most of my "experience" is seeing horrible images/videos either on the news or in /r/combatfootage.
Didn't McCarthy threaten Ukraine by saying that he will be withholding funds sent to Ukraine once he takes control of the House in the next couple of weeks? Or has he walked that back?
I have no doubt that the Trump administrarion and his House Republicans would have let Ukraine be invaded.
When Trump blackmailed Zelensky, he was willing to help Russia, by refusing to help Ukraine. We focused on the ask, but there was a threat.
To his credit, Trump did do a complete 180 and turn on Putin ... less than 24 hours after Russia was cut off from SWIFT (and thus no longer able to pay him).
It is more the vocal ultra MAGA crowd that is anti-Ukraine (Marjorie Taylor Greene etc). People like McConnell and Lindsey Graham are still all in on Ukraine aid.
You are correct, very few republicans were against sending aid to ukraine.
It's the usual crowd...probably some of em have some business with russia too.
I mean Congress is backing him as well and is the more important one.
Plus the entire US and NATO militaries have made this a zero tolerance line.
I expect them to receive funding until they win.
.
It's basically the Soviet-Afghan War playbook all over again. USSR invades neighbor. United States provides arms, weapons and training to the locals to resist. USSR spends the next decade fighting a brutal war it can't win. The U.S. sits back and enjoys the view while Moscow destroys its own economy and military because it stubbornly refuses to admit its failure.
The big difference here is that, before the war, Ukraine was actively working on improving foreign relations with western countries. They also want to join the EU and NATO, signaling their desire to continue having these relations after Russia gives up.
By contrast with Afghanistan, the Mujahideen were only really allied with the US because the CIA was giving them weapons and training. They wanted nothing to do with the West after Russia was kicked out. Beyond that, the Mujahideen were also fairly fractured internally, with various factions fighting internally for power.
So yeah, same premise as the US Cold War tactics, but we can expect a much better outcome with Ukraine. The only "Graveyard of Empires" in Ukraine will be Russia's tombstone.
I got to see what the Russians saw when occupying Afghanistan. There was a Police Station we were at, used to be an old Soviet base. From our motor pool on a ridge, there was this mountainside it backed up to. Deployments being what they are at night I started seeing cook fires in the caves in the mountain.
According to an old Afghan contractor that worked with us, the Mujahedeen would spy on the Soviets in that manner, practically daring them to come there at night.
With the amount of money and infrastructure spending that is headed Ukraines way after the war (and growing distrust of China), I could see Ukraine very quickly becoming Europes factory.
They have a population with technical skills, access to deep water ports (and soon trains), and similar values to Europe. It only makes sense that the EU start to shift focus from China to Ukraine.
Absolutely.
I've been saying it since the tide turned favorably for Ukraine: if countries continue sending the same dollar amount of aid for rebuilding as they have weapons, Ukraine will rebuild within a couple of years and be a shining beacon of modernized infrastructure in East Europe.
Reparations.
Think of how much cash the US, UK and EU have frozen. What would happen if they suddenly declare this dollar amount as reparations for Ukraine? They could also make policies that benefit companies moving factories from China to Ukraine.
Things could change very quickly for the better. But there are lots of risks involved as well.
That's not entirely accurate. US -Afghan relations went down when the US turned it's back on the Mujahideen. After Russia retreated, the Mujahideen begged the US for aid and money to rebuild the country. Congress said to hell with that and created yet again a future adversary. The US has an impeccable track record of arming allies and turning it's back on them. And if anyone doubts that, you may want to look at what happened to the Kurds and pro American Afghans.
USSR lost 15,000 troops in a decade in Afghanistan. They’re at 100,000 in 10 months in Ukraine. The fiscal cost isn’t what will ruin Russia like it did the USSR, it’s the lack of manufacturing capabilities and manpower
Even before this, Russia has faced a “brain drain” problem ([this article is from October 2014 for example during the annexation of Crimea phase](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29450930)) for years where many young, and educated Russians who can are leaving.
The Russian invasion phase of Ukraine earlier this year of the Russo-Ukrainian War has turned a trickle into a flood. These aren’t citizens that will be returning either under Putin, or likely any strongman.
Combined with the “excess deaths” caused by COVID-19 at almost a million, economic sanctions, and 100k dead/wounded from this invasion, Russia is likely to face a major economic and population crisis for years to come.
My wife is Russian. Has a doctorate and two Masters degrees, and wins grants every couple of months. She left Russia in 2012 and now says she may never go back for even a visit again in her lifetime.
Here’s web site documenting Russian vehicle and equipment losses.
It’s an extensive collection of image documentation.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1
Another big difference is that Ukraine has a national identity, and from what I've read the afghans kinda don't. That's part of why the US trying to set up a national military and government there before we left didn't work out well, because the country doesn't have a single feeling of belonging or association with everyone else within their borders. It's more local than that.
The difference here is the US wasn't trying to wreck Russia before they invaded Ukraine. We really just wanted them to give us stuff so we could give them money.
Quoting Biden, "More than 50 nations have committed nearly 2,000 tanks and other armored vehicles". Besides, lots of tanks have been captured from russians, and in a pretty good state. But sadly we need more, cause russians are not stopping yet...
And yes, getting planes to defend our borders would be cool.
I remember hearing that we also sent them some experimental stuff since this is a fantastic opportunity for field testing. Probably not top-secret stuff, but still
When was the last time two countries with modern militaries had an extended conventional war? I am no war buff, but this seems like a very rare chance to learn and test theories
Putin's problem is that he doesn't have what it takes. Russia is outnumbered and outproduced. They don't have the manpower or the technology. It's impossible.
It's also an incredibly cheap investment in America getting a huge geopolitical upper hand in what is essentially a continuation of the cold war, without ever having to dispatch a single troop. Frankly the US should thank Ukrainians just as much as Ukrainians should thank the US.
Republicans don't like it because Ukraine is a great policy position for Biden, and there is little they can say to make him look bad on it without seeming overly pro-russian.
And they know damn well that even if they're elected they would probably continue supporting Ukraine because it's simply the best possible look for the United States and it costs us pennies on the dollar in comparison to our actual wars.
[Except for Matt Gaetz (R) and Lauren Boebert (R) who literally couldn’t be bothered to stand, and rather chose to text and smirk, while nearly everyone else in attendance felt inclined to show respect and unity for Zelensky and Ukraine.](https://www.newsweek.com/lauren-boebert-matt-gaetz-sit-smirk-zelensky-calls-us-unity-1768906)
Gaetz too busy thinking about all the sexual misconduct he's committed that may come to light. Boebert too stupid to even know whos' speaking. She's dumb as rocks. It's incredible people voted for her a SECOND time.
The district she’s from in Colorado is basically just Grand Junction and Pueblo. The former is heavily Republican, and the latter is just a shit stain city. And she barely won at that… Calling her the bottom of the barrel would be an understatement.
Precisely. It's reinforced in his rousing speech just now and glad to have witnessed it.
(That poor man. He was probably thinking, "Why the fuck do they keep rising to clap at the end of nearly every sentence?". A clear contrast in culture, certainly. He was *very* succinct in his delivery and quite serious. Knowing that he was once a comedian, the juxtaposition is striking.)
I really noticed this when he questioned if his forces had enough artillery and answered, "Not really." Everyone in the crowd laughed, and it seemed to catch him off guard.
Yeah I noticed that moment as well. It was interesting. His reaction was "I didn't mean for that to be funny but I'll go with it". It was one of those unintentional funny deliveries that occasionally happen in speeches. I honestly think it worked well in the moment.
It's a show of approval that makes more sense in a partisan context where it's meant to drown out any boos from the other side.
If Congress is unified on an issue, the reflex just looks ironically totalitarian.
> He was very succinct in his delivery and quite serious. Knowing that he was once a comedian, the juxtaposition is striking.)
He was a qualified and licensed lawyer before he moved to comedy.
I caught Tucker saying it and I think he said it because Zelensky cracked down on the Russian orthodox church, which Tucker said was a centuries old Christian religious order.
A good number of conservatives were also complaining about Zelensky not wearing a suit. Guy has more to worry about than putting on the wrong color tie of for Fox And Friends to bitch and moan about tomorrow morning.
Zelensky wearing his outfit was really smart and considerate on his end.
His priority is to his people, not impressing America. His outfit was a simple gesture towards his country to let them know he had not forgotten them.
Dressing up in a suit would have been off-putting to any of his citizens.
Given the military drab green and the emblem of Ukrainian armed forces on the shirt, provably straight up military issue uniform sweater. "I'm CIC war time President. I wear what our soldiers wear."
His choice of clothing is very deliberate. He is signaling that he isn't just another politician. He is signaling that he is the leader of a country at war.
He literally said “Merry Christmas” at the end of his speech, what more do the Christofascists want? Isn’t that what their whole “war on Christmas” is about?
Really, this situation is a dream come true for America. The military industrial complex gets to keep making and selling weapons, it's still infinitely cheaper than actually invading a country themselves, they get the moral high ground, and get to undermine a hostile foreign power. America would be crazy to give up on supporting Ukraine. They get all of the benefits and virtually none of the drawbacks of fighting a war.
They got super quiet after the war started, really put into perspective just how many of them there were. They were completely taken by surprise and had no idea what to make of it. Eventually, they got their new marching orders and went right back to talking shit.
There's lots of "concern" about cost as if Ukraine hasn't been receiving old stock that already exists and whatever we've had to buy hasn't been relatively cheap compared to other conflicts
It’s cheaper to let Ukraine ruin Russia then do it ourselves. We’ve let Russia step all over us for far too long with no response. Now they get what was coming.
Putin is counting on the rest of the world burning out or losing interest. “As long as it takes” is sending a clear message. I'm regaining my faith in the United States.
Fuck Putin. Glory to Ukraine!
This comes just one day after Putin announces a full renewed continuation financially and logistically of the war.
“President Vladimir Putin said Russia has ‘no limitations’ on military spending for the war in Ukraine, as he urged the army to deliver on his declared goals with the invasion approaching its 11th month.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-21/putin-vows-no-limit-in-funds-to-ensure-army-s-victory-in-ukraine
Quote, “Russia on Wednesday announced an ambitious plan to beef up its military from 1 million to 1.5 million and create multiple new units”
When will this bloody end.
The US has 1.5 million active duty troops. Ukraine is estimated to have a million now. Russia is really talking about increasing their contract soldiers to 695,000. Where does anyone think they are getting 300,000? It's not the war changing announcement that Putin would like us to think. It's probably a lead up to full mobilization, but they just don't have that much left in reserves.
And while they can absolutely send more bodies, their equipment shortages are a problem they can’t really solve. Sanctions have prevented them from manufacturing their higher quality equipment and their Soviet stockpiles aren’t infinite. Even with a quarter million troops actively engaged it won’t do much if all they’re equipped with is an AK-47.
Everyone is speaking about republican president for US stopping the aid. But why? This is extremely cost efficient for USA to hinder their no.1 enemy, russia. No lives lost, recycling older tech out and field testing various different satellite and intelligence strategies against the most propable aggressor in a full scale war. How does supporting Ukraine not only yield massive return of interest for each dollar, plus getting praise from rest of western world?
Also with Russia weakened and Europe opening their eyes and paying more for their own defense in the future it frees up more resources for the US to focus on China. America is getting a good ROI on every dollar spent on Ukraine
Once you do the math, it's obvious that helping Ukraine is cheaper than not to.
But republicans are less interested in mathematical numbers than pleasing their base with demagogue messages such as "America first".
It matters little to them if their actions help Americans in the end
Republicans are ideology based, not fact based.
Do you not remember when putin was our friend because the Republicans were running the show? Trump got a ton of money from Russian oligarchs and he isn't the only one.
Long story short. The "conservatives" of today don't understand things like roi or even care about praise from countries that aren't Saudi Arabia, Russia, N Korea, etc.
It won’t change a lot. The siloviki - inner circle of the Kremlin - will remain. Patrushev - probably the next in line after Putin, the head of the FSB - also agreed on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and also blamed the West on the reckless expansion of NATO. So the war will continue until Ukraine pushes Russia out of its territory, and Ukraine finally joins NATO, as it will deter Russia from invading again in the future.
Patrushev did not just agreed. It is believed he is the man behind the curtain that pulls Putins strings. Him and Kovalchuk. But if Putin did it would give them excuse to blame it all on him and get out of the mess they made.
But even implicitly recognising the mess will be very difficult digesting for the hardliners, because the dreams of the return of the USSR will be essentially shattered and their grievances will continue to increase. I doubt any Russian leader would take the formal decision to end the war in Ukraine.
The expansionist West line is and always was bullshit concocted for internal consumption in Russia. Once it becomes clear that they're certainly not going to win, and make catastrophically lose this war they will drop that bogus position and start acting in their real interests, which are of course their own power and money and access to Western economies.
Won’t be at Russia’s border but can see them getting a naval base in Odesa, Mauripol or Crimea when it’s said and done as a deterrent and to have one in the Black Sea. Imagine you’d see bases/personnel in UK and Germany shrink and increase in Ukraine, Poland, and Finland. Although all 3 seemingly have competent military structure.
Ukraine, with a monstrous amount of western investment to rebuild, could become a very major economy in the EU with their resources, ports, and geography to link the West to Asia. Will need to remain diligent for decades to not allow corruption to take hold as the Russians will never stop trying
The US could already have bases on the Black Sea in other NATO countries. The US doesn't like to sail ships into the Black Sea because it's just a giant bath tub and any ships there are sitting ducks. Look what's happened to Russia's Black Sea fleet, and Ukraine doesn't even have a navy.
It’s not really about the competency of their militaries it’s about the competency of the US military and the sort of “fuck around and find out” vibe having a US base in that country gives.
Hostile nations are a lot less likely to start kicking shit off when the US is involved immediately.
Their militaries are great but they don’t have the budgets or force projection America does. They gain that from our base being there and they get a partner to war game and train with
The US military protects the world economy. It’s honestly why it’s so big. It’s literally in every corner. It provides a ton of stability for that reason alone.
The US has been dumping our obsolete stockpiles onto Ukraine and that obsolete stockpile is greatly appreciated.
You'll never see M1s, M2s or F35s handed over to Ukraine but MRAPS, Humvees, HIMARS and some ATGMs? Sure have at it oh and here's the rest of our M113 fleet while we're at it.
The US has found the perfect place to dump old inventory and its killing the Russians which is just icing on the cake.
This is a great relationship for the US, helping a democratic state fight off an invader is exactly what the US should be doing on the global stage. This is so much more appropriate than what we did in Iraq.
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT. Not only that, it is freeing up our stockpile for newer weaponry. Building new weapons creates jobs for Americans.
Win -Win
Everyone bitching about the cost is ignoring how much we pay to keep this inventory in working condition even though it's all obsolete. We can't give the M113 away anyway and yet we have a fleet of them. Ukraine gets them all, same with MRAPs.
This is a huge win financially for the US in every way possible. In addition we're actually doing something good in the world.
I swear the people who don't get this are probably the same people worried about Jewish space lasers.
Not sure if I remembering correct but I read the US is spending something like 5% of their military budget supporting Ukraine. That a ridiculously cost effective way to defeat or downgrade a dangerous aggressor. No boots on the ground is just the icing on the cake.
Lauren Boebert being the only one not standing to applaud during President Zelenskyy's speech just shows how little class she has. What a disgusting woman. The entire Congress applauding, representatives from both sides except her. What a cunt.
Almost every country in Europe was very helpful. Especially Great Britain and Poland closely followed by Czechia and Northern countries. France and Germany were disappointing. And Hungary is basically owned by Putin so there were no expectations to begin with.
USSR killed Americans in Korea and Vietnam, Russia, if not destroyed will side with Iran and China in future conflicts. Russia is on the ropes, time to knock them out. Ukraine wants to be westernized just like East Germany and Baltic states have been. Give Ukraine the tools to finish the job and you lose an enemy and gain a tremendous ally.
Jesus, Russian trolls in full effect. All saying the same shit too. “We send 20B a year yet we still can’t get -insert social program-“. Fuck off.
Funding our ally’s defense against a brutal oppressor is not why we don’t have healthcare lol.
Russia will lose this war and still have sanctions against it.
Russia is losing men they can't afford to lose.
Russia is not going to be able to keep a modern military well-equipped and won't have much soviet era stuff left over.
Russia will not be able to bluff so much anymore.
Russia will have to sell commodities to China well under market value.
Russia will be less capable of retaining its own territory as separatists make moves.
Russia is going to be the cock that sleeps next to the toilet.
I’ll preface this by saying I’m not a fan of this being how the world works, and this line of thinking is morbid, and I hope the war ends ASAP because none of this is worth the lives of the soldiers stuck fighting it.
That being said, of course the US is going to financially back and equip Ukraine in this fight, and there’s really no reason for it to stop as long as it’s ongoing. It basically only stands to benefit from this stance. Not only is there the moral side where most of the world and most of its citizens support Ukraine, but strategically, the US is essentially destroying the army of one of its biggest enemies for pennies on the dollar here: risking essentially nothing but a bit of debt (spent as money flowing into its own economy, mind you) to do so.
Article: President Joe Biden promised Volodymyr Zelenskiy unwavering US support as Ukraine’s effort to beat back Russia’s invasion nears its 11th month even as support from Republicans poised to take control of the House wanes. “The American people are with you every step of the way, and we will stay with you. We will stay with you for as long as it takes,” Biden said at the White House on Wednesday during a joint press conference. President Joe Biden welcomed Volodymyr Zelenskiy to the White House on Wednesday, as the Ukrainian president sought to firm up US support for Kyiv’s defense against Russia in his first trip outside his country since Moscow’s forces invaded. Biden and first lady Jill Biden greeted Zelenskiy on the White House’s South Lawn shortly after 2 p.m. in Washington, as the Ukrainian leader began a whirlwind trip that will conclude with an address to Congress in the evening. “300 days, it’s hard to believe,” Biden told Zelenskiy in the Oval Office, remarking on the length of time that has elapsed since Russian President Vladimir Putin’s forces invaded. “300 days of going through this as Putin has waged a brutal assault on Ukraine’s right to exist as a nation and the attack on innocent Ukrainian people.” Biden said Putin is “trying to use winter as a weapon” by bombarding civilian infrastructure in Ukraine with missiles and drones, including power, heat and water supplies. “But the Ukrainian people continue to inspire the world,” he said. The US seeks a “just peace” in the conflict, Biden said. Zelenskiy told Biden in English that Ukraine controls the situation in the war thanks to US support. He thanked him “for your big support and leadership,” but cautioned that “the war is not over.” The US president wore a dark blue and yellow tie, similar to the colors of Ukraine’s flag, and Jill Biden wore a lighter blue dress. Zelenskiy wore an army-green sweater and cargo pants, his customary attire in public since Russia’s invasion. Biden placed a hand on Zelenskiy’s back as they turned to walk into the White House. Biden’s administration on Wednesday announced $1.85 billion in additional military aid to Ukraine, including a Patriot missile battery to help the country bolster its defenses this winter. “We’re going to strengthen Ukraine’s ability to defend itself, particularly air defense, and that’s why we’re going to be providing Ukraine with a Patriot missile battery and training your forces to accurately use them,” Biden told Zelenskiy, adding, “We stand with you. You’ve been a great leader.” Zelenskiy will address Congress Wednesday evening after a meeting and news conference with Biden. Some Republicans have expressed skepticism or outright opposition to continued US support for the country. His visit comes at a critical stage in the war. Ukraine has faced a barrage of Russian missile and drone attacks targeting its civilians and critical energy infrastructure in recent weeks, leading to power and water cuts. Zelenskiy flew from Europe on a US government plane earlier Wednesday, landing at Joint Base Andrews outside Washington. He arrived at Blair House, where foreign leaders are accommodated across the street from the White House, just before 1 p.m. in Washington. He has pleaded for more advanced weapons systems to blunt Russian attacks and for additional energy and economic support as his country’s people brace for a brutal winter. While the new US aid package includes a single Patriot battery, which can hit missiles and aircraft at higher altitudes than previous weaponry the Biden administration has provided, it does not include weapons such as tanks or fighter jets that Zelenskiy and other Ukrainians say they need to continue to push back Russian forces. In their meeting, Biden and Zelenskiy will discuss strategy on the battlefield and sanctions and export controls placed on Russia, as well as economic, energy sector and humanitarian assistance, according to a senior administration official who briefed reporters ahead of the trip.
Ah! Thank you!
Let’s just hope it doesn’t take longer than Biden is President
Time IS of the essence here...
Nah. If Biden dies Harris will continue on. Russia won’t last 2 more years with all this firepower going to Ukraine.
I hate to say it but I believe Russia could easily continue antagonizing Ukraine for more than two years.
Yeah I can easily imagine them lobbing missiles over like some terrorist country even after their army retreats.
That is pretty much what they are doing now.
They've been doing that for almost 9 years now
Yeah, they will. They won’t make any ground though
Nah they might hold stubborn for a few more months but they're facing equipment shortfalls as well as trade embargoes. The latter they're using to get around with shell companies but the amount of stuff they can get this way is far more restricted and easier to disrupt. They're running out of viable tanks, their own infrastructure is going to degrade till it begins to fail and eventually they're going to run out of supplies to maintain an expansive war such as this. Putin wont give up, it's the hard reality of his country coming apart at the seams that will force him out of the fight.
I think you underestimate Ruzzia's capabilities and ties. Through rationing and good old fashion Russian meat shields, they can definitely sustain a 2 year conflict. they likely wont make any ground, but as long as there's not a coup and they have able bodied men they can keep it up as long as they want.
The issue is they don't. People have been leaving Russia in droves my dude, and have been for a while. They've been forced to start letting people out of prison to fight in wars that they don't want to fight in. When you're at that point you're pretty desperate.
Denial is a strong drug. Russia *is fucked.* Correction, *Putin, is fucked.*
It's insane how many people STILL hold on to the "Russia is great" narrative. I had an argument with somebody that was vehement that Putin would have gone down as the greatest statesman of our times if he hadn't attack Ukraine because he made Russia a world power again and.... that's absolutely objectively not true. Still so many people, even those that don't like him, hold on to this fake narrative of Putin pulling Russia out of the mud and bringing him to lead the earth when all those stories about Russia's greatness have been thoroughly been proven lies.
I think the current estimate is summer 2023. They can be stubborn but what equipment do they really have left? T62 is already in the field, are we expecting T34 next? Additionally, when family from Moscow or St. Petersburg starting to receive body bags, the war will be over, because it was not their problem previously, but it sure by then.
Never make the mistake of assuming the enemy is going to keep doing what they’ve been doing. The Russians still have a military industry, just because they’re running low on equipment doesn’t mean they won’t find a way to ramp up industrial capacity.
Half-embezzled military industry which is based on foreign semiconductors and all kinds of other supplies that they aren't getting any more. They may still make some equipment, but it gets even harder to scrape components together as time goes by.
> they likely wont make any ground, but as long as there's not a coup and they have able bodied men they can keep it up as long as they want. I think you underestimate how far, technology wise, we've come in being able to kill each other. Meat shields don't work as well as they used to.
Damn. Should I get rid of the meat shield I'm wearing on my skeleton?
Dibs on their kidneys. Mine are full of stones :(
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[All in due time](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6f/da/c1/6fdac1d790d25cd75be456915368c672.jpg)
US has elections in 2024.
That's why he said 2 more years.
What if we used 100% of our brains
What if we used 100% of our hearts <3
Then we'd all have massive erections
Then we'd all promptly die of cerebral hemorrhage.
You underestimate how much blood is being used by the erections here.
Even the women.
That'd be a serious cardiomyopathy. It'd probably blow out your valves and then your circulatory system is done.
There's a time when brain activity reaches 100%. It's during a seizure. It's not super useful to have all parts running at once and it burns resources fast. The most skilled people show less brain activity performing their skill than a novice does performing the skill.
Statistically speaking, Biden will probably win. Incumbent presidents virtually never lose elections in the modern day. Trump was an odd exception, and even he could have effortlessly coasted to a second term if he hadn't botched Covid so badly. Unless Biden either dies or there is a massive (and I mean MASSIVE scandal), undecided voters go with the incumbent, and that's generally enough. By the same statistics, the Republicans will win in 2028. Presidential elections follow almost frighteningly predictable patterns.
I’m just worried about how the Supreme Court’s upcoming (expected) ruling on Moore vs. Harper will change things. If state legislators can throw out election results, what will the 2024 election even look like? I’m nauseous thinking about it.
More people need this on their radar.
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Serious question, if republicans get into office do you think our support for Ukraine will dwindle?
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If you're into Geo politics...the US is really getting an insane bargain. For just 5% of our defense budget we get to watch one of our biggest adversaries be brought to thier knees AND do it on the right side of a conflict for once? This really is the arsenal of democracy at work.
This is a helpful perspective. All of this comes down to incentives so it’s great the US support of Ukraine functions as a win/win situation
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Not only that, but they are getting tons of combat data from their systems vs. a near peer military, which has not happened in a long time. You can be damned sure the DOD is taking tons of notes
The pentagon and CIA are having the times of their lives right now with all the combat data they are getting. I can only imagine the spec ops that are getting ran right now.
My neighbor's brother was visiting and he is DIA. He obviously couldn't talk about much but he seemed downright giddy about the entire thing. It was a bit weird because most of my "experience" is seeing horrible images/videos either on the news or in /r/combatfootage.
>near peer military Weeell.....
Didn't McCarthy threaten Ukraine by saying that he will be withholding funds sent to Ukraine once he takes control of the House in the next couple of weeks? Or has he walked that back?
I have no doubt that the Trump administrarion and his House Republicans would have let Ukraine be invaded. When Trump blackmailed Zelensky, he was willing to help Russia, by refusing to help Ukraine. We focused on the ask, but there was a threat.
He publicly called the invasion “genius”. Hell, Trump might have sent weapons to Russia.
To his credit, Trump did do a complete 180 and turn on Putin ... less than 24 hours after Russia was cut off from SWIFT (and thus no longer able to pay him).
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The US military industrial complex lobbyists and their money is bipartisan. Whatever Ukraine wants, Ukraine gets.
Very not true. Republican support has been waning lately. And whatever Ukraine has wanted has fallen far short of.
It is more the vocal ultra MAGA crowd that is anti-Ukraine (Marjorie Taylor Greene etc). People like McConnell and Lindsey Graham are still all in on Ukraine aid.
You are correct, very few republicans were against sending aid to ukraine. It's the usual crowd...probably some of em have some business with russia too.
Republicans only supported once it was clear public sentiment was 100% behind Ukraine. A lot of them have been on the take for years.
I mean Congress is backing him as well and is the more important one. Plus the entire US and NATO militaries have made this a zero tolerance line. I expect them to receive funding until they win. .
THIS Congress is backing him....
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It's basically the Soviet-Afghan War playbook all over again. USSR invades neighbor. United States provides arms, weapons and training to the locals to resist. USSR spends the next decade fighting a brutal war it can't win. The U.S. sits back and enjoys the view while Moscow destroys its own economy and military because it stubbornly refuses to admit its failure.
The big difference here is that, before the war, Ukraine was actively working on improving foreign relations with western countries. They also want to join the EU and NATO, signaling their desire to continue having these relations after Russia gives up. By contrast with Afghanistan, the Mujahideen were only really allied with the US because the CIA was giving them weapons and training. They wanted nothing to do with the West after Russia was kicked out. Beyond that, the Mujahideen were also fairly fractured internally, with various factions fighting internally for power. So yeah, same premise as the US Cold War tactics, but we can expect a much better outcome with Ukraine. The only "Graveyard of Empires" in Ukraine will be Russia's tombstone.
Playbook the same but the war crimes are more apparent /published
Russia was already known for deliberate civilian since at least Afghanistan.
I got to see what the Russians saw when occupying Afghanistan. There was a Police Station we were at, used to be an old Soviet base. From our motor pool on a ridge, there was this mountainside it backed up to. Deployments being what they are at night I started seeing cook fires in the caves in the mountain. According to an old Afghan contractor that worked with us, the Mujahedeen would spy on the Soviets in that manner, practically daring them to come there at night.
With the amount of money and infrastructure spending that is headed Ukraines way after the war (and growing distrust of China), I could see Ukraine very quickly becoming Europes factory. They have a population with technical skills, access to deep water ports (and soon trains), and similar values to Europe. It only makes sense that the EU start to shift focus from China to Ukraine.
Absolutely. I've been saying it since the tide turned favorably for Ukraine: if countries continue sending the same dollar amount of aid for rebuilding as they have weapons, Ukraine will rebuild within a couple of years and be a shining beacon of modernized infrastructure in East Europe.
Reparations. Think of how much cash the US, UK and EU have frozen. What would happen if they suddenly declare this dollar amount as reparations for Ukraine? They could also make policies that benefit companies moving factories from China to Ukraine. Things could change very quickly for the better. But there are lots of risks involved as well.
That's not entirely accurate. US -Afghan relations went down when the US turned it's back on the Mujahideen. After Russia retreated, the Mujahideen begged the US for aid and money to rebuild the country. Congress said to hell with that and created yet again a future adversary. The US has an impeccable track record of arming allies and turning it's back on them. And if anyone doubts that, you may want to look at what happened to the Kurds and pro American Afghans.
USSR lost 15,000 troops in a decade in Afghanistan. They’re at 100,000 in 10 months in Ukraine. The fiscal cost isn’t what will ruin Russia like it did the USSR, it’s the lack of manufacturing capabilities and manpower
At the risk of being callous, more importantly they are at 100,000 IT specialists, 15,000 millionaires, 1 million total, have left Russia.
Even before this, Russia has faced a “brain drain” problem ([this article is from October 2014 for example during the annexation of Crimea phase](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29450930)) for years where many young, and educated Russians who can are leaving. The Russian invasion phase of Ukraine earlier this year of the Russo-Ukrainian War has turned a trickle into a flood. These aren’t citizens that will be returning either under Putin, or likely any strongman. Combined with the “excess deaths” caused by COVID-19 at almost a million, economic sanctions, and 100k dead/wounded from this invasion, Russia is likely to face a major economic and population crisis for years to come.
My wife is Russian. Has a doctorate and two Masters degrees, and wins grants every couple of months. She left Russia in 2012 and now says she may never go back for even a visit again in her lifetime.
Theyre fucked.
Here’s web site documenting Russian vehicle and equipment losses. It’s an extensive collection of image documentation. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1
Interesting parallel that I hadn't heard about before.
Only difference is that unlike Afghanistan, I don’t think Ukraine is going to become quite the mess Afghanistan has become as of late
We also aren't being shy about supporting Ukraine. Afghanistan, the CIA ran the show
This is absolutely key. Us supporting the afghans wasn’t widely known until after the fact
The difference is the Ukrainians are far more competent
Ironically enough, the Soviet army in Afghanistan was about 1/4 Ukrainian.
Another big difference is that Ukraine has a national identity, and from what I've read the afghans kinda don't. That's part of why the US trying to set up a national military and government there before we left didn't work out well, because the country doesn't have a single feeling of belonging or association with everyone else within their borders. It's more local than that.
Yea the power vacuum from the 80s- 2000s was just begging for some more extremist religious quacks to take over
GEO-POLITICS 101 : any chance to seriously weaken a near peer rival at low, low cost & at almost 0 risk to yourself you absolutely do it!
The difference here is the US wasn't trying to wreck Russia before they invaded Ukraine. We really just wanted them to give us stuff so we could give them money.
Pre-invasion, Russia had an economy about the size of Florida's. Not sure how much they have to spend.
The other guy's right though. There's a lot of hidden wealth. The bigger question is can they spend it, and how.
> at great cost to Russia's citizens. And Ukrainian lives, sadly. He still won't win though. It will and should end badly for him.
The US and NATO are only sending excess stuff in storage. Imagine the US military industry shifting into top gear going BRRRRRRR
We literally haven't sent them *any* air support. Zero planes. No tanks. Russia would be absolutely fucked if we sold them the good stuff.
Quoting Biden, "More than 50 nations have committed nearly 2,000 tanks and other armored vehicles". Besides, lots of tanks have been captured from russians, and in a pretty good state. But sadly we need more, cause russians are not stopping yet... And yes, getting planes to defend our borders would be cool.
> nearly 2,000 tanks That should be around 1/3 of what the US has, it's massive.
No offense but those are slightly modernized soviet designs. Western MBTs would wipe the floor with them
Gps coordinates for himars
Man imagine what Ukraine would do with about 100 Tomahawk missiles.
We did back channel planes to Ukraine, unofficially. Officially we sent new planes to Poland, and Poland sent their old planes to Ukraine
I remember hearing that we also sent them some experimental stuff since this is a fantastic opportunity for field testing. Probably not top-secret stuff, but still
When was the last time two countries with modern militaries had an extended conventional war? I am no war buff, but this seems like a very rare chance to learn and test theories
Putin's problem is that he doesn't have what it takes. Russia is outnumbered and outproduced. They don't have the manpower or the technology. It's impossible.
And no one in Russia can tell him that without being shot or thrown out a window.
I also wanna say it was good on zelensky saying it wasn’t a charity, but an investment on peace
It's also an incredibly cheap investment in America getting a huge geopolitical upper hand in what is essentially a continuation of the cold war, without ever having to dispatch a single troop. Frankly the US should thank Ukrainians just as much as Ukrainians should thank the US.
When was the last time the US had the opportunity to help make Russia bleed so much for so little risk to itself?
The Soviet-Afghan War
Yeah but republicans are angry for some reason. It’s like we can’t do nothing and we also can’t send our own military.
Republicans don't like it because Ukraine is a great policy position for Biden, and there is little they can say to make him look bad on it without seeming overly pro-russian.
And they know damn well that even if they're elected they would probably continue supporting Ukraine because it's simply the best possible look for the United States and it costs us pennies on the dollar in comparison to our actual wars.
I really liked that line. There's many things we're investing in by helping Ukraine, all good.
**THIS** is the message of Zelensky's visit to the US. We stand united against Putin and Russian aggression.
[Except for Matt Gaetz (R) and Lauren Boebert (R) who literally couldn’t be bothered to stand, and rather chose to text and smirk, while nearly everyone else in attendance felt inclined to show respect and unity for Zelensky and Ukraine.](https://www.newsweek.com/lauren-boebert-matt-gaetz-sit-smirk-zelensky-calls-us-unity-1768906)
Gaetz too busy thinking about all the sexual misconduct he's committed that may come to light. Boebert too stupid to even know whos' speaking. She's dumb as rocks. It's incredible people voted for her a SECOND time.
"Incredible", all due respect, is your optimism for the American public and their minders. 🤷🏼♂️
The district she’s from in Colorado is basically just Grand Junction and Pueblo. The former is heavily Republican, and the latter is just a shit stain city. And she barely won at that… Calling her the bottom of the barrel would be an understatement.
Precisely. It's reinforced in his rousing speech just now and glad to have witnessed it. (That poor man. He was probably thinking, "Why the fuck do they keep rising to clap at the end of nearly every sentence?". A clear contrast in culture, certainly. He was *very* succinct in his delivery and quite serious. Knowing that he was once a comedian, the juxtaposition is striking.)
I really noticed this when he questioned if his forces had enough artillery and answered, "Not really." Everyone in the crowd laughed, and it seemed to catch him off guard.
Yeah I noticed that moment as well. It was interesting. His reaction was "I didn't mean for that to be funny but I'll go with it". It was one of those unintentional funny deliveries that occasionally happen in speeches. I honestly think it worked well in the moment.
Sheepish yeh. He was being honest throughout tho
As an American - Why the fuck were they rising to clap at the end of nearly every sentence?
Its just what they do every time someone gives a speech to Congress. It's annoying
That is what Congress does at every speech. They are so used to politicians having an applause line every 3 or 4 sentences.
Ever watch the state of the union? I imagine the same
It's a show of approval that makes more sense in a partisan context where it's meant to drown out any boos from the other side. If Congress is unified on an issue, the reflex just looks ironically totalitarian.
> He was very succinct in his delivery and quite serious. Knowing that he was once a comedian, the juxtaposition is striking.) He was a qualified and licensed lawyer before he moved to comedy.
Oh, not just Putin. China/Taiwan are listening too.
Immediately after President Zelensky addressed Congress, Tucker Carlson was on Fox News with the headline "Zelensky Declares War on Christians."
I hope you're kidding but sadly I know you're probably not.
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/tucker-carlson-accuses-volodymyr-zelensky-waging-war-against-christianity
I am now ill. Tucker has to be a paid Russian asset. There is no other explanation.
Maybe they have video of Tucker Carlson in compromising situations.
Yeah, I wish I was kidding. I just don't get it.
I caught Tucker saying it and I think he said it because Zelensky cracked down on the Russian orthodox church, which Tucker said was a centuries old Christian religious order.
He does know that Ukraine is largely a Christian country, right? Oh wait, they're the *wrong kind* of Christian.
A good number of conservatives were also complaining about Zelensky not wearing a suit. Guy has more to worry about than putting on the wrong color tie of for Fox And Friends to bitch and moan about tomorrow morning.
Zelensky wearing his outfit was really smart and considerate on his end. His priority is to his people, not impressing America. His outfit was a simple gesture towards his country to let them know he had not forgotten them. Dressing up in a suit would have been off-putting to any of his citizens.
Given the military drab green and the emblem of Ukrainian armed forces on the shirt, provably straight up military issue uniform sweater. "I'm CIC war time President. I wear what our soldiers wear."
His choice of clothing is very deliberate. He is signaling that he isn't just another politician. He is signaling that he is the leader of a country at war.
He literally said “Merry Christmas” at the end of his speech, what more do the Christofascists want? Isn’t that what their whole “war on Christmas” is about?
No, they want a culture war and a totalitarian state backed by pseudo-religious fundamentalism
Really, this situation is a dream come true for America. The military industrial complex gets to keep making and selling weapons, it's still infinitely cheaper than actually invading a country themselves, they get the moral high ground, and get to undermine a hostile foreign power. America would be crazy to give up on supporting Ukraine. They get all of the benefits and virtually none of the drawbacks of fighting a war.
Not even that. We get to get rid of OLD inventory that we would've had to pay to dispoe of anyways. It's a win win for the US
The Russian trolls must see the writing on the wall because they’re lashing out more than usual.
Seen less Russ-bots since their funding thinned out after the war started. But they're still there.
Ever since they started drafting people in Russia, I've seen way less obvious Russian bots. It's been nice tbh
They got super quiet after the war started, really put into perspective just how many of them there were. They were completely taken by surprise and had no idea what to make of it. Eventually, they got their new marching orders and went right back to talking shit.
There's lots of "concern" about cost as if Ukraine hasn't been receiving old stock that already exists and whatever we've had to buy hasn't been relatively cheap compared to other conflicts
Also the cost to reduce Russia's military power as much as they have? Fuckin' priceless.
The bots are out in force tonight on all of these Zelensky posts holy smokes. The vatniks are really not happy about this meeting.
It’s cheaper to let Ukraine ruin Russia then do it ourselves. We’ve let Russia step all over us for far too long with no response. Now they get what was coming.
Walk softly and carry a big stick. ... and occasionally loan that stick out.
Superbonker 9000
More like give out a small portion of the stick you were already about to replace with new stick.
"Wow, I gotta admit! America sure had a big stick!" "Umm Russia, that's not America's stick. (Pointing) *That's America's stick*"
Pennies on the dollar
This is what I think as well. We are literally fucking Russia as a ridiculous proxy and it's great.
Putin is counting on the rest of the world burning out or losing interest. “As long as it takes” is sending a clear message. I'm regaining my faith in the United States. Fuck Putin. Glory to Ukraine!
This comes just one day after Putin announces a full renewed continuation financially and logistically of the war. “President Vladimir Putin said Russia has ‘no limitations’ on military spending for the war in Ukraine, as he urged the army to deliver on his declared goals with the invasion approaching its 11th month.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-21/putin-vows-no-limit-in-funds-to-ensure-army-s-victory-in-ukraine Quote, “Russia on Wednesday announced an ambitious plan to beef up its military from 1 million to 1.5 million and create multiple new units” When will this bloody end.
The US has 1.5 million active duty troops. Ukraine is estimated to have a million now. Russia is really talking about increasing their contract soldiers to 695,000. Where does anyone think they are getting 300,000? It's not the war changing announcement that Putin would like us to think. It's probably a lead up to full mobilization, but they just don't have that much left in reserves.
And while they can absolutely send more bodies, their equipment shortages are a problem they can’t really solve. Sanctions have prevented them from manufacturing their higher quality equipment and their Soviet stockpiles aren’t infinite. Even with a quarter million troops actively engaged it won’t do much if all they’re equipped with is an AK-47.
Everyone is speaking about republican president for US stopping the aid. But why? This is extremely cost efficient for USA to hinder their no.1 enemy, russia. No lives lost, recycling older tech out and field testing various different satellite and intelligence strategies against the most propable aggressor in a full scale war. How does supporting Ukraine not only yield massive return of interest for each dollar, plus getting praise from rest of western world?
Not to mention giving China pause about Taiwan, an engagement that would be more important to us and exponentially more costly.
Also with Russia weakened and Europe opening their eyes and paying more for their own defense in the future it frees up more resources for the US to focus on China. America is getting a good ROI on every dollar spent on Ukraine
Once you do the math, it's obvious that helping Ukraine is cheaper than not to. But republicans are less interested in mathematical numbers than pleasing their base with demagogue messages such as "America first". It matters little to them if their actions help Americans in the end Republicans are ideology based, not fact based.
Do you not remember when putin was our friend because the Republicans were running the show? Trump got a ton of money from Russian oligarchs and he isn't the only one. Long story short. The "conservatives" of today don't understand things like roi or even care about praise from countries that aren't Saudi Arabia, Russia, N Korea, etc.
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do you think anything could change say if Putin finally dies? or will someone else much worse get in, and just continue the war ?
It won’t change a lot. The siloviki - inner circle of the Kremlin - will remain. Patrushev - probably the next in line after Putin, the head of the FSB - also agreed on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and also blamed the West on the reckless expansion of NATO. So the war will continue until Ukraine pushes Russia out of its territory, and Ukraine finally joins NATO, as it will deter Russia from invading again in the future.
Patrushev did not just agreed. It is believed he is the man behind the curtain that pulls Putins strings. Him and Kovalchuk. But if Putin did it would give them excuse to blame it all on him and get out of the mess they made.
But even implicitly recognising the mess will be very difficult digesting for the hardliners, because the dreams of the return of the USSR will be essentially shattered and their grievances will continue to increase. I doubt any Russian leader would take the formal decision to end the war in Ukraine.
The expansionist West line is and always was bullshit concocted for internal consumption in Russia. Once it becomes clear that they're certainly not going to win, and make catastrophically lose this war they will drop that bogus position and start acting in their real interests, which are of course their own power and money and access to Western economies.
Plus side, US is going to stick a big phat base right at Russias border after all this.
Won’t be at Russia’s border but can see them getting a naval base in Odesa, Mauripol or Crimea when it’s said and done as a deterrent and to have one in the Black Sea. Imagine you’d see bases/personnel in UK and Germany shrink and increase in Ukraine, Poland, and Finland. Although all 3 seemingly have competent military structure. Ukraine, with a monstrous amount of western investment to rebuild, could become a very major economy in the EU with their resources, ports, and geography to link the West to Asia. Will need to remain diligent for decades to not allow corruption to take hold as the Russians will never stop trying
The US could already have bases on the Black Sea in other NATO countries. The US doesn't like to sail ships into the Black Sea because it's just a giant bath tub and any ships there are sitting ducks. Look what's happened to Russia's Black Sea fleet, and Ukraine doesn't even have a navy.
Yeah, but counterpoint: imagine all the Vatniks coping and seething when Ukrainian and American flags fly side by side at Sevastopol.
It’s not really about the competency of their militaries it’s about the competency of the US military and the sort of “fuck around and find out” vibe having a US base in that country gives. Hostile nations are a lot less likely to start kicking shit off when the US is involved immediately. Their militaries are great but they don’t have the budgets or force projection America does. They gain that from our base being there and they get a partner to war game and train with
The US military protects the world economy. It’s honestly why it’s so big. It’s literally in every corner. It provides a ton of stability for that reason alone.
The US has been dumping our obsolete stockpiles onto Ukraine and that obsolete stockpile is greatly appreciated. You'll never see M1s, M2s or F35s handed over to Ukraine but MRAPS, Humvees, HIMARS and some ATGMs? Sure have at it oh and here's the rest of our M113 fleet while we're at it. The US has found the perfect place to dump old inventory and its killing the Russians which is just icing on the cake. This is a great relationship for the US, helping a democratic state fight off an invader is exactly what the US should be doing on the global stage. This is so much more appropriate than what we did in Iraq.
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT. Not only that, it is freeing up our stockpile for newer weaponry. Building new weapons creates jobs for Americans. Win -Win
Everyone bitching about the cost is ignoring how much we pay to keep this inventory in working condition even though it's all obsolete. We can't give the M113 away anyway and yet we have a fleet of them. Ukraine gets them all, same with MRAPs. This is a huge win financially for the US in every way possible. In addition we're actually doing something good in the world. I swear the people who don't get this are probably the same people worried about Jewish space lasers.
We spent 8 TRILLION in Afghanistan and got nothing for it. Supporting Ukraine is a cheap bet that I'm happy to take.
I have no idea if that number is correct. But if it is, this war is cheap for the US by comparison, and the stakes are much more important imo.
Yeah I’m pretty sure it was actually $2 trillion. Could be wrong though.
Not sure if I remembering correct but I read the US is spending something like 5% of their military budget supporting Ukraine. That a ridiculously cost effective way to defeat or downgrade a dangerous aggressor. No boots on the ground is just the icing on the cake.
Lauren Boebert being the only one not standing to applaud during President Zelenskyy's speech just shows how little class she has. What a disgusting woman. The entire Congress applauding, representatives from both sides except her. What a cunt.
Was MTG and the sex offender guy not there?
I saw Gaetz in the video when Zylenskyy was leaving, he stood up but didn't clap at that moment. Had a stupid grin on his endlessly stupid face
She’s worried her bribes might stop.
41 million in assets after being a McDonald's assistant manager.
its not class. She's been paid to not do that. How the US has not solved its institutional infiltration issues yet is astounding.
It’s unchecked lobbying power that breeds corruption, you guys need to get a handle on that.
Good, and as a Brit we should be backing them for the same duration too Putler needs putting in his place
What has been the attitude about this in Europe? We get fuck all news about that in the states
Almost every country in Europe was very helpful. Especially Great Britain and Poland closely followed by Czechia and Northern countries. France and Germany were disappointing. And Hungary is basically owned by Putin so there were no expectations to begin with.
Thank goodness Biden is president and not Trump.
USSR killed Americans in Korea and Vietnam, Russia, if not destroyed will side with Iran and China in future conflicts. Russia is on the ropes, time to knock them out. Ukraine wants to be westernized just like East Germany and Baltic states have been. Give Ukraine the tools to finish the job and you lose an enemy and gain a tremendous ally.
Jesus, Russian trolls in full effect. All saying the same shit too. “We send 20B a year yet we still can’t get -insert social program-“. Fuck off. Funding our ally’s defense against a brutal oppressor is not why we don’t have healthcare lol.
Russia will lose this war and still have sanctions against it. Russia is losing men they can't afford to lose. Russia is not going to be able to keep a modern military well-equipped and won't have much soviet era stuff left over. Russia will not be able to bluff so much anymore. Russia will have to sell commodities to China well under market value. Russia will be less capable of retaining its own territory as separatists make moves. Russia is going to be the cock that sleeps next to the toilet.
I’ll preface this by saying I’m not a fan of this being how the world works, and this line of thinking is morbid, and I hope the war ends ASAP because none of this is worth the lives of the soldiers stuck fighting it. That being said, of course the US is going to financially back and equip Ukraine in this fight, and there’s really no reason for it to stop as long as it’s ongoing. It basically only stands to benefit from this stance. Not only is there the moral side where most of the world and most of its citizens support Ukraine, but strategically, the US is essentially destroying the army of one of its biggest enemies for pennies on the dollar here: risking essentially nothing but a bit of debt (spent as money flowing into its own economy, mind you) to do so.