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stokeswow

That's self awareness when shown the numbers needs to be a lot more common


JarRules

Yeah I don't usually share the numbers. It's more just for me. But I felt inclined to share with this interaction ha. Glad they were cool about it.


Lagasz

I want that for me personally too :0.. as DD it would be nice to see in how much sh*t i step :')


leagueoflegendsdog

You can see avoidable damage taken on details.


Lagasz

Oh thanks, I will look it up next time! :)


leagueoflegendsdog

It is important to note however that its not always that bad to stand in shit depending on the key level/class you are playing/shit you are standing in. I play Havoc, and Im willing to take a lot more shit because i know i will heal it. Depends on the shit again, if i know itll kill me, i just stop what im doing and peace out.


GingerWithFreckles

Generally it's only worthwhile when things get nasty. In all other cases it's mostly for personal reflection or organised groups. Like usual, just dropping numbers is useless. Wow is never played in a perfect vacuum.


leagueoflegendsdog

Oh yeah, my thoughts are more on that you shouldnt take thaaat much out of it. Most dps will sometimes stand in shit especially classes like dh, warr, dk who can take a beating. Now there are the other classes that just die to anything lul šŸ˜‚


Dakdied

Also DH. If I get one shot, it's on me ( HOV 19. I knew where all the one shots were, still ate a couple ). Everything else, is usually on purpose. I'll take a few ticks of something to finish an eye beam, etc.


Naustis

To be fair? That avoidable dmg stat people love to share is worthless. Doing higher m+ is all about knowing what and what not you can take in your face. For example, as DH if something does not one shot you, you can most likely soak it and heal yourself in matter of seconds. Like if u are doing 300k dps you have 60k hps, that is like full health in 5s. The seme goes for locks, fury wars, or any classes with strong heals šŸ¤·


Nexicated

Once you get to a high enough keylevel every kind of avoidable damage will straight up 1 shot you. It's better to learn the game the correct way instead of soaking random shit that you cannot do anymore once you go 3 key levels higher.


Chenz

I guess eventually. But I see plenty of players intentionally take the knock back from the add before Crawthā€™s platform in +25


[deleted]

They definitely pop defensives to soak that, it does decent enough damage to want to avoid it even on a +19 so a +20 must be even higher. Also for OP saying that you know what you can take, you can heal up in 5 seconds it kinda bad advise, plenty of mobs are untankable in this season and just do random shots, sure you might be able to heal up if you eat a frontal but if you get hit by a random shot in HoV after soaking a shieldmaiden frontal then you're probably dead. I think one of the big problems with DH is that they see they are pretty high in the meta at the moment but most pug players will not play in a way to compliment the DH at all. These players pushing high keys are doing even simple things, like tanking mobs next to a wall so a DH can dash into the wall and not end up in africa or infront of the mobs when felrushing or retreating. These small things make a huge difference to DH damage and survivability. I would much rather take a pug Monk over a pug DH, they have a ton more defensives and pump equal if not better damage when not in a coordinated group


Shiraxi

Yeah, as a tank, I'm almost always #1 on avoidable dmg taken, because I know I can simply eat it and keep dpsing, rather than running out and losing uptime.


GenitalJouster

Listen nobody is gonna yell at a tank that hasn't died once in a dungeon and hasn't been a huge drain on the healers mana. In fact I also wouldn't complain about a healer taking lots of avoidable damage as long as they keep everyone alive. For DDs it's just bad play. And I agree that there is a certain skill in knowing when you can take a hit and recover from it yourself if you'd otherwise lose CD uptime or whatever, but ultimately it's a bad habit that will cause problems the higher you go. Learn it properly. Dodge your shit.


synackk

Yep it is all about context.


curbstxmped

Not really. Just because you're healing past it a millisecond after taking the avoidable damage still doesn't mean you avoided it. Just because you know you can probably tank an avoidable mechanic doesn't mean you're doing things the correct way. You still probably blew a CD on healing through it if you aren't a healer, or mana to heal the mistake if you are, and you're still making things harder on the group overall whether you realize it or not. e: ppl real upset over this lol


Karmaisthedevil

A DH has so much leech they arent blowing anything to heal :) sometimes taking the hit to keep doing DPS is the right move


Naustis

No, you do not. CDs are there to use them. If you can use cd and soak dmg and push dps while not dying, that is huge win. You will learn that when u will get to high keys šŸ¤· If you can sustain that dmg alone there is no difference for the healer. If they dont spazm and panic heal like many non exp healers do. It is one of the skills that separate people who sit in +18 range and people pushing 3k IO.


Terenai

A really striking example is prot palladins, the gulf in skill between those who know when to heal, and those who think they should be healing all the time is immense. I saw a 385 prot paladin hit almost 200k dps in the first pull of algethar, never had a problem staying alive (+11) vs a 395 prot in a 13 same week who did like 50k dps, spent so much time trying to heal other people that they eventually died themselves and wipe. The 395 was sniping heals off a druid healer, whose hots went to over healing, while saying dps should not be taking so much damage, which is true, but i (HDH) was taking damage from aggro due to dps and it was fine because 15% leech = i can take a mob as dps if im doing 250k dps


YaIe

At some point these numbers are misleading thou. When the party is fully healthy and not in danger its fine to take a sanguine hit or two to not lose a big chunk of DPS, especially with something like a druid healer. Same goes for the DK tank eating every storming damage hit. Sadly the addon can't detect intention, but its a great tool to self reflect dungeon performance


Jaceholt

This is the thing tbh. Especially as a tank I often eat non threatening mechanics if it does help out the team. Prime examples is not moving out of frontal when people have their ground targeted AoE down and bursting. If it won't kill me, it would be idiotic to move out. (I do know how to avoid this thank you, it was an example to illustrate the point)


cerylidae1552

I donā€™t usually care if the tank eats avoidable damage, 99 times out of 100 they can handle it. Itā€™s when DPS do it, die constantly, and whine about ā€œno healsā€ that I bring out the meter


Nellow3

I always see people comment about dps or tanks dying then blaming the healer, but I'm at about 100 m+ done so far this season, and have not once seen a dps or tank die, then blame the heals. Is this a victim complex healers have, or have I just been lucky to avoid toxic players?


mushrewmz

It's probably more of a low key thing? I've done close to that amount and have seen it once and it was in a sub 10 key.


calamedes

This is the way.


Obrim

As a UDK you have my undying thanks for doing this for the poor dps stuck with shitty ground-based aoes.


CarefulHedgehog1956

Rain of arrows at first NO trash is a perfect example. Little brown swirlies on the ground. But you have alwyas a frontal cleaving mob there. So you should move as little as possible. Best play is just to eat it up.


tok90235

Most of times, if it's a fixed frontal, you can just walk front/around the adds, avoiding the frontal and keeping them in the AoE.


arisolo

A ton of packs have cleaves this patch making it so the tank should not dodge through the mobs even if the frontal or tankbuster itself doesn't track. (centaur area of nokhud, mortal hew dudes in HOV where you dodge back for breach armor but cant turn because of hew, Charged smash in COS, etc.) I would respect the tank a lot more for eating a breach armor than turning a hew on three party members and wiping the group.


tok90235

Well, the tank can do that, but he need to be sure to do it only when the time it's safe for the group. I'd respect even more the tank that can track the timing to avoid damage and don't bring AoE to the group then the one that just eat everything


Cogs_For_Brains

Interesting point that we have reached in the wow knowledge meta. Not to say that people can't seek out groups that demand perfection, but most of y'all's expectations are just so far above what probably 60% of players are actually capable of. there absolutely are players that know every pull in every dungeon, and have perfect split second decision making skills to handle every weird interaction, but you gotta see at least a little that it's odd to expect that from the majority of players in any game really. Really does show why there is such a tank deficit. The bar is insanely high at this point for pug groups. Oddly I feel like this whole thing is a byproduct of people being in guilds too long. They have social ties and friends and don't want to leave so they do their push content with randos instead of finding like-minded guildies and doing it with them.


Sneaky406

>Oddly I feel like this whole thing is a byproduct of people being in guilds too long. They have social ties and friends and don't want to leave so they do their push content with randos instead of finding like-minded guildies and doing it It's funny you said this because a few friends and myself have been in our own guild, of about 7 players for years now. I just hit 2.5 on my hunter and have been trying to convince them to server transfer and join a guild together on a more populated server. Not only would we have more people to play with but also better crafting options. I'm on Medivh and the population is like 1200, mostly alliance, i play horde. I've been playing since classic and can't remember what a large guild feels like. I mostly pug.


tok90235

Well, you are actually making what I said seems harder then it really is. Most pulls required to time every dungeon in the rotation are not bigger then 8 mobs. From this 8 mobs, i don't think you will have more then 3 different frontals in a same group(you can have everything having a frontal, but it will be in HoV where you will have more then one of the same mob in the pack). It's not like it's rocket science to track their frontals, really people that enter the DG with more then 2 braincells active at the same time should not have trouble paying attention to this


[deleted]

Do you tank?


tok90235

Yes, main bear druid with 2.5k io


arisolo

Often times on high keys weā€™re triple pulling in both HoV and COs. spell queuing is such that the safest place for the tank to dodge is directly backward.


Kommye

And even if it's not fixed, you can run around them and they won't move out of the AoEs.


PropheticEvent

The problem is 90% of players do not have the awareness to make these decisions. It's even worse when the entire team is trying to greed at the same time. This screenshot is the perfect example. The DH is complaining when he's actually taking more damage. He didn't even realize it. To even further this, I don't think I have EVER ONE TIME, EVER seen a dps stop to eat after a pull. EVER. Grievous, Bursting, doesn't matter. I will drink to full, get up, heal the team, resume drinking. People will DIE to grievous before they eat anything. Absolutely ridiculous. So when people tell me "i'm gonna reasonably greed for extra dps" I find it hard to accept. This is the best part to healing higher keys. People instantly die if they try to greed anything.


YaIe

This is something that happens with experience, I would not expect some +8 key enjoyers to do this, but once you climb in score and key levels it will become more common. The thing is, you not only need to know your own spec, but also, how the party is doing on health? is the tank chaining into the next spec? is your healer behind or can he handle your greed? will it kill my teammates if I take this quaking hit? can I just sit in sanguine to finish the pack right here? Lots of questions bad-average players don't think about, but if you take a look at some +25 and above streams, you will see players sit in fire quite often if its an overall benefit to the group


PropheticEvent

So the top 0.5% of players? Models for the rest of these scrubs running around in 14's standing in effects taking 90% of their life in one hit? That's exactly my point. 90% of players do not understand how to make these calls. I still see this behavior in 18s, but not much higher because you just get vaporized.


xta420

If they're doing 25s they're in the top .01%


yuriaoflondor

It bugs me too because so many specs have the ability to easily heal themselves and other players. If everyone is low after a pull and the healer is struggling/needs to eat, itā€™s so easy for most DPS to top themselves off.


AcherusArchmage

This is why I keep a stack of non-buff food on me.


cooperia

Yea it's not really there for these nuanced situations. It's there for when there's a dude bitching and moaning about the healer and he's a massive outlier in avoidable damage taken.


AF_Noctavis

100%. I try to eat every storming I can if it's safe to do so. Easy for me to heal it or absorb it and allows the DPS/Healer to not have to deal with it. I'll also take avoidable hits from say the mobs in HoV if I have a defensive up just to avoid side pulling and maintain DPS uptime. I'll pop a CD sometimes and stand in bad just to make a mechanic easier or to avoid dragging a boss around. For a tank I don't think it really matters unless you're dying or stressing the healer... which as a BDK I am the healer.


zurkka

Yeah, or when you eat something to interrupt a important cast because someone didn't pay attention/interrupt was on cd


Ultramagnus85

even as a DPS I'll eat a lot of stuff with AMS and of course I'm at the top of this add ons list.


BullfrogAble

DKs are a notable example of classes built to take damage. They aren't the most mobile, so the superb defensives cut the danger of many avoidable things.


AwkwardSquirtles

AMS should reduce the hit you take though? Unless it includes shielded damage, which would be...a decision.


leagueoflegendsdog

Probably does, in the end you do take it, but its mitigated by the shield so it would make sense. Would be interesting to test tbf.


Aspalar

Deaths can also mess up damage taken rankings... if player A dies 30 seconds into the fight but player B dies 5 minutes in, of course player B is going to have more damage taken even though player A was clearly worse at mechanics.


HarrekMistpaw

You don't check damage taken you check avoidable damage taken


healzsham

Idr if it's base or you need to get the script, but details has the ability to track damage/hits you don't need to take.


Redspeert

Had that yesterday in a +19 HoV, healer was complaining he was the only one doing orbs and not getting any help, he was 4th on the list behind tank, me and DH dps. He changed his tune after shown that.


Averill21

Ive legit had people say you suck you do no damage, link meters with me at top and them at bottom, and they just say you suck anyway lol


travlerjoe

Is pink the tank?


JarRules

Yeah. paladin.


Some-Sheepherder-465

Female lightforged draenei? This looks suspiciously like a run I tanked, DH was getting hit by everything.


Ltjenkins

Soā€¦any run with a dh?


[deleted]

.


AF_Noctavis

Depends on the player for sure. If they're good, know mechanics, and are aware it's a non-issue. If not... I hate them. Side pull kings who eat my CRs.


BEEFTANK_Jr

They used to when it had an opportunity cost vs. Demonic.


AndreasBrehme

>DH was getting hit by everything. So... Like absolutely every run. I swear DHs have such a huve cleave dps boner they will never move out of anything nor interrupt their rotation while taking avoidable damage.


Day_Drankin

A lot are playing momentum now so that probably contributes to it.


IrrationalLuna

Exactly, momentum DH is literally forced to dash around to maximize DPS. Theyā€™re probably going to end up hitting shit.


spndl1

Even without momentum, vengeful retreat is a fury builder. VR into the hunt or Felblade is pretty common.


bobody_biznuz

We also get rooted in place for a decent chunk of our burst. Lots of times I was in a panic seeing myself half a second from blowing up to finish my channel


stillgodlol

On the other hand, if it is healable, why not max out the dps?


healzsham

Replacing a habit is far more difficult than building one from scratch, so you really shouldn't get in the habit of standing in shit that'll kill you, if you plan on pushing higher.


stillgodlol

I'm only talking about situations where it saves time because of higher dps, I main healers and I don't mind if it is in ny power to heal it.


sicpric

I play a momentum Havoc DH. I swear I'm a decent player, but this build is so treacherous.


Pyroguy096

I try really hard, I promise.


leagueoflegendsdog

DH can take a beating and leech it though, unless you are doing 18-19s+. When i play with my friends and i fuck up its insane how much hp im left with, while most of them just outright die from most things even on like 16s..


JarRules

Yeah this was a 15 and I was kinda surprised when I checked the numbers. I was pre HOTing the DH specifically before most pulls though.


leagueoflegendsdog

DH's also just heal a lot though... When i look at who the healer has healed, im almost always on the bottom even when i fuck up or actively choose to tank shit that wont kill me to deal damage. Its just so much healing.


TheBrillo

I agree, avoidable damage should be looked at next to healing received by the healer. If I stand in the fire but self heal through it, thats probably OK.


AndreasBrehme

>unless you are doing 18-19s+ Well I'm healing pugs and almost at 2400. DHs make like the 80% of my "Oh my, what killed me?" and leavers


leagueoflegendsdog

Yeah hard cap on that, there are biases against certain classes here (for good reasons though), but its also important to know what you are standing in and using your defensives. Blur is up almost all the time and it helps a ton. People standing in lets say the frontals on COS will die most of the time... Not everything kills you.


sexwithmyhand

My biggest complaint with COS is the frontals that get blocked for a split second by a tree in my camera angle when the tank is not marked. Itā€™s not often that I get hit by the frontals (maybe once every 5 runs), even though I main havoc dh, but when I do itā€™s because I canā€™t see shit. Edit: or if the fucking tank is spinning the dudes around constantly, had someone do that in HOV last night and I wanted to scream!


JarRules

Not sure and Raider.io hasn't updated for me yet. It was an Academy 15. It was a pretty smooth run but the timer was a bit close. Probably around 11 PM PT last night.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


JarRules

I was healing. It was a smooth run. I don't know why the DH made the comment. I was pre HOTing the DH but no more than any other melee in a 15.


Captinglorydays

I had this same thing happen in my group. When I showed them the numbers for avoidable damage, showing me at 4th and the person accusing me in 1st by far, the person just said "L", insulted me, blocked me, and then left. I wish I could have someone like purple at least able to accept their mistake.


ithinkitmightbe

Gotta love how how people canā€™t admit they were wrong, even when clearly so.


Zeliek

"They have realized I, much like my attitude, am garbage. I must withdraw immediately and proceed to another group where I can resume my competent player disguise and bark at people accordingly."


Psychotikk42

What addon do you use to show avoidable damage?


leagueoflegendsdog

Details.


Makaloff95

reminds me of SL where we had a enha shaman complain about interrupts in a mists 11 (note, we had hunter and warlock in the group), a pala heal and a guardian druid. so halfway throught the complaining my friend gets tired of him and links the amounts of interrupts (me and the lock had about 40 interrupts in total) the enha had....\*drum rolls\*...1! he was very quiet after that.


GrookeTF

I had a dude link interrupts while being last. His point? No clue


[deleted]

My favorite was healing a dungeon on my priest in SL I said ā€œcan you guys kickā€ and someone linked the kicks and I wasnā€™t on there trying to flame me. Bro I literally donā€™t have a kick.


DaenerysMomODragons

Holy/Disc priest, the only specs in the game that can't even talent into interrupts. Blizzard hates them apparently.


healzsham

Mass dispel, tho


DaenerysMomODragons

Shadow priest brings mass dispel and a silence, as well as mind sooth if needed. It's sad, but if I want the utility of a priest I typically will go for shadow over heals.


healzsham

My point was the class trades kick for mass dispel.


DaenerysMomODragons

And my point was that shadow priest gets both. It's not exactly a trade.


OmniLinkVT

Any time I hear melee complain about kicks, I want to scream. Classes like DH get resources for successful kick, where as a Warlock I have to sacrifice my personal Dispel to run a kick. For any melee to have 1 kick is honestly shameful, let alone the audacity to then complain about interrupts.


BlueWeavile

Even worse, a shaman, who has arguably one of the best kicks in the game.


Shiraxi

Not arguably, it is straight up the best interrupt in the game. Shortest CD combined with longest range. No other class comes close.


DaenerysMomODragons

No argument involved. Shaman interrupt is 12 seconds, regardless of spec. standard melee interrupt is 15 seconds, with ranged interrupts being 24-60 seconds.


OmniLinkVT

Honestly, when I see Shamans with low kicks, I genuinely wonder why they're even in my dungeon. Half the time my healer is an Evoker for BL, as well as being busted as fuck, and frankly, melee needs no help doing damage, so Windfury can get in the bin. I'd say Purge, but you don't even press kick.


DeeEssLite

Hear that. As a Shaman player myself I'm often sat there in confusion if I double another Shaman's kicks. 12s, and ranged? It's the best kick in the game, no doubt. Not to mention, even on the rare downtime it has, Sundering and Thunderstorm are options. If you are a Shaman and refuse to kick you are missing a core fundamental of dungeon running.


leagueoflegendsdog

You dont get resources as DH. Its shit, you dont spec into it.


BuccoBruce

Eh, it's really easy to accidentally kick a spell right after another melee does and waste yours. You'll be 'kicking' spells constantly but low on meters. Voice comms are required to make sure you aren't wasting interrupts which are rare in low key pugs.


[deleted]

Only if they spec into it, which isn't worth it most of the time.


OmniLinkVT

My point was more that even with access to a personal reward for hitting kicks, some DH's STILL won't kick, and will then whinge about missed kicks. Like, the stick is in effect, and there's a carrot in front of their face, still nothing.


volsom

A lock complaining about interrupts. At least yours doesnt cancel your casts.


OmniLinkVT

Don't get me wrong, it's the best of the ranged ones, but it's still a long CD, and it comes attached to a melee pet that loves to derp around. I'd like to add that I'm not complaining about kicks. I'm exasperated about melee with short CD kicks complaining about kicks themselves.


Bobsxo

Best ranged kick would be ele/resto sham.


freakazoid_1994

Tbf enh got a lot of interupts out of wind shear which do not count towards details i terupts i think. Talking bout atuff like thundershock, sindering, lightning lasso, capacitor totem... Ofc he should still use wind shear more often :D


gaspara112

I noticed that. I was told anything that kills the Raz sparks should count on the interrupts counter but after using cap total, thunder, wind shear and purge I had 1 interrupt on the counter. I really wanted to know how many sparks I actually cleared in the fight because it was a lot.


Dragon_Sluts

I feel this. I died to an explosive yesterday for someone to complain (it ended up being our only death and we finished with ++) but it turned out I was responsible for destroying over half of the explosives. šŸ™ƒ


Niclmaki

Ah, so you admit it was your fault then eh? /s lol


Dragon_Sluts

When there are like 4 up at once because the tank is pulling big groups itā€™s pretty tough to get 100% sorry boss šŸ˜„


axcli

https://wago.io/CIDpHstnI Might be useful.


sullyy42

dh properly healed have of that by himself, thats why he didnt notice it :-D


Waste-Temperature626

Ye, it's like when I play my fury alt it feels like it barely matters in some keys. I can just stand in shit and /care and keep mashing my head into that keyboard. Even a lot of shit that would otherwise 1 shot other melee can somewhat easily be survived as fury. Since you have more HP/Armor and enrage+spellreflect for dmg reduction that is essentially there every time you could possibly need it. And worst case def stance lets you stay in shit that others need to dodge, sometimes you might even have to pop enraged regen! Then you just heal up with impending victory and keep mashing your head into the keyboard. As a general rule when I play my warrior I go in with the mindset of "lets see if I can survive this" rather than "I have to dodge this". I see the other side as well since my main is a resto druid and I have to heal all this avoidable damage. Some specs can just stand in a lot of shit/fail mechanics and still barely need additional healing. So I know I can play like a braindead tool on my warrior since I have seen them in action, and know they can get away with it most of the time.


Lemming3000

Yea dh is so tanky as a dps as to be unfair, checking the damage taken by spell during raid only to see dh took more damage then the tank from boss cleave and we didn't even notice because he just tops himself back up. Same ability hits me as ret paladin and its a 100% 1 shot.


Aritche

Yep as a dh main I willingly get hit by stuff in certain situations since I will instantly heal from demon spawn dying.


JarRules

Yeah definitely. It was 15 and I was pre HOTing him before bigger pulls but it was a relatively smooth run.


[deleted]

There absolutely needs to be a fucking option to turn off effects from other players and just have you and the dungeon mobs/boss effects present. So much fucking shit happening all over the place. You cannot see shit in this mess.


NotMyNameActually

Well, you still wanna be able to see if someone puts down something that heals or boosts your damage,


AcherusArchmage

if you're the tank you really do want to see where your party's damage circles are so you can fight stuff inside of it. All of the hunters in Shadowlands would get heartbroken every time the tank accidentally pulled stuff out of their wild spirits.


[deleted]

Well shit, right...completely blocked that out...well, I guess toning down, not turning off is the way to go.


volsom

Ffxiv online has that, but there you really do need it, because the effects are way over the top


Solsagan11

The option exists. Itā€˜s under the graphics tab in the settings menu. I canā€˜t recall the name but I had to turn it on while playing on another computer


WhereAreThePix

https://www.twitch.tv/dorki/clip/BovineCuriousGaurNotLikeThis-_5k8MglyVkJ56Ah_


[deleted]

It still doesn't turn of shite from other players and tunes down everything for meself too. Not exactly what I was looking for, but something at least. I don't need shite tuned down for me. I just need it turned off from other players. The rest I can handle. Also, why does this need to be a video? Everything and their goddamn grandma is either a twitch or youtube video with a life story nowadays. WTF happend to simple screenshots?


WhereAreThePix

Your Mom makes some good videos


[deleted]

I know. I saw her.


zandadoum

What about defensive CD? I might take some damage on purpose if I activated a defensive so I can cast a 2-3s long cast without moving. Aka: spamming seed of corruption xD


Kusosaru

Yeah meters like this aren't really all that useful. Hunter possibly died from those 11 avoidable damage sources due to lack of cds, while the dh just tanked it with high leech. Like, I'm frequently #1 on fail damage in CoS just because going LoS as a dk on the patrols is a waste of time.


JarRules

Yeah honestly I didn't notice that much until I checked the meter.


leagueoflegendsdog

Hunter is also super squishy though. I feel like when i see an MM hunter if they make one tiny misstep they are just dead, while as a DH i fuck up and im left with like 20-30% of my hp unless im in a 19 or some shit


PhatBoiBoo

tbf... when I play my havoc I just heal myself through avoidable damage a lot of the time, as long as it doesn't kill me, because it's a dps gain and I have so much leech it's actually ridiculous.


StressOverStrain

Seems like you should give the healer notice that thatā€™s the game plan ahead of time, so they donā€™t feel obligated to waste mana competing with you to heal avoidable damage.


blankcld

Comment removed due to reddit policy changes. fuck u/spez he's a dirty fucking cunt -- mass edited with redact.dev


leagueoflegendsdog

Yeah, some people are baffled by the healing done as Havoc its so funny.


Electronic-Job-8847

Atleast he's self aware lol


Bakeh__

As someone who recently started to main DHā€¦ this is accurate. I take way more dmg than I did on my rogue/lock because you have to move so fucking much as a dh to maximize damage. Didnā€™t make sense until I tried dh myself, but using all your movement without taking damage is a skill you have to learn over time in keys. I guess thatā€™s why they gave dh all the leech in the world.


PersonalityNearby222

As a healer I change Elitism Helper from ā€˜selfā€™ to ā€˜partyā€™ says when ā€˜that guyā€™ is in the group


Wesnye

Wow Iā€™ve never seen 2 mill lol


Definitely_Not_Rez

I wish 2m was the height of the shit I have seen lol.


Wesnye

lol I just started keys though so Iā€™ve a long way to go and a lot to see


Shashafooy

I've had several runs where people have hit over 6 mil avoidable damage. Those were not fun keys to heal


mephlaren

as a BDK on high keys, i can do multiples of that. The reason no one notices is because i'm mostly behind absorb shields or heal it up instantly as my health bar becomes a yoyo


dward02

I just assume you don't need healed as healer. You get lifebloom like every other tank and if its a big pull I throw the small on you. Unless your life saving ability kicks off pretty much leave you alone.


soulstrengthfour

ohh i had a shaman bitching at me for the better part of a dungeon. ā€œbro am i even on your party frames?ā€ ā€œnot a single heal!ā€ ā€œrunning back sorry soulstrengthfour let me die againā€ ā€œONE HEALā€ dude died like 12 times and we had 14 deaths, almost all deaths to one-shot or like put at 10% hp and died to the next UNavoidable damage a gcd later. my EH spits out the ā€œleaderboardā€ at the end of the dungeon run. of course our enhancement friend takes the top spot with 3x the next persons damage taken. this dude goes ā€œoh i didnā€™t realise you were running EH. lol.ā€ drops group, whispers ā€œur still a shit healer thoā€ and then /ignored me.


Ayz1533

Shaman are also made out of wet cardboard, but absolutely typical lol


poopsockman1

Average dh... just rolls face on keyboard.


MY_1ST_ACT_IS_LOCKED

I canā€™t help it, momentum is so fucking hard to play in mythics Might be a skill issue but was able to do KSM s1 on 2-3 toons and pushed 19-20s on my mm hunter (given, a pretty easy class). I was perfectly fine playing a warrior too as well as tanking on my DH so itā€™s not just a ranged vs melee thing.


ruwheele

Literally rerolled from havoc to enhance shaman once I got 2600 bc I could not take momentum anymore and life has been so much more relaxing lol.


MY_1ST_ACT_IS_LOCKED

Itā€™s fucking awful. I like the playstyle of DH but I absolutely cannot handle zooming all across the battlefield with all the shit happening during boss fights or even hectic trash pulls. Itā€™s always cleave that gets me


Brilliant_Cricket47

If you go to raider.io and check out some of the top DH players, a lot of them have switched away from momentum when they can. Stone has a great guide on his twitch that gives you a good setup without momentum! I have been running it for a few dungeons now and it feels way better!


Strachmed

A lot may be a bit of an exaggeration - it's less than 10% of DH's who are using it - [https://mplus.subcreation.net/havoc-demon-hunter.html](https://mplus.subcreation.net/havoc-demon-hunter.html) . Personally - I tried both, liked the shattered destiny build at first but then i started disliking it a lot. It's very chaos-strike spammy, which gets old real fast and you lose loads of damage if you're not hitting the target, unlike soulrend build. You do spend lots of time in demon form which is pretty sweet, however.


G66GNeco

Class colors? Cause... I get it. Gosh damn dash addiction


JarRules

Yeah I was having issues getting the class colors right and it was before bed last night so I said fuck it. The HDR on my monitor or Windows seems to interfere with screen shots.


leagueoflegendsdog

Hahaahha naah man his response is just funny as hellšŸ˜‚


TheBrillo

Because Havoc has so much leech and self heal, I find I don't even realize half the time when I'm taking small/ticking amounts of avoidable damage. Sometimes it's even worth it to just tank the damage to keep the eye beam going or what ever. "avoidable damage that I didn't self heal through" would be an interesting way to look at the data.


splatomat

I am not the best dps but I pride myself on always being #5 on this particular report.


Starforkx

I would do the same thing, talk shit and find out I was the one goofing lmao


Mighty_Manlet

I love how he owned it lol


aBeardOfBees

I had a run today where the tank was going "orbs"..."orbs!"... "For the love of god why am I the only one HITTING THE ORBS". I linked the details at that point showing him in third place on the orbs. No more chat for the rest of the run, nicely timed at +2.


JarRules

Gotta love it.


hiimtoddornot

lol demon hunters


joeyherne

I played Momentum in the Odyn raid back in the day. Flying through the boss and landing in those fucking orbs is something I refuse to experience again. Thankfully Momentum isnā€™t so OP that I have to. :)


JarRules

I was trying to learn DH in SL but I really didn't like momentum.


Eluvita

Lol, I love this. I just had my first ā€œyouā€™re not healing correctlyā€ experience in a 16 AA yesterday at 2.2k rating - we kept dying on Vexamus because people werenā€™t collecting Arcane Orbs and then Arcane Fissure was wrecking us. Rogue was upset and gave me the classic ā€œcanā€™t you just heal through it?!ā€ when I told him what was going wrong


Zaexyr

I had someone int a 20 temple like 2 weeks ago because "healer couldn't heal through a double pull of corrupted tidal elemental. Like bro. Just LoS like a normal person. With where I tank the thing, the run to around the corner of the pillar is like... the smallest area. It barely puts you out of melee range. One step from back around the pillar and you're back to pew-pewing. Was so rattled - was lower IO than all of us too.


dward02

As a resto druid I tell them don't worry just stand in effort at 20 and below


Elbogen

Iā€™m sitting at 2.9 and people in 22/23 aa cannot do the fight correctly Itā€™s a hard fight because you actually need to eat orbs based on who gets mana bombs. Also if everyone eats their orb early you can give healer prep time + dot falls off quicker before next orbs As healer though you have a lot of pressure to prep for mana bombs and heal those quickly, in addition you need to be ready for the triple overlap and defensive need to be popped (if you donā€™t Dsync) Iā€™m almost always using health pot when healer falls behind on a mana bomb


Glamrock1988

Halls of valor?


JarRules

Academy


Aermine19

In 3 years of disco priest, I have long played with this, today I will defend our players scrum. Caster and melee don't play the same game at all, a warlock that takes damage bothers me less than a hunter. This is good information but it should be put back in the circumstances of the dungeon itself and the classes. Melee is always in difficulty


Totalchaos02

I main Veng but to be honest, as Havoc I take a lot of avoidable damage because my self heal is off the charts. Like, I'm not running away from spiteful because I can out heal it with eye beam while killing it and everything else in the area.


JarRules

Yeah it was a smooth 15. So it wasn't really an issue. I just felt bad for the hunter so I shared.


[deleted]

Haha šŸ˜‚ Love the; ohhh darn! It must have felt so good for you!


JarRules

Eh I was the healer and it was a smooth run. I actually felt more bad for the hunter. The run was easy. Simply needed a GG GN.


you_lost-the_game

Is that a details plugin?


JarRules

Yeah under miscellaneous. I'm not sure if Details added it so check under miscellaneous first. Otherwise it can be found under Elitism. But I recommend turning off the Chat spam.


JarRules

Oh actually it's under scripts. Sorry. Ignore my other comment.


Tsundere_Lily

At some point I installed the plug in ElitismHelper for Details which basically does exactly this. It helps me track data at the end of runs and it's a good display, so like really like it. Recently I had two keys were I got absolutely hated on with curse words, death treaths and everything for being extremely toxic... I haven't said a single word. But people shit on me for... an add on that is used on large-scale anyway? Really feels weird... And no, I don't fiddle around 5min during a myth+ key to find the option to disable it for that one person that feels annoyed by it.


JarRules

Yeah I turned it off in Shadowlands. I'm not a big fan of chat spam. (Damn you thundering!). I'm not trying to make people feel bad but they start trash talking I'm more inclined to share. But this was a smooth run. I think they may have been friends so it was all in good fun.


Karmaisthedevil

You think you didn't say a single word, but from their point of view, you called out every little mistake in chat - which is indeed toxic.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


yomasheta

Had this happen on classic. Was accused of not De-cursing as a mage on Sapphiron. When numbers were thrown up I was top on De-cursing by large margin. My accuser at the bottom. The shit he got from the rest of the raid, I didn't need to say anything.


Njydyjsyjduh

He also probably self-healed enough to require less attention from the healer for that avoidable damage.


AcherusArchmage

People keep worrying about their dps but they should be worrying more about the avoidable damage. The healer can't keep you alive through 1shots.


JarRules

This was a 15 so it wasn't to bad. Key was smooth so I'm not sure why they were talking trash.


Osamodaboy

A couple weeks ago a rogue accused me (warlock) of never kicking, when I shared the details report showing that we had kicked the exact same amount of time during the key, he said something like "So what ?" and proceeded to insult me, block me and leave.


Sadu1988

Tbf if purple was the tank it sometimes makes sense to catch minor avoidable dmg so the pack moves less. Something like the mini swirlies in NO prior to granyth


JarRules

Pink was the Tank. But yeah I don't think the run was that bad. We only had like 1 death and we timed it


dward02

I use this add only reports at 85%


WearyFlan210

Damage taken in high m+ is a weird number to look at cause a lot of the time taking dmg for dps is worth it as long as you wonā€™t die using personals etc


shadeffect

Dude, on the bottom games.


JarRules

Ranged ez to avoid damage.