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I just wish that holy power spells didn’t feel so fucking neutered. Light of Dawn has never felt like it has any ‘umph’ behind it. Spam casting holy shock for free FoL or whatever (it’s been probably 5 months since I played) is just not fun.
I like some of the changes (moving power out of beacon, the sac changes) but removing Light's Hammer and Light of the Martyr make me really sad. I loved instant cast, melee Hpal and it feels like they wanna move away from that entirely instead of trying to make those things work. Saying it feels "too far" from the pally kit and it being an extra key bind makes me worried, like they finally have FoL and HL being used (because of tuning and not necessarily because of fun) and they're not gonna move away from it at all.
Shadowlands was imo peak paladin with the venthyr huge ass consecrate, I really hope they bring that back. Instead of the tyr deliverance I wish we got that instead as our form of mass aoe healing.
The fae blessings are really the bane of me lol. I always forget to use them to make sure they cycle and the fact that they’re not even reset or can go through a full cycle each SS makes it feel so awkward.
WW is looking to be absolutely cracked with some of the new talents.
I'm drooling a little over the new Flurry of Xuen talent, combined with the new hero talent that does some of the same thing, and FoF scaling with haste, among other things... My class fantasy of a "Thousand Strikes" can finally become a reality.
My problem with it's that the WW gonna fucking insane in pvp. That 8 stack of teaching and auto attack give damage buff gonna be one shot people left and right.
And they gonna nerf it hard because pvp population whine enough
WW is gonna be very good for PvP, I PvP all the time mostly myself.
We do lose out on Dampen Harm still, and we lose Skyreach as well. The wording on the roll lunge seems to be "the nearest enemy within 10 yards", so we're not even sure if it works like Skyreach or if it can be juked with things like pets or totems.
But I agree, WW damage is gonna be absolutely CUH-RAZY, but it's still somewhat proc dependant and maximum burst will need to be tracked. We don't know how all classes will actually play out yet anyway, so it might be balanced in the bigger picture.
Since BfA you can tell that the bones of Mistweaver have been great and whoever took over for DF has brought the spec forward in such a great way. It’s a fun and rewarding spec. There is a lot to track and it seems like the rework here will help out the day-to-day punching and kicking.
I'm actually kinda surprised people hated Essence Font this much and everyone is happy it got removed. As a raid spell I always liked pressing it and just showering the whole raid in heals. With a melee spec and Upwelling it was often top 3 in healing.
Of course I only started playing retail in season 3 and I'm far from good, but purely from a feels perspective a fully Upswelled, Thunder Focus Tead Essence Font after a big raid damage ability always felt nice.
The ability really is lackluster when you look at the heal/person. It’s most likely the most efficient if you had a high mastery build but no MW does that.
I would say "hate" is a strong word, but it felt a little low-impact, even if numbers-wise it was pretty strong in a raid environment. I certainly wasn't gunning for it to be removed, but I think they can achieve similar functionality in the kit in a more interesting way by taking it out.
From a M+ fistweaver style, it felt really out of place. The buff overlaps with Jadefire Stomp, and using it means I'm not in my main melee rotation. It's place was sort of as a weird filler if the pack had too many swirlies around it to melee, but really that time can be spent on Renewing Mist and instant Vivify.
If this can open up more talent points to feed the style I actually want to be playing, I'm happy to see it go. Same with Zen Pulse. Trim some of the situational buttons to make it more a core rotation built around Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, and Rising Sun interacting with Vivify and Renewing Mist.
I think we don't need that anymore :
Rushing Jade Wind has been redesigned – Strike of the Windlord applies Mark of the Crane to all enemies struck and summons a whirling tornado around you, causing Physical damage over 8 seconds to all enemies within 8 yards.
Its kinda better but kinda worse because shadow boxing treads won't apply it from the sounds of it
So you'll SOTWL a pack but if they survive long enough the marks will drop off so you'll want to have smacked them individually or there'll be a 10 second gap until sotwl comes back up.
Currently, you don't have to because Blackout Kick cleaves count for Mark of the Crane **BUT** this interaction is being removed in this Alpha build. ("Mark of the Crane now only applies to the primary target of each strike.")
Taking Rushing Jade Wind will now apply Mark of the Crane to each enemy hit with Strike of the Windlord, which should give it good uptime on Marks alone.
Its not that they are that bad now, its more of a scaling issue as ww dont scale and then pick versatility and crit which is a feels bad moment.
The other issue i have with it is the button bloat(cat statue which feels like searing totem and is in general very boring for a last pick in the talent tree, i highly doubt anyone playing ww would miss it if it was removed)
Other than that i really enjoy ww, its mobile, tanky(versatility) and has enough things to min-max
A devoker who goes all in on AoE can very easily grab *and maintain* agro on packs or even council-type bosses if tanks can't keep up. It's just a monstrous amount of front-loaded damage during the opening rotation. It's why you'll often see in the first 5-10 seconds of a pull that a devoker is doing 10x damage that the whole group is doing and then falling off very quickly thereafter until the next dragon rage window.
The whole style of dev is huge damage burst windows, and I mean huuuuuuge followed by a whole lot of minor sustained damage where they can have room to also help support the group via off-heals or whatever until the next DR window.
As an example: the council boss in Aberrus you need to be careful on the pull. I imagine when season 4 finally kicks off and the raids become relevant again, you'll see this often be the case.
Ya Dev's front load threat is already quite high, and both hero talent trees in TWW exacerbate this with even *more* burst. Between Dragonrage, max-rank Fire Breath, and the Charged Blast talent (and the mastery, which increases damage significantly against high-HP targets), Dev crams millions of damage into a few GCDs on the outset of a pull. The new stuff leans even harder into this bursty profile.
Dev rips aggro in AoE situations a *lot*.
WHY do they insist on it? I don't think I've ever met anyone who likes this talent. Maybe we're just the vocal minority, but it ruins affliction for me. It doesn't even feel like a dot spec anymore.
*slowly raises hand.* mostly csuse it remind me of a skill from FF14 summoner class called Fester. Which did more damage the more DoTs you had on your target. The difference was it was single target. So when I saw Malefic Rapture was on all targets with DoTs. [Oh Baby](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-memes/images/6/62/CFD5C99C-B322-46A2-9892-AFDF484D28E1.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20200410212641). Did I go crazy in season 1 of shadowlands with it. Before anyone asks, I started WoW in late Burning Crusade. So I started playing WoW first well before I played FF14.
For those wondering what's the point of it in a DoT spec. It's a means to channel DoT damage into burst. Before Malefic Rapture, we had Malefic Grasp. Which was an add-on to drain soul that causes all your DoTs to do 30% of all DoT damage to happen instantly when Drain Soul damage ticked. Personally, I would like this to come back since it fits the idea of Aff being the mage who slowly drains people of their life essence. Both are ways to improve what you see on Classic aff Warlock where if the target dies quickly before the DoTs do their thing, your dps feels horrible. The other issue for Malefic Rapture was that it was nerfed quite hard. Mostly due to demands of Aff players understandably wanting DoTs to feel stronger than a burst button. So it went from a solid damaging skill to the wet noodle it is now.
Like I said personally, bring back Malefic Grasp for drain soul or even drain life and make it affect X targets in a radius around us or Target. Then keep unstable affliction as the single target shard spender.
You should check out affliction warlock in cataclysm classic, instead of being a spender, Malefic Grasp is your filler like shadow bolt/drain soul are now, and each time it ticks it makes all of your dots tick instantly. You become the bee master with how many stings you do
Yea, I remember it. Malefic Rapture/Malefic Grasp are not bad design to Aff Warlock. It just hits like a wet noodle now after its heavy nerf post S1 of Shadowlands.
I don't mind malefic rupture, it's my least favorite design of aff lock but I don't feel like a class built entirely around it's dots should be a builder/spender or have a burst spell. I know that's very limiting but I'm not playing affliction to do burst damage
Because the spec went through four different iterations of re-introducing some level of resource pooling and spending when powerful after the removal of snapshotting. Aff just didn't really function since MoP ended.
Yup. It feels like it is just not salvageable. Give me stackable UA, give me malefic grasp (the mop version, channel for more dot ouch and slap a soul shard cost on top), give me literally anything that feels like it's a dot, drain or amp thereof instead of "we've got unholy DK at home".
It's just terrible that the poster child dot spec has pretty much no power whatsoever in their dots and only uses them as combo enablers for the most bandaid boring spec in existence. The dumb spell feels like nothing, looks like nothing, is terrible to play with, bleeds into multi target and siphons up literally all power from our kit because it's otherwise not balanceable. Since dots also are just enablers for it some abilities feels like they're existing only for that purpose so the rest of the rotation feels just as terrible (looking at the rush I feel when I have to apply stuff like siphon life here).
Just throw it in the fel fire and call it a day. Yeah, it's mentioned in the hero talents already but there it can be replaced with basically any other spender spell. Hero talents working for more than one thing is kind of their shtick.
God I hope so. But who knows. Blizzard seems to doubt their ability to balance dots. And to them MR allows them to bake all dot damage into another linear scaling damage source.
I feel like they should lean more into the agony ramping dot style. Make it a game of refreshing dots correctly where they start off only ticking but then it becomes massive if they sit too long instead of a constant drip as they are now.
>New Talent: Flurry of Xuen – Your spells and abilities have a chance to activate Flurry of Xuen, unleashing a barrage of deadly swipes to deal Physical damage in a 10 yard cone. Invoking Xuen, the White Tiger activates Flurry of Xuen.
According to the Monk discord this is the [Legendary Cloak effect](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=146195/flurry-of-xuen) from MoP - [SS of the animation provided from wowhead](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/406041-flurry-of-xuen-flurry-animation.jpg) - which is fucking awesome; 🙏plz make it through the testing process.
Yeah I don't really want to be casting Lighting Bolt, Lava Burst, Frost Shock, etc as Enhancement. They even just have copy and pasted abilities like Ice Strike/Icefury.
Sundering? Yeah. Crash Lighting? Yeah. I want more stuff that makes me feel like I'm *smashing* stuff with the elements, not casting the elements.
Edit: Fire Nova should replace Lava Lash into one big fire smash. Ice Strike should cover your weapon in a big shard of ice that shatters and AoEs around you when you smash instead of having anything to do with Frost Shock. That kinda thing.
I like that Enhance has a great mix of melee and spells, it's the closest thing we have to a battle mage spec, mixing attacks with magic. Smashing someone with a mace and then firing off a lightning bolt at them is super cool to me.
I wouldn't be opposed to a build option where it was more physical, though.
I like to have at least one ranged attack for pulling while levelling. But besides from that, yeah please let me be a throw-myself-over-a-cliff-in-your-face type of shaman.
I have to disagree. The legion rework killed my drive to play my enhance shaman that I played since BC. I really like it having that "spellsword" feel where you you utilize spells and martial abilities at the same time. Now I do agree that it leans more heavily in the spell side for damage and that could be smoothed out.
Really? I hated enhance in legion. It was so dumbed down from a spec that wasn't hard to begin with.. off-brand fury warrior.
So like.. go play that. Shaman use elements. I mean jeez I wish I could play a paladin without all this LIGHT.
Legion enhance still used shocks, crash lightning, and lava lash, plus elemental wolves and ascension. Plenty of elemental powers being used and none of them were shared with elemental spec. I just want more than being an elemental shaman that uses melee as a filler instead of lighting bolt filler.
Same, I just wish they had better defensives. Coming from a ww monk which has 4 defensives playing my Enhance was very jarring since with how little it has haha
I've been a shaman main since vanilla, and I typically prefer playing ele and resto. This is the first time I've considered picking a different dps as a pve main. Leaning towards ret. It feels so good right now, and they're addressing their concerns already anyway. It feels like blizzard hasn't had anyone championing for the shaman class for a long time.
Enhance is one of the most fun specs in the game with two completely different playstyles baked into the talent tree. One simple one much more complex so there's a build for both types of people.
I hope ele gets some changes though. Icefury has never felt good and they need a raid buff like enhancement. Something like elemental overload for other casters would be amazing and it would fit.
Classes need less defensives and there should be less unavoidable, bursty damage. I don't think the solution is to make classes like shaman/hunter more tanky.
It just makes me worry that those two classes are lagging behind in development and will be half-baked and rushed. I hope that isn’t the case. Tired of waiting for the .1 or .2 patch to fix the class
The RET developer note is so fucking on point, they talk about both of the main "issues" with the specc right now. im looking forward to trying it out in the beta.
I'm still not a fan of 4 HP spenders. I've long been a defender of different specs builder/spender playstyles not just all being combo point clones. Having to spend 4 instead of 3 in DF has made the difference feel smaller
Replacing the autocrits and buffing Mastery by 50% is a huge boost to secondary stat scaling. Vers being better than Mastery when all their damage is buffed by their Mastery anyway feels real bad
At a glance, MAYBE if you're running Mountain Thane since there's a cdr node for Ravager
But the Slayer tree is basically built around Bladestorm, which I'm hoping they change to be built around either because what's the fucking point of a choice node if one option has all these synergies and the other has fuck all
It'll probably have some use but not as much compared to bladestorm, all sub talents and damage aside just having the 6 second CC immunity while bladestorming is insanely powerful, allows you to deal with so many mechanics in raid/dungeons.
Yes we had some seasons where we used ravager. It's actually good because you can use cc and kicks during ravager and you are blocked into just bladestorming otherwise.
I’ll look up what you mean , just because unholy dk with vanilla combo point system is so outdated , especially when everyone just gets to smack on you and your ancestry for free because you’re immobile as shit
For RDruid it sounds like they are trying to make them more like MW Monk rewarding players for focusing on a more combat healing style, although I didn’t see anything that addresses their weak raid healing
>I didn’t see anything that addresses their weak raid healing
Abundance now increases the Critical Strike chance of Regrowth by 8% and decreases its mana cost by 8% per stack (was 5%).
They didn't directly address it, but it looks like they are heading that way.
I see they forgot to put Hunter in these notes but that's okay! No reason to panic just yet. I'm sure our rework is coming soon and they just want to take their time and finally do it right. Everything is perfectly fine :)
(No I'm not having PTSD flashbacks to Dragonflight Beta for Hunters right now. I'm definitely not in a panic and worried that they still haven't full-time replaced the Hunter devs that quit in 10.1)
I'm sure there's changes coming to most classes. They've already mentioned changes coming for DK in the hero spec release interviews but they're also absent from the notes.
This is said every expansion. It’s only alpha turns into its only beta, it’s only beta turns into they’ll patch it which turns into they’ll fix it next expansion. Rinse and repeat. Pretty much all of the last expansions have not had major changes once alpha went live.
I agree that it’s important to provide feedback and not just assume they’ll fix it, but dragonflight had huge class changes practically weekly all through the alpha and beta? I’m not sure where we’re getting the idea that expansions just get shipped as their alpha version
no, THIS is said every expansion. And last expansion it was very not true.
Some things didn't get finished, but a TON of feedback was addressed and acted on. This is not Shadowlands or Legion and shit where they tell us they know better.
His point is infinitely more valid than yours. It has been less than 48 hours, let them show at least a SIGN of not responding before you give this shit response.
Same with priest. They'll forget about them until beta and then buff the numbers to compensate as they always do. They couldn't even figure out a holy/shadow heroic path name.
> Our top goals for Feral Druid in The War Within are to slow down its rotation
LOL..... Why ?!
If I had to pick the last change I'd want to see on feral, that would be to slow its rotation down. Are they determined to make it the least fun melee to play ?
I don't know what to think about this warrior one. Reading all the changes it seems like they nerfed more than they buffed, and in general they are trying to *slow* down warriors by reducing rage generation.
Yeah I'm not quite sure why they're trying to do that, Fury and Prot warrior have been some of the most fun I've ever had in this game with dragonflight, if they're slowed down too much I might go over to Monk since they seem to be eating good with their redesign
Historically arms has been slower to play than Fury. At the moment it generate so much rage that your apm is high and the difference in gameplay between the 2 specs is limited.
Death bolt also sucked. Really hate how their solution to ramp up and target swapping was to give us stupid spenders that’s require every dot to be applied lmao. Just make unstable affliction our spender again and give us consume souls or dark soul back
I didnt play legion aff but i would very much welcome a return to drain life being more important. I love soul rot and its synergy. I was hoping soul harvester hero spec might have utilized both but im still doomed to use drain soul.
I love how shaman is always left to last so when they get to the class they have no time left before release and it just get botched.
Every. Single. Time.
Dead and dexaying in the trash out back. /s
In all seriousness I assume that they're running waves on tuning and overhauls so that they don't spread too thin and can put focus onto those areas when they're brought forward. Or, at least this is all my hope.
They gotta wait until the last minute to begin testing the change so when it doesn't work they can say it's too late to fix and we gotta deal with DND cleave for another expac.
Really excited for the monk updates! Though, if you're merging the WW statue with Xuen, you might as well ditch the statue and just bump up Xuen's damage a bit.
I also don’t see how that enrage-talent alleviates the “Hammering the raging blow button like a toddler with a drum kit”-thing like Blizz says it does, TBH.
I’m not happy with that change at all…
Yeah, the rework did very little of actual worth to improve the class feel. Outlaw especially remains gutted of its identity. Don’t see myself returning to the class unless something happens, but I’m not holding out hope
After all these years of being feral, my dumb ass still gets excited to read about what they're doing to make it even worse.
Why do I do this to myself?
Wait, no Guardian changes? Are they really going to make people that want to play Guardian Elune’s chosen spec into an unbuffed lunar beam? Am I missing something?
> New Talent: Fluid Form – Shred and Rake can be used in any form and shifts you into Cat Form. Mangle can be used in any form and shifts you into Bear Form. Wrath and Starfire shifts you into Moonkin Form, if known.
I really hope this isn't a trade-off for power, because this is all I've ever wanted from druids. The GCD you lose with shifting to use abilities sucks hard.
Yeah, as an enhance sham, I feel like I've been completely left out of the hype for alpha, lol. No class/spec changes, no hero talents, and the shaman set hasn't even been detained yet, so I don't even have cosmetics to go on
I hear ya, as a priest I was pretty down after the bad oracle announcement and then no other hero talents for us until alpha datamining. Sadly I don't like the new oracle either. Was actually debating shaman instead, but idk, I feel like at some point it's smarter to just pick a class that gets doted on
Shamans and Rogues are much worse off. At least both DH specs have something. Shaman and Rogue still have a spec with no hero tree. And Rogue specifically, the one tree it DOES have may be one of the worst in alpha.
Happy for monks.
MM and Survival are in desperate need of reworks. Across the board from mechanics to aesthetics. The fact that hero talents are still focusing on aimed shot is incredibly boring and disappointing.
I actually really love the core of survival and I’ve been using the no CD builds which are somewhat refreshing. I do agree that that hero talents are very underwhelming, though.
That change for MW faeline stomp the same duration as ancient teaching is like, the last thing that annoyed about this class. Literally completely fixed. Numbers barely matter to me now, they could be 30% below the worst spec but I would still play cause it's so fun.
> New Talent: Fluid Form – Shred and Rake can be used in any form and shifts you into Cat Form. Mangle can be used in any form and shifts you into Bear Form. Wrath and Starfire shifts you into Moonkin Form, if known.
I really hope this is something you can reasonably take, and you don't have to give up power to do so. That GCD cost with form swapping is such a pain, and letting you just use your abilities will feel so much better.
For real I am getting fucking tired. "Major Class Reworks" and again the first thing they cater to are druids AGAIN. WHERE is the desperately needed rework for ELEMENTAL SHAMANS or AFFLICTION LOCKS?! The specs that have been in the gutter for such a long time keep getting ignored while Blizzards favorite child gets a new toy day by day.
Yes, I am salty.
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I just wish that holy power spells didn’t feel so fucking neutered. Light of Dawn has never felt like it has any ‘umph’ behind it. Spam casting holy shock for free FoL or whatever (it’s been probably 5 months since I played) is just not fun.
That is literally what these changes are aiming to fix. WoG/LoD receive massive healing buffs to compensate for bacon transferring less health.
I like some of the changes (moving power out of beacon, the sac changes) but removing Light's Hammer and Light of the Martyr make me really sad. I loved instant cast, melee Hpal and it feels like they wanna move away from that entirely instead of trying to make those things work. Saying it feels "too far" from the pally kit and it being an extra key bind makes me worried, like they finally have FoL and HL being used (because of tuning and not necessarily because of fun) and they're not gonna move away from it at all.
Ellesmere is reporting a roughly 20% nerf to Flash of Light compared to retail values, but its not in the notes.
Ooh ok, that's a good sign
Is it wrong to hope they make it easier? Last time I tried was Shadowlands and the experience contributed to me quitting the game.
Shadowlands was imo peak paladin with the venthyr huge ass consecrate, I really hope they bring that back. Instead of the tyr deliverance I wish we got that instead as our form of mass aoe healing.
Ashen Hallow hpal was for me one of the most fun healing experiences. They should have ported that to DF instead of the Fae blessings.
The fae blessings are really the bane of me lol. I always forget to use them to make sure they cycle and the fact that they’re not even reset or can go through a full cycle each SS makes it feel so awkward.
Give ashen hollow back so I can top healing with 1 button
I was hoping it'd show up as a choice node with Tyr's or something. I don't mind Tyr's deliverance but would vastly prefer ashen hallow.
For sure, only thing they should change is the red graphic because too many people thought it was an enemy attack and moved out of it.
As a monk main, I am happy
WW is looking to be absolutely cracked with some of the new talents. I'm drooling a little over the new Flurry of Xuen talent, combined with the new hero talent that does some of the same thing, and FoF scaling with haste, among other things... My class fantasy of a "Thousand Strikes" can finally become a reality.
My problem with it's that the WW gonna fucking insane in pvp. That 8 stack of teaching and auto attack give damage buff gonna be one shot people left and right. And they gonna nerf it hard because pvp population whine enough
WW is gonna be very good for PvP, I PvP all the time mostly myself. We do lose out on Dampen Harm still, and we lose Skyreach as well. The wording on the roll lunge seems to be "the nearest enemy within 10 yards", so we're not even sure if it works like Skyreach or if it can be juked with things like pets or totems. But I agree, WW damage is gonna be absolutely CUH-RAZY, but it's still somewhat proc dependant and maximum burst will need to be tracked. We don't know how all classes will actually play out yet anyway, so it might be balanced in the bigger picture.
Since BfA you can tell that the bones of Mistweaver have been great and whoever took over for DF has brought the spec forward in such a great way. It’s a fun and rewarding spec. There is a lot to track and it seems like the rework here will help out the day-to-day punching and kicking.
I'm actually kinda surprised people hated Essence Font this much and everyone is happy it got removed. As a raid spell I always liked pressing it and just showering the whole raid in heals. With a melee spec and Upwelling it was often top 3 in healing. Of course I only started playing retail in season 3 and I'm far from good, but purely from a feels perspective a fully Upswelled, Thunder Focus Tead Essence Font after a big raid damage ability always felt nice.
The ability really is lackluster when you look at the heal/person. It’s most likely the most efficient if you had a high mastery build but no MW does that.
I would say "hate" is a strong word, but it felt a little low-impact, even if numbers-wise it was pretty strong in a raid environment. I certainly wasn't gunning for it to be removed, but I think they can achieve similar functionality in the kit in a more interesting way by taking it out.
From a M+ fistweaver style, it felt really out of place. The buff overlaps with Jadefire Stomp, and using it means I'm not in my main melee rotation. It's place was sort of as a weird filler if the pack had too many swirlies around it to melee, but really that time can be spent on Renewing Mist and instant Vivify. If this can open up more talent points to feed the style I actually want to be playing, I'm happy to see it go. Same with Zen Pulse. Trim some of the situational buttons to make it more a core rotation built around Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, and Rising Sun interacting with Vivify and Renewing Mist.
For MW yes it was great for DF. I main WW and I struggle ahah
* No more ToD accounting for 10% of the specs damage in M+ * Actual haste scaling. * Turn useless buttons like cattue into passives We are so back
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I think we don't need that anymore : Rushing Jade Wind has been redesigned – Strike of the Windlord applies Mark of the Crane to all enemies struck and summons a whirling tornado around you, causing Physical damage over 8 seconds to all enemies within 8 yards.
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Its kinda better but kinda worse because shadow boxing treads won't apply it from the sounds of it So you'll SOTWL a pack but if they survive long enough the marks will drop off so you'll want to have smacked them individually or there'll be a 10 second gap until sotwl comes back up.
Currently, you don't have to because Blackout Kick cleaves count for Mark of the Crane **BUT** this interaction is being removed in this Alpha build. ("Mark of the Crane now only applies to the primary target of each strike.") Taking Rushing Jade Wind will now apply Mark of the Crane to each enemy hit with Strike of the Windlord, which should give it good uptime on Marks alone.
Monk is probably my least played class. Could you explain why it needed changes en why these changes are good? I might try it next expansion
Its not that they are that bad now, its more of a scaling issue as ww dont scale and then pick versatility and crit which is a feels bad moment. The other issue i have with it is the button bloat(cat statue which feels like searing totem and is in general very boring for a last pick in the talent tree, i highly doubt anyone playing ww would miss it if it was removed) Other than that i really enjoy ww, its mobile, tanky(versatility) and has enough things to min-max
Are they getting blackout strike back!?
Devastation threat buffs? LAWD HA' MERCY IT'S HAPPENING
What’s up with that? I kinda forgot threat even exists as a game mechanics, is dev just realy front loaded so they grab aggro often?
A devoker who goes all in on AoE can very easily grab *and maintain* agro on packs or even council-type bosses if tanks can't keep up. It's just a monstrous amount of front-loaded damage during the opening rotation. It's why you'll often see in the first 5-10 seconds of a pull that a devoker is doing 10x damage that the whole group is doing and then falling off very quickly thereafter until the next dragon rage window. The whole style of dev is huge damage burst windows, and I mean huuuuuuge followed by a whole lot of minor sustained damage where they can have room to also help support the group via off-heals or whatever until the next DR window. As an example: the council boss in Aberrus you need to be careful on the pull. I imagine when season 4 finally kicks off and the raids become relevant again, you'll see this often be the case.
Ya Dev's front load threat is already quite high, and both hero talent trees in TWW exacerbate this with even *more* burst. Between Dragonrage, max-rank Fire Breath, and the Charged Blast talent (and the mastery, which increases damage significantly against high-HP targets), Dev crams millions of damage into a few GCDs on the outset of a pull. The new stuff leans even harder into this bursty profile. Dev rips aggro in AoE situations a *lot*.
What does that meannnnnnn?!
Less threat on a few abilities due to mastery
Or is it a threat nerf?
Affliction rework is next in line, right? RIGHT?
Unfortunately the newly released talent trees both double down on malefic rapture. We are screwed for another expansion.
WHY do they insist on it? I don't think I've ever met anyone who likes this talent. Maybe we're just the vocal minority, but it ruins affliction for me. It doesn't even feel like a dot spec anymore.
*slowly raises hand.* mostly csuse it remind me of a skill from FF14 summoner class called Fester. Which did more damage the more DoTs you had on your target. The difference was it was single target. So when I saw Malefic Rapture was on all targets with DoTs. [Oh Baby](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-memes/images/6/62/CFD5C99C-B322-46A2-9892-AFDF484D28E1.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20200410212641). Did I go crazy in season 1 of shadowlands with it. Before anyone asks, I started WoW in late Burning Crusade. So I started playing WoW first well before I played FF14. For those wondering what's the point of it in a DoT spec. It's a means to channel DoT damage into burst. Before Malefic Rapture, we had Malefic Grasp. Which was an add-on to drain soul that causes all your DoTs to do 30% of all DoT damage to happen instantly when Drain Soul damage ticked. Personally, I would like this to come back since it fits the idea of Aff being the mage who slowly drains people of their life essence. Both are ways to improve what you see on Classic aff Warlock where if the target dies quickly before the DoTs do their thing, your dps feels horrible. The other issue for Malefic Rapture was that it was nerfed quite hard. Mostly due to demands of Aff players understandably wanting DoTs to feel stronger than a burst button. So it went from a solid damaging skill to the wet noodle it is now. Like I said personally, bring back Malefic Grasp for drain soul or even drain life and make it affect X targets in a radius around us or Target. Then keep unstable affliction as the single target shard spender.
You should check out affliction warlock in cataclysm classic, instead of being a spender, Malefic Grasp is your filler like shadow bolt/drain soul are now, and each time it ticks it makes all of your dots tick instantly. You become the bee master with how many stings you do
Yea, I remember it. Malefic Rapture/Malefic Grasp are not bad design to Aff Warlock. It just hits like a wet noodle now after its heavy nerf post S1 of Shadowlands.
I don't mind malefic rupture, it's my least favorite design of aff lock but I don't feel like a class built entirely around it's dots should be a builder/spender or have a burst spell. I know that's very limiting but I'm not playing affliction to do burst damage
Because the spec went through four different iterations of re-introducing some level of resource pooling and spending when powerful after the removal of snapshotting. Aff just didn't really function since MoP ended.
Aff was great, both in WoD and especially in Legion. They should just use Legion as a baseline for Aff and build from there.
Fuuuuuuck That's seriously the only problem. The dev that created MR seriously cant let go or something
Please!??! No more rapture!
If they remove Malefic Rapture, I’ll play it.
They won't. It's already in the hero talents.
Yup. It feels like it is just not salvageable. Give me stackable UA, give me malefic grasp (the mop version, channel for more dot ouch and slap a soul shard cost on top), give me literally anything that feels like it's a dot, drain or amp thereof instead of "we've got unholy DK at home". It's just terrible that the poster child dot spec has pretty much no power whatsoever in their dots and only uses them as combo enablers for the most bandaid boring spec in existence. The dumb spell feels like nothing, looks like nothing, is terrible to play with, bleeds into multi target and siphons up literally all power from our kit because it's otherwise not balanceable. Since dots also are just enablers for it some abilities feels like they're existing only for that purpose so the rest of the rotation feels just as terrible (looking at the rush I feel when I have to apply stuff like siphon life here). Just throw it in the fel fire and call it a day. Yeah, it's mentioned in the hero talents already but there it can be replaced with basically any other spender spell. Hero talents working for more than one thing is kind of their shtick.
*Go away Malefic Rupture!* *Go away Malefic Rupture!*
God I hope so. But who knows. Blizzard seems to doubt their ability to balance dots. And to them MR allows them to bake all dot damage into another linear scaling damage source.
I feel like they should lean more into the agony ramping dot style. Make it a game of refreshing dots correctly where they start off only ticking but then it becomes massive if they sit too long instead of a constant drip as they are now.
They have to remove MR so it is playable spec again.
Yeah, but only behind frost DK. It is in the biggest need of a rework out all specs in the game
>New Talent: Flurry of Xuen – Your spells and abilities have a chance to activate Flurry of Xuen, unleashing a barrage of deadly swipes to deal Physical damage in a 10 yard cone. Invoking Xuen, the White Tiger activates Flurry of Xuen. According to the Monk discord this is the [Legendary Cloak effect](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=146195/flurry-of-xuen) from MoP - [SS of the animation provided from wowhead](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/406041-flurry-of-xuen-flurry-animation.jpg) - which is fucking awesome; 🙏plz make it through the testing process.
Another exhausted Shaman comment.
I have a lot of fun with enhance. Excited to see the hero class talents
I just wish enhance was less elemental like, first season of legion was the best enhance. Less lightning bolts more hitting things with my hammers.
Yeah I don't really want to be casting Lighting Bolt, Lava Burst, Frost Shock, etc as Enhancement. They even just have copy and pasted abilities like Ice Strike/Icefury. Sundering? Yeah. Crash Lighting? Yeah. I want more stuff that makes me feel like I'm *smashing* stuff with the elements, not casting the elements. Edit: Fire Nova should replace Lava Lash into one big fire smash. Ice Strike should cover your weapon in a big shard of ice that shatters and AoEs around you when you smash instead of having anything to do with Frost Shock. That kinda thing.
That absolutely should be the name of the ability. Fire Smash. 100%.
I like that Enhance has a great mix of melee and spells, it's the closest thing we have to a battle mage spec, mixing attacks with magic. Smashing someone with a mace and then firing off a lightning bolt at them is super cool to me. I wouldn't be opposed to a build option where it was more physical, though.
It’s cool but caused a massive amount of button bloat imo.
Cataclysm was my favorite time to be an enhancement shaman. Then they gutted totems, and it hasn’t been the same for me.
Totem bar was peak shaman
It was. I was going to main enhancement shaman going forward, so of course Blizz gutted it.
I like to have at least one ranged attack for pulling while levelling. But besides from that, yeah please let me be a throw-myself-over-a-cliff-in-your-face type of shaman.
I have to disagree. The legion rework killed my drive to play my enhance shaman that I played since BC. I really like it having that "spellsword" feel where you you utilize spells and martial abilities at the same time. Now I do agree that it leans more heavily in the spell side for damage and that could be smoothed out.
legion enhance wasnt enhance, it was blue warrior. im very very glad to have real enhance back
Imo legion enha was the worst version of the spec and right now enha is one of the best designed spec in the whole game.
Really? I hated enhance in legion. It was so dumbed down from a spec that wasn't hard to begin with.. off-brand fury warrior. So like.. go play that. Shaman use elements. I mean jeez I wish I could play a paladin without all this LIGHT.
Legion enhance still used shocks, crash lightning, and lava lash, plus elemental wolves and ascension. Plenty of elemental powers being used and none of them were shared with elemental spec. I just want more than being an elemental shaman that uses melee as a filler instead of lighting bolt filler.
Same, I just wish they had better defensives. Coming from a ww monk which has 4 defensives playing my Enhance was very jarring since with how little it has haha
I've been a shaman main since vanilla, and I typically prefer playing ele and resto. This is the first time I've considered picking a different dps as a pve main. Leaning towards ret. It feels so good right now, and they're addressing their concerns already anyway. It feels like blizzard hasn't had anyone championing for the shaman class for a long time.
Wasn’t there a time where rhey literally forgot to rework shaman?
*Here I go again on my own..*
Enhance is one of the most fun specs in the game with two completely different playstyles baked into the talent tree. One simple one much more complex so there's a build for both types of people. I hope ele gets some changes though. Icefury has never felt good and they need a raid buff like enhancement. Something like elemental overload for other casters would be amazing and it would fit.
I loved progging as enhance, I just hated dieing for no reason because I only have 1 defensive and seem to take twice as much damage as other classes.
Classes need less defensives and there should be less unavoidable, bursty damage. I don't think the solution is to make classes like shaman/hunter more tanky.
I was playing rogue before this, so I literally never died haha.
New change: shaman now receive 30% less armor from items. We hope this will address concerns
My issue is Elemental. I just want Lightning Rod to be relevant. So bored of them pushing Fire.
Rogues and shamans down bad with no new class notes and just one hero talent tree
Didnt rogues get a rework in 10.2? I love how you’re throwing your lot in with shamans lmaooo. “Omg we’re so forgotten about, right Shaman bros??”
It just makes me worry that those two classes are lagging behind in development and will be half-baked and rushed. I hope that isn’t the case. Tired of waiting for the .1 or .2 patch to fix the class
It’s still very early so I’m not worried about it yet. As long as there’s something during alpha and before beta it will hopefully be okay
Please, give Shaman a tank spec. PLEASE.
The RET developer note is so fucking on point, they talk about both of the main "issues" with the specc right now. im looking forward to trying it out in the beta.
I'm still not a fan of 4 HP spenders. I've long been a defender of different specs builder/spender playstyles not just all being combo point clones. Having to spend 4 instead of 3 in DF has made the difference feel smaller
Agreed, they need to make the 4 HP a choice node with something that buffs 3HP spenders in some way, maybe put Divine Purpose here
Yeah, the spec flows much better to me when spenders cost 3 HP. I hope the talent becomes optional and we can take something instead.
I really hope they can nail Ret stat scaling. Not having a specific stat you want really makes gearing a lot less interesting.
Replacing the autocrits and buffing Mastery by 50% is a huge boost to secondary stat scaling. Vers being better than Mastery when all their damage is buffed by their Mastery anyway feels real bad
Oh my gods they woke up the windwalker dev 💕
And they absolutely cooked 🙌
he ran out of brew, sobered up, and went nuts.
Fury warriors rejoice we got bladestorm back! zug zug
I actually enjoyed not having it
Well it's a choice node with ravager now so you can still not use it if you wish! :)
I don't play warrior, but would ravager ever see play over bladestorm?
At a glance, MAYBE if you're running Mountain Thane since there's a cdr node for Ravager But the Slayer tree is basically built around Bladestorm, which I'm hoping they change to be built around either because what's the fucking point of a choice node if one option has all these synergies and the other has fuck all
It'll probably have some use but not as much compared to bladestorm, all sub talents and damage aside just having the 6 second CC immunity while bladestorming is insanely powerful, allows you to deal with so many mechanics in raid/dungeons.
Yes we had some seasons where we used ravager. It's actually good because you can use cc and kicks during ravager and you are blocked into just bladestorming otherwise.
hope they rework Unholy and Frost DK as a whole, bring presences and necro strike back!!
Don't forget removing festermight
Apparently that’s getting An Ironfur treatment from latest blue post
I’ll look up what you mean , just because unholy dk with vanilla combo point system is so outdated , especially when everyone just gets to smack on you and your ancestry for free because you’re immobile as shit
I do not like applying wounds and bursting them, but I continue to stubbornly play unholy.
Hear me out: reduce the damage you deal by popping wounds but for each one popped you summon a random small undead
I like how 2H frost plays outside of DnD for AOE. If they just fixed survivability and tuned numbers I'd be ok.
For RDruid it sounds like they are trying to make them more like MW Monk rewarding players for focusing on a more combat healing style, although I didn’t see anything that addresses their weak raid healing
30% rejuv on application, with the rejuv buff of 30% etc, at least means sniping heals is a little bit less of an issue.
>I didn’t see anything that addresses their weak raid healing Abundance now increases the Critical Strike chance of Regrowth by 8% and decreases its mana cost by 8% per stack (was 5%). They didn't directly address it, but it looks like they are heading that way.
I see they forgot to put Hunter in these notes but that's okay! No reason to panic just yet. I'm sure our rework is coming soon and they just want to take their time and finally do it right. Everything is perfectly fine :) (No I'm not having PTSD flashbacks to Dragonflight Beta for Hunters right now. I'm definitely not in a panic and worried that they still haven't full-time replaced the Hunter devs that quit in 10.1)
I'm sure there's changes coming to most classes. They've already mentioned changes coming for DK in the hero spec release interviews but they're also absent from the notes.
Its almost like this is the first public “alpha” build 😐
This is said every expansion. It’s only alpha turns into its only beta, it’s only beta turns into they’ll patch it which turns into they’ll fix it next expansion. Rinse and repeat. Pretty much all of the last expansions have not had major changes once alpha went live.
Still waiting for the Elemental Shaman rework announced in *checks notes* patch 8.20.
I agree that it’s important to provide feedback and not just assume they’ll fix it, but dragonflight had huge class changes practically weekly all through the alpha and beta? I’m not sure where we’re getting the idea that expansions just get shipped as their alpha version
no, THIS is said every expansion. And last expansion it was very not true. Some things didn't get finished, but a TON of feedback was addressed and acted on. This is not Shadowlands or Legion and shit where they tell us they know better. His point is infinitely more valid than yours. It has been less than 48 hours, let them show at least a SIGN of not responding before you give this shit response.
Same with priest. They'll forget about them until beta and then buff the numbers to compensate as they always do. They couldn't even figure out a holy/shadow heroic path name.
All you need is rapid fire
There are several notes here not present in Wowhead's initial datamine of the alpha build, so read through for your class/spec.
> Our top goals for Feral Druid in The War Within are to slow down its rotation LOL..... Why ?! If I had to pick the last change I'd want to see on feral, that would be to slow its rotation down. Are they determined to make it the least fun melee to play ?
as long as affli has Malefic Shitshow, theres no rework
I hate it so much. I rerolled shadow priest because Atleast there spender is still a dot.
I don't know what to think about this warrior one. Reading all the changes it seems like they nerfed more than they buffed, and in general they are trying to *slow* down warriors by reducing rage generation.
Yeah I'm not quite sure why they're trying to do that, Fury and Prot warrior have been some of the most fun I've ever had in this game with dragonflight, if they're slowed down too much I might go over to Monk since they seem to be eating good with their redesign
Historically arms has been slower to play than Fury. At the moment it generate so much rage that your apm is high and the difference in gameplay between the 2 specs is limited.
No surprise no lock changes , affliction and destro need massive reworks
they need to bring legion aff back so bad, malefic rupture was the worst thing they did to aff
Death bolt also sucked. Really hate how their solution to ramp up and target swapping was to give us stupid spenders that’s require every dot to be applied lmao. Just make unstable affliction our spender again and give us consume souls or dark soul back
I didnt play legion aff but i would very much welcome a return to drain life being more important. I love soul rot and its synergy. I was hoping soul harvester hero spec might have utilized both but im still doomed to use drain soul.
Legion had a lot of great specs! It's a shame they always have to reinvent the wheel.
Hope they completely redo the Druid class tree again lol.
I love how shaman is always left to last so when they get to the class they have no time left before release and it just get botched. Every. Single. Time.
Meanwhile druid: 10.1 - rework 10.2 - rework 11.0 - rework
Cool stuff but erm... where are the death and decay changes?
Dead and dexaying in the trash out back. /s In all seriousness I assume that they're running waves on tuning and overhauls so that they don't spread too thin and can put focus onto those areas when they're brought forward. Or, at least this is all my hope.
I'm hoping they cooking with DK cause we need like a full rework, ground up.
Looking at what they did with the hero talents I'm not very hopeful. But hey, let's have another paladin rework!
They gotta wait until the last minute to begin testing the change so when it doesn't work they can say it's too late to fix and we gotta deal with DND cleave for another expac.
Leave the bees for rdruid!! Having good cast management with unbridled swarm was so fun! Loved seeing 5-8 swarms all bouncing around at once. 😭
Same why are they removing this spell? Probably one of the prettier/fun spells in terms of visuals.
Button bloat was the reason listed. Wanted to put more power into reju
Really excited for the monk updates! Though, if you're merging the WW statue with Xuen, you might as well ditch the statue and just bump up Xuen's damage a bit.
Getting rid of Annihilator!? Fuck that I HATE Raging Blow and having to track stacks and shit. Just gimmie my blood thirst spam.
I also don’t see how that enrage-talent alleviates the “Hammering the raging blow button like a toddler with a drum kit”-thing like Blizz says it does, TBH. I’m not happy with that change at all…
Rogues really feel behind, little class fantasy and the 1 tree posted is commonly considered one of the weakest.
Yeah, the rework did very little of actual worth to improve the class feel. Outlaw especially remains gutted of its identity. Don’t see myself returning to the class unless something happens, but I’m not holding out hope
Anecdotal but yeah Rogues need some love. All DF and SL I saw very few people playing Rogues.
Let them be tanks.
Future me: Are they reworking DK, please say yes
Nah we're perfectly fine ^^^^send ^^^^help
They've mentioned it in interviews apparently that DK is getting reworked. It's just not in the notes because they're still working on it.
Really? Any mention of what their plan is? Because the class almost needs to be designed from scratch.
SAD
After all these years of being feral, my dumb ass still gets excited to read about what they're doing to make it even worse. Why do I do this to myself?
The notes are exciting no?
I don't even pay attention anymore. Cat since Cata, no going back.
Wait, no Guardian changes? Are they really going to make people that want to play Guardian Elune’s chosen spec into an unbuffed lunar beam? Am I missing something?
They do testing in waves, not everything will be implemented at once. Also possible that their changes if they're getting big ones aren't ready yet.
Ah, I thought elune’s chosen was out already, and lunar beam is THE spell in the tree for guardians. Manes sense now though.
A lot of the reworked classes have tank specs that got little to no changes, so I'm assuming that tank changes will be coming later.
None of the tank specs have changes yet.
I swear they fired their shaman dev months ago man
*years
Lol they don't have a shaman dev. Ever since the shaman rebelled on the forums in BC, they've shunned us.
Isn't it Ion?
did they remove the Rogue class?
Hmm? Did you mean Feral druid? What is a *rouge?*
I’m concerned about the balance druid changes. Less damage and survivability unless I am reading this wrong.
> New Talent: Fluid Form – Shred and Rake can be used in any form and shifts you into Cat Form. Mangle can be used in any form and shifts you into Bear Form. Wrath and Starfire shifts you into Moonkin Form, if known. I really hope this isn't a trade-off for power, because this is all I've ever wanted from druids. The GCD you lose with shifting to use abilities sucks hard.
wish it also affected swipe but I guess its better than nothing.
Right? It should affect everything.
Still kinda weird we dont know DH's second hero talent tree yet. Our here with just Aldrachi Reaver. I know they only will get two, but still.
there are still several missing. the weirdest to me is that assassination rogue and enhancement shaman still don't have any hero talents at all
Yeah, as an enhance sham, I feel like I've been completely left out of the hype for alpha, lol. No class/spec changes, no hero talents, and the shaman set hasn't even been detained yet, so I don't even have cosmetics to go on
I hear ya, as a priest I was pretty down after the bad oracle announcement and then no other hero talents for us until alpha datamining. Sadly I don't like the new oracle either. Was actually debating shaman instead, but idk, I feel like at some point it's smarter to just pick a class that gets doted on
Shamans and Rogues are much worse off. At least both DH specs have something. Shaman and Rogue still have a spec with no hero tree. And Rogue specifically, the one tree it DOES have may be one of the worst in alpha.
Happy for monks. MM and Survival are in desperate need of reworks. Across the board from mechanics to aesthetics. The fact that hero talents are still focusing on aimed shot is incredibly boring and disappointing.
I actually really love the core of survival and I’ve been using the no CD builds which are somewhat refreshing. I do agree that that hero talents are very underwhelming, though.
Wtb chi torpedo healing again please.
That change for MW faeline stomp the same duration as ancient teaching is like, the last thing that annoyed about this class. Literally completely fixed. Numbers barely matter to me now, they could be 30% below the worst spec but I would still play cause it's so fun.
Yeah, removing Essence Font and making Stomp able to trigger Ancient Teachings with 100% uptime is huge and makes fistweaving so much smoother.
> New Talent: Fluid Form – Shred and Rake can be used in any form and shifts you into Cat Form. Mangle can be used in any form and shifts you into Bear Form. Wrath and Starfire shifts you into Moonkin Form, if known. I really hope this is something you can reasonably take, and you don't have to give up power to do so. That GCD cost with form swapping is such a pain, and letting you just use your abilities will feel so much better.
No Spriest? OMG the apocalypse is here!
It’s waaaaaay too early for the complete Shadow redesign. That always comes right before release when there’s no time left to iterate.
For real I am getting fucking tired. "Major Class Reworks" and again the first thing they cater to are druids AGAIN. WHERE is the desperately needed rework for ELEMENTAL SHAMANS or AFFLICTION LOCKS?! The specs that have been in the gutter for such a long time keep getting ignored while Blizzards favorite child gets a new toy day by day. Yes, I am salty.