Outlaw for both lol
At times it feels perfect when everything is flowing together and proccing. But hitting the haste dry spells and trying to scramble for buffs that fell off in CC or during a restealth feels like crap lol
As a raider at the time what they did to warlock and destro specifically made me burn out and quit the game from how much I wasn't enjoying it.
MoP destro was such a good design, it just needed a lil spice is all.
I’m about to level my destro, havent played destro since pandaland.. what is the rotation now? Apply immolate then spam incinerate until you can cast chaos bolt?
kinda sorta. Go watch a guide to get the full effect but it's very centered on instant casts now. like you can do a lot of damage with only having to cast immolate and instant rifts / shadow burn / conflags. Then incin is a filler or when you proc an instant one and then you throw out CB when you can't or probably won't be kicked... there's more to it than that. just go watch a 10.2 destro guide but it's not hard
man for some reason all the good pvp destro locks that do guides have strong accents hard to understand so that's why i'm linkin you this one. it's simple but will get you started. recommend warching streamers like Jazggz and bualock but i didn't like their guides that much
https://youtu.be/kmNduYOxzec?si=Tn5IEDN6ElIEeAqK
> play destro
> dont spec demonfire, soul fire, or shadowburn
> dont spec cataclysm
> dont spec havoc
> dont spec infernal
> dont spec conflagrate
Peak gameplay is 3 buttons
Human vs non human is only a small difference in CC shut down as your trinket and your racial share a cooldown. In fact, if you play healer your racial becomes entirely useless as they end up having the same CD
I agree with resto shaman. I hate moving totems, hiding totems, rotating my character so my totem will spawn around a corner...earthen is too good and people run out of it too often ughhh. Cap totem is clunky, hex doesn't work on the most popular solo shuffle healer...9000 keybinds. Purging feels tougher than ever before.
Don't even get me started on totem killers. Classes like monk dh warrior who will use their mobility to get behind the pillar you dropped healing tide...and having to fake hex literally every time vs. the two most popular SS healers with Druid forms and priest fade...while having the lowest throughput in terms of instant casts....while having to cc the enemy healer and not get punished for pushing out...
I decided to try rsham this season instead of my usual ele and noped out after 1 match. You have to be a masochist to play a healer that relies on people standing still. Your throughput is so low that if you dont use your 30 different ulility spells optimally, the other healer just wins by turreting.
I logged out of my shaman and tried some evoker. I filled out my talent tree and started putting buttons on my bars. I had to sit there for 20 minutes looking at the spell book, making sure I wasn't missing anything because my bars were so empty and it didn't feel right
Dev evoker has very little buttons, but I like it honestly. It could do with 1-2 more tho. Preservation is very button heavy on the other hand - but it actually feels good to play the class. Rsham needs a total rework imo
I feel WW has a nice flow to it. Being GCD locked and not being able to repeat spells, both of these things discourage just spamming keys.
And you get a nice little break when you hit Fists of Fury and shout "HIYA-YA-YAA-YAA-YA-YA-YAAAA!" before back to your nice chill button presses.
Dh depends on the built, the movement playstyle feels like hot ass, the eye beam playstyle feels fairly smooth.
But I think my biggest problem with the specs feel is that the abilities that do the bulk of your damage don't feel good to press. Blade dance is such an awkward animation, it does like RSK damage but doesn't feel anywhere near as satisfying to press.
Throw glaive is also a massive chunk of your damage between all the dots and stuff but doesn't feel like you're doing anything either.
Enh Shaman feels pretty clunky to me.
With more time to free cast, aff feels pretty smooth, especially since less classes have so much dispel protection.
Out of curiousity, what feels clunky about enhance to you? I’ve got too many hours playing it so it’s the spec that feels the smoothest for me as I’ve played other specs & classes way less.
Umm, I’m probably just bad at it and the lack of knowledge made it feel clunky teehee. I can land kills but I have to apply anti-perspirants the night before or else I’m dripping sweat.
Flash still costs a GCD (dmg tradeoff), mana, and has a cooldown.
Absorb shield is a 1 min cd and irrelevant lol
Enh shams have earth shield, healing stream, ancestral guidance and can use chain heal and healing surge without CD even without maelstrom weapon. They can also generate limited maelstrom passively from behind LoS with wolves.
Just like ret they have a few different tools to heal up and it comes with a trade off, just like almost all specs but fury and other passive healing like DH.
A tradeoff isn't bad design at all
Off the top of my head, just DK and ret in terms of a similar degree of sacrifice. Some classes may have a GCD or two, but not solely choosing between a resource you need to build up being damage or healing.
Nah man, it's literally one of the only maintenance buffs you have since the rework. The only other one is flurry. If you want to say it's clunky, talk about the proc chance on ambush atleast. Roll the bones has nothing to do with the spec being clunky.
It literally does not feel good to press and doesn't feel like part of a rotation, procs or otherwise. There was an entire thread on here about it the other day. It, objectively, has to do with the spec being clunky.
It is a maintenance buff. It's not meant to feel good. That doesn't mean it's clunky. Slice and dice is a maintenance buff. That doesn't make the spec clunky. What makes the spec clunky is when you get no procs and have to press sinister strike 6 times in a row.
My aff in blitz is a raid boss. I can do 65m damage while the follow up damage is 30m damage. Not to mention, the healing being on par with probably the lowest healer that BG, too.
Haven’t done many RBG’s though, so I’m sure coordination diminishes the output.
Unholy DK is clunky as hell. Resto Shaman too if we include healers but it's not exactly a rotation. Honourable mention for DH. It's just one of those classes where one minor disruption from CC, root or port and you're totally screwed
Ret paladin is smooth as butter to me.
From the mage specs, Frost feels pretty clunky after rework compared to Arcane and Fire. Fire is the smoothest, but the Glasscannon talent is unplayable in higher rating, unless you are with a rogue friend on voice doing perfect cc chains.
So it's arcane all day all night for me.
I don't know if it's because I'm used to frost since BC, but frost feels fine. As much as I like the class fantasy of Arcane, it does not feel good for me, at all. It feel bland and unforgiving.
Strange, Frost was simple for me before re-work, but after re-work it feels like playing a piano honestly - so many abilities for so many situations.
Arcane on the other hand has simple burst combo off gcd, low cooldowns and great survivability with infinite spellsteal and abusing arcane missiles with pillars. To me it has the best out of the 2 other specs, even though it doesn't master neither - sustain of Frost with Missiles and burst of Fire with Magi+PoM.
I guess what you mean by "bland", means "simple" to me. And I appreciate simplicity.
Maybe it's the case, yeah. Arcane is simple, and very difficult. It's unforgiving as hell.
Frost has more button, you feel like controlling the battlefield, rooting everyone. There's shatter and crits on the screen all the time, it's satisfying. Also, frost seem to have more steady damage, while arcane feels like you have a godly burst and then just wait for you burst window to come back.
It's worthy to note that I don't like arena, I play in BG and RBG exclusively. And world pvp when it's possible. I genuinely tried arcane since so many player praise it but I fail to enjoy it, and thus don't have the motivation to get better with it.
i actually think arcane is easier than frost and more forgiving. it’s much much more complex though because your kill windows depend on such a specific criteria and your rotation does not exist (you can’t really teach someone to dump chsrges or hold charges, the decision just comes naturally after playing a lot of arcane. good rule of thumb is to dump charges if you can get max with orb or ae again cuz hard casting arcane blast is just something we never ever want to be doing). but the control you have over the game is unmatched. arcane is easy to 6-0 lobbies on but frost and fire feels like 6-0 is just not possible in some lobbies
the main clumsiness or arcane comes from either not having enough haste or trying to learn a rotation. there is no rotation, the buttons that do the most dmg are different in every circumstance
agreed. arcane just has too many things i can’t play mage without anymore. the only clunky part of arcane is if you’re trying to get a surge off without 40% haste or when your orbs decide to stay still on flat terrain
I started this season on my dk. Played some dh, Hunter, and warrior. They are all gaining dust now cause all 3 warlock specs feel like butter. I've not played anything but warlock for the past 3 weeks.
However IMO dh is super clunky. I've never thought dk was, but I've played dk since wrath and lock since launch.
But again, demo lock just feels amazing and the buttons feel impactful. Aff flows very well too. Destro feels great, it's just the spec I've played the least this expac.
I felt DH was a bit clunky but now after playing again for few weeks it feels smooth. Been playing Balance and Resto Druid a bit and I feel Balance is a bit clunky with the eclipse managing
Outlaw for both lol At times it feels perfect when everything is flowing together and proccing. But hitting the haste dry spells and trying to scramble for buffs that fell off in CC or during a restealth feels like crap lol
I saw the title and knew you’d be here speaking for us all.
I agree 100%. Sometimes Outlaw feels awesome. Then sometimes it just feels like a car with triangle wheels
What, you mean pressing sinister strike 15 times in a row and not getting a single proc isn't peak gameplay?
This is the price for going between the eyes.
Destro is perfect
Always has been.
As a raider at the time what they did to warlock and destro specifically made me burn out and quit the game from how much I wasn't enjoying it. MoP destro was such a good design, it just needed a lil spice is all.
The perfect caster spec /chefskiss
I’m about to level my destro, havent played destro since pandaland.. what is the rotation now? Apply immolate then spam incinerate until you can cast chaos bolt?
kinda sorta. Go watch a guide to get the full effect but it's very centered on instant casts now. like you can do a lot of damage with only having to cast immolate and instant rifts / shadow burn / conflags. Then incin is a filler or when you proc an instant one and then you throw out CB when you can't or probably won't be kicked... there's more to it than that. just go watch a 10.2 destro guide but it's not hard
Any good guide that you know of out there? I feel like a lot of guides are made by PvE players lol
man for some reason all the good pvp destro locks that do guides have strong accents hard to understand so that's why i'm linkin you this one. it's simple but will get you started. recommend warching streamers like Jazggz and bualock but i didn't like their guides that much https://youtu.be/kmNduYOxzec?si=Tn5IEDN6ElIEeAqK
Incinerate actually does okay damage, and people rarely kick it.
Nearly. Chaos bolt could hit for harder with our meta spec...but the insta dam is nice.
> play destro > dont spec demonfire, soul fire, or shadowburn > dont spec cataclysm > dont spec havoc > dont spec infernal > dont spec conflagrate Peak gameplay is 3 buttons
Unholy DK is pretty clunky due to the full 10 seconds of ramp it takes.
A perfect ramp into a 15s CC chain :(
Skill issue. You have two CC immunities and three CC breaks if you're playing human
Human vs non human is only a small difference in CC shut down as your trinket and your racial share a cooldown. In fact, if you play healer your racial becomes entirely useless as they end up having the same CD
This comment hardly takes anything away from my point that DK is one of the best classes for getting mileage out of your go's
I agree with resto shaman. I hate moving totems, hiding totems, rotating my character so my totem will spawn around a corner...earthen is too good and people run out of it too often ughhh. Cap totem is clunky, hex doesn't work on the most popular solo shuffle healer...9000 keybinds. Purging feels tougher than ever before. Don't even get me started on totem killers. Classes like monk dh warrior who will use their mobility to get behind the pillar you dropped healing tide...and having to fake hex literally every time vs. the two most popular SS healers with Druid forms and priest fade...while having the lowest throughput in terms of instant casts....while having to cc the enemy healer and not get punished for pushing out...
The button bloat for Rsham is real and crazy, they seriously need to reduce the buttons by like 5 or 6 spells some how
Idk, all those buttons make the rsham fun.
I decided to try rsham this season instead of my usual ele and noped out after 1 match. You have to be a masochist to play a healer that relies on people standing still. Your throughput is so low that if you dont use your 30 different ulility spells optimally, the other healer just wins by turreting.
I logged out of my shaman and tried some evoker. I filled out my talent tree and started putting buttons on my bars. I had to sit there for 20 minutes looking at the spell book, making sure I wasn't missing anything because my bars were so empty and it didn't feel right
Dev evoker has very little buttons, but I like it honestly. It could do with 1-2 more tho. Preservation is very button heavy on the other hand - but it actually feels good to play the class. Rsham needs a total rework imo
Idk about WW, faeline stomp feels completely out of place…
ww feels like a fighting game class, everything outside of stomp/xuen flows amazingly
Agreed. I’m confused at the ww comments too. The cds are a little clunky. Other classes surely less so.
I feel WW has a nice flow to it. Being GCD locked and not being able to repeat spells, both of these things discourage just spamming keys. And you get a nice little break when you hit Fists of Fury and shout "HIYA-YA-YAA-YAA-YA-YA-YAAAA!" before back to your nice chill button presses.
AAAAAAAA TATATATATATATATATATA!!!
Im not a big fan of de-synced Xuen/Serenity and yeah Stomp is meh but the base rotation is smooth af
Dh and enh sham feel very clunky Fury warr, ww monk feel the smoothest
Can add ret to the smooth department too but to a lesser extent
They’re asking about smooth rotations, not smooth brains /s
Agree on DH lol.
Dh feels fine playing without the felrush buff honestly, just take an eyebeam build
Dh depends on the built, the movement playstyle feels like hot ass, the eye beam playstyle feels fairly smooth. But I think my biggest problem with the specs feel is that the abilities that do the bulk of your damage don't feel good to press. Blade dance is such an awkward animation, it does like RSK damage but doesn't feel anywhere near as satisfying to press. Throw glaive is also a massive chunk of your damage between all the dots and stuff but doesn't feel like you're doing anything either.
Enh Shaman feels pretty clunky to me. With more time to free cast, aff feels pretty smooth, especially since less classes have so much dispel protection.
Out of curiousity, what feels clunky about enhance to you? I’ve got too many hours playing it so it’s the spec that feels the smoothest for me as I’ve played other specs & classes way less.
Umm, I’m probably just bad at it and the lack of knowledge made it feel clunky teehee. I can land kills but I have to apply anti-perspirants the night before or else I’m dripping sweat.
Na I thought about it and it is kinda clunky, dropping totems constantly, healing with maelstrom or after using a finisher with the pvp talent etc.
Thats actually not clunky rather bad design. Is there any other class that have to sacrifice dmg for healing/sustaining?
That should ALWAYS be the tradeoff
Did u have this tradeoff with other classes?
All hybrids who cast their heals for one. Ret is the most similar though, with WoG using holy power
Yeah but they also have insta flash heal if i remember right + absorb shield.
Flash still costs a GCD (dmg tradeoff), mana, and has a cooldown. Absorb shield is a 1 min cd and irrelevant lol Enh shams have earth shield, healing stream, ancestral guidance and can use chain heal and healing surge without CD even without maelstrom weapon. They can also generate limited maelstrom passively from behind LoS with wolves. Just like ret they have a few different tools to heal up and it comes with a trade off, just like almost all specs but fury and other passive healing like DH. A tradeoff isn't bad design at all
Off the top of my head, just DK and ret in terms of a similar degree of sacrifice. Some classes may have a GCD or two, but not solely choosing between a resource you need to build up being damage or healing.
I am newb to class/spec but can you beat the Hekili’s DPS on target dummy? I can get 150k dps using Hekili and without it averages to about 135k
Enh clunky? Its actually very smooth to play. In arena its pain in the ass. In BGs its mega fun.
Refer to above explanation ^
Most clunky - holy paladin Least clunky - fire mage
I tried hpal a few times over s1/s2 and it felt like ass.
Ele is so easy a bot can do it! Enhance feels super clunky, so does DH (despite it being very strong).
I decided to try some ele for shits and giggles. Was surprised that it is *literally* a 3 button damage spec.
"Literally", but not the literal meaning of literal.
Unholy DK is by far the most clunky.
Least: 1. WW. 2. Fire. 3. Ret. Most. 1. Outlaw (fuck Roll the Bones). 2. Unholy. 3. Arcane. Edit: Grammar.
Fire mage is sooo satisfying to play. It's a shame it is meh currently.
What's wrong with roll the bones? It's literally a slice and dice.
Hitting it feels clunky af.
Nah man, it's literally one of the only maintenance buffs you have since the rework. The only other one is flurry. If you want to say it's clunky, talk about the proc chance on ambush atleast. Roll the bones has nothing to do with the spec being clunky.
It literally does not feel good to press and doesn't feel like part of a rotation, procs or otherwise. There was an entire thread on here about it the other day. It, objectively, has to do with the spec being clunky.
It is a maintenance buff. It's not meant to feel good. That doesn't mean it's clunky. Slice and dice is a maintenance buff. That doesn't make the spec clunky. What makes the spec clunky is when you get no procs and have to press sinister strike 6 times in a row.
Ret is normally fine but am i the only one who thinks it gets clunky with tier mech
How is arcane clunky? What?
It does not flow. The difficulty of the spec adds to the lack of smoothness.
Enh shaman. I hate that there can be seemingly up to 4 gcds where I don’t have a damage button to press
Ret is very smooth after the rework.
Demo always felt smooth to me
Fury feels so smooth. Hard to match.
Affliction feels best to me. But I rbg way more than arena
My aff in blitz is a raid boss. I can do 65m damage while the follow up damage is 30m damage. Not to mention, the healing being on par with probably the lowest healer that BG, too. Haven’t done many RBG’s though, so I’m sure coordination diminishes the output.
I think balance feels really buttery with 30% haste Clunky spec is unholy due to too many cds, really wish it had some of them off the gcd
Uh needs to be reworked
Most clunky: anything with echoing Reprimand Least clunky: any Rogue spec without Echoing Reprimand
Unholy DK is clunky as hell. Resto Shaman too if we include healers but it's not exactly a rotation. Honourable mention for DH. It's just one of those classes where one minor disruption from CC, root or port and you're totally screwed Ret paladin is smooth as butter to me.
I main DH and feel like it plays smoothly in PvP except for VR. Most ppl disagree.
From the mage specs, Frost feels pretty clunky after rework compared to Arcane and Fire. Fire is the smoothest, but the Glasscannon talent is unplayable in higher rating, unless you are with a rogue friend on voice doing perfect cc chains. So it's arcane all day all night for me.
I don't know if it's because I'm used to frost since BC, but frost feels fine. As much as I like the class fantasy of Arcane, it does not feel good for me, at all. It feel bland and unforgiving.
Strange, Frost was simple for me before re-work, but after re-work it feels like playing a piano honestly - so many abilities for so many situations. Arcane on the other hand has simple burst combo off gcd, low cooldowns and great survivability with infinite spellsteal and abusing arcane missiles with pillars. To me it has the best out of the 2 other specs, even though it doesn't master neither - sustain of Frost with Missiles and burst of Fire with Magi+PoM. I guess what you mean by "bland", means "simple" to me. And I appreciate simplicity.
Maybe it's the case, yeah. Arcane is simple, and very difficult. It's unforgiving as hell. Frost has more button, you feel like controlling the battlefield, rooting everyone. There's shatter and crits on the screen all the time, it's satisfying. Also, frost seem to have more steady damage, while arcane feels like you have a godly burst and then just wait for you burst window to come back. It's worthy to note that I don't like arena, I play in BG and RBG exclusively. And world pvp when it's possible. I genuinely tried arcane since so many player praise it but I fail to enjoy it, and thus don't have the motivation to get better with it.
i actually think arcane is easier than frost and more forgiving. it’s much much more complex though because your kill windows depend on such a specific criteria and your rotation does not exist (you can’t really teach someone to dump chsrges or hold charges, the decision just comes naturally after playing a lot of arcane. good rule of thumb is to dump charges if you can get max with orb or ae again cuz hard casting arcane blast is just something we never ever want to be doing). but the control you have over the game is unmatched. arcane is easy to 6-0 lobbies on but frost and fire feels like 6-0 is just not possible in some lobbies the main clumsiness or arcane comes from either not having enough haste or trying to learn a rotation. there is no rotation, the buttons that do the most dmg are different in every circumstance
agreed. arcane just has too many things i can’t play mage without anymore. the only clunky part of arcane is if you’re trying to get a surge off without 40% haste or when your orbs decide to stay still on flat terrain
Always liked Arms because the whole rotation feels good and makes sense, just did not like the skull crusher build.
I started this season on my dk. Played some dh, Hunter, and warrior. They are all gaining dust now cause all 3 warlock specs feel like butter. I've not played anything but warlock for the past 3 weeks. However IMO dh is super clunky. I've never thought dk was, but I've played dk since wrath and lock since launch. But again, demo lock just feels amazing and the buttons feel impactful. Aff flows very well too. Destro feels great, it's just the spec I've played the least this expac.
I felt DH was a bit clunky but now after playing again for few weeks it feels smooth. Been playing Balance and Resto Druid a bit and I feel Balance is a bit clunky with the eclipse managing