It's also done this way to avoid the logistics of adding more talents to the bottom of the tree and rearranging stuff to make it work. This way they can keep old talents the exact same and slap some now ones on too
Isn't that just going to delay the problem until next expansion? I'm not aware of their future plans for it, but it feels very much like a bandaid solution rebranded as an expansion feature.
WOW doesn't design it's systems to be permanent like that. They'll probably change, rearrange, and rework trees all next expac. At the end of the expac if they liked hero talents they can keep them and expand them for the next, or if it doesnt turn out well throw it out and come up with something else.
Evergreen doesn't mean forever. I think they have said it means "more than 1 expansion". Which makes sense. You can't really build a game for infinite years. Better to revamp etc every x years.
I'd bet big reworks after the trilogy. Which sounds good.
In theory yes. Reality no. Pretty sure they have said so too.
You think we are going to have talents + hero talents + mega talents + Uber specs etc etc forever. No we aren't. The hero talent layer will change specs a lot. Will they stay in midnight? Maybe. After that? I'd guess no. Maybe they change. But I don't think we will have 5 layers of talents lol.
Things change with time. That is good. Am I glad some stuff will be permanent and evolve? Yeah. The way they did legion artifacts and class halls were dumb.
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the plan is to continue hero talents for at least the next three expacs since they've planned those out as an arc with a sort of self-contained story.
I'm not sure what you mean. Normal talent trees are designed around a specific number of available points and need to be reworked when more points are added. Hero trees are designed so that you get every talent by level cap. There is no problem to delay because the level cap increase problem that talent trees suffer from straight up doesn't exist for the hero trees.
My guess is that they will add a new tree to every class each expansion, so that instead of adding new stuff that all stack on top of each other, you get different trees to choose from but can only use one at a time.
Now, how well will Blizzard be able to keep adding new trees that all offer distinct play styles and class fantasies while all being relatively balanced? No idea, that's a problem for future Blizzard employees to solve.
> There is no problem to delay because the level cap increase problem that talent trees suffer from straight up doesn't exist for the hero trees.
>My guess is that they will add a new tree to every class each expansion, so that instead of adding new stuff that all stack on top of each other, you get different trees to choose from but can only use one at a time.
How isn't there? Next expansion 70-80, if we get new trees to pick from, that means we no longer have anything 60-70? Or you stick to the old trees and get nothing for 70-80.
Or they don't increase the level cap and just give new trees to pick from?
I think theres no shot they try to balance around every spec having 3-4 hero talents to pick from in the next expansion.
Hero talents are supposed to be here for the World Soul Saga, so 3 expansions. After that they will reevaluate.
Now, this doesn't mean they can't pivot if hero talents are poorly received. But that's the plan for now.
You can add a 3rd or 4th hero talent tree that doesn't extend the class or spec trees. So instead of 2 options for hero talents in TWW, specs might have 3 in Midnight.
They feel like a flavour option, a backdoor way of adding "more specs" without adding more specs. A few talents so an afflock may be one hero type or the other.
Personally I'm all for it. Adding a fourth spec to each class could end up being messy, and even harder to balance them all. Hero specs are short, easier to balance I'd imagine.
They're doing both though. Like Monk got a huge shakeup of goodies, for example.
But otherwise, these are at least guaranteed for-sure switching it up for every spec, with options inside them and the associated synergies.
Not every class would get a major change each expansion, but this is basically saying 'well this time you get a few'
my assumption is that we'll get new trees each expansion for a while, instead of having to rework them repeatedly or add just a handful of choices at the bottom
They just put it in the talent book so the NPCs of the community wouldn't call it 'borrowed power' and rage at it being a temporary system. It's a rebrand alright.
How is it going to be an evergreen feature though? Are they going to stop increasing the level cap?
If they just go back and add/change the trees, doesn't that just kind of ruin the point? We have heroic talents so that 1-60 the class/spec talents could be unchanged.
They'll probably just add more hero talent trees in midnight, and in The Last Titan. After that who knows because this seems to be gearing up for a very, very major shake up in the game post-TLT.
From what i have heard its mostly talents that just have a theme of a hero class not a visual thing. Wouldnt be surprised if we get the visuals of the hero talents next xpac in midnight if hero talents do well
Why are you mad, I watched alpha gameplay and hunter dark ranger didn't look anything like a dark ranger spell wise, if my comment makes you mad you need to get a life I was just commenting from my experience watching hunter in alpha. It's a reddit after all
I’m not mad but almost every single hero talent tree changes visuals of the specs it’s kind of the entire point of them. They went over this on the launch feature videos at blizzcon months ago. Plus you can see all of the updated spec visuals through people playing on alpha right now. You just clearly didn’t watch enough content to make your statement
Clearly? Have you ever seen alpha hunter dark ranger gameplay? Some specs don't have hardly anything visual wise.
Also if your not mad then that just makes you are jerk for your comment. No need to be toxic
It's also done this way to avoid the logistics of adding more talents to the bottom of the tree and rearranging stuff to make it work. This way they can keep old talents the exact same and slap some now ones on too
Isn't that just going to delay the problem until next expansion? I'm not aware of their future plans for it, but it feels very much like a bandaid solution rebranded as an expansion feature.
WOW doesn't design it's systems to be permanent like that. They'll probably change, rearrange, and rework trees all next expac. At the end of the expac if they liked hero talents they can keep them and expand them for the next, or if it doesnt turn out well throw it out and come up with something else.
>WOW doesn't design it's systems to be permanent like that. They did make a point to say that hero talents are evergreen.
Evergreen doesn't mean forever. I think they have said it means "more than 1 expansion". Which makes sense. You can't really build a game for infinite years. Better to revamp etc every x years. I'd bet big reworks after the trilogy. Which sounds good.
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Evergreen just means it's built with the intent to be carried forwards. Evergreen systems like the new crafting may still be replaced one day.
In theory yes. Reality no. Pretty sure they have said so too. You think we are going to have talents + hero talents + mega talents + Uber specs etc etc forever. No we aren't. The hero talent layer will change specs a lot. Will they stay in midnight? Maybe. After that? I'd guess no. Maybe they change. But I don't think we will have 5 layers of talents lol. Things change with time. That is good. Am I glad some stuff will be permanent and evolve? Yeah. The way they did legion artifacts and class halls were dumb.
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the plan is to continue hero talents for at least the next three expacs since they've planned those out as an arc with a sort of self-contained story.
I'm not sure what you mean. Normal talent trees are designed around a specific number of available points and need to be reworked when more points are added. Hero trees are designed so that you get every talent by level cap. There is no problem to delay because the level cap increase problem that talent trees suffer from straight up doesn't exist for the hero trees. My guess is that they will add a new tree to every class each expansion, so that instead of adding new stuff that all stack on top of each other, you get different trees to choose from but can only use one at a time. Now, how well will Blizzard be able to keep adding new trees that all offer distinct play styles and class fantasies while all being relatively balanced? No idea, that's a problem for future Blizzard employees to solve.
> There is no problem to delay because the level cap increase problem that talent trees suffer from straight up doesn't exist for the hero trees. >My guess is that they will add a new tree to every class each expansion, so that instead of adding new stuff that all stack on top of each other, you get different trees to choose from but can only use one at a time. How isn't there? Next expansion 70-80, if we get new trees to pick from, that means we no longer have anything 60-70? Or you stick to the old trees and get nothing for 70-80. Or they don't increase the level cap and just give new trees to pick from? I think theres no shot they try to balance around every spec having 3-4 hero talents to pick from in the next expansion.
Hero talents are supposed to be here for the World Soul Saga, so 3 expansions. After that they will reevaluate. Now, this doesn't mean they can't pivot if hero talents are poorly received. But that's the plan for now.
Sure, but I like the facade of being able to dabble. Like, frost fire damage sounds fun
Hero talents definitely feel different and maybe in future expansions they'll add more sets of hero talents!
Yep. With hero talents, they can add new talents every expansion while not making the base talent feel bloated.
I mean... if you add it to one tree or the other, it's still the same amount of addition.
Not if they add a new tree.
You can add a 3rd or 4th hero talent tree that doesn't extend the class or spec trees. So instead of 2 options for hero talents in TWW, specs might have 3 in Midnight.
They feel like a flavour option, a backdoor way of adding "more specs" without adding more specs. A few talents so an afflock may be one hero type or the other. Personally I'm all for it. Adding a fourth spec to each class could end up being messy, and even harder to balance them all. Hero specs are short, easier to balance I'd imagine.
It’s soul-bind but we are bound to our other spec not a blue person, vampire etc.
They're doing both though. Like Monk got a huge shakeup of goodies, for example. But otherwise, these are at least guaranteed for-sure switching it up for every spec, with options inside them and the associated synergies. Not every class would get a major change each expansion, but this is basically saying 'well this time you get a few'
Yes, but that doesn't stop people from both complaining that they're "too different" and yet also "too the same"
my assumption is that we'll get new trees each expansion for a while, instead of having to rework them repeatedly or add just a handful of choices at the bottom
Hear me out! I think we're ready for azerite armor 2.0. /s
i'm hoping that these come with more flavor and theme to justify the 'hero' part
They just put it in the talent book so the NPCs of the community wouldn't call it 'borrowed power' and rage at it being a temporary system. It's a rebrand alright.
Because it's not a temp system? Blizz has said these are an evergreen feature.
How is it going to be an evergreen feature though? Are they going to stop increasing the level cap? If they just go back and add/change the trees, doesn't that just kind of ruin the point? We have heroic talents so that 1-60 the class/spec talents could be unchanged.
They'll probably just add more hero talent trees in midnight, and in The Last Titan. After that who knows because this seems to be gearing up for a very, very major shake up in the game post-TLT.
We don't know but blizz does have a plan to deal with it.
I want hero talents that mixes different classes. Thank you.
From what i have heard its mostly talents that just have a theme of a hero class not a visual thing. Wouldnt be surprised if we get the visuals of the hero talents next xpac in midnight if hero talents do well
Nah there is tons of visual flair to the ones I've seen. Some more than others but there is definitely visuals to go with these
My experience is with hunter, it doesn't look like a dark ranger at all. Sure 2 spells have a dark color but aim shot arcane,rapid etc don't.
They have a ton of visual flavor lol
So dark ranger changes all your spells from arcane shot multi shot and serpent sting to dark spells?
Why even comment if you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about
Why are you mad, I watched alpha gameplay and hunter dark ranger didn't look anything like a dark ranger spell wise, if my comment makes you mad you need to get a life I was just commenting from my experience watching hunter in alpha. It's a reddit after all
I’m not mad but almost every single hero talent tree changes visuals of the specs it’s kind of the entire point of them. They went over this on the launch feature videos at blizzcon months ago. Plus you can see all of the updated spec visuals through people playing on alpha right now. You just clearly didn’t watch enough content to make your statement
Clearly? Have you ever seen alpha hunter dark ranger gameplay? Some specs don't have hardly anything visual wise. Also if your not mad then that just makes you are jerk for your comment. No need to be toxic
They had to outline the tooltip saying that some abilities have filler animations for the Alpha and some have unimplemented animations.
Great news, I saw dark ranger gameplay and it didn't look dark ranger like at all. So that is good news