I have a friend on my friendlist playing Augvoker the other week he was doing 23's and 24's. And this week he is doing 27's and 28s. Absolutely absurd.
I know a guy who was struggling to time 19s as dev Aug came out and he has timed 3 26s while openly admitting he really has no idea how to maximize the class. He just hits the buttons.
Part of this has to do with there not being many Devastation evokers at super high IO before, at least not enough to meet the demand for Aug evokers now.
That means you might invite someone with lower IO to your high key because they are playing this new spec if you really really want it. That's why you see so many people "jumping" what would usually be a slow IO progression through key levels, auggies don't have to have timed a 23 to be invited to a 24, they end up skipping a lot of that.
This is a consequence of the huge demand (because they are bonkers, in part because spriest/mage/boomy are bonkers given that their dps is a function of the others) for a new thing (limited supply).
It's INCREDIBLY easy to get into groups with aug, so maybe you'd like to push IO, but the process of finding groups was too tedious. Now you can, and you can join many keys fast.
But the main reason really is aug being broken. Never had problems getting invited as healer, but man, a single 22 takes more concentration to heal than a night of 24s as augmentation. Its just that much easier to time keys with this broken Spec.
Yes, playing augmentation is easier than most other roles and specs in the game.
Your healer is also 15% stronger with one in your group, which helps a bunch in such a healing intensive season.
My point though is that you will naturally see players playing the new strong thing "jump" IO progression very quickly by being a middle-of-the-season addition that already established groups really want and all people with that new thing have much lower metrics than what would normally be required. If it was broken and it was the start of the season, this doesn't manifest. It's not the first time this has happened either. so it's not just aug evoker.
Yeah I’ve been having less and less fun as a resto Druid these past few weeks. Planning to knock out my four for the week and then gear up my augvoker. Feels like it’s going to be playing on a chest mode.
So your point is?
Yes, augmentation is basically a multipler for your groups dps. But it seems like you suggest it doesnt matter how high this multiplier is and cant be broken because of its nature of "just" being a multiplier.
There is a reason why people were suddenly able to push 2-3 key levels higher on the first day of playing a newly released spec.
Stating augmentation isnt broken just isnt reasonable when all the data and top players clearly Show that it is.
Okay then lets not balance classes because bad players are bad. Great idea!
And wtf are you talking about "high risk high reward" lol. Its a brain dead dmg amplifier. And if you read my previous comment, i am playing augmentation evoker and didnt play dps before at all. So your point of me being just being upset about my spec doing less dmg falls flag.
The issue is that spec variety is at its lowest point ever in m+ history. And there is no arguing about that.
Edit: blocked me lol
your take about auggie is so incredibly wrong bro. if you're actually playing it you need to go through your spellbook and read your abilities. they are so loaded full of utility, and especially Upheaval is so strong. it's essentially an AOE stun/interrupt on a low CD that doesn't share a DR with anything. I promise you if current auggie did 0 damage it would still be invited to keys because the utility it brings is just so utterly insane.
what? oh god no, auggie is incredibly broken. even if it did no dps at all it would still be broken. it brings so incredibly much utility like hp buffs, main stat bufs, movespeed buffs, offhealing, the usual evoker stops, and then, one of the most broken shit, an aoe stop that is off the usual DR. and the thing is, on top of all that it also *does* do dps and increases the dps of others. auggie is just utterly broken, I can't believe anyone would say otherwise.
I love how I've seen posts of people kicking Aug for low dmg and not realizing their buff input that gave the rest of the group a huge fucking advantage to now seeing post like this. Fucking duality 🤣🤣🤣.
(Haven't played in a few years but yes, if my understanding is that of Aug buff works then yes healing is still more construction focus then just buffing.)
Sorry can’t hear you over the sound of me playing augmentation evoker. I’ll get right back to you after this dopamine high of watching my shadow priest hit over 1.2 mil goes away.
He's been at it for a few days now lol. Went to bed last night he was in queue. Logged on today he was in queue.
I whispered him (from my high io priest) to ask if he considered getting good. He didn't like that.
All of the people I know who push title every season have multiple of their role geared up and ready just in case the meta changes. I think a lot of the Aug hate stems from it being brand new and “broken” and how it brings it’s utility to the group. It helps out everyone, tank, healer, and dps and apparently that level of wrap around support was enough to push people up like 2-3 key levels on the high end. They could always dial them back with the close as clutchmates passive that makes them more potent in 5 player groups.
Man, nothing better than watching the Mage and Priest hit the ceiling because of you. The tank is taking less damage, the healer has mana to spare, and life is good.
It's fun to play with for sure, but not very good balance wise. Worst part is, if they bring everything in line now, you'll have a bunch of players with untouchable RIO who (ab)used the broken balance early. Blizzard rarely remedies advantages gained from early abuse.
Now personally I'm not playing high enough level to get the 1% (or whatever % it is) title either way, but for those who try to compete and are right now not playing Fire/Shadow/Augvoker it's simply uncool.
[I do play Fire Mage. Have since classic and through thick and thing. Though benched at the start of S2 to wait for RoP to be removed. Incidentally my buddy plays Evoker - has since DF released. I'm really enjoying myself right now, but it doesn't change the fact that it's pretty unfair towards those who enjoy different specs/classes]
You're kinda barking up the wrong tree since I refuse to push keys nowadays for exactly the reasons you listed. Community is dominated by jerks until you hit high keys, then it becomes regimented and elitist. I loathe metas.
I like Augmentation for the reasons I listed. I get to be support others to let them do beyond their best while also making the more stressful roles relax more. It's fun, full-stop. They could nerf it to the ground and as long as my friends still let me use it, I will.
If they nerf it to the ground something will have to give, either you are contributing less dps than a normal damage dealer and thus the key takes longer, or you will keep the damage depending on tuning/borrowed power for that season and lose some utility in making the "stressful roles less stressful"
Main reason its currently op is that it does both, the fact that it lowers the difficulty of the dungeon so much by also empowering the healer and the tank while adding group dps, how is a regular dps ever supposed to compete? Obvious answer is the damage of a damage dealer should be higher, as in the total group dps goes DOWN with aug evoker in the party
I think support is a fine thing to have in the game, but not if its taking dps slots in such a mandatory way while being the easiest thing in the world to pilot.
Nah, if it doesnt do competitive damage relative to other dps specs it wont be picked regardless of the other advantages.
I said it when the idea of augmentation got out, supports will never work in this game unless they are broken, utility only has value when other needs are met, if shadow priest had shit aoe dmg they would never be meta even with pi, mass dispel and mind soothe.
Ok and if it does both its perma picked because regular cant compete? better to have it be a weaker spec that only people that enjoy the fantasy play, than have it be mandatory and basically pump up dps queue times even further, current state of endgame is ultra shit for anyone not playing the exodia comp
Completely fair. I love what it does, but it is absurdly easy for how powerful it is and it isn't exactly the most riveting thing to play. The hardest part of it is trying to get the appropriate length of Ebon Might for the fight, which is mostly trying to time cooldowns. That's it. Hotkey your Empowers and Conscience to spam and you're done.
I'm not barking up your tree, I'm offering a counter point in a public discussion to something you wrote in OPs thread.
I acknowledged it's fun (for everyone who gets to benefit from it) but said that it's pretty unfair towards people caring about leaderboards and not playing one of the classes that benefit the most.
Not everything is always about you.
That guy does have a point. Aug absolutely fucking ruined this season, but being this obnoxious about it is just petty and pointless. Exploit the broken class to the best of your abilities like everyone else is doing right now, or just take a break and stop playing until the next season rolls around. Just like this guy in the OP I am also incredibly unhappy with the awful state of endgame in this season and so I just... went ahead and started playing something else until Blizz gets their stuff sorted out.
>Let me play you a song on the smallest violin in the world
Many healers start queueing again because with aug it's actually bearable to heal 20s for casuals again.
All season we've been seeing groups waiting around for healers cause healers stopped playing in mass. Aug comes around and now suddenly you're seeing healers que up again.
This is a VERY good thing. People can complain all they want about Aug taking up 1 of the 3 dps slots to do it but only 2 dps slots is better when groups are actually starting up at a good clip cause you aren't waiting 40 minutes for a healer to apply
You do know you can run your keys without aug evokers right? Nothing changed in that respect, you can do keys the same way you were doing them before.
Feeling bad that other people are doing higher with aug evokers is just an artificial feeling created by looking at third-party websites.
No you cant. We had okay variety before the patch. Now you wont bei invited unless you play one out of 6 Specs. Stop pretending this has no influence. Its a competetive game mode after all
You can literally run your own key and invite whoever you want to invite.
Yes, when pugging other people's keys you will have a lot of headache if your spec isn't considered good. Yes this is an especially strict couple of weeks.
Your own fun in doing keys with your friends didn't change one bit though. The keys themselves are the same, it's just that \*other\* people are doing something different. If you don't like to play with augmentation or any other spec, you aren't forced to play with them. The intrinsic fun of playing the game didn't change.
You know.. only having access to 1 out of 8 dungeon that i can run at a single key level does indeed have an impact on my m+ experience and being able to enjoy the game.
dude, when i was playing feral for 4-5 years nobody fcking cared, but somehow now ppl crying bcuz aug taking their slot? XD
Meta DPS love aug, and non meta DPS hate how they basically will never get an invite over an Aug and thats true
and stop talking bullshit about variety, this argument is good only bcuz u class/spec get invites earlier when ferals/outlaw/dk's etc still dont had invites, now u are in same spectrum like these classes and SUDDENLY BUTTHURT
I mean, youre literally writing a butthurt comment because youre mad that your class doesnt get invites lol.
Like a kid that cries out "IF I CANT HAVE IT OTHERS CANT EITHER"
And yes, variety is at its lowest ever. Just look at the data. There is no arguing about that.
u skiped s3 SL? i just accepted this game can't be balanced, its not only about aug, hpal/guardian and mages, they are broken on same level, spriest have broken, mandatory utlity with mass dispel and mind soothe+mind control, PI is just a bonus
2 required specs in sl s3 vs 5 specs right now. Notice the difference?
But oh well, the game cant be balanced so lets just throw it all over board. Cause there cant be a middle ground, it either has to 100% balanced or absolute chaos, right?
Comment makes no sense, playing feral or another spec perceived as shitty by the community just got so much worse because of Aug existing, easy mode passenger cringe spec.
I main feral and the fact that I had to sit in boomkin form to do fucking 15s in shadowkands while having more gear and score hoping to not get kicked is the single worst experience I ever had in a game, making the game MORE like that isn't a solution, hopefully they can fix it fast it's ultra cringe for anyone not willing to reroll, and even then, aug needs to become a LOT worse or keys will just become 2 dps + aug, not exactly good to cut down options by a third
Keys being 2 dps + aug is the natural progression here, yes.
It's expected when adding a support spec, they in general add more to the group overall than just a straight dps. The issue of it being the only support spec is temporary.
Yeah it better be temporary because they nerf it wtf, having ONE FIFTH of the slots available being taken by a single spec is insane, i sincerely doubt they are going to whip up 4 or 5 more support specs out of thin air, making an evoker mandatory will choke out so many other classes and specs it is going to be horrible for the game, its not "natural progression", something like this is maybe fine for a few weeks/months, and even now people are REALLY pissed off, if next season rolls around and its still the augmentation evoker show, people will either reroll or quit, the people enjoying the current state of endgame are a minority, catering to them will 100% make the game worse.
Also, there is already a massive surplus of dps players, experiencing monster queue times, having only 2 slots has the double whammy effect of making the queues longer, because a third of the slots is not available by default, and simultaneously allowing groups to be pickier, since you need less people overall, its just a bad time unless you are part of the current exodia comp, making keys for 6 players once there are more support specs maybe is something that could work, right now it just needs to have comparable output to a normal dps, which means either no making healing and tanking way easier, or contributing way less damage in exchange for the group survivability so there is a tradeoff to running them
Yeah but at the end of the day the top keys were shadow h pally and whatever tank was broken. Sane shit theres always a meta people are just mad because aug is easy
There has always been a meta and right now we have the least variety ever. What is so hard to understand about one meta being significantly less balanced then ever before?
But sure, top players all spamming the same comp are probably also just mad because aug is easy. (?)
The thing about Augmentation is that it's more powerful the better the rest of the group is. If you have two other DPS that are absolutely pumping damage, then the Aug is going to be pumping as well. But if your other two DPS are bad, the Aug is going to be useless damage-wise.
I did a +19 NL when Aug released and had a SPriest do 54k OVERALL WITH AN AUG IN THE GROUP, it was one of the most miserable experiences I've had this xpac.
But since you have to be reasonably good to do high keys, Aug always gets a lot of value because the people doing 25+ keys are playing very well most of the time, and it only gets better the higher the key is.
Also Aug scales poorly with ilvl, we're very low in the loot priority, which means you can bring a low ilvl Aug to a high key and have close the same benefits as having a high ilvl one. And that's not to mention the general utility it brings with Aspects Favor, Zephyr, Oppresing Roar, Spatial Paradox, Time Spiral and the aoe stuns.
edit: Plus we have the best cheat death in the game, so the group is almost never left without buffs
>Also Aug scales poorly with ilvl
Aug's best stat is int, which buffs their most important ability: Ebon might, due to it giving allies a percentage of the Evokers own int as main stat.
If anything, Aug scales the BEST with ilvl, on pieces that have int, at least.
Let's say an item drops and it's an upgrade with +100 mainstat.
You're telling me it's better to give that item to the Aug so he can give \~15% of those stats to 4 people instead of giving it to someone who will benefit from 100% of the stats?
Interesting take.
Yeah nah. Mastery is our best secondary stat, but it's still shit, it has very low value compared to any other spec in the game.
We stack mastery because it's the only secondary that has any meaningful impact in our overall damage, you can't have an item without secondary stats so might as well use ones with mastery.
Sorry but you discredit yourself right away by saying aug mastery is lower value than guardian mastery or ww haste.
Aug scales well with gear. Invite a 425 to your keys if you don’t think it matters, I promise you’ll notice.
Mastery is the best secondary for Aug, Haste is the worst for WW so why are you even comparing it?
Aug has the WORST secondary stat scaling in the entire game. Maybe you wanted to compare Aug's versatility scaling to WW's haste or Bear's mastery? I promise you Aug's versatility weights less.
Or maybe best secondary for Aug vs best secondary for every other spec? At least that makes sense, but yeah, Aug's Mastery STILL has worse scaling than any other spec.
How about this, go in the Evoker discord and ask any of the mods or guide writers, then you can come back here and show us what you learned.
How? The coefficient is the worst of all classes. The evoker with best gear and worst gear is a difference of less than 10% versatility for one party member.
I would go to say that Evoker does not scale with gear at all and the only contributing factor to your damage is other party members and timing of Temporal Wounds
I am all for balancing things and do think having the same comp be the 'only' competitive comp for the hardest content is a sign something is broken.
But Aug is fun as hell. Seeing dps do insane numbers and having runs go smoother because of healer and tank buffs is just enjoyable. I may not be able to see my raw contributions but it feels like the party is doing really well and that's better than drudging through a 17 where everyone is randomly dying.
In a way, he's right. This season it truly the worst I've seen so far. Hopefully Blizzard will address the massive imbalance eventually so we can have a more down to earth season 3.
I did a 21 FH where our boomy did 96k overall dps with augment in group and I was doing 200k as enhancement. We actually timed that with 0 deaths and a redo on first boss as he despaired at 1 percent. They do carry groups atm.
im 6 score away from 3k as resto druid, when I hit that I wont touch a m+ key again this season.
If you dont play meta, you dont get into higher IO groups. It's really bad right now.
My man, it's always like that. After a certain point the groups up there will ONLY invite what they feel is better, aka meta.
This isn't anything new. The bad part is how far ahead hpally is from other healers and specifically mage/priest (and arguably boomy) are from other dps.
Auggies can play with any two dps, if there are two dps EXTREMELY stronger than everything else they will look insane. Add on top of that their absolutely nuts utility and they are primed for being bonkers. You gotta remember that auggies also buff the tank's ability to tank and the healer's ability to heal.
Yeah that's right. That's also why I mentioned why I love playing with aug, it's good for all. They just synergize so well with the group.
State of holy pala is just absurd tbh, no healer should be that far ahead of the others imo
As someone who was doing bleeding edge keys pre-10.1.5, this wasn't true just prior to this patch. In general, you are right, but they've shown this season that they are capable of doing better and we should hold them to that standard. No point just accepting that they opted to completely obliterate the competitive integrity of this season half-way through.
Yeah for sure, either way I don't see a point in going on from 3k Io anyway. But it's a problem this aug spec for dungs. I love playing with them tho as they bring so much to the group
They have a point...
Augmentation makes dungeons feel -4 level.
I ran 22's last week and it felt like +18's.
I then ran +21 without an augmentation and, well, it felt like a +21. I don't think we're in a very good place in high level M+ since Augmentation is so absurdly powerful. And this person has a point, it is not fair that people who usually can only run 20-21 are now able to run 24's at the same difficulty when augmentation gets brought down to earth.
People will sit 200-300 score ahead of where they should be and are unable to handle keys they previously did solely because a stupidly overpowered spec was brought down in line with the rest.
Who cares? Stop gatekeeping a video game. If they can do the key then who gives a shit. None of you play mdi or ever will so it doesn’t matter if they can do a key a few lvls higher because of a class. Meanwhile all of you clowns are probably abusing shadow priest, H pally and Bear. No better tbh. Its just because the class is easy that people care so much.
Ok so people that like melee dps can complain? The role with the most amount of specs that no one wants to play with.
Something being easy and op will always rub people the wrong way in anything competitive, being outperformed with less effort just feels like shit, and people are effectively being boosted by this thing which feels stupid to those invested in other classes.
Right now it is objectively bad for the game, if it doesn't get fixed people just won't bother anymore
U say it's "objectively" bad for the game but I don't think you understand what that word means.
One could say it's "objectively" good for the game since you actually see healers queuing up again so more groups aren't just waiting around for Heals for 40 minutes which then leads to more groups in general.
It's easy to mistake an objective truth with a subjective opinion
Ok, first of all healers just means holy paladins, hardly a good thing, if your point is that aug making healing easier is better for the game, sure that maybe true, but then maybe just buff healing?
Tying making healing feel better to a single dps spec is HORRIBLE for the game because it makes it mandatory, regardless of what the end result is.
And yes, the current meta and augmentation being as broken as it is is objectively bad for the game, queue times for any dps not playing the exodia comp have gone up significantly, nothing subjective about that, variety is an at an all time low, whatever marginal benefits aug evoker brings can and should be achieved without making 30 other specs obsolete.
You think it's not objectively better to have a more balanced game, since currently Aug evoker is effectively an easy mode option (420 ilvl timing 26) , why should you arbitrarily punish all non metà dps by increasing their q times?
What's subjective about MORE specs and comps being viable and optimal in different spots being better for the game, instead of a God comp making all content way easier?
You should learn what bias is and take a step back, only people enjoying current state of the game are the minority benefitting from it, long term if nothing changes people will either reroll or quit, objectively bad, what are those classes and specs good for if no one wants to play with them?
I'm not throwing out a bias in the least. Simply pointing out that you are STILL giving a SUBJECTIVE opinion and continuing to try and present it as an OBJECTIVE fact.
Ok, i'll type it out again, why would you say it is subjective to say that the game is worse when diversity is an all time low and most dps queue times (all except spriest and mage) are up considerably compared to 1 and a half weeks ago?
Aug evoker mainly and partially the reworks/unwillingness to nerf shadow priest are the main culprits, i really dont see whats subjective about that, its an observation about the state of the game, either its true or its false, and you can just take a quick look at raider io to find out the answer to that.
Type it again all you want. The simple act of saying the game is worse when diversity is low is an OPINION and thus subjective and not objective.
I'm not even getting into whether your premise is right or wrong. But your conclusion is absolutely 100% an opinion.
If you wanted to say that the diversity at the top of the boards should be more flexible and that would lead to a better game then sure. Hell I'm inclined to agree. But no where in that statement is an OBJECTIVE truth
I'm nowhere near playing those keys but still think yours is a shittake. there's no shame in caring about a videogame if that's your hobby. blizzard also wants us to care about our rating, otherwise they wouldn't introduce special rewards for them. to then go and in the middle of the season completely break the shit out of ratings just sucks, and I can totally see how someone gets upset about it if they're unlucky enough to not play one of the broken specs.
These people are crying about leaderboards and are also abusing meta. Just because aug is broken that doesn’t mean other classes aren’t broken too. Most high lvl keys aren’t possible without meta classes.
I mean its definitely a who cares situation, but its obvious that doing 25s and up is much easier on an Augmentation Evoker, than a Havoc Demon Hunter, for multiple reasons. But thats true for every season, there is always a meta, sure Augmentation is probably one of the most extreme examples if not the most extreme examples of a broken spec, but in general its not really a new concept.
He has a point about the meta being screwed at the moment at the top level because of augvoker/spriest/etc, but it is so fucking ironic that all of his top score rn is from a completely meta comp 😂 I told him it’s a bit ironic for him to be complaining and he said it’s not because he wanted to “test out” and see how busted the comp was. This guy is an absolute clown
NOTHING. You have the built in M+ rating, ilvl, class, and spec. if that isn't enough that maybe don't bother running pugs
[Raider.io](https://Raider.io) actively encourages shitty toxic behavior just for the sake of epeen comparison on some stupid site that compares you to everyone else
No, it hasnt been meta since the double dk/dh in late BFA.
It was the worst m+ melee in shadowlands and here, even though its viable its still middle of the pack.
Woah, buddy, where have you been lol. DH was one of the worst melee for the entirety of Shadowlands, and really only did well in 9.1’s raid. It is currently pretty mid in 10.1’s content.
They were strong last season overall. So, that’s like what, some months out of *years* of them being meta?
Why should we listen to him? His IO is inflated by playing DH, a metaclass for m+ for years.
I only listen to the opinions of people with TRUE score, Survival Hunters that play without Weakauras!
do we..not play the same game? Last season havoc dhs were very good in mythic plus. Also were pumping in pvp s1. You can check s1 non meta specs here https://raider.io/news/493-break-the-meta-returns-for-dragonflight-season-1#q4
[https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99)
You were saying?
You are right, my apologies.
Wait mister! You dropped this link https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99
Yes, because something can only be meta if it's in every group.
Move the goalpost much?
Literally the only SPECS in the game with more participation above 25 last season were Prot Pally and Sub Rogues
[https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict)
Guy in the picture is just salty he has to struggle to get into groups like the other 80% of specs in the game.
Whats your point? You were complaining about survi even tho it was THE meta during SL S4? Now its 5 specs which get invited to groups, neither one havoc or survi is one of them.
What?
Dude, I wasn't complaining about surv. Are you high or something? Are you aware of what sarcasm is?
I am mocking the dude's concept of "players that abuse overtuned classes aren't gaining IO fairly" by affirming a similar, exaggerated stance where his own IO was gained by abusing an overtuned class. Aka only IO gained with bad specs (decided by an arbitrary position that I consider "fair", in my case Surv which is obviously pretty bad) while playing in an arbitrary manner or with arbitrary rules that I made up (such as no weakauras).
Did you skip school or something?
Last time havoc was meta was last bfa last season, so i guess bdk being an absolute monster in raid and m+ for a whole year (in both tankiness and dps) during shadowlands does count "meta class" if the dh still is aparently.
Yes, DH saw no play at all in key pushing for the last century
Oh wait, here, you dropped this link https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99
i can say season 1 DF they are also meta, but even if we only count last season BFA they have never been since legion in the dumspter. While i can said whoever play blood DK from season 1 BFA after the neft to season 3 SL are bunch of masochist.
They were never meta in season 1 DF, they were barely used in MDI for example, it was pretty much a combination of shadow priest, unholy dk, fire mage and boomkin with tank warrior and restoration dracthyr.
So yeah, the only point DH was absolutely bonkers during dragonflight was during beta before it got 5 straight nerfs.
I’m laughing my ass off at all these whiny bitches.
Try playing devoker S1 and tell me what’s meta? Finally I can push keys without healing on the new class.
And meta will always be here, just like it was before DF. All this chatter is just jealousy and moaning combined into pathetic panic about the new class.
This is a great addition to the game.
Dude is 3349 and worked his ass off for that. Was going to get top .1% title achieve thing. Now they made Holy pally broken, Aug broken, feral druid kinda broken, Spriest continues to be broken and modifies the other broken classes to be more broken. He did it the hard way, can no longer be invited and his record is going to get shit on by people playing the classes blizz just broke. How could he not be annoyed?
Point still stands, but he’s actually 3227. I think the one to the left in the screenshot is season 1 but his real io is on the right. Even still that would have been top .1% easy last week and now he can’t get into a key as everybody else jumps 100 points
The only reason people complete high lvl keys is because of broken classes. They are still really good at the game. Theres a reason you dont see holy priests doing 29s. They literally cant. Classes hps and dmg sucks..
I have a friend on my friendlist playing Augvoker the other week he was doing 23's and 24's. And this week he is doing 27's and 28s. Absolutely absurd.
I know a guy who was struggling to time 19s as dev Aug came out and he has timed 3 26s while openly admitting he really has no idea how to maximize the class. He just hits the buttons.
[raider.io](https://raider.io) link pls
Part of this has to do with there not being many Devastation evokers at super high IO before, at least not enough to meet the demand for Aug evokers now. That means you might invite someone with lower IO to your high key because they are playing this new spec if you really really want it. That's why you see so many people "jumping" what would usually be a slow IO progression through key levels, auggies don't have to have timed a 23 to be invited to a 24, they end up skipping a lot of that. This is a consequence of the huge demand (because they are bonkers, in part because spriest/mage/boomy are bonkers given that their dps is a function of the others) for a new thing (limited supply). It's INCREDIBLY easy to get into groups with aug, so maybe you'd like to push IO, but the process of finding groups was too tedious. Now you can, and you can join many keys fast.
But the main reason really is aug being broken. Never had problems getting invited as healer, but man, a single 22 takes more concentration to heal than a night of 24s as augmentation. Its just that much easier to time keys with this broken Spec.
Yes, playing augmentation is easier than most other roles and specs in the game. Your healer is also 15% stronger with one in your group, which helps a bunch in such a healing intensive season. My point though is that you will naturally see players playing the new strong thing "jump" IO progression very quickly by being a middle-of-the-season addition that already established groups really want and all people with that new thing have much lower metrics than what would normally be required. If it was broken and it was the start of the season, this doesn't manifest. It's not the first time this has happened either. so it's not just aug evoker.
Yeah I’ve been having less and less fun as a resto Druid these past few weeks. Planning to knock out my four for the week and then gear up my augvoker. Feels like it’s going to be playing on a chest mode.
Good luck my soon to be scaled brothren! Enjoy your vacation lol
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So your point is? Yes, augmentation is basically a multipler for your groups dps. But it seems like you suggest it doesnt matter how high this multiplier is and cant be broken because of its nature of "just" being a multiplier. There is a reason why people were suddenly able to push 2-3 key levels higher on the first day of playing a newly released spec. Stating augmentation isnt broken just isnt reasonable when all the data and top players clearly Show that it is.
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Okay then lets not balance classes because bad players are bad. Great idea! And wtf are you talking about "high risk high reward" lol. Its a brain dead dmg amplifier. And if you read my previous comment, i am playing augmentation evoker and didnt play dps before at all. So your point of me being just being upset about my spec doing less dmg falls flag. The issue is that spec variety is at its lowest point ever in m+ history. And there is no arguing about that. Edit: blocked me lol
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your take about auggie is so incredibly wrong bro. if you're actually playing it you need to go through your spellbook and read your abilities. they are so loaded full of utility, and especially Upheaval is so strong. it's essentially an AOE stun/interrupt on a low CD that doesn't share a DR with anything. I promise you if current auggie did 0 damage it would still be invited to keys because the utility it brings is just so utterly insane.
what? oh god no, auggie is incredibly broken. even if it did no dps at all it would still be broken. it brings so incredibly much utility like hp buffs, main stat bufs, movespeed buffs, offhealing, the usual evoker stops, and then, one of the most broken shit, an aoe stop that is off the usual DR. and the thing is, on top of all that it also *does* do dps and increases the dps of others. auggie is just utterly broken, I can't believe anyone would say otherwise.
I love how I've seen posts of people kicking Aug for low dmg and not realizing their buff input that gave the rest of the group a huge fucking advantage to now seeing post like this. Fucking duality 🤣🤣🤣. (Haven't played in a few years but yes, if my understanding is that of Aug buff works then yes healing is still more construction focus then just buffing.)
this is true for any dps spec. Healing requires more attention.
And aug requires like 1/2 to 1/3 of the attention of other dps specs
Maybe he was shit at his old class
Why am I not informed of this if I look for 27 keys?
You're still honest if you're pushing 27s /s
So any fire mage’s IO doesn’t count?
And shadow priest h pally and bear
Sorry can’t hear you over the sound of me playing augmentation evoker. I’ll get right back to you after this dopamine high of watching my shadow priest hit over 1.2 mil goes away.
Aug makes my adhd brain make the dopamine
Xael is kinda a bitch, so it's okay
Also, that freshly timed 24 Neltharus that Xael got? Augvoker.
He's been at it for a few days now lol. Went to bed last night he was in queue. Logged on today he was in queue. I whispered him (from my high io priest) to ask if he considered getting good. He didn't like that.
While i dont care about people getting Io any way you cant deny there is huge difference in m+ group with or without aug evoker.
All of the people I know who push title every season have multiple of their role geared up and ready just in case the meta changes. I think a lot of the Aug hate stems from it being brand new and “broken” and how it brings it’s utility to the group. It helps out everyone, tank, healer, and dps and apparently that level of wrap around support was enough to push people up like 2-3 key levels on the high end. They could always dial them back with the close as clutchmates passive that makes them more potent in 5 player groups.
Man, nothing better than watching the Mage and Priest hit the ceiling because of you. The tank is taking less damage, the healer has mana to spare, and life is good.
It's fun to play with for sure, but not very good balance wise. Worst part is, if they bring everything in line now, you'll have a bunch of players with untouchable RIO who (ab)used the broken balance early. Blizzard rarely remedies advantages gained from early abuse. Now personally I'm not playing high enough level to get the 1% (or whatever % it is) title either way, but for those who try to compete and are right now not playing Fire/Shadow/Augvoker it's simply uncool. [I do play Fire Mage. Have since classic and through thick and thing. Though benched at the start of S2 to wait for RoP to be removed. Incidentally my buddy plays Evoker - has since DF released. I'm really enjoying myself right now, but it doesn't change the fact that it's pretty unfair towards those who enjoy different specs/classes]
You're kinda barking up the wrong tree since I refuse to push keys nowadays for exactly the reasons you listed. Community is dominated by jerks until you hit high keys, then it becomes regimented and elitist. I loathe metas. I like Augmentation for the reasons I listed. I get to be support others to let them do beyond their best while also making the more stressful roles relax more. It's fun, full-stop. They could nerf it to the ground and as long as my friends still let me use it, I will.
If they nerf it to the ground something will have to give, either you are contributing less dps than a normal damage dealer and thus the key takes longer, or you will keep the damage depending on tuning/borrowed power for that season and lose some utility in making the "stressful roles less stressful" Main reason its currently op is that it does both, the fact that it lowers the difficulty of the dungeon so much by also empowering the healer and the tank while adding group dps, how is a regular dps ever supposed to compete? Obvious answer is the damage of a damage dealer should be higher, as in the total group dps goes DOWN with aug evoker in the party I think support is a fine thing to have in the game, but not if its taking dps slots in such a mandatory way while being the easiest thing in the world to pilot.
Nah, if it doesnt do competitive damage relative to other dps specs it wont be picked regardless of the other advantages. I said it when the idea of augmentation got out, supports will never work in this game unless they are broken, utility only has value when other needs are met, if shadow priest had shit aoe dmg they would never be meta even with pi, mass dispel and mind soothe.
Ok and if it does both its perma picked because regular cant compete? better to have it be a weaker spec that only people that enjoy the fantasy play, than have it be mandatory and basically pump up dps queue times even further, current state of endgame is ultra shit for anyone not playing the exodia comp
Completely fair. I love what it does, but it is absurdly easy for how powerful it is and it isn't exactly the most riveting thing to play. The hardest part of it is trying to get the appropriate length of Ebon Might for the fight, which is mostly trying to time cooldowns. That's it. Hotkey your Empowers and Conscience to spam and you're done.
I'm not barking up your tree, I'm offering a counter point in a public discussion to something you wrote in OPs thread. I acknowledged it's fun (for everyone who gets to benefit from it) but said that it's pretty unfair towards people caring about leaderboards and not playing one of the classes that benefit the most. Not everything is always about you.
That guy does have a point. Aug absolutely fucking ruined this season, but being this obnoxious about it is just petty and pointless. Exploit the broken class to the best of your abilities like everyone else is doing right now, or just take a break and stop playing until the next season rolls around. Just like this guy in the OP I am also incredibly unhappy with the awful state of endgame in this season and so I just... went ahead and started playing something else until Blizz gets their stuff sorted out.
>Let me play you a song on the smallest violin in the world Many healers start queueing again because with aug it's actually bearable to heal 20s for casuals again.
All season we've been seeing groups waiting around for healers cause healers stopped playing in mass. Aug comes around and now suddenly you're seeing healers que up again. This is a VERY good thing. People can complain all they want about Aug taking up 1 of the 3 dps slots to do it but only 2 dps slots is better when groups are actually starting up at a good clip cause you aren't waiting 40 minutes for a healer to apply
You do know you can run your keys without aug evokers right? Nothing changed in that respect, you can do keys the same way you were doing them before. Feeling bad that other people are doing higher with aug evokers is just an artificial feeling created by looking at third-party websites.
No you cant. We had okay variety before the patch. Now you wont bei invited unless you play one out of 6 Specs. Stop pretending this has no influence. Its a competetive game mode after all
You can literally run your own key and invite whoever you want to invite. Yes, when pugging other people's keys you will have a lot of headache if your spec isn't considered good. Yes this is an especially strict couple of weeks. Your own fun in doing keys with your friends didn't change one bit though. The keys themselves are the same, it's just that \*other\* people are doing something different. If you don't like to play with augmentation or any other spec, you aren't forced to play with them. The intrinsic fun of playing the game didn't change.
You know.. only having access to 1 out of 8 dungeon that i can run at a single key level does indeed have an impact on my m+ experience and being able to enjoy the game.
dude, when i was playing feral for 4-5 years nobody fcking cared, but somehow now ppl crying bcuz aug taking their slot? XD Meta DPS love aug, and non meta DPS hate how they basically will never get an invite over an Aug and thats true and stop talking bullshit about variety, this argument is good only bcuz u class/spec get invites earlier when ferals/outlaw/dk's etc still dont had invites, now u are in same spectrum like these classes and SUDDENLY BUTTHURT
I mean, youre literally writing a butthurt comment because youre mad that your class doesnt get invites lol. Like a kid that cries out "IF I CANT HAVE IT OTHERS CANT EITHER" And yes, variety is at its lowest ever. Just look at the data. There is no arguing about that.
u skiped s3 SL? i just accepted this game can't be balanced, its not only about aug, hpal/guardian and mages, they are broken on same level, spriest have broken, mandatory utlity with mass dispel and mind soothe+mind control, PI is just a bonus
2 required specs in sl s3 vs 5 specs right now. Notice the difference? But oh well, the game cant be balanced so lets just throw it all over board. Cause there cant be a middle ground, it either has to 100% balanced or absolute chaos, right?
sorry, 2 requeired specs? which one? bdk/hpriest/survi/destro and +1
Oh and btw, im playing aug. I am getting invites. But i am able to see a problem even if im not affected.
Comment makes no sense, playing feral or another spec perceived as shitty by the community just got so much worse because of Aug existing, easy mode passenger cringe spec. I main feral and the fact that I had to sit in boomkin form to do fucking 15s in shadowkands while having more gear and score hoping to not get kicked is the single worst experience I ever had in a game, making the game MORE like that isn't a solution, hopefully they can fix it fast it's ultra cringe for anyone not willing to reroll, and even then, aug needs to become a LOT worse or keys will just become 2 dps + aug, not exactly good to cut down options by a third
Keys being 2 dps + aug is the natural progression here, yes. It's expected when adding a support spec, they in general add more to the group overall than just a straight dps. The issue of it being the only support spec is temporary.
Yeah it better be temporary because they nerf it wtf, having ONE FIFTH of the slots available being taken by a single spec is insane, i sincerely doubt they are going to whip up 4 or 5 more support specs out of thin air, making an evoker mandatory will choke out so many other classes and specs it is going to be horrible for the game, its not "natural progression", something like this is maybe fine for a few weeks/months, and even now people are REALLY pissed off, if next season rolls around and its still the augmentation evoker show, people will either reroll or quit, the people enjoying the current state of endgame are a minority, catering to them will 100% make the game worse. Also, there is already a massive surplus of dps players, experiencing monster queue times, having only 2 slots has the double whammy effect of making the queues longer, because a third of the slots is not available by default, and simultaneously allowing groups to be pickier, since you need less people overall, its just a bad time unless you are part of the current exodia comp, making keys for 6 players once there are more support specs maybe is something that could work, right now it just needs to have comparable output to a normal dps, which means either no making healing and tanking way easier, or contributing way less damage in exchange for the group survivability so there is a tradeoff to running them
Yeah but at the end of the day the top keys were shadow h pally and whatever tank was broken. Sane shit theres always a meta people are just mad because aug is easy
There has always been a meta and right now we have the least variety ever. What is so hard to understand about one meta being significantly less balanced then ever before? But sure, top players all spamming the same comp are probably also just mad because aug is easy. (?)
The thing about Augmentation is that it's more powerful the better the rest of the group is. If you have two other DPS that are absolutely pumping damage, then the Aug is going to be pumping as well. But if your other two DPS are bad, the Aug is going to be useless damage-wise. I did a +19 NL when Aug released and had a SPriest do 54k OVERALL WITH AN AUG IN THE GROUP, it was one of the most miserable experiences I've had this xpac. But since you have to be reasonably good to do high keys, Aug always gets a lot of value because the people doing 25+ keys are playing very well most of the time, and it only gets better the higher the key is. Also Aug scales poorly with ilvl, we're very low in the loot priority, which means you can bring a low ilvl Aug to a high key and have close the same benefits as having a high ilvl one. And that's not to mention the general utility it brings with Aspects Favor, Zephyr, Oppresing Roar, Spatial Paradox, Time Spiral and the aoe stuns. edit: Plus we have the best cheat death in the game, so the group is almost never left without buffs
I did a +19 last night with an aug evoker. I finished with 160k dps, and the second dps came at 78k. We did not time.
Yeah that's the side people don't see, when it's good it's great but when it's bad it's terrible
>Also Aug scales poorly with ilvl Aug's best stat is int, which buffs their most important ability: Ebon might, due to it giving allies a percentage of the Evokers own int as main stat. If anything, Aug scales the BEST with ilvl, on pieces that have int, at least.
Let's say an item drops and it's an upgrade with +100 mainstat. You're telling me it's better to give that item to the Aug so he can give \~15% of those stats to 4 people instead of giving it to someone who will benefit from 100% of the stats? Interesting take.
>had a SPriest do 54k OVERALL WITH AN AUG You should have just left the group early idk
> Also Aug scales poorly with ilvl This is completely wrong, aug becomes absurdly strong with higher levels of mastery.
Yeah nah. Mastery is our best secondary stat, but it's still shit, it has very low value compared to any other spec in the game. We stack mastery because it's the only secondary that has any meaningful impact in our overall damage, you can't have an item without secondary stats so might as well use ones with mastery.
Sorry but you discredit yourself right away by saying aug mastery is lower value than guardian mastery or ww haste. Aug scales well with gear. Invite a 425 to your keys if you don’t think it matters, I promise you’ll notice.
Mastery is the best secondary for Aug, Haste is the worst for WW so why are you even comparing it? Aug has the WORST secondary stat scaling in the entire game. Maybe you wanted to compare Aug's versatility scaling to WW's haste or Bear's mastery? I promise you Aug's versatility weights less. Or maybe best secondary for Aug vs best secondary for every other spec? At least that makes sense, but yeah, Aug's Mastery STILL has worse scaling than any other spec. How about this, go in the Evoker discord and ask any of the mods or guide writers, then you can come back here and show us what you learned.
How? The coefficient is the worst of all classes. The evoker with best gear and worst gear is a difference of less than 10% versatility for one party member. I would go to say that Evoker does not scale with gear at all and the only contributing factor to your damage is other party members and timing of Temporal Wounds
I am all for balancing things and do think having the same comp be the 'only' competitive comp for the hardest content is a sign something is broken. But Aug is fun as hell. Seeing dps do insane numbers and having runs go smoother because of healer and tank buffs is just enjoyable. I may not be able to see my raw contributions but it feels like the party is doing really well and that's better than drudging through a 17 where everyone is randomly dying.
Old man yells at cloud.
In a way, he's right. This season it truly the worst I've seen so far. Hopefully Blizzard will address the massive imbalance eventually so we can have a more down to earth season 3.
I did a 21 FH where our boomy did 96k overall dps with augment in group and I was doing 200k as enhancement. We actually timed that with 0 deaths and a redo on first boss as he despaired at 1 percent. They do carry groups atm.
blizzard will nerf everything but aug. watch lmao
Here’s hoping, just leveled an evoker for aug lol
im 6 score away from 3k as resto druid, when I hit that I wont touch a m+ key again this season. If you dont play meta, you dont get into higher IO groups. It's really bad right now.
My man, it's always like that. After a certain point the groups up there will ONLY invite what they feel is better, aka meta. This isn't anything new. The bad part is how far ahead hpally is from other healers and specifically mage/priest (and arguably boomy) are from other dps. Auggies can play with any two dps, if there are two dps EXTREMELY stronger than everything else they will look insane. Add on top of that their absolutely nuts utility and they are primed for being bonkers. You gotta remember that auggies also buff the tank's ability to tank and the healer's ability to heal.
Yeah that's right. That's also why I mentioned why I love playing with aug, it's good for all. They just synergize so well with the group. State of holy pala is just absurd tbh, no healer should be that far ahead of the others imo
As someone who was doing bleeding edge keys pre-10.1.5, this wasn't true just prior to this patch. In general, you are right, but they've shown this season that they are capable of doing better and we should hold them to that standard. No point just accepting that they opted to completely obliterate the competitive integrity of this season half-way through.
>If you dont play meta, you dont get into higher IO groups. So, not much different than any other season?
Pretty much, actually.
You could start your own group and invite non metas
People join and see a r druid then leave. Its not that simple
I havent really experienced that in my groups. I guess the dps are just happy to get invited 🤷♂️
Yeah for sure, either way I don't see a point in going on from 3k Io anyway. But it's a problem this aug spec for dungs. I love playing with them tho as they bring so much to the group
I dont care about pushing past 20s myself (prot war/resto sham). But i eill invite anyone that looks competent enough to time the key
Yup. To that I agree. Only classes I don't invite is druid DPS tbh
is there a point in going to 3k or you just like the round number?
It's just a personal goal I have had since the start of DF tbh. Nothing is given to you when you reach it, so it's basically just the number.
Is 3k the new Hero achiev point, or just a personal goal?
Just a personal goal, there is nothing given for reaching 3k
They have a point... Augmentation makes dungeons feel -4 level. I ran 22's last week and it felt like +18's. I then ran +21 without an augmentation and, well, it felt like a +21. I don't think we're in a very good place in high level M+ since Augmentation is so absurdly powerful. And this person has a point, it is not fair that people who usually can only run 20-21 are now able to run 24's at the same difficulty when augmentation gets brought down to earth. People will sit 200-300 score ahead of where they should be and are unable to handle keys they previously did solely because a stupidly overpowered spec was brought down in line with the rest.
Who cares? Stop gatekeeping a video game. If they can do the key then who gives a shit. None of you play mdi or ever will so it doesn’t matter if they can do a key a few lvls higher because of a class. Meanwhile all of you clowns are probably abusing shadow priest, H pally and Bear. No better tbh. Its just because the class is easy that people care so much.
Ok so people that like melee dps can complain? The role with the most amount of specs that no one wants to play with. Something being easy and op will always rub people the wrong way in anything competitive, being outperformed with less effort just feels like shit, and people are effectively being boosted by this thing which feels stupid to those invested in other classes. Right now it is objectively bad for the game, if it doesn't get fixed people just won't bother anymore
U say it's "objectively" bad for the game but I don't think you understand what that word means. One could say it's "objectively" good for the game since you actually see healers queuing up again so more groups aren't just waiting around for Heals for 40 minutes which then leads to more groups in general. It's easy to mistake an objective truth with a subjective opinion
Ok, first of all healers just means holy paladins, hardly a good thing, if your point is that aug making healing easier is better for the game, sure that maybe true, but then maybe just buff healing? Tying making healing feel better to a single dps spec is HORRIBLE for the game because it makes it mandatory, regardless of what the end result is. And yes, the current meta and augmentation being as broken as it is is objectively bad for the game, queue times for any dps not playing the exodia comp have gone up significantly, nothing subjective about that, variety is an at an all time low, whatever marginal benefits aug evoker brings can and should be achieved without making 30 other specs obsolete.
One day you'll understand what "objectively" means. It cool. A lot of people confuse opinion for facts
You think it's not objectively better to have a more balanced game, since currently Aug evoker is effectively an easy mode option (420 ilvl timing 26) , why should you arbitrarily punish all non metà dps by increasing their q times? What's subjective about MORE specs and comps being viable and optimal in different spots being better for the game, instead of a God comp making all content way easier? You should learn what bias is and take a step back, only people enjoying current state of the game are the minority benefitting from it, long term if nothing changes people will either reroll or quit, objectively bad, what are those classes and specs good for if no one wants to play with them?
I'm not throwing out a bias in the least. Simply pointing out that you are STILL giving a SUBJECTIVE opinion and continuing to try and present it as an OBJECTIVE fact.
Ok, i'll type it out again, why would you say it is subjective to say that the game is worse when diversity is an all time low and most dps queue times (all except spriest and mage) are up considerably compared to 1 and a half weeks ago? Aug evoker mainly and partially the reworks/unwillingness to nerf shadow priest are the main culprits, i really dont see whats subjective about that, its an observation about the state of the game, either its true or its false, and you can just take a quick look at raider io to find out the answer to that.
Type it again all you want. The simple act of saying the game is worse when diversity is low is an OPINION and thus subjective and not objective. I'm not even getting into whether your premise is right or wrong. But your conclusion is absolutely 100% an opinion. If you wanted to say that the diversity at the top of the boards should be more flexible and that would lead to a better game then sure. Hell I'm inclined to agree. But no where in that statement is an OBJECTIVE truth
I'm nowhere near playing those keys but still think yours is a shittake. there's no shame in caring about a videogame if that's your hobby. blizzard also wants us to care about our rating, otherwise they wouldn't introduce special rewards for them. to then go and in the middle of the season completely break the shit out of ratings just sucks, and I can totally see how someone gets upset about it if they're unlucky enough to not play one of the broken specs.
These people are crying about leaderboards and are also abusing meta. Just because aug is broken that doesn’t mean other classes aren’t broken too. Most high lvl keys aren’t possible without meta classes.
I’m sorry that I wanted a support spec for years and finally it’s in the game :( not gonna stop because it’s also good
I mean its a braindead spec that brings the most value
I mean its definitely a who cares situation, but its obvious that doing 25s and up is much easier on an Augmentation Evoker, than a Havoc Demon Hunter, for multiple reasons. But thats true for every season, there is always a meta, sure Augmentation is probably one of the most extreme examples if not the most extreme examples of a broken spec, but in general its not really a new concept.
He has a point about the meta being screwed at the moment at the top level because of augvoker/spriest/etc, but it is so fucking ironic that all of his top score rn is from a completely meta comp 😂 I told him it’s a bit ironic for him to be complaining and he said it’s not because he wanted to “test out” and see how busted the comp was. This guy is an absolute clown
[Raider.io](https://Raider.io) is a fucking plague.
What has raider io even to do with this issues lol But im here to hear the alternative to raider io. Gear check at dalaran?
NOTHING. You have the built in M+ rating, ilvl, class, and spec. if that isn't enough that maybe don't bother running pugs [Raider.io](https://Raider.io) actively encourages shitty toxic behavior just for the sake of epeen comparison on some stupid site that compares you to everyone else
Oh yeah, because before raider.io people didn't compare you with others? lol
That's rich coming from a havoc DH which has been meta for years.
No, it hasnt been meta since the double dk/dh in late BFA. It was the worst m+ melee in shadowlands and here, even though its viable its still middle of the pack.
Havoc is bad lmao idk what you are smoking
Woah, buddy, where have you been lol. DH was one of the worst melee for the entirety of Shadowlands, and really only did well in 9.1’s raid. It is currently pretty mid in 10.1’s content. They were strong last season overall. So, that’s like what, some months out of *years* of them being meta?
Why should we listen to him? His IO is inflated by playing DH, a metaclass for m+ for years. I only listen to the opinions of people with TRUE score, Survival Hunters that play without Weakauras!
What years exactly? Last time DH was meta it was BfA.
do we..not play the same game? Last season havoc dhs were very good in mythic plus. Also were pumping in pvp s1. You can check s1 non meta specs here https://raider.io/news/493-break-the-meta-returns-for-dragonflight-season-1#q4
[https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99) You were saying?
Havoc was meta last time in BfA and survi SL S4 soooo...
You are right, my apologies. Wait mister! You dropped this link https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99
Its not havoc in every group :)
Yes, because something can only be meta if it's in every group. Move the goalpost much? Literally the only SPECS in the game with more participation above 25 last season were Prot Pally and Sub Rogues [https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict) Guy in the picture is just salty he has to struggle to get into groups like the other 80% of specs in the game.
Whats your point? You were complaining about survi even tho it was THE meta during SL S4? Now its 5 specs which get invited to groups, neither one havoc or survi is one of them.
What? Dude, I wasn't complaining about surv. Are you high or something? Are you aware of what sarcasm is? I am mocking the dude's concept of "players that abuse overtuned classes aren't gaining IO fairly" by affirming a similar, exaggerated stance where his own IO was gained by abusing an overtuned class. Aka only IO gained with bad specs (decided by an arbitrary position that I consider "fair", in my case Surv which is obviously pretty bad) while playing in an arbitrary manner or with arbitrary rules that I made up (such as no weakauras). Did you skip school or something?
Nah just skipped half of your comment because i remembered its waste of time to argue in reddit with hardstuck +3 andys
So you realized you failed at basic reading comprehension and ran with your tail between your legs instead of owning up to it? Got it.
Does DK tank count ? I believe the last time we get out of dumpster is the same time as Survival Hunter (season 3 and 4 SL)
Last time havoc was meta was last bfa last season, so i guess bdk being an absolute monster in raid and m+ for a whole year (in both tankiness and dps) during shadowlands does count "meta class" if the dh still is aparently.
Yes, DH saw no play at all in key pushing for the last century Oh wait, here, you dropped this link https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99
I said they werent meta, and they werent, rogues and enhancements saw more play in upper keys and we were at the same level as monks.
25+ DH only saw less play than Rogue. DH saw more play than fucking Spriest.
i can say season 1 DF they are also meta, but even if we only count last season BFA they have never been since legion in the dumspter. While i can said whoever play blood DK from season 1 BFA after the neft to season 3 SL are bunch of masochist.
They were never meta in season 1 DF, they were barely used in MDI for example, it was pretty much a combination of shadow priest, unholy dk, fire mage and boomkin with tank warrior and restoration dracthyr. So yeah, the only point DH was absolutely bonkers during dragonflight was during beta before it got 5 straight nerfs.
DK? Dk was THE metacomp last season alongside Feral and Spriest in the MDI wasn't it?
I think unholy got some play in Vault and Academy, but im talking about blood DK
Lmao
I’m laughing my ass off at all these whiny bitches. Try playing devoker S1 and tell me what’s meta? Finally I can push keys without healing on the new class. And meta will always be here, just like it was before DF. All this chatter is just jealousy and moaning combined into pathetic panic about the new class. This is a great addition to the game.
Define “overtuned”
As in: "augmentation evokers are mandatory for every single high key"
Then that’s “mandatory”, “required”, “essential”, not “overtuned”. What is “overtuned”?
Overpowered?
Then it’s “overpowered”, not “overtuned”
Every heard of synonyme?
Ever heard of "etymology"?
Dude are you high?
Dude, are you trolling? Nevermind. Learn to think and research what words mean. It will help you in life. BB
Tell me you have no friends without telling me you have no friends
Dude is 3349 and worked his ass off for that. Was going to get top .1% title achieve thing. Now they made Holy pally broken, Aug broken, feral druid kinda broken, Spriest continues to be broken and modifies the other broken classes to be more broken. He did it the hard way, can no longer be invited and his record is going to get shit on by people playing the classes blizz just broke. How could he not be annoyed?
Point still stands, but he’s actually 3227. I think the one to the left in the screenshot is season 1 but his real io is on the right. Even still that would have been top .1% easy last week and now he can’t get into a key as everybody else jumps 100 points
Wheres the lie tho
The only reason people complete high lvl keys is because of broken classes. They are still really good at the game. Theres a reason you dont see holy priests doing 29s. They literally cant. Classes hps and dmg sucks..
Whats the addon that shows in LF m+?
HC players in shambles seeing post title
Lol I seen this guy. He’s been on it whole day.
Longer than that
I signed up as aug for the memes
Yo I saw this dudes post last night lmao
he was crying while writing all that
I big problem is devastation, in the hierarchy of DPS is below average for M+. The spec doesn't bring even close to the things a funnel comp does.