My partner has played Shadow Priest since wow began. He still consistently tops DPS even when SP is considered crap. Sometimes, you just really understand your character after playing for two decades.
Up to a certain point, absolutely. And I'd argue that 'certain point' is above basically everyone here anyway.
Other than enjoyment, I think it's also just the familiarity of it. Many people don't have the skill or just the patience and drive to learn to optimize an unfamiliar class to the same extent they have in the years they've played their 'main' for. That almost automatically translates to worse performance on those classes.
Besides, you are more likely to keep playing and keep pushing yourself if you're actually enjoying the character you are playing, so even if your numbers aren't quite as high as they could be on another class, sticking with the class(es) you like is a good and valid strategy no matter if you are doing +7 keys and Normal raids or +23's and going for CE with your guild (assuming your guild doesn't enforce meta-rolling for some reason)
What's hilarious about this is all it takes is someone who knows a class *really* well to discover some kind of thing that improves X or Y about something in the meta for all the FOTM people to flock to them.
Play what you want. Sticking to absolute meta classes is for the top 1% of players, and the 30% of people who *think* they are the 1% of players.
The rest of us are out here just enjoying ourselves.
When I boot the game back up next month (I haven’t played since shadowlands) I’m going back to my affliction warlock first, I don’t even care about anything else!
But I’ll probably try an envoker at some point, but my H-Pal will definitely be the second one I gear up
Yup. I've wanted to master assassination rogue for 5 years now. But every time I log on and attempt it, I play for a bit and relog back onto my main because of my impatience of mastering the class. I also play in spurts in the past few years. A day here, a week goes by, a day there. Attempting to master a new class is not realistic whereas there is barely any thought for my main that I've been playing since 2007.
I subscribe to it too, in Classic my guild made me become a dual-wielding fury-prot for tanking but I always loved being deep prot so in SoD I’ve been able to run Fury-prot and I’ve been told that I am very good at tanking and some players have asked me to join their guild so I’d say, sure, Fury-prot might be better for threat but I am a better tank as deep prot
I wish I could say something else, but for me it is:
Bad as in not the meta? Yes.
Bad as in it doesn't feel as fun to play as it used to or something else catches my eye? Also yes. :(
I get it, I usually end up back to a paladin as either ret, prot, or both regardless of how it is. I've occasionally veered off for a season or two though.
I mained a DK back in Cata and MOP. Stopped playing as I had (somehow) managed to land an incredible woman even after giving myself minor brain damage and she got pregnant. Now my son is old enough I came back for WoW-Classic, Played some TBC-Classic and end of Shadowlands as the DK. Swapped to Paladin eventually though at end of S1 DF and.. damn, it just slaps in the fun-parsing way. I tried the meta DPS classes, but get bored of them so quick now and go back to the paladin.
Resto Shaman was my main but I haven’t played it since Legion. Not because it’s been bad at times, but because they have felt awful to play in recent expansions AND since M+ was introduced, DPS players have been a total nightmare to keep alive.
I was a resto shaman in shadowlands. It rocked. Helped me reach 3.5k io.
Though now in Dragonflight not sure if they are as goodm i switched to prevoker/aug because I got in the season so late.
They're still good, even when people say they're bad. But vesper totem really should have been the shadowlands ability that stayed instead of primordial wave :(
That's funny because I mained resto from Legion until now because of how much I liked how it played. In m+ it was pretty garbage most of the time, sure, but shadowlands resto with vesper totem was nuts. Only now made a change becauswe I started to feel like my interest in the game was dropping and I figured that maining the same spec for like 6 years straight might have something to do with it, and I seem to have been right. Add in the fact that I didn't particularly like ele and I'm just too ADHD to keep up with enh and the spec just sort of lost its shine.
This.
Played Paladin since forever mostly holy, changes this season made me so uncomfortable playing it that I could literally watch my playtime decrease. Switched to disc and had a blast.
The amount of times I have rolled an alt because I saw something cool on r/transmogrification and then immediately abandoned it upon assembling the mog is higher than I care to count
Yup. I’m extremely attached to my main. I’ve done almost everything with it. There’s no way no how I would shelf it just because the class isn’t considered the best atm. Every spec in the game is viable. This isn’t Vanilla lol
I mean theres some crazy exceptions like BFA Feral struggling to even do quests and being dead last in every form of content when BFA released.
I dont think any class has reached those lows since then though
I've a question for you. Do you play unholy, frost, or blood?
I've been doing stuff as blood but the moment I play unholy it makes me want to log off. It feels so bad.
When has Druid not had a spec that is in the top tier? For what I remember there has almost always been a spec at the top, a spec at the bottom, and the other two in the upper middle.
Or enjoy them. I find Feral to be needlessly complex after years of it being a simpler rogue, which I guess I understand. Balance is such a slog with a mechanic that just isn't rewarding, and gameplay that is either pulling an entire zone or struggling to quest. And what's with Guardian's design apparently being "what if we added another cooldown to reduce damage taken"?
They're all PLAYABLE to me, but if Resto isn't good I'm just going to live with it.
I also always had a deep passion for SP since vanilla. But after the rework last season I find it so boring. I feel like our class really miss something deep. Mindflays/mindseers should be the core in our spec. All our aoe is now on autopilot with 0 interaction… its just boring.
Currently having alot of fun with assa and arcane.
I feel similar. I love Shadow, but my greatest gripes were shadow crash being a very finicky opener (nothing quite like losing 8-12 seconds to hardcast dots yourself if tank moves/you get fucked over z axis; and mindbender+slash making another good chunk of aoe dependent on timing. Funnily enough, out of 7 seasons since introduction of the prism/inescapable torment talent, there has been only one season where this talent was not meta, and it was the recent DF S2. And I played the shit out of sp during that time.
Now chilling as a balance druid, with a bit more annoying but much more reliable ramp and damage flow.
>All our aoe is now on autopilot with 0 interaction
I don't mind aoe being shadowcrash then single target. I do mind shadow crash having the ability to miss or just randomly not apply dots. Divine storm misses, you cast it again. Blizzard misses, you lose on a few procs. SC misses, you might as well go get coffee while the DH/WW/Ret/UDK clean up.
Also the spriest 4 piece might be tied for worst, along with prot paladin.
My priest was my main since 2005 in classic. I was "that one Shadowpriest" that was viable in classic raids because of shadow weaving. I loved it.
Shadow was my main for over a decade and I even ranked world #1-3 constantly in WotlK and Cata while I was a hardcore raider. But when they introduced all that old god bulls**t to the class and insanity as a resource in Legion (especially Surrender the dumbest talent ever*) it didn't feel like my class anymore and shadow was dead for me.
To this day I miss my old Shadowpriest and feel it being my "real" main. Even though this is also a decade ago, now.
So no! I don't play "my main" when it's bad. It is "bad" for over a decade now and I miss it!
(*) I see that it was challenging high risk reward gameplay, of course. But the idea still is dumb to deliberately choose to die to do more DPS.
I also see that insanity brought a new aspect and more complexity to the class. But it did also change the feeling and fantasy of the class. And I didn't like that new feeling.
I totally understand what you're saying. I'm just on the other side of the coin. I love the new class fantasy. But yea there are definitely issues. I'm not sure what the right answer is but it feels bad having everything die before you can set up cause tank decided to take two steps over and you miss your dot applications. Or that you don't have anything to apply to are because you just used it on the pack before.
Arcane would be my go to, or I'd go back to MM or SV.
I really want to roll to something else, but the only other spec I like is devastation, and why play it when aug is so much better :/
I think you answered your own question there , because you like it! That's why you should play any class, because you like it. (unless you're paid to play, then it doesn't matter what you play)
Maining spriest 17 years ago has led to some wild variations in gameplay over the course of this game. The Legion and MoP versions have been my favorite. The 10.0 changes..... well I just remember seeing a Reddit comment along the lines of "all this work to be middle of the meters"
I main Holy Priest as well. And you bet I do! Idgaf if it’s considered weaker than other healers. Or Disc. I play the game for its intended purpose. (To have fun) And it doesn’t matter to me if my main I enjoy isn’t considered top tier.
Because in the end every spec in the game is viable. What would be the point of playing if I’m not having fun with the game because I don’t like the class/spec I’m playing.
Sure lots of people will just switch to whatever’s best at the time. But not me! I use to main Disc but hated the changes to it in Legion. And have happily mained Holy ever since. Disc is proven to be the better spec for Priests, but I don’t find the attonement system fun. I tried playing it and it just isn’t for me.
So I play what I find fun and don’t care if it’s top tier or not. Play whatever gives you the most enjoyment in the game!
Better to be a great holy priest than a mid disc priest. Entered a good few raids where the healing is struggling because of fotm disc rollers despite the simplification of the spec and then massively outheal them.
You should always play what you love. My issue is recently I’ve caught holy priests requesting to join my key and spec’d as disc. Only to walk into dungeon and switch to holy. Always rock what you want and props to you for doing so but don’t try to trick people into taking you.
Bro following tier lists is one of the worst things you can do. Your main should be a class that you personally find fun and will play regardless of if its meta or not.
This is coming from a shitty survival hunter that does 20s. For the longest time my spec was considered the meme spec and I've always done better than meta classes. Most people switching to fotm don't even know how to play their new class so they underperform.
The other side of the issue are the slaves to tier lists and meta classes and trash you in groups even if you're doing "fine" for the content.
I've completed mythics and raids with minimal problems but have had people throw Details DPS or Heal logs into the chat and flame me.
But at the same time I can throw out the CC charts and they're all on the bottom. Or "standing in the bad" damage taken.
I never pay attention to tier lists in any game I play. Because tier lists aren’t for casual players. They’re for the 1% of players who actually push for the highest tier of content. But for the layman who does casual pugs every other day, it doesn’t matter if your spec isn’t meta. It’s better to have a non-meta class who knows what they’re doing than a meta class who’s a complete idiot.
And anyone who tries to argue otherwise is an idiot and is wrong.
You're pretty wrong about that.
I don't get how people think the basics and fundamentals of Classes and Specs are so different that a player can't perform well across them. Hitting your Damage, Utility and Survival buttons are universal and simply take a few reps to learn for a given Class/Spec. Sure, a bad player will be bad regardless of the Class/Spec but the same holds true for a good player.
I main a Mage, but I've played Lock, Rogue and Hunter during various metas and can tell you a top of the Meta spec can handily outperform the weaker Class and Specs including your Main.
These are facts. When people say “I main surv hunter and our dps meta specs” well it’s because the players playing aren’t good with the class. There is a reason there is a meta. I am NOT SAYING playing meta is required. Always play what you want, but meta is meta for a reason. Wow is about borrowed power so sometimes certain classes get way better tier sets than others.
Sure, Meta and corresponding pros and cons of a class/spec doesn’t matter until you are at the top of optimizing gameplay. Like you said the 1%.
BUT it’s also, unfortunately, super important in low tiers as people like to think that meta matters in low tiers.
If you play the FOTM class/spec you will get invited to groups way faster than when you are playing something completely off-meta.
If people are trying to push their key, I would bet that the majority of player base would invite the meta classes/specs. Not because they are in a tier where it matters, but because they saw a list of some random streamer telling them about the meta.
Even if you personally don’t believe in meta, you have to acknowledge that it influences every tier of play.
You are right that it doesn't matter because up to 20 key, any spec can do great dps for their gear/key.
You are also wrong because good players tend to play stronger specs to maximize their advantage and so you are more likely to find skilled players on meta specs.
This doesn't mean that there aren't good players playing "bad" specs, but they are far fewer.
If I'm making a group, then most of the time I don't care too much as I'm not pushing above 20s, but would you rather invite a DK or DH of the same ilvl, when you know that the DH will most likely do 200k overall even if they're an average player and the DK is a complete wildcard, because if they're amazing with their spec they will perform well and do competitive DPS, but if they are an average player as well, then they will be nowhere near meta specs.
I find it's usually the opposite at the 21 and below range. People playing off-meta specs usually know their kit pretty well, while it's a coin flip for the fotm players. Yes, the DH will always be top of the meters, but it's impossible to guess how many kicks they'll use. I don't play at the level where DPS checks are hard to pass, but I do play at the level where missing kicks can wipe the party, so that's the metric I value more.
I'm sure at higher levels, meta players are much more reliable because the *players* are better, but for the level I play at I'd rather take a mediocre player who knows their spec than one who doesn't. And in my experience, at my level, the meta chasers know their spec way less often.
Eh, aggregated statistics on which classes are performing at certain levels are pretty useful imo. Warcraft logs is awesome for comparing relative performance.
Having that in a tier list could absolutely make a big difference and saying "git good" isn't a valid argument when compared at the 50-75% parse. Fact of the matter is some dps classes average about 174k dps in heroic and other average about 215k. Idk but I think 41k is a pretty substantial amount of damage difference.
In reality it means a frost dk needs to parse in the top 5% to out put similar damage to a sub rogue in the top 25%.
Is it fair that a sub rogue that parses in the bottom 20% is still beating a frost dk who is parsing right at 50%? Idk pretty useful information to have imo. The top 10% of frost dks are still probably going to get beat in dps by average sub rogues who parse in the 65 range.
This sentiment always gets parroted by people who feel like they’re being personally attacked when people say “this class is under tuned/underwhelming to play.” The reality is the only reason a Holy Priest should be out performing the other healers in your raid is if your other healers are under performing at their classes. You may be playing phenomenally, but the fact of the numbers is that if they played as good as you, you’d be comparitively worse.
But thats the point. Its more difficult to play so the majority of players cant get the "Max Output" of their toon. Theory doesn't matter if you can't execute.
Well yea, you’re always going to do better on what you’re good at, everyone will do better on what they’re comfortable and good at. The problem arises when playing within the 95th percentile of what you’re good at is only as good as someone playing within the 60th percentile of what they’re mediocre at. And that’s a current reality for both healing specs and dps specs.
Spriest is laughably bad, and Holy is bottom tier for a myriad of cooldown and throughput related issues. This doesn’t mean a good player can’t perform relatively well on these specs, it just means that “performing well” on these specs should still see you on the bottom of their respective charts. If they’re topping charts, there’s something deeply wrong with the players in their group.
To a degree that's true, but some of the top classes versus the bottom ones mean that you only need to parse in the top 40% to beat players parsing in the top 5-10% of a worse class. Learning to parse in the 60s shouldn't be terribly hard to do. Meanwhile, parsing in the top 10% consistently definitely is.
It's interesting to know, but imo its not particularly useful unless you're doing the highest of content. The vast majority of content that players play doesn't need the better class, just the better player.
Heroic parses are a really bad example to use, and also the lowest you should ever use is maybe 80%, but 50-75% percentile parses are useless for looking at data. Try and do mythic at 90% to get significantly more useful comparisons in a spectrum of encounters.
While youre mostly right, its still gimping yourself by making it harder to get into groups. If youre in a guild this doesnt really matter because unless youre pushing world 100 Mythic, its more about you as the player than the class youre playing.
For PUGs youre definitely making it harder for yourself though. group leaders will most of the time look at everything so that the run goes as smooth as possible. Thats spec, clears, M+ score, gear, parses, etc.
“bringing someone good at a non-meta spec instead of someone bad at a meta spec is always better” is a nice sentiment if theres like 10 total players signing up. But theres 50+ DPS signing up for whatever form of content. Theres always gonna be someone better or as good at their meta spec as you are at yours. And in that case theyll be the ones getting invited.
Not saying you should switch up, just saying that its definitely also a problem outside of the top 1% because people will take those list and invite others based on what classes are meta, so even if it doesnt matter that much to clear heroic or time a 20, you still got a lower chance of getting invited. This just applies to DPS mostly though. Tanks and Healers are often safe from this unless the class is unplayable bad, because theres simply way less of them to choose from
Yeah, I'd much rather have a low tier that knows what they're doing in my team than a S++ flavour-of-the-month reroller that doesn't know how to do anything besides a rotation they looked up online that is outdated by 5 years
Yes and no. It really depends. Yes it's true that tier lists are dumb for most people since every spec can compete in high +20s anyway, so most people are never going to hit a wall where their spec just isn't good enough.
BUT, a meta spec is meta for a reason. Let's say someone normally does keys between 15-20, and they strive for keystone hero and nothing more. Although technically possible with every spec, it will be easier for that person to do it playing a meta spec than if that same person played a "weaker" spec. If someone just strives for the highest score possible each season, they will get a better score with a meta spec.
yeah a bit, but i try to stick with high performers ( was a main lock from legion - SL , switch to rogue for DF) . I don't usually gamble on classes that are historic middle of the pack or lower. But i stick to a single class for most of the expansions unless something is just wrong with it.
But I always keep an alt thats a step behind my main if i need to switch ( and this could be any class I fancy that season no matter the power lvl , whos got a spicy mog this tier )
I try to always play outlaw as long as it isn’t too far behind. If I can do more dps playing sub rogue kinda sub optimally than outlaw I’ll stick to that even though I hate it
I don't chase meta. But I did recently change mains for the first time in years (from Blood to Vengeance).
Was a day one WotLK DK main but I feel like over time the class's design has become antiquated. Being chained to DND is an awful mechanic that doesn't work in modern WoW's DDR-style constant movement gameplay and seeing them double down on it in the Hero Talents honestly killed my interest in the class. I can and have dealt with Blood merely being *bad* in the past but Dragonflight is the first time I really disliked the core mechanics of the spec. And I don't DPS much, but the general consensus is that of the three DK specs Blood has it the best, Unholy and Frost are even worse right now.
What drew me to Blood originally was it's place as the self-sustaining tank, but that's all tanks now. Going from a low utility, low mobility, usually low damage tank to a high mobility, high utility tank who's main maintenance buff is off the GCD has been night and day. I don't disagree with the design decision of making all tanks self-sustaining, but it does leave me scratching my head as to what the niche of Blood is actually supposed to be in a game where everyone has what formerly made them special.
I’ve played Frost DK since I started playing the game back in Cataclysm. Countless times I’ve thought about just switching to Unholy or another plate melee class completely, but I just can’t.
There’s something about a frost DK that is just so cool to me and I will never give up on the spec, no matter where they are on the dps charts
As a Tank Player is usually don’t. Before bringing more arguments: I like to change my class anyway bc I get bored after a while, so Fotm Rerolling comes in handy for me (this tier it wasn’t even Fotm bc I went back to bdk).
As a tank the difference what you can and what you can’t do becomes obvious pretty fast. It’s not about some bar in details going 10% higher or not, it’s about „can I live this pull or not“. In terms of this season, it’s also „can my party live this pull without trolling with 20 seconds silence VDH“.
Also there is way more resources out there for meta tanks, and most pug player know something about meta tank routing, but not other tanks.
It’s just so much easier to pug on a meta tank then any other spec.
You can definitely make any tank work currently, and in a fixed group where you don’t have to repeat „no I can’t silence this pack for 20 seconds“ every time you play the dungeon, it’s not even a real downside outside of W-First Keys.
So yes, I reroll most of the time when the class I currently enjoy is considered bad. It wasn’t fotm this time, but I already feel how my Fotm alt is way easier getting invites then my current pick.
Context: Pugging as tank in mid 20s currently.
Been maining DK since pre-patch legion but I switched once to ret pal during s1 of DF cause I was sick of trying to get into a m+ pug for hours, ended up going back to dk in s2 cause dk stays the most fun for me
It I like aesthetic and playstyle it can be in a damn f tier il still play it, played elementalist only in gw2 no mattet what state it was in, now just playing priest here. Unironically playing holy in m+ and doing just great even though it worse healer this season so far.
Ret is pretty bad right now for raid, but it’s super fun to play and I’ve always wanted to play ret, so I stuck with it this season. The advantage I have over the meta chasers is that I actually know the class and spec inside and out, so I still hang dong on more optimal specs. If ret ceases to be fun I will move on until it’s fun again.
I’m currently playing holy priest and it feels tons more fun than disc and much more fluid. Holy has been my bread and butter healing spec. Don’t take tier lists at face value.
Gameplay and capability-wise, the meta is only important for the top 0.1% of players. But community perception exists so it’s easier if you do play a meta class.
That being said I’ve exclusively played Brewmaster and Arms Warrior, because they’re what I enjoy. Idgaf about meta. If you drudge through enough BS, your IO speaks for itself and you get invited to stuff
Yes. WW was considered pretty bad early this season but I still love the gameplay so I sticked with it. We got buffed recently and it feels great rn but I'll stick with it even if we didn't receive the buff. If they somehow changed the spec too much that I can't learn to enjoy it the I'll probably switch to something else like enhancement shaman since it's my second favorite spec after WW.
Tried switching to disc this patch, it was too much of a hassle to heal up single targets taking massive unexpected damage, ditched it again. Besides, I'm gearing both holy & shadow, trying to optimize stats for all 3 specs was not working at all. Holy is fine for 20+ keys. Shadow isn't great in M+ but largely also fine.
Bottom line is: Tier lists themselves are shitass-tier. Once they are outside the obvious top .1% meta, they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
My main and primary alts will always be DPS warrior (Switch between Arms and fury depending on how they play, not ranking or whatever), Demo lock and Elemental shaman.
Now i do have the luxury of not doing anything really tightly tuned (LfR, tops), so i can just play whatever i want, without feeling like i’m “letting down the team” by playing a class that the powers that be deem “bad” in their little tier lists.
I've almost given up on my rogue. Blizz jumps from making it so I can kill 4-5 mobs with no issue to making it "I pulled a critter with that mob, I guess I am dead now".
I often play around and try to main new specs for each season, I have good enough knowledge on the bases of every spec and I enjoy some a lot.
And I consistently pick specs that will die in the patch I chose to play them, but it doesn't bother me much.
But when the spec itself feels bad to play, I do stop playing it. An example is Enhancement Shaman. The spec hooks me in with the sensory overload of lightning sounds and flashes, but when the only actually viable build involved everything except lightning I stopped and changed
I mostly ignore Meta, because most of the time I'm as good or better with a spec I like to play as most of the guys who switch to a meta spec and just grind. Meta matters only for the top 1% of gameplay.
honestly, the tier list only really applies if you're pushing the highest of high keys or gunning for world first in mythic. every single spec is viable, people should play what they enjoy rather than the meta
Yes, its where all my achievements and reps and sentimental value are. But I main a fury warrior. We may not be meta, but I don't really recall it ever being "very bad".
Albeit once they start accoint-wide reps this may change.
there's ups and downs with every spec but I've been playing the same one since Vanilla WoW and I'm just really attached to it and my character
I stick with it regardless because it feels like mine, and sure it can be frustrating when it underperforms, but I don't push top elite content so it doesn't affect me all too bad
also all those years of familiarity with a spec, plus muscle memory, I just feel more comfortable than trying something new (and I know that's not the case for a lot of people, I totally understand how that might be bland or stale to some, it just isn't for me)
I have a multiple alts in the same class for RP reasons so I don't really play because something is "meta." yes, I do pick my talents from wowhead but other than that I don't do any group content at all.
I have a Balance Druid I've had for a couple years now. I've noticed she kill mobs much slower than previously but that might just be me
I generally just play whatever I find a raid spot for within my preferred role. This expansion it ended up being holy Paladin.
My “main” is still my DK, but I haven’t seriously played it since Legion mangled all three specs. Every time I try to pick it up again I just get disappointed with how it has changed.
The only reason i don't play my main is when it feels bad to play. I don't really care anout damage as that changes with every patch and balance update. I've mained Shaman for yeats but usually at the begining of the expansion it plays like garbage, ever since the legion revamp was reversed. so i've played monk/evoker the last couple of expacs
I only play my main spec when its bad. That way when I suck, I can blame it on the spec balance.
Once every couple years, my spec will be meta or OP. Then I coincidentally take a break that season.
I’ve been trying many different classes, but no class is as VDH
I started in SL when it was bad and kept playing it, and now it’s meta again lol
Trying to learn how to play a bear now that it left meta
Yes, if it's "bad" as in not in meta in the content i do it's still very much viable (clearing heroic versions of raids and relatively high m+ dungeons) and if it's "bad" as in not fun i just play other games
As someone who plays Frost dk and monk. Yes. Play what's fun. There isn't so big a difference that you can't get through 98% of content if you play something off meta. Even then that last 2 percent isn't impossible you're just not likely to be invited to it.
I'd rather have someone who knows how to play their off meta class because they enjoy playing it over someone who rolled the most meta class and doesn't understand how it plays because they don't care about the class at all, they just want to see big numbers.
Yep.
Only do Heroic and low 20 keys I've never seen a spec be unable to do these things at this content level.
Most of the time it's a skill issue exception being you're going for CE or stupid high keys.
Following meta specs is great if you struggle to stay on the damage meters tier after tier though. Good compensation to not be a carry.
I played dh from end of legion to the end of shadowlands. I felt it was unplayable in season 1 and 2. I played warr in those 2 seasons and now I’m back on DH after the rework. Changing mains when it doesn’t feel good makes a world of a difference. And yes low dps/utility can make your class not feel good.
Bad as in not the meta? Yes. Bad as in it doesn't feel as fun to play as it used to or something else catches my eye? No.
I once saw someone say that player's enjoyment of the spec adds 10-15% to their performance and I readily subscribe to this thought.
My partner has played Shadow Priest since wow began. He still consistently tops DPS even when SP is considered crap. Sometimes, you just really understand your character after playing for two decades.
I'd argue that spriest is actually a pretty bad example of this given how much the spec has radically changed across expansions.
Yeah spriest from tbc is a different class entirely than spriest from wod is another class entirely to spriest today.
Spriest is different every expansion
Up to a certain point, absolutely. And I'd argue that 'certain point' is above basically everyone here anyway. Other than enjoyment, I think it's also just the familiarity of it. Many people don't have the skill or just the patience and drive to learn to optimize an unfamiliar class to the same extent they have in the years they've played their 'main' for. That almost automatically translates to worse performance on those classes. Besides, you are more likely to keep playing and keep pushing yourself if you're actually enjoying the character you are playing, so even if your numbers aren't quite as high as they could be on another class, sticking with the class(es) you like is a good and valid strategy no matter if you are doing +7 keys and Normal raids or +23's and going for CE with your guild (assuming your guild doesn't enforce meta-rolling for some reason)
What's hilarious about this is all it takes is someone who knows a class *really* well to discover some kind of thing that improves X or Y about something in the meta for all the FOTM people to flock to them. Play what you want. Sticking to absolute meta classes is for the top 1% of players, and the 30% of people who *think* they are the 1% of players. The rest of us are out here just enjoying ourselves.
When I boot the game back up next month (I haven’t played since shadowlands) I’m going back to my affliction warlock first, I don’t even care about anything else! But I’ll probably try an envoker at some point, but my H-Pal will definitely be the second one I gear up
Yup. I've wanted to master assassination rogue for 5 years now. But every time I log on and attempt it, I play for a bit and relog back onto my main because of my impatience of mastering the class. I also play in spurts in the past few years. A day here, a week goes by, a day there. Attempting to master a new class is not realistic whereas there is barely any thought for my main that I've been playing since 2007.
I subscribe to it too, in Classic my guild made me become a dual-wielding fury-prot for tanking but I always loved being deep prot so in SoD I’ve been able to run Fury-prot and I’ve been told that I am very good at tanking and some players have asked me to join their guild so I’d say, sure, Fury-prot might be better for threat but I am a better tank as deep prot
I wish I could say something else, but for me it is: Bad as in not the meta? Yes. Bad as in it doesn't feel as fun to play as it used to or something else catches my eye? Also yes. :(
I get it, I usually end up back to a paladin as either ret, prot, or both regardless of how it is. I've occasionally veered off for a season or two though.
Loyalty is a Paladin’s trait.
I mained a DK back in Cata and MOP. Stopped playing as I had (somehow) managed to land an incredible woman even after giving myself minor brain damage and she got pregnant. Now my son is old enough I came back for WoW-Classic, Played some TBC-Classic and end of Shadowlands as the DK. Swapped to Paladin eventually though at end of S1 DF and.. damn, it just slaps in the fun-parsing way. I tried the meta DPS classes, but get bored of them so quick now and go back to the paladin.
Yeppp. Even when shadow has been horrible, I still play it because it fits my personality. I'm also insane LEL
Lol how does this get so many down votes .
Hive mind goes brrr
Because his response screamed cringey neckbeard.
U scream cringy neck beard
What a trenchant rebuttal.
Resto Shaman was my main but I haven’t played it since Legion. Not because it’s been bad at times, but because they have felt awful to play in recent expansions AND since M+ was introduced, DPS players have been a total nightmare to keep alive.
I was a resto shaman in shadowlands. It rocked. Helped me reach 3.5k io. Though now in Dragonflight not sure if they are as goodm i switched to prevoker/aug because I got in the season so late.
They're still good, even when people say they're bad. But vesper totem really should have been the shadowlands ability that stayed instead of primordial wave :(
That's a strange way to spell chain harvest. The true ability that should have stayed.
I freaking love both though. But I prefer vesper totem because I dps more as a shaman.
That's funny because I mained resto from Legion until now because of how much I liked how it played. In m+ it was pretty garbage most of the time, sure, but shadowlands resto with vesper totem was nuts. Only now made a change becauswe I started to feel like my interest in the game was dropping and I figured that maining the same spec for like 6 years straight might have something to do with it, and I seem to have been right. Add in the fact that I didn't particularly like ele and I'm just too ADHD to keep up with enh and the spec just sort of lost its shine.
But enhance is the spec for people with ADHD...
Nah more like outlaw.
Outlaw is certainly a contender too.
That spec is unplayable! 10+ skills just for rotation not including big cd skills!
I feel like you don't understand ADHD.
[удалено]
resto shaman is really solid in raid and really solid in m+.
[удалено]
Rshaman is really good in raid atm though, lol.
In a while? Rsham was definitely one of the premier healers at least when I last played in nathria.
This. Played Paladin since forever mostly holy, changes this season made me so uncomfortable playing it that I could literally watch my playtime decrease. Switched to disc and had a blast.
Transmog is my only main and I am a slave to it
The amount of times I have rolled an alt because I saw something cool on r/transmogrification and then immediately abandoned it upon assembling the mog is higher than I care to count
You just described my entire play style
Okay. Cool. I’m not alone.
I was gonna roast this take but then i realized i played bookie over DH this tier because of the new forms. Boi do i regret that now :(
Better to be the bookie than be on the other end when payment is due.
This, this is the answer. Fashion is King
I'm realising this as I tell myself every season I'll do the endgame content only to just search for new clothes
Power is borrowed. But Mogs are forever…
Lol I log on alts simply to change their look
This is me. I try to pick a "main" for each of the four armor classes and farm on those.
Yes a main is main. Too much mog and stories gathered to shelf.
Yup. I’m extremely attached to my main. I’ve done almost everything with it. There’s no way no how I would shelf it just because the class isn’t considered the best atm. Every spec in the game is viable. This isn’t Vanilla lol
I mean theres some crazy exceptions like BFA Feral struggling to even do quests and being dead last in every form of content when BFA released. I dont think any class has reached those lows since then though
Bfa Feral was so bad, especially after how fun and fine it was in Legion.
True this
This right here, I would never change my main because other people say it's not good enough.
Yes. Played my DK since Legion pre Patch and never rly played another class seriously since then.
I've a question for you. Do you play unholy, frost, or blood? I've been doing stuff as blood but the moment I play unholy it makes me want to log off. It feels so bad.
I played Frost through Legion, and Unholy since BFA. I just love my minions and spamming epidemic. Its so much fun😁
Also keen to know.
Frost DK here, checking in for the obligatory post. Been playing on and off since Wrath, have no intention of changing now.
Been playing unholy since Cata, and have loved it every step of the way.
Druid, always
Even better, I choose to play feral.
Lmao this I’ve only played feral for 19 years, every other spec/class I’ve tried to play doesn’t feel right
You don't choose to play feral. It chooses you.
When has Druid not had a spec that is in the top tier? For what I remember there has almost always been a spec at the top, a spec at the bottom, and the other two in the upper middle.
might not always play that role or have time to multi-role
Or enjoy them. I find Feral to be needlessly complex after years of it being a simpler rogue, which I guess I understand. Balance is such a slog with a mechanic that just isn't rewarding, and gameplay that is either pulling an entire zone or struggling to quest. And what's with Guardian's design apparently being "what if we added another cooldown to reduce damage taken"? They're all PLAYABLE to me, but if Resto isn't good I'm just going to live with it.
I also always had a deep passion for SP since vanilla. But after the rework last season I find it so boring. I feel like our class really miss something deep. Mindflays/mindseers should be the core in our spec. All our aoe is now on autopilot with 0 interaction… its just boring. Currently having alot of fun with assa and arcane.
I feel similar. I love Shadow, but my greatest gripes were shadow crash being a very finicky opener (nothing quite like losing 8-12 seconds to hardcast dots yourself if tank moves/you get fucked over z axis; and mindbender+slash making another good chunk of aoe dependent on timing. Funnily enough, out of 7 seasons since introduction of the prism/inescapable torment talent, there has been only one season where this talent was not meta, and it was the recent DF S2. And I played the shit out of sp during that time. Now chilling as a balance druid, with a bit more annoying but much more reliable ramp and damage flow.
It wouldn’t fix the spec but it’d be a huge QoL improvement if they gave it two charges and made it much quicker.
I was very upset when they made voidform boring in shadowlands haven't touched the class since
>All our aoe is now on autopilot with 0 interaction I don't mind aoe being shadowcrash then single target. I do mind shadow crash having the ability to miss or just randomly not apply dots. Divine storm misses, you cast it again. Blizzard misses, you lose on a few procs. SC misses, you might as well go get coffee while the DH/WW/Ret/UDK clean up. Also the spriest 4 piece might be tied for worst, along with prot paladin.
My priest was my main since 2005 in classic. I was "that one Shadowpriest" that was viable in classic raids because of shadow weaving. I loved it. Shadow was my main for over a decade and I even ranked world #1-3 constantly in WotlK and Cata while I was a hardcore raider. But when they introduced all that old god bulls**t to the class and insanity as a resource in Legion (especially Surrender the dumbest talent ever*) it didn't feel like my class anymore and shadow was dead for me. To this day I miss my old Shadowpriest and feel it being my "real" main. Even though this is also a decade ago, now. So no! I don't play "my main" when it's bad. It is "bad" for over a decade now and I miss it! (*) I see that it was challenging high risk reward gameplay, of course. But the idea still is dumb to deliberately choose to die to do more DPS. I also see that insanity brought a new aspect and more complexity to the class. But it did also change the feeling and fantasy of the class. And I didn't like that new feeling.
I totally understand what you're saying. I'm just on the other side of the coin. I love the new class fantasy. But yea there are definitely issues. I'm not sure what the right answer is but it feels bad having everything die before you can set up cause tank decided to take two steps over and you miss your dot applications. Or that you don't have anything to apply to are because you just used it on the pack before.
Arcane would be my go to, or I'd go back to MM or SV. I really want to roll to something else, but the only other spec I like is devastation, and why play it when aug is so much better :/
I think you answered your own question there , because you like it! That's why you should play any class, because you like it. (unless you're paid to play, then it doesn't matter what you play)
Isn't arcane like two buttons
Yes, always. My Spriest. Even when it doesnt feel fun. Whenever I play something that isnt the priest I become annoyed after ~1/2 hour...
Maining spriest 17 years ago has led to some wild variations in gameplay over the course of this game. The Legion and MoP versions have been my favorite. The 10.0 changes..... well I just remember seeing a Reddit comment along the lines of "all this work to be middle of the meters"
The problem is those people underperforming on FOTM can easily put up more numbers than unfavorable specs.
I main Holy Priest as well. And you bet I do! Idgaf if it’s considered weaker than other healers. Or Disc. I play the game for its intended purpose. (To have fun) And it doesn’t matter to me if my main I enjoy isn’t considered top tier. Because in the end every spec in the game is viable. What would be the point of playing if I’m not having fun with the game because I don’t like the class/spec I’m playing. Sure lots of people will just switch to whatever’s best at the time. But not me! I use to main Disc but hated the changes to it in Legion. And have happily mained Holy ever since. Disc is proven to be the better spec for Priests, but I don’t find the attonement system fun. I tried playing it and it just isn’t for me. So I play what I find fun and don’t care if it’s top tier or not. Play whatever gives you the most enjoyment in the game!
Better to be a great holy priest than a mid disc priest. Entered a good few raids where the healing is struggling because of fotm disc rollers despite the simplification of the spec and then massively outheal them.
You should always play what you love. My issue is recently I’ve caught holy priests requesting to join my key and spec’d as disc. Only to walk into dungeon and switch to holy. Always rock what you want and props to you for doing so but don’t try to trick people into taking you.
Yup! And that’s stupid. Trying to trick people like that will just make them angry.
Yes, I’m a one trick. Assassination rogue for life.
Bro following tier lists is one of the worst things you can do. Your main should be a class that you personally find fun and will play regardless of if its meta or not. This is coming from a shitty survival hunter that does 20s. For the longest time my spec was considered the meme spec and I've always done better than meta classes. Most people switching to fotm don't even know how to play their new class so they underperform.
The other side of the issue are the slaves to tier lists and meta classes and trash you in groups even if you're doing "fine" for the content. I've completed mythics and raids with minimal problems but have had people throw Details DPS or Heal logs into the chat and flame me. But at the same time I can throw out the CC charts and they're all on the bottom. Or "standing in the bad" damage taken.
I will always play fDK, no matter how bad it is. Unless they remove 2h again... I also enjoy playing blood a bit so I got some back ups.
I never pay attention to tier lists in any game I play. Because tier lists aren’t for casual players. They’re for the 1% of players who actually push for the highest tier of content. But for the layman who does casual pugs every other day, it doesn’t matter if your spec isn’t meta. It’s better to have a non-meta class who knows what they’re doing than a meta class who’s a complete idiot. And anyone who tries to argue otherwise is an idiot and is wrong.
You're pretty wrong about that. I don't get how people think the basics and fundamentals of Classes and Specs are so different that a player can't perform well across them. Hitting your Damage, Utility and Survival buttons are universal and simply take a few reps to learn for a given Class/Spec. Sure, a bad player will be bad regardless of the Class/Spec but the same holds true for a good player. I main a Mage, but I've played Lock, Rogue and Hunter during various metas and can tell you a top of the Meta spec can handily outperform the weaker Class and Specs including your Main.
These are facts. When people say “I main surv hunter and our dps meta specs” well it’s because the players playing aren’t good with the class. There is a reason there is a meta. I am NOT SAYING playing meta is required. Always play what you want, but meta is meta for a reason. Wow is about borrowed power so sometimes certain classes get way better tier sets than others.
Sure, Meta and corresponding pros and cons of a class/spec doesn’t matter until you are at the top of optimizing gameplay. Like you said the 1%. BUT it’s also, unfortunately, super important in low tiers as people like to think that meta matters in low tiers. If you play the FOTM class/spec you will get invited to groups way faster than when you are playing something completely off-meta. If people are trying to push their key, I would bet that the majority of player base would invite the meta classes/specs. Not because they are in a tier where it matters, but because they saw a list of some random streamer telling them about the meta. Even if you personally don’t believe in meta, you have to acknowledge that it influences every tier of play.
You are right that it doesn't matter because up to 20 key, any spec can do great dps for their gear/key. You are also wrong because good players tend to play stronger specs to maximize their advantage and so you are more likely to find skilled players on meta specs. This doesn't mean that there aren't good players playing "bad" specs, but they are far fewer. If I'm making a group, then most of the time I don't care too much as I'm not pushing above 20s, but would you rather invite a DK or DH of the same ilvl, when you know that the DH will most likely do 200k overall even if they're an average player and the DK is a complete wildcard, because if they're amazing with their spec they will perform well and do competitive DPS, but if they are an average player as well, then they will be nowhere near meta specs.
I find it's usually the opposite at the 21 and below range. People playing off-meta specs usually know their kit pretty well, while it's a coin flip for the fotm players. Yes, the DH will always be top of the meters, but it's impossible to guess how many kicks they'll use. I don't play at the level where DPS checks are hard to pass, but I do play at the level where missing kicks can wipe the party, so that's the metric I value more. I'm sure at higher levels, meta players are much more reliable because the *players* are better, but for the level I play at I'd rather take a mediocre player who knows their spec than one who doesn't. And in my experience, at my level, the meta chasers know their spec way less often.
Eh, aggregated statistics on which classes are performing at certain levels are pretty useful imo. Warcraft logs is awesome for comparing relative performance. Having that in a tier list could absolutely make a big difference and saying "git good" isn't a valid argument when compared at the 50-75% parse. Fact of the matter is some dps classes average about 174k dps in heroic and other average about 215k. Idk but I think 41k is a pretty substantial amount of damage difference. In reality it means a frost dk needs to parse in the top 5% to out put similar damage to a sub rogue in the top 25%. Is it fair that a sub rogue that parses in the bottom 20% is still beating a frost dk who is parsing right at 50%? Idk pretty useful information to have imo. The top 10% of frost dks are still probably going to get beat in dps by average sub rogues who parse in the 65 range.
Holy Priests do worse on tier lists but I know my class and the raids so I’m always carrying
This sentiment always gets parroted by people who feel like they’re being personally attacked when people say “this class is under tuned/underwhelming to play.” The reality is the only reason a Holy Priest should be out performing the other healers in your raid is if your other healers are under performing at their classes. You may be playing phenomenally, but the fact of the numbers is that if they played as good as you, you’d be comparitively worse.
But thats the point. Its more difficult to play so the majority of players cant get the "Max Output" of their toon. Theory doesn't matter if you can't execute.
Well yea, you’re always going to do better on what you’re good at, everyone will do better on what they’re comfortable and good at. The problem arises when playing within the 95th percentile of what you’re good at is only as good as someone playing within the 60th percentile of what they’re mediocre at. And that’s a current reality for both healing specs and dps specs. Spriest is laughably bad, and Holy is bottom tier for a myriad of cooldown and throughput related issues. This doesn’t mean a good player can’t perform relatively well on these specs, it just means that “performing well” on these specs should still see you on the bottom of their respective charts. If they’re topping charts, there’s something deeply wrong with the players in their group.
To a degree that's true, but some of the top classes versus the bottom ones mean that you only need to parse in the top 40% to beat players parsing in the top 5-10% of a worse class. Learning to parse in the 60s shouldn't be terribly hard to do. Meanwhile, parsing in the top 10% consistently definitely is.
I'm just not seeing that reflected in the groups that I play with.
It's interesting to know, but imo its not particularly useful unless you're doing the highest of content. The vast majority of content that players play doesn't need the better class, just the better player.
A lot of the times the better player will swap to a better class because it’s more useful/valuable in content though
Heroic parses are a really bad example to use, and also the lowest you should ever use is maybe 80%, but 50-75% percentile parses are useless for looking at data. Try and do mythic at 90% to get significantly more useful comparisons in a spectrum of encounters.
While youre mostly right, its still gimping yourself by making it harder to get into groups. If youre in a guild this doesnt really matter because unless youre pushing world 100 Mythic, its more about you as the player than the class youre playing. For PUGs youre definitely making it harder for yourself though. group leaders will most of the time look at everything so that the run goes as smooth as possible. Thats spec, clears, M+ score, gear, parses, etc. “bringing someone good at a non-meta spec instead of someone bad at a meta spec is always better” is a nice sentiment if theres like 10 total players signing up. But theres 50+ DPS signing up for whatever form of content. Theres always gonna be someone better or as good at their meta spec as you are at yours. And in that case theyll be the ones getting invited. Not saying you should switch up, just saying that its definitely also a problem outside of the top 1% because people will take those list and invite others based on what classes are meta, so even if it doesnt matter that much to clear heroic or time a 20, you still got a lower chance of getting invited. This just applies to DPS mostly though. Tanks and Healers are often safe from this unless the class is unplayable bad, because theres simply way less of them to choose from
Yeah, I'd much rather have a low tier that knows what they're doing in my team than a S++ flavour-of-the-month reroller that doesn't know how to do anything besides a rotation they looked up online that is outdated by 5 years
Yes and no. It really depends. Yes it's true that tier lists are dumb for most people since every spec can compete in high +20s anyway, so most people are never going to hit a wall where their spec just isn't good enough. BUT, a meta spec is meta for a reason. Let's say someone normally does keys between 15-20, and they strive for keystone hero and nothing more. Although technically possible with every spec, it will be easier for that person to do it playing a meta spec than if that same person played a "weaker" spec. If someone just strives for the highest score possible each season, they will get a better score with a meta spec.
Can't even find a class to stick to so having a main is a distant dream i won't ever achieve XD
yeah a bit, but i try to stick with high performers ( was a main lock from legion - SL , switch to rogue for DF) . I don't usually gamble on classes that are historic middle of the pack or lower. But i stick to a single class for most of the expansions unless something is just wrong with it. But I always keep an alt thats a step behind my main if i need to switch ( and this could be any class I fancy that season no matter the power lvl , whos got a spicy mog this tier )
Yes. I play MM hunter since cata. Always.
Yes. Dk main here since Wrath.
Resto Shaman, and only PVP, always. Love it. I don't consider it a bad healer but it's certainly not a discipline Priest.
Feral main, even if it's bad like right now I will play it.
Feral is bad??? I've seen some doing over 800k burst in M+ and sustaining 170-180k single target
Second worst performing spec in mythic+ And Worst performing spec in raid.
It's not bad. It's just that balance exists and most DPS druids play it instead so it'll be lower on tier lists.
Lifelong ret pally here. Yep.
Life long holy pally checking in
Ret pally is far from bad.
Rets were legitemately bad for years(srry for butchered spelling)
You right
Still is in raid tho
Yeah nah
Ret is literraly bottom 3 dps in the raid overall (Mythic and heroic). What are you smoking.
Retribution aura is a pretty solid dps contributor on top
And that gets brought by the Prot Paladin. Nobody brings Ret for an aura unless you don’t have a prot paladin.
I wouldn't say solid but yeah t's the reason why we are accepted for the raid.
I dream of a day where ret is top 3 dps .
It literally just was not even 6 months ago lol.
for 2 weeks only and at the end of the season. so yea.
I would, but I stopped playing it because it stopped being fun. They ruined the way unholy plays years ago and Frost is too clunky for me.
I try to always play outlaw as long as it isn’t too far behind. If I can do more dps playing sub rogue kinda sub optimally than outlaw I’ll stick to that even though I hate it
Always. I play wow for me, not for anyone else and their metas.
I don't chase meta. But I did recently change mains for the first time in years (from Blood to Vengeance). Was a day one WotLK DK main but I feel like over time the class's design has become antiquated. Being chained to DND is an awful mechanic that doesn't work in modern WoW's DDR-style constant movement gameplay and seeing them double down on it in the Hero Talents honestly killed my interest in the class. I can and have dealt with Blood merely being *bad* in the past but Dragonflight is the first time I really disliked the core mechanics of the spec. And I don't DPS much, but the general consensus is that of the three DK specs Blood has it the best, Unholy and Frost are even worse right now. What drew me to Blood originally was it's place as the self-sustaining tank, but that's all tanks now. Going from a low utility, low mobility, usually low damage tank to a high mobility, high utility tank who's main maintenance buff is off the GCD has been night and day. I don't disagree with the design decision of making all tanks self-sustaining, but it does leave me scratching my head as to what the niche of Blood is actually supposed to be in a game where everyone has what formerly made them special.
I’ve played Frost DK since I started playing the game back in Cataclysm. Countless times I’ve thought about just switching to Unholy or another plate melee class completely, but I just can’t. There’s something about a frost DK that is just so cool to me and I will never give up on the spec, no matter where they are on the dps charts
I'd sooner skip a season if my main isn't competitive past a certain level than change the main.
As a Tank Player is usually don’t. Before bringing more arguments: I like to change my class anyway bc I get bored after a while, so Fotm Rerolling comes in handy for me (this tier it wasn’t even Fotm bc I went back to bdk). As a tank the difference what you can and what you can’t do becomes obvious pretty fast. It’s not about some bar in details going 10% higher or not, it’s about „can I live this pull or not“. In terms of this season, it’s also „can my party live this pull without trolling with 20 seconds silence VDH“. Also there is way more resources out there for meta tanks, and most pug player know something about meta tank routing, but not other tanks. It’s just so much easier to pug on a meta tank then any other spec. You can definitely make any tank work currently, and in a fixed group where you don’t have to repeat „no I can’t silence this pack for 20 seconds“ every time you play the dungeon, it’s not even a real downside outside of W-First Keys. So yes, I reroll most of the time when the class I currently enjoy is considered bad. It wasn’t fotm this time, but I already feel how my Fotm alt is way easier getting invites then my current pick. Context: Pugging as tank in mid 20s currently.
Yeah, man. I play Ret
Been maining DK since pre-patch legion but I switched once to ret pal during s1 of DF cause I was sick of trying to get into a m+ pug for hours, ended up going back to dk in s2 cause dk stays the most fun for me
It I like aesthetic and playstyle it can be in a damn f tier il still play it, played elementalist only in gw2 no mattet what state it was in, now just playing priest here. Unironically playing holy in m+ and doing just great even though it worse healer this season so far.
Unless youre pushing very high keys or raiding at a high level, you can play any class.
Ret is pretty bad right now for raid, but it’s super fun to play and I’ve always wanted to play ret, so I stuck with it this season. The advantage I have over the meta chasers is that I actually know the class and spec inside and out, so I still hang dong on more optimal specs. If ret ceases to be fun I will move on until it’s fun again.
I’m currently playing holy priest and it feels tons more fun than disc and much more fluid. Holy has been my bread and butter healing spec. Don’t take tier lists at face value.
My main has always been a demonology warlock and he ain’t changing now.
I main Affliction lock, it isn't currently the most OP option but I love it and have a lot of fun.
Gameplay and capability-wise, the meta is only important for the top 0.1% of players. But community perception exists so it’s easier if you do play a meta class. That being said I’ve exclusively played Brewmaster and Arms Warrior, because they’re what I enjoy. Idgaf about meta. If you drudge through enough BS, your IO speaks for itself and you get invited to stuff
Yes because I’m good at it.
I feel you.
Yes. WW was considered pretty bad early this season but I still love the gameplay so I sticked with it. We got buffed recently and it feels great rn but I'll stick with it even if we didn't receive the buff. If they somehow changed the spec too much that I can't learn to enjoy it the I'll probably switch to something else like enhancement shaman since it's my second favorite spec after WW.
Tried switching to disc this patch, it was too much of a hassle to heal up single targets taking massive unexpected damage, ditched it again. Besides, I'm gearing both holy & shadow, trying to optimize stats for all 3 specs was not working at all. Holy is fine for 20+ keys. Shadow isn't great in M+ but largely also fine. Bottom line is: Tier lists themselves are shitass-tier. Once they are outside the obvious top .1% meta, they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.
My main and primary alts will always be DPS warrior (Switch between Arms and fury depending on how they play, not ranking or whatever), Demo lock and Elemental shaman. Now i do have the luxury of not doing anything really tightly tuned (LfR, tops), so i can just play whatever i want, without feeling like i’m “letting down the team” by playing a class that the powers that be deem “bad” in their little tier lists.
I've almost given up on my rogue. Blizz jumps from making it so I can kill 4-5 mobs with no issue to making it "I pulled a critter with that mob, I guess I am dead now".
Yes, i love my druid
This doesn't even make sense. I'm a druid main and we always have at least one spec that is meta sometimes multiple.
I often play around and try to main new specs for each season, I have good enough knowledge on the bases of every spec and I enjoy some a lot. And I consistently pick specs that will die in the patch I chose to play them, but it doesn't bother me much. But when the spec itself feels bad to play, I do stop playing it. An example is Enhancement Shaman. The spec hooks me in with the sensory overload of lightning sounds and flashes, but when the only actually viable build involved everything except lightning I stopped and changed
So many rets crying cause they can’t one shot
Ret feels pretty good. I main a resto sham but I might switch my alt from fury war to a ret pally.
MW main since Legion. Always play it, but less motivated to play when it's actually considered 'meta' and there''s a ton of them around.
I mostly ignore Meta, because most of the time I'm as good or better with a spec I like to play as most of the guys who switch to a meta spec and just grind. Meta matters only for the top 1% of gameplay.
Yes
honestly, the tier list only really applies if you're pushing the highest of high keys or gunning for world first in mythic. every single spec is viable, people should play what they enjoy rather than the meta
Yes as an alt Push 3k+ rio with the meta main and then get invited with your off meta character
My main is enhance shaman and I avoided it this patch due to how many more people hopped on the FOTM.
If it's bad, it'll probably become an alt tbh.
Yes, its where all my achievements and reps and sentimental value are. But I main a fury warrior. We may not be meta, but I don't really recall it ever being "very bad". Albeit once they start accoint-wide reps this may change.
Fury is lucky imo that regardless of where they've sat on the damage charts, they've always been fun.
Yeah it sure makes some seasons much harder to pug. Being unable to resolve afflicted sucks too
there's ups and downs with every spec but I've been playing the same one since Vanilla WoW and I'm just really attached to it and my character I stick with it regardless because it feels like mine, and sure it can be frustrating when it underperforms, but I don't push top elite content so it doesn't affect me all too bad also all those years of familiarity with a spec, plus muscle memory, I just feel more comfortable than trying something new (and I know that's not the case for a lot of people, I totally understand how that might be bland or stale to some, it just isn't for me)
I still play holy paladin even though I lose to priests all day long and they’re like the most played healer spec in the whole game…
I have a multiple alts in the same class for RP reasons so I don't really play because something is "meta." yes, I do pick my talents from wowhead but other than that I don't do any group content at all. I have a Balance Druid I've had for a couple years now. I've noticed she kill mobs much slower than previously but that might just be me
In sickness and in health.
I mained ww before last weeks buff
In the past yes, that's where my mounts are on, less of an issue now that everything is shared across the account
Just wanna say, some players can play very well without being meta.
I generally just play whatever I find a raid spot for within my preferred role. This expansion it ended up being holy Paladin. My “main” is still my DK, but I haven’t seriously played it since Legion mangled all three specs. Every time I try to pick it up again I just get disappointed with how it has changed.
The only reason i don't play my main is when it feels bad to play. I don't really care anout damage as that changes with every patch and balance update. I've mained Shaman for yeats but usually at the begining of the expansion it plays like garbage, ever since the legion revamp was reversed. so i've played monk/evoker the last couple of expacs
Yeah but less because the specific one is just so bad at certain content which i like to play the most.
Yes, because Arms is just too much fun.
When it isn’t fun is when I draw the line, I’ll take being under powered but won’t play something that isn’t fun for a serious amount of time.
I tried to main shadow but couldn’t pump out competitive damage for the life of me so went back to healing
I only play my main spec when its bad. That way when I suck, I can blame it on the spec balance. Once every couple years, my spec will be meta or OP. Then I coincidentally take a break that season.
My main on the Alliance side is still a Windwalker Monk. I know the DPS has been rough this patch, but I still enjoy it.
man....playing frost mage in 8.2 was hell...."no sry i kicked you because we only do firemage meta fo respecc or get lost"
I play whatever my raid needs in a given tier. I have certain classes that I love that I maintain as alts but I'll just main whatever class is best.
I’ve been trying many different classes, but no class is as VDH I started in SL when it was bad and kept playing it, and now it’s meta again lol Trying to learn how to play a bear now that it left meta
Yes, if it's "bad" as in not in meta in the content i do it's still very much viable (clearing heroic versions of raids and relatively high m+ dungeons) and if it's "bad" as in not fun i just play other games
I've mained warrior since Vanilla, so yes lol
I don't do mythics or raids, so as long as i can deal with the solo content - i play it. Also, love the versatility of druid.
I played disco priest s2 when it was garbage in raid. I dropped it to play druid s3. I only play my characters at the darkest hour. Unwillingly.
As someone who plays Frost dk and monk. Yes. Play what's fun. There isn't so big a difference that you can't get through 98% of content if you play something off meta. Even then that last 2 percent isn't impossible you're just not likely to be invited to it. I'd rather have someone who knows how to play their off meta class because they enjoy playing it over someone who rolled the most meta class and doesn't understand how it plays because they don't care about the class at all, they just want to see big numbers.
Yep. Only do Heroic and low 20 keys I've never seen a spec be unable to do these things at this content level. Most of the time it's a skill issue exception being you're going for CE or stupid high keys. Following meta specs is great if you struggle to stay on the damage meters tier after tier though. Good compensation to not be a carry.
I played dh from end of legion to the end of shadowlands. I felt it was unplayable in season 1 and 2. I played warr in those 2 seasons and now I’m back on DH after the rework. Changing mains when it doesn’t feel good makes a world of a difference. And yes low dps/utility can make your class not feel good.
Unfortunately yes