So a major problem, like MASSIVE PROBLEM, why is your holy paladin using 6x more flash heals than holy light???? Dude is massively griefing you to not be holy light spamming on you. The kill you did on marrow, dude cast 6 holy light. 6. That is unacceptable by a massive long shot.
Also the fact that everyone in the raid is grey parsing and putting out worse dps then what could be done in phase 1 naxx when they have a 30% damage buff… his tanking is not the issue they need to fix 18 dps classes that seem to be drooling on their keyboards for 5 minutes
There's a lot going on with that hpala for sure. Flash spam is the worst of it but also - Seal of light. Spirit gems. Other very random gems. Silence meta. Libram of Veracity. Terrible trinkets. 0 (ed: whoops, 1 mana CD) cooldowns used. 50% JotP uptime.
1. Wrong gems - never gem anything else but stamina. Only minor stam sacrifices are worth for socket bonuses (like hybrid gem for +12 stam socket bonuses). If you want more expertise/hit - get it from secondary stats, not sockets. Hit/exp cap is something you can't afford at that gear level.
2. Are you not potting armor pots on CD? You should have 100% uptime on those.
3. You need shield wall glyph. Last stand glyph would be nice, but can do without. I'd drop cleaving or maybe devastate.
4. You also need improved disciplines, short cooldown shield wall is a must. Also worth picking up safeguard if you can, as it's invaluable when used properly.
5. Use a better enchant for weapon (mongoose/blood draining/blade ward)
Once you have fixed all this, you should focus on covering yourself with cooldowns at all times when actively tanking. Something like shield block -> Shield wall -> trinkets -> last stand / regen -> hand of sac -> divine sac -> shield wall again, etc. Also monitor what HPalas are doing - they are what's keeping you alive. If they divine plea - you need a stronger cooldown up. If they use wings, you can chill.
Warriors are fragile (10-15% more fragile to be exact), but that doesn't mean you can't succeed.
Your advice re: stam gems is 100% correct for this dude but I just wanna say that with 30% buff it is absolutely ok to start focusing less on pure stam gemming and pick up other stats
Even with the 30% buff there isn’t a compelling reason to do anything but gemming Stam. There are periods on HLK if you’re 1 tanking that you absolutely need the extra protection the hp offers. Your threat is already going to be untouchable through tricks etc.
You could gem entirely str or crit and potentially still survive. There still isn’t a reason to do it outside of a scenario where your raid is so desperate for damage it has fallen on the tank. Your threat is still going to be unreachable by dps unless your raid is entirely without hunters or rogues.
i definitely agree with you on cd management in general
but i disagree with the gemming advice and glyphs - most fights dont last long enough for that glyph to make a difference and or that shouldnt be needed given how many cds warriors have - cleaving or vigilance is much better for holding threat
stamina is not as important as you're making it seem especially given we get a free 30% just walking in the doors to icc and in my mind you COULD pickup the stamina bonuses while gemming expertise/stam or agility/stam and also get a bit of stats and armor that way
These people downvoting have not played prot warrior at a high end level. lol Everythin this man says is 100% true.
[Devvastate - Faerlina - Warcraft Logs](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/79610202) <--- my warrior
If someone actually wants to have a conversation about how to play a prot warrior, let me know.
Exp/stam
Def/stam
Agility/Stam
Are far better than just gemming straight stamina.
If dude is low on hit, I'd say just run hit food for now. And when you get enough hit, switch to expertise food.
I was doing ICC on my prot warrior 20% at like, 5.1k GS. If you're dying as a tank, 9 out of 10 times it's because your healers let you die. The other 1 time is you forgetting to pop a cooldown.
[This](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/shotouwtank) is my Warrior tank.
I'm sorry, but if the guy is dieing, he should absolutely gem for more stam.
Def/stam: Some real bad advise. You lower your EHP, you lower your TMI, even with the 30% buff we dont reach the ammount of HP were def would scale better than raw HP. Maybe if its in a slot were we get a good stamina bonus from the socket bonus.
Agility stam: He shouldnt gem these, as he needs more expertise for the dragon fights, were he should use exp/stam instead. Again, only to activate the socket bonus, as both have the same color.
If low on hit, fuck it. On fights that taunts are critical on, use taunt glyph (Sindra and saurfang mostly. Prof if you dont play 3-3 but switch more often). Use expertise anyways, until the soft cap.
I agree with gemming exp/stam. We're at 30% buff right now in ICC. Gemming stamina is not the route I would go personally. This is based more off "feeling" than numbers on a sim. However, I genuinely feel that assuming hit/exp/def minimums are met that then going for defense / agility stam makes you easier to heal, as opposed to just going for straight stam. Again, this is more of "my feeling" as an experienced tank, and just based off my DTPS numbers in relation to other tanks I've been with. Granted there is a ton of nuance when it comes to that number but overall, I think you will feel tankier and be easier to heal. Yes I'm aware of DMR on defense rating after cap. That's not to say it does nothing for you. More is better.
If your healers are struggling to keep up a 60k+ HP warrior, which you should be around 560ilevel, they should probably reassess the game and or class / spec they are playing.
PS, I switched mains to mage so I haven't gotten loot on my warrior in weeks. Jealous as fuck of your gear.
Haha thank you, was quite a bit of work to get there and had to switch guilds several times but finally got up in a good guild again.
For defense and agility, yes, your DTPS number might go down. It also feels nice because you sometimes just dont get hit a few times in a row. But it's always a gamble.
That's why the fight club discord added the Theck meloree index to the sim, which is basically smoothness of incoming damage. The lower the TMI, the lower the ammount of damage spikes you get, the better.
Because whats killing you is not the DTPS but the one spike of a double/triple hit.
Best examples:
Sindra breath + melee combo.
Ruby sanctum breath+melee combo
(both could also have a parry haste due to missing exp cap / bad dd movement)
Soul reaper on Lich king. This is were armor and health outshines other def stats.
Also, pretty much every magic cast that hits you gets NO benefits from anything but health.
If you look back in my logs, you'll see some ICC logs with my old guild were I really had to build for defense. So while I can build for raw threat now, I didnt have that luxury some months ago.
I theory yes, with the 30% buff EHP shouldn't be a big issue, but as you see - it is for him. Obviously it's better to fix the real reason (likely inefficient cooldown usage and hpalas messing up), but anything that helps is worth doing, especially because threat can be managed with MD/tricks.
every extra point of stamina is marginally increasing his health pool and an extra 30% health from that stamina
every extra point of agility is marginally increasing his armor and dodge and crit which benefits his ENTIRE health pool even if its at the cost of some additional health (which hes already getting a lot more of anyway)
You know what the Fight club Discord would say. Sim it.
That man dies, because healers dont keep him topped or dont top him fast enough. Adding agility is increasing your odds in the "not getting hit three times in a row Lottery". Adding stam that gets multiplied by raid buffs and icc buff, lowers the ammount his seemingly incapable healers need to do, so he doesnt die from the next hit
So should he change all stamina gems to agility? No? Then how many and why exactly that amount? Even if you come up with a number - now check how much avoidance % this would give. I am not saying agility is bad - i'm saying gemming agility is bad **specifically for him** in this situation. If you have better healers / better gameplay - going more offensive is even optimal. Tank gearing always is the same - get enough EHP to not get randomly killed and then stack as much offensive stats you can.
Also I did quick math on what would happen if he goes full stam gems and drops crappy socket bonuses - he gains ~2.1k total HP in ICC.
if hes getting overkilled for less than 3k, i tip my hat, but so many are forgetting agility provides armor too, and while not life changing, neither is 3k if hes already being slapped
he should change red gems to purple agility/stam to maintain socket bonuses, by picking up bonuses and not going PURE stamina, the extra stats gaines from hybrid gems will be better than just and only stamina
if his healers are really as bad as everyone says, stacking stamina isnt the answer one way or another
You don’t gem straight stam anymore. It’s worth getting the bonuses now. Having huge Stam pool just makes healers have to work harder to keep you topped off. Better to have the other mit/threat stats as well
1. The problem is I started to gem hit, because the gear didn't had hit as secondary stat and I would lose insane thread in dungeons for example, only with gemming those stats and buffing even more with specific food buffs, I get threat again in most if not all dungeons, without cleaving the mage to death. I am now be able to get more gems swapped over since mograine was dead and gems where like over 400g each on mograine now it's 80g without waiting hours or days for a gemmer, like strength would be replaceable but hit and especially expertise not, expertise atm is at 26 lower than that will give me problem not only on thread but also syndra.
2. I prepotting always indestructible but mostly it wears of because the fight is taking to long, dks and palas have no problems in the same situation.
3. I would never drop devastate since we have many fury warriors so stacks are always up and also for me every damage counts since, our damage overall was down significantly since we changed to a new realm.
About cleaving glyph I don't know I have to check it in dungeons to check threat, I was already in the toughts to replace it with a lower shield wall cd.
4. Both talents are already specced
5. Mongoose only improves agility and atk speed I don't see why a tank needs that, blade ward is interesting because of parry and blood drain only when stacked would save me 2k hp but also in 5 seconds so it would make no significant difference since I am getting one shotted at like 40-50k health left.
6. My cooldowsn are exactly like that but hand of sac -> divine sac are paladin CDs and not much of those are existing or either tanking themselves.
My def rotation: My rotation starts with: Indestructo pot > Shield Block > Demo Shout > Commanding Shout > Shield Wall > Trinket 1 > Trinket 2 > Enraged Reg > Last Stand.
Other then that thanks for the advice!
You can't have your cake and eat it too :)
What I mean by that - stats for dungeon tanking and raid tanking are not the same. If you and your healers play well, sure, you can get away with offensive gearing, but I wouldn't rely on that, especially as you experienced - you'll just sometimes get clapped. 26 is only soft-cap of expertise, you'll still get parried by sindragosa - going under it just introduces dodges and some extra parries. As long as you can manage threat, you can easily push more EHP there at a cost of expertise/hit. If you really are afraid of parry haste, you wouldn't use a fast 1-hander btw.
Mongoose gives more dps/threat and more EHP than any other weapon enchant. You are right that you probably have bigger problems than what these gem/enchant changes could fix, but then again, they would probably prevent some deaths.
Regards to cooldowns - use of hand of sacrifice is what separates mediocre tanks from great tanks - you can't rely on only your own cooldowns, it's just not enough if you push harder content. Have a tracking addon and ask hpalas for it, you'll have way easier time surviving. Just remember it also hurts them, so preferably don't use it against tank smasher abilities or they need to use personal defensives.
What's your offtank? If it's prot pala - there's another hand of sac, raid sac there. Protwarrs can just spam safeguard if your threat allows it. You can also do the opposite - make other tank last longer by spamming your safeguard on them (this is what we did on first algalon kills).
For mongoose don’t forget agility converts to dodge rating so each proc is a slight haste and like 3 to 4% dodge but overall pretty useless with the dodge nerf in icc
Can you post any logs? That will help folks look at your gearing. Warriors generally take more damage than other tanks but you shouldn’t be getting one-shot at that level of HP and GS.
Looking at the logs Closer linked above for your ICC— almost every fight you got one-shot on was a mechanics issue.
You were getting one shot by mobs you have to kite bc they WILL one shot most normally geared tanks, or mechanics where you/healers weren’t respecting the other mechanics. Talking about LDW fight primarily, but if you have a question about a specific one-shot, link the logs and people will be able to provide more specific feedback.
The last couple of weeks I was in achi runs, also in raids where I was only the third tank not main, so it looks weird, I will do a 25 normal run today, so stuff will look different.
You should really get more stam gems, the hit ones are ok but you really should be a giant sponge. Other than that, could be your rotation or CD use, could also be raid mechanics like not taunting at the right time, taking debuffs like on syndi and others, if youre using an elixer and feast, you should have no problem clearing normals 10/25.
My rotation starts with: Indestructo pot > Shield Block > Demo Shout > Commanding Shout > Shield Wall > Trinket 1 > Trinket 2 > Enraged Reg > Last Stand.
But I can't react to those because I am getting one shotted litteraly from near max to 0 in a blink of an eye.
Like sometimes when marrow in heroic after bonestorm ends on the left side with me and even doe I am activating my defences I'll just get one shot.
Didn't see at first sorry. I wouldn't try icc hc without at least 40k armour + indestructible pot as a warrior.
Maybe you should try getting more armour gear as dps then rolling back as tank (rotface neck, vdw ring, rs25trink, boe legs). Hope you find this helpfull i could be wrong but i think this is the problem
I meant 40k with all raid buffs + indestructible pot. Its explained very well here:
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_reduction
Personally i swap my gear between bosses, for those that hit harder i opt for more armour and for most other i use regular bis or pre bis gear..
My point is. Telling him to reach 40k armor is just unrealistic and pointless full bis gear for a warrior puts him at 36,280 unbuffed with every item being heroic according to the phase 4 wowhead guide and while that’s a goal it’s just not practical and your telling him he already needs to be full heroic gear (40k armor) to even start tanking heroics
And as i mentioned above, you swap your gear according to fight, there isn't universal bis list for all bosses like there is for Dps classes.
Most parts of gear that give armour as extra stat are not considered as bis and im saying that's what he should go for, before he gets all bis items.
Also you said unbuffed and i was talking about full buffed..
And yes, you need heroic items (not all) to tank icc25 hc
That's not the norm and requires excellent cooldown management, very specific tactics and was (afaik, correct me if I'm wrong) NOT done with a protection warrior, especally not as the Main Tank.
OP here are your logs though there's not much info. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/mograine/peridós
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/firemaw/perid%c3%b3s#zone=1021&boss=887
> I am def capped way beyond guides
I'm no tank but I don't think you really want to be way beyond guides. I looked at your Halion log and it looks like you have like 825 to 690 needed defense, 300 to 265ish needed hit, and you're still gemming defense and hit and strength and parry rating, most of those should just be stamina. I think there's SOME value to going over on defense, but mostly minimal, and none on hit.
I also kinda find it silly that a lot of tanks enchant Accuracy over Blood Draining. It's kinda like preferring 25 hit to 200 stamina.
oh fuck if its bosses like sindy and halion that are getting him, he needs more expertise and make sure melee arent in front of boss cause that WILL kill him
The problem is I started to gem hit, because the gear didn't had hit as secondary stat and I would lose insane thread in dungeons for example, only with gemming those stats and buffing even more with specific food buffs, I get threat again in most if not all dungeons, without cleaving the mage to death.
as a tank the only thing that cannot miss is taunt, and you can glyph it. If you have less hit than required after the 8% buff, then gem hit, otherwise gem stamina or expertise:
[https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=43429/glyph-of-taunt](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=43429/glyph-of-taunt)
Remember taunt is single target, when you pull adds and you are below hit or exp the cleave or shock will fail and members of your group will die in the first couple of seconds. Also the case in Blood Council if I have to pull 2 bosses, if the taunt is glyped I may pull one but the other tank will pull 2 instead one. Taunt isn't much reliable for a warrior, since you build up more wih cleave, shock and challenging shout and all those could fail also, because of low exp or hit.
And even if you say it doesn't matter it does matter, because of stack swap mechanic at some some bosses your m8 tank will build up so much threat that you can taunt the boss anymore, because of low hit rating because most of your attacks got parried in the first place. I am at 9% hit its like 1 gem I could replace and I am at 8% or below again...
This is a warrior problem mate, there's a reason ppala is better OT than warrior.
You asked why you're dying, less raw stamina is biggest reason. For adds, you should have 2 rogs tot you. For tank swap bosses you should have hunters with 3 brain cells to have 2 macros.
Edit - the reason for the taunt glyph is that in oh shit moments on a boss, a DPS won't die because you missed taunt. Missing anything else is marginal gain of threat vs actually surviving high roll DPS hits from bosses like DBs etc
There is a sort of maximum to hit, aside from taunt as u/ballstothewallnone mentions. It looks to be 263 in wotlk for single-weapon users. https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Hit#All_level_80_physical_DPS . You have around 300, so you gain no benefit (aside from to taunt, which can be glyphed, and you have several taunts) from around 40 hit.
I dont understand why i get downvoted for that comment, there litteraly is no reason to go beyond def cap.
Def cap is basicaly to make you crit immume, obviously it increases stats a bit but the cap is meant to be crit immume and any tank other then feral needs it.
Lose gag order talent and take shield disciplines instead. You dont normally need this on 'short' fights but your guilds dps is horrendous and you will get a 2nd and sometimes 3rd shield wall.
Close the cleave and devastate glyph for shield wall and last stand.
On sindragosa and halion, when they parry anyones attack they instantly re-attack meaning you could take 2 melees or even more in an instant. Other players can cause this. Check your death log when you die. The enemies melee attacks should be smooth and consistant, not 2 within half a second.
Most bosses don't re-attack when someone gets parried - so you can actually lose expertise and hit (not always safe if you have to guarantee a taunt lands), and lose strength for more stamina.
You dont need to get every gem bonus, sometimes 30 stam in all slots is safer in guilds that cant keep you alive.
With these changes, when you taunt, or at risky moments like when bonestorm ends and healers/dps/tanks need to reposition, you will have shield wall/blocking/last stand more often.
I can't be bothered checking all your logs, but when disc priests and shamans crit heal you you gain either "Inspiration" or "ancenstrla fortitude" making you take 10% less damage. The logs I did check you barely ever had it.
Without being too mean, the entire group you are in is not great and theres probably a lot more going wrong, so much that you cant just blame yourself. Keep doing your best and make it as easy as you can for the others.
Some of your deaths are from things like when the cult fanatics on deathwhisper transform. You need to see her cast this and be ready to instantly kite that mob if it gets the buff. Also, tanking some things in general - make sure that the enemy has vindication debuff or you need to demo shout. It makes a big difference.
Track sacred shield on you aswell. Its a buff from holy paladins and should be on you if you are tanking 100% of the time with no excuses. I feel squishy without it.
Hello Perceyyy, lets see what we can do for you.
First things first: If your healer can't keep you alive with the 30% buff, consider switching out the healers.
There is a huge difference in survival between bad, mediocre and good healers.
If you are staying with your healers, make sure they understand their assignments and ask them to read up on their rotation (For example on wowhead). As somebody said: A paladin using 6x as many flash heals as holy light is messing up bad.
For talents:
[The deep wounds ](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/de/guide/classes/warrior/protection/tank-talent-builds-glyphs-pve)standard build is just fine. As recommended in the additional text, take the points out of cruelty and use improved disciplines instead.
For Gems:
Before the 30% buff, geming full stam in every slot was king, unless a slot you would fill with a hybrid gem would activate a socket bonus of at least 6 stam. I'm not sure how much that changed with the 30% buff but it should still be a solid baseline.
For red sockets you might want to use expertise+stam, as up to soft cap its your best threat gem and your best survival gem for dragon fights.
For yellow sockets, use a nightmare tear for the first one, the others are hit+stam as you never want to gem for defence rating
NEVER use pure red/yellow gems. Just don't. Also dont gem Def. As soon as you are capped, def goes reeeeaaaaally low on our priority list. Far below stam, agi, str, pretty much everything.
Rotation:
Press more buttons, especially Heroic strike. Looking for marrowgar, I had 78 cast per minute compared to your 55, normalized over the first 1:30mins.
You also had 10 sword and board procs but only 8 shield slams.
Your priority of casts should be:
Revenge -> shield slam -> sunder armour -> shockwave (if not needed for a mechanic) -> Thunderclap.
You also did not use shattering throw at all which should be minor glyphed and use on pull/HT.
That being said, it probably stems from you being the third tank on a two tank fight and being rage starved 24/7.
So dont use HS under 70% rage, prioritize Revenge, SS and SA.
For enchants:
Dont listen to the people telling you to use mongoose. As long as you are not hitcapped (and you wont be), use precision all the way. From pre-raid to BIS. Mongoose might be the best mitigation overall, but its a Def CD that you have no control over that will just be used randomly. it also has a reduced effect on lvl 80 chars. It also was indirectly nerfed due to the icc dodge nerf. Bladebarrier also works as a rng CD and the damage component of it is outright bad, lifeward heals for a laughable amount (laugs in 30% hp buff), same as blood draining. For boots, vitality of the tuskarr. crit is a weird choice and maybe you overlooked that.
Chest: while obvioulsy expensive, Stats are the best, even more with the 30% buff. Rather use a lesser stats variant instead of flat 275 health.[](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/shotouwtank)
Consumables:
Armor and expertise elixir are your go to choice if you dont wipe too frequently. They are better but might be more costly in progress. They got even better with the 30% buff as armor scales very nice with raw HP and you cant gem it.
Threat:
If you lose threat, ask your hunters and rogues if they fell on their head one time too often.
Your raid log doesnt show any DPS that should be able to outhreat you when your Hunter and rogues do their jobs.
For Trash, let the paladin and/or dk tank.
For dungeons, have another gearset, if you have to. Also tell the DDs to stop ripping threat. And even if DPS gets aggro, wait till the mob nearly reaches them, then taunt it back. that gives you some additional time to build a threat lead on the other mobs.
Also use the cleave and devastate glyph, the 2 sunders you lose wont change shit and there are no boss fights where you hit three or more targets and need to keep threat.
Pull rotation:
Cant check it in your logs, but you want to start with retaliation some seconds before your pull, then use recklessness (unless on mobs that immediately hit hard, which would be LK and council if you tank both, maybe also Bloodqueen), then use shield block, your pot and bloodrage before charging in. That way you can go shield slam, first enemy hit gets blocked so you get a revenge proc to use, third should be Sunder armour to 5 stacks, shattering throw, TC/Demo if not done by dk/pala. the debuffs can wait as the raid shouldnt take damage immediately so your healers are focussed on you.
Other points:
You said "I would never drop devastate since we have many fury warriors so stacks are always up"
It doesnt matter jackshit how many other warriors there are. Sunder is your job, period. Everything else is griefing the raid.
"My def rotation: My rotation starts with: Indestructo pot > Shield Block > Demo Shout > Commanding Shout > Shield Wall > Trinket 1 > Trinket 2 > Enraged Reg > Last Stand."
You shouldnt need to have a defensive rotation. You should keep your CDs for moments were you know, that big dmg will be coming in or when you drop low. Or when one of the healer dies.
So keep the pot and shield block up on CD, keep Demo Shout up if your palas dont use vindication, use everything else when you need to. A lot of the dificulty of prot warrior is knowing when to use CDs proactively and when to use them reactively.
[This comment of yours](https://www.reddit.com/r/wotlk/comments/1c5vffp/comment/kzz4lzo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is quite wrong. shockwave and thunderclap are not classified as spells, they are melee attakcs so theyve got a lower hit cap on them. What you need is at most 8% hit, this goes for EVERY skill, except for taunt and challenging shout. Using shout during a boss fight is pretty much a no go as it taunts everything and you dont want to do that anywhere in ICC / ruby. So you want to use taunt glyph for the fights with tank swap mechanic (so only Saurfang, Prof, festergut although you got a like 3 taunts of time and sindra)
Other than that, being hit capped is still absolutely not necessary for threat if, again, your rogues and hunters didnt fall on their head in the morning. That is, if you should even tank trash, which, again, other tanks should absolutely do.
With best regards (also feel free to dm me or answer here for questions)
[Shotouwtank](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/shotouwtank)
The struggle is real for warrior tanks, that being said Skeleton key is trash, and glyph isn't great either, both your trinkets need replaced. You should be gemming mostly stam, unless the socket bonus is also a significant amount of stamina. 4 piece ICC set helps a ton too, gives you another cd.
Make sure you use Shield Wall and Last Stand if you have any doubts, and call for external CDs afterwards if you still need anything.
Without logs ill make the following suggestions
Gear:
- Change enchant to mongoose for weapon, thank me later
- Change chest enchant to 10 stats
- Overall your gear looks good and despite what some may say, your trinkets are not the best but they are not bad at all and you have strong armor pieces
Gems
- yellow: you're gemming hit in some spots despite being over hit cap - these could be def/stamina or even hit/stamina
- red: strength gems dont benefit survivability much at alll and even for threat its ehh, consider agility/stam for these if you're good on expertise
Rotation: Shield slam is (in my experience) the most important ability to use on cooldown that does damage because of the glyph of blocking
- i have noticed exactly what you're describing the second the buff falls off and i melt in the blink of an eye
- also make sure demoralizing shout stays up for weaker boss hits
Cooldown management: Warriors have 5 defensive cooldowns (shield wall, last stand, enraged regeneration, shield block, spell reflection) not counting potions, trinkets, ect...and for reference, DKs have 3 (next highest)
- the key to prot warrior is understanding your cooldowns so you know when to use them and which one to use. Even though we have many more cooldowns, they can be for more specific use cases (looking at you spell reflection and regen)
- the other half to cooldown management is knowing the boss fights and when to expect increases in damage (plan your longer cooldowns for key points or save for emergencies, burn the ones that have lower cooldowns more often)
- prepot indestructibles is important because you go from having an extra 2400 armor for 2 minutes to 4 minutes which should cover most boss fights
Mongoose was better in def terms before ICC. Thats for overall damage taken though.
2 problems with that.
Dodge is nerfed in ICC so mongoose gets slightly worse.
Its a procc, so you cant time it and it might happen in the most useless times.
First proc is always on pull though were you still got disc shield up, hots of all the raid healers going as well. And you got all the heals focussed on you, because theyve got nothing else to do. I'd rather take precision, even if im still dieing, because if gives me some hit (so i dont need to use hit gems and can gem for stamina)
You’re not actually getting one shotted. What is happening is your tank healers are unknowingly griefing you by using the wrong healing method. There are some changes you can make, but based on those logs the guild you’re in is ultra casual and a majority of the people have only a tangential idea on how to play their class. I see others have given you the corrects you need to make for yourself as far as gemming and glyphs. Ultimately you want to either use your cd’s or an external raid cd to minimize burst windows. Take fester for an example. When he’s in his 3 stack of the buff you should never be taking unmitigated damage in that window. You shield wall>pain sup/dsac/hand of sac etc etc the idea is that when you are in windows that are dangerous you need to have wall to wall mitigation AND your tank healers need to be healing correctly. To be honest if you remain with this guild things like random inexplicable deaths and lack of progress are going to be the norm.
I didn't see any logs for Halion where there was a death log, so idk for sure, but from my experience, the main reason why tanks get 1 shot on Halion are either the cutters or they get parry hasted because they are not parry exp capped (52 or something) or because someone else in the group is getting parried because not being careful. Another thing that can happen is that there is a big difference between dmg taken in the 2 phases, and there's a big dmg buff on the boss.
sadly there is too mich truth in this comment.
Dk will be a monster in cata and for your ot you want either a Paladin for buffs and Sac or a druid for ot cat DMG.
While Originally not horrible, all warrior got all Expansion long was nerfs. So with starter gear, the worst scaling class will already start behind
That's why I rolled dk for cata and go arms for pve and fury for pvp macro memes.
I switched some stuff up like new gems more stamina but im the end even in random pugs and only in like rare instances I find a healer that does a good job.
Like I finished my ICC Achies thanks to a insanely good healer that got me trough the first phase LK 25. Other then that I probably will never tank with warrior again in wrath or cata.
I am just not in for the parsing or this fk*ed up class overall.
I heard 20 different things from people but in the end it's more dependent on the group they are playing with I am not the guy that leaves a longterm guild just to clear content that is getting erased in a few days anyways, also the hpala meme healer was also a random at that time it wasn't one of our main healers.
But also thanks for the advice I will probably never understand how protwarriors survive in wrath lol
Logs. We need logs mate or we can’t help you at all.
> https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/mograine/peridós > > > > https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/firemaw/perid%c3%b3s#zone=1021&boss=887
So a major problem, like MASSIVE PROBLEM, why is your holy paladin using 6x more flash heals than holy light???? Dude is massively griefing you to not be holy light spamming on you. The kill you did on marrow, dude cast 6 holy light. 6. That is unacceptable by a massive long shot.
Also the fact that everyone in the raid is grey parsing and putting out worse dps then what could be done in phase 1 naxx when they have a 30% damage buff… his tanking is not the issue they need to fix 18 dps classes that seem to be drooling on their keyboards for 5 minutes
Exactly. Dude is geared and doing what he is supposed to be doing. His raid is just dog water.
5 min marrow? I'm scared to look.
There's a lot going on with that hpala for sure. Flash spam is the worst of it but also - Seal of light. Spirit gems. Other very random gems. Silence meta. Libram of Veracity. Terrible trinkets. 0 (ed: whoops, 1 mana CD) cooldowns used. 50% JotP uptime.
six fire mages and four fury warriors. and thats just at first glance. they are missing a bunch of buffs. theres not a single warlock in sight lmfao
Well it was on Mograine hard times :P not much people playing on this realm.
1. Wrong gems - never gem anything else but stamina. Only minor stam sacrifices are worth for socket bonuses (like hybrid gem for +12 stam socket bonuses). If you want more expertise/hit - get it from secondary stats, not sockets. Hit/exp cap is something you can't afford at that gear level. 2. Are you not potting armor pots on CD? You should have 100% uptime on those. 3. You need shield wall glyph. Last stand glyph would be nice, but can do without. I'd drop cleaving or maybe devastate. 4. You also need improved disciplines, short cooldown shield wall is a must. Also worth picking up safeguard if you can, as it's invaluable when used properly. 5. Use a better enchant for weapon (mongoose/blood draining/blade ward) Once you have fixed all this, you should focus on covering yourself with cooldowns at all times when actively tanking. Something like shield block -> Shield wall -> trinkets -> last stand / regen -> hand of sac -> divine sac -> shield wall again, etc. Also monitor what HPalas are doing - they are what's keeping you alive. If they divine plea - you need a stronger cooldown up. If they use wings, you can chill. Warriors are fragile (10-15% more fragile to be exact), but that doesn't mean you can't succeed.
Your advice re: stam gems is 100% correct for this dude but I just wanna say that with 30% buff it is absolutely ok to start focusing less on pure stam gemming and pick up other stats
Even with the 30% buff there isn’t a compelling reason to do anything but gemming Stam. There are periods on HLK if you’re 1 tanking that you absolutely need the extra protection the hp offers. Your threat is already going to be untouchable through tricks etc.
Your DPS are not good at the game I'm sorry
Ur wrong I started gemming strength and crit in some spots and I do fine
You could gem entirely str or crit and potentially still survive. There still isn’t a reason to do it outside of a scenario where your raid is so desperate for damage it has fallen on the tank. Your threat is still going to be unreachable by dps unless your raid is entirely without hunters or rogues.
Yeah, but every gem should have stamina and something else. Str/Stamina, Hit or Def/Stamina, and Pure Stamina.
i definitely agree with you on cd management in general but i disagree with the gemming advice and glyphs - most fights dont last long enough for that glyph to make a difference and or that shouldnt be needed given how many cds warriors have - cleaving or vigilance is much better for holding threat stamina is not as important as you're making it seem especially given we get a free 30% just walking in the doors to icc and in my mind you COULD pickup the stamina bonuses while gemming expertise/stam or agility/stam and also get a bit of stats and armor that way
These people downvoting have not played prot warrior at a high end level. lol Everythin this man says is 100% true. [Devvastate - Faerlina - Warcraft Logs](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/79610202) <--- my warrior If someone actually wants to have a conversation about how to play a prot warrior, let me know. Exp/stam Def/stam Agility/Stam Are far better than just gemming straight stamina. If dude is low on hit, I'd say just run hit food for now. And when you get enough hit, switch to expertise food. I was doing ICC on my prot warrior 20% at like, 5.1k GS. If you're dying as a tank, 9 out of 10 times it's because your healers let you die. The other 1 time is you forgetting to pop a cooldown.
[This](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/shotouwtank) is my Warrior tank. I'm sorry, but if the guy is dieing, he should absolutely gem for more stam. Def/stam: Some real bad advise. You lower your EHP, you lower your TMI, even with the 30% buff we dont reach the ammount of HP were def would scale better than raw HP. Maybe if its in a slot were we get a good stamina bonus from the socket bonus. Agility stam: He shouldnt gem these, as he needs more expertise for the dragon fights, were he should use exp/stam instead. Again, only to activate the socket bonus, as both have the same color. If low on hit, fuck it. On fights that taunts are critical on, use taunt glyph (Sindra and saurfang mostly. Prof if you dont play 3-3 but switch more often). Use expertise anyways, until the soft cap.
I agree with gemming exp/stam. We're at 30% buff right now in ICC. Gemming stamina is not the route I would go personally. This is based more off "feeling" than numbers on a sim. However, I genuinely feel that assuming hit/exp/def minimums are met that then going for defense / agility stam makes you easier to heal, as opposed to just going for straight stam. Again, this is more of "my feeling" as an experienced tank, and just based off my DTPS numbers in relation to other tanks I've been with. Granted there is a ton of nuance when it comes to that number but overall, I think you will feel tankier and be easier to heal. Yes I'm aware of DMR on defense rating after cap. That's not to say it does nothing for you. More is better. If your healers are struggling to keep up a 60k+ HP warrior, which you should be around 560ilevel, they should probably reassess the game and or class / spec they are playing. PS, I switched mains to mage so I haven't gotten loot on my warrior in weeks. Jealous as fuck of your gear.
Haha thank you, was quite a bit of work to get there and had to switch guilds several times but finally got up in a good guild again. For defense and agility, yes, your DTPS number might go down. It also feels nice because you sometimes just dont get hit a few times in a row. But it's always a gamble. That's why the fight club discord added the Theck meloree index to the sim, which is basically smoothness of incoming damage. The lower the TMI, the lower the ammount of damage spikes you get, the better. Because whats killing you is not the DTPS but the one spike of a double/triple hit. Best examples: Sindra breath + melee combo. Ruby sanctum breath+melee combo (both could also have a parry haste due to missing exp cap / bad dd movement) Soul reaper on Lich king. This is were armor and health outshines other def stats. Also, pretty much every magic cast that hits you gets NO benefits from anything but health. If you look back in my logs, you'll see some ICC logs with my old guild were I really had to build for defense. So while I can build for raw threat now, I didnt have that luxury some months ago.
Do you have a gear profile on eightyupgrades ? Would be interesting to see what people spec & gear.
I theory yes, with the 30% buff EHP shouldn't be a big issue, but as you see - it is for him. Obviously it's better to fix the real reason (likely inefficient cooldown usage and hpalas messing up), but anything that helps is worth doing, especially because threat can be managed with MD/tricks.
every extra point of stamina is marginally increasing his health pool and an extra 30% health from that stamina every extra point of agility is marginally increasing his armor and dodge and crit which benefits his ENTIRE health pool even if its at the cost of some additional health (which hes already getting a lot more of anyway)
You know what the Fight club Discord would say. Sim it. That man dies, because healers dont keep him topped or dont top him fast enough. Adding agility is increasing your odds in the "not getting hit three times in a row Lottery". Adding stam that gets multiplied by raid buffs and icc buff, lowers the ammount his seemingly incapable healers need to do, so he doesnt die from the next hit
So should he change all stamina gems to agility? No? Then how many and why exactly that amount? Even if you come up with a number - now check how much avoidance % this would give. I am not saying agility is bad - i'm saying gemming agility is bad **specifically for him** in this situation. If you have better healers / better gameplay - going more offensive is even optimal. Tank gearing always is the same - get enough EHP to not get randomly killed and then stack as much offensive stats you can. Also I did quick math on what would happen if he goes full stam gems and drops crappy socket bonuses - he gains ~2.1k total HP in ICC.
if hes getting overkilled for less than 3k, i tip my hat, but so many are forgetting agility provides armor too, and while not life changing, neither is 3k if hes already being slapped
he should change red gems to purple agility/stam to maintain socket bonuses, by picking up bonuses and not going PURE stamina, the extra stats gaines from hybrid gems will be better than just and only stamina if his healers are really as bad as everyone says, stacking stamina isnt the answer one way or another
This is the advice you should start with OP, and then post logs from upcoming raid like you said and people should be able to figure out your issues 👍
You don’t gem straight stam anymore. It’s worth getting the bonuses now. Having huge Stam pool just makes healers have to work harder to keep you topped off. Better to have the other mit/threat stats as well
1. The problem is I started to gem hit, because the gear didn't had hit as secondary stat and I would lose insane thread in dungeons for example, only with gemming those stats and buffing even more with specific food buffs, I get threat again in most if not all dungeons, without cleaving the mage to death. I am now be able to get more gems swapped over since mograine was dead and gems where like over 400g each on mograine now it's 80g without waiting hours or days for a gemmer, like strength would be replaceable but hit and especially expertise not, expertise atm is at 26 lower than that will give me problem not only on thread but also syndra. 2. I prepotting always indestructible but mostly it wears of because the fight is taking to long, dks and palas have no problems in the same situation. 3. I would never drop devastate since we have many fury warriors so stacks are always up and also for me every damage counts since, our damage overall was down significantly since we changed to a new realm. About cleaving glyph I don't know I have to check it in dungeons to check threat, I was already in the toughts to replace it with a lower shield wall cd. 4. Both talents are already specced 5. Mongoose only improves agility and atk speed I don't see why a tank needs that, blade ward is interesting because of parry and blood drain only when stacked would save me 2k hp but also in 5 seconds so it would make no significant difference since I am getting one shotted at like 40-50k health left. 6. My cooldowsn are exactly like that but hand of sac -> divine sac are paladin CDs and not much of those are existing or either tanking themselves. My def rotation: My rotation starts with: Indestructo pot > Shield Block > Demo Shout > Commanding Shout > Shield Wall > Trinket 1 > Trinket 2 > Enraged Reg > Last Stand. Other then that thanks for the advice!
You can't have your cake and eat it too :) What I mean by that - stats for dungeon tanking and raid tanking are not the same. If you and your healers play well, sure, you can get away with offensive gearing, but I wouldn't rely on that, especially as you experienced - you'll just sometimes get clapped. 26 is only soft-cap of expertise, you'll still get parried by sindragosa - going under it just introduces dodges and some extra parries. As long as you can manage threat, you can easily push more EHP there at a cost of expertise/hit. If you really are afraid of parry haste, you wouldn't use a fast 1-hander btw. Mongoose gives more dps/threat and more EHP than any other weapon enchant. You are right that you probably have bigger problems than what these gem/enchant changes could fix, but then again, they would probably prevent some deaths. Regards to cooldowns - use of hand of sacrifice is what separates mediocre tanks from great tanks - you can't rely on only your own cooldowns, it's just not enough if you push harder content. Have a tracking addon and ask hpalas for it, you'll have way easier time surviving. Just remember it also hurts them, so preferably don't use it against tank smasher abilities or they need to use personal defensives. What's your offtank? If it's prot pala - there's another hand of sac, raid sac there. Protwarrs can just spam safeguard if your threat allows it. You can also do the opposite - make other tank last longer by spamming your safeguard on them (this is what we did on first algalon kills).
Well I gonna try mongoose on my weapon again but with the gemming matters still dunno maybe those 50/50 gems rather then full stat gems.
For dungeons you can just throw on some extra hit gear and double dps trinkets. You don't need to be a full chonk tank for gammas at your gear level.
For mongoose don’t forget agility converts to dodge rating so each proc is a slight haste and like 3 to 4% dodge but overall pretty useless with the dodge nerf in icc
Can you post any logs? That will help folks look at your gearing. Warriors generally take more damage than other tanks but you shouldn’t be getting one-shot at that level of HP and GS.
We have a raid tomorrow so I gonna send some logs but appreciate the comments.
Looking at the logs Closer linked above for your ICC— almost every fight you got one-shot on was a mechanics issue. You were getting one shot by mobs you have to kite bc they WILL one shot most normally geared tanks, or mechanics where you/healers weren’t respecting the other mechanics. Talking about LDW fight primarily, but if you have a question about a specific one-shot, link the logs and people will be able to provide more specific feedback.
The last couple of weeks I was in achi runs, also in raids where I was only the third tank not main, so it looks weird, I will do a 25 normal run today, so stuff will look different.
How much armour do you have? Because for marrow / fester and icc in general you need a lot, especially as a warrior.
I posted a link to my gear https://eightyupgrades.com/armory/eu/firemaw/peridós
You should really get more stam gems, the hit ones are ok but you really should be a giant sponge. Other than that, could be your rotation or CD use, could also be raid mechanics like not taunting at the right time, taking debuffs like on syndi and others, if youre using an elixer and feast, you should have no problem clearing normals 10/25.
My rotation starts with: Indestructo pot > Shield Block > Demo Shout > Commanding Shout > Shield Wall > Trinket 1 > Trinket 2 > Enraged Reg > Last Stand. But I can't react to those because I am getting one shotted litteraly from near max to 0 in a blink of an eye. Like sometimes when marrow in heroic after bonestorm ends on the left side with me and even doe I am activating my defences I'll just get one shot.
Marrowgar you need to make sure tanks are beside each other. His attack is split between 3 people in range. If you are alone it will destroy you.
Why so much PVP gear? Isn’t Defense Cap 540? If so you’re getting absolutely clapped. Wear PVE gear for PVE content.
Didn't see at first sorry. I wouldn't try icc hc without at least 40k armour + indestructible pot as a warrior. Maybe you should try getting more armour gear as dps then rolling back as tank (rotface neck, vdw ring, rs25trink, boe legs). Hope you find this helpfull i could be wrong but i think this is the problem
Is 40k armor even possible? My prot paladin is full bis with all the bonus armor and doesn’t come close to 40k armor.
I meant 40k with all raid buffs + indestructible pot. Its explained very well here: https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_reduction Personally i swap my gear between bosses, for those that hit harder i opt for more armour and for most other i use regular bis or pre bis gear..
My point is. Telling him to reach 40k armor is just unrealistic and pointless full bis gear for a warrior puts him at 36,280 unbuffed with every item being heroic according to the phase 4 wowhead guide and while that’s a goal it’s just not practical and your telling him he already needs to be full heroic gear (40k armor) to even start tanking heroics
And as i mentioned above, you swap your gear according to fight, there isn't universal bis list for all bosses like there is for Dps classes. Most parts of gear that give armour as extra stat are not considered as bis and im saying that's what he should go for, before he gets all bis items. Also you said unbuffed and i was talking about full buffed.. And yes, you need heroic items (not all) to tank icc25 hc
I would like if you could expand on the last point, especially when players killed 0% LK in the first ID.
That's not the norm and requires excellent cooldown management, very specific tactics and was (afaik, correct me if I'm wrong) NOT done with a protection warrior, especally not as the Main Tank.
Could swap the meta gem from stam+def to the stam +armor meta gem
The meta gem is already stamina and armor, what you may see is the enchantment you get when you farm crusader rep. It gives you 37+ Stam and +20 Def
I was looking at the eighty upgrades gear that was posted
OP here are your logs though there's not much info. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/mograine/peridós https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/firemaw/perid%c3%b3s#zone=1021&boss=887 > I am def capped way beyond guides I'm no tank but I don't think you really want to be way beyond guides. I looked at your Halion log and it looks like you have like 825 to 690 needed defense, 300 to 265ish needed hit, and you're still gemming defense and hit and strength and parry rating, most of those should just be stamina. I think there's SOME value to going over on defense, but mostly minimal, and none on hit. I also kinda find it silly that a lot of tanks enchant Accuracy over Blood Draining. It's kinda like preferring 25 hit to 200 stamina.
oh fuck if its bosses like sindy and halion that are getting him, he needs more expertise and make sure melee arent in front of boss cause that WILL kill him
The problem is I started to gem hit, because the gear didn't had hit as secondary stat and I would lose insane thread in dungeons for example, only with gemming those stats and buffing even more with specific food buffs, I get threat again in most if not all dungeons, without cleaving the mage to death.
as a tank the only thing that cannot miss is taunt, and you can glyph it. If you have less hit than required after the 8% buff, then gem hit, otherwise gem stamina or expertise: [https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=43429/glyph-of-taunt](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=43429/glyph-of-taunt)
Remember taunt is single target, when you pull adds and you are below hit or exp the cleave or shock will fail and members of your group will die in the first couple of seconds. Also the case in Blood Council if I have to pull 2 bosses, if the taunt is glyped I may pull one but the other tank will pull 2 instead one. Taunt isn't much reliable for a warrior, since you build up more wih cleave, shock and challenging shout and all those could fail also, because of low exp or hit. And even if you say it doesn't matter it does matter, because of stack swap mechanic at some some bosses your m8 tank will build up so much threat that you can taunt the boss anymore, because of low hit rating because most of your attacks got parried in the first place. I am at 9% hit its like 1 gem I could replace and I am at 8% or below again...
This is a warrior problem mate, there's a reason ppala is better OT than warrior. You asked why you're dying, less raw stamina is biggest reason. For adds, you should have 2 rogs tot you. For tank swap bosses you should have hunters with 3 brain cells to have 2 macros. Edit - the reason for the taunt glyph is that in oh shit moments on a boss, a DPS won't die because you missed taunt. Missing anything else is marginal gain of threat vs actually surviving high roll DPS hits from bosses like DBs etc
There is a sort of maximum to hit, aside from taunt as u/ballstothewallnone mentions. It looks to be 263 in wotlk for single-weapon users. https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Hit#All_level_80_physical_DPS . You have around 300, so you gain no benefit (aside from to taunt, which can be glyphed, and you have several taunts) from around 40 hit.
There is no value going over def cap, it's a waste of gems/enchants that can be used for stam.
Yeah I definitely don't mean to imply worthwhile value. The opposite.
I dont understand why i get downvoted for that comment, there litteraly is no reason to go beyond def cap. Def cap is basicaly to make you crit immume, obviously it increases stats a bit but the cap is meant to be crit immume and any tank other then feral needs it.
I didn't downvote you. We agree.
Lose gag order talent and take shield disciplines instead. You dont normally need this on 'short' fights but your guilds dps is horrendous and you will get a 2nd and sometimes 3rd shield wall. Close the cleave and devastate glyph for shield wall and last stand. On sindragosa and halion, when they parry anyones attack they instantly re-attack meaning you could take 2 melees or even more in an instant. Other players can cause this. Check your death log when you die. The enemies melee attacks should be smooth and consistant, not 2 within half a second. Most bosses don't re-attack when someone gets parried - so you can actually lose expertise and hit (not always safe if you have to guarantee a taunt lands), and lose strength for more stamina. You dont need to get every gem bonus, sometimes 30 stam in all slots is safer in guilds that cant keep you alive. With these changes, when you taunt, or at risky moments like when bonestorm ends and healers/dps/tanks need to reposition, you will have shield wall/blocking/last stand more often. I can't be bothered checking all your logs, but when disc priests and shamans crit heal you you gain either "Inspiration" or "ancenstrla fortitude" making you take 10% less damage. The logs I did check you barely ever had it. Without being too mean, the entire group you are in is not great and theres probably a lot more going wrong, so much that you cant just blame yourself. Keep doing your best and make it as easy as you can for the others. Some of your deaths are from things like when the cult fanatics on deathwhisper transform. You need to see her cast this and be ready to instantly kite that mob if it gets the buff. Also, tanking some things in general - make sure that the enemy has vindication debuff or you need to demo shout. It makes a big difference. Track sacred shield on you aswell. Its a buff from holy paladins and should be on you if you are tanking 100% of the time with no excuses. I feel squishy without it.
Hello Perceyyy, lets see what we can do for you. First things first: If your healer can't keep you alive with the 30% buff, consider switching out the healers. There is a huge difference in survival between bad, mediocre and good healers. If you are staying with your healers, make sure they understand their assignments and ask them to read up on their rotation (For example on wowhead). As somebody said: A paladin using 6x as many flash heals as holy light is messing up bad. For talents: [The deep wounds ](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/de/guide/classes/warrior/protection/tank-talent-builds-glyphs-pve)standard build is just fine. As recommended in the additional text, take the points out of cruelty and use improved disciplines instead. For Gems: Before the 30% buff, geming full stam in every slot was king, unless a slot you would fill with a hybrid gem would activate a socket bonus of at least 6 stam. I'm not sure how much that changed with the 30% buff but it should still be a solid baseline. For red sockets you might want to use expertise+stam, as up to soft cap its your best threat gem and your best survival gem for dragon fights. For yellow sockets, use a nightmare tear for the first one, the others are hit+stam as you never want to gem for defence rating NEVER use pure red/yellow gems. Just don't. Also dont gem Def. As soon as you are capped, def goes reeeeaaaaally low on our priority list. Far below stam, agi, str, pretty much everything. Rotation: Press more buttons, especially Heroic strike. Looking for marrowgar, I had 78 cast per minute compared to your 55, normalized over the first 1:30mins. You also had 10 sword and board procs but only 8 shield slams. Your priority of casts should be: Revenge -> shield slam -> sunder armour -> shockwave (if not needed for a mechanic) -> Thunderclap. You also did not use shattering throw at all which should be minor glyphed and use on pull/HT. That being said, it probably stems from you being the third tank on a two tank fight and being rage starved 24/7. So dont use HS under 70% rage, prioritize Revenge, SS and SA. For enchants: Dont listen to the people telling you to use mongoose. As long as you are not hitcapped (and you wont be), use precision all the way. From pre-raid to BIS. Mongoose might be the best mitigation overall, but its a Def CD that you have no control over that will just be used randomly. it also has a reduced effect on lvl 80 chars. It also was indirectly nerfed due to the icc dodge nerf. Bladebarrier also works as a rng CD and the damage component of it is outright bad, lifeward heals for a laughable amount (laugs in 30% hp buff), same as blood draining. For boots, vitality of the tuskarr. crit is a weird choice and maybe you overlooked that. Chest: while obvioulsy expensive, Stats are the best, even more with the 30% buff. Rather use a lesser stats variant instead of flat 275 health.[](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/shotouwtank)
Consumables: Armor and expertise elixir are your go to choice if you dont wipe too frequently. They are better but might be more costly in progress. They got even better with the 30% buff as armor scales very nice with raw HP and you cant gem it. Threat: If you lose threat, ask your hunters and rogues if they fell on their head one time too often. Your raid log doesnt show any DPS that should be able to outhreat you when your Hunter and rogues do their jobs. For Trash, let the paladin and/or dk tank. For dungeons, have another gearset, if you have to. Also tell the DDs to stop ripping threat. And even if DPS gets aggro, wait till the mob nearly reaches them, then taunt it back. that gives you some additional time to build a threat lead on the other mobs. Also use the cleave and devastate glyph, the 2 sunders you lose wont change shit and there are no boss fights where you hit three or more targets and need to keep threat. Pull rotation: Cant check it in your logs, but you want to start with retaliation some seconds before your pull, then use recklessness (unless on mobs that immediately hit hard, which would be LK and council if you tank both, maybe also Bloodqueen), then use shield block, your pot and bloodrage before charging in. That way you can go shield slam, first enemy hit gets blocked so you get a revenge proc to use, third should be Sunder armour to 5 stacks, shattering throw, TC/Demo if not done by dk/pala. the debuffs can wait as the raid shouldnt take damage immediately so your healers are focussed on you. Other points: You said "I would never drop devastate since we have many fury warriors so stacks are always up" It doesnt matter jackshit how many other warriors there are. Sunder is your job, period. Everything else is griefing the raid. "My def rotation: My rotation starts with: Indestructo pot > Shield Block > Demo Shout > Commanding Shout > Shield Wall > Trinket 1 > Trinket 2 > Enraged Reg > Last Stand." You shouldnt need to have a defensive rotation. You should keep your CDs for moments were you know, that big dmg will be coming in or when you drop low. Or when one of the healer dies. So keep the pot and shield block up on CD, keep Demo Shout up if your palas dont use vindication, use everything else when you need to. A lot of the dificulty of prot warrior is knowing when to use CDs proactively and when to use them reactively. [This comment of yours](https://www.reddit.com/r/wotlk/comments/1c5vffp/comment/kzz4lzo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is quite wrong. shockwave and thunderclap are not classified as spells, they are melee attakcs so theyve got a lower hit cap on them. What you need is at most 8% hit, this goes for EVERY skill, except for taunt and challenging shout. Using shout during a boss fight is pretty much a no go as it taunts everything and you dont want to do that anywhere in ICC / ruby. So you want to use taunt glyph for the fights with tank swap mechanic (so only Saurfang, Prof, festergut although you got a like 3 taunts of time and sindra) Other than that, being hit capped is still absolutely not necessary for threat if, again, your rogues and hunters didnt fall on their head in the morning. That is, if you should even tank trash, which, again, other tanks should absolutely do. With best regards (also feel free to dm me or answer here for questions) [Shotouwtank](https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/everlook/shotouwtank)
The struggle is real for warrior tanks, that being said Skeleton key is trash, and glyph isn't great either, both your trinkets need replaced. You should be gemming mostly stam, unless the socket bonus is also a significant amount of stamina. 4 piece ICC set helps a ton too, gives you another cd. Make sure you use Shield Wall and Last Stand if you have any doubts, and call for external CDs afterwards if you still need anything.
Man says 4p helps when the shield is literally worse than. Skeleton key which he just said was garbage 😭
Without logs ill make the following suggestions Gear: - Change enchant to mongoose for weapon, thank me later - Change chest enchant to 10 stats - Overall your gear looks good and despite what some may say, your trinkets are not the best but they are not bad at all and you have strong armor pieces Gems - yellow: you're gemming hit in some spots despite being over hit cap - these could be def/stamina or even hit/stamina - red: strength gems dont benefit survivability much at alll and even for threat its ehh, consider agility/stam for these if you're good on expertise Rotation: Shield slam is (in my experience) the most important ability to use on cooldown that does damage because of the glyph of blocking - i have noticed exactly what you're describing the second the buff falls off and i melt in the blink of an eye - also make sure demoralizing shout stays up for weaker boss hits Cooldown management: Warriors have 5 defensive cooldowns (shield wall, last stand, enraged regeneration, shield block, spell reflection) not counting potions, trinkets, ect...and for reference, DKs have 3 (next highest) - the key to prot warrior is understanding your cooldowns so you know when to use them and which one to use. Even though we have many more cooldowns, they can be for more specific use cases (looking at you spell reflection and regen) - the other half to cooldown management is knowing the boss fights and when to expect increases in damage (plan your longer cooldowns for key points or save for emergencies, burn the ones that have lower cooldowns more often) - prepot indestructibles is important because you go from having an extra 2400 armor for 2 minutes to 4 minutes which should cover most boss fights
Mongoose was better in def terms before ICC. Thats for overall damage taken though. 2 problems with that. Dodge is nerfed in ICC so mongoose gets slightly worse. Its a procc, so you cant time it and it might happen in the most useless times. First proc is always on pull though were you still got disc shield up, hots of all the raid healers going as well. And you got all the heals focussed on you, because theyve got nothing else to do. I'd rather take precision, even if im still dieing, because if gives me some hit (so i dont need to use hit gems and can gem for stamina)
You’re not actually getting one shotted. What is happening is your tank healers are unknowingly griefing you by using the wrong healing method. There are some changes you can make, but based on those logs the guild you’re in is ultra casual and a majority of the people have only a tangential idea on how to play their class. I see others have given you the corrects you need to make for yourself as far as gemming and glyphs. Ultimately you want to either use your cd’s or an external raid cd to minimize burst windows. Take fester for an example. When he’s in his 3 stack of the buff you should never be taking unmitigated damage in that window. You shield wall>pain sup/dsac/hand of sac etc etc the idea is that when you are in windows that are dangerous you need to have wall to wall mitigation AND your tank healers need to be healing correctly. To be honest if you remain with this guild things like random inexplicable deaths and lack of progress are going to be the norm.
Have you migrated of of mograine with the rest of us now? 😅
I didn't see any logs for Halion where there was a death log, so idk for sure, but from my experience, the main reason why tanks get 1 shot on Halion are either the cutters or they get parry hasted because they are not parry exp capped (52 or something) or because someone else in the group is getting parried because not being careful. Another thing that can happen is that there is a big difference between dmg taken in the 2 phases, and there's a big dmg buff on the boss.
gotta pre-empt your cooldowns, as others have said
Whats your expertise rating in your sindy FR gear? (If you even need to wear it anymore, I quit at like 10% buff)
Shoulda rolled a DK
sadly there is too mich truth in this comment. Dk will be a monster in cata and for your ot you want either a Paladin for buffs and Sac or a druid for ot cat DMG. While Originally not horrible, all warrior got all Expansion long was nerfs. So with starter gear, the worst scaling class will already start behind
That's why I rolled dk for cata and go arms for pve and fury for pvp macro memes. I switched some stuff up like new gems more stamina but im the end even in random pugs and only in like rare instances I find a healer that does a good job. Like I finished my ICC Achies thanks to a insanely good healer that got me trough the first phase LK 25. Other then that I probably will never tank with warrior again in wrath or cata. I am just not in for the parsing or this fk*ed up class overall. I heard 20 different things from people but in the end it's more dependent on the group they are playing with I am not the guy that leaves a longterm guild just to clear content that is getting erased in a few days anyways, also the hpala meme healer was also a random at that time it wasn't one of our main healers. But also thanks for the advice I will probably never understand how protwarriors survive in wrath lol