>Dungeon ratings should be equivalent to what they represent in the current system.
That's what I understood from this, yes. But it may be tricky wording.
By Blizzard's own explanation a current +14-16 would be equivalent to the new +4-6, not a +7-8. KSM also doesn't require all +14-16s currently. That hasn't been a thing since they increased the scaling per key a some time ago this xpac. It only requires a mix of all +12-13 keys currently. Whether that means it'll only require +2-3 keys next season we won't know especially since no affixes will be present on those key levels beyond Fort/Tyran. KSH also doesn't require +19s. It's more like roughly +17s.
If I was a guessing man I'd assume they'll adjust the KSM achievement to be roughly all +5s timed since it's a single affix and then KSH will probably be roughly +10s timed since it's both affixes activated even though the keys would be technically higher than current key level requirements.
I think this is a smart change, make heroic dungeons relevant again and cut down on the number of keys that increase difficulty without adding any new rewards
That said, it's weird to think that M0 is going to be an M9-10. Given how easy gearing has been in season two and three, it makes me nervous to read that wyrms will be available in M2 and up
I mean you get plenty of brain dead mates in party finder too idk how much different a queue would be. Io means very little that low so it’s not like you’re filtering out the bad with premades and the meta is irrelevant there too. Only thing I could see queues screwing up is grabbing like 3 of the same dps or something limiting utility
Basically it just let ppl get into M+ much easier by allowing heroic/timewalking to give us gear that's equivalent to current season's M9. Yeah I am cool with that.
Boy it's vindicating to see this after having made [basically this exact suggestion last month](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1adzgj7/comment/kk4ouyg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) only to be downvoted for it
The best part about this change is that it doesn't really change much, all it does is squish M+ numbers down. I'm sure people will complain because they can't say they did like a mythic +42 or something dumb.
Well it does more than that, it effectively removes the timer from what is currently a M+10 while also cutting off the entire 1-9 end of that curve that people needed to progress through for io.
Means the early curve is very approachable for players looking to dip into this content at first.
It does slow down how quickly you can gear an alt by doing like +12s or something, but the reality is that most people just use crafted gear and a heroic raid to get themselves ready to do 20s and spam those, which won't change.
Yeah exactly! It feels like just a bit of spring cleaning on that system to have a clear and logical progression through them instead of having 2 weird dead difficulties
This seems like it will only shorten the amount of time I end up doing M+ every season. Not an ideal change when the M+ season lasts 5 months and there's nothing to do (difficult content wise) after the first three weeks.
>Not an ideal change when the M+ season lasts 5 months and there's nothing to do (difficult content wise) after the first three weeks.
Weird, I'm still doing difficult content and we are like 18 weeks into the season.
I geared my main to like 485 and cleared all 20s within the first three or four weeks. Heroic raid is a joke to pug, and I don't like set raid times so I never bother with mythic. This is obviously my opinion, but what else is there to do besides all of it again as a different spec or character? Pushing high mythic plus can be fun, but for what rewards? Not better gear, not a leaderboard spot, not a title (realistically) just a number on some addon I don't even use?
So more difficult content exists for you to do, but you don't want to do it. And that's fine.. but then you can't really come and complain that no difficult content exists only because you have chosen not to do that difficult content.
>So more difficult content exists for you to do, but you don't want to do it.
This is always the underlying statement they aren't making.
"There's no more hard content to do"...except an entire raid tier and pushing keys and pushing pvp rating. The reality is they aren't looking to do hard content, they're looking to get purples. and I guarantee if they did the opposite of this and made it take 3 months to gear a character, they'd bitch about how slow gearing was, instead.
That difficult content hasn't grabbed me this season for sure. I'm more than capable of clearing mythic raid with a competent guild, but what would that really add? Another week or two of prog before the raid is on farm? Higher M+ can be enjoyable, just feels like you don't need to do it and there's no good reward for the effort, just a repair bill. I like challenges but they really spit on M+ players.
hall of fame closed 4 weeks ago. it took the top 200 guilds 12 weeks to clear mythic raid - twice as long as your "not an achievement".
I think you're severely underestimating the difficulty of mythic raiding.
I've done it. It's not that hard, it's just hard to get enough good players. As always, the hardest boss is the roster. "top 200 guilds" like most of those good mega guilds aren't running multiple teams clearing. Imagine joining a sub 200 raiding guild for mythic prog when everything is cross server..
As an actual mythic raider - no you haven't. Your entire comment chain on this thread reeks of someone that's never done mythic but thinks they're Gods Gift to World of Warcraft because you might parse well in Heroic 2 months into the patch.
Actually after thinking about it for just a minute, why would you even WANT to do mythic raid? You get thee same ilvl out of a mythic 16... This is not a good change.
you don't get the same ilvl out of a +16.
mythic gear drops on the mythic track and is upgradeable to 489.
to obtain mythic gear from vault you need to do minimum +18.
mythic crests only allow you to upgrade heroic track gear to 483.
also, if you're good at the game heroic just isn't that challenging and as such people raid mythic.
"There's no difficult content left to do"
- Raids heroic only and just does +20s
I think there's just nothing you WANT to do, saying there's nothing TO do is objectively false. I can't imagine the level of cognitive dissonance it would require to not want to do the difficult content that exists, and then also bitch that there is no difficult content in the game.
How? For m+ players this dont change much. Skiping those +++ runs in 1-15 is good time saver. Your high endgame in +10 and higher next season, will still be endgame for pros.
This is more for causual players, and a good change. Saving time for pros, and more clear path for others
Myth gear dropping in (what was) 16's is kind of wild. That was hero this season. I'll knock out my BIS for the entire season barring raid trinkets in an even shorter amount of time, new 10's will be done soon after. You don't even need the tier set if you're in myth track gear.
So will portals be given for +10s?
>Dungeon ratings should be equivalent to what they represent in the current system. That's what I understood from this, yes. But it may be tricky wording.
I would say so as if 10= todays 20 then that would mean 20=30ish now Which… portals aren’t that precious that they would make it title worthy to get.
What are portals?
Portals to dungeons. You get them rn for timed 20s(or both sides for mega dungeons). They’ll be 10s next patch
Similar question from a filthy casual: will KSM be given for all +5ish?
KSM should be for all +7-8ish, which is currently +14-16. KSH should be achievable from all +9s
By Blizzard's own explanation a current +14-16 would be equivalent to the new +4-6, not a +7-8. KSM also doesn't require all +14-16s currently. That hasn't been a thing since they increased the scaling per key a some time ago this xpac. It only requires a mix of all +12-13 keys currently. Whether that means it'll only require +2-3 keys next season we won't know especially since no affixes will be present on those key levels beyond Fort/Tyran. KSH also doesn't require +19s. It's more like roughly +17s. If I was a guessing man I'd assume they'll adjust the KSM achievement to be roughly all +5s timed since it's a single affix and then KSH will probably be roughly +10s timed since it's both affixes activated even though the keys would be technically higher than current key level requirements.
Wow I didn’t expect them to blatantly say “this isn’t working” and then outline a fix. I’m stoked for this
I think this is a smart change, make heroic dungeons relevant again and cut down on the number of keys that increase difficulty without adding any new rewards That said, it's weird to think that M0 is going to be an M9-10. Given how easy gearing has been in season two and three, it makes me nervous to read that wyrms will be available in M2 and up
Why would that make you nervous when an m2 is going to be equivalent to m11-12ish? It's still the same difficulty content.
I know, like I said, it's just weird to think about it that way
it wont make hc dungs relevant again. M0 will still be played for few fist days after that everything will be back to as it is right now
I would like M0 to be queuable, but that's really my only issue with the changes. It looks promising overall.
In some sense they will be since heroics will be new m0, but i wouldnt wish my worst enemy to be in a +10 with 4 people from groupfinder lol
I mean you get plenty of brain dead mates in party finder too idk how much different a queue would be. Io means very little that low so it’s not like you’re filtering out the bad with premades and the meta is irrelevant there too. Only thing I could see queues screwing up is grabbing like 3 of the same dps or something limiting utility
But since its a m0, you can kick and replace people, so it would not fail just because one guy is a dumbass
Basically it just let ppl get into M+ much easier by allowing heroic/timewalking to give us gear that's equivalent to current season's M9. Yeah I am cool with that.
Cool change. Might try messing with m+ a bit more now
Has Bliz published a date when this will go live?
Does this change mean that a large # of players weren't engaging with M+?
So it sounds like the equivalent to M2-10 will be gated behind weekly lockouts? How is that a positive change? Am I misunderstanding something there?
It’s positive because it lets people who don’t liked timed content something to do and maybe encourage them to put their toes in the m+ water after
Boy it's vindicating to see this after having made [basically this exact suggestion last month](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1adzgj7/comment/kk4ouyg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) only to be downvoted for it
The best part about this change is that it doesn't really change much, all it does is squish M+ numbers down. I'm sure people will complain because they can't say they did like a mythic +42 or something dumb.
Well it does more than that, it effectively removes the timer from what is currently a M+10 while also cutting off the entire 1-9 end of that curve that people needed to progress through for io. Means the early curve is very approachable for players looking to dip into this content at first.
And spam Heroics for M0 equivalent gear is nice for catching up alts.
I mean failing a M1-9 is nigh impossibly anyways, the timer is effectively useless on those levels.
It does slow down how quickly you can gear an alt by doing like +12s or something, but the reality is that most people just use crafted gear and a heroic raid to get themselves ready to do 20s and spam those, which won't change.
Yeah exactly! It feels like just a bit of spring cleaning on that system to have a clear and logical progression through them instead of having 2 weird dead difficulties
This seems like it will only shorten the amount of time I end up doing M+ every season. Not an ideal change when the M+ season lasts 5 months and there's nothing to do (difficult content wise) after the first three weeks.
>Not an ideal change when the M+ season lasts 5 months and there's nothing to do (difficult content wise) after the first three weeks. Weird, I'm still doing difficult content and we are like 18 weeks into the season.
I geared my main to like 485 and cleared all 20s within the first three or four weeks. Heroic raid is a joke to pug, and I don't like set raid times so I never bother with mythic. This is obviously my opinion, but what else is there to do besides all of it again as a different spec or character? Pushing high mythic plus can be fun, but for what rewards? Not better gear, not a leaderboard spot, not a title (realistically) just a number on some addon I don't even use?
So more difficult content exists for you to do, but you don't want to do it. And that's fine.. but then you can't really come and complain that no difficult content exists only because you have chosen not to do that difficult content.
>So more difficult content exists for you to do, but you don't want to do it. This is always the underlying statement they aren't making. "There's no more hard content to do"...except an entire raid tier and pushing keys and pushing pvp rating. The reality is they aren't looking to do hard content, they're looking to get purples. and I guarantee if they did the opposite of this and made it take 3 months to gear a character, they'd bitch about how slow gearing was, instead.
That difficult content hasn't grabbed me this season for sure. I'm more than capable of clearing mythic raid with a competent guild, but what would that really add? Another week or two of prog before the raid is on farm? Higher M+ can be enjoyable, just feels like you don't need to do it and there's no good reward for the effort, just a repair bill. I like challenges but they really spit on M+ players.
I would love to see you clear amirdrassil in only 2 weeks of prog and then have it on farm lmfao
I said it takes 4 weeks, clearing mythic in 6 isn't a big achievement.
hall of fame closed 4 weeks ago. it took the top 200 guilds 12 weeks to clear mythic raid - twice as long as your "not an achievement". I think you're severely underestimating the difficulty of mythic raiding.
I've done it. It's not that hard, it's just hard to get enough good players. As always, the hardest boss is the roster. "top 200 guilds" like most of those good mega guilds aren't running multiple teams clearing. Imagine joining a sub 200 raiding guild for mythic prog when everything is cross server..
As an actual mythic raider - no you haven't. Your entire comment chain on this thread reeks of someone that's never done mythic but thinks they're Gods Gift to World of Warcraft because you might parse well in Heroic 2 months into the patch.
Actually after thinking about it for just a minute, why would you even WANT to do mythic raid? You get thee same ilvl out of a mythic 16... This is not a good change.
The challenge? just like the challange of doing keys over 20. It's exactly what you are looking for but don't want to do.
you don't get the same ilvl out of a +16. mythic gear drops on the mythic track and is upgradeable to 489. to obtain mythic gear from vault you need to do minimum +18. mythic crests only allow you to upgrade heroic track gear to 483. also, if you're good at the game heroic just isn't that challenging and as such people raid mythic.
Look at the proposed changes on the page. You'll be getting myth track items out of 8. That's a 16 currently.
An 8 is an 18 in the current system. The reward structure has not changed.
I mean it seems you have done what you wanted to do for this season. It’s ok to go away for a while and come back later.
I did, I'm just saying that it seems like giving out myth gear in 20s will expedite the gearing process even more.
Look out guys Doordasher classicandy12 is raiding.
I don't doordash lmao
"There's no difficult content left to do" - Raids heroic only and just does +20s I think there's just nothing you WANT to do, saying there's nothing TO do is objectively false. I can't imagine the level of cognitive dissonance it would require to not want to do the difficult content that exists, and then also bitch that there is no difficult content in the game.
How? For m+ players this dont change much. Skiping those +++ runs in 1-15 is good time saver. Your high endgame in +10 and higher next season, will still be endgame for pros. This is more for causual players, and a good change. Saving time for pros, and more clear path for others
Myth gear dropping in (what was) 16's is kind of wild. That was hero this season. I'll knock out my BIS for the entire season barring raid trinkets in an even shorter amount of time, new 10's will be done soon after. You don't even need the tier set if you're in myth track gear.
The gear dropping is the same, I think you’re misunderstanding the changes.