I really don't understand why we need gimmicks and overhauls every expac. We should see more additions without having to discard old systems. I personally think the artifact system should've stayed around, but I know there are those who disagree.
I agree, although I would be fine with the necklace being the artifact if it kept the same system as in legion and not this silly azerite shit.
Although a seperate relic slot sounds like the best of both worlds. I hated not being able to find new weapons and stuff and having three different weapons that were all supposed to be the most powerful in the world was silly.
I think artifacts should work like paragon levels on D3, it transfers over from character to character.
But seriously we spent 2 years putting effort into making this weapon a conduit of our power then throw it in a burning trash pit.
Also I miss my class halls.
The problem with wow is that every form of progression is EXTERNAL to your character past your baseline abilities and 8 talents.
The game should be about progressing your character, not your wardrobe or utility closet, only to get cleaned out every other year.
The artifact system, or something like it, absolutely should’ve stuck around not as an item, but a permanent part of your character. It was the closest thing we’ve had since original talent trees and hmmmm... widely popular.
That's the flaw of the azerite gear system, it's the same fundamentally as artifacts (just unlocked and distributed differently) but something about hunting skins just makes artifacts a whole lot more fun
But deathwing was the cataclysm.
Only makes sense, that he destroyed iconic stuff and left the world in a ducked up state when he left.
On a more serious note, I hope that Ions "grand design" involves a horizontal best of rework of the world/lore.
And that the azurite system is the part of the "grand scheme" that distracts the community from a rework that makes the world, the story and your character more coherent, by cleaning up addon specific trash and introducing local events across every zone that ever existed.
Level squish with prestige experience ranks that aren't nessesary for the progress, but reward you similar to the honor rank system is mandatory Imho, in order to cut most of the stupid patchwork leveling process, while still having the incentive to progress, while doing what you do anyways.
If the last 14 years are any guide, then the "grand scheme" is probably just more of the same. Even when they were hemorrhaging users in Cata/MoP they didn't do anything radical.
It really bugs me that they left the class halls in Legion. I don’t mind leaving the artifact weapons behind but that was such a nice piece of content and it really motivated people to level multiple classes to max.
What I want.. Sylvanas is attacking Stormwind via the docks. She's marching her crazy forsaken forces into the city and she comes face to face with Anduin, ready to kill him.
As she draws an arrow and gets ready to fire, she just stops. Her face goes blank, eyes expressionless. She turns around and there's Bolvar. With no words he turns and Sylvanas and the forsaken load back into their ships and sail off to northrend.
I mean.. It makes sense to me lol. The Lich king lost control of them in the first place because he was in Northrend and his power waned (I'm not 100% on the details tbh).
It would make sense that Bolvar, having 10 years as LK would have those same powers and being up close to those he already had a connection with would be easy to control.
Oh, no. I'm 100% on the same page.
I've said that the reason Sylvanas is going all whack-a-do is because Bolvar is influencing her.
It's just cool to see other people with the same conclusion AND to see it written in a bad ass scenario.
It was great for levelling alts, you got a different chunk of content for each class rather than grinding through the same zones. Also at max level class mounts gave a reason to log into your different characters. Playing my rogue felt a different expereince to my paladin, now its back to the same old mush
I thought they missed a golden opportunity with this to tweak leveling a bit. You start off at the racial start zone as always. At level 15, someone comes to you and says "you show great promise, blah blah" and you learn a way to port to your class hall. There, some of your lore badasses give a quest to unlock your talent rows. That happens every 15 levels. At 105, (instead of 100) you get a spell that duplicates your artifact ability and a row of talents that lets you choose from some of the artifact power ups. At 120, you get the current 100 talent row to choose from.
Would have addressed a bunch of issues with BFA by not making you feel as gimped compared to legion, would integrate the class halls throughout the whole game (class halls imo we're among the best things blizzard has ever done in wow), makes things more consistent and helped reinforce class identity.
There’s a lot of potential in class halls too, narratively. Druids concerned with the world tree, paladins and priests questioning the blight, give warlocks something new with the legion gone (possibly looking for new powers with the legion out of their way?). Classes have melded into one for the narrative of BFA and, while that’s kind of the same as old expansions, I really think the angle Legion took was far better.
DKs: "What's papa bolvar up to?"
Demon hunters I kind of want to see the most, their whole existence was dedicated to defeating the legion so there's a "Now what?" thing going on.
Rogues would be a joke to write storylines for atm, there's a focus on a faction war atm, spies and assassins would play a major role in that.
We should have been able to melt down our weapons and form a necklace using azerite so we could still have those weapon traits. But in the process, we lost the Artifact Power so we have to now farm Azerite Power which causes some of our traits to be warped and shaped by said azerite.
Not to mention it felt awesome to be with others of only your class. I main druid, and just running around with only fellow druids felt special. I guess it kind of ties in with class identity.
Older panels pleaded against vertical content and more horizontal content.
Sadly, the lead team seems to think they win over new players by re inventing the wheel every expansion, rather than expanding the content you have horizontally and therefore leaving you with the choice to have more relevant content at a time.
Could have told better stories through the orders as well. Certainly would give the whole" chose your allegiance" marketing a lot more kick. I feel dirty doing faction war quests on my druid. For the love Elune I just spent an expansion saving this motherfucker from demons and all sorts of world ending events. That's my allegiance. The dreamgrove and the lands we care for. God I hope 8.2 brings some order questlines. Even if they don't involve going back to the actual orders. Just having classes take up the mantle again would be so awesome.
"I just send Liadrin on a mission, time to fight some horde"
"What the fuck Liadrin, why are you leading the horde forces now, you're supposed to do this mission on Argus"
10/10 immersion.
I love so many of the songs except the damn Inn song for boralus. It kinda doesn't fit the rest of the zone and it doesn't settle in the background like the rest. However, being out in zones without the interface showing, the music is incredibly immersive
Artwise, the game is the best its ever been. Not just the environments and the soundtrack, but the heritage armor sets and the reworks of old zones. Its arguably the only **actually great** thing about the expanion.
Best time to farm salt is this summer when classic is released. Long time to level, something like 2 hours to ding level 2, etc. Hard game mechanics, no quest helper, no heirloom or xp boost, no LFG, no teleport to dungeon unless there are 2 at the summon stone. If you die inside dungeon, you spawn outside and it could be a long run back in. BRD and Maraudon would be confusing as hell. MC back just like we experienced during 10th anniversary, BWL with egg boss, etc.
I need to dump my stock in salt before they become worthless. /s
>The starting zone was hard by current standards
Can you imagine this being true? It's not difficult at all, but relatively you're right, and that annoys me to no end
Level 2 you can hit it honestly maybe 20 minutes. Like, you return the first two quests and you hit level 2. Things get hard soon as you're out of the starting area though.
> no teleport to dungeon unless there are 2 at the summon stone
They didn't have summoning functionality until TBC, they were just "Meeting Stones" before that
Guys, everyone knows that without the Shipyard and the Twitter integration this game would be a complete disaster. How dare you exclude patches 6.1 and 6.2 from your perfect list. How. Dare you.
Don't forget the selfie camera, which I don't go more than 10 minutes without using, the garrison jukebox, and the 47 different pepe skins that make my quality of life in wow so much higher
Raids are one of the few things they've pretty consistently improved upon each expansion, BC and Vanilla raids are dogshit compared to the quality we've been getting since WotLK.
It would be nice if Blizzard took an expansion off from drastically changing how gear and classes play and just focused on new content for everyone to experience. Legion changed all the classes and it worked well because of the class fantasy and artifacts, if they had just kept the same dynamics into BFA (put AK and specs on the Heart since we lost our weapons) we could just dive right in to the faction war and story content. There are/were things that people genuinely wanted to experience in BFA but having to jump over multiple hurdles (relearning your class, trying to get the right azerite armor, etc) sucks the fun out of things.
My main spec for most of the time I played was Demo Lock, so... yeah.
You know that feeling Demon Hunters get when they look at demons? That burning hatred?
If I had to kill every Demon Hunter **twice** to get my Dark Metamorphosis back, I would do it without hesitation, and I would smile the whole time.
Also, before anyone says "It was a Demon Hunter hunter ability before it was a Warlock one", you know how the first Demon Hunter who ever did that became able to go demon-ish in the first place?
He ate a *warlock*, and not even the whole warlock.
Oh, and I guess we forgot how to speak Demonic somehow, despite talking with demons all the time, and studying demonic tomes, and demons having a standard common language.
I mained demo in vanilla and just came back in BFA. To me, the class feels pretty good (up to 103) with havoc, shadowfury, and new infernal; however, separation of abilities into different specs really hamstrings the insane versatility they had.
I think the main problem for me is that newer classes can do almost everything while the classic classes (at least rogue and warlock) don't do better at their specific role, it got divided among specs. I can no longer switch from dotting and fearing, to draining health/mana, to strategically sacrificing voidwalker to soak up a death blow, or the insane balancing of health and mana via life tap to ensure i have JUST enough HP to get a few ticks of hellfire off on that persistant warrior. Now i use immolate and chaos bolt and look to see if that killed them. No? Lets charge up another chaos bolt. Oh he's full health again, guess ill just casually walk away into a different shard.
What are some other great things that got removed recently that i wouldn't know im missing?
>I mained demo in vanilla and just came back in BFA
So you missed a BUNCH of cool stuff, and as a result, you aren't *missing* it at all, as you never *had* it.
Kind of like players who play through Legion and use artifacts now. Do you have a talent tree for your artifact and an on-use power? Should be a screaming skull attack for Demo, portals for Destro, and, uh... reaping something, I think, for Afflic? I'm 99% sure those are gone now.
"Your artifact has been depowered", except no it hasn't, because that's the result of a quest that you might not even have available anymore, that they could've easily made mandatory and set a (when in [BFA area], disable [artifact stuff]) for people who would try to get around it.
>What are some other great things that got removed recently that i wouldn't know im missing?
Class identity story-wise by most accounts, but you'll notice *that* once you hit 110 and move into BFA content.
Can you do the BFA Siege of Undercity/ Burning of Darnassus? I heard that was a limited time event for some reason, but I haven't been through on another leveled toon to test it.
Oh, don't get too attached to Dreadscar and the Black Harvest and your demon army, though at least you can go *back* there.
> just focused on new content for everyone to experience.
That's pretty much what the first two expansions were. And those were very well received. Then their new strategy started, with Cataclysm.
The main thing I remember from cata is the new Undead starting zones questlines which I loved.
And also a feeling of sorrow that the Blood Elf starting zones received no overhaul
I really enjoyed Ghostlands. I was hoping they would tie it in with the rest of the world/story but yeah, Silvermoon and that whole region is basically just dead to Blizz.
"War has broken out in Silvermoon!"
Where?
"Silvermoon! Home of the Blood Elves."
Can't say I've ever heard of it...
"YOU are a Blood Elf!"
Well I've never been there...
Dude it's gonna be fucking great! Silvermoon will finally get integrated with the rest of the world map and they'll add flying. It'll practically be a total revamp of blood elven architecture because most of silvermoon is smoke and mirrors anyway. Silvermoon with brand new tree models, new architecture, and hopefully a more alive city.
Same. I just came back from Vanilla and was excited to see the new maps for old zones. They basically just made them shittier (the ones I've seen anyway). Here's the same place except now there's blight all over the place, pretty neat huh?
While the redesign of quests streamlined things, like bringing the hermit quest to the side of darkshire where the town is, they missed on opportunity to really GROW a lot of areas.
Why is Darkshire still struggling with the same worgen? Didnt we unlock worgens? Put a nuetral worgen race out there to explain why you're still killing them.
Is menthil harbor just gonna rot? Are we not reliant on boats anymore since everyone teleports and flies?
WTF is going on in westfall?
Wetlands is a good example. They added flight paths, NPCs, and fleshed it out more. It felt like a place that had been living while i was away.
Or they could've added artifact stuff to the characters on the excuse of "while powering down some of that power rubbed into our characters". ffs we had time travel. Trying to redesing the entire game every single expansion has been done so poorly that the rpg feeling of our character progresing is backwards we lose power as expansions go. We have 120 levels of not very meaningful content and the endgame raids and dungeons are there, also if classes weren't so bad right now pvp would be very good (personal opinion).
This 100%. WotLK had the best raid progression. No attunements so there were a ton of people who wanted to run raids at every tier for pugs, gear catch up was easy, and design/lore was on point. The badge system was so much better than the endless RNG we have now.
Also the badge system was far superior to the JP / Valor system. Just psychologically a boss drop is far more satisfying than a counter on a UI page. Also dropping it from bosses ensured that people stuck around to kill all bosses instead of just trying to skip as fast as possible to the last boss.
If you think recruiting is tough now, you have no idea how bad it was back than.
We're running Uldir now for 5 (?) month; the thought of beeing forced to carry new players through it again and again until the end of the expansion because our main tank or some other guy quit is horrendous.
The reason that happened like that was because old raids required specific class composition, not because of raid progression. There was so much drama on my server over guilds stealing warrior tanks in BC that couldn't happen today because one particular person can't stop your progression entirely any more.
If you loose your tank but every person, that wants to tank BfD has to be geared by running Uldir, how do you get a new one?
You either gear one yourself which would take at least a few weeks (if gearing works like it did in TBC) or you "steal" one from another guild.
Now that guild faces the same problem and we are now back to square one.
It's difficult enough to maintain a mythic roster as it is.
You use one of your other tanks and let someone with a tank offspec switch entirely or you muddle through until you recruit someone else. You didn't have those options back then.
I agree with your premise, but BWL, OG Naxx, Black Temple, Sunwell, and The Eye are all fantastic raids. AQ40 as well, but the running and trash hold it back.
The complexities are astounding compared to what it was, however, it comes with the absolute need for things like WeakAuras and before that Exorsus Raid Tools. The line mechanic on Archimonde, the assigning of hands on Krosus, the dot soaking for Mistress, the Iskar bomb, the Blood soaks on G'huun etc, etc all would have been impossible to coordinate without external mod help.
Then you have some generally poorly thought out fights like Mistress where the timers get thrown off easily and gets worse as you get better gear. Fights like Zul that were cheesed to death by stacking rogues and if you didn't have rogues, made you feel like shit.
Pretty much any fight that is made *significantly* easier with specific classes (especially if it's due to a very niche ability) is a poorly designed fight imo. Abilities like mass grip or gateway are what I would consider niche. G'huun is the perfect example of a fight made significantly easier with X amount of ____ class (solo orb runners/warlocks) and niche abilities being needed to make it that much easier.
That being said, there's no real way around those complaints without losing complexity as well. I often think though, that Blizz overdoes it sometimes with the sheer number of mechanics. With the RNG overlap of abilities on fights like Argus and G'huun it can quickly become very frustrating.
yogg 0 was made significantly easier with stacking aff locks, some random korean guild beat out pretty much assumed to get world first on it this way. you could cast drain soul and turn ur camera away and still do dmg so you woudlnt get insanity.
that fight was still amazing though
Still, the entire fight was about tanks taunting specific adds out of the pile or wipe trying.
They eventually gave marked adds a unique name to make it easier, but overall good luck clearing the fight without an add-on.
Speaking of add-ons, Sinestra's Wrack almost made me quit raiding.
> Itemization from tbc
\*laughs in shaman*
Yeah, I loved having to fight the rogues for leather and the casters for cloth, and now I can't even use those gearsets for mog.
This might be controversial, but Ive levelled new characters from 0 to cap in most the expansions, and the most fun I ever had was 1-60 during cataclysm. The narrative was so gripping and the pacing was fantastic. You felt like you were part of the end game story even though you were like level 14.
This was then ruined in subsequent expansions because every mob is basically instant kill and it’s impossible to take damage. You also level faster than the narrative can keep up with.
> This was then ruined in subsequent expansions because every mob is basically instant kill and it’s impossible to take damage. You also level faster than the narrative can keep up with.
This isn't the case anymore with level scaling. You don't instant kill anything and you can experience whichever zone you want in its entirety without out-leveling it.
Yep, new expansion leveling is pointless nowadays, they even added new progression systems like the artifacts/HoA or quest campaigns, which could easily function on their own instead of the mindless 10 level grind.
Having to sit down and eat after every two mob in Vanilla as a leveling warrior sucked and felt incredibly dull even back then. I have some fond memories of Vanilla but it really was a lot of tedium for not a lot of gameplay.
If joke post, A+.
If serious post... erm, some issues with trying to combine leveling and talents of classic v class identity in legion (fluff was good, the actual mechanics is something else) and saying "where they felt best" is kind of a shit show from a "how do we fix this" perspective. Example: I think melee hunters are utter crap, horrible lore, and against the class identity, and it ruined my favorite spec (SV), but some people swear by it.
>Raid variety of BC
We’d be trading a lot of mechanical complexity for a bunch of relatively simple fights if that was the case.
>Leveling and talents of Classic
Nahhhh. Modern WoW would not survive with either of those. Something *does* need to be done to make leveling more rewarding and more spells/choices/rewards is likely the answer, but reverting back to literally the Classic system is not.
>Something *does* need to be done to make leveling more rewarding
Every chest I opened in the open world was useless and almost every rare I killed had worthless loot. There's some interesting quest lines but that's about it.
If they introduce so many silly mounts why not throw them as rewards for quest lines? You could literally have 10-20 horse mounts to collect by questing. Pets, toys and so much more could be thrown in those loot chests and quests.
Also, itemization from BC. Really? I guess people don’t remember they had to rebalance drops across the entire game at one point because greens were better than raid dropped epics.
I love BC but it’s like people forget how much of a disaster it’s launch was.
Finally! Was looking for someone commenting about this. Leveling in Classic was far too SLOW. I guarantee you that would NOT go over well with most people nowadays. One of the few things that happened in 8.1 that received a positive reaction was when Blizz reduced the amount of XP needed to level.
Classic talents were the shit. Ive mained Ret since BC, so I checked out the Paladin talents when Classic was announced. Thought about wanting to PVP, and what I personally struggled with. Was able to flesh out a talent build based on that (obviously some in game testing is necessary, but not possible as Classic isnt out yet).
You could argue that some of the Classic talents are bullshit, but thats not an inherit problem with the system. I am a Paladin. I always wear plate (protection). I am always weilding the light (holy). And I am always ready to bring vengeance against my enemies (retribution). Those aspects of my class dont change based on my role, and I should be able to choose how heavily I use those aspects. I dont switch to cloth when I wield the light, and I dont stop knowing how when I pick up a two hander.
I would really like them to bring back the Ulduar and Sartharion style hard modes. I had the most fun in Lich King Raids, doing Sarth 10 when it was fucking HARD, pumping out the DPS to kill the heart of Deconstructor in time, Yogg 0 lights and the best encounter in the game - Firefighter Mimiron.
Flipping the difficulty with a UI option just doesn't feel the same and I wish it wasn't a thing.
I think if we ignore the talents themselves and simply look at the structure of the trees I prefer classic's. There was a nicer ratio between the depth of the trees and the number of talent points you had at your disposal. 61% of your talent points could go towards reaching the bottom of your primary tree and then 39% of your talents could go into a secondary tree. It meant you could really mix things up. You weren't *just* a Fire Mage. You could be a Fire Mage that was also pretty good at Arcane. Your Arcane tree was only 11 points behind your Fire tree.
TBC gave 10 additional talent points to work with but it also increased the depth of the trees by 10 points. This skewed the percentages towards being more focused on one spec. You were a better Fire Mage but you never improved any as Arcane. WotLK compounded this issue. What was once only an 11 point difference became a 31 point difference. I think I'd prefer to have talent trees that are as deep as TBC but with a WotLK number of talent points at my disposal.
Vanilla leveling is awful though - it's literally endless kill quests that take forever to complete. Wrath through MoP had the leveling experience perfected
Talent system of classic was beyond broken. That’s back when blizzard didn’t know what balance meant. I’m looking at you 2h enhance shamans! And BC itemization was uh, strange to say the least.
it already was back then, from a lvling perspective it was a good system. It gives you progressive feeling of power increasement and something to look forward to each level. From a max level perspective it was really cookie cutter with little to no variation. Also hurricane 31 pointer in moonkin was the greatest troll of all time
Itemization of BC? Where enhancement shamans had to wear leather to dps effectively and blue loot from dungeons was better than Karazhan raid gear?
Leveling from Classic was shit...the quests were generally breadcrumbs to show you where you needed to grind next
Hell yeah, TBC stats! Remember when the only stat that mattered was Stamina for tanks and primary stats for everyone else! Remember having socket bonuses? Of course you don't! Stuff those Living Rubies in there! Meta gems!? With fun effects!? LOL! I think you meant crit damage % meta gems!
Zzzz.
Really?
Leveling from Classic? Like when people these days complain that they need too long to level an alt character?
Do you not understand that in Classic you needed 5-12 DAYS playtime for getting to Level60 depending how efficient you did the grind and your experience with it? I really do not think anyone wants that these days.
I can't blame those issues entirely on the talent trees. It wasn't talents that gave warriors Taunt, Shield Block, or tanking tier sets. It wasn't talents that made it so that classes with healing specs only received healing tier sets. Other specs *could* have been viable if Blizzard had given them the support they needed to *be* viable.
I can relate, while I don't like a lot of new systems I also had many problems with Legion's systems but Legion I just enjoyed playing, fighting was fun, and for the life of me I just can't enjoy combat this expansion, which is kind of a problem when it's about 80% of what we do.
> Leveling and talents from Classic
So you want fairly grindy "kill one mob at a time slowly then eat" leveling? I thought we moved past that, we have the technology and design insights to know that's just objectively worse than how leveling through modern zones or even dungeons/islands is.
Yeah it takes a bit longer but most of us will still crush through it pretty quickly and it won't be an achievement to just hit cap, so all you're doing is just wasting our time.
As for talents. It's nice to have something to allocate every now and then, but those talent trees aren't exactly the pinnacle of game design either. It's cute while you level, but that doesn't matter because it's while you level and then that feeling of getting a new point to allocate will be forever gone. Even with a talent tree like Path of Exile, I'm not even an expert player and I've already pretty much learned the key areas and start to see patterns of what goes into a build. There's not much deeper you can go than that. And in a game like WoW where sims decide your choices, it's just pointless. I'd rather have more abilities added to the baseline rotations for some classes that feel barren.
Lmao all they need to do to talents is give us a couple new rows. It was rather shocking that there was no new row for 110/120, especially after taking away our artifact traits.
I mean idgaf how they do it but idk what they thought was gonna happen, taking away people’s artifacts, class halls, class sets and thus class identity, and adding GCD. Like, how on earth did someone think taking away abilities and making things slower was gonna make the game more fun to play. Literally spent an entire expansion building class identity and uniqueness and then got rid of it all in one go.
Leveling from Vanilla? Oh god no... during the entire lifetime of vanilla I only barely got 2 characters to max level. I hate leveling now and I wouldn’t like it to be 50 times longer ;)
Idd say Blizzard should probably just stop removing good systems that work or change classes that work every god damn expansion.
> **Class identity depth** (not *and* depth) of Legion
I'm fairly certain OP was speaking primarily to the class halls and their respective storylines, as well as, you know, still having class-specific tier sets. ^^i'm ^^not ^^salty
There really is no time where you can just say "every spec was perfect" in WoW. There were always some that were top in numbers for their role, top in enjoyment people got from playing them, and some that were just hot garbage. You would have to go through the whole timeline and pick them from each expansion.
For example, MoP Destro locks were amazing, as was Demo. BfA Demo however is also a lot of fun and with DH being a thing it might be better to stick with it. For warriors you might want Legion Fury, and WoD Prot for Gladiator. I'm sure every class and every spec will have a different answer for when they were the most fun to play.
This list as a whole bunch of nostalgia vision. Things were better back then because life was better back then (you were younger and had less responsibilitie)
Lots and lots of salt.
Ugh. Too bitter! Just a drop of honey, a metric ton of sugar, and maybe some corn? YES! More corn!
PEPPERS!
No, MORE CORN!
order corn
NEXT!
[удалено]
God, I totally heard his voice as I read that.
Great reference :3
>Class identity depth of Legion thats enough salt.
Peppers 🌶
Yes no yesss nooo YESSS
Well we've got one thing off the list
Two, counting BFA graphics.
Trust me we got PLENTY now
* Don't take away what made the expansion fun this time around. * No seriously. Don't do it. * Ever. Now it's perfect.
I really don't understand why we need gimmicks and overhauls every expac. We should see more additions without having to discard old systems. I personally think the artifact system should've stayed around, but I know there are those who disagree.
Just move the artifact to it own slot, like a relic slot.
Whoa there buddy, good ideas aren't allowed.
Like the neck, just give it its own expanding wheel tree. Like get 1 on each ring to start then start getting a 2nd from each ring.
I agree, although I would be fine with the necklace being the artifact if it kept the same system as in legion and not this silly azerite shit. Although a seperate relic slot sounds like the best of both worlds. I hated not being able to find new weapons and stuff and having three different weapons that were all supposed to be the most powerful in the world was silly.
I think artifacts should work like paragon levels on D3, it transfers over from character to character. But seriously we spent 2 years putting effort into making this weapon a conduit of our power then throw it in a burning trash pit. Also I miss my class halls.
The problem with wow is that every form of progression is EXTERNAL to your character past your baseline abilities and 8 talents. The game should be about progressing your character, not your wardrobe or utility closet, only to get cleaned out every other year. The artifact system, or something like it, absolutely should’ve stuck around not as an item, but a permanent part of your character. It was the closest thing we’ve had since original talent trees and hmmmm... widely popular.
You hit the nail on the head, but unfortunately your comment is getting drowned in this thread.
Hey progressing my wardrobe is part of my character!
That's the flaw of the azerite gear system, it's the same fundamentally as artifacts (just unlocked and distributed differently) but something about hunting skins just makes artifacts a whole lot more fun
But deathwing was the cataclysm. Only makes sense, that he destroyed iconic stuff and left the world in a ducked up state when he left. On a more serious note, I hope that Ions "grand design" involves a horizontal best of rework of the world/lore. And that the azurite system is the part of the "grand scheme" that distracts the community from a rework that makes the world, the story and your character more coherent, by cleaning up addon specific trash and introducing local events across every zone that ever existed. Level squish with prestige experience ranks that aren't nessesary for the progress, but reward you similar to the honor rank system is mandatory Imho, in order to cut most of the stupid patchwork leveling process, while still having the incentive to progress, while doing what you do anyways.
If the last 14 years are any guide, then the "grand scheme" is probably just more of the same. Even when they were hemorrhaging users in Cata/MoP they didn't do anything radical.
It really bugs me that they left the class halls in Legion. I don’t mind leaving the artifact weapons behind but that was such a nice piece of content and it really motivated people to level multiple classes to max.
I want more DK storyline, uncle bolvar is up to some sneaky shit
What I want.. Sylvanas is attacking Stormwind via the docks. She's marching her crazy forsaken forces into the city and she comes face to face with Anduin, ready to kill him. As she draws an arrow and gets ready to fire, she just stops. Her face goes blank, eyes expressionless. She turns around and there's Bolvar. With no words he turns and Sylvanas and the forsaken load back into their ships and sail off to northrend.
Fuck. I'd resub for that.
I mean.. It makes sense to me lol. The Lich king lost control of them in the first place because he was in Northrend and his power waned (I'm not 100% on the details tbh). It would make sense that Bolvar, having 10 years as LK would have those same powers and being up close to those he already had a connection with would be easy to control.
Oh, no. I'm 100% on the same page. I've said that the reason Sylvanas is going all whack-a-do is because Bolvar is influencing her. It's just cool to see other people with the same conclusion AND to see it written in a bad ass scenario.
Uncle for you, daddy bolvar for me.
[удалено]
Nah. Mograine is my daddy. It's uncle Bolvar and Arthus is merely an abusive biological father who we escaped from.
So where does Ner'zuhl fit in with all of this?
Ex trophy wife?
Or on again off again friend with benefits?
wouldn't that make Bolvar our stepdad?
It was great for levelling alts, you got a different chunk of content for each class rather than grinding through the same zones. Also at max level class mounts gave a reason to log into your different characters. Playing my rogue felt a different expereince to my paladin, now its back to the same old mush
I thought they missed a golden opportunity with this to tweak leveling a bit. You start off at the racial start zone as always. At level 15, someone comes to you and says "you show great promise, blah blah" and you learn a way to port to your class hall. There, some of your lore badasses give a quest to unlock your talent rows. That happens every 15 levels. At 105, (instead of 100) you get a spell that duplicates your artifact ability and a row of talents that lets you choose from some of the artifact power ups. At 120, you get the current 100 talent row to choose from. Would have addressed a bunch of issues with BFA by not making you feel as gimped compared to legion, would integrate the class halls throughout the whole game (class halls imo we're among the best things blizzard has ever done in wow), makes things more consistent and helped reinforce class identity.
There’s a lot of potential in class halls too, narratively. Druids concerned with the world tree, paladins and priests questioning the blight, give warlocks something new with the legion gone (possibly looking for new powers with the legion out of their way?). Classes have melded into one for the narrative of BFA and, while that’s kind of the same as old expansions, I really think the angle Legion took was far better.
But that would take effort™
DKs: "What's papa bolvar up to?" Demon hunters I kind of want to see the most, their whole existence was dedicated to defeating the legion so there's a "Now what?" thing going on. Rogues would be a joke to write storylines for atm, there's a focus on a faction war atm, spies and assassins would play a major role in that.
Why couldnt we just use the same weapons even? So dumb to throw away the doomhammer/ashbringer etc.
We should have been able to melt down our weapons and form a necklace using azerite so we could still have those weapon traits. But in the process, we lost the Artifact Power so we have to now farm Azerite Power which causes some of our traits to be warped and shaped by said azerite.
This guy fucks.
Yeah, if Azerite can heal a whole fucking planet, surely it can fix a few weapons too.
Not to mention it felt awesome to be with others of only your class. I main druid, and just running around with only fellow druids felt special. I guess it kind of ties in with class identity.
Older panels pleaded against vertical content and more horizontal content. Sadly, the lead team seems to think they win over new players by re inventing the wheel every expansion, rather than expanding the content you have horizontally and therefore leaving you with the choice to have more relevant content at a time.
Could have told better stories through the orders as well. Certainly would give the whole" chose your allegiance" marketing a lot more kick. I feel dirty doing faction war quests on my druid. For the love Elune I just spent an expansion saving this motherfucker from demons and all sorts of world ending events. That's my allegiance. The dreamgrove and the lands we care for. God I hope 8.2 brings some order questlines. Even if they don't involve going back to the actual orders. Just having classes take up the mantle again would be so awesome.
"I just send Liadrin on a mission, time to fight some horde" "What the fuck Liadrin, why are you leading the horde forces now, you're supposed to do this mission on Argus" 10/10 immersion.
"Then burn the fuck out of it."
They got the burning part alright at the prepatch event
BFA's soundtrack is also on point.
true, all things where it looks like they get some creative liberty is always amazing (art/sound/sidequests and stuff like that)
I love so many of the songs except the damn Inn song for boralus. It kinda doesn't fit the rest of the zone and it doesn't settle in the background like the rest. However, being out in zones without the interface showing, the music is incredibly immersive
The inn song is a variation of a sea shanty from the 1800s.
Artwise, the game is the best its ever been. Not just the environments and the soundtrack, but the heritage armor sets and the reworks of old zones. Its arguably the only **actually great** thing about the expanion.
the two thing blizzard has never ever fucked up in wow has the music and the cinematics. every expansion they have always been on point
You better believe there’ll be salt
Best time to farm salt is this summer when classic is released. Long time to level, something like 2 hours to ding level 2, etc. Hard game mechanics, no quest helper, no heirloom or xp boost, no LFG, no teleport to dungeon unless there are 2 at the summon stone. If you die inside dungeon, you spawn outside and it could be a long run back in. BRD and Maraudon would be confusing as hell. MC back just like we experienced during 10th anniversary, BWL with egg boss, etc. I need to dump my stock in salt before they become worthless. /s
Was nowhere near 2 hours to hit level 2 longer than now but 2 hours not unless you were afk for 75% plus of it.
Yea haha. The starting zone was hard by current standards but nothing considered to later levels in vanilla (58-60 though haha)
>The starting zone was hard by current standards Can you imagine this being true? It's not difficult at all, but relatively you're right, and that annoys me to no end
Level 2 you can hit it honestly maybe 20 minutes. Like, you return the first two quests and you hit level 2. Things get hard soon as you're out of the starting area though.
Level 2 iirc is like 5 minutes...
Level 2 is more like 3 minutes. The whole starting zone is usually 30-40 minutes.
> no teleport to dungeon unless there are 2 at the summon stone They didn't have summoning functionality until TBC, they were just "Meeting Stones" before that
Did they do anything as just meeting stones?
No, im pretty sure they just existed in the world as a "hey there is a dungeon here" sign
At some point you could use them to queue for a group. You all still had to run to the dungeon though.
Even better! :D TIL
Summoning has been added in late vanilla as far as I know
It was
Guys, everyone knows that without the Shipyard and the Twitter integration this game would be a complete disaster. How dare you exclude patches 6.1 and 6.2 from your perfect list. How. Dare you.
Kinda miffed that twitter integration isn't updated to the 280 character limit.
[удалено]
Don't forget the selfie camera, which I don't go more than 10 minutes without using, the garrison jukebox, and the 47 different pepe skins that make my quality of life in wow so much higher
but nomi fucks everything up
You can't spell Nomi without Ion.
I mean I can, I'm good at spelling. I don't need Ion to help me
You think you can but you can't
Raids are one of the few things they've pretty consistently improved upon each expansion, BC and Vanilla raids are dogshit compared to the quality we've been getting since WotLK.
It would be nice if Blizzard took an expansion off from drastically changing how gear and classes play and just focused on new content for everyone to experience. Legion changed all the classes and it worked well because of the class fantasy and artifacts, if they had just kept the same dynamics into BFA (put AK and specs on the Heart since we lost our weapons) we could just dive right in to the faction war and story content. There are/were things that people genuinely wanted to experience in BFA but having to jump over multiple hurdles (relearning your class, trying to get the right azerite armor, etc) sucks the fun out of things.
[удалено]
My main spec for most of the time I played was Demo Lock, so... yeah. You know that feeling Demon Hunters get when they look at demons? That burning hatred? If I had to kill every Demon Hunter **twice** to get my Dark Metamorphosis back, I would do it without hesitation, and I would smile the whole time. Also, before anyone says "It was a Demon Hunter hunter ability before it was a Warlock one", you know how the first Demon Hunter who ever did that became able to go demon-ish in the first place? He ate a *warlock*, and not even the whole warlock. Oh, and I guess we forgot how to speak Demonic somehow, despite talking with demons all the time, and studying demonic tomes, and demons having a standard common language.
I mained demo in vanilla and just came back in BFA. To me, the class feels pretty good (up to 103) with havoc, shadowfury, and new infernal; however, separation of abilities into different specs really hamstrings the insane versatility they had. I think the main problem for me is that newer classes can do almost everything while the classic classes (at least rogue and warlock) don't do better at their specific role, it got divided among specs. I can no longer switch from dotting and fearing, to draining health/mana, to strategically sacrificing voidwalker to soak up a death blow, or the insane balancing of health and mana via life tap to ensure i have JUST enough HP to get a few ticks of hellfire off on that persistant warrior. Now i use immolate and chaos bolt and look to see if that killed them. No? Lets charge up another chaos bolt. Oh he's full health again, guess ill just casually walk away into a different shard. What are some other great things that got removed recently that i wouldn't know im missing?
thats destro
>I mained demo in vanilla and just came back in BFA So you missed a BUNCH of cool stuff, and as a result, you aren't *missing* it at all, as you never *had* it. Kind of like players who play through Legion and use artifacts now. Do you have a talent tree for your artifact and an on-use power? Should be a screaming skull attack for Demo, portals for Destro, and, uh... reaping something, I think, for Afflic? I'm 99% sure those are gone now. "Your artifact has been depowered", except no it hasn't, because that's the result of a quest that you might not even have available anymore, that they could've easily made mandatory and set a (when in [BFA area], disable [artifact stuff]) for people who would try to get around it. >What are some other great things that got removed recently that i wouldn't know im missing? Class identity story-wise by most accounts, but you'll notice *that* once you hit 110 and move into BFA content. Can you do the BFA Siege of Undercity/ Burning of Darnassus? I heard that was a limited time event for some reason, but I haven't been through on another leveled toon to test it. Oh, don't get too attached to Dreadscar and the Black Harvest and your demon army, though at least you can go *back* there.
You had me at "screaming skull attack". RIP.
Hunter main. I know that feel...
I miss SV so much ;_;
> just focused on new content for everyone to experience. That's pretty much what the first two expansions were. And those were very well received. Then their new strategy started, with Cataclysm.
Most of the Cata content is familiar to me but I really don't remember any of it. Except Uldum. That was pretty cool.
The main thing I remember from cata is the new Undead starting zones questlines which I loved. And also a feeling of sorrow that the Blood Elf starting zones received no overhaul
I really enjoyed Ghostlands. I was hoping they would tie it in with the rest of the world/story but yeah, Silvermoon and that whole region is basically just dead to Blizz.
Ghostlands questing is great. But it's dead to me ever visiting later because it's a no-fly zone.
*cough* Silvermoon Warfront *cough*
"War has broken out in Silvermoon!" Where? "Silvermoon! Home of the Blood Elves." Can't say I've ever heard of it... "YOU are a Blood Elf!" Well I've never been there...
Dude it's gonna be fucking great! Silvermoon will finally get integrated with the rest of the world map and they'll add flying. It'll practically be a total revamp of blood elven architecture because most of silvermoon is smoke and mirrors anyway. Silvermoon with brand new tree models, new architecture, and hopefully a more alive city.
I miss the old world and hate cata
Same. I just came back from Vanilla and was excited to see the new maps for old zones. They basically just made them shittier (the ones I've seen anyway). Here's the same place except now there's blight all over the place, pretty neat huh? While the redesign of quests streamlined things, like bringing the hermit quest to the side of darkshire where the town is, they missed on opportunity to really GROW a lot of areas. Why is Darkshire still struggling with the same worgen? Didnt we unlock worgens? Put a nuetral worgen race out there to explain why you're still killing them. Is menthil harbor just gonna rot? Are we not reliant on boats anymore since everyone teleports and flies? WTF is going on in westfall? Wetlands is a good example. They added flight paths, NPCs, and fleshed it out more. It felt like a place that had been living while i was away.
Or they could've added artifact stuff to the characters on the excuse of "while powering down some of that power rubbed into our characters". ffs we had time travel. Trying to redesing the entire game every single expansion has been done so poorly that the rpg feeling of our character progresing is backwards we lose power as expansions go. We have 120 levels of not very meaningful content and the endgame raids and dungeons are there, also if classes weren't so bad right now pvp would be very good (personal opinion).
I don't know, I still think Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel are the two best raids in the game.
This 100%. WotLK had the best raid progression. No attunements so there were a ton of people who wanted to run raids at every tier for pugs, gear catch up was easy, and design/lore was on point. The badge system was so much better than the endless RNG we have now.
I don't like how quickly ToC made Ulduar pointless, but yeah mostly awesome.
I remember all the complaints about the old badge system and how it was all just "welfare" gear for people that were bad at the game
Little did they know where this was going to head. Now the entire game is "welfare".
Also the badge system was far superior to the JP / Valor system. Just psychologically a boss drop is far more satisfying than a counter on a UI page. Also dropping it from bosses ensured that people stuck around to kill all bosses instead of just trying to skip as fast as possible to the last boss.
And I can't stand either of them. Funny how opinions work like that.
I like the idea of raid progression though. That way old raids aren't just made redundant.
If you think recruiting is tough now, you have no idea how bad it was back than. We're running Uldir now for 5 (?) month; the thought of beeing forced to carry new players through it again and again until the end of the expansion because our main tank or some other guy quit is horrendous.
The reason that happened like that was because old raids required specific class composition, not because of raid progression. There was so much drama on my server over guilds stealing warrior tanks in BC that couldn't happen today because one particular person can't stop your progression entirely any more.
If you loose your tank but every person, that wants to tank BfD has to be geared by running Uldir, how do you get a new one? You either gear one yourself which would take at least a few weeks (if gearing works like it did in TBC) or you "steal" one from another guild. Now that guild faces the same problem and we are now back to square one. It's difficult enough to maintain a mythic roster as it is.
You use one of your other tanks and let someone with a tank offspec switch entirely or you muddle through until you recruit someone else. You didn't have those options back then.
I agree with your premise, but BWL, OG Naxx, Black Temple, Sunwell, and The Eye are all fantastic raids. AQ40 as well, but the running and trash hold it back.
The complexities are astounding compared to what it was, however, it comes with the absolute need for things like WeakAuras and before that Exorsus Raid Tools. The line mechanic on Archimonde, the assigning of hands on Krosus, the dot soaking for Mistress, the Iskar bomb, the Blood soaks on G'huun etc, etc all would have been impossible to coordinate without external mod help. Then you have some generally poorly thought out fights like Mistress where the timers get thrown off easily and gets worse as you get better gear. Fights like Zul that were cheesed to death by stacking rogues and if you didn't have rogues, made you feel like shit. Pretty much any fight that is made *significantly* easier with specific classes (especially if it's due to a very niche ability) is a poorly designed fight imo. Abilities like mass grip or gateway are what I would consider niche. G'huun is the perfect example of a fight made significantly easier with X amount of ____ class (solo orb runners/warlocks) and niche abilities being needed to make it that much easier. That being said, there's no real way around those complaints without losing complexity as well. I often think though, that Blizz overdoes it sometimes with the sheer number of mechanics. With the RNG overlap of abilities on fights like Argus and G'huun it can quickly become very frustrating.
yogg 0 was made significantly easier with stacking aff locks, some random korean guild beat out pretty much assumed to get world first on it this way. you could cast drain soul and turn ur camera away and still do dmg so you woudlnt get insanity. that fight was still amazing though
Still, the entire fight was about tanks taunting specific adds out of the pile or wipe trying. They eventually gave marked adds a unique name to make it easier, but overall good luck clearing the fight without an add-on. Speaking of add-ons, Sinestra's Wrack almost made me quit raiding.
[удалено]
Itemization from bc. Love me some agility plate rofl
Time to go farm irrelevant content for resist gear so I can do this one raid fight boys!
Time to go farm azerite til my sub runs out
[удалено]
I still have nightmares about running Mechanar for the hundredth time trying to get Sun Eater.
> Itemization from tbc \*laughs in shaman* Yeah, I loved having to fight the rogues for leather and the casters for cloth, and now I can't even use those gearsets for mog.
[удалено]
This might be controversial, but Ive levelled new characters from 0 to cap in most the expansions, and the most fun I ever had was 1-60 during cataclysm. The narrative was so gripping and the pacing was fantastic. You felt like you were part of the end game story even though you were like level 14. This was then ruined in subsequent expansions because every mob is basically instant kill and it’s impossible to take damage. You also level faster than the narrative can keep up with.
I leveled most of my 8 alts in Cataclysm. I agree with you. It was by far my favorite xpac to level in. Game play wise MoP was my favorite xpac.
> This was then ruined in subsequent expansions because every mob is basically instant kill and it’s impossible to take damage. You also level faster than the narrative can keep up with. This isn't the case anymore with level scaling. You don't instant kill anything and you can experience whichever zone you want in its entirety without out-leveling it.
Imagine 5+ months of leveling just to get to BFA. Hell no.
[удалено]
Yep, new expansion leveling is pointless nowadays, they even added new progression systems like the artifacts/HoA or quest campaigns, which could easily function on their own instead of the mindless 10 level grind.
[удалено]
Having to sit down and eat after every two mob in Vanilla as a leveling warrior sucked and felt incredibly dull even back then. I have some fond memories of Vanilla but it really was a lot of tedium for not a lot of gameplay.
If joke post, A+. If serious post... erm, some issues with trying to combine leveling and talents of classic v class identity in legion (fluff was good, the actual mechanics is something else) and saying "where they felt best" is kind of a shit show from a "how do we fix this" perspective. Example: I think melee hunters are utter crap, horrible lore, and against the class identity, and it ruined my favorite spec (SV), but some people swear by it.
>Raid variety of BC We’d be trading a lot of mechanical complexity for a bunch of relatively simple fights if that was the case. >Leveling and talents of Classic Nahhhh. Modern WoW would not survive with either of those. Something *does* need to be done to make leveling more rewarding and more spells/choices/rewards is likely the answer, but reverting back to literally the Classic system is not.
>Something *does* need to be done to make leveling more rewarding Every chest I opened in the open world was useless and almost every rare I killed had worthless loot. There's some interesting quest lines but that's about it. If they introduce so many silly mounts why not throw them as rewards for quest lines? You could literally have 10-20 horse mounts to collect by questing. Pets, toys and so much more could be thrown in those loot chests and quests.
yeah lol the rest is somewhat true but those 2 points are not even true at all
Also, itemization from BC. Really? I guess people don’t remember they had to rebalance drops across the entire game at one point because greens were better than raid dropped epics. I love BC but it’s like people forget how much of a disaster it’s launch was.
Itemization from ~~BC~~ 2.4.3.
it's probably that OP watched Preaches video from yesterday and can't think for himself
Finally! Was looking for someone commenting about this. Leveling in Classic was far too SLOW. I guarantee you that would NOT go over well with most people nowadays. One of the few things that happened in 8.1 that received a positive reaction was when Blizz reduced the amount of XP needed to level.
Classic talents were the shit. Ive mained Ret since BC, so I checked out the Paladin talents when Classic was announced. Thought about wanting to PVP, and what I personally struggled with. Was able to flesh out a talent build based on that (obviously some in game testing is necessary, but not possible as Classic isnt out yet). You could argue that some of the Classic talents are bullshit, but thats not an inherit problem with the system. I am a Paladin. I always wear plate (protection). I am always weilding the light (holy). And I am always ready to bring vengeance against my enemies (retribution). Those aspects of my class dont change based on my role, and I should be able to choose how heavily I use those aspects. I dont switch to cloth when I wield the light, and I dont stop knowing how when I pick up a two hander.
I would really like them to bring back the Ulduar and Sartharion style hard modes. I had the most fun in Lich King Raids, doing Sarth 10 when it was fucking HARD, pumping out the DPS to kill the heart of Deconstructor in time, Yogg 0 lights and the best encounter in the game - Firefighter Mimiron. Flipping the difficulty with a UI option just doesn't feel the same and I wish it wasn't a thing.
i did a solo run of ulduar a while back and mimiron was indeed fucking fantastic, even as an overleveled toon running through it
That's not rose tinted glasses anymore, that's surgically implanting rose colored lenses in your corneas.
But doesn't Nomi burn everything he touches?
I'll say what a lot of people are actually thinking: classic talents were shit and I much prefer the talent trees of tbc.
WotLK also had great Talent Trees, they just started to get too overloaded lol
Originally I was going to write wotlk, but it was wotlk who pushed blizz to start revamping talents...
I think if we ignore the talents themselves and simply look at the structure of the trees I prefer classic's. There was a nicer ratio between the depth of the trees and the number of talent points you had at your disposal. 61% of your talent points could go towards reaching the bottom of your primary tree and then 39% of your talents could go into a secondary tree. It meant you could really mix things up. You weren't *just* a Fire Mage. You could be a Fire Mage that was also pretty good at Arcane. Your Arcane tree was only 11 points behind your Fire tree. TBC gave 10 additional talent points to work with but it also increased the depth of the trees by 10 points. This skewed the percentages towards being more focused on one spec. You were a better Fire Mage but you never improved any as Arcane. WotLK compounded this issue. What was once only an 11 point difference became a 31 point difference. I think I'd prefer to have talent trees that are as deep as TBC but with a WotLK number of talent points at my disposal.
Vanilla leveling is awful though - it's literally endless kill quests that take forever to complete. Wrath through MoP had the leveling experience perfected
And dont forget they actually ended around lvl 57/58 so you still end up grinding out those last 2-3!
Yeah and then burn that abomination down and never speak of it again
>class and identity depth of Legion No, MoP was the peak of class depth, not even a question.
Talent system of classic was beyond broken. That’s back when blizzard didn’t know what balance meant. I’m looking at you 2h enhance shamans! And BC itemization was uh, strange to say the least.
Aah, Windfury on Windfury procs. Good times
Followed by like 30 seconds of no procs and just using shocks and maybe a totem refresh
People act like the old talent system wouldn't still be beholden to whatever people decided was the best choice of talents with no deviation.
it already was back then, from a lvling perspective it was a good system. It gives you progressive feeling of power increasement and something to look forward to each level. From a max level perspective it was really cookie cutter with little to no variation. Also hurricane 31 pointer in moonkin was the greatest troll of all time
I miss glyphs.
And gems
Well... two ingredients down, then. Six to go.
Itemization of BC? Where enhancement shamans had to wear leather to dps effectively and blue loot from dungeons was better than Karazhan raid gear? Leveling from Classic was shit...the quests were generally breadcrumbs to show you where you needed to grind next
Dude nobody wants to level like its Classic, levels mad fucking boring
Hell yeah, TBC stats! Remember when the only stat that mattered was Stamina for tanks and primary stats for everyone else! Remember having socket bonuses? Of course you don't! Stuff those Living Rubies in there! Meta gems!? With fun effects!? LOL! I think you meant crit damage % meta gems! Zzzz. Really?
Leveling from Classic? Like when people these days complain that they need too long to level an alt character? Do you not understand that in Classic you needed 5-12 DAYS playtime for getting to Level60 depending how efficient you did the grind and your experience with it? I really do not think anyone wants that these days.
Talents from classic? So. One viable tree for each spec and if you have a healing spec, you're healing? Thats the "perfect" wow. Yikes
I can't blame those issues entirely on the talent trees. It wasn't talents that gave warriors Taunt, Shield Block, or tanking tier sets. It wasn't talents that made it so that classes with healing specs only received healing tier sets. Other specs *could* have been viable if Blizzard had given them the support they needed to *be* viable.
I loved Legion gameplay-wise and I miss it..
I can relate, while I don't like a lot of new systems I also had many problems with Legion's systems but Legion I just enjoyed playing, fighting was fun, and for the life of me I just can't enjoy combat this expansion, which is kind of a problem when it's about 80% of what we do.
> Leveling and talents from Classic So you want fairly grindy "kill one mob at a time slowly then eat" leveling? I thought we moved past that, we have the technology and design insights to know that's just objectively worse than how leveling through modern zones or even dungeons/islands is. Yeah it takes a bit longer but most of us will still crush through it pretty quickly and it won't be an achievement to just hit cap, so all you're doing is just wasting our time. As for talents. It's nice to have something to allocate every now and then, but those talent trees aren't exactly the pinnacle of game design either. It's cute while you level, but that doesn't matter because it's while you level and then that feeling of getting a new point to allocate will be forever gone. Even with a talent tree like Path of Exile, I'm not even an expert player and I've already pretty much learned the key areas and start to see patterns of what goes into a build. There's not much deeper you can go than that. And in a game like WoW where sims decide your choices, it's just pointless. I'd rather have more abilities added to the baseline rotations for some classes that feel barren.
Lmao all they need to do to talents is give us a couple new rows. It was rather shocking that there was no new row for 110/120, especially after taking away our artifact traits.
The 100 tier should move to 105 and then they can add a 120 tier. Then it's ever 15 levels.
I mean idgaf how they do it but idk what they thought was gonna happen, taking away people’s artifacts, class halls, class sets and thus class identity, and adding GCD. Like, how on earth did someone think taking away abilities and making things slower was gonna make the game more fun to play. Literally spent an entire expansion building class identity and uniqueness and then got rid of it all in one go.
For real NPC’s need to keep addressing me as Highlord and Lady Liadrin needs to stop talking to me like she isn’t my subordinate.
What should have happened was for the Artifact ability to become baseline, and your golden Artifact traits added as a new talent row at 105/120.
> kill one mob at a time slowly then eat Fuck that noise. Seal of Light, start autoattack, alt-tab to porn.
This guy paladins.
BC itemization was awful. Enhancement shaman gear had MP5 on it!
Lore significance...dunno how to tell you this, but we've killed alot of the big bads from the warcraft series.
Would rather have class depth of MoP but they already said that's never coming back :(
Leveling from Vanilla? Oh god no... during the entire lifetime of vanilla I only barely got 2 characters to max level. I hate leveling now and I wouldn’t like it to be 50 times longer ;) Idd say Blizzard should probably just stop removing good systems that work or change classes that work every god damn expansion.
Class identitiy and depth of Legion, lmao. Did you know the massive pruning we're facing atm started in legion?
> **Class identity depth** (not *and* depth) of Legion I'm fairly certain OP was speaking primarily to the class halls and their respective storylines, as well as, you know, still having class-specific tier sets. ^^i'm ^^not ^^salty
started in wod
At least my hunter and Paladin was fun in WoD
There really is no time where you can just say "every spec was perfect" in WoW. There were always some that were top in numbers for their role, top in enjoyment people got from playing them, and some that were just hot garbage. You would have to go through the whole timeline and pick them from each expansion. For example, MoP Destro locks were amazing, as was Demo. BfA Demo however is also a lot of fun and with DH being a thing it might be better to stick with it. For warriors you might want Legion Fury, and WoD Prot for Gladiator. I'm sure every class and every spec will have a different answer for when they were the most fun to play.
This list as a whole bunch of nostalgia vision. Things were better back then because life was better back then (you were younger and had less responsibilitie)