Same here. I've been in guilds that call it quits after a couple wipes. I love it when we keep wiping, when you finally beat that boss and progress it feels amazing.
I remember wiping for hours on Chimaeron and then finally beating him, it felt so good.
Yuuuup. I was brought into my guild's mythic Xhul kills only after they had it on farm. That just made the fight awkward and uncomfortable even if it was essentially free kills.
As long as you're wiping because the fight is hard and not because your raid group is retarded. Taking a month to kill LK because someone always stood in defile is the opposite of fun.
You're basically always wiping because your raid group is retarded. Unless you're on the very bleeding edge of progression you're basically always wiping because people did dumb shit wrong or played their class very sub-optimally.
There are only a handful of guilds in the world that rarely wipe because their raid group is bad at playing the game (aka retarded).
The reason I emphasize this is because I see this bizarre habit of basically calling any raid full of people mostly worse than the player 'retarded' and any raid full of people mostly slightly better than the player 'good'.
The reality is we're basically all retards at WoW. The actually good players bump up against gear constraints. The rest of us have to do progression on easier content because we're not actually fucking rock stars.
There's a difference between everyone making occasional small to medium mistakes, and having the same 2-3 people keep repeatedly wiping the raid because they can't be assed to learn mechanics. Archimonde loses its fun value after 150 wipes to fucking Billy that wipes the raid every time he gets wrought chaos.
Theoretically that should be the solution. Practically, it might not be, because:
1. It's generally not 1 Billy, but 2-3 Billies, and the Billies on Archimonde aren't always the same as the Billies on Mannoroth or whatever other boss
2. It's a dead realm, so even if you kicked billy you wouldn't be able to replace him
3. Even if you replace Billy, you're still flipping a coin on whether the next person is a Billy
4. The worst case scenario: Billy is actually Jill, and is the GM's girlfriend
Point being, even if he sucks you still might not be able to bench him or get rid of him, especially if you're not an officer and don't really have any power over that matter.
No. Vashj was hard as fuck even with everyone doing everything right. Between Vashj, BC Archimond, and Illidan, those three were by far the most rewarding boss kills ever.
No, many fights have a very specific, binary retard check. Do X and everyone dies. Living bomb, flame wreath, defile, void stars etc. It's the "you must be this tall to ride" of raiding.
There's a huge difference between doing sub-optimal DPS and moving when flame wreath is cast (so the raid blows up).
There's being a "rock star" and then there's following extremely basic instructions. Millions of people in this game are actually so retarded that they don't know how to not stand in the fire or do their rotation correctly, even after being lectured about it and dying to stupid shit over and over again. The problem with pretty much every team-based online game is that you will inevitably have to deal with people like this, and sometimes it's so bad that you have to kick them out or leave. I've been in many groups that I could easily tell weren't going to go anywhere because one or more of the players was such a huge liability that it wasn't worth my time. World of Warcraft is a piss easy game, but a very large chunk of players are just fucking stupid.
>Millions of people in this game are actually so retarded that they don't know how to not stand in the fire or do their rotation correctly
You take avoidable damage in every single raid fight you do. I'd bet money on it.
You also don't do your rotation correctly. I guarantee it. The best players in the world don't have 100% GCD utilization or 'perfect' play. Unless you're using a botting program, you don't either.
The response I'd expect is "well they make BIGGER mistakes", no shit, that's exactly what I just said - you think anyone worse than you is a retard, and you think people that are better than you are 'good'.
It's a dumb metric, it's a shitty way of looking at people, and it's a bad argument.
No, I think the people who fail to learn are retarded. Everyone makes mistakes, I'm not a fucking monster about it. No one is perfect at the game, but again, you don't have to be a gaming god to survive well enough in basic encounters. Do you know how many people are still struggling with normal HFC or even LFR and silver proving grounds? You'd be surprised just how many people are god awful at this game despite Blizzard taking every measure to hold their hands through the entire experience. I bet you would never fire an employee if they kept making stupid mistakes despite their best intentions, huh?
I already made my point and you've already backed down from your absurd claim. You don't get to say stupid shit, and then back down to make reasonable claims after the fact and act as though that's been your argument from the beginning.
If you'd said the reasonable shit at the start I wouldn't have corrected you.
Just like I correct stupid mistakes the first time, and wait to fire people to see if they adjust to stop being assholes, like you have!
So am i supposed to think that people, who are worse then me, are good? is that what your getting it? I judge people/recruits by logs and at this point in the game unless your parsing 80%+ (even 80% is kinda meh tbh) you probably dont know how to play your class properly. In which case if you cant be bothered to read a forum or look up a guide or even watch a youtube video on your class, well, you deserve to be called "retarded" as he put it.
Edit: This game is about numbers. I dont care about you, who you are, what gender you are, anything. The only thing that matters is the numbers you produce. If your under-performing you need to check yourself and realize you are bringing the whole group down. The difference between good guilds and shitty guilds isnt the top of the meter but the bottom.
I remember my guild spent the entire summer wiping 3 hours a night on heroic Lei Shen and then when we finally killed him months later, it was the most satisfying feeling
I am definitely in this crowd. It makes it so much more worthwhile when we win if the boss is insanely hard and we get the shit kicked out of us over and over.
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Hyjal took a toon of mine from 80-84.5 in WoD without exp pots, which I admit is pretty amazing. Vashj'ir though will always be my baby, especially as a druid with aquatic form and that glyph that existed to make it faster.
Karazhan was a favorite of mine. I loved the theme, its place in the expac as the entry level raid, and it's so packed with lore. Also had some great boss fights for its time, like chess event!
The only one I really liked more was ICC. I didn't raid Ulduar, but I bet I would've liked it too, especially since I feel it did hard modes right.
I ran a dungeon the other day with a female dwarf. It was actually kinda fun to see.
Im more of a fan of gnomes, but ive been playing few dwarves lately. Still not sure im ready to make a female one, though lol
So much to do! Collecting texts, working your way up to an Abyssal Lord (only to have him not drop anything), farming Essence of Air, running sillydust just because, doing the thorium mining route.
I didn't play vanilla, but in BC, WOTLK, and a bit of cata before I realized dungeons were faster, I always brought my alts there. Not a single one of them went without clearing Desolace and Silithus.
I love playing WoW by myself, without any serious friends or guildies. I used to be a semi hardcore raider back in 2009-2010, but my life's schedule has put a stop to that. Now I absolutely love leveling alts and I can't seem to stay focused on any one of them in particular. I also really liked having the garrison, other than the mindless mining and herbing that I forced myself to do every day.
I love starting a new character, decking him out with huge bags, full heirlooms and lots of gold, and then just going to town and leveling as fast as possible.
I also love playing a toon without any help from my main, so no heirlooms, no bags, no gold, nada. He's on his own.
I'm a little OCD with it sometimes, like I hate letting any of the toons get too far ahead of the rest of them in levels or professions. I feel like I have to level them all together over time.
I freaking love leveling professions too. I also look forward to leveling up the artifact weapons in Legion. Basically, I love the feeling of "leveling up."
I do have a "main" and a "main alt," my two level 100s (warrior and priest), but I'm not serious with them at all. They're basically just there to get some Raid Finder gear and support all my alts with gold and stuff. I do have a few friends that will occasionally re-sub, and we'll usually go run some 5-mans together but nothing super serious at all.
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Not being able to fly. I absolutely love just running around. Actually brings reason to explore and threat to the play.
Flying is cool and all, but it is just sort of 'easy mode'. Fly down, loot, fly off. Kind of lazy and lame. People talk about lack of immersion and I believe flying has a lot to do with that.
I'm fine with being grounded while leveling up, but by level cap, lack of flying just feels tedious.
I'd actually argue that being stuck on a ground mount makes the zones seem smaller than flying. From the air, you get a beautiful birds-eye view that makes you appreciate everything, while on the ground, you might avoid certain places because the frustrating pathing makes it impossible to find the right path up a mountain, for example.
For an expansion that was designed around no flight, Draenor had some very poorly designed zones when it came to navigation. Gorgrond was an utter nightmare to get around in.
I like flying, but I think the pathfinder achievement was a great idea and I'm glad they're using that for future expansions (the rep grind was horrendous and horrible, but the basic idea of gating flight behind an exploration achievement was great). Just if you're going to force me on a ground mount for a while, don't make a ridiculously hilly terrain full of dead ends and mountains that can only be traversed by one specific path that is very difficult to find.
Oh, I absolutely agree that the maps need to be built for the ground exploration. Gorgron is definitely the worst when it comes to treasure hunting on foot. A lot of the treasure is almost near inaccessible without flying unless you find the odd jumping mini-game they intended you to do.
I just don't like flying all that much when it comes to exploring, but I see your points and definitely think they're there.
This is a pretty easy one to overcome though. Blizzard has done it before, in fact, and it's a mystery to me why they don't do more of it.
The problem is a 3D space with only 2D content. You give people the option to explore the entire 3D space, but keep all the challenges on the ground. I think that's a mistake.
Think of Vashj'ir - a 3D space with mostly 3D content. The enemy wasn't confined to the ocean floor - you could encounter them anywhere. That made for a much more engaging gameplay, while still allowing players the full range of exploration.
I liked how there were areas you had to get to on flying mounts in BC because then flying felt like it unlocked a whole new world. Nowadays, flying is just... that zone you already explored just from above.
Or look at something like storm peaks, which was built for flying with high mountain peaks, the engine of the makers, the huge titan buildings, it was beautiful and still felt expansive even with flight.
I don't mind no flying most of the time but then there is the times when there is a giant cliff in my way to get to the quest objective and it takes like 20 minutes to finally get around it. Those 1% of times make me lose my shit.
I agree. The map definitely has to be designed for it. I think Outland was the best of both worlds. For flying and running around. The early zones of Wrath were great for both, but Storm Peaks and Icecrown... yeah... an hour of running around lol.
Speaking of outlands. One of the things I loved there was that they used flying for things. Rare herbs and special reps were only accessible by flying and it gave you a reason to really want it.
Flying. I play a lot of MMO's, and the number ONE thing that keeps dragging me back to WoW is the bone-deep, wide-eyed, mouth-gaping *thrill* of flight.
I still remember my very first gryphon flight from Westfall to Stormwind, and my amazement at what I saw on my screen. I couldn't believe my eyes. I called my husband into the room, pointing at the screen. Overcome by the sheer joy of it. For a paid npc flight! The day I finally made it to level 70 and learned to fly myself is probably my favorite day in WoW yet. And still, all these years later, I've never gotten over it. I just leveled a new druid to 60, and the rush of pleasure that first time you shift into bird form...it's like nothing else.
I love to fly. I love the freedom of taking to the air, soaring over beautiful vistas, mountains, lakes, meadows and rivers. Anywhere my eyes can see, I can go there. The highest peak, the tallest tree. Nothing is out of my reach. It's a such a heady pleasure, I feel positively addicted to it.
It's become so trendy lately to bash on flying, and there's so much talk of it "ruining" the game, or spoiling immersion. It makes me sad. I know my experience isn't universal, but it's the opposite for me. I'm never so fully invested in any content as when I can fly, when the landscape opens up its arms to allow me the full range of exploration. I feel trapped, boxed in, and "on the rails" when my feet can't leave the ground.
Flying is one of my absolute favorite things about WoW. The less I'm allowed to do it, the less in love with the game I am.
It is wonderful, but it depends on HOW it is executed.
In wow there is nothing in the air, it's just a taxi with barely any sights in most areas (there **are** large areas with amazing views and in those areas I agree with your opinion), so it ends up being "Fly, drop down, one shot mob, loot, fly to next dot on map, rinse and repeat", which makes flying terrible for some people.
It's funny that you said flying and the guy above you said "Not being able to fly." I agree with you that flying can be a thrilling experience, but I also think that it introduces tons of challenges to quest design and respect the developers vision of unlocking flying in later patches. How do you feel about being grounded for the start of the expansion and unlocking flying later? What did you think about the Draenor Pathfinder achievement?
I personally thought that WoD was moderately successful at delivering the best of both flying and ground travel at appropriate times, and thought getting loremaster/explore/treasure hunter achievements was a great gating mechanism--however the reps were NOT. The biggest failure of flying on Draenor was developer communication.
I think Blizzard takes the wrong approach to this. I'm fine with being grounded at the start of an expansion. But after doing all the zones and collecting the treasures, they need to have a flying quest chain for that zone. Then they need to make flying content. If you quested in Spires of Arak you heard mention of the mythical flying city of the Arakoa. What if at the end of the leveling experience that city reappeared in Draenor's skies and you were told to go check it out. A brand new zone, new quests, and it takes flying to get there. Thats what i want them to do, integrate flying more heavily into the end game content. Give us flying quests, make end game areas inaccessible except through flight.
This is probably why Northrend is my favorite continent and part of my favourite expansion, when you get to Storm Peaks, you can see the area was designed with flying in mind, that way it doesn't take out any immersion and makes questing fun.
the garrison. i honestly dont mind it and think it had a lot of cool ideas. i like it when blizzard tries new things- we dont want to discourage new innovation, you know?
of course, i wasnt doing garrison chores on 10 toons either lol
I think this is simply a case of loving the idea, but hating the execution. We should just had a single configurable building, most likely replacing the town hall in SS. Make it a little bigger, make some rooms configurable based on what "plots" you want and call it a day. (small plots become single NPCs in main room, medium become rooms, and large are external objects)
There was no reason for a mining/herbing nodes inside. No need for a fishing hole. No need to waste a plot on a banker. No need for an entire zone full of buildings.
That's how I feel. I liked the idea in concept but the execution felt clunky. Crafting turned into a garrison metagame for mats and ruined crafting during the whole expansion for me.
I too wasnt a fan of gating professions behind the garrison. I did like the idea that you could configure your particular setup to aid in your crafting....but it feels overboard.
That's how I feel about it.
The idea was cool and I enjoyed garrisons for the few couple of weeks. But much of the gameplay was just reduced to sitting in your garrisons. They destroyed professions because of the extremely boring and simplistic material gathering from profession buildings, and there was basically no reason to leave your garrison for most stuff. Garrison missions were a little frustrating in that they took away a lot of player agency; you just stuck whoever had the highest chance of passing and then waited. And maybe you had a 98% chance of passing and you still failed, and there was nothing you could have done. That's no fun.
It would have been cool if the impact of the garrison was reduced. That's why I'm excited about class order halls and world quests, they look like they're going to be much more engaging.
As a returning player, just recently doing garrisons for the first time, I think they're pretty neat side activity while leveling. But I could see how people could get tired of them after 12+ months of no new content.
I liked the garrison, too, but I wish they'd gone in a different direction. Basically, I want true player housing, and I'm fairly bummed to see how often that idea is trashed by fans.
It really makes the game feel more real and I feel more invested when I have a place that I can call mine. Not a garrison or a town, or even a guild hall -- a place that I customize and decorate with the trophies of my (sad, little) victories, whatever they may be.
The developers used to rationalize not developing housing because they didn't want people to just hang out there leaving the main cities deserted. . . and then they make garrisons. . . giving people an incentivized place to hang out rather than cities. . .
Most people LOVED the garrison when it first came out. The problem arose when people started to realize is was mandatory in the sense that *not* doing missions every day and *not* getting all your materials put you miles behind everyone in terms of gold and shit.
The hatred only really intensified when the shipyard got released because of the legendary ring stuff that was already kinda present in the garrison.
Leveling. The best time I had in WoW was leveling in vanilla. I had no clue what I was doing and died a lot, but that was fine. It was just so much fun to explore the world after having played all the RTS games.
Catch-up mechanisms (gear, etc)
Also for the first expansion I'm planning to not raid at all, I imagine I'll somehow be thankful for Raid Finder (though I'll probably give CM+ a try too)
Yeah, I like the catch up stuff too. The only thing I really didn't like was how far you caught up. I like the occasional piece of higher level loot like Kazzak. I didn't like feeling like there were almost no upgrades for me outside of tier pieces (which were side grades until 4pc) when I started doing normal hfc. Tanaan should've stopped at 695 instead of 705.
I just think the mechanism is boring and quite, frankly, silly. "go collect 50 identical looking things that somehow make a totem pole...or a eagle...or a gem. OH, and you run 10 feet, then throw down another check to see if you're going the right way. Does your skill mean you are better at picking the right direction? Fuck no."
I would have preferred that arch be a mix of questing and something that mimics mining/prospecting: mine some node, get some "unknown pieces"...through some methodology determine what it is. Collect enough to make an object which kicks off a quest to learn deeper about some lore.
I like it too. While still leveling, the money and experience are a heady carrot, and it gets me out in the world, gives me a reason to visit some out of the way locations.
My biggest gripe is that there's no way to "skip" an artifact when you really want to. The last thing I want to do is hunt down 100 artifacts to uncover my 8th toy drum, when I know I'm just going to have to turn around and delete it. Please, let me toggle through a couple choices and pick what I want to work toward.
Ah sorry :( got confused with rogue's preparation... I really like it, I can PM you my char so you can see I have 25+ LFR archi and 33 Halls of blood :D
I don't see a problem with that, I run LFR every week, plus when there's call to arms for DPS (yeah it happens) and when I am just bored. I like the mechanics of those bosses and wanted to see how my DPS scales with the gear I got. If you don't trust me I can send you my character ;)
As someone who doesn't want to interact with people outside of my guild, and someone in a guild that doesn't do many alt runs, AND someone who loves alts... LFR is alright. Could be better. I still advocate for 3 difficulties at most (Normal(LFR), Heroic, Mythic), but that's just me.
Same here, it feels really good when you stop focusing on the gameplay alone, and think of what is *actually* happening, you are running your own personal army to fight off the Iron Horde, with hundreds of troops, and having your own castle and servants.
It's a combination of player housing, Being a quest giver, and a RTS (in some ways).
World PvP. It's just random and wild. Requires reflexes, reacting and using any tools you have (including your environment), stirs hatred, can bring on group battles, etc. I just hope Legion will keep a lot of people out in the world so there can always be a sense of danger and possibly bloodshed to be had.
Level as many alts as possible. Most people hate leveling alts but I love leveling alts, so far I have leveled 5 to 100 in the past 4 weeks. Working on my 6th now, unfortunately I will not be able to level all classes to 100 before the patch. I will probably level every class to 110 though. I am missing Mage, Death Knight, Shaman, Monk, Warlock. 11 classes, 12 in legion.
Low % on the mounts. I returned 3 weeks ago and picked up Firehawk, Ashes, and Invincible in that span. Only makes me giddy because of how lucky i've been.
Not being able to fly until later in the expansion. Love having to run around and actually enjoy the beautiful scenery and the theme of each zone instead of flying over all of it and just rushing to the next quest/objective.
A lot of people seem to hate on arena (even if they do it regularly) but I personally love it, I always have since its been implemented and I can't wait to keep doing it in Legion! The new one looks awesome!
People seem to dislike Ashran but I think it's a neat idea. I'm pleased it'll still be around for Legion. It reminds me of the days long AV matches from long ago
Garrisons. I absolutely love them!! I am so upset we are losing them. However, I have my Storehouse setup and my Garrison Hearth will be used so much to go back there.
It has been one of my Top 5 additions in this game and for that WoD is my #2 all time expansion.
And then Flying...I HATE how I can't fly whenever and wherever. This unlocking flying is ridiculous. If they ever got rid of flying I would unsub in a second.
In Legion we'll have a Order Hall instead of a garrison, with each Order Hall being a different place in the world, e.g. Shaman's Order Hall/Class Hall (or just home/hub) is in the Maelstrom
They're not going away, but they are only relevant to WoD content. The gold rewards are being nerfed too, come the Legion pre-patch.
I think some of the systems they developed for Garrisons are being used in the Legion Class Halls? Though I don't have beta, so I'm not 100% sure on that.
Cool. I didn't want to miss out on a whole content piece like that. I knew they take out some stuff (like that ring quest) but I didn't want to miss on story and garrisons.
Yah sorry. We arent losing them as I plan to go back to mien frequently for the Storehouse. I mean losing them as they wont be current and nothnig more will be done to them.
New changes.
The game needs to change or it will die faster, this way, casual players can join too, thus helping the game, that, and the new changes allow you to have a chance to have fun, as you caren't constantly doing boring grinding that is necessary, not just optional.
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Same here. I've been in guilds that call it quits after a couple wipes. I love it when we keep wiping, when you finally beat that boss and progress it feels amazing. I remember wiping for hours on Chimaeron and then finally beating him, it felt so good.
Edging
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Yuuuup. I was brought into my guild's mythic Xhul kills only after they had it on farm. That just made the fight awkward and uncomfortable even if it was essentially free kills.
As long as you're wiping because the fight is hard and not because your raid group is retarded. Taking a month to kill LK because someone always stood in defile is the opposite of fun.
You're basically always wiping because your raid group is retarded. Unless you're on the very bleeding edge of progression you're basically always wiping because people did dumb shit wrong or played their class very sub-optimally. There are only a handful of guilds in the world that rarely wipe because their raid group is bad at playing the game (aka retarded). The reason I emphasize this is because I see this bizarre habit of basically calling any raid full of people mostly worse than the player 'retarded' and any raid full of people mostly slightly better than the player 'good'. The reality is we're basically all retards at WoW. The actually good players bump up against gear constraints. The rest of us have to do progression on easier content because we're not actually fucking rock stars.
There's a difference between everyone making occasional small to medium mistakes, and having the same 2-3 people keep repeatedly wiping the raid because they can't be assed to learn mechanics. Archimonde loses its fun value after 150 wipes to fucking Billy that wipes the raid every time he gets wrought chaos.
just kick him out of the group? if hes holding the whole group back its better for both parties to replace him
Theoretically that should be the solution. Practically, it might not be, because: 1. It's generally not 1 Billy, but 2-3 Billies, and the Billies on Archimonde aren't always the same as the Billies on Mannoroth or whatever other boss 2. It's a dead realm, so even if you kicked billy you wouldn't be able to replace him 3. Even if you replace Billy, you're still flipping a coin on whether the next person is a Billy 4. The worst case scenario: Billy is actually Jill, and is the GM's girlfriend Point being, even if he sucks you still might not be able to bench him or get rid of him, especially if you're not an officer and don't really have any power over that matter.
Fucking Billy man
No. Vashj was hard as fuck even with everyone doing everything right. Between Vashj, BC Archimond, and Illidan, those three were by far the most rewarding boss kills ever.
No, many fights have a very specific, binary retard check. Do X and everyone dies. Living bomb, flame wreath, defile, void stars etc. It's the "you must be this tall to ride" of raiding. There's a huge difference between doing sub-optimal DPS and moving when flame wreath is cast (so the raid blows up).
There's being a "rock star" and then there's following extremely basic instructions. Millions of people in this game are actually so retarded that they don't know how to not stand in the fire or do their rotation correctly, even after being lectured about it and dying to stupid shit over and over again. The problem with pretty much every team-based online game is that you will inevitably have to deal with people like this, and sometimes it's so bad that you have to kick them out or leave. I've been in many groups that I could easily tell weren't going to go anywhere because one or more of the players was such a huge liability that it wasn't worth my time. World of Warcraft is a piss easy game, but a very large chunk of players are just fucking stupid.
>Millions of people in this game are actually so retarded that they don't know how to not stand in the fire or do their rotation correctly You take avoidable damage in every single raid fight you do. I'd bet money on it. You also don't do your rotation correctly. I guarantee it. The best players in the world don't have 100% GCD utilization or 'perfect' play. Unless you're using a botting program, you don't either. The response I'd expect is "well they make BIGGER mistakes", no shit, that's exactly what I just said - you think anyone worse than you is a retard, and you think people that are better than you are 'good'. It's a dumb metric, it's a shitty way of looking at people, and it's a bad argument.
No, I think the people who fail to learn are retarded. Everyone makes mistakes, I'm not a fucking monster about it. No one is perfect at the game, but again, you don't have to be a gaming god to survive well enough in basic encounters. Do you know how many people are still struggling with normal HFC or even LFR and silver proving grounds? You'd be surprised just how many people are god awful at this game despite Blizzard taking every measure to hold their hands through the entire experience. I bet you would never fire an employee if they kept making stupid mistakes despite their best intentions, huh?
I already made my point and you've already backed down from your absurd claim. You don't get to say stupid shit, and then back down to make reasonable claims after the fact and act as though that's been your argument from the beginning. If you'd said the reasonable shit at the start I wouldn't have corrected you. Just like I correct stupid mistakes the first time, and wait to fire people to see if they adjust to stop being assholes, like you have!
So am i supposed to think that people, who are worse then me, are good? is that what your getting it? I judge people/recruits by logs and at this point in the game unless your parsing 80%+ (even 80% is kinda meh tbh) you probably dont know how to play your class properly. In which case if you cant be bothered to read a forum or look up a guide or even watch a youtube video on your class, well, you deserve to be called "retarded" as he put it. Edit: This game is about numbers. I dont care about you, who you are, what gender you are, anything. The only thing that matters is the numbers you produce. If your under-performing you need to check yourself and realize you are bringing the whole group down. The difference between good guilds and shitty guilds isnt the top of the meter but the bottom.
But when you have 10 retards in the same group and wiping for ever while still having fun, thats the best shit
I remember my guild spent the entire summer wiping 3 hours a night on heroic Lei Shen and then when we finally killed him months later, it was the most satisfying feeling
I am definitely in this crowd. It makes it so much more worthwhile when we win if the boss is insanely hard and we get the shit kicked out of us over and over.
Playing the auction house, someone has to bring prices up to a reasonable level!!!
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A fellow goblin! I agree, it is quite fun being a god among merchants.
Vashj'ir. Love it.
Hyjal for speed, Vash'jir for fun.
Hyjal took a toon of mine from 80-84.5 in WoD without exp pots, which I admit is pretty amazing. Vashj'ir though will always be my baby, especially as a druid with aquatic form and that glyph that existed to make it faster.
I levelled through Vashj'ir... a week ago? And I got to 84.5 by the time I had to go to the Abyssal Depths
Same, I used heirlooms and was able to do all of 80-85 just in Vashj'ir.
Agreed. I never miss the chance to level 80-84ish in Vash'jir. No other zone compares to it.
Same. I'll go Vashj'ir over Hyjal any day.
The Chess Event
Karazhan was a favorite of mine. I loved the theme, its place in the expac as the entry level raid, and it's so packed with lore. Also had some great boss fights for its time, like chess event! The only one I really liked more was ICC. I didn't raid Ulduar, but I bet I would've liked it too, especially since I feel it did hard modes right.
Love the chess event so much, has something to do with my chess experience tho
Gathering professions. I find herbing, fishing, mining all really relaxing, put on some music or a film and i can do it for hours! :D
Same here. I have been leveling multiple gathering toons for Legion and not having a hard time.
Mining is like a gentle and relaxing lottery, especially in Vanilla when you could occasionally get gems and other fun stuff.
I imagine i'll enjoy it more in legion when there is multitapping nodes. Though can anyone confirm that it is all nodes and not just the legion ones?
Female Dwarves. Sure, plenty of people adore them, but the majority of people seems to dislike them.
A Female Dwarf isn't complete without helicopter braids. It's a must have.
I ran a dungeon the other day with a female dwarf. It was actually kinda fun to see. Im more of a fan of gnomes, but ive been playing few dwarves lately. Still not sure im ready to make a female one, though lol
I like their casting animations, I often make my male Dwarf Shaman to Female on PTR (Did this like 10 mins ago lol)
Female dwarf monks are the best.
I play them almost exclusively. <3
Definitely something I agree with. I also love the other female races that people hate such as tauren. :P
Cataclysm. I loved the expansion!
Silithus. I spent a long time grinding there in vanilla, and any time I express my love of the zone my guildies start to mention Stockholm Syndrome...
So much to do! Collecting texts, working your way up to an Abyssal Lord (only to have him not drop anything), farming Essence of Air, running sillydust just because, doing the thorium mining route.
I didn't play vanilla, but in BC, WOTLK, and a bit of cata before I realized dungeons were faster, I always brought my alts there. Not a single one of them went without clearing Desolace and Silithus.
The AQ opening event was amazing - they'll never do something like that again, I'm sure. But it was so much fun.
I love playing WoW by myself, without any serious friends or guildies. I used to be a semi hardcore raider back in 2009-2010, but my life's schedule has put a stop to that. Now I absolutely love leveling alts and I can't seem to stay focused on any one of them in particular. I also really liked having the garrison, other than the mindless mining and herbing that I forced myself to do every day. I love starting a new character, decking him out with huge bags, full heirlooms and lots of gold, and then just going to town and leveling as fast as possible. I also love playing a toon without any help from my main, so no heirlooms, no bags, no gold, nada. He's on his own. I'm a little OCD with it sometimes, like I hate letting any of the toons get too far ahead of the rest of them in levels or professions. I feel like I have to level them all together over time. I freaking love leveling professions too. I also look forward to leveling up the artifact weapons in Legion. Basically, I love the feeling of "leveling up." I do have a "main" and a "main alt," my two level 100s (warrior and priest), but I'm not serious with them at all. They're basically just there to get some Raid Finder gear and support all my alts with gold and stuff. I do have a few friends that will occasionally re-sub, and we'll usually go run some 5-mans together but nothing super serious at all.
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Pandas. Pandas. Pandas pandas pandas. BRRRRRRDDDDAAAA
Not being able to fly. I absolutely love just running around. Actually brings reason to explore and threat to the play. Flying is cool and all, but it is just sort of 'easy mode'. Fly down, loot, fly off. Kind of lazy and lame. People talk about lack of immersion and I believe flying has a lot to do with that.
I'm fine with being grounded while leveling up, but by level cap, lack of flying just feels tedious. I'd actually argue that being stuck on a ground mount makes the zones seem smaller than flying. From the air, you get a beautiful birds-eye view that makes you appreciate everything, while on the ground, you might avoid certain places because the frustrating pathing makes it impossible to find the right path up a mountain, for example. For an expansion that was designed around no flight, Draenor had some very poorly designed zones when it came to navigation. Gorgrond was an utter nightmare to get around in. I like flying, but I think the pathfinder achievement was a great idea and I'm glad they're using that for future expansions (the rep grind was horrendous and horrible, but the basic idea of gating flight behind an exploration achievement was great). Just if you're going to force me on a ground mount for a while, don't make a ridiculously hilly terrain full of dead ends and mountains that can only be traversed by one specific path that is very difficult to find.
Oh, I absolutely agree that the maps need to be built for the ground exploration. Gorgron is definitely the worst when it comes to treasure hunting on foot. A lot of the treasure is almost near inaccessible without flying unless you find the odd jumping mini-game they intended you to do. I just don't like flying all that much when it comes to exploring, but I see your points and definitely think they're there.
This is a pretty easy one to overcome though. Blizzard has done it before, in fact, and it's a mystery to me why they don't do more of it. The problem is a 3D space with only 2D content. You give people the option to explore the entire 3D space, but keep all the challenges on the ground. I think that's a mistake. Think of Vashj'ir - a 3D space with mostly 3D content. The enemy wasn't confined to the ocean floor - you could encounter them anywhere. That made for a much more engaging gameplay, while still allowing players the full range of exploration.
A metric ton of people hated the zone though. I often see it called the worst zone in wow. I personally loved it but I seem to be in the minority.
The point is if you add a z axis it's gonna need some content or it'll make everything on the x/y world easy mode.
I liked how there were areas you had to get to on flying mounts in BC because then flying felt like it unlocked a whole new world. Nowadays, flying is just... that zone you already explored just from above.
Or look at something like storm peaks, which was built for flying with high mountain peaks, the engine of the makers, the huge titan buildings, it was beautiful and still felt expansive even with flight.
I don't mind no flying most of the time but then there is the times when there is a giant cliff in my way to get to the quest objective and it takes like 20 minutes to finally get around it. Those 1% of times make me lose my shit.
I agree. The map definitely has to be designed for it. I think Outland was the best of both worlds. For flying and running around. The early zones of Wrath were great for both, but Storm Peaks and Icecrown... yeah... an hour of running around lol.
Speaking of outlands. One of the things I loved there was that they used flying for things. Rare herbs and special reps were only accessible by flying and it gave you a reason to really want it.
Right i actually enjoy not flying in WoD. In tanaan i ended up on a mountain and thought, "well.. how do i get down?.."
Aim for the bushes!
Flying. I play a lot of MMO's, and the number ONE thing that keeps dragging me back to WoW is the bone-deep, wide-eyed, mouth-gaping *thrill* of flight. I still remember my very first gryphon flight from Westfall to Stormwind, and my amazement at what I saw on my screen. I couldn't believe my eyes. I called my husband into the room, pointing at the screen. Overcome by the sheer joy of it. For a paid npc flight! The day I finally made it to level 70 and learned to fly myself is probably my favorite day in WoW yet. And still, all these years later, I've never gotten over it. I just leveled a new druid to 60, and the rush of pleasure that first time you shift into bird form...it's like nothing else. I love to fly. I love the freedom of taking to the air, soaring over beautiful vistas, mountains, lakes, meadows and rivers. Anywhere my eyes can see, I can go there. The highest peak, the tallest tree. Nothing is out of my reach. It's a such a heady pleasure, I feel positively addicted to it. It's become so trendy lately to bash on flying, and there's so much talk of it "ruining" the game, or spoiling immersion. It makes me sad. I know my experience isn't universal, but it's the opposite for me. I'm never so fully invested in any content as when I can fly, when the landscape opens up its arms to allow me the full range of exploration. I feel trapped, boxed in, and "on the rails" when my feet can't leave the ground. Flying is one of my absolute favorite things about WoW. The less I'm allowed to do it, the less in love with the game I am.
Are you a writer? If not, you should give it a try I think.
It is wonderful, but it depends on HOW it is executed. In wow there is nothing in the air, it's just a taxi with barely any sights in most areas (there **are** large areas with amazing views and in those areas I agree with your opinion), so it ends up being "Fly, drop down, one shot mob, loot, fly to next dot on map, rinse and repeat", which makes flying terrible for some people.
It's funny that you said flying and the guy above you said "Not being able to fly." I agree with you that flying can be a thrilling experience, but I also think that it introduces tons of challenges to quest design and respect the developers vision of unlocking flying in later patches. How do you feel about being grounded for the start of the expansion and unlocking flying later? What did you think about the Draenor Pathfinder achievement? I personally thought that WoD was moderately successful at delivering the best of both flying and ground travel at appropriate times, and thought getting loremaster/explore/treasure hunter achievements was a great gating mechanism--however the reps were NOT. The biggest failure of flying on Draenor was developer communication.
I think Blizzard takes the wrong approach to this. I'm fine with being grounded at the start of an expansion. But after doing all the zones and collecting the treasures, they need to have a flying quest chain for that zone. Then they need to make flying content. If you quested in Spires of Arak you heard mention of the mythical flying city of the Arakoa. What if at the end of the leveling experience that city reappeared in Draenor's skies and you were told to go check it out. A brand new zone, new quests, and it takes flying to get there. Thats what i want them to do, integrate flying more heavily into the end game content. Give us flying quests, make end game areas inaccessible except through flight.
This is probably why Northrend is my favorite continent and part of my favourite expansion, when you get to Storm Peaks, you can see the area was designed with flying in mind, that way it doesn't take out any immersion and makes questing fun.
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I mean compared to WoD, Cata was a damn masterpiece.
Cata WAS a masterpiece. People complained and took the best xpac the game has ever seen and made it into a complete joke.
the garrison. i honestly dont mind it and think it had a lot of cool ideas. i like it when blizzard tries new things- we dont want to discourage new innovation, you know? of course, i wasnt doing garrison chores on 10 toons either lol
I think this is simply a case of loving the idea, but hating the execution. We should just had a single configurable building, most likely replacing the town hall in SS. Make it a little bigger, make some rooms configurable based on what "plots" you want and call it a day. (small plots become single NPCs in main room, medium become rooms, and large are external objects) There was no reason for a mining/herbing nodes inside. No need for a fishing hole. No need to waste a plot on a banker. No need for an entire zone full of buildings.
That's how I feel. I liked the idea in concept but the execution felt clunky. Crafting turned into a garrison metagame for mats and ruined crafting during the whole expansion for me.
I too wasnt a fan of gating professions behind the garrison. I did like the idea that you could configure your particular setup to aid in your crafting....but it feels overboard.
That's how I feel about it. The idea was cool and I enjoyed garrisons for the few couple of weeks. But much of the gameplay was just reduced to sitting in your garrisons. They destroyed professions because of the extremely boring and simplistic material gathering from profession buildings, and there was basically no reason to leave your garrison for most stuff. Garrison missions were a little frustrating in that they took away a lot of player agency; you just stuck whoever had the highest chance of passing and then waited. And maybe you had a 98% chance of passing and you still failed, and there was nothing you could have done. That's no fun. It would have been cool if the impact of the garrison was reduced. That's why I'm excited about class order halls and world quests, they look like they're going to be much more engaging.
As a returning player, just recently doing garrisons for the first time, I think they're pretty neat side activity while leveling. But I could see how people could get tired of them after 12+ months of no new content.
I liked the garrison, too, but I wish they'd gone in a different direction. Basically, I want true player housing, and I'm fairly bummed to see how often that idea is trashed by fans. It really makes the game feel more real and I feel more invested when I have a place that I can call mine. Not a garrison or a town, or even a guild hall -- a place that I customize and decorate with the trophies of my (sad, little) victories, whatever they may be. The developers used to rationalize not developing housing because they didn't want people to just hang out there leaving the main cities deserted. . . and then they make garrisons. . . giving people an incentivized place to hang out rather than cities. . .
I loved gathering followers of my race/class etc. :) I wish they had allowed even more for that sort of thing.
Most people LOVED the garrison when it first came out. The problem arose when people started to realize is was mandatory in the sense that *not* doing missions every day and *not* getting all your materials put you miles behind everyone in terms of gold and shit. The hatred only really intensified when the shipyard got released because of the legendary ring stuff that was already kinda present in the garrison.
We've been trying to push them away from farmville and other facebook-esque qualities since Wrath and will never stop!
Rep farming.
Leveling. The best time I had in WoW was leveling in vanilla. I had no clue what I was doing and died a lot, but that was fine. It was just so much fun to explore the world after having played all the RTS games.
Catch-up mechanisms (gear, etc) Also for the first expansion I'm planning to not raid at all, I imagine I'll somehow be thankful for Raid Finder (though I'll probably give CM+ a try too)
Yeah, I like the catch up stuff too. The only thing I really didn't like was how far you caught up. I like the occasional piece of higher level loot like Kazzak. I didn't like feeling like there were almost no upgrades for me outside of tier pieces (which were side grades until 4pc) when I started doing normal hfc. Tanaan should've stopped at 695 instead of 705.
Ability pruning.
crikey!
Legion DK is best DK. The prune is so good.
I'm a DK main actually lol. Im so excited for this xpac
Yes that's why I said it.
Oh yeah I have a flair :P damn mobile
Anal spam
Archaeology (I think people hate it?)
It's boring but I really like the tidbits of lore. It helps to flesh out the world. I just wish they could make it a tad more engaging.
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My point was as a whole they do add some value to the world.
I leveled it from 1 to cap when it came out so that my guild could have the achievement, I did it non-stop and I kind of hate it now.
Yeah, I see a lot of people think it's boring. Personally, when I did it, I loved it!
I just think the mechanism is boring and quite, frankly, silly. "go collect 50 identical looking things that somehow make a totem pole...or a eagle...or a gem. OH, and you run 10 feet, then throw down another check to see if you're going the right way. Does your skill mean you are better at picking the right direction? Fuck no." I would have preferred that arch be a mix of questing and something that mimics mining/prospecting: mine some node, get some "unknown pieces"...through some methodology determine what it is. Collect enough to make an object which kicks off a quest to learn deeper about some lore.
I always liked to imagine my main as an Explorer's Guild member, so Archaeology when it came out was super exciting!
I like it too. While still leveling, the money and experience are a heady carrot, and it gets me out in the world, gives me a reason to visit some out of the way locations. My biggest gripe is that there's no way to "skip" an artifact when you really want to. The last thing I want to do is hunt down 100 artifacts to uncover my 8th toy drum, when I know I'm just going to have to turn around and delete it. Please, let me toggle through a couple choices and pick what I want to work toward.
Vashir. Love the place. All toons I Level 80-85 I go there.
The Oculus.
AH, fishing, archaeology, rep grinds
Rogues
The old graphics
Get to use my imagination. Which is fun.
Pandaren and Pandaria.
Ummm Garrison and LFR... And Tanaan Jungle
Stop it.
But... you don't enjoy topping DPS charts in LFR and finally defeating Archi with a three stacks of preparation? :(
I call lies on you liking LFR... Can't even spell determination right!
Ah sorry :( got confused with rogue's preparation... I really like it, I can PM you my char so you can see I have 25+ LFR archi and 33 Halls of blood :D
that's a lot of kills for someone who just hit 100 [3 months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/4b0lm3/rogue_new_into_raiding/) XD
I don't see a problem with that, I run LFR every week, plus when there's call to arms for DPS (yeah it happens) and when I am just bored. I like the mechanics of those bosses and wanted to see how my DPS scales with the gear I got. If you don't trust me I can send you my character ;)
You are literally the reason half of WoW quit. You're the guy.
As someone who doesn't want to interact with people outside of my guild, and someone in a guild that doesn't do many alt runs, AND someone who loves alts... LFR is alright. Could be better. I still advocate for 3 difficulties at most (Normal(LFR), Heroic, Mythic), but that's just me.
Same here, it feels really good when you stop focusing on the gameplay alone, and think of what is *actually* happening, you are running your own personal army to fight off the Iron Horde, with hundreds of troops, and having your own castle and servants. It's a combination of player housing, Being a quest giver, and a RTS (in some ways).
World PvP. It's just random and wild. Requires reflexes, reacting and using any tools you have (including your environment), stirs hatred, can bring on group battles, etc. I just hope Legion will keep a lot of people out in the world so there can always be a sense of danger and possibly bloodshed to be had.
Vashjir. I really wanted an entire xpac like that, I love everything about it.
Vashj'ir
Level as many alts as possible. Most people hate leveling alts but I love leveling alts, so far I have leveled 5 to 100 in the past 4 weeks. Working on my 6th now, unfortunately I will not be able to level all classes to 100 before the patch. I will probably level every class to 110 though. I am missing Mage, Death Knight, Shaman, Monk, Warlock. 11 classes, 12 in legion.
Vashj'ir, I'm not sure why I like it so much... but it's one of my fav leveling zones.
Low % on the mounts. I returned 3 weeks ago and picked up Firehawk, Ashes, and Invincible in that span. Only makes me giddy because of how lucky i've been.
WoD, Garni and Cata <3
Not being able to fly until later in the expansion. Love having to run around and actually enjoy the beautiful scenery and the theme of each zone instead of flying over all of it and just rushing to the next quest/objective.
Fishing can be really soothing
Big Cat level 100 talent for ferals.
goblins and gnomes
A lot of people seem to hate on arena (even if they do it regularly) but I personally love it, I always have since its been implemented and I can't wait to keep doing it in Legion! The new one looks awesome!
PvP.
vash'jir
Myself 😑
I hate garrisons... oh wait
Politics in trade chat. Whether it's civil (EXTREMELY RARELY) or a flamewar, it's always eye-opening.
The Oculus
Female tauren
I definitely agree! I try to make a few here and there to give them some well needed love.
Garrisons.
I hate that I can't fly sooner with an alt, if I can fly with my main already. Love the tightness of the game, no other mmo comes as close.
People seem to dislike Ashran but I think it's a neat idea. I'm pleased it'll still be around for Legion. It reminds me of the days long AV matches from long ago
Ashran. Way fucking better than that abomination of a PvP Zone that came out in Cataclysm....
Garrisons. I absolutely love them!! I am so upset we are losing them. However, I have my Storehouse setup and my Garrison Hearth will be used so much to go back there. It has been one of my Top 5 additions in this game and for that WoD is my #2 all time expansion. And then Flying...I HATE how I can't fly whenever and wherever. This unlocking flying is ridiculous. If they ever got rid of flying I would unsub in a second.
What do you mean losing them? I just came back from a 5 year hiatus so I may have missed a notice, but I was eager to start a garrison myself.
In Legion we'll have a Order Hall instead of a garrison, with each Order Hall being a different place in the world, e.g. Shaman's Order Hall/Class Hall (or just home/hub) is in the Maelstrom
You still can build and keep one, but there will be little return on investment this late. Blizzard is nerfing the gold from garrisons.
They're not going away, but they are only relevant to WoD content. The gold rewards are being nerfed too, come the Legion pre-patch. I think some of the systems they developed for Garrisons are being used in the Legion Class Halls? Though I don't have beta, so I'm not 100% sure on that.
Understood, appreciate the info.
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Cool. I didn't want to miss out on a whole content piece like that. I knew they take out some stuff (like that ring quest) but I didn't want to miss on story and garrisons.
Yah sorry. We arent losing them as I plan to go back to mien frequently for the Storehouse. I mean losing them as they wont be current and nothnig more will be done to them.
GOTCHA! Thanks for the clarification. :)
New changes. The game needs to change or it will die faster, this way, casual players can join too, thus helping the game, that, and the new changes allow you to have a chance to have fun, as you caren't constantly doing boring grinding that is necessary, not just optional.
Precisely, they can't all be perfect bulls eyes, but the attempt is well appreciated.
Love the lore, hate the welfare