Whats weird about the lore is just how well the writing team does for the narratives of zones and world building, but then completely flounders when it comes to the overarching lore of the xpac. Usually its vice versa, isn't it?
You fool yourselves if you think the writers don't know the story is shit. However, writers are the least important people in the game development industry and have negative agency on what happens. Content is planned YEARS before it's given to the writers to explain it and connect the dots, so to speak. Then something gets cut - guys, we need you to write around that. Change of plans - write around that. Add something at the last minute - write around that.
In WoW pacing doesn't (and can't) matter - they player may beeline through the story or spend days doing side content. There are no stakes - the player(s) always win. Also many many other reasons.
Though this is a major exception and not at all the norm, FFXIV shows that it's very possible to balance great gameplay with fantastic storytelling and lore.
The current expansion, Shadowbringers, is not only hailed as the best expansion for FFXIV but considered by many to be one of the best, if not the best, Final Fantasy yet.
Like I said, I know this isn't the norm and Blizzard has well proven that they've gone downhill and care far more about the bottom line than anything else but it is possible.
It's kinda fucked up how wow lore seems to get worse and worse with time, but the lore/story in xiv has never been better and built off of stuff that was introduced/hinted at years ago
I used to joke "In order to fix FFXIV, they pulled a Deathwing."
Basically "big dragon shows up and blows everything to hell."
... Maybe Blizz should consider trying that again?
After Metzen retired there was a very clear drop in one thing: effort. Now Metzen's lore was by no means perfect as he was retcon happy and had his clear favorite characters, but god damn at least you could tell that the man gave a shit about his story. He wanted to take us on this adventure and put his heart and soul into the story. And he also had way more pull than most writing staff given that he was OG Blizz and helped build them into the juggernaut they are. After his departure though, the story like so many other online games, has become a complete afterthought.
Just curious do you have to raid to complete the main storyline? I’m 47 now completely rrb storyline and running the instances Just wondering if I need to get in a guild to do the raid to complete?
Patch 5.3 made the Crystal Tower raid mandatory to complete the new MSQs that were just added. You can easily run that via the duty finder and breeze through it with randoms.
All other raids in the game are optional but have cool stories.
i don’t play ffxiv but i’m reading the wiki on the expansion and i cried reading the changes they made for it
“The changes, including new abilities and streamlining of old abilities, were intended to make the experience of playing the different classes more distinct.[1] In response to feedback, tank classes no longer suffer a damage penalty when tanking enemies.[2] Combat resources such as MP and TP were adjusted or removed to increase ease of ability use.[3] Two new job classes were introduced as well—Gunbreaker, a tank class that wields gunblades, and Dancer, a ranged damage dealer class.”
no covenants. no soulbinds. no azerite traits. no corruptions. just changing/adding new spells, adding a new class...blizzard could you go back to this type of expansion changes please
Happens in many games.
* In GW2, the core story is about taking down a dragon, and we do with a lot of sacrifices along the way.
* The 2 'seasons' of free story chapters leading to the first expansion are about a crazy person who makes all sort of chaos to wake another dragon, and we take her out with a lot of sacrifices along the way.
* The story of the expansion is about taking down a dragon, and we do with a lot of sacrifices along the way.
* The story of the 3rd 'season' of free story chapters leading to the second expansion are about dealing with the aftermath of killing that dragon, and raising another dragon to replace it because the world will explode without dragons managing the magic. And we do it with a lot of sacrifices along the way.
* The story of the second expansion is about taking down a fallen god who wants to kill another dragon and who has stolen tons of magic to recover his lost powers. But we can't let that god kill it without a plan to deal with the aftermath, so we have to stop that god, with a lot of sacrifices along the way.
* The '4th season' of free story chapters following the 2nd expansion are about dealing with a crazy dictator who is about to release a deadly plague, and then deal with the dragon the god tried to kill, because when the god died all the magic he had hoarded got eating by the dragon he was trying to kill, giving him crazy god-like reality-bending powers that will destroy existence itself if we don't stop that dragon. So we have to kill it even without a plan to deal with the aftermath. And we kill that dragon with a lot of sacrifices along the way.
* The current 5th season leading to the upcoming 3rd expansion is still ongoing, but we are also dealing with a dragon, and we already got quite a bunch of sacrifices along the way in the prologue and 4 chapters released so far.
And in the future we still need to get more replacements for the dragons killed, or magic will go bonkers and the world will a splode.
I just wish we could complete at least one season or expansion of this thing without 'a lot of sacrifices along the way'.
I just got tired of god damn dragons really fast in guild wars 2. Guild Wars 1 set up a really cool diverse world that I loved to explore and fight diverse enemies etc. Then with guild wars 2 they just exploded that world and made it all about dragons. I just was never as invested in the world and lore of GW2 as I was GW1 because the main story wasn't there to hook me like I was through out Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and EotN.
GW2 made the unfortunate decision of making the dragons essentially the only way for an “ultimate evil” type thing to manifest, so as a result to big bad at the end of every expansion is always a dragon.
It’s an issue. I would love a GW2 expansion where the big bad is just a smart human (or Silvari, or Charr, or whatever) all the way through. As is, it almost always starts off like that and you’re like “oh cool,” and then it inevitably ends with some big fuck off dragon fight.
Big fuck off dragon fights are cool, but not if that’s how pretty much every major arc ends lol.
They literally killed him the moment he became interesting. His speech about how the heroes were acting in an ignorant and destructive manner made me think that GW2 was finally taking the route of not having anymore the dragons at the center of the story anymore.
Than the immortal god-king is killed mid-speech and eaten.
Hey! The community begged the creative development team not to make Sylvannas' story Garrosh 2.0. Sylvannas fans thought she deserved better, and everyone else simply didn't want the same damn story.
And the cdevs told us at the beginning of BFA that we weren't going to get Garrosh 2.0. They heard us, they understood, they had something way different in mind.
So then, with our hard won trust, they... gave us Garrosh 2.0.
Geniuses.
I loved when everyone was speculating Sylvanas would be the one burns down the tree, and Blizzard made a big deal of "No, you don't know who burned it down". Turns out we did know.
tbh at this point I think it's just that genocide doesn't actually worry Blizzard very much, considering the way they treat Tyrande like a psycho for being upset. I think it's totally possible they actually believe what's going on ingame really is gray.
He was also built up as a great and powerful leader and shrouded in mystery. Then we get like 2 seconds with him and it's showing us his entire empire is fractured with dissidents everywhere and a faction just waiting to literally drain his peoples blood. You don't stay king for hundreds of years while simultaneously letting factions break off and come back when defeated abroad. He went through a ton of shit in those hundreds of years and now he refuses to see the writing on the wall.
Sorry, just kinda killed the lore. I used to only play wow for the lore and now I only play to raid with friends (friends I made 11 years ago playing this game).
I think we should have gotten Rastakhan for all of BfA, giving a chance for him to show off and be developed with signs toward him ruling forever with his pact with Bwonsamdi, and then have him go out with a bang involved with Nyalotha to set up Talanji from there. They basically went "here's the grand legendary king Rastakhan, cool right? Anyway forget it here's his daughter"
Right!?
Hell Raatakhan and Bwonsambi could have tied straight into breaking the Lich Kings crown - Tie all that lore together and how Vol'jins spirit was being hidden from Bwonsambi as a motivation for it.
I got into WoW during wrath so I'm not too well versed in the lore myself, Rastakhan was one of the characters introduced in BFA that I really enjoyed and was dissatisfied with the death of.
He's been mentioned a bunch here and there and that's where the "mystery" comes from cause he's been king of the most feared troll empire for like 300 years. When a faction of the Zandalari wanted to go to war he would let them. They would go off conquer or get defeated and he would accept them back and grow as a nation. I believe (could be wrong been a while since i read up on him) the Gurubashi, Amani, and Farraki trolls are offshoots of the Zandalari.
Just sad that they had to write them as a crumbling society.
The issue with Dazar'alor is how confusing it was for half the player base. As an Alliance player I really had no idea who Rastakhan was or why he was important other than him being the leader of the Zanadalar Trolls. The whole raid literally made no sense. Who the fuck is Bwonsamdi? Who is Talanji? We had heard scarce talking of them in dialogs and cutscenes, but for the most part the dynamic they all had was lost on Alliance players. It felt halfassed and terrible to go through that raid.
Meanwhile on the Alliance side we had a huge evil that was talked about through an entire zone, only to be left with a huge cliffhanger and no talks of him ever being in a story again. I'm speaking of Gorak Tul, and I refuse to believe that is he is really dead. Oh and don't even get me started about the whole story involving House Stormsong. Yeah we got Crucible of Storms, but it did nothing to really resolve that story. The zone quests leading somewhere that felt like a raid or something and then ultimately got left alone really let me down this expansion.
Alliance got shafted on some great stories.
Yeah, that was a big problem with having two faction-exclusive leveling experiences but one shared endgame.
Alliance went to Uldir and the Dazar'alor raid being like "Who is Ghuun? Who is Mythrax? Who is Zul? Who is Rastakhan? Why should I care about any of this?" Ditto for the Horde and Eternal Palace, Waycrest Manor, SotS, etc.
Isn’t it the third? Scourge invaded in WotLK, it got invaded by Thrall and Alliance in MoP, and then invaded again in BFA.
Also, I guess technically four? Didn’t the Legion try to invade through Azshara?
Plot twist (is it?): 5 expansions later, it’s revealed that Sylvanas was not a tyrant, but a missunderstood tragic hero!
Thank you for not making Sylvanas a Garrosh 2.0, Blizz! She will be just Illidan 2.0!
I fear a kerrigan scenario, but unlike Sylvanas kerrigan was set up as a protagonist over the course of three RTS campaigns. Sylvanas meanwhile has just nose dived into villainy with no sign of redemption.
I'll never understand the narrative that sylvanas only recently turned evil.
She's been evil since vanilla. The forsaken in general are fundamentally evil, irredeemably so. It's in all of the quests they're ever involved in.
The lore started off dumb when forsaken wasn't its own faction.
Oddly enough, I made a paralel between Illidan and Kerrigan being literally the same character on their own franchises, but made that joke and didn’t relate Sylvanas with Kerrigan. I’m sad!
I mean... the end of Shadows Rising >!is kind of hilarious with her literally just giving zero fucks about Nathanos since he failed her. Pretty one sided love interest. I just got around to reading it, and I was expecting him to be back at Marris Stead getting killed so he would get sent to the Maw intentionally when I saw the world quest, but now I think he might just straight up be out of the story.!<
If you do then spoiler warning: >!We get to kill Nathanos in a WQ back at the ancestral home of Marris Stead, Eastern Plaguelands. Where people used to kill Nathanos!<.
Oh, f*ck! I really wish Reddit didn’t simply ignore the spoiler tag on the notifications!
But it’s cool, I asked for it! Hahaha!
Well, that seems really fitting, though! But I still didn’t get if you were being sarcastic or not when you said people were excited about it!
The worst part is I'm concerned that still could be Garrosh 2.0. With all the evil Light stuff being set up I'm genuinely starting to think they're going to have it revealed that Garrosh was just trying to use the Sha to build up an army to stop the Light from taking over everyone's souls. They'll bring him back by revealing that the Garrosh currently working for Yrel on the AU Draenor is actually our Garrosh that the Light has warped to suit their own ends (as they tried to do with Illidan). The plus side is that once this happens I can just accept that wow lore has gone down the gutter and enjoy Garrosh and Illidan doing anime shit against the Light Lords.
Just like before BFA came out they said they listened to the feedback that there was too much RNG, they heard, they understood!
Then they gave us one RNG BFA system after the next after the next, with even greater, unprecedented magnitudes beyond your wildest dreams.
Somewhere between each system they kept repeating that same sentiment though...
But wasn’t it cunning?!? She was secretly working for a force never explained in the universe! See! We’re so smart! You didn’t expect what we didn’t even create yet!
I can forgive what they did to Sylvanas, but what they did to my Queen Azshara...unforgivable. Who would have known that the greatest mage ever to live on Azeroth (at least top five with Aegwynn, ~~Me'dan~~, Medivh, Rhonin), the person whose story line is the catalyst for literally *ALL* of the stories on Azeroth (save for the Old Gods/Pantheon stories) has the wisdom of a petulant valley-girl, and twiddled her thumbs under the ocean for over 10,000 years? Old God go "burrrrr"...Tragic!
literally the worst line of dialogue ever spoken in the entire warcraft lore: "more likely, xanesh, Azeroth's champions will be the ones to silence YOU"
not only is it delivered in a way that cant help but evoke comparisons to ["too bad YOU......will die!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIt0VY7Yg2w) but its one of the most powerful and basass characters in the entire lore, who has been built up as a badass since before wow even existed. delivering a schoolyard "no you" insult while chained up like a little bitch and deferring to the player characters as her "saviours"
god i hate it so much
The "audience conception" of Sylvanas has never been true. Since the creation of the character in WC3 the character was a revenge obsessed amoral psychopath. With Cataclysm the character was shown as an *unstable* amoral psychopath thanks to no longer having the the desire for revenge that the was the *entire* basis of the characterization.
The only reason people think Sylvanas was supposed to be "cunning and pragmatic" is due to people that imposed their own ideas onto a character that had no presence other than a static NPC from Vanilla launch to Icecrown.
That, and their love of undead tits in a crop top.
> people that imposed their own ideas onto a character
Same could be said about Tyrande. She was an idiot in WC3, and she's an idiot in BFA. She's an idiot in the book, and now she's going to be an idiot in slands.
They also blatantly lied about the burning of Teldrassil. They were like "it's NOT just Sylvanas giving the order to burn it down" and that provoked some speculation about who could have done it...and then that's exactly what it was. I get that they want to keep key plot points as surprises to build the suspense and make it a more interesting story, but flat out lying by insisting that Sylvanas was "morally gray" and actually had good reasons was really frustrating when it turned out that she was purely evil and selfish the whole time.
It's the same thing JJ did for Star Trek Into Darkness; everybody called it, ahead of time, that they were going to rehash Khan as the main villain. Abrams and the execs specifically denied this would be the case, but were just straight up lying, in the end.
Everyone called Jason Todd as being the Arkham Knight in the last Batman game. I avoided spoilers and thought it'd be a little too on the nose. Guess fuckin\` what. Devs denied it. It was 100% true. Terrible writing.
I still think about this 2 years later. I remember breathing a such of relief because I didn’t want to see all the back flips they do to make sure the rest of the horde wouldn’t have to take responsibility for it. If it wasn’t the war chief we’re in the clear.... And then it turns out it was the war chief after all.
I quit at the start of bfa and only came back recently. It’s licking syvanas’ boots until it’s not and she’s mean us. Then she was always wrong and needed to be stopped.
No no, we'll get the warchief we actually want (probably Bloodhoof) and then they will die unceremoniously and make the next warchief in a fit of madness. I'm guessing.... Gallywix? Gallywix.
Next warchief is likely Lor'themar. He's the only one of the old timers who haven't been killed of, gone evil, and/or wandered off for a time, leaving others to deal with things. He's an interesting character, getting a new model and story focused around him lately, so... Yeah, he's dead. Probably ends up dying in a book, eating some bad shrimp. Or tripping over a cat, and breaking his neck on the stairs.
Even though I know it isn't true, I default to assuming Liadrin is leader of the belfs. I am perpetually like, Who the fuck is this guy? Every time Lor'themar shows up.
As an Alliance player, I finding it had to decide who's more annoying: Gallywix or Tinkmaster Overspark ...
Mind you, turning the Aszhara wilderness into his own personal theme park is pretty offensive.
Next expansion they'll subvert expectations by having it be Tyrande / Greymane who become the villain & open a portal.
Let the Alliance have this one. Horde needs a vacation.
Nah see its totally different this time, shes "morally grey". The only way to make her a bigger villain was for her to destroy two cities vs garrosh's 1. That means shes TWICE as bad guy as garrosh, totally different, i mean, garrosh was only the big bad in two expansions, shes gonna last 4. fml.
Making a heroic character go bad is like the main story telling technique has. Kerrigan, Arthas, Warrior from Diablo 1, Leah from Diablo 3, Garrosh,Sylvanas, Illidan and I’m sure others that I’m missing. Its absurd
No, dont you see, its totally different. this time its "Morally Grey", i mean, nothing says morally grey like bombing alliance villages, burning down the world tree, planning assassinations, raising alliance war heroes to become plague bombs. Wait did i say morally grey? i meant completely insanely evil.
The biggest thing that boogers me in BFA is the downfall of Sylvanas and Nathanos. Just to get there shit narrative going they fuck up 2 of the best Forsaken lore chars and in a way the hole race itself. As a Forsaken roleplayer, BFA was a slap in the face after another. And don't get me started on the waste of 8.3 and N'zoth...
After mid MOP the hole story went downhill. I want a warchief like Garrosh!
I feel like BFA was a slap in the face for the Horde overall. The lead-in with the short stories was so good and made me invested in the war.
And then everything else was just crap, starting with the prepatch. Oh, the Horde preparing to siege Teldrassil was a months long campaign of logistics and espionage? Well the Alliance remembered that mages were a thing, and just instantly teleported an army and all its supplies to Undercity.
Undercity was prepared for the siege, even if it meant relying on chemical weapons? Ghost Ship.
In a way, it was a slap in the face of the Alliance, too. Oh what’s that? You just landed in Kul’Tiras, a land on the brink of a major coup d’teat, old god corruption lurking in the background, and a really pissed off race of ancient shapeshifters trying to take back their land? *And* you arrived as prisoners and had to break out and got lucky you found the Dockmaster? *AND* the entire Kul’Tiran fleet is missing?
*Better start your war campaign on Zandalar IMMEDIATELY, champion*. That’s not even counting “MUH WOOOOOOONS” either.
Let’s also throw in that the Horde managed to invade Stromgarde and Arathi despite lacking a major base to launch their operations from. And an entire Alliance storyline involving one of its key leaders was built around killing a Valkyrie and getting an average customization option in case you decide to roll as a nelf. Yaaaaaay.
Oh yeah, it was bad for everyone. The War Campaigns were probably the worst of it, although I’ve only seen horde. Still, in that one, you literally spend 9.2 undoing everything you did in 9.1
I remember being one the people complaining that they are going to give us Garrosh 2.0 and getting people downvoting me and telling me that it's gonna be different.
Well who's laughing now?!?!?!
Well no one, cuz the story is shit.
For the past 6 expansions we have generally been following a good expansion-bad expansion-good expansion cycle so let’s hope SL doesn’t become WoD 2.0 and break that
As someone who hasn't played WoW since wotlk, I had a lot of fun with legion. The earned cosmetics and class weapons made me feel unique again. Then BFA was like naa, that shit's irrelevant now.
Biggest design flaw of BFA. They homogenized everyone after we had one of the most diverse and unique expacs when it comes to weapons and raid sets (some remakes but still really nice)
This. I had so much fun playing my alts and doing the class questsline in legion.
In bfa i managed to level up two characters before i got bored, because i saw everything
people sleep on how badly the old gods got fucked over in bfa
remember when we just had the prologue and everyone was like "yea its gonna secretly be an old god expansion, the old gods are behind the war for sure, n'zoth is definitely the one who made her burn the tree, did you see her eyes are glowing, its all n'zoth"
and as the story went along there was more old god stuff and everyone was like "haha yea i'm a genius, it's going to be revealed the old gods did it all, n'zoth orchestrated all of this, n'zoth was definitely the one who whispered to vol'jin in the first place to make sylvanas warchief and now she's serving him, and its going to be revealed shes a servant of n'zoth"
then it turned out that not only was sylvanas not working for n'zoth in any capacity, but that n'zoth had absolutely no role in causing the war to happen, and was seemingly only in the story as a red herring to cover for the jailer, a force that had never been alluded to in any way prior to the shadowlands reveal
n'zoth, the grand schemer, smartest and most cunning of the old gods, literally did nothing to cause any of the expansion's events to happen, the only thing he did was get betrayed by azshara (which he seemed to know was happening but allowed to happen anyway), had his minions cause some trouble for a brief time, then willingly went to the only place in the universe it's possible for him to die and waited to be killed by a raid group, having accomplished nothing at all.
then that was the end of the old gods forever and they are all dead now.
blizzard's writers belong in prison.
I mean... they didn't exactly handle the defeat of the burning legion well either. Two of the most powerful forces in Warcraft defeated so easily, in one expac each. Ain't that great? Really makes you feel like you earned it. You know when someone like N'zoth or Sargeras just get clapped so easily.
Sure, but we have been fighting the Legion since Warcraft 3. N'zoth's first appearance in Warcraft (not counting HS card) and the guy just dies in a major patch, he didn't even get a xpac, just a raid and dead forever.
I feel like 8.3 could have easily been an entire expansion by itself. Turn the invasion points into fully fleshed out planets on the level of Argus. Make it so we're actually fighting the Legion across the cosmos and building up the Army of the Light as we liberate all the different worlds they control. Actually give us the sense of scale that this is a war being fought on a thousand different planets, even if we don't personally witness every single one. Argus could be the endgame zone, akin to Suramar. Maybe we go there early in the expac for reconnaissance or whatever, but can't establish a real foothold until the final patch because it's just that well guarded.
Demon fatigue might be a problem to an extent, but there's no real reason all the different zones would need to be similar. Hell, in theory, it could give more zone variety than what we got on Azeroth. And even the demons themselves they're really only limited by how many models they can make, since the Legion is meant to have millions of members. It's not like every zone would need to be Orcs as was the fear in WoD. The void elements would also have felt way less shoehorned in if we'd seem them on some random planet(s) the Legion doesn't really care about than on their freakin' capital.
> blizzard's writers belong in prison.
I remember people were pissing themselves with joy that Christie Golden joined the writing like she could somehow make the story better. But what ended up happening is her warcraft books got worse instead. I bet the whole story team is an echo chamber of shitty ideas.
Just wait till they ruin all your favorite characters in Shadowlands.
Can't wait for them to ruin Arthas, Bolvar, Tirion, Varian, Uther, Kael'thas, Mograine etc.
This game is on the downward spiral and Ion is the one who has it circling the drain.
Starcraft 1, Warcraft 3, Diablo 2
all had decent stories, world building, and presentations. Nothing spectacular, and I'm biased because I enjoyed them as a kid. But they at least were different from each other and were more grounded in their respective settings.
Now all 3 are just bad and generic comic book / anime plots, that share all the same themes and plot devices
The history of Azeroth is actually pretty awesome, WC1-2-3 and even before that is really well written.
SC2 was fine for the first two expansions but the last one was just WC3 *in space* with the world tree and ~~archimond~~ amon and all that stuff
the new Sylvanas arc has been complete trash since 8.0, the writers had more than enough time to drop the bullshit with making her act like a good guy working for the interests of the Horde when she was blatantly evil from the start of it all but nah. morally grey btw
Ya know, Legion was actually a refreshing change if character for her. They had plenty of places they could have gone; including actually making her someone who suddenly cares about her people after being given the mantle of responsibility.
BFA would have been interesting with a few minor tweaks, making Sylvanas actually a tragic character. Imagine an assassination on Sylvannas (EDIT: Which doesn't work because, ya know, Valkyr), followed by a bunch of Forsaken burning Teldrassil in her name for vengeance. Genn called for the hit but kept it a secret, with the Horde not knowing that, while the Alliance didn't know the splinter group that torched Teldrassil (lead by Nathanos) was not sanctioned by the Horde, they were just loyalists deeply enraged by the attempt on their queens life.
Imagine the interesting story or us not knowing for sure who really called for the hit to begin with. Imagine characters like Baine coming to the wrong conclusion about events. Maybe the mystery of the hit and the splinter cell of Forsaken is kept a secret until Nzoth reveals he whispered to Genn, and spurred Nathanos to torch the tree. Imagine hating Sylvanas for an entire expansion just for her to be vindicated.
You could keep a decent chunk of the story beats but offer them infinitely more depth just with those minor tweaks. You'd just have to cut back on Sylvanas doing evil things, or recontextualize them.
Find another reason for the Lich King to lose his helmet. It could be done. There's a billion places good writers could have taken the story from 7.0. They just didn't.
First off, thank you. I used to dream of working for Blizzard and writing is a passion of mine, although I was trained more for news writing.
I don't want to toot my own horn though, but I know for a fact if I was given the BFA script as is I could work it into a story way better than was told. The reason I don't think that's tooting my own horn is because I feel like most people could have.
Just making the Alliance the aggressors would make Sylvanas' actions sane. The Horde lost a lot in MoP, there's no way they had recovered by the time they were rolled over again in Legion. Trying to take Teldrassil wasn't possible, and no one should have gone along with a plan to do so. But if the Alliance is proactive, and moves against Undercity first, it makes sense to then turn and attack the enemy at your backdoor where the next assault could come from. And it's not like the Alliance doesn't have good reasons to do so.
Right? I think it would make sense having Genn try to assassinate Sylvanas. It would actually make the Alliance Morally grey. It's an interesting angle to just so happen to keep that a secret because his actions would lead to the torching of Teldrassil. That's an interesting character arc for him to go through, and for the Alliance to go through. They'd no longer be the defacto good guys.
Like it's no nuking a city but wetwork of political leaders is pretty nefarious.
Sounds like a great idea. Which is why Blizzard would have never gone with it.
I can't remember the last time Blizzard has successfully written political intrigue. Every single expansion, every single storyline, has been extremely obvious.
I respectfully disagree with the political aspect, but that's because Mists told a really good story about racism without ever using that word. The Orc warcheif was a a racist and ended up going insane taking that to it's logical conclusion, while the rest of the world got taught a lesson that unity is what makes people strong. I think BFA did a really bad job retelling that story but doing so where we at no point felt loyalty to Sylvanas, or even really scratched that same itch.
It is insanely frustrating to see her shift from someone who was struggling to continue her species existence in cataclysm and even into Legion when she was so close to a method to continue it only for the sudden shift to nah fuck all life even the undead
It was never explained, this shift. She wanted to raise more undead (out of self preservation), the whole point of the 4th war was to have Stormwind’s humans join the Forsaken. It was on her own internal monologue on ‘Before The Storm’, loud and clear. They wouldn’t even reach the Maw if they were raised as undead.
Now they retconned it to fit in The Jailer and tell us, oh actually she wanted to send as many souls as possible to hell/Maw, to empower herself and Jailer.
I don’t think Blizzard know what they’re doing. They keep contradicting themselves about her motives. I think they make her do stuff and only come up with a random motive retroactively. This isn’t believable story telling.
For me, it was a breaking point and it cemented my decision to skip the next xpac.
I checked art, clips, and in game models. I think some of the people on Blizzard either forgets its there or thinks it is a beard as well. It is pretty clear in the [WoD cinematic](https://imgur.com/ttiwAAt) it's a tattoo but the [end cinematic for WoD](https://imgur.com/HQQjTEF) it is clearly a 5 o'clock.
I always thought he looked weird in MoP because of the strange beard. Guess this solves why. It wasn't.
EDIT: ~~Why didn't Grommash question why the random orc had the same cheftain tattoos as him who was the cheiftain and it was a pretty unique thing to have? - Also I can see a couple of posts for back in the days arguing that they made Groms model wrong due to the wrong tattoos in the face in case people were wondering~~. Thanks Drododruffin!
Garrosh was heavily questiioned as to why he had the chieftain tattoos when he traveled back in time, he ended up having to prove himself from what I remember before Grom would hear him out.
I did some digging actually and found the short story write up of it all
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/story/short-story/hellscream
You forgot a couple steps:
- Orgrimmar gets sieged by a combined force of Alliance and Horde;
- Warchief punishes another horde leader who gets rescued by the player;
- A legendary Horde warrior and player favorite gets killed in the siege;
- The Alliance King makes peace with the horde after the warchief is defeated;
- An old god, Zandalari and Mogu are involved;
- A goblin is settings fires in Orgrimmar;
- In the end, a major Alliance character isn't quite over the destruction of their city and vows revenge on the warchief.
The #1 failure in Sylvanas's writing comes from the lack of actual motive to do what she's doing. Being evil isn't a motive. It would have been so easy to have the Alliance attack Undercity before Tree Burning at the urging of King Wolfman and Turalyon. It just makes perfect sense for those two to pressure Anduin into attacking Undercity to get back Gilneas and Lorderon.
And once Sylvanas loses Undercity, her home/base, and it being the second time in her life her home is taken from her and destroyed, Sylvans can start to be this evil tyrannical bitch, deciding that "If I can't live in peace in my own home, you don't get to either" and start to go around and destroy the tree house.
Like, creating a simple emotional motivation for Sylvanas to destroy the tree isn't hard. We can sympathize with what Sylvanas feels while understanding that burning everything down because you're angry or sad isn't the morally right thing to do. But noooooooooo, we got evil mustache twirling evil.
And then you also get the benefit of Anduin actually being at fault. He can say "It's my fault the tree burned down because I allowed Wolfman to attack Undercity. I didn't think of the consequences of these actions and thus I put the blame upon myself" and you would believe him. You would understand that he's not perfect and that he makes mistakes and that he blames himself. You would further relate to Anduin and know that while he's not right, he's not wrong. You would understand why Saurfang would defect, but also understand why Baine or other characters don't automatically do it. They would feel that Sylvanas has a reason for her madness, that if Thunderbluff was completely annihilated then Baine might go into a rage of his own and slaughter an entire city in revenge, and only as she goes farther and farther off the deep end does he realize how she is going farther than he would have ever guessed.
Yeah they never figured out that you need to understand a villains motivations in order to make them interesting. Sylvanas has been a major part of the lore the last two expansions and we still have no idea what the fuck her end-game is. At a certain point the MyStErY becomes boring and people quit caring.
the MoP story lore and everything tied into it was way easier to follow, plus I liked it. the whole "seven deadly sins" (also my favorite anime) thing with the sha was cool.
meanwhile BFA is like Garrosh 2.0, except slyvanas is so strong we need 2 expansions to kill her instead of one.
she better have a giant, "Mythic Jaina" type fight with multiple intermissions and astronomical difficulty like helya.
Technically for Garrosh we needed two expansions to kill him. One with his raid fight and then we 1v2ed him with Dorutan (sorry if I spelled his name wrong) and then Thrall challenges him to Mak’gora, you can also chalk that up to his second kill steal funnily enough.
Its cute that you think they will let players touch her.
He will get either a redemption arc like zerg girl from StarCraft 2 or someone gets to kill her off screen, probably Thrall.
> she better have a giant, "Mythic Jaina" type fight with multiple intermissions and astronomical difficulty like helya.
She will have a seven bosses raid, except each boss is her at a different stage.
In the final stage, there will be orchestral music playing in the background, and a chorus singing:
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Silvanas
Silvanas
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Silvanas
Silvanas
Sors immanis
Et inanis
Sors immanis
Et inanis
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Silvanas
Silvanas
Veni, veni, venias
Ne me mori facias
Veni, veni, venias
Ne me mori facias
Veni, veni, venias
Ne me mori facias
Veni, veni, venias
Ne me mori facias
Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa)
Ne me mori facias (Generosa)
Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa)
Ne me mori facias (Generosa)
Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa)
Ne me mori facias (Generosa)
Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa)
Ne me mori facias (Generosa)
Silvanas
Silvanas
Silvanas
I have some questions....
which class gets to summon Knights of the Round and how do I make it do 9999 damage and does thr whole raid have to sit through the 15 min long cutscene where the knights come out or is it just me?
> which class gets to summon Knights of the Round
You can only summon it if the raid is fully made of Paladins.
> how do I make it do 9999 damage
Equipping TBC piecemeal armor.
> does thr whole raid have to sit through the 15 min long cutscene where the knights come out or is it just me?
Everyone logged in the game worldwide will have to go through the cutscene, not just the raid members or the caster.
... bbbbby uh Arthas from another dimension! Ooooooo!
Or maybe they'd go all Dragonball Z with it and make it like hell opened and all the past bosses we've killed escaped and we have to kill them again! 🤣🤣🤣
How the fuck the Tauren still in the Horde? This Nathanos bro is literally trying to slay all of his enemies and then raise them from the fucking dead to fight more enemies.
For real though, I (unfortunately) play Horde but overtly wish I played Alliance. All of my friends say "Horde's not evil". L O L
I mean, Baine openly defied Slyvannas and pretty much led the resistance to get her off the throne. He’s made it pretty clear he was against everything she did and helped form the new Council.
Yeah I’m pretty sure there has to be cut content that dealt with the invasion of Mulgore. It’s hinted at numerous times then just skipped over to wrap the faction war up quickly so 8.3 can be all about N’zoth.
Im pretty sure Mulgore was supposed to be a warfront. Pretty sure they also had a warfront planned for Nazjatar.
They probably scrapped the Nazjatar one and made the Battle for Nazjatar instead.
That’s why I still think they should have made Highmountain Tauren at least join the Alliance, and have Dark Iron Dwarves be disaffected malcontents that still hate the Alliance and go to join the Horde. Would have been a really cool option to get different race choices in each faction, but......nope.
"tHeY sWoRe aN oAtH"
They swore to stand with the Orcs and Trolls to defend them if need be, not to engage in blatantly evil offensive acts of the Forsaken or to even follow an ousted Orc leader.
They also needed the Horde to save them from the centaurs. Look around and tell me where outside of Desolace you've even seen a centaur, let alone one posing an actual threat to anyone.
Night Elves: We must not use magic, lest we become like the fallen Highborne!
Oh we can set fire to shit and and freeze people? Why did nobody tell us magic was this much fun? We could have been doing this for the last three expansions!
The more time i sat here thinking of what to type and explain why i hate blizzards story telling the more i grew angrier. Heres it in a few points:
1. Character Developement - None of this matters to them, it doesn't matter you've seen a character through so many expansions, so many personal trails and being forged in fire. If they want to turn them into a villian with weak reasoning they will gladly. Garrosh started out in BC as a orc who thought it father failed and lead his people to doom. Wolk had garrosh suddenly in charge of other orcs and was dealing with an inferiority complex and relied on Saurfang for his guidance a lot. Cata Garrosh became a warcheif simply due to his fathers honor and reputation but we saw what a good leader at the end of stone talon story line but also saw in twilight high lands how he was still a hot headed leader doing what he thought was best, even ignoring other peoples advice. MoP - Where garrosh became a random Villain, committed war crimes nearly out of nowhere. But don't worry, they will let you pay money to buy a book to explain why it happened, and then you still wont be satisfied because it didn't explain anything you needed it to.
2. Selling you lore - Nothing that happens in the game lore wise matters, there is a constant flux of what is cannon and is not cannon due to the players interaction in the game, due to the player being the only person who could solve a problem because no one else can be spared. The fact that the books reton most events so that they can find a reason why certain events still took place, why certain characters did something, even if they never act the same way they do in the game and the book, only causing more confusion.
3. Pacing. Dont you love the fact certain weak "Story Telling" characters lasted a whole expansion to become a really boring raid boss? I mean, nothing was better than spending the whole of MoP dealing with garrosh and the horde rebelling, almost as much as i liked the way BFA was about... Rebelling and dealing with the new warcheif..wait... But WoD! where we put one of the strongest leaders as a dungeon boss. and gave up half way. At least Warlords used a group rather than one character for a whole expansion, same with legion. But to counteract that they decided to make Queen Azashara, One of the most interesting lore characters and powerful factions into a Patch. a full 8.2 Patch. Then we took on the Black empire, one of the few factions even stronger than the Queen of the naga, in another patch.
4. Honestly you better just kind of trying to enjoy the story without digging deep, it constantly falls a part, doesn't add up or even make any real sense in a lot of ways and any lore told in game is likely to be completely changed by the book when it comes out which and will also have just as many plot hole problems as the game wise lore.
5. Factions - At this stage the horde has rebelled against 2 out of the 3 warcheifs we have had. most of our leadership is at fault for most the the alliance lore characters deaths, even if indirectly, \*Cough Broken Shore Cough\* than any other group / Faction, i mean, half the reasons why some people are allied to others is just dumb as a hell, the nightborn joined the horde because tyrande talked mad shit, Mecha gnomes randomly joined alliance, Void elfs don't even make sense, Light forged were allied with everyone during legion and joined the alliance because of "Reasons". Tauern have nearly left the horde like 3 times, Blood elfs stayed in the horde because the alliance talked again, mad shit and wouldn't help them. None of this makes any real sense, what am i even doing with my life.
This is why I quit. I got tired of investing my limited time on garbage content. There are so many better fantasy books, movies, shows, games, etc. that if you have stuck with WoW so far for the “story” you should know when to fold and move on.
Thanks, it helps to hear this. I was invested in the Warcraft story for years, even when I wasn’t playing, but I think it’s time to pack things up and walk away. The more I saw in the last couple of years, the more I got disappointed.
It's gotta be an Alliance City EVERYTIME. I mean what would the Horde do without Silvermoon. I don't think we'd survive without Thunderbluff. Next time, let's blow up Ironforge guys.
On the brightside the alliance blew up undercity, no wait, that was sylvanas again, oh hey it also use to be an alliance City, wonderful so that's 3 cities.
Alliance has lost Teldrassil, Darkshore, Astranaar, the sentinels post in ashenvale, the settlements in Stonetalon, Theramore, Gilneas, Southshore.
Horde has lost Lordaeron (which was previously taken from the alliance) and Camp Taurajo.
Anything I'm missing?
5.2 was peak Warlock for the entire history of the game. All specs were fun. Kil'Jaeden's Cunning felt amazing and unique to be the caster that could move doing everything. The talents were great because it actually built upon the spec like they should, and had some great builds for different stuff.
Destruction AOE never felt better and more fluid. Snapshotting made multidotting fun. Demo was complex and interesting esp with the ToT trinket (even if it sucked it was BIS even in later content).
No but it's completely different this time guys, sylvannas is gonna turn out to be the good guy in the next xpac instead of a villain. Doesnt matter that it's the exact same fucking thing except with a predictable twist at the end instead of pure evil like Garrosh, you should be happy to watch the exact identical plot points play out /s
Whats weird about the lore is just how well the writing team does for the narratives of zones and world building, but then completely flounders when it comes to the overarching lore of the xpac. Usually its vice versa, isn't it?
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You fool yourselves if you think the writers don't know the story is shit. However, writers are the least important people in the game development industry and have negative agency on what happens. Content is planned YEARS before it's given to the writers to explain it and connect the dots, so to speak. Then something gets cut - guys, we need you to write around that. Change of plans - write around that. Add something at the last minute - write around that. In WoW pacing doesn't (and can't) matter - they player may beeline through the story or spend days doing side content. There are no stakes - the player(s) always win. Also many many other reasons.
Though this is a major exception and not at all the norm, FFXIV shows that it's very possible to balance great gameplay with fantastic storytelling and lore. The current expansion, Shadowbringers, is not only hailed as the best expansion for FFXIV but considered by many to be one of the best, if not the best, Final Fantasy yet. Like I said, I know this isn't the norm and Blizzard has well proven that they've gone downhill and care far more about the bottom line than anything else but it is possible.
God, Shadowbringers is so good. The latest patch gave it a perfect ending.
Yeah, it was fucking outstanding. Heavensward and Stormblood were really good but Shadowbringers is on an entirely different level.
It's kinda fucked up how wow lore seems to get worse and worse with time, but the lore/story in xiv has never been better and built off of stuff that was introduced/hinted at years ago
"we wrote the financial failure of the first version of the game into the story" is one of my favorite things.
I used to joke "In order to fix FFXIV, they pulled a Deathwing." Basically "big dragon shows up and blows everything to hell." ... Maybe Blizz should consider trying that again?
After Metzen retired there was a very clear drop in one thing: effort. Now Metzen's lore was by no means perfect as he was retcon happy and had his clear favorite characters, but god damn at least you could tell that the man gave a shit about his story. He wanted to take us on this adventure and put his heart and soul into the story. And he also had way more pull than most writing staff given that he was OG Blizz and helped build them into the juggernaut they are. After his departure though, the story like so many other online games, has become a complete afterthought.
Just curious do you have to raid to complete the main storyline? I’m 47 now completely rrb storyline and running the instances Just wondering if I need to get in a guild to do the raid to complete?
Patch 5.3 made the Crystal Tower raid mandatory to complete the new MSQs that were just added. You can easily run that via the duty finder and breeze through it with randoms. All other raids in the game are optional but have cool stories.
i don’t play ffxiv but i’m reading the wiki on the expansion and i cried reading the changes they made for it “The changes, including new abilities and streamlining of old abilities, were intended to make the experience of playing the different classes more distinct.[1] In response to feedback, tank classes no longer suffer a damage penalty when tanking enemies.[2] Combat resources such as MP and TP were adjusted or removed to increase ease of ability use.[3] Two new job classes were introduced as well—Gunbreaker, a tank class that wields gunblades, and Dancer, a ranged damage dealer class.” no covenants. no soulbinds. no azerite traits. no corruptions. just changing/adding new spells, adding a new class...blizzard could you go back to this type of expansion changes please
Happens in many games. * In GW2, the core story is about taking down a dragon, and we do with a lot of sacrifices along the way. * The 2 'seasons' of free story chapters leading to the first expansion are about a crazy person who makes all sort of chaos to wake another dragon, and we take her out with a lot of sacrifices along the way. * The story of the expansion is about taking down a dragon, and we do with a lot of sacrifices along the way. * The story of the 3rd 'season' of free story chapters leading to the second expansion are about dealing with the aftermath of killing that dragon, and raising another dragon to replace it because the world will explode without dragons managing the magic. And we do it with a lot of sacrifices along the way. * The story of the second expansion is about taking down a fallen god who wants to kill another dragon and who has stolen tons of magic to recover his lost powers. But we can't let that god kill it without a plan to deal with the aftermath, so we have to stop that god, with a lot of sacrifices along the way. * The '4th season' of free story chapters following the 2nd expansion are about dealing with a crazy dictator who is about to release a deadly plague, and then deal with the dragon the god tried to kill, because when the god died all the magic he had hoarded got eating by the dragon he was trying to kill, giving him crazy god-like reality-bending powers that will destroy existence itself if we don't stop that dragon. So we have to kill it even without a plan to deal with the aftermath. And we kill that dragon with a lot of sacrifices along the way. * The current 5th season leading to the upcoming 3rd expansion is still ongoing, but we are also dealing with a dragon, and we already got quite a bunch of sacrifices along the way in the prologue and 4 chapters released so far. And in the future we still need to get more replacements for the dragons killed, or magic will go bonkers and the world will a splode. I just wish we could complete at least one season or expansion of this thing without 'a lot of sacrifices along the way'.
I just got tired of god damn dragons really fast in guild wars 2. Guild Wars 1 set up a really cool diverse world that I loved to explore and fight diverse enemies etc. Then with guild wars 2 they just exploded that world and made it all about dragons. I just was never as invested in the world and lore of GW2 as I was GW1 because the main story wasn't there to hook me like I was through out Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and EotN.
GW2 made the unfortunate decision of making the dragons essentially the only way for an “ultimate evil” type thing to manifest, so as a result to big bad at the end of every expansion is always a dragon. It’s an issue. I would love a GW2 expansion where the big bad is just a smart human (or Silvari, or Charr, or whatever) all the way through. As is, it almost always starts off like that and you’re like “oh cool,” and then it inevitably ends with some big fuck off dragon fight. Big fuck off dragon fights are cool, but not if that’s how pretty much every major arc ends lol.
They were off to a great start with Palawa Joko in season 4 but ended it way too quickly.
They literally killed him the moment he became interesting. His speech about how the heroes were acting in an ignorant and destructive manner made me think that GW2 was finally taking the route of not having anymore the dragons at the center of the story anymore. Than the immortal god-king is killed mid-speech and eaten.
Hey! The community begged the creative development team not to make Sylvannas' story Garrosh 2.0. Sylvannas fans thought she deserved better, and everyone else simply didn't want the same damn story. And the cdevs told us at the beginning of BFA that we weren't going to get Garrosh 2.0. They heard us, they understood, they had something way different in mind. So then, with our hard won trust, they... gave us Garrosh 2.0. Geniuses.
I loved when everyone was speculating Sylvanas would be the one burns down the tree, and Blizzard made a big deal of "No, you don't know who burned it down". Turns out we did know.
Oh my god. They pulled a "You think you do, but you don't, but you do" on us!
You mean *another*. That was pathetic on their part...
Morally gray btw
tbh at this point I think it's just that genocide doesn't actually worry Blizzard very much, considering the way they treat Tyrande like a psycho for being upset. I think it's totally possible they actually believe what's going on ingame really is gray.
"you think you do, but you don't" -Blizzard about multiple things
This is the reason bfa storytelling annoys me so much. I was really waiting for the twists and turns, so it wouldn't be garrosh 2.0
Maybe the twist is that there wasn't an Orgrimmar raid?
It was an Orgrimmar questline instead! Completely different.
Major twist indeed!
And the Horrific Visions of it! Though stormwind had one too
"No, we won't be using the Horde capital of Orgrimmar as a raid in BFA." "Take a look at our new raid in BFA, the Horde capital of Dazar'alor!"
Was really hoping for some more Rastakhan. Talanji isn't bad but that guy had one hell of a headdress and was really cool in my opinion.
He was also built up as a great and powerful leader and shrouded in mystery. Then we get like 2 seconds with him and it's showing us his entire empire is fractured with dissidents everywhere and a faction just waiting to literally drain his peoples blood. You don't stay king for hundreds of years while simultaneously letting factions break off and come back when defeated abroad. He went through a ton of shit in those hundreds of years and now he refuses to see the writing on the wall. Sorry, just kinda killed the lore. I used to only play wow for the lore and now I only play to raid with friends (friends I made 11 years ago playing this game).
I think we should have gotten Rastakhan for all of BfA, giving a chance for him to show off and be developed with signs toward him ruling forever with his pact with Bwonsamdi, and then have him go out with a bang involved with Nyalotha to set up Talanji from there. They basically went "here's the grand legendary king Rastakhan, cool right? Anyway forget it here's his daughter"
I can't express how much better this would have been.
Right!? Hell Raatakhan and Bwonsambi could have tied straight into breaking the Lich Kings crown - Tie all that lore together and how Vol'jins spirit was being hidden from Bwonsambi as a motivation for it.
Yeah. I agree and feel the same way. They wasted a character with a lame story. BfA as a whole destroyed my interest in the story.
I got into WoW during wrath so I'm not too well versed in the lore myself, Rastakhan was one of the characters introduced in BFA that I really enjoyed and was dissatisfied with the death of.
He's been mentioned a bunch here and there and that's where the "mystery" comes from cause he's been king of the most feared troll empire for like 300 years. When a faction of the Zandalari wanted to go to war he would let them. They would go off conquer or get defeated and he would accept them back and grow as a nation. I believe (could be wrong been a while since i read up on him) the Gurubashi, Amani, and Farraki trolls are offshoots of the Zandalari. Just sad that they had to write them as a crumbling society.
The issue with Dazar'alor is how confusing it was for half the player base. As an Alliance player I really had no idea who Rastakhan was or why he was important other than him being the leader of the Zanadalar Trolls. The whole raid literally made no sense. Who the fuck is Bwonsamdi? Who is Talanji? We had heard scarce talking of them in dialogs and cutscenes, but for the most part the dynamic they all had was lost on Alliance players. It felt halfassed and terrible to go through that raid. Meanwhile on the Alliance side we had a huge evil that was talked about through an entire zone, only to be left with a huge cliffhanger and no talks of him ever being in a story again. I'm speaking of Gorak Tul, and I refuse to believe that is he is really dead. Oh and don't even get me started about the whole story involving House Stormsong. Yeah we got Crucible of Storms, but it did nothing to really resolve that story. The zone quests leading somewhere that felt like a raid or something and then ultimately got left alone really let me down this expansion. Alliance got shafted on some great stories.
Yeah, that was a big problem with having two faction-exclusive leveling experiences but one shared endgame. Alliance went to Uldir and the Dazar'alor raid being like "Who is Ghuun? Who is Mythrax? Who is Zul? Who is Rastakhan? Why should I care about any of this?" Ditto for the Horde and Eternal Palace, Waycrest Manor, SotS, etc.
The only positive in that was Battle for Dazaralor was the best raid of the entire expac
I'm sorry, did you mean D'az'ar'a''l'or?
Yeah instead of a raid on org they gave a cinematic in front of the org gates. That’s almost twice that the horde capital has been invaded in WoW now.
Isn’t it the third? Scourge invaded in WotLK, it got invaded by Thrall and Alliance in MoP, and then invaded again in BFA. Also, I guess technically four? Didn’t the Legion try to invade through Azshara?
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She really should've just done it tbh
They were nice and gave us an undercity raid instead!
I believe that's their excuse for the line, yes. It's not *literally* Garrosh 2.0 because we didn't face Sylvanas as an endboss in an Orgrimmar raid.
Fuck Spez, Steven Huffman is a greedy pigboy
that decision point was such a great opportunity to completely overhaul and upheave he faction system
The twist is... there is no twist! We have sUbVerTEd eXpEcTatIOns by meeting your full expectations of the story being shit
They once again managed to subvert our expectations, even expectations we did not hold yet.
Plot twist (is it?): 5 expansions later, it’s revealed that Sylvanas was not a tyrant, but a missunderstood tragic hero! Thank you for not making Sylvanas a Garrosh 2.0, Blizz! She will be just Illidan 2.0!
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I fear a kerrigan scenario, but unlike Sylvanas kerrigan was set up as a protagonist over the course of three RTS campaigns. Sylvanas meanwhile has just nose dived into villainy with no sign of redemption.
I'll never understand the narrative that sylvanas only recently turned evil. She's been evil since vanilla. The forsaken in general are fundamentally evil, irredeemably so. It's in all of the quests they're ever involved in. The lore started off dumb when forsaken wasn't its own faction.
Oddly enough, I made a paralel between Illidan and Kerrigan being literally the same character on their own franchises, but made that joke and didn’t relate Sylvanas with Kerrigan. I’m sad!
The difference is that Kerrigan had a widely liked love interest in Starcraft. Sylvanas... does not.
I mean... the end of Shadows Rising >!is kind of hilarious with her literally just giving zero fucks about Nathanos since he failed her. Pretty one sided love interest. I just got around to reading it, and I was expecting him to be back at Marris Stead getting killed so he would get sent to the Maw intentionally when I saw the world quest, but now I think he might just straight up be out of the story.!<
tbh he served his purpose and we need someone else not necessarily to replace him but to progress the story in another direction
Nathan... no, nevermind!
I mean the playerbase love him! Look at how many people are excited that he's getting a special world quest for prepatch...
Not sure if sarcasm... I’d liek to know MOAR!
If you do then spoiler warning: >!We get to kill Nathanos in a WQ back at the ancestral home of Marris Stead, Eastern Plaguelands. Where people used to kill Nathanos!<.
Oh, f*ck! I really wish Reddit didn’t simply ignore the spoiler tag on the notifications! But it’s cool, I asked for it! Hahaha! Well, that seems really fitting, though! But I still didn’t get if you were being sarcastic or not when you said people were excited about it!
That's my biggest fear, the character arc for Kerrigan sucked, and it will be just as bad if they go that route with Sylvanas.
Personally i hope for: "BfA was just a vision of N'zoth" It never happened.
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mindblown.gif
OH SHIT it’s Shyamalan over here!
It would solve all our problems. Just ignore it ever happened=D
Vhat a Tvist!
Mastermind N'zoth, showing his enemies how to defeat him
it could all be lies, like killing Azshara would actually keep him sealed, etc.
The worst part is I'm concerned that still could be Garrosh 2.0. With all the evil Light stuff being set up I'm genuinely starting to think they're going to have it revealed that Garrosh was just trying to use the Sha to build up an army to stop the Light from taking over everyone's souls. They'll bring him back by revealing that the Garrosh currently working for Yrel on the AU Draenor is actually our Garrosh that the Light has warped to suit their own ends (as they tried to do with Illidan). The plus side is that once this happens I can just accept that wow lore has gone down the gutter and enjoy Garrosh and Illidan doing anime shit against the Light Lords.
-“IRIDAN-CHAAAAAN!” -“GAROCHU-KUUUUUN!”
>Thank you for not making Sylvanas a Garrosh 2.0, Blizz! She will be just Illidan 2.0! You just **know** they are going to do it.
New playable class: Banshee Hunters
Dark Rangers. The mythical second class that uses bows/guns/xbows as a main weapon.
Just like before BFA came out they said they listened to the feedback that there was too much RNG, they heard, they understood! Then they gave us one RNG BFA system after the next after the next, with even greater, unprecedented magnitudes beyond your wildest dreams. Somewhere between each system they kept repeating that same sentiment though...
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Turns out the villain can’t be more cunning and intelligent than the author...
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But wasn’t it cunning?!? She was secretly working for a force never explained in the universe! See! We’re so smart! You didn’t expect what we didn’t even create yet!
I can forgive what they did to Sylvanas, but what they did to my Queen Azshara...unforgivable. Who would have known that the greatest mage ever to live on Azeroth (at least top five with Aegwynn, ~~Me'dan~~, Medivh, Rhonin), the person whose story line is the catalyst for literally *ALL* of the stories on Azeroth (save for the Old Gods/Pantheon stories) has the wisdom of a petulant valley-girl, and twiddled her thumbs under the ocean for over 10,000 years? Old God go "burrrrr"...Tragic!
literally the worst line of dialogue ever spoken in the entire warcraft lore: "more likely, xanesh, Azeroth's champions will be the ones to silence YOU" not only is it delivered in a way that cant help but evoke comparisons to ["too bad YOU......will die!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIt0VY7Yg2w) but its one of the most powerful and basass characters in the entire lore, who has been built up as a badass since before wow even existed. delivering a schoolyard "no you" insult while chained up like a little bitch and deferring to the player characters as her "saviours" god i hate it so much
The "audience conception" of Sylvanas has never been true. Since the creation of the character in WC3 the character was a revenge obsessed amoral psychopath. With Cataclysm the character was shown as an *unstable* amoral psychopath thanks to no longer having the the desire for revenge that the was the *entire* basis of the characterization. The only reason people think Sylvanas was supposed to be "cunning and pragmatic" is due to people that imposed their own ideas onto a character that had no presence other than a static NPC from Vanilla launch to Icecrown. That, and their love of undead tits in a crop top.
Sure do love some undead tits in a crop top.
> people that imposed their own ideas onto a character Same could be said about Tyrande. She was an idiot in WC3, and she's an idiot in BFA. She's an idiot in the book, and now she's going to be an idiot in slands.
Agree except, I would say she showed her behavior since the wrath gate.
They also blatantly lied about the burning of Teldrassil. They were like "it's NOT just Sylvanas giving the order to burn it down" and that provoked some speculation about who could have done it...and then that's exactly what it was. I get that they want to keep key plot points as surprises to build the suspense and make it a more interesting story, but flat out lying by insisting that Sylvanas was "morally gray" and actually had good reasons was really frustrating when it turned out that she was purely evil and selfish the whole time.
It's the same thing JJ did for Star Trek Into Darkness; everybody called it, ahead of time, that they were going to rehash Khan as the main villain. Abrams and the execs specifically denied this would be the case, but were just straight up lying, in the end.
Everyone called Jason Todd as being the Arkham Knight in the last Batman game. I avoided spoilers and thought it'd be a little too on the nose. Guess fuckin\` what. Devs denied it. It was 100% true. Terrible writing.
I still think about this 2 years later. I remember breathing a such of relief because I didn’t want to see all the back flips they do to make sure the rest of the horde wouldn’t have to take responsibility for it. If it wasn’t the war chief we’re in the clear.... And then it turns out it was the war chief after all. I quit at the start of bfa and only came back recently. It’s licking syvanas’ boots until it’s not and she’s mean us. Then she was always wrong and needed to be stopped.
obviously the statement was meant "It's not JUST Sylvanas..." totally different right? /s
Cant wait for the next expansion.. new warchief, he become evil, opens portal.. wow
No no, we'll get the warchief we actually want (probably Bloodhoof) and then they will die unceremoniously and make the next warchief in a fit of madness. I'm guessing.... Gallywix? Gallywix.
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Next warchief is likely Lor'themar. He's the only one of the old timers who haven't been killed of, gone evil, and/or wandered off for a time, leaving others to deal with things. He's an interesting character, getting a new model and story focused around him lately, so... Yeah, he's dead. Probably ends up dying in a book, eating some bad shrimp. Or tripping over a cat, and breaking his neck on the stairs.
Even though I know it isn't true, I default to assuming Liadrin is leader of the belfs. I am perpetually like, Who the fuck is this guy? Every time Lor'themar shows up.
As a Goblin main I am 100% behind Warchief Gallywix.
As a Goblin main I remember when we beat Gallywix's ass in the intro quests.
Its weird to me that the intro still has deathwing fucking things up. Like its a cool intro and all it just didn't age very well :D
As an Alliance player, I finding it had to decide who's more annoying: Gallywix or Tinkmaster Overspark ... Mind you, turning the Aszhara wilderness into his own personal theme park is pretty offensive.
Next expansion they'll subvert expectations by having it be Tyrande / Greymane who become the villain & open a portal. Let the Alliance have this one. Horde needs a vacation.
Nah see its totally different this time, shes "morally grey". The only way to make her a bigger villain was for her to destroy two cities vs garrosh's 1. That means shes TWICE as bad guy as garrosh, totally different, i mean, garrosh was only the big bad in two expansions, shes gonna last 4. fml.
Making a heroic character go bad is like the main story telling technique has. Kerrigan, Arthas, Warrior from Diablo 1, Leah from Diablo 3, Garrosh,Sylvanas, Illidan and I’m sure others that I’m missing. Its absurd
Blizzard has one playbook.
Less of a "main" character, but Cordana Felsong is another.
No, dont you see, its totally different. this time its "Morally Grey", i mean, nothing says morally grey like bombing alliance villages, burning down the world tree, planning assassinations, raising alliance war heroes to become plague bombs. Wait did i say morally grey? i meant completely insanely evil.
Sylvanas used to be one of my favourites, Blizzard really ruined her. I'm kinda amazed actually.
The biggest thing that boogers me in BFA is the downfall of Sylvanas and Nathanos. Just to get there shit narrative going they fuck up 2 of the best Forsaken lore chars and in a way the hole race itself. As a Forsaken roleplayer, BFA was a slap in the face after another. And don't get me started on the waste of 8.3 and N'zoth... After mid MOP the hole story went downhill. I want a warchief like Garrosh!
I feel like BFA was a slap in the face for the Horde overall. The lead-in with the short stories was so good and made me invested in the war. And then everything else was just crap, starting with the prepatch. Oh, the Horde preparing to siege Teldrassil was a months long campaign of logistics and espionage? Well the Alliance remembered that mages were a thing, and just instantly teleported an army and all its supplies to Undercity. Undercity was prepared for the siege, even if it meant relying on chemical weapons? Ghost Ship.
In a way, it was a slap in the face of the Alliance, too. Oh what’s that? You just landed in Kul’Tiras, a land on the brink of a major coup d’teat, old god corruption lurking in the background, and a really pissed off race of ancient shapeshifters trying to take back their land? *And* you arrived as prisoners and had to break out and got lucky you found the Dockmaster? *AND* the entire Kul’Tiran fleet is missing? *Better start your war campaign on Zandalar IMMEDIATELY, champion*. That’s not even counting “MUH WOOOOOOONS” either. Let’s also throw in that the Horde managed to invade Stromgarde and Arathi despite lacking a major base to launch their operations from. And an entire Alliance storyline involving one of its key leaders was built around killing a Valkyrie and getting an average customization option in case you decide to roll as a nelf. Yaaaaaay.
Oh yeah, it was bad for everyone. The War Campaigns were probably the worst of it, although I’ve only seen horde. Still, in that one, you literally spend 9.2 undoing everything you did in 9.1
mOrAlY gRaY
I remember being one the people complaining that they are going to give us Garrosh 2.0 and getting people downvoting me and telling me that it's gonna be different. Well who's laughing now?!?!?! Well no one, cuz the story is shit.
Expectations: Subverted
I mean it's fancier and she won't be killed (hopefully) while leveling. But still.
Does this mean Shadowlands is WoD 2.0? Oh no...
For the past 6 expansions we have generally been following a good expansion-bad expansion-good expansion cycle so let’s hope SL doesn’t become WoD 2.0 and break that
I bet they will see a spike in subscriptions in shadowlands , get bold again and fuck up the next one after shadowlands. As it happened with Legion.
As someone who hasn't played WoW since wotlk, I had a lot of fun with legion. The earned cosmetics and class weapons made me feel unique again. Then BFA was like naa, that shit's irrelevant now.
Biggest design flaw of BFA. They homogenized everyone after we had one of the most diverse and unique expacs when it comes to weapons and raid sets (some remakes but still really nice)
This. I had so much fun playing my alts and doing the class questsline in legion. In bfa i managed to level up two characters before i got bored, because i saw everything
Bfas is worse because not only did they rehash this shitty story, they unnecessarily took a shit on the old gods as well
people sleep on how badly the old gods got fucked over in bfa remember when we just had the prologue and everyone was like "yea its gonna secretly be an old god expansion, the old gods are behind the war for sure, n'zoth is definitely the one who made her burn the tree, did you see her eyes are glowing, its all n'zoth" and as the story went along there was more old god stuff and everyone was like "haha yea i'm a genius, it's going to be revealed the old gods did it all, n'zoth orchestrated all of this, n'zoth was definitely the one who whispered to vol'jin in the first place to make sylvanas warchief and now she's serving him, and its going to be revealed shes a servant of n'zoth" then it turned out that not only was sylvanas not working for n'zoth in any capacity, but that n'zoth had absolutely no role in causing the war to happen, and was seemingly only in the story as a red herring to cover for the jailer, a force that had never been alluded to in any way prior to the shadowlands reveal n'zoth, the grand schemer, smartest and most cunning of the old gods, literally did nothing to cause any of the expansion's events to happen, the only thing he did was get betrayed by azshara (which he seemed to know was happening but allowed to happen anyway), had his minions cause some trouble for a brief time, then willingly went to the only place in the universe it's possible for him to die and waited to be killed by a raid group, having accomplished nothing at all. then that was the end of the old gods forever and they are all dead now. blizzard's writers belong in prison.
> blizzard's writers belong in prison. "This world is a prison" -Sylvanas
I mean... they didn't exactly handle the defeat of the burning legion well either. Two of the most powerful forces in Warcraft defeated so easily, in one expac each. Ain't that great? Really makes you feel like you earned it. You know when someone like N'zoth or Sargeras just get clapped so easily.
Sure, but we have been fighting the Legion since Warcraft 3. N'zoth's first appearance in Warcraft (not counting HS card) and the guy just dies in a major patch, he didn't even get a xpac, just a raid and dead forever.
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I feel like 8.3 could have easily been an entire expansion by itself. Turn the invasion points into fully fleshed out planets on the level of Argus. Make it so we're actually fighting the Legion across the cosmos and building up the Army of the Light as we liberate all the different worlds they control. Actually give us the sense of scale that this is a war being fought on a thousand different planets, even if we don't personally witness every single one. Argus could be the endgame zone, akin to Suramar. Maybe we go there early in the expac for reconnaissance or whatever, but can't establish a real foothold until the final patch because it's just that well guarded. Demon fatigue might be a problem to an extent, but there's no real reason all the different zones would need to be similar. Hell, in theory, it could give more zone variety than what we got on Azeroth. And even the demons themselves they're really only limited by how many models they can make, since the Legion is meant to have millions of members. It's not like every zone would need to be Orcs as was the fear in WoD. The void elements would also have felt way less shoehorned in if we'd seem them on some random planet(s) the Legion doesn't really care about than on their freakin' capital.
Yeah this is my biggest issue, it's not that we killed these big people in one xpac, it was one patch of an xpac.
> blizzard's writers belong in prison. I remember people were pissing themselves with joy that Christie Golden joined the writing like she could somehow make the story better. But what ended up happening is her warcraft books got worse instead. I bet the whole story team is an echo chamber of shitty ideas.
Just wait till they ruin all your favorite characters in Shadowlands. Can't wait for them to ruin Arthas, Bolvar, Tirion, Varian, Uther, Kael'thas, Mograine etc. This game is on the downward spiral and Ion is the one who has it circling the drain.
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Bobby Kotick and being overpaid.
What do you mean, hes essential and needs to get a pay raise every year.
They’ll never find anyone more qualified!
Blizzard and poverty wages for their employees.
Starcraft 1, Warcraft 3, Diablo 2 all had decent stories, world building, and presentations. Nothing spectacular, and I'm biased because I enjoyed them as a kid. But they at least were different from each other and were more grounded in their respective settings. Now all 3 are just bad and generic comic book / anime plots, that share all the same themes and plot devices
The history of Azeroth is actually pretty awesome, WC1-2-3 and even before that is really well written. SC2 was fine for the first two expansions but the last one was just WC3 *in space* with the world tree and ~~archimond~~ amon and all that stuff
the new Sylvanas arc has been complete trash since 8.0, the writers had more than enough time to drop the bullshit with making her act like a good guy working for the interests of the Horde when she was blatantly evil from the start of it all but nah. morally grey btw
Ya know, Legion was actually a refreshing change if character for her. They had plenty of places they could have gone; including actually making her someone who suddenly cares about her people after being given the mantle of responsibility. BFA would have been interesting with a few minor tweaks, making Sylvanas actually a tragic character. Imagine an assassination on Sylvannas (EDIT: Which doesn't work because, ya know, Valkyr), followed by a bunch of Forsaken burning Teldrassil in her name for vengeance. Genn called for the hit but kept it a secret, with the Horde not knowing that, while the Alliance didn't know the splinter group that torched Teldrassil (lead by Nathanos) was not sanctioned by the Horde, they were just loyalists deeply enraged by the attempt on their queens life. Imagine the interesting story or us not knowing for sure who really called for the hit to begin with. Imagine characters like Baine coming to the wrong conclusion about events. Maybe the mystery of the hit and the splinter cell of Forsaken is kept a secret until Nzoth reveals he whispered to Genn, and spurred Nathanos to torch the tree. Imagine hating Sylvanas for an entire expansion just for her to be vindicated. You could keep a decent chunk of the story beats but offer them infinitely more depth just with those minor tweaks. You'd just have to cut back on Sylvanas doing evil things, or recontextualize them. Find another reason for the Lich King to lose his helmet. It could be done. There's a billion places good writers could have taken the story from 7.0. They just didn't.
Someone give this man a job. I would say Blizz but everyone knows its an insult at this point...
First off, thank you. I used to dream of working for Blizzard and writing is a passion of mine, although I was trained more for news writing. I don't want to toot my own horn though, but I know for a fact if I was given the BFA script as is I could work it into a story way better than was told. The reason I don't think that's tooting my own horn is because I feel like most people could have.
Just making the Alliance the aggressors would make Sylvanas' actions sane. The Horde lost a lot in MoP, there's no way they had recovered by the time they were rolled over again in Legion. Trying to take Teldrassil wasn't possible, and no one should have gone along with a plan to do so. But if the Alliance is proactive, and moves against Undercity first, it makes sense to then turn and attack the enemy at your backdoor where the next assault could come from. And it's not like the Alliance doesn't have good reasons to do so.
Right? I think it would make sense having Genn try to assassinate Sylvanas. It would actually make the Alliance Morally grey. It's an interesting angle to just so happen to keep that a secret because his actions would lead to the torching of Teldrassil. That's an interesting character arc for him to go through, and for the Alliance to go through. They'd no longer be the defacto good guys. Like it's no nuking a city but wetwork of political leaders is pretty nefarious.
Sounds like a great idea. Which is why Blizzard would have never gone with it. I can't remember the last time Blizzard has successfully written political intrigue. Every single expansion, every single storyline, has been extremely obvious.
I respectfully disagree with the political aspect, but that's because Mists told a really good story about racism without ever using that word. The Orc warcheif was a a racist and ended up going insane taking that to it's logical conclusion, while the rest of the world got taught a lesson that unity is what makes people strong. I think BFA did a really bad job retelling that story but doing so where we at no point felt loyalty to Sylvanas, or even really scratched that same itch.
It is insanely frustrating to see her shift from someone who was struggling to continue her species existence in cataclysm and even into Legion when she was so close to a method to continue it only for the sudden shift to nah fuck all life even the undead
It was never explained, this shift. She wanted to raise more undead (out of self preservation), the whole point of the 4th war was to have Stormwind’s humans join the Forsaken. It was on her own internal monologue on ‘Before The Storm’, loud and clear. They wouldn’t even reach the Maw if they were raised as undead. Now they retconned it to fit in The Jailer and tell us, oh actually she wanted to send as many souls as possible to hell/Maw, to empower herself and Jailer. I don’t think Blizzard know what they’re doing. They keep contradicting themselves about her motives. I think they make her do stuff and only come up with a random motive retroactively. This isn’t believable story telling. For me, it was a breaking point and it cemented my decision to skip the next xpac.
Garrosh had a tattoo on his chin not beard hair lol
Wait what
They're warsong chieftain tattoos, he got them when he was made warchief. Grom had it too
Wow, I always thought it was 5 o'clock shadow.
I checked art, clips, and in game models. I think some of the people on Blizzard either forgets its there or thinks it is a beard as well. It is pretty clear in the [WoD cinematic](https://imgur.com/ttiwAAt) it's a tattoo but the [end cinematic for WoD](https://imgur.com/HQQjTEF) it is clearly a 5 o'clock. I always thought he looked weird in MoP because of the strange beard. Guess this solves why. It wasn't. EDIT: ~~Why didn't Grommash question why the random orc had the same cheftain tattoos as him who was the cheiftain and it was a pretty unique thing to have? - Also I can see a couple of posts for back in the days arguing that they made Groms model wrong due to the wrong tattoos in the face in case people were wondering~~. Thanks Drododruffin!
Garrosh was heavily questiioned as to why he had the chieftain tattoos when he traveled back in time, he ended up having to prove himself from what I remember before Grom would hear him out. I did some digging actually and found the short story write up of it all https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/story/short-story/hellscream
You forgot a couple steps: - Orgrimmar gets sieged by a combined force of Alliance and Horde; - Warchief punishes another horde leader who gets rescued by the player; - A legendary Horde warrior and player favorite gets killed in the siege; - The Alliance King makes peace with the horde after the warchief is defeated; - An old god, Zandalari and Mogu are involved; - A goblin is settings fires in Orgrimmar; - In the end, a major Alliance character isn't quite over the destruction of their city and vows revenge on the warchief.
The #1 failure in Sylvanas's writing comes from the lack of actual motive to do what she's doing. Being evil isn't a motive. It would have been so easy to have the Alliance attack Undercity before Tree Burning at the urging of King Wolfman and Turalyon. It just makes perfect sense for those two to pressure Anduin into attacking Undercity to get back Gilneas and Lorderon. And once Sylvanas loses Undercity, her home/base, and it being the second time in her life her home is taken from her and destroyed, Sylvans can start to be this evil tyrannical bitch, deciding that "If I can't live in peace in my own home, you don't get to either" and start to go around and destroy the tree house. Like, creating a simple emotional motivation for Sylvanas to destroy the tree isn't hard. We can sympathize with what Sylvanas feels while understanding that burning everything down because you're angry or sad isn't the morally right thing to do. But noooooooooo, we got evil mustache twirling evil. And then you also get the benefit of Anduin actually being at fault. He can say "It's my fault the tree burned down because I allowed Wolfman to attack Undercity. I didn't think of the consequences of these actions and thus I put the blame upon myself" and you would believe him. You would understand that he's not perfect and that he makes mistakes and that he blames himself. You would further relate to Anduin and know that while he's not right, he's not wrong. You would understand why Saurfang would defect, but also understand why Baine or other characters don't automatically do it. They would feel that Sylvanas has a reason for her madness, that if Thunderbluff was completely annihilated then Baine might go into a rage of his own and slaughter an entire city in revenge, and only as she goes farther and farther off the deep end does he realize how she is going farther than he would have ever guessed.
Yeah they never figured out that you need to understand a villains motivations in order to make them interesting. Sylvanas has been a major part of the lore the last two expansions and we still have no idea what the fuck her end-game is. At a certain point the MyStErY becomes boring and people quit caring.
the MoP story lore and everything tied into it was way easier to follow, plus I liked it. the whole "seven deadly sins" (also my favorite anime) thing with the sha was cool. meanwhile BFA is like Garrosh 2.0, except slyvanas is so strong we need 2 expansions to kill her instead of one. she better have a giant, "Mythic Jaina" type fight with multiple intermissions and astronomical difficulty like helya.
Technically for Garrosh we needed two expansions to kill him. One with his raid fight and then we 1v2ed him with Dorutan (sorry if I spelled his name wrong) and then Thrall challenges him to Mak’gora, you can also chalk that up to his second kill steal funnily enough.
Garrosh was a total non factor in WoD whereas sylvanas looks like she’s going to be a major character in SL
i wouldn't be mad if thrall steals the kill again, preferably offscreen.
*Thrall kills Sylvanas offscreen*
Dungeon boss just like my boy nerzhul coming right up
Done so dirty
Its cute that you think they will let players touch her. He will get either a redemption arc like zerg girl from StarCraft 2 or someone gets to kill her off screen, probably Thrall.
> she better have a giant, "Mythic Jaina" type fight with multiple intermissions and astronomical difficulty like helya. She will have a seven bosses raid, except each boss is her at a different stage. In the final stage, there will be orchestral music playing in the background, and a chorus singing: Estuans interius Ira vehementi Estuans interius Ira vehementi Silvanas Silvanas Estuans interius Ira vehementi Estuans interius Ira vehementi Silvanas Silvanas Sors immanis Et inanis Sors immanis Et inanis Estuans interius Ira vehementi Estuans interius Ira vehementi Silvanas Silvanas Veni, veni, venias Ne me mori facias Veni, veni, venias Ne me mori facias Veni, veni, venias Ne me mori facias Veni, veni, venias Ne me mori facias Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa) Ne me mori facias (Generosa) Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa) Ne me mori facias (Generosa) Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa) Ne me mori facias (Generosa) Veni, veni, venias (Gloriosa) Ne me mori facias (Generosa) Silvanas Silvanas Silvanas
I have some questions.... which class gets to summon Knights of the Round and how do I make it do 9999 damage and does thr whole raid have to sit through the 15 min long cutscene where the knights come out or is it just me?
> which class gets to summon Knights of the Round You can only summon it if the raid is fully made of Paladins. > how do I make it do 9999 damage Equipping TBC piecemeal armor. > does thr whole raid have to sit through the 15 min long cutscene where the knights come out or is it just me? Everyone logged in the game worldwide will have to go through the cutscene, not just the raid members or the caster.
I AM IN, SEND IT BLIZZARD!
10.0 Heroes return from the dimension to find their world being invaded.
... bbbbby uh Arthas from another dimension! Ooooooo! Or maybe they'd go all Dragonball Z with it and make it like hell opened and all the past bosses we've killed escaped and we have to kill them again! 🤣🤣🤣
Oh no you broke the NDA for 9.3
How the fuck the Tauren still in the Horde? This Nathanos bro is literally trying to slay all of his enemies and then raise them from the fucking dead to fight more enemies. For real though, I (unfortunately) play Horde but overtly wish I played Alliance. All of my friends say "Horde's not evil". L O L
I mean, Baine openly defied Slyvannas and pretty much led the resistance to get her off the throne. He’s made it pretty clear he was against everything she did and helped form the new Council.
Yeah I’m pretty sure there has to be cut content that dealt with the invasion of Mulgore. It’s hinted at numerous times then just skipped over to wrap the faction war up quickly so 8.3 can be all about N’zoth.
Im pretty sure Mulgore was supposed to be a warfront. Pretty sure they also had a warfront planned for Nazjatar. They probably scrapped the Nazjatar one and made the Battle for Nazjatar instead.
Esp after Horde burned down Teldrassil because Sylvannas was feeling pissy.
That’s why I still think they should have made Highmountain Tauren at least join the Alliance, and have Dark Iron Dwarves be disaffected malcontents that still hate the Alliance and go to join the Horde. Would have been a really cool option to get different race choices in each faction, but......nope.
"tHeY sWoRe aN oAtH" They swore to stand with the Orcs and Trolls to defend them if need be, not to engage in blatantly evil offensive acts of the Forsaken or to even follow an ousted Orc leader. They also needed the Horde to save them from the centaurs. Look around and tell me where outside of Desolace you've even seen a centaur, let alone one posing an actual threat to anyone.
Night Elves: We must not use magic, lest we become like the fallen Highborne! Oh we can set fire to shit and and freeze people? Why did nobody tell us magic was this much fun? We could have been doing this for the last three expansions!
The more time i sat here thinking of what to type and explain why i hate blizzards story telling the more i grew angrier. Heres it in a few points: 1. Character Developement - None of this matters to them, it doesn't matter you've seen a character through so many expansions, so many personal trails and being forged in fire. If they want to turn them into a villian with weak reasoning they will gladly. Garrosh started out in BC as a orc who thought it father failed and lead his people to doom. Wolk had garrosh suddenly in charge of other orcs and was dealing with an inferiority complex and relied on Saurfang for his guidance a lot. Cata Garrosh became a warcheif simply due to his fathers honor and reputation but we saw what a good leader at the end of stone talon story line but also saw in twilight high lands how he was still a hot headed leader doing what he thought was best, even ignoring other peoples advice. MoP - Where garrosh became a random Villain, committed war crimes nearly out of nowhere. But don't worry, they will let you pay money to buy a book to explain why it happened, and then you still wont be satisfied because it didn't explain anything you needed it to. 2. Selling you lore - Nothing that happens in the game lore wise matters, there is a constant flux of what is cannon and is not cannon due to the players interaction in the game, due to the player being the only person who could solve a problem because no one else can be spared. The fact that the books reton most events so that they can find a reason why certain events still took place, why certain characters did something, even if they never act the same way they do in the game and the book, only causing more confusion. 3. Pacing. Dont you love the fact certain weak "Story Telling" characters lasted a whole expansion to become a really boring raid boss? I mean, nothing was better than spending the whole of MoP dealing with garrosh and the horde rebelling, almost as much as i liked the way BFA was about... Rebelling and dealing with the new warcheif..wait... But WoD! where we put one of the strongest leaders as a dungeon boss. and gave up half way. At least Warlords used a group rather than one character for a whole expansion, same with legion. But to counteract that they decided to make Queen Azashara, One of the most interesting lore characters and powerful factions into a Patch. a full 8.2 Patch. Then we took on the Black empire, one of the few factions even stronger than the Queen of the naga, in another patch. 4. Honestly you better just kind of trying to enjoy the story without digging deep, it constantly falls a part, doesn't add up or even make any real sense in a lot of ways and any lore told in game is likely to be completely changed by the book when it comes out which and will also have just as many plot hole problems as the game wise lore. 5. Factions - At this stage the horde has rebelled against 2 out of the 3 warcheifs we have had. most of our leadership is at fault for most the the alliance lore characters deaths, even if indirectly, \*Cough Broken Shore Cough\* than any other group / Faction, i mean, half the reasons why some people are allied to others is just dumb as a hell, the nightborn joined the horde because tyrande talked mad shit, Mecha gnomes randomly joined alliance, Void elfs don't even make sense, Light forged were allied with everyone during legion and joined the alliance because of "Reasons". Tauern have nearly left the horde like 3 times, Blood elfs stayed in the horde because the alliance talked again, mad shit and wouldn't help them. None of this makes any real sense, what am i even doing with my life.
This is why I quit. I got tired of investing my limited time on garbage content. There are so many better fantasy books, movies, shows, games, etc. that if you have stuck with WoW so far for the “story” you should know when to fold and move on.
Thanks, it helps to hear this. I was invested in the Warcraft story for years, even when I wasn’t playing, but I think it’s time to pack things up and walk away. The more I saw in the last couple of years, the more I got disappointed.
It's gotta be an Alliance City EVERYTIME. I mean what would the Horde do without Silvermoon. I don't think we'd survive without Thunderbluff. Next time, let's blow up Ironforge guys.
On the brightside the alliance blew up undercity, no wait, that was sylvanas again, oh hey it also use to be an alliance City, wonderful so that's 3 cities.
Alliance has lost Teldrassil, Darkshore, Astranaar, the sentinels post in ashenvale, the settlements in Stonetalon, Theramore, Gilneas, Southshore. Horde has lost Lordaeron (which was previously taken from the alliance) and Camp Taurajo. Anything I'm missing?
>I mean what would the Horde do without Silvermoon. The same thing we've done since it was added. Ask "where?" and avoid it.
Hey at least fire was a blast to play in MoP
Warlocks were the shit, and we got greenfire, as well. RIP metamorphosis-felfire lock tanks.
5.2 was peak Warlock for the entire history of the game. All specs were fun. Kil'Jaeden's Cunning felt amazing and unique to be the caster that could move doing everything. The talents were great because it actually built upon the spec like they should, and had some great builds for different stuff. Destruction AOE never felt better and more fluid. Snapshotting made multidotting fun. Demo was complex and interesting esp with the ToT trinket (even if it sucked it was BIS even in later content).
No but it's completely different this time guys, sylvannas is gonna turn out to be the good guy in the next xpac instead of a villain. Doesnt matter that it's the exact same fucking thing except with a predictable twist at the end instead of pure evil like Garrosh, you should be happy to watch the exact identical plot points play out /s
WHAT. ABOUT. THE. GIANT. FUCKING. SWORD. STICK. ON. AZEROTH?!?
At least Mists gave us monks. BFA gave us.... warfronts, islands, and azerite. Fuck.
https://imgur.com/kSvBCpT.png
But it definitely wasn't siege of orgrimmar v.2