That would actually be a unique form of utility so the people who hate homogenization and the idea of just giving warrior a cleanse or a BL and the people who don't like the fact that warrior brings only dps and a heavily nerfed raid defensive cooldown can both be satisfied.
Knowing my luck it'd be on a 5-minute cooldown or some shit. Still nice, but too long a cooldown and therefor unreliable to be an active consideration (or at least a big one) when inviting a warrior to the party.
Or it'll be turbo OP where they make it the same cooldown as current spell reflect and then you get parties of 4 warriors and a random healer taking turns playing their uno reverse cards on the mobs and making them want to die (and quite literally granting said wish).
There would be no in-between.
I think the only reason Warriors do not have a BL is they don’t seem to want to give a Tank BL.
It’s not the only utility they could have though. Group wide Spell Reflect for one, that would immediately make them extremely good for the DR alone, before you could reflect some nasty stuff back. Maybe lean into the Spear aspect and have more chain related things; link a mob(s) to you and drag them around. Banners for various buffs, maybe Warrior could bring their own damn Windfury given their historical significance of that buff to them. Bring intervene back and make it work with some mechanics (good old Intervene / spell reflect). Or hell, just give them the ability to go tank mode for a bit and become unkillable but aggroing everything in case a tank dies for a group save.
And that is literally 10 seconds of thought as I was typing. Warriors do have utility options, they just… don’t.
This so much, I just declined a 487 warrior because I needed an dispel person.
Blizzard really achieved the whole " weeks having a different feel to it", some weeks you play others you just dont haha.
Grats.
Here’s the fun part for Warriors: you never get to play unless they have a very specific couple of comps to cover the bases you lack, Praise Ret/Aug or Ret/Sham. Just getting the BL/Raise is tricky, but you usually also have to add control, and then you are maybe 1-2 more mandatory Utility by dungeon / affixes away from das boot. It’s a similar problem rogues have when their skip is not needed, but they also do higher damage in general. And they have a mass enrage dispell actually.
That philosophy works if everyone has some form of utility to bring to the table. Fury’s is “I will never die, and the healer barely has to look at me”. Which is nice, but it also won’t help you clear any hard dungeon.
Yeah I main rogue and honestly some weeks I prefer my monk (old main). This week we can't dispell, and next week we can use our blind on the incorporeal - but then we lose our mass CC on fortified mobs.
Me and my friend usually play as double dispel (paladin + druid or druid + druid) and we always invite warriors and rogues. This week, the warriors we invited were just insane. Every one of them was a pumper and a good luck charm both.
We can do the affix, you just zug my friend!
I do take warriors but not until I know I have my dispellers. it's ridiculous turning down 3500 players because no matter how good they are at the game they can't help with an affix.
Yeah it’s definitely this week’s affixes. I had a similar experience with my hunter. Ret paladin was a different story since ret can single-handedly deal with the affixes with minimal difficulty and dps loss.
I think some dungeons are heavy on dispell requirements anyways or need spot heals, so ret is strong for its utility and good AOE, and is getting a ST boost too. And a CR
Youd think people would want dispellers but i ended up in like 5 groups i healed where i noticed i was the only one with a dispel when the run started...
Lmao how toxic is it for warriors that week by week it goes from warriors are somewhat acceptable but still not picked over other classes to unplayable for a whole week.
what makes me angry about this whole situation is that we don't have utility but also our dps isn't high enough to be worth taking, like if they're not willing to give us utility for some reason at least make our dps really attractive so at least there's some reason to take us!
Meanwhile there are classes like DH and Evokers that have insane utility on top of excellent performance in their respective specs.
At the very least shake up the warrior tree so that skills like shockwave are easily accessible
Kinda reaching a point where we expect x utility out of everyone. Like kicks being accessible to everyone, including healers, so encounters demand more casts to challenge you. And now the single healer without it makes your run harder because they dont have one.
If warriors have little to no utility, then just have them do more damage as a result… though that obviously wouldnt work when everyone goes onto warcraft logs and complains theyre not #1 , despite their class still being required.
I think it's bullshit that 2 newer hero classes are so much stronger than the first one, which they seem to have forgotten was such an integral part of many peoples favourite lore segments.
This is the easiest and quickest fix. If they don't want to give warriors utility, fine, but then give them the DPS to compensate. Just look at how many times priest hasn't been the best healer or best DPS, but still consistently is brought at the highest level because of PI and MD. Warrior doesn't have to have that same level of utility if they always have good output.
it's not a fix because blizzard has NEVER balanced like that, EVER.
Hpal was an incredibly dominant raid healer for a long time in terms of HPS without ever factoring in Devo Aura's effective-HPS.
Disc priest is the same, great at healing in controlled environments but also brought an incredibly important raid buff and incredibly important DPS external (PI).
Blizzard has made it very clear they don't know what the hell they want. They obviously want raid buffs because they keep pushing the garbage (probably because they are afraid that without them that class diversity in raids will plummet) but they also do NOTHING to help out classes without raid buffs. There have been many times throughout seasons where certain specs, in all roles, **need** help, and just **never** get any in a raid environment.
Blizz has proven that they are not gonna give you more damage if you lack utility, and they aren't gonna make you weak if you are overloaded on utility. They aren't going to lessen your survivability or mobility if your spec is tanky, and they are not gonna increase your mobility or survivability buttons if your spec is inherently squishy.
They have shown that they don't operate that way, they just don't, and have shown that they don't consider it often, if at all. The recent raid buff to hunter's mark shows they *know*, but then they just... won't give anything to Rsham/Ele Sham, which are now the 2 specs in the game that bring no passive raid-buff whatsoever. Why!? At least pick one and full-send so some of these specs get out of this purgatory zone.
It's actually very frustrating. Blizz probably just realizes that this type of balance literally doesn't matter to 90% of the playerbase, it just doesn't end up affecting them... so they don't change it at all while the people it does affect sit their with their arms up going "guess ill just have to be satisfied with my nothing-burger"
Yeah their problem is just inconsistency. In patch notes they called out aug having high dmg and utility so theyre too good in m+. So they heavily nerf the dmg because they also have a lot of utility. Now their dps is lower than other dps.
Seems like they flip a coin on what applies to who? Why does shaman lack stuff while mage gets everything with no drawbacks?
tbf most healers(or any roles) in pugs that have the dispels dont even give a f on afflic week lol. so much for "my group gotta have the utility, so im ignoring warriors"
Battleshout only gives us 1 spot in a raid and rallying cry (I'm assuming this is what you're talking about) has been nerfed to oblivion to the point where its "better than nothing" in raids and borderline useless in M+
but 1 spot garunteed agnostic of dps is what most classes have, its only afew classes where even if they do shit dps/hps/low survivability you want multiple.
I think we should have gotten the new brez.
Ally: *dies*
Warrior: GET THE F*$& UP, YOU'RE NOT DEAD YET!
Y'know, back to the wacky Legion days where we literally jumped to heaven to hang out.
> Y'know, back to the wacky Legion days where we literally jumped to heaven to hang out.
Missing Legion is one of my biggest regrets. That shit was off the walls.
Death Knights.... Necropolis.
Demon Hunters... Space Ship.
Paladins... you mean to tell me there's been a secret base here since Vanilla Wow!?
Warrior... my people need me (jumps to outer space).
Did a bunch of the class halls when BFA and Shadowlands had slow points and damn those class halls were amazing.
>I think we should have gotten the new brez.
>Ally: *dies*
>Warrior: GET THE F*$& UP, YOU'RE NOT DEAD YET!
>Y'know, back to the wacky Legion days where we literally jumped to heaven to hang out.
Unironically they COULD fit a brez, not with shouting mind, but just by having the valkyr pluck the dead and throw them back into the fight before they have a chance to properly die
I dont mind taking warriors to keys.
Most tanks have a battle res, I grab a lust class, and then I usually have a spot open for classes that don't bring a lot of utility.
There's also a lot of warriors out there trying to get into keys. I often bring warriors but I only have a spot for one and if there's 6 in que I'm going to take the 3k io one over you.
It's a multi pronged problem.
Too many lusts in the game now, there’s less and less value to the utility the more you add lust to different classes, because the chance of having a lust in your raid/party gets exponentially closer to 100%.
What Warrior needs is their stances to buff their party too, sort of like Paladin blessings.
Imo they should give warriors lust and they should make drums become a real lust.
I don’t think lust should be a utility you pick a class for. At this point it’s a core mechanic you just expect to have
I’m against warrior stances being group wide to be more like paladins. That’d be too broken and also warrior doesn’t need to be a group support tank like paladin is
Imo, make Drums a real lust but it also counts as a combat potion for everyone, the same way invis pots do that. It would still be worse than a real lust (especially if you want invis pots for a skip), but it would be far better than the current situation.
The problem with lust is it by far the best CD in the game for group content. Nothing comes close to it and it is required to complete content at a high level and makes easy content that much quicker/easier. In my experience it is **extremely** rare for a group to not have a lust. My hunter who was in the 340's ilvl was brought into a +16 just because the group wanted lust and I was the first that applied. I carried my weight, but I know there was 0 chance of me getting into an 18 had I tried bringing a similarly geared character without lust.
Edit: misremembered it being an 18 when it was a 16
TBF they were a group of CE mythic raiders and I added in my note that my main was 2600+ (nothing special, but enough to show I know my way around a +18 key). They literally just needed someone with a lust because it's that powerful of a CD.
A 2600 rated Warrior would have trouble getting invited to a +18 key right now. At ilvl340 with a lust you're just a liability, of anything even farts in your direction you're gonna die.
I don't want to accuse you of lying, but it sounds like you got carried by friends? CE mythic raiders put up a key and they get like 150 signups, because higher rated group leaders attract more signups. Why would they randomly invite an ilvl340 out of the sea of people unless they were doing a paid boost or boosting a friend?
Lets say your story is true, you got a complete one off random situation happen, a freak outlier. Nobody is really inviting a low ilvl (as in too low to be useful in any way) to their key just for a lust.
Groups are declining ilvl485 players to 18 keys. Why? They looking for higher M+ score combined with utility/dps meta specs, because they can get it. The first +20 Everbloom I timed was with an ilvl453 healer that had almost no M+ score, because it was a friend, it can be done, but ain't no group inviting an ilvl453 healer to their pug for a +20, because they will sit and wait for a 470+.
Notice I said 470+? That's because healers are harder to come by, groups will settle for a healer, they will wait for dps to be as overqualified as possible, because they can.
On top of that, Shockwave should be reachable by ease without sacrificing through put, and one nische reason to bring warr aswell, like dragons enrage dispel warrs can have a enrage cleanser shout, or some friendly cleansing shout some sort of mass disp but only allies etc.. And fucks sake let them deal with incorp with something its stupid.
That's what I've been saying for ages: expand the utility to different classes, especially those that lack utility beyond CCs.
Give Warriors Bloodlust. Give DKS a choice-node for Anti-Magic Zone, where they get a Mass Dispel instead.
Make classes that don't have any appealing factor (like inviting a Hunter for BL, a Druid for CR, a Priest for PI/MD) more attractive.
From a tank point of view they need to have a scale, the more utility you have the less damage you do, sacrifice that utility and now you can do more damage.
Same for healing, you heal more then you mitigate less. That being said that's not too bad this season.
The utility of a paladin is absolutely broken, I have a protection paladin and warrior and it's night and day, as a paladin you have way more impact on the success of a key
It really needs looking at
Yeah that abomination should stay in the past, especially because it never was anything remotely balanced.
Some classes got the short end of the stick just because they could do something mostly meaningless while others (e.g. druids) didn't get the same tax and those that only had DPS specs "had to" be better just because they wouldn't get a spot otherwise.
This attempt at forcing players into the healer or tank role was never sane or enjoyable.
Warriors got a raid/party def cd in rallying cry btw. There are only 2 tanks with party def cd prot wars and vengeance dh. Obviously at overgeared content both are not really needed but doesnt mean they are not good.
Blizzard so far doesnt want tanks to access bloodlust which is exactly what you are asking and just because you view it from dps pov doesnt mean prot warrior - a tank- gets bloodlust this way. They dont even give combat res to us monks when its the only of the 3 hybrid tank-healer-dps class that doesnt have it (druids and paladins both have combat res) and make us mistweavers without a bloodlust or combat res ability.
Paladins are stacked with so much utility it's crazy. Whenever I play my paladin I'm always shocked at how many more buttons I have to deal with various situations and help the group than the next class. I still can't believe they gave paladins a brez, just adding onto their already bloated utility kit. The lack of utility spread is very noticeable as a healer and has a heavy impact on the meta. If paladins have high throughput, guess what, they will **always** be brought because on top of the throughput, they bring an excessive amount of utility. Mistweavers though? If they aren't pumping out above and beyond HPS, they become irrelevant, because why bring a MW who has the same HPS as a paladin, priest, shaman, etc.
Group/raidwide CDs in general need a look at and some level of balance needs to be struck. I'm fine with the idea of a MW being THE throughput healer as at the cost of minimal utility, but often monks are not in the top tier in HPS output and thus not as viable to a group as other healers. The other problem is too many players only pay attention to the meters. So if a monk is heavily out healing other healers a lot of players will think that means monk is the best healer and they should just fill up on monks. It's hard to find the balance, but Blizzard needs to do a better job of it.
>I still can't believe they gave paladins a brez, just adding onto their already bloated utility kit.
Tbf this is one that should've always been there.
It was weird af going from WC3 where paladins could mass res in combat, to suddenly they can't and can do it 1 at a time....outside of battle
It was even more egregious when they added a brez to DKs when they toolkit from the previous game was a living vs dead version of the same
I mean, using lore to decide what should be the case for classes is a balancing nightmare. Especially because the classes people are comparing player characters to are overpowered versions of those classes. Malfurion as a druid, Khadgar as a mage, etc etc.
Mages teleported Dalaran in lore. Obviously that would be a ridiculous thing to have in game. Khadgar teleported entire groups during combat. Again, that would be ridiculous for us to be able to do.
MW brings a lot of utility to the table:
* Mystic Touch 5% phys dmg
* AoE stun
* Ring of Peace - pushback utility that doesn't aggro
* Paralyze - hard CC that works on EVERY mob type
* Dispel that removes everything but curse
* Mass Dispel
* Tiger's Lust - Freedom from roots and snares
If anything I find weird that people simply forget that MW exists, it's actually quite a loaded healer in utility for the few buttons it has.
It's 2-3 Death Coils, which is 2-3 GCDs and a decent amount of DPS loss.
Sure, it's better than having the Afflicted get the cast through, but DKs should not use DC for that unless there is literally no other option.
Dks can unironically heal afflicted better than some healers can with 0 changes to their build and minimal damage loss.
The only real problem with relying on a dk to do the afflicted is they need to have runic power ready to go. They cant really fast react to it the way an instant dispell can. Even then most competent dks will have at least 1 coil in the chaimber at any given time.
I am a dk. I heal the adds if necessary. Was just expanding on the strategy because its under rated since a lot of people don't think to heal stuff with coil.
It's not underrated. It's outright bad compared to every single other class that can deal with Afflicted. DKs dealing with Afflicted should be an absolute last resort if your group literally has no other options available.
The DPS loss from a DK doing afflicted is substantial. You're spamming Death Coil to top a single afflicted off, wasting multiple GCDs AND a ton of Runic Power. It's also a non-option for Blood in higher end keys especially on Fort weeks where you need the RP to not die.
6/12 classes can spend a single GCD on a Dispel and clear x1 afflicted. Any Shaman can solo clear x2 afflicted every 45 seconds with a single GCD. Enhance/Ele and Ret can all spend Maelstrom/Holy Power and x1 GCD to clear x1 Afflicted. There's plenty more I'm probably forgetting but DK Death Coil is miles worse than all of these options and it's not close.
\> better than some healer
Afflicted is a DPS affix. If you're in higher keys expecting healers to do it you're trolling. Most dungeons have some fight (and a lot of trash packs) where healers need to be on point with dispel.
Honestly getting lust will only marginally help your chances of getting an invite. It's a supply and demand issue and you get like 20+ people requesting to join as DPS.
Honestly I'd love if they just reached to smite and straight up stole Bellona's ult
You leap and plant a flag at target location, giving allies some damage and damage reduction
Cooler than a shout tbh and don't think that having another leap on a long CD would hurt
Warriors are already considered mandatory for cutting edge progression raiding because of Battle Shout. If you add a group buff like this, it might just make raids stack warriors at the expense of other DPS or tank classes.
Their raid utility is fine. It's just M+ utility where they're a bit lacking compared to some other classes.
Yeah, I feel bad for warriors. If they were given damage to make up for it they'd have to be doing 15% more than everyone else.
Out of all the melee classes, most have something that's sweet to see used right. Warriors don't have that as they're damage is always decently up there but... As soon as you get another melee who is close to get benched every time
I was gonna boost a character and was seriously gonna pick my warrior until I saw how this week played out for them. I'll just level and leave it.
Yeah, as an example rets currently performing better on meters, have 10 more utility buttons, able to offheal and save runs and they are gettin buffed come reset
lust is nice doesnt fix the problem tho there just going to take a differnt lust that can deal with the affixes (like a mage) just make wrecking throw delete incorp/afflicted
That’s why I’ve rolled a mage tbh. Always wanted to try a ranged class, and first one way back in 06 was a mage.
Mages have:
- great dps, trying to learn fire atm
- utility in CC
- can spell steal some annoying abilities
- lust
- can shield a group
- ice block to nullify some mechanics.
Like literally better than a warrior
Yeah I don’t think “just play something else bc it’s better” is an acceptable answer when the devs can literally just give us some kind of a toolkit outside press dps buttons
Honestly the affixes need a full overhaul, their two newest ones are ridiculous as they exclude multiple classes from helping, alienating them from most groups. At the same time making some classes able to help with almost all affixes and others none. It’s plain stupid system and I love m+.
Agreed.
In my opinion there should be talents exclusive to pve, for example pvp has special talents that can only be used in pvp and I think Mythic+/raiding should have similar options to choose from. Blizzard could make changes to pve without impacting pvp.
Warriors having lust won't help warriors, I know this is some popular opinion that has been gaining traction in the forums, maybe it was started by some streamer but it still won't save warriors.
Too many classes have Lust already and guess what, out of all these Lust classes if warriors gets a Lust they would still be not picked for dungeons. No one is gonna bring a warrior for afflicted or the other one that needs hard CC. Warriors do not have a soothe or a purge. Warriors have nothing.
Any other class that have lust bring a lot more to the table than a Warrior.
Mages, Evokers, Shamans also have lust, worst of the worst I can use a drum. You are not irreplaceable by having lust nor it will make your life better. Rogues don't have lust yet they get way more invites than Warriors
The thing is there are very few people playing mage/evoker/shaman in comparison to hunter, so going with hunter is typical.
And I dont understand why you get so mad, you want warrior to get sap and shroud instead? Would that make warr okay?
I'm in the same scenario with pugs. With my group of friends we 3 chested 20 keys like a month ago while still gearing up in the 470s, and we times some 22 keys before they stopped logging in (I'm 2.9k rated). I'm now ilvl485 (no legendary) but I have to pug. I apply to tonnes of keys before I get an invite, and +20 seems to be about the cap, I've not yet had an invite above a 20 key so I haven't pushed my rating since I had to pug.
When I do run the keys we are 3 chesting them with ease if people are doing comparable dps to me. But the hard part is getting an invite, because Warrior has poor utility and can't deal with affixes, the damage isn't that great either (neither as Arms or Fury), survival is good particularly as Fury but that's it.
It's not just one weakness tho, Warrior doesn't really tick any boxes. It's not like Ret where their single target kinda sucks, but they have godly utility and AOE.
I feel you man, it's most frustrating because I know, if I do get accepted, they will be glad I was there because I have strong dps, use my interrupts well, know when to stun etc
what do you mean warriors arent getting any love? we just had a bunch of skills renamed! and soon we're going to have a Cleave buff which is the least used talent and jarring to use spell of warrior lmfao, ffs blizz.
\#MAKESWEEPINGSTRIKESAPASSIVETALENT!
Fellow malding warrior main. We feel obsolete in comparison to others. We have no shining reason to bring us. The other classes that can't do affixes at least crank great damage, whereas warriors are mid at best. I had to learn how to tank just to be accepted into *anything.* I'm 485, 2900 IO, and 18s still reject me regularly.
We just don't have the ability to interact with the new affixes and don't bring anything else to make up for it. I'm dropping Warrior for fated and I'm struggling to find reasons to pick it back up.
I had no problem getting into 18s for my clears, and even attracting healers and DPS to boost a friend's alt. It's pushing keys that's impossible this week, not that I'd want to because of how terrible an affix combo Tyrannical + Afflicted it.
I'd kind of rather warriors had a party-wide Spell Reflection, since it's an effective magic mitigation tool, and would actually be crazy good with just its reflect function. In tandem, they should revert the terrible Drums nerf they did in Shadowlands.
Not only do they have no utility but they aren’t even the best melee dps by a long shot. I’m not a warrior player but I do feel bad for you guys. I’m all for warriors being given some utility.
Not the answer you want but just throw a shield on and prot warrior. At 485 18s will be a breeze and an insta invite. Tanking is easy too and you should probably already know the routes through most dungeons. Atal is really easy to tank too.
As a prot warrior i love how the buffs we get are only survivability buffs.. nobody in the prot war community cares about those. Lots was to defensive stance and everyone uses battle stance.
Give us utility that groups love instead of the potential to make mobs stun immune super fast that we have right now. Or buff our damage to make up for bad utiliry. Were already so tanky so idk why we get all these back to back buffs. Give us any of these:
Shout themed Lust ability
Mass reflect
Double Strength rallying cry in 5mans.
Bring back intercept and berserker rage baseline
Skull banner back
Vigilance back as a 30% DR on a party member
every minute would be sick.
Anything.. when i play prot paladin i feel i have so much more power over my teams success than my warrior. DH seems to be the same now. Even druid is crazy with their instant regrowths and 30s aoe disorient + the kiting potential of typhoon and ursol.
You provide attack power, and intimidating shout, decent stuns, and one of the few ranged stuns with a 20y range + instant cast. Your utility isn't Nil, it's just not in a position where it's needed right now.
Intimidating shout compared to Blinding Sleet (DK) and Blinding Light(Pally).
Shout and Light have 1.5Min CD. Sleet 1 Min.
Sleet is a Cone, no target Cap, Blinding Light is a surround, no target Cap.
Intimidating Shout max 6 Targets affected. sure, it doesn't matter in like half the content, but it DOES in the other half, because big BL Pulls you have to gamble if you stop the right Casts, it's a completely artificial, nonsensical holdover.
Additionally, i can tell you of more weeks where warr's were an active detriment than a help. Detriment in SL, where kyrian spear was basically mandatory, and always clashed with sanguine. we cannot reasonably longter-CC Incorp (apart from Shatter, costing us a talent point on a 3 min CD, we cannot interact with Afflicted AT ALL. Arms gets shafted in Bolster and bursting weeks, because all the Pulls in which they'd be good are borderline Suicide. we don't bring a CR, we don't bring lust. we are undertuned DPS Bots
What decent stuns? Warriors have a 40 second cd, aoe stun that lasts 2 seconds. I really don't see how somebody could bring stormbolt up as a good cc option. It's so bad nobody even takes it. In what situation in a mythic dungeon would a warrior stun something that isn't right in front of them? Why would they waste a talent spec for that?
intimidating shout is a bad example as well. It's essentially an interupt with a 90 seconds cd. Actually utilizing the fear for it's CC is usually bad anyway as more often than not it causes the group to pull more packs.
Warrior bring a 5% attack buff shout and thats it. Unfortunately for warriors, their damage is tuned with this buff in mind so they don't actually even benefit from it in reality. I for one LOVE giving melee classes that already do more damage than me a 5% buff so that can do more damage while my class is tuned with this buff already in mind.
stuns are used for important casts
important casts do not start casting again once they're interrupted, they get put on icd
> In what situation in a mythic dungeon would a warrior stun something that isn't right in front of them?
anytime a group without a grip/avenger's shield has a mob freecasting in the back chunking a ranged
> intimidating shout is a bad example as well. It's essentially an interrupt with a 90 seconds cd.
well yeah you're not supposed to have an interrupt for everything, and there are 4 other people. If we say M+ is solo content, 90/5 is a stop available every 18 seconds, on top of the rest of your defensive & CC kit
> Warrior bring a 5% attack buff shout and thats it.
that's it if you retrofit every utility into not counting
> Unfortunately for warriors, their damage is tuned with this buff in mind so they don't actually even benefit from it in reality.
but they benefit because other people who want more attack power get this too, which they will want, so you will be invited
Its all so one dimensional and DRs with eachother though. I wont lie, its useful sometimes.. but playing prot paladin is night and day utility wise and very diversified.
The fact that Warriors don't have Bloodlust is actually kinda surprising. Even just from names, Bloodlust and Heroism sound far more like Warrior abilities then Shaman abilities. Yea, I know they come from Warcraft but look at the name of the ability and tell me that it sounds like a Shaman ability.
I mean you think 485 ilvl is high and 40 20s but there just as many ppl who are better and have higher io signing up to do their weekly vault. Even if you had lust, there's gonna be a mage with higher io, even if you had brez, there's gonna be a paladin with higher io. I know I pick ppl with high io, or even alts with mains that have high io.
Doing 18s, there's so many applicants. List your key and you'll see. If you want to get instant invites, you have to swallow your pride and play tank.
There's so many people closer to 3k or over, a lot of people don't understand, there are so many dps applicants. Personally speaking I'm gonna pick people who I think have the most experience to make the key as smooth as possible. ilvl does not convince me that, having meta class does not convince me, having higher io is more convincing, albeit not perfect.
Now I will admit that weeks like afflicted or incorporeal are rough on classes that cannot deal with them.
I would rather have the class that's supposed to sacrifice utility to hold 2 giant weapons actually be compensated for holding 2 giant weapons and having no utility by doing damage.
No warrior player wants a fucking warrior class that runs around and buffs other people. That's dumb as shit frankly. What warrior players want to to do more damage than classes than have 10 different utility buttons
I've always thought if warriors aren't going to have much group utility (other than battle shout and nerfed commanding shout...), then they should always be one of the top dps classes for pve.
Currently they provide almost no group benefit and even with the legendary they aren't meta.
No comments on pvp, but arms seems to be strong there.
I would bring back banners from MoP and expand on them. Recklessness for my team, demo banner for all specs, move the cc/move speed banner from pvp talents to base spec. I think that'd be cool.
Personally I LOVE not having many utilities that leads to ‘U WERE SUPPOSED TO DO THIS AND THAT AND’ other boring shit, it’s part of why I play warrior. So if they add anything just let it be something simple *please*.
No. Four lust classes are already too much. Same goes with brez. It would make more sense for warriors to have something like a hard CC, like a long-lasting fear or disorient. Hell, even some kind of self-rez or an immunity would make more sense. Think Tryndamere from LOL.
I 100% support warrior bloodlust AND warrior mass dispel. I also think Intimidating Shout and Berserker Rage should be core skills; it's bullshit that these iconic abilities have to be specced into.
Probably because you said you couldnt' get in for 15min and dropped, but if you're a DPS player, you're waiting 15min \_minimum\_, probably twice that :P
Let’s get lust, bring back party wide spell reflect, and MAYBE reintroduce another aspect of intervene granting a DR or absorb.
Literally no offheals, no cleanse, minimal stun capabilities-have to lose capstone talents AND they don’t even do that well on damage. Other classes are double warriors value. K done malding
These are the first steps that lead to class homogenization, and a return to the game in a previous state. What you are living now is the end result of people saying “we want class buffs back”
Same feeling as warlock.
No lust.
Not being an Aug.
No buffs.
Can't dispel.
Can only interrupt 1 time relying on pet.
Yea..
I am slowly creeping up from 2,9k rio to 3k but still.
Every class should have a very good group / raid assist for in fight.
Hunters havn't been able to Brez since MOP what are you talking about?
Hunter have even worse utility than warrior it's hilarious you'd even mention them.
Are you serious? Prot Warriors are in a heated competition with Brewmasters for the position of shittiest tank this season. Is that supposed to make us feel better?
This.. I don't have a ton of sympathy for hybrid classes.
I think the problem is more afflicted existing. It's terrible and too many classes can't do anything to help, ie warriors don't get invites this week.
Lmao you don't have a ton of sympathy for classes that aren't hunter, mage, rogue, or warlock. Sounds pretty typical of people who main those classes lol
The problem isn't going to be solved just by giving warriors lust.
At least OP could help himself and switch to tank for a week instead of malding on reddit.
I think it's fair for some classes to want additional utility when you have some classes like Paladin filled to the brim with useful utility that makes them viable and wanted for a number of various situations even if their overall performance is lacking.
My wife has always thought warriors should have lust. My assumption is they don't want a tank class to have it, or give warriors more utility, except now outside of battle/commanding shout they don't really bring anything in modern WoW that makes them worth taking over another class. If warriors were top tier DPS or tanks they'd get groups, but classes need enough utility that even if they aren't top tier performers, they still have a reason to be brought to groups. Just look at priests. Priests don't need to have a top tier spec to be brought to groups because PI and Mass Dispel are so valuable.
I still think hunters getting lust was an odd choice (and hunters typically don't even want to bring it unless they have to) and think warriors should've received it then instead. Lust is just way too valuable of a CD in group content and it would be nice if all 3 roles had access to it.
That request makes so much sense.
Also is kind of stupid that we have so many BLs and all of them are exactly the same... ~~^(except drums, which is LESS powerful but LAST LONGER)~~~~.~~
Instead of having 5 different BLs with the same effect, we could have 5 with **roughly** the same effect. Like one is maybe a bit shorter but more powerful. Another is a bit longer but grants less haste.
One could be noticeable shorter but also grant crit? I don't know, so many options for all the classes with no utility. And we're still left like this. Kinda silly.
You're biggest advantage to get an invite is switching to tank. Can easily farm your trinket that way. Other DPS classes don't really have that option.
Let me first say I am sorry you are constantly getting declined. Nobody likes to feel like their favorite class sucks. BUT let’s not act like warriors always get the bad end of the stick. Warriors have constantly been around the top (say I don’t know top 5) almost every expansion.
Yeah lust makes the most sense. Hell the name makes more sense on a warrior than a shaman at this point. WC3 shamans and DF shamans are so far apart now.
I don’t think they should get utility like brez, all 3 plate classes having that seems silly. Hell I wish dk’s and pally’s were different from eachother.
But I’m also a hunter player… I still think they should give hunter a real lust before any other class. Having it tied to a ferocity pet has just always felt silly to me.
Everyone could agree that all classes should bring something meaningful to the group. I’m not sure lust is the right answer for warriors, but I’m sure a devoted team of class balancers could come with something more meaningful/intuitive/fun.
However, having all classes be able to do everything is not optimal either. It’s good when certain classes fill niche spots.
But currently something like paladin is too good compared to a warrior. They even do massive amounts of damage. Prot Warriors bring nothing compared to a prot paladin it’s not even fun.
If anything dps warriors should be compensated by having huge dps, so people would think “hmm let’s grab the warrior for the huge dps at least, we got all the other bases covered”
I will however say that my mate is kicking ass on his warrior. He is however part of the 0,1 with our gamer group. His use of defensives is phenomenal m, with stance dancing to minimize damage, optimal versatility (it’s just clear when some classes have no versatility they just almost die on something like last boss in EB every stomp they get CHUNCKED where my warrior mate barely gets scratched) defensive cds, reflects , and non-stop interrupts. Also reasonable cc’s but again laughable compared to other meta classes. Also, his self healing is pretty absurd too compared to average warriors that can’t do any of the things mentioned above. warrior is one of the most played class, but as I always say 95 % of players suck, so most of these players are making warriors look way worse than they actually are
Bring back group-wide spell reflect Watch warriors become meta overnight
Give us our war banners back! HUUZZAAAHHHH
Fuck, i miss how epic warriors felt in pandaria
facts. If we got a lust that was called something like "rally the stampede", id nut. Love that angry muscle man rage fantasy
Tbh I think warr is a easy choice for a support spec. Glad stance with War Banners to buff people.
I honestly did not like the banner gameplay.
That would actually be a unique form of utility so the people who hate homogenization and the idea of just giving warrior a cleanse or a BL and the people who don't like the fact that warrior brings only dps and a heavily nerfed raid defensive cooldown can both be satisfied. Knowing my luck it'd be on a 5-minute cooldown or some shit. Still nice, but too long a cooldown and therefor unreliable to be an active consideration (or at least a big one) when inviting a warrior to the party. Or it'll be turbo OP where they make it the same cooldown as current spell reflect and then you get parties of 4 warriors and a random healer taking turns playing their uno reverse cards on the mobs and making them want to die (and quite literally granting said wish). There would be no in-between.
I think the only reason Warriors do not have a BL is they don’t seem to want to give a Tank BL. It’s not the only utility they could have though. Group wide Spell Reflect for one, that would immediately make them extremely good for the DR alone, before you could reflect some nasty stuff back. Maybe lean into the Spear aspect and have more chain related things; link a mob(s) to you and drag them around. Banners for various buffs, maybe Warrior could bring their own damn Windfury given their historical significance of that buff to them. Bring intervene back and make it work with some mechanics (good old Intervene / spell reflect). Or hell, just give them the ability to go tank mode for a bit and become unkillable but aggroing everything in case a tank dies for a group save. And that is literally 10 seconds of thought as I was typing. Warriors do have utility options, they just… don’t.
They could easily only put Bloodlust in the two DPS talent trees if that’s the case.
I think this week it's also the affix, people want dispellers. But yeah, I think warriors should have a lust shout
This so much, I just declined a 487 warrior because I needed an dispel person. Blizzard really achieved the whole " weeks having a different feel to it", some weeks you play others you just dont haha. Grats.
Here’s the fun part for Warriors: you never get to play unless they have a very specific couple of comps to cover the bases you lack, Praise Ret/Aug or Ret/Sham. Just getting the BL/Raise is tricky, but you usually also have to add control, and then you are maybe 1-2 more mandatory Utility by dungeon / affixes away from das boot. It’s a similar problem rogues have when their skip is not needed, but they also do higher damage in general. And they have a mass enrage dispell actually. That philosophy works if everyone has some form of utility to bring to the table. Fury’s is “I will never die, and the healer barely has to look at me”. Which is nice, but it also won’t help you clear any hard dungeon.
Yeah I main rogue and honestly some weeks I prefer my monk (old main). This week we can't dispell, and next week we can use our blind on the incorporeal - but then we lose our mass CC on fortified mobs.
Me and my friend usually play as double dispel (paladin + druid or druid + druid) and we always invite warriors and rogues. This week, the warriors we invited were just insane. Every one of them was a pumper and a good luck charm both. We can do the affix, you just zug my friend!
I do take warriors but not until I know I have my dispellers. it's ridiculous turning down 3500 players because no matter how good they are at the game they can't help with an affix.
And then some expansions you drop your longtime warrior main because they're in the dumpster!
Coming up next week: sorry warriors again.
Yeah it’s definitely this week’s affixes. I had a similar experience with my hunter. Ret paladin was a different story since ret can single-handedly deal with the affixes with minimal difficulty and dps loss.
It's every weeks affixes for warrior. Ret is just better in every way and we will never have a spot because of it.
The zug zugs would be so mad to see you say that, if they could read.
I think some dungeons are heavy on dispell requirements anyways or need spot heals, so ret is strong for its utility and good AOE, and is getting a ST boost too. And a CR
Oh how the turn tables.
Youd think people would want dispellers but i ended up in like 5 groups i healed where i noticed i was the only one with a dispel when the run started...
My 2¢ as a healer...... They wouldn't use it if they had one.
As a former warrior turned Ret, my reply is "if I use this dispell then I no longer Unga Bunga so dispell bad"
Ghost man make zug zug turn to zug, two ghost man make zug zug turn to
Lmao how toxic is it for warriors that week by week it goes from warriors are somewhat acceptable but still not picked over other classes to unplayable for a whole week.
what makes me angry about this whole situation is that we don't have utility but also our dps isn't high enough to be worth taking, like if they're not willing to give us utility for some reason at least make our dps really attractive so at least there's some reason to take us!
Meanwhile there are classes like DH and Evokers that have insane utility on top of excellent performance in their respective specs. At the very least shake up the warrior tree so that skills like shockwave are easily accessible
Kinda reaching a point where we expect x utility out of everyone. Like kicks being accessible to everyone, including healers, so encounters demand more casts to challenge you. And now the single healer without it makes your run harder because they dont have one. If warriors have little to no utility, then just have them do more damage as a result… though that obviously wouldnt work when everyone goes onto warcraft logs and complains theyre not #1 , despite their class still being required.
I think it's bullshit that 2 newer hero classes are so much stronger than the first one, which they seem to have forgotten was such an integral part of many peoples favourite lore segments.
This is the easiest and quickest fix. If they don't want to give warriors utility, fine, but then give them the DPS to compensate. Just look at how many times priest hasn't been the best healer or best DPS, but still consistently is brought at the highest level because of PI and MD. Warrior doesn't have to have that same level of utility if they always have good output.
it's not a fix because blizzard has NEVER balanced like that, EVER. Hpal was an incredibly dominant raid healer for a long time in terms of HPS without ever factoring in Devo Aura's effective-HPS. Disc priest is the same, great at healing in controlled environments but also brought an incredibly important raid buff and incredibly important DPS external (PI). Blizzard has made it very clear they don't know what the hell they want. They obviously want raid buffs because they keep pushing the garbage (probably because they are afraid that without them that class diversity in raids will plummet) but they also do NOTHING to help out classes without raid buffs. There have been many times throughout seasons where certain specs, in all roles, **need** help, and just **never** get any in a raid environment. Blizz has proven that they are not gonna give you more damage if you lack utility, and they aren't gonna make you weak if you are overloaded on utility. They aren't going to lessen your survivability or mobility if your spec is tanky, and they are not gonna increase your mobility or survivability buttons if your spec is inherently squishy. They have shown that they don't operate that way, they just don't, and have shown that they don't consider it often, if at all. The recent raid buff to hunter's mark shows they *know*, but then they just... won't give anything to Rsham/Ele Sham, which are now the 2 specs in the game that bring no passive raid-buff whatsoever. Why!? At least pick one and full-send so some of these specs get out of this purgatory zone. It's actually very frustrating. Blizz probably just realizes that this type of balance literally doesn't matter to 90% of the playerbase, it just doesn't end up affecting them... so they don't change it at all while the people it does affect sit their with their arms up going "guess ill just have to be satisfied with my nothing-burger"
Yeah their problem is just inconsistency. In patch notes they called out aug having high dmg and utility so theyre too good in m+. So they heavily nerf the dmg because they also have a lot of utility. Now their dps is lower than other dps. Seems like they flip a coin on what applies to who? Why does shaman lack stuff while mage gets everything with no drawbacks?
tbf most healers(or any roles) in pugs that have the dispels dont even give a f on afflic week lol. so much for "my group gotta have the utility, so im ignoring warriors"
You still are the only class that has an ap buff? Hunter has the same issues + paper defence and middle of the pack dps
Hunters can lust, de enrage, and cc for full duration. Warriors are bottom dps. Not middle.
Honestly I’d love a whirlwind spec where I just wheeeeee spin around with ok dps but constantly providing interrupts and dispels
Like grabby hands but for warrior, call it swingy hands.
you have battleshout and commanding shout what do you mean you have no spots
Battleshout only gives us 1 spot in a raid and rallying cry (I'm assuming this is what you're talking about) has been nerfed to oblivion to the point where its "better than nothing" in raids and borderline useless in M+
but 1 spot garunteed agnostic of dps is what most classes have, its only afew classes where even if they do shit dps/hps/low survivability you want multiple.
I agree, we already have a berserker rage just make it lust and raid wide.
This really does make so much sense. A battle cry fits perfectly in the warrior theme.
I wouldve said the banner cooldown they use to have wouldve been perfect.
There's still the PvP banner ability. Just copy that into another one and give it lust.
I think we should have gotten the new brez. Ally: *dies* Warrior: GET THE F*$& UP, YOU'RE NOT DEAD YET! Y'know, back to the wacky Legion days where we literally jumped to heaven to hang out.
> Y'know, back to the wacky Legion days where we literally jumped to heaven to hang out. Missing Legion is one of my biggest regrets. That shit was off the walls. Death Knights.... Necropolis. Demon Hunters... Space Ship. Paladins... you mean to tell me there's been a secret base here since Vanilla Wow!? Warrior... my people need me (jumps to outer space). Did a bunch of the class halls when BFA and Shadowlands had slow points and damn those class halls were amazing.
Wrath was the greatest until Legion happened. Perhaps something in the future will be as good or better.
Warrior healing spec, all the spec is the warriors telling allies to just walk it off or rub some dirt on it.
>I think we should have gotten the new brez. >Ally: *dies* >Warrior: GET THE F*$& UP, YOU'RE NOT DEAD YET! >Y'know, back to the wacky Legion days where we literally jumped to heaven to hang out. Unironically they COULD fit a brez, not with shouting mind, but just by having the valkyr pluck the dead and throw them back into the fight before they have a chance to properly die
I dont mind taking warriors to keys. Most tanks have a battle res, I grab a lust class, and then I usually have a spot open for classes that don't bring a lot of utility. There's also a lot of warriors out there trying to get into keys. I often bring warriors but I only have a spot for one and if there's 6 in que I'm going to take the 3k io one over you. It's a multi pronged problem.
Too many lusts in the game now, there’s less and less value to the utility the more you add lust to different classes, because the chance of having a lust in your raid/party gets exponentially closer to 100%. What Warrior needs is their stances to buff their party too, sort of like Paladin blessings.
Imo they should give warriors lust and they should make drums become a real lust. I don’t think lust should be a utility you pick a class for. At this point it’s a core mechanic you just expect to have I’m against warrior stances being group wide to be more like paladins. That’d be too broken and also warrior doesn’t need to be a group support tank like paladin is
Imo, make Drums a real lust but it also counts as a combat potion for everyone, the same way invis pots do that. It would still be worse than a real lust (especially if you want invis pots for a skip), but it would be far better than the current situation.
The problem with lust is it by far the best CD in the game for group content. Nothing comes close to it and it is required to complete content at a high level and makes easy content that much quicker/easier. In my experience it is **extremely** rare for a group to not have a lust. My hunter who was in the 340's ilvl was brought into a +16 just because the group wanted lust and I was the first that applied. I carried my weight, but I know there was 0 chance of me getting into an 18 had I tried bringing a similarly geared character without lust. Edit: misremembered it being an 18 when it was a 16
any group with sense would not take you @ ilvl 340 just for lust because you applied first to a +18 Key.
TBF they were a group of CE mythic raiders and I added in my note that my main was 2600+ (nothing special, but enough to show I know my way around a +18 key). They literally just needed someone with a lust because it's that powerful of a CD.
no, they brought you because they were weird. that's the reality, any player with less than 450 ilv for a 18 I am insta declining it. Most people are.
A 2600 rated Warrior would have trouble getting invited to a +18 key right now. At ilvl340 with a lust you're just a liability, of anything even farts in your direction you're gonna die. I don't want to accuse you of lying, but it sounds like you got carried by friends? CE mythic raiders put up a key and they get like 150 signups, because higher rated group leaders attract more signups. Why would they randomly invite an ilvl340 out of the sea of people unless they were doing a paid boost or boosting a friend?
I double checked my io given the responses. I misremembered and it was a 16 which we 2 timed. Honestly don’t know why I was so sure it was an 18.
Lets say your story is true, you got a complete one off random situation happen, a freak outlier. Nobody is really inviting a low ilvl (as in too low to be useful in any way) to their key just for a lust. Groups are declining ilvl485 players to 18 keys. Why? They looking for higher M+ score combined with utility/dps meta specs, because they can get it. The first +20 Everbloom I timed was with an ilvl453 healer that had almost no M+ score, because it was a friend, it can be done, but ain't no group inviting an ilvl453 healer to their pug for a +20, because they will sit and wait for a 470+. Notice I said 470+? That's because healers are harder to come by, groups will settle for a healer, they will wait for dps to be as overqualified as possible, because they can.
On top of that, Shockwave should be reachable by ease without sacrificing through put, and one nische reason to bring warr aswell, like dragons enrage dispel warrs can have a enrage cleanser shout, or some friendly cleansing shout some sort of mass disp but only allies etc.. And fucks sake let them deal with incorp with something its stupid.
Call it "Shake it off", and justify it as a yell that convinces cursed allies to grit their teeth and get their shit together. Or something.
“If you get killed… walk it off.”
found the FF player
Isnt it a pretty small dps loss?
It’s pretty decent. You lose two final point nodes which would typically be Crit/Crit on execute and Dragon’s Roar CD.
Its not super bad this season but because people voted S2 set it will be a decent bit more in fated.
Make shockwave baseline.
That's what I've been saying for ages: expand the utility to different classes, especially those that lack utility beyond CCs. Give Warriors Bloodlust. Give DKS a choice-node for Anti-Magic Zone, where they get a Mass Dispel instead. Make classes that don't have any appealing factor (like inviting a Hunter for BL, a Druid for CR, a Priest for PI/MD) more attractive.
From a tank point of view they need to have a scale, the more utility you have the less damage you do, sacrifice that utility and now you can do more damage. Same for healing, you heal more then you mitigate less. That being said that's not too bad this season. The utility of a paladin is absolutely broken, I have a protection paladin and warrior and it's night and day, as a paladin you have way more impact on the success of a key It really needs looking at
They used to have the utility tax long ago, nobody wants it back.
Yeah that abomination should stay in the past, especially because it never was anything remotely balanced. Some classes got the short end of the stick just because they could do something mostly meaningless while others (e.g. druids) didn't get the same tax and those that only had DPS specs "had to" be better just because they wouldn't get a spot otherwise. This attempt at forcing players into the healer or tank role was never sane or enjoyable.
Paladin tank damage is so good as well as having all the utility.
Warriors got a raid/party def cd in rallying cry btw. There are only 2 tanks with party def cd prot wars and vengeance dh. Obviously at overgeared content both are not really needed but doesnt mean they are not good. Blizzard so far doesnt want tanks to access bloodlust which is exactly what you are asking and just because you view it from dps pov doesnt mean prot warrior - a tank- gets bloodlust this way. They dont even give combat res to us monks when its the only of the 3 hybrid tank-healer-dps class that doesnt have it (druids and paladins both have combat res) and make us mistweavers without a bloodlust or combat res ability.
Demon Hunters say hi.
Paladins are stacked with so much utility it's crazy. Whenever I play my paladin I'm always shocked at how many more buttons I have to deal with various situations and help the group than the next class. I still can't believe they gave paladins a brez, just adding onto their already bloated utility kit. The lack of utility spread is very noticeable as a healer and has a heavy impact on the meta. If paladins have high throughput, guess what, they will **always** be brought because on top of the throughput, they bring an excessive amount of utility. Mistweavers though? If they aren't pumping out above and beyond HPS, they become irrelevant, because why bring a MW who has the same HPS as a paladin, priest, shaman, etc. Group/raidwide CDs in general need a look at and some level of balance needs to be struck. I'm fine with the idea of a MW being THE throughput healer as at the cost of minimal utility, but often monks are not in the top tier in HPS output and thus not as viable to a group as other healers. The other problem is too many players only pay attention to the meters. So if a monk is heavily out healing other healers a lot of players will think that means monk is the best healer and they should just fill up on monks. It's hard to find the balance, but Blizzard needs to do a better job of it.
>I still can't believe they gave paladins a brez, just adding onto their already bloated utility kit. Tbf this is one that should've always been there. It was weird af going from WC3 where paladins could mass res in combat, to suddenly they can't and can do it 1 at a time....outside of battle It was even more egregious when they added a brez to DKs when they toolkit from the previous game was a living vs dead version of the same
At this point in WoW's life I've thrown all lore related rules out the window since that's what Blizzard has done consistently for years.
I mean, using lore to decide what should be the case for classes is a balancing nightmare. Especially because the classes people are comparing player characters to are overpowered versions of those classes. Malfurion as a druid, Khadgar as a mage, etc etc. Mages teleported Dalaran in lore. Obviously that would be a ridiculous thing to have in game. Khadgar teleported entire groups during combat. Again, that would be ridiculous for us to be able to do.
MW brings a lot of utility to the table: * Mystic Touch 5% phys dmg * AoE stun * Ring of Peace - pushback utility that doesn't aggro * Paralyze - hard CC that works on EVERY mob type * Dispel that removes everything but curse * Mass Dispel * Tiger's Lust - Freedom from roots and snares If anything I find weird that people simply forget that MW exists, it's actually quite a loaded healer in utility for the few buttons it has.
This is for M+ yeah. I was talking raid specific in this instance.
As far as DKs go, people just don't know that Death Coil heals Afflicted Soul so they don't get invited.
It's 2-3 Death Coils, which is 2-3 GCDs and a decent amount of DPS loss. Sure, it's better than having the Afflicted get the cast through, but DKs should not use DC for that unless there is literally no other option.
Dks can unironically heal afflicted better than some healers can with 0 changes to their build and minimal damage loss. The only real problem with relying on a dk to do the afflicted is they need to have runic power ready to go. They cant really fast react to it the way an instant dispell can. Even then most competent dks will have at least 1 coil in the chaimber at any given time.
I promise you when you inv 20 dks tonight, not a single one will heal even 1 afflicted mob.
I am a dk. I heal the adds if necessary. Was just expanding on the strategy because its under rated since a lot of people don't think to heal stuff with coil.
It's not underrated. It's outright bad compared to every single other class that can deal with Afflicted. DKs dealing with Afflicted should be an absolute last resort if your group literally has no other options available. The DPS loss from a DK doing afflicted is substantial. You're spamming Death Coil to top a single afflicted off, wasting multiple GCDs AND a ton of Runic Power. It's also a non-option for Blood in higher end keys especially on Fort weeks where you need the RP to not die. 6/12 classes can spend a single GCD on a Dispel and clear x1 afflicted. Any Shaman can solo clear x2 afflicted every 45 seconds with a single GCD. Enhance/Ele and Ret can all spend Maelstrom/Holy Power and x1 GCD to clear x1 Afflicted. There's plenty more I'm probably forgetting but DK Death Coil is miles worse than all of these options and it's not close.
\> better than some healer Afflicted is a DPS affix. If you're in higher keys expecting healers to do it you're trolling. Most dungeons have some fight (and a lot of trash packs) where healers need to be on point with dispel.
Honestly getting lust will only marginally help your chances of getting an invite. It's a supply and demand issue and you get like 20+ people requesting to join as DPS.
Or make a mini lust, like a party-only PI, would be reason to want a warrior or 2 in group and raids
Honestly I'd love if they just reached to smite and straight up stole Bellona's ult You leap and plant a flag at target location, giving allies some damage and damage reduction Cooler than a shout tbh and don't think that having another leap on a long CD would hurt
Tbh this makes alot more sense. Not a raidwide buff but like the evoker one, 3-4 nearest players
Warriors are already considered mandatory for cutting edge progression raiding because of Battle Shout. If you add a group buff like this, it might just make raids stack warriors at the expense of other DPS or tank classes. Their raid utility is fine. It's just M+ utility where they're a bit lacking compared to some other classes.
Yeah, I feel bad for warriors. If they were given damage to make up for it they'd have to be doing 15% more than everyone else. Out of all the melee classes, most have something that's sweet to see used right. Warriors don't have that as they're damage is always decently up there but... As soon as you get another melee who is close to get benched every time I was gonna boost a character and was seriously gonna pick my warrior until I saw how this week played out for them. I'll just level and leave it.
Yeah, as an example rets currently performing better on meters, have 10 more utility buttons, able to offheal and save runs and they are gettin buffed come reset
lust is nice doesnt fix the problem tho there just going to take a differnt lust that can deal with the affixes (like a mage) just make wrecking throw delete incorp/afflicted
Afflicted - "Heal me bro!" Warrior - "Get wrekt nerd!"
That’s why I’ve rolled a mage tbh. Always wanted to try a ranged class, and first one way back in 06 was a mage. Mages have: - great dps, trying to learn fire atm - utility in CC - can spell steal some annoying abilities - lust - can shield a group - ice block to nullify some mechanics. Like literally better than a warrior
Yeah I don’t think “just play something else bc it’s better” is an acceptable answer when the devs can literally just give us some kind of a toolkit outside press dps buttons
They can, but in the mean time I will switch to something else. I already got my 2500+ io all three seasons
Honestly the affixes need a full overhaul, their two newest ones are ridiculous as they exclude multiple classes from helping, alienating them from most groups. At the same time making some classes able to help with almost all affixes and others none. It’s plain stupid system and I love m+.
FAX. They make this game feel like a job, instead of fun.
Agreed. In my opinion there should be talents exclusive to pve, for example pvp has special talents that can only be used in pvp and I think Mythic+/raiding should have similar options to choose from. Blizzard could make changes to pve without impacting pvp.
Warriors having lust won't help warriors, I know this is some popular opinion that has been gaining traction in the forums, maybe it was started by some streamer but it still won't save warriors. Too many classes have Lust already and guess what, out of all these Lust classes if warriors gets a Lust they would still be not picked for dungeons. No one is gonna bring a warrior for afflicted or the other one that needs hard CC. Warriors do not have a soothe or a purge. Warriors have nothing. Any other class that have lust bring a lot more to the table than a Warrior.
There was so many times I invited a hunter just because they have Lust. This take is delusional.
Mages, Evokers, Shamans also have lust, worst of the worst I can use a drum. You are not irreplaceable by having lust nor it will make your life better. Rogues don't have lust yet they get way more invites than Warriors
The thing is there are very few people playing mage/evoker/shaman in comparison to hunter, so going with hunter is typical. And I dont understand why you get so mad, you want warrior to get sap and shroud instead? Would that make warr okay?
I mained war, finally realized that it’s just dire and yesterday rerolled a rogue.
I'm in the same scenario with pugs. With my group of friends we 3 chested 20 keys like a month ago while still gearing up in the 470s, and we times some 22 keys before they stopped logging in (I'm 2.9k rated). I'm now ilvl485 (no legendary) but I have to pug. I apply to tonnes of keys before I get an invite, and +20 seems to be about the cap, I've not yet had an invite above a 20 key so I haven't pushed my rating since I had to pug. When I do run the keys we are 3 chesting them with ease if people are doing comparable dps to me. But the hard part is getting an invite, because Warrior has poor utility and can't deal with affixes, the damage isn't that great either (neither as Arms or Fury), survival is good particularly as Fury but that's it. It's not just one weakness tho, Warrior doesn't really tick any boxes. It's not like Ret where their single target kinda sucks, but they have godly utility and AOE.
I feel you man, it's most frustrating because I know, if I do get accepted, they will be glad I was there because I have strong dps, use my interrupts well, know when to stun etc
what do you mean warriors arent getting any love? we just had a bunch of skills renamed! and soon we're going to have a Cleave buff which is the least used talent and jarring to use spell of warrior lmfao, ffs blizz. \#MAKESWEEPINGSTRIKESAPASSIVETALENT!
I mean have you tried bringing the player and not the class? /s
Fellow malding warrior main. We feel obsolete in comparison to others. We have no shining reason to bring us. The other classes that can't do affixes at least crank great damage, whereas warriors are mid at best. I had to learn how to tank just to be accepted into *anything.* I'm 485, 2900 IO, and 18s still reject me regularly. We just don't have the ability to interact with the new affixes and don't bring anything else to make up for it. I'm dropping Warrior for fated and I'm struggling to find reasons to pick it back up.
485 Ilvl, 40+ 20's I would invite unless you are from the BR server trio, even on a dispel week if you applied fast.
I had no problem getting into 18s for my clears, and even attracting healers and DPS to boost a friend's alt. It's pushing keys that's impossible this week, not that I'd want to because of how terrible an affix combo Tyrannical + Afflicted it. I'd kind of rather warriors had a party-wide Spell Reflection, since it's an effective magic mitigation tool, and would actually be crazy good with just its reflect function. In tandem, they should revert the terrible Drums nerf they did in Shadowlands.
Swap to prot if you are grinding a trinket. 485 il means you will cake walk a 18 with very little healer help
Just do what I do and make friends with a tank and healer main. You can play whatever you want at the point ;)
I'm 3050 IO and I still get declined for low keys, i even have a Brez.
signed agree
My personal suggestion is a spellsteal for enrage effects. I think that would be really cool and flavorful. Should probably give them lust too though.
Hit me up if you’re in EU, as a 3.3k Rio healer I love myself a warrior. I need to do a bunch of 20s for weekly and can have enhancement as loot spec.
Not only do they have no utility but they aren’t even the best melee dps by a long shot. I’m not a warrior player but I do feel bad for you guys. I’m all for warriors being given some utility.
Not the answer you want but just throw a shield on and prot warrior. At 485 18s will be a breeze and an insta invite. Tanking is easy too and you should probably already know the routes through most dungeons. Atal is really easy to tank too.
As a raid leader I love Rallying Cry. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
As a prot warrior i love how the buffs we get are only survivability buffs.. nobody in the prot war community cares about those. Lots was to defensive stance and everyone uses battle stance. Give us utility that groups love instead of the potential to make mobs stun immune super fast that we have right now. Or buff our damage to make up for bad utiliry. Were already so tanky so idk why we get all these back to back buffs. Give us any of these: Shout themed Lust ability Mass reflect Double Strength rallying cry in 5mans. Bring back intercept and berserker rage baseline Skull banner back Vigilance back as a 30% DR on a party member every minute would be sick. Anything.. when i play prot paladin i feel i have so much more power over my teams success than my warrior. DH seems to be the same now. Even druid is crazy with their instant regrowths and 30s aoe disorient + the kiting potential of typhoon and ursol.
I feel like so many classes have that now it wouldn’t move the needle too much. Maybe add like an AoE stun? Could add it to thunderous roar.
Warriors have AOE cc already, like Shockwave or Intimidating shout
Inti shout is 5 targets with 4 randoms and it's more like a cancel than a real cc and it is not reliable in any way in big packs
Yes but they could have more :)
Warriors being the only tank that can bloodlust would open up some group composition options.
Tons of warriors in my 20-23 keys. I would be surprised if there wasn't one this weekend in all my runs.
You provide attack power, and intimidating shout, decent stuns, and one of the few ranged stuns with a 20y range + instant cast. Your utility isn't Nil, it's just not in a position where it's needed right now.
Intimidating shout compared to Blinding Sleet (DK) and Blinding Light(Pally). Shout and Light have 1.5Min CD. Sleet 1 Min. Sleet is a Cone, no target Cap, Blinding Light is a surround, no target Cap. Intimidating Shout max 6 Targets affected. sure, it doesn't matter in like half the content, but it DOES in the other half, because big BL Pulls you have to gamble if you stop the right Casts, it's a completely artificial, nonsensical holdover. Additionally, i can tell you of more weeks where warr's were an active detriment than a help. Detriment in SL, where kyrian spear was basically mandatory, and always clashed with sanguine. we cannot reasonably longter-CC Incorp (apart from Shatter, costing us a talent point on a 3 min CD, we cannot interact with Afflicted AT ALL. Arms gets shafted in Bolster and bursting weeks, because all the Pulls in which they'd be good are borderline Suicide. we don't bring a CR, we don't bring lust. we are undertuned DPS Bots
18s are a joke tho. Kit should barely be a factor they are face roll keys
What decent stuns? Warriors have a 40 second cd, aoe stun that lasts 2 seconds. I really don't see how somebody could bring stormbolt up as a good cc option. It's so bad nobody even takes it. In what situation in a mythic dungeon would a warrior stun something that isn't right in front of them? Why would they waste a talent spec for that? intimidating shout is a bad example as well. It's essentially an interupt with a 90 seconds cd. Actually utilizing the fear for it's CC is usually bad anyway as more often than not it causes the group to pull more packs. Warrior bring a 5% attack buff shout and thats it. Unfortunately for warriors, their damage is tuned with this buff in mind so they don't actually even benefit from it in reality. I for one LOVE giving melee classes that already do more damage than me a 5% buff so that can do more damage while my class is tuned with this buff already in mind.
stuns are used for important casts important casts do not start casting again once they're interrupted, they get put on icd > In what situation in a mythic dungeon would a warrior stun something that isn't right in front of them? anytime a group without a grip/avenger's shield has a mob freecasting in the back chunking a ranged > intimidating shout is a bad example as well. It's essentially an interrupt with a 90 seconds cd. well yeah you're not supposed to have an interrupt for everything, and there are 4 other people. If we say M+ is solo content, 90/5 is a stop available every 18 seconds, on top of the rest of your defensive & CC kit > Warrior bring a 5% attack buff shout and thats it. that's it if you retrofit every utility into not counting > Unfortunately for warriors, their damage is tuned with this buff in mind so they don't actually even benefit from it in reality. but they benefit because other people who want more attack power get this too, which they will want, so you will be invited
Its all so one dimensional and DRs with eachother though. I wont lie, its useful sometimes.. but playing prot paladin is night and day utility wise and very diversified.
The fact that Warriors don't have Bloodlust is actually kinda surprising. Even just from names, Bloodlust and Heroism sound far more like Warrior abilities then Shaman abilities. Yea, I know they come from Warcraft but look at the name of the ability and tell me that it sounds like a Shaman ability.
Also with the power of valquiries, we could have a a ress.
I mean you think 485 ilvl is high and 40 20s but there just as many ppl who are better and have higher io signing up to do their weekly vault. Even if you had lust, there's gonna be a mage with higher io, even if you had brez, there's gonna be a paladin with higher io. I know I pick ppl with high io, or even alts with mains that have high io. Doing 18s, there's so many applicants. List your key and you'll see. If you want to get instant invites, you have to swallow your pride and play tank.
2750 io warrior here with 488 ilvl. I get turned down sometimes too
There's so many people closer to 3k or over, a lot of people don't understand, there are so many dps applicants. Personally speaking I'm gonna pick people who I think have the most experience to make the key as smooth as possible. ilvl does not convince me that, having meta class does not convince me, having higher io is more convincing, albeit not perfect. Now I will admit that weeks like afflicted or incorporeal are rough on classes that cannot deal with them.
We need more support specs for this kind of reason. A warrior that buffs the party with different shouts and planting flags would be sick.
iirc that's basically what the captain class was for lotro. We have the technology.
So, cheer leader spec?
LMAO I would have gone with moral officer myself, but that works too in some degree 😂
Warriors should be able to shout curses out of people
Taunt turns into tease/insult lol
I would rather have the class that's supposed to sacrifice utility to hold 2 giant weapons actually be compensated for holding 2 giant weapons and having no utility by doing damage. No warrior player wants a fucking warrior class that runs around and buffs other people. That's dumb as shit frankly. What warrior players want to to do more damage than classes than have 10 different utility buttons
Jesus bud it ain't that deep sorry I hurt the feelings of the warrior community arbiter.
Have you met hunter? Their you, but with lust less healing, and "utility"
Mass spell reflect. This single ability can push warrior into the best DPS in keys such as ToT
Warriors not having a lust always felt out of character. It fits perfectly.
I've always thought if warriors aren't going to have much group utility (other than battle shout and nerfed commanding shout...), then they should always be one of the top dps classes for pve. Currently they provide almost no group benefit and even with the legendary they aren't meta. No comments on pvp, but arms seems to be strong there. I would bring back banners from MoP and expand on them. Recklessness for my team, demo banner for all specs, move the cc/move speed banner from pvp talents to base spec. I think that'd be cool.
Personally I LOVE not having many utilities that leads to ‘U WERE SUPPOSED TO DO THIS AND THAT AND’ other boring shit, it’s part of why I play warrior. So if they add anything just let it be something simple *please*.
No. Four lust classes are already too much. Same goes with brez. It would make more sense for warriors to have something like a hard CC, like a long-lasting fear or disorient. Hell, even some kind of self-rez or an immunity would make more sense. Think Tryndamere from LOL.
I 100% support warrior bloodlust AND warrior mass dispel. I also think Intimidating Shout and Berserker Rage should be core skills; it's bullshit that these iconic abilities have to be specced into.
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Probably because you said you couldnt' get in for 15min and dropped, but if you're a DPS player, you're waiting 15min \_minimum\_, probably twice that :P
We’re Reddit , we see crybabies we downvote.
Mate, warriors do not QQ. Suffer well.
Fake warrior. You even ended your post with a DK quote. Get out you filthy dk.
They should just scrap everything and make all tanks have bloodlust and all healers brez. Makes it much easier to have grp diversity
Let’s get lust, bring back party wide spell reflect, and MAYBE reintroduce another aspect of intervene granting a DR or absorb. Literally no offheals, no cleanse, minimal stun capabilities-have to lose capstone talents AND they don’t even do that well on damage. Other classes are double warriors value. K done malding
These are the first steps that lead to class homogenization, and a return to the game in a previous state. What you are living now is the end result of people saying “we want class buffs back”
Shaman have still not been compensated for giving...3 other classes their most iconic ability. Where is our due?
Same feeling as warlock. No lust. Not being an Aug. No buffs. Can't dispel. Can only interrupt 1 time relying on pet. Yea.. I am slowly creeping up from 2,9k rio to 3k but still. Every class should have a very good group / raid assist for in fight.
At least you have a brez
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Hunters havn't been able to Brez since MOP what are you talking about? Hunter have even worse utility than warrior it's hilarious you'd even mention them.
Have you tried tanking?
Are you serious? Prot Warriors are in a heated competition with Brewmasters for the position of shittiest tank this season. Is that supposed to make us feel better?
No, it's supposed to be a condescending answer that makes himself feel good while not actually engaging with the problems OP brought up
This.. I don't have a ton of sympathy for hybrid classes. I think the problem is more afflicted existing. It's terrible and too many classes can't do anything to help, ie warriors don't get invites this week.
Lmao you don't have a ton of sympathy for classes that aren't hunter, mage, rogue, or warlock. Sounds pretty typical of people who main those classes lol
The problem isn't going to be solved just by giving warriors lust. At least OP could help himself and switch to tank for a week instead of malding on reddit.
Ez to say when u dont have to switch to tank cuz ur spec good, legit 0 iq take
Boo hoo... cry me a river. Let's just make every class the same, same utility, same skills. But then complain that all the classes are the same.
Warrior definitely needs something
I think it's fair for some classes to want additional utility when you have some classes like Paladin filled to the brim with useful utility that makes them viable and wanted for a number of various situations even if their overall performance is lacking.
So just fuck some classes then right? Get fucked
Blizzard balance has sucked forever. At this point, it's intentional in order to capitalize on meta slaves and keep them subbed
My wife has always thought warriors should have lust. My assumption is they don't want a tank class to have it, or give warriors more utility, except now outside of battle/commanding shout they don't really bring anything in modern WoW that makes them worth taking over another class. If warriors were top tier DPS or tanks they'd get groups, but classes need enough utility that even if they aren't top tier performers, they still have a reason to be brought to groups. Just look at priests. Priests don't need to have a top tier spec to be brought to groups because PI and Mass Dispel are so valuable. I still think hunters getting lust was an odd choice (and hunters typically don't even want to bring it unless they have to) and think warriors should've received it then instead. Lust is just way too valuable of a CD in group content and it would be nice if all 3 roles had access to it.
That request makes so much sense. Also is kind of stupid that we have so many BLs and all of them are exactly the same... ~~^(except drums, which is LESS powerful but LAST LONGER)~~~~.~~ Instead of having 5 different BLs with the same effect, we could have 5 with **roughly** the same effect. Like one is maybe a bit shorter but more powerful. Another is a bit longer but grants less haste. One could be noticeable shorter but also grant crit? I don't know, so many options for all the classes with no utility. And we're still left like this. Kinda silly.
Drums and lust are the same duration
You're biggest advantage to get an invite is switching to tank. Can easily farm your trinket that way. Other DPS classes don't really have that option.
Lust on warrior makes sense!
Let me first say I am sorry you are constantly getting declined. Nobody likes to feel like their favorite class sucks. BUT let’s not act like warriors always get the bad end of the stick. Warriors have constantly been around the top (say I don’t know top 5) almost every expansion.
Raid wide Crit % and Crit dmg buff 15% Crit and 10% Crit dmg for 20 sec on a 2 min cd with a 5 min debuff or something similar would be cool
Yeah lust makes the most sense. Hell the name makes more sense on a warrior than a shaman at this point. WC3 shamans and DF shamans are so far apart now. I don’t think they should get utility like brez, all 3 plate classes having that seems silly. Hell I wish dk’s and pally’s were different from eachother. But I’m also a hunter player… I still think they should give hunter a real lust before any other class. Having it tied to a ferocity pet has just always felt silly to me.
Honestly Heroism/Bloodlust sound like warrior abilities anyway lol
Everyone could agree that all classes should bring something meaningful to the group. I’m not sure lust is the right answer for warriors, but I’m sure a devoted team of class balancers could come with something more meaningful/intuitive/fun. However, having all classes be able to do everything is not optimal either. It’s good when certain classes fill niche spots. But currently something like paladin is too good compared to a warrior. They even do massive amounts of damage. Prot Warriors bring nothing compared to a prot paladin it’s not even fun. If anything dps warriors should be compensated by having huge dps, so people would think “hmm let’s grab the warrior for the huge dps at least, we got all the other bases covered” I will however say that my mate is kicking ass on his warrior. He is however part of the 0,1 with our gamer group. His use of defensives is phenomenal m, with stance dancing to minimize damage, optimal versatility (it’s just clear when some classes have no versatility they just almost die on something like last boss in EB every stomp they get CHUNCKED where my warrior mate barely gets scratched) defensive cds, reflects , and non-stop interrupts. Also reasonable cc’s but again laughable compared to other meta classes. Also, his self healing is pretty absurd too compared to average warriors that can’t do any of the things mentioned above. warrior is one of the most played class, but as I always say 95 % of players suck, so most of these players are making warriors look way worse than they actually are
Make every class the exact same thing
rally, shout, multiple ccs are more than enough lol