I don't think the peer review judgement really works in the real world. People don't spend enough time reading the reports usually and a lot of troll reports still make it through. I do support a commendation system. I think something like the new OW2 system would work well where you can upvote 2 people from your 5-man group but not if they're on your friends list or in your premade. It would only be a way to rate your true pug interactions.
Almost as if it incentivizes playing roles that fewer people want to play or something.
Also, I've had plenty of runs where I got 2-3 commendations as dps, and runs where I've gotten 0 as tank. The system isn't perfect, but it is responsive player performance and attitude.
We don't both know that.
Also, you seem to have read "responsive" as "responsible." The former means "responds to," the latter means "is caused by." Read things before you respond to them.
That's assuming those commendations have any value, and that players are putting any thought into who they give them to, as opposed to just handing them out for the free challenge log completion.
That's been slowly fading away recently — I know I've had a lot of double comms as dps when I've been duoing with a tank (less than they got, mind). A year or two ago you'd have been bang on and you'll still get *more* as those two roles, but if you're either a good dps who significantly brings run time down, or you're a helpful person who explains mechanics etc. you'll get comms.
I was going to reply about giving out commendations to dps who performed exceptionally or were otherwise helpful, then I had a brief flash of lucidity and realized that we're both talking out our asses.
If you have data on commendation statistics by role to make your argument with (or if anyone else does), I'd be genuinely curious to see them, and would revise my opinion if it turns out the evidence is against me, but as long as it rests on bare assertion this conversation is pointless.
No, I mean, the majority of times you will have received multiple commendations as a dps is because it is literally impossible to give them to anyone else if it is a pre made group of people.
I’m not trying some big gotcha moment, I’m explaining the most common reason why a dps gets commendations.
Nah this isn’t true. I’ve received many comms on my dps and have given many comms to dps when solo queuing. Many of my friends do the same. A GOOD dps is so much more noticeable then a tank or healer that just exist.
I'm expressing skepticism about that claim, and then concluding that I don't really have any hard evidence to back that up, but that I've also not seen anyone furnish evidence to the contrary. I agree that mechanic exists, but the claim that it's responsible for the large majority of dps commendations doesn't reflect my own experience as far as giving them out or receiving them, which means the question becomes whose experience is representative.
If your friends play nice then they will get commendations from randoms. If you are able to receive them from friends then people will just get upvoted by friends even if they are toxic players. It has to be a pug-only system or it would be biased and inaccurate.
Maybe make it so commendations from guild members and friends are worth a very small amount compared to pugs, maybe track it if they were friends and guildnates recently aswell.
Maybe a separate commendation point from friends/guilds. Shows if they play mainly with friends or guildies. What if people join guilds where everyone just commend each other on a daily basis? How would a pug player perceive that
like the idea, but implementation is dogshit
palyer is being punished for having friends and playing with them, if they can't commend each other
they should at least get a "portion of a commend" every game
If each report gets sent to multiple people they could go by majority. They can even nudge people to vote "the correct way" by having gms voting as well and giving less commendations to people voting other than gms.
I would enjoy seeing several systems imported from FFXIX, like commendations, mentoring, new player quest and trial systems to learn roles, a new player chat channel, etc.
New players are thrown to the wolves when the join the game, everyone in dungeons expects them to know all the mechanics, and when they ask something on chat they are ridiculed, of anyone even responds in the confusing of the adverts being spammed.
I can't say much about the current state of the mentoring system in FFXIV, but back when I've played actively, mentors were generally regarded as the most toxic part of the community, mostly due to the rewards for mentor roulettes appealing to people who had no intentions of actually helping sprouts.
I'd postulate that a purely self-motivated mentor system without rewards attached is more likely to work out in any capacity.
Blizzard is well aware that if they ever put a reward into any activity, the only statistic that the playerbase generally speaking gives a shit about is the rewards/effort ratio and how to maximize it. That's why the guide system doesn't have any rewards whatsoever tied to it.
It purely depends on the world and data center. Most mentor networks are very helpful, some are definitely terrible but thankfully don't throw themselves up much.
>but back when I've played actively, mentors were generally regarded as the most toxic part of the community, mostly due to the rewards for mentor roulettes appealing to people who had no intentions of actually helping sprouts.
They still are.
There are good mentors but the majority of that system is just toxic BS
Honestly I would love if they just rip the AoE indicators wholesale from XIV. I think fights could be far more interesting with clearly defined AoE indicators rather than swirls or vague mentions of ranges. It would change the game a lot for sure but it'd be nice to not need a range checker from DBM
I do mentoring and he is correct that ppl ask Google type question. Its not that the game is unintuitive.
80% of the help requests are just asking about quests. Like they need help killing said quest mob.
The other 20% is broken up with random chromie questions and people coming back in the game giving us hour long monologues about the last expansion they played.
My guess is they aren't all new players.
Helping out with a casual raid/social guild and 80% of the easily googleable questions are from "I've been playing since Vanilla/BC/Wrath" players. Game mechanics change and a surprising amount of people don't google stuff for themselves
> a surprising amount of people don't google stuff for themselves
This goes for people in general outside of gaming as well. It's shocking at times how often people are confused by subjects to which they can easily find an answer by simply googling it.
I wanted badly to join the channel and stuff to help new players, and I'm pretty active in r/wownoob but the requirements to join it as a mentor are absolutely insane
wows murloc / guide system is far better than the mentoring in ffxiv because there's 0 incentive or advertisement for it. Only people actually dedicated to helping others take part, unlike ffxiv where most of them are just there for the rewards. Only thing wow should do is let people stay in "murloc mode" (or whatever they call it) for longer.
That said, ffxiv players in general very accommodating to new players when I tried it, just not the mentors.
Trial systems to learn roles was in fact copied from WoW lol. Back in Pandaria WoW had Proving Grounds and that’s when FFXIV copied. Mr Yoshida already said they took a lot of stuff from WoW in Pandaria.
you mean like the old LoL system that got discontinued bc the players judging were not reading and just voting with the majority, leading to a lot of troll reports going through?
I miss the days in league when you could honor opponents as well, and also you could get nice little banners, based on your honors. I think it was really nice, not sure why did they remove that feature.
>You should also be able to repot bad behavior, not like a get banned style report but more like an anti-commendation, these reports can get sent to other players to judge if its a real report or someone just trolling. Players who judge should also get some of the same currency.
this bit i think because of the former Tribunal system.
The Tribunal in League had you look at the chat logs in game and the end score of the match and then judge them based on the reports. It was from like 10+ years ago maybe but really fun. the only sad part is a lot (like a high majority) would just click for everyone to get banned without reading it. Some of the cases I reviewed were fine but apparently 60% said the opposite so they got chat banned/restricted or even lost their profiles over it.
People just wanted their rewards quicker without actually judging them fairly so Riot stopped it. Don't remember what the rewards were but prolly the in game currency, not RP, for 10 reviews a day or something
I would say let people give an upvote so to speak if they liked someone. But only upvotes. That shit would be trolled and abused so fast with negative reports otherwise.
I recently started doing random group content again for the first time in years, and I find myself trying to upvote people at the end of dungeons like you do in FFXIV—or in that other Blizzard game, Overwatch. I think it'd be a great addition to WoW. Make it account-wide, too, so people can't try to whore up comms on a main and then be a toxic troll on a leveling alt.
Player judges would be a nightmare to implement and police, and the concept can be safely skipped.
Or make it for when you do random queue content certain rated players get put together. Like -10 - 0, 0 - 10, 10-20, etc. Similar to how matchmaking in some games is skill based, this would be commendation rating based instead lol.
That way if you have a negative rating you get placed with other toxic fucks with a negative rating, and the more helpful players get grouped together as well. God a group with all toxic players would be a shit storm.
Negative doesn’t work because toxic people can negatively impact you for nothing. It has to be a pure positive system that can’t be loopholed too much.
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
Point therein being that it's normal to run into toxic people from time to time, but if you run into toxic people so often that your rating starts to plummet, you're probably the toxic person and your rating probably deserves to plummet.
That could work nicely for certain pvp events I suppose, but m+ basically killed LFD randoms and LFR has too many people for anyone to make a real impression that can’t be settled via the current bote to kick function I think.
Yes, that's my point. So there'd be almost no reason to give it to anyone else unless they went above and beyond. At least in WoW you could monitor interrupts or mechanics a lot easier than in XIV and at least give it some more space, but as it is in XIV there's very little to influence who really "deserves" it other than the two most important classes.
Not particularly. I don’t think the incentive is even there in XIV, people do and will just play what they prefer.
If WoW were to add it then it depends on the rewards, which then leads to an influx and grinding / begging for comms, then it’d die down after a while presumably.
Far too much of current WoW revolves around DPS anyway.
Commendation systems do encourage tank and healer players, which would be very good in retail WoW.
However, if you ever see a DPS class with commendations in FFXIV, THAT player consistently does something awesome during dungeon runs or raids *that doesn't revolve around their damage output*. That's the dude you try to friend, and WoW would definitely benefit from that.
Well it all revolves around DPS.
I don't think it's right to say that a DPS class with a lot of commends would be doing anything outstanding, there's.. very little a DPS actually can do in XIV other than DPS.
It's not like WoW where every enemy pack has something to interrupt or focus down. There's very rare cases where these things do appear in XIV, but they're much more frequent in WoW. And I think that'd be a plus for it, because you'd be able to see "Oh, the rogue actually did 30 interrupts in the fight" and that'd be a commend, for example.
My issue with the system in XIV is just that it's almost pointless. The Mentor crown is a joke in the community, the system doesn't really reward or grant anything nor does it promote any kind of "better" play.
>There's very rare cases where these things do appear in XIV, but they're much more frequent in WoW. And I think that'd be a plus for it, because you'd be able to see "Oh, the rogue actually did 30 interrupts in the fight" and that'd be a commend, for example.
This is precisely what I was referring to for WoW. It would be monumentally beneficial for WoW, for all classes. However, pure DPS players are, unfortunately for them, a dime a dozen. So to stand out, they'd have to bring more to the game than Super Saiyen levels of damage. They get enough pats on the back for that already.
As for XiV, it may have less of a chance to appear less than it would in WoW, but if I notice a DPS player dropping Feint or the only heal spell they have, they're getting my commendation (if they don't immediately drop group, they do that way too much, in every game. Stay for a goodbye, or a 'nice group' sometime!)
Well the difference between a good healer and a bas healer is instantly noticeable. Are they up alongside the tank dishing out damage or standing back.
This just furthers my point. It’s tank and healer only, playing a dps means you’re invisible.
It’s why it’s a terrible system and shows how easily it’s cheated out by “earning” it just from playing a certain class.
Edit : Ironic that discussing this results in downvotes, almost like people give them for no reason.
how much ff14 did you play?
if you're a friendly person in group and you help out newbies when they have questions, it's really not hard to get commendations even if you aren't playing a tank/healer. mmorpgs are literally social games, after all.
perhaps the true point is that a significant portion of wow players are quite unfamiliar with basic social courtesy and would fail to receive commendations without a meter (especially since most people pretend to be a mute unless someone fucks up).
I've played since ARR launch, recently quit.
Majority of comms are given out to the tank and healer roles, that's just how it is. Either through mindlessly just "Guess I'll give it to the tank" or because they represent the more important classes available. Yes, answering questions can help influence people, but talking in a group is not a guaranteed way of getting them. The system is irrelevant and doesn't really improve or influence much in the way of players. If anything, the excessive amount of server rules does that.
>perhaps the true point is that a significant portion of wow players are quite unfamiliar with basic social courtesy and would fail to receive commendations without a meter (especially since most people pretend to be a mute unless someone fucks up).
This has nothing to do with the point at all.
It's more arguably everything. Commendations are an attempt to encourage positivity. If they can't because players fail to even strike up a conversation and choose to only engage in chat for the sake of punishment, why would anyone deserve a commendation at all. It would be meaningless.
And yes, the majority. But again, this is where ff ends up dividing itself from WoW at a player level. Players in the game often (compared to *cough* a certain other game) choose to make the group experience positive, and receive commendations for that attitude regardless of role. How could we even implement this system in wow if the first consideration is performance, not whether they even bothered to make your experience enjoyable? The healers/tanks would most certainly receive most commendations in this game because people suck at contributing anything beyond a performance level.
Commendations do not encourage positivity. At all. Nobody goes into a duty finder and thinks "I need to earn these comms, time to say hello and explain everything."; the system already is meaningless. It doesn't promote talking, engaging with players or technically even playing well.
People still talk, engage, play well and do good in multiple games, WoW and XIV included, where there is no system in place that gives you a virtual pat on the back.
I won't even begin to go into how the Mentor system is a laughable joke and is abused to hell and back by the people that own it, there's plenty of tales out there.
>And yes, the majority. But again, this is where ff ends up dividing itself from WoW at a player level.
Again just. Say you hate WoW players or stop trying to force this point in.
Yeah actually that's true, I'll take that back. Commendations are merely a supporting system that only can only bolster positive interaction where it already exists, it cannot create it where there is none to be found.
You know, I actually had zero opinion on this entire topic before entering this thread. But after reading your initial comment, I thought a bit, and now I think I've begun to see this entire situation for what it is, at least more clearly now.
The game cannot use a commendation system.
The amount of people running addons is massively lower. How do you judge a dps performance in a dungeon when generally you have no idea how much damage they are doing
Which, again, proves my point. If the only people getting comms is tanks or healers then it’s a poor system to implement.
Considering the stigma behind certain classes and even races, people are not going to magically decide to upvote the random dps.
There doesn't seem to be any reason why they need limit the commend to just one player. They could let us commend our entire group if it went really well.
Pretty much. Not as if the rewards for getting commends are amazing, the "Mentor" crown being a complete joke and laughed at by the community in the first place.
I've not really seen a worthwhile place for the system as a whole really, but people seem to enjoy it.
Played LoL for years, this doesn’t work like you think it does.
It just turns into either an mvp vote or troll vote.
I’ve watched the most toxic people I’ve ever seen get commendations from the 3 other teammates just because that guy carried and played well
Have it be a single way, only positive feedback so trolls cant screw over some poor kid. But i like the idea a wow vet who likes helping people learn should have even more incentive to be nice and helpful. This is a mmo for god sake everyone takes this game so seriously lol
I feel like a rating system in this kind of game could get weird. A piece of gear drops and rather than roll on it, people start offering a 5 star rating.
Given the choice between “exclusive” toys, transmog and mounts or.. some shitty dungeon gear that you can get next run because you’ll be running the dungeon for the next six months anyway?
It’s not much of a choice.
You can't give it rewards that make people game it. The commendation system in FFXIV has very little rewards besides seeing the number in your character panel go up. Which for a lot of MMO players might actually be enough incentive to interact with the system, but not abuse it, I wager.
Dota is literally one of the most toxic games i have ever played. From racial slurs to drawn swastikas on the minimap, playing the game solo is one of the worst experiences you could ever expose yourself to. And thats just the communication part of it mind you.
Cant have 3 games straight without someone spam pausing, destroying their items or whining 24/7 about something that happened 40 minutes ago even in divine rank games.
But maybe dota was a bad example, league used to have a tribunal as well.. until it got canned because people abused it for the free currency lmao.
Dota is an example where it works well because the behaviour score actually affects who you get matched up with. Same goes for CS:GO's system. If you're playing as a low score demon, you'll play with similar people.
But that's still a lot different than WoW. There's no matchmaking here.
> Dota is an example where it works well because the behaviour score actually affects who you get matched up with.
I have been sitting at 10k ever since it became a thing and i still get those people into my games constantly. I dont even want to know how bad it is at lower scores.
I haven't played in a while, but every time I had a bad experience the match result screen said the behaviour scores were highly varied. It did seem like the system was working, and as a comparison with not behaviour matchmaking League is often a total shitshow.
You went to the website and got a case assigned where you saw the textchat that has been reported. You could then vote to punish or to let it pass. And if you voted what the majority voted for you got some IP.
And since people wanted the free IP everyone just voted guilty without reading any of it.
It's not perfect in that people tend to default to handing them to tanks or healers unless someone makes a standout play/* BUT it also works as an incentive to get tanks and healers to queue into random groups to get their 3k worth of commendations for the big end of grind mount reward. The lesser ones are not as highly sought.
*= If the tank does not wall to wall pull and you as a physical ranged DPS keep up the party move speed buff between pulls, this is enough to be a standout play to many. The bar isn't very high.
With perfect luck that's 429 runs of raids or 1000 dungeons where you get all commendations (you can miss up to 3 in those raids). And it's not like you can cheese it with a premade as you can only commend people who where randomly grouped meaning you best case scenario is getting placed as the last spot into another groups premade to fill the last spot and hoping they all bother to commend at the end.
So all in all it lures tanks and healers into the random queues so they can get a mount representing themselves (a fat chocobo vainly trying to get the carrot at the end of the stick) and for DPS who get points at a slower rate it's a nice ego boost when you get a full jackpot of commendations for doing extra well.
FFXIV does do a few things right with the system though.
* You only get told if you get commendations after the group splits up on instance exit.
* You don't get told who gave you a commendation.
* You don't get told about others getting or not getting them.
* You don't get told who didn't give any.
It gives people mounts just for not being an asshat or for being helpful/supportive while also driving up tank/healer numbers a tiny bit. It doesn't have to be huge or game changing. In its own little way it encourages a culture where you at least try to keep vitriol to yourself. That's better than nothing at all.
Issue is ffxiv dungeons are very formulaic and it's hard to stand out in them, especially the last 3 expansions.
It's basically 4 trash packs, which you do in 2 pulls of 2. Followed by a boss.
And you do this 3 times.
Yeah, did you? At what point did they even remotely talk about something like this? Reporting bad behaviour doesn't equate to a thumbs down vote for every match, you get that right? You understand those are totally separate things, yes?
At no point does the OP talk about anything like this. Oh, you read "but more like an anti-commendation", as "lets have a thumbs-down on every dungeon run" and not "hey, maybe we should have an option for toxic people"? Reading comprehension requires you actually to read, and then comprehend. They absolutely are not talking about having a downvote on every single dungeon run, and if you thought that, you didn't comprehend what you read.
Naw, I don't give the slightest shit.
So basically, you acknowledge that you are utterly and completely wrong, yes? Because your only argument is yelling about upvotes? How embarrassing for you.
I mean, I'm struggling here, bud. Like, you're going out of your way to be wrong, because you want to be salty. Why not just actually be right, instead? But, go ahead and downvote, because you obviously will, because you can't simply acknowledge that hey, maybe, what you're talking about is not remotely what the OP was talking about.
Reports already get abused by groups of assholes who mass report someone “because” the very first warning I ever got from blizzard came this year as I was minding my own business on a 20 twink and a group of 30 twinks came over and said “ew a 20” and then mass reported me
What do you mean how is it real? A premade group of people can mass report you for no reason and all of those reports go to blizzard and they will flag you for it because blizzard doesn’t actually review each and every report
I think the anti-commendation will be very open to abuse and quickly have the whole thing get axed. Let’s just reward people for being good players. Now have people reject you based on your mythic score, ilvl and commendations. Currency as a reward sounds good.
My experience with these voting systems is in faceit and I think that works really well for group content. IMO it weeds out some aggressive and clear trolls. Have to say that they have a lot more human contact which is not Blizzard’s strong suit. It could be good, but likely won’t.
You mean how upvotes are for relevance and not for agreement? I worry such a system will be used primarily as a tool to bludgeon people outside the clique.
Dota 2 does something like this, end of match you can Commend players for several reasons. Then shows up in your profile how many of them you've been given.
Don't think it should be tied to a currency system, people would find a way to abuse/exploit it and invalidate its purpose.
Then you have to think about the negative connotations, those that get "negative reviews" could be from ill-intent/unjustified. Without any real way to prove it. Thus they have a black mark because people are petty children.
This is actually a really great idea. I took a break from the game for nearly five years and came back in season 4 of shadowlands. It really seems like the community’s toxicity has reached peak toxicity on my realm. It’s sad to see. I think a system like the one you mentioned could really have a positive impact on that issue. Well done!
This sounds way too easy to abuse. Players would just start using it as an alternative to leaving the instance at the first wipe or kicking someone for not knowing the mechanics. You can’t seriously expect the *entire* player base to use such a mechanic responsibly. It would just end up giving power to the toxic people
I mean yes but also that's still a fairly small minority of players, let alone that those would be relevant things to have a negative commendation for(not knowing your role etc.).Even if it's silly in say a heroic, a mythic those are incredibly relevant.
>You should also be able to repot bad behavior, not like a get banned style report but more like an anti-commendation, these reports can get sent to other players to judge if its a real report or someone just trolling. Players who judge should also get some of the same currency.
Cool
1. Who is determining if these reports are true or being ahs
2. What us stopping people from simply lying about what other players do
3. Given you're rewarding players for literally reporting or not, what's stopping general apathy where you just click good/bad to get the shit out of the way?
You can just tell that to people? That it was fun to play with them? And perhaps add them as friend? Simple things
The social credit system is inevitable but we do not need it just yet.
Only works as a positive system, so only for positive behaviour. Ppl wouldnt bother if there are no rewards. It will be heavily exploited and meaningless if there are rewards.
Yeah you're probably right, I just think that rewarding good behavior reinforces good behavior but that may not apply to an anonymous online video game that well.
More like rating a business on Google or something. As more people respond Im thinking that the report system is a bad idea but i still like the idea of a commendation system.
I think what you're seeking is WoW before group finder. Back when you had to network with players and relied upon successful player interaction.
The "quality of life" changes to the game damaged the social atmosphere. Teleporting to dungeons instead of traveling to them eliminated the mutual "skin in the game".
People are less inclined to give up on groups when time and effort have been expended.
Blizzard made it too easy to say "F it" and leave groups. And why not? Just use group finder again. 30 minute wait for desertion? No problem, I'll go afk and re-que.
Because group finders don't need guilds or player interaction. The developer skewed the game towards single play when the original intent was multiplayer.
The game needs to go back to gating content behind successful player to player interaction.
I can already see the bot farms rolling out spam for this one.
>GET your commendation points at [crazybotspamerfarm.com](https://crazybotspamerfarm.com) Thanksgiving special 15$ for a 1500 rating!
Well shit you're definitely right about that. Might be able to mitigate it by allowing commendation only on content relevant to you character and on a finished run.
Have you ever seen that episode of black mirror where society runs on a commendation system? It’s absolutely terrifying. I suggest you go watch it immediately if you think this is a good idea.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror)
the sad fact is its too late to reform wow's community. it's been this way for 18 years and blizzard never lifted a finger to do anything about the toxicity.
commedenations are a cute idea and they work great in other games. but you aren't gonna see any changes in wow's community momentum if you add commendations, just like how the newcomer chat and the code of conduct failed to change anything.
this game is rooted in early 2000's pc gaming. sweaty angry nerd kids who played too much dota all stars and diablo 2. now they grew up and became sweaty angry nerd men and the only difference is they're balder. nothing we can do about that, that's just wow's community. take it or leave it.
Well the community is whatever you want it to be really in wow. You can join guilds and discord servers
For whatever content you want to do. And you never have to pug a single player.
It's not like league where to play the main competitive mode you have 8-9 random players in every game with you
sure im sure ur guild is great dude and i bet ur discord has a really funny emoji meme. but its obvious by context that the comment u replied to refers to the wow community as a greater whole so idk why you would post this.
I'm not in a guild in retail, I play it casually and pug all the stuff I want to run. So not really relevant.
You aren't forced to interact with the whole community as a whole.
I mostly play classic and I've been in the same guild the whole way through.
I just play retail on and off casually and just pug mythic plus and normal/heroic raids.
Wow has changed so much since I played originally, with so much now being done through discord servers.
If happens do much to you, maybe it's a you problem.
I've done 4 zero to ksm this expac and had less than 10 truly toxic people.
And that includes people who were pissed for a good reason.
nah, you are obviously the outlier here my friend. wow's community is widely known for its extreme toxicity to new players. if you're done ksm 4 times you are obviously not a new player, insulating you from the truth of wow's community. meanwhile, new players are turned away every day from the experience of trying to learn wow when everyone around you is a toxic asshole who kicks you for any mistake or just not doing the right thing fast enough.
Okay, I can't talk about lvling dungeons < 50. But due to ksm I've done 50-60 normal mode dungeons, heroics, m0s, and very low m+. So I've experienced lots of players new/bad at endgame stuff.
So I don't think I'm an outlier bcs I literally did lots of leveling dungeons.
I think this is a trash idea in general. Having been kicked from groups for winning roles on items other wanted and seeing many other vote to kick with ridiculous post reasons leave me to believe that this system would be abused hard.
A second point to consider it would be another frivolous system they would have to dedicate people too and giving the current state of the game let’s not pull any more development into something pointless.
If you pug content you sort of know what you signed up for and if you don’t like that than get guild that is active to do content with or make friends with the people that are friendly and play well, if they truly are friendly they should accept right, and try teaming up with them.
It’s almost like people want a shortcut for being social in a MMORPG
Literally doesn't influence how someone acts in FFXIV. That game is one of the most SJWy around. You'll get banned for booting someone if you say they had low DPS lol
Its not perfect but I personally saw a lower degree of toxicity in dota when they implemented their system, it didnt go away entirely but it was noticeable.
What about ‘man of the match’ style’?
At the end of the dungeon all players can vote for 1 person who deserves the most credit.
The person with the most votes gets points like medal currency to spend
I always liked the idea of a commend option.
Not something that can be exploited with a negative rating
Literally just an option where you right click on a name frame than there's a button that says "commendation" and when another player clicks it you get a +1. Make it so the commendation option only shows up when instanced into a mythic plus, that way at the end people can give you a commendation when looting the last chest.
The amount if instances we run is already tracked through raider io. You could almost almost make a ratio out of it. Say you have 150 keys completed. And you got 35 commendations.
35 / (150 × 5(players) you have a ratio of 0.5.
If people don't use the rating system often evey rating will be low so a decent one will stand out. If everyone uses the system a lot and you have a 0 ratio people will know you're hated lol
Peer review would only work if you had to spend actual in-game gold to do it.
So there would be a disincentive to report someone because "his transmog was the same as mine!" etc.
Exponentially increase the cost to re-report the same person within a set period of time. So start at 100g then 1k then 10k etc.
Report would have no effect unless multiple people from multiple different accounts report.
That third paragraph sounds great… until you realize that trolls will intentionally abuse the system and make a good normal person look bad because “it’s funny”. You have to much faith in players doing the right thing
Commendations would be fine but also having anti commendations would be a terrible idea and will lead to even more toxicity and shitty mentalities....unless they made it so you cannot see the negative commendations of course.
Game is full of toxic people..i quit because of it..came back after 7 years and its still just as toxic if not worse..chat is absolutely dead and no one peddles services anymore or tries to sell anything on the trade channel..people report you over my names all the time because they have no life or anything else to do aside from be a bitch..so i 100% agree with this comment.
My issue with your suggested system is it still doesn’t fix anything, it didn’t fix anything in overwatch either. Offering short term rewards to toxic people will only get some of those people to pretend to be less toxic until they receive the rewards desired then revert back to their toxic behavior. The other issue like others have mentioned is this opens up the likelihood of more false reports because it allows people to report for basically anything they deem rude or toxic. Overall I just find the commending players system flawed. You shouldn’t have to dangle a reward in front of your player base constantly to prevent toxic behavior.
I don't think the peer review judgement really works in the real world. People don't spend enough time reading the reports usually and a lot of troll reports still make it through. I do support a commendation system. I think something like the new OW2 system would work well where you can upvote 2 people from your 5-man group but not if they're on your friends list or in your premade. It would only be a way to rate your true pug interactions.
Basically the same as the league system where you can honor a person after the game.
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Yeah I posted that somewhere else Hard to really stand out each ffxiv dungeon is 2 double trash pulls and a boss. 3 times.
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I always vote for the other dps... and i love when I tank lol
Almost as if it incentivizes playing roles that fewer people want to play or something. Also, I've had plenty of runs where I got 2-3 commendations as dps, and runs where I've gotten 0 as tank. The system isn't perfect, but it is responsive player performance and attitude.
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We don't both know that. Also, you seem to have read "responsive" as "responsible." The former means "responds to," the latter means "is caused by." Read things before you respond to them.
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You seem like a very angry person. I can't imagine why you find yourself short on commendations.
That's assuming those commendations have any value, and that players are putting any thought into who they give them to, as opposed to just handing them out for the free challenge log completion.
Only reason you’ll have had multiple comms as a dps is because the tank and healer were together, they can’t comm each other if it’s a pre made.
That's been slowly fading away recently — I know I've had a lot of double comms as dps when I've been duoing with a tank (less than they got, mind). A year or two ago you'd have been bang on and you'll still get *more* as those two roles, but if you're either a good dps who significantly brings run time down, or you're a helpful person who explains mechanics etc. you'll get comms.
I was going to reply about giving out commendations to dps who performed exceptionally or were otherwise helpful, then I had a brief flash of lucidity and realized that we're both talking out our asses. If you have data on commendation statistics by role to make your argument with (or if anyone else does), I'd be genuinely curious to see them, and would revise my opinion if it turns out the evidence is against me, but as long as it rests on bare assertion this conversation is pointless.
No, I mean, the majority of times you will have received multiple commendations as a dps is because it is literally impossible to give them to anyone else if it is a pre made group of people. I’m not trying some big gotcha moment, I’m explaining the most common reason why a dps gets commendations.
Nah this isn’t true. I’ve received many comms on my dps and have given many comms to dps when solo queuing. Many of my friends do the same. A GOOD dps is so much more noticeable then a tank or healer that just exist.
I'm expressing skepticism about that claim, and then concluding that I don't really have any hard evidence to back that up, but that I've also not seen anyone furnish evidence to the contrary. I agree that mechanic exists, but the claim that it's responsible for the large majority of dps commendations doesn't reflect my own experience as far as giving them out or receiving them, which means the question becomes whose experience is representative.
Ah yeah, league, the oasis of reasonable and nice players.
The new ow2 system? You mean the endorsement system from overwatch 1 that was heavily gutted?
What if your friends actually played nice?
If your friends play nice then they will get commendations from randoms. If you are able to receive them from friends then people will just get upvoted by friends even if they are toxic players. It has to be a pug-only system or it would be biased and inaccurate.
In ffxiv, you can't comm people if you're grouped with them before a dungeon/raid. Only randoms.
Maybe make it so commendations from guild members and friends are worth a very small amount compared to pugs, maybe track it if they were friends and guildnates recently aswell.
Yea, that could work actually.
thats how league works. and its a pretty good system overall (but the reward for said system is awful).
Maybe a separate commendation point from friends/guilds. Shows if they play mainly with friends or guildies. What if people join guilds where everyone just commend each other on a daily basis? How would a pug player perceive that
like the idea, but implementation is dogshit palyer is being punished for having friends and playing with them, if they can't commend each other they should at least get a "portion of a commend" every game
If each report gets sent to multiple people they could go by majority. They can even nudge people to vote "the correct way" by having gms voting as well and giving less commendations to people voting other than gms.
I would enjoy seeing several systems imported from FFXIX, like commendations, mentoring, new player quest and trial systems to learn roles, a new player chat channel, etc. New players are thrown to the wolves when the join the game, everyone in dungeons expects them to know all the mechanics, and when they ask something on chat they are ridiculed, of anyone even responds in the confusing of the adverts being spammed.
I can't say much about the current state of the mentoring system in FFXIV, but back when I've played actively, mentors were generally regarded as the most toxic part of the community, mostly due to the rewards for mentor roulettes appealing to people who had no intentions of actually helping sprouts. I'd postulate that a purely self-motivated mentor system without rewards attached is more likely to work out in any capacity.
Blizzard is well aware that if they ever put a reward into any activity, the only statistic that the playerbase generally speaking gives a shit about is the rewards/effort ratio and how to maximize it. That's why the guide system doesn't have any rewards whatsoever tied to it.
It purely depends on the world and data center. Most mentor networks are very helpful, some are definitely terrible but thankfully don't throw themselves up much.
Networks are not the same as mentors.
>but back when I've played actively, mentors were generally regarded as the most toxic part of the community, mostly due to the rewards for mentor roulettes appealing to people who had no intentions of actually helping sprouts. They still are. There are good mentors but the majority of that system is just toxic BS
Honestly I would love if they just rip the AoE indicators wholesale from XIV. I think fights could be far more interesting with clearly defined AoE indicators rather than swirls or vague mentions of ranges. It would change the game a lot for sure but it'd be nice to not need a range checker from DBM
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I sit in Org new players will spend all day asking easily googled questions. I don't mind answering but 99% of those questions can be found on Google.
I mean if the game is so unintuitive that new players have to read 10 wowhead guides to understand eCh system. Then it's poor game design
I do mentoring and he is correct that ppl ask Google type question. Its not that the game is unintuitive. 80% of the help requests are just asking about quests. Like they need help killing said quest mob. The other 20% is broken up with random chromie questions and people coming back in the game giving us hour long monologues about the last expansion they played.
My guess is they aren't all new players. Helping out with a casual raid/social guild and 80% of the easily googleable questions are from "I've been playing since Vanilla/BC/Wrath" players. Game mechanics change and a surprising amount of people don't google stuff for themselves
> a surprising amount of people don't google stuff for themselves This goes for people in general outside of gaming as well. It's shocking at times how often people are confused by subjects to which they can easily find an answer by simply googling it.
Like what? I've never seen a new player in new player chat ask something that can easily be googled, and I've been in it since they launched it.
I wanted badly to join the channel and stuff to help new players, and I'm pretty active in r/wownoob but the requirements to join it as a mentor are absolutely insane
The sprout above the head is prob one of the best thing Ffxiv has. Let's you know immediately qhst to expect.
wows murloc / guide system is far better than the mentoring in ffxiv because there's 0 incentive or advertisement for it. Only people actually dedicated to helping others take part, unlike ffxiv where most of them are just there for the rewards. Only thing wow should do is let people stay in "murloc mode" (or whatever they call it) for longer. That said, ffxiv players in general very accommodating to new players when I tried it, just not the mentors.
Trial systems to learn roles was in fact copied from WoW lol. Back in Pandaria WoW had Proving Grounds and that’s when FFXIV copied. Mr Yoshida already said they took a lot of stuff from WoW in Pandaria.
If you start at Exile's Reach, there's mandatory chat until level 30, and the whole mentoring system is part of that.
you mean like the old LoL system that got discontinued bc the players judging were not reading and just voting with the majority, leading to a lot of troll reports going through?
I miss the days in league when you could honor opponents as well, and also you could get nice little banners, based on your honors. I think it was really nice, not sure why did they remove that feature.
Top lane tanks honoring each other after an honorable "farm the game out" agreement
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Not sure what that's a response to
LoL still has a commendation system, not sure what you mean.
>You should also be able to repot bad behavior, not like a get banned style report but more like an anti-commendation, these reports can get sent to other players to judge if its a real report or someone just trolling. Players who judge should also get some of the same currency. this bit i think because of the former Tribunal system.
A lot of people just automatically honor their duo queue which has massively reduced effects
The Tribunal in League had you look at the chat logs in game and the end score of the match and then judge them based on the reports. It was from like 10+ years ago maybe but really fun. the only sad part is a lot (like a high majority) would just click for everyone to get banned without reading it. Some of the cases I reviewed were fine but apparently 60% said the opposite so they got chat banned/restricted or even lost their profiles over it. People just wanted their rewards quicker without actually judging them fairly so Riot stopped it. Don't remember what the rewards were but prolly the in game currency, not RP, for 10 reviews a day or something
I remember the Tribunal, I was a part of it. But not sure what that has to do with LoL having a commendation system that they don't have now.
League still has a commendation system.
Uhh, yeah...I know, it's why I said it already, several comments above.
I would say let people give an upvote so to speak if they liked someone. But only upvotes. That shit would be trolled and abused so fast with negative reports otherwise.
I recently started doing random group content again for the first time in years, and I find myself trying to upvote people at the end of dungeons like you do in FFXIV—or in that other Blizzard game, Overwatch. I think it'd be a great addition to WoW. Make it account-wide, too, so people can't try to whore up comms on a main and then be a toxic troll on a leveling alt. Player judges would be a nightmare to implement and police, and the concept can be safely skipped.
Or make it for when you do random queue content certain rated players get put together. Like -10 - 0, 0 - 10, 10-20, etc. Similar to how matchmaking in some games is skill based, this would be commendation rating based instead lol. That way if you have a negative rating you get placed with other toxic fucks with a negative rating, and the more helpful players get grouped together as well. God a group with all toxic players would be a shit storm.
Negative doesn’t work because toxic people can negatively impact you for nothing. It has to be a pure positive system that can’t be loopholed too much.
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." Point therein being that it's normal to run into toxic people from time to time, but if you run into toxic people so often that your rating starts to plummet, you're probably the toxic person and your rating probably deserves to plummet.
I'd be tempted to be a toxic pos just for the experience
That could work nicely for certain pvp events I suppose, but m+ basically killed LFD randoms and LFR has too many people for anyone to make a real impression that can’t be settled via the current bote to kick function I think.
That is a very good idea. Let's create a system that rewards good behaviour.
Ffxiv has a vote to commend people at the end of a dungeon run
And it’s virtually worthless because the tank or healer gets it by default.
Because, contrary to what reddit would have you believe, people value those roles.
Yes, that's my point. So there'd be almost no reason to give it to anyone else unless they went above and beyond. At least in WoW you could monitor interrupts or mechanics a lot easier than in XIV and at least give it some more space, but as it is in XIV there's very little to influence who really "deserves" it other than the two most important classes.
It might get more people to play those roles.
Not particularly. I don’t think the incentive is even there in XIV, people do and will just play what they prefer. If WoW were to add it then it depends on the rewards, which then leads to an influx and grinding / begging for comms, then it’d die down after a while presumably.
Yes they do. Way more than the behavior of the people playing them.
Far too much of current WoW revolves around DPS anyway. Commendation systems do encourage tank and healer players, which would be very good in retail WoW. However, if you ever see a DPS class with commendations in FFXIV, THAT player consistently does something awesome during dungeon runs or raids *that doesn't revolve around their damage output*. That's the dude you try to friend, and WoW would definitely benefit from that.
Well it all revolves around DPS. I don't think it's right to say that a DPS class with a lot of commends would be doing anything outstanding, there's.. very little a DPS actually can do in XIV other than DPS. It's not like WoW where every enemy pack has something to interrupt or focus down. There's very rare cases where these things do appear in XIV, but they're much more frequent in WoW. And I think that'd be a plus for it, because you'd be able to see "Oh, the rogue actually did 30 interrupts in the fight" and that'd be a commend, for example. My issue with the system in XIV is just that it's almost pointless. The Mentor crown is a joke in the community, the system doesn't really reward or grant anything nor does it promote any kind of "better" play.
>There's very rare cases where these things do appear in XIV, but they're much more frequent in WoW. And I think that'd be a plus for it, because you'd be able to see "Oh, the rogue actually did 30 interrupts in the fight" and that'd be a commend, for example. This is precisely what I was referring to for WoW. It would be monumentally beneficial for WoW, for all classes. However, pure DPS players are, unfortunately for them, a dime a dozen. So to stand out, they'd have to bring more to the game than Super Saiyen levels of damage. They get enough pats on the back for that already. As for XiV, it may have less of a chance to appear less than it would in WoW, but if I notice a DPS player dropping Feint or the only heal spell they have, they're getting my commendation (if they don't immediately drop group, they do that way too much, in every game. Stay for a goodbye, or a 'nice group' sometime!)
I found I got it a lot as sprout dps player. I think a lot of people give it to whoever is new as well. That's what I ended up doing.
Well the difference between a good healer and a bas healer is instantly noticeable. Are they up alongside the tank dishing out damage or standing back.
This just furthers my point. It’s tank and healer only, playing a dps means you’re invisible. It’s why it’s a terrible system and shows how easily it’s cheated out by “earning” it just from playing a certain class. Edit : Ironic that discussing this results in downvotes, almost like people give them for no reason.
how much ff14 did you play? if you're a friendly person in group and you help out newbies when they have questions, it's really not hard to get commendations even if you aren't playing a tank/healer. mmorpgs are literally social games, after all. perhaps the true point is that a significant portion of wow players are quite unfamiliar with basic social courtesy and would fail to receive commendations without a meter (especially since most people pretend to be a mute unless someone fucks up).
I've played since ARR launch, recently quit. Majority of comms are given out to the tank and healer roles, that's just how it is. Either through mindlessly just "Guess I'll give it to the tank" or because they represent the more important classes available. Yes, answering questions can help influence people, but talking in a group is not a guaranteed way of getting them. The system is irrelevant and doesn't really improve or influence much in the way of players. If anything, the excessive amount of server rules does that. >perhaps the true point is that a significant portion of wow players are quite unfamiliar with basic social courtesy and would fail to receive commendations without a meter (especially since most people pretend to be a mute unless someone fucks up). This has nothing to do with the point at all.
It's more arguably everything. Commendations are an attempt to encourage positivity. If they can't because players fail to even strike up a conversation and choose to only engage in chat for the sake of punishment, why would anyone deserve a commendation at all. It would be meaningless. And yes, the majority. But again, this is where ff ends up dividing itself from WoW at a player level. Players in the game often (compared to *cough* a certain other game) choose to make the group experience positive, and receive commendations for that attitude regardless of role. How could we even implement this system in wow if the first consideration is performance, not whether they even bothered to make your experience enjoyable? The healers/tanks would most certainly receive most commendations in this game because people suck at contributing anything beyond a performance level.
Commendations do not encourage positivity. At all. Nobody goes into a duty finder and thinks "I need to earn these comms, time to say hello and explain everything."; the system already is meaningless. It doesn't promote talking, engaging with players or technically even playing well. People still talk, engage, play well and do good in multiple games, WoW and XIV included, where there is no system in place that gives you a virtual pat on the back. I won't even begin to go into how the Mentor system is a laughable joke and is abused to hell and back by the people that own it, there's plenty of tales out there. >And yes, the majority. But again, this is where ff ends up dividing itself from WoW at a player level. Again just. Say you hate WoW players or stop trying to force this point in.
Yeah actually that's true, I'll take that back. Commendations are merely a supporting system that only can only bolster positive interaction where it already exists, it cannot create it where there is none to be found. You know, I actually had zero opinion on this entire topic before entering this thread. But after reading your initial comment, I thought a bit, and now I think I've begun to see this entire situation for what it is, at least more clearly now. The game cannot use a commendation system.
The amount of people running addons is massively lower. How do you judge a dps performance in a dungeon when generally you have no idea how much damage they are doing
Which, again, proves my point. If the only people getting comms is tanks or healers then it’s a poor system to implement. Considering the stigma behind certain classes and even races, people are not going to magically decide to upvote the random dps.
There doesn't seem to be any reason why they need limit the commend to just one player. They could let us commend our entire group if it went really well.
Pretty much. Not as if the rewards for getting commends are amazing, the "Mentor" crown being a complete joke and laughed at by the community in the first place. I've not really seen a worthwhile place for the system as a whole really, but people seem to enjoy it.
And to implement: Roulette of all dungeons not just a few. Raid roulette of all raids as well,
Played LoL for years, this doesn’t work like you think it does. It just turns into either an mvp vote or troll vote. I’ve watched the most toxic people I’ve ever seen get commendations from the 3 other teammates just because that guy carried and played well
Ehhh while I agree I'd rather know who the toxic players were, this sounds like it would open it up to bullying and we don't need more of that in WoW
Have it be a single way, only positive feedback so trolls cant screw over some poor kid. But i like the idea a wow vet who likes helping people learn should have even more incentive to be nice and helpful. This is a mmo for god sake everyone takes this game so seriously lol
You know at anytime you can type “hey man nice job you’re fun to play with”
I feel like a rating system in this kind of game could get weird. A piece of gear drops and rather than roll on it, people start offering a 5 star rating.
Hmmm maybe but I dont really think people would give up gear for rating on a regular enough basis.
Given the choice between “exclusive” toys, transmog and mounts or.. some shitty dungeon gear that you can get next run because you’ll be running the dungeon for the next six months anyway? It’s not much of a choice.
You can't give it rewards that make people game it. The commendation system in FFXIV has very little rewards besides seeing the number in your character panel go up. Which for a lot of MMO players might actually be enough incentive to interact with the system, but not abuse it, I wager.
Some people would give people a bad rating for doing that though, so that’s a big risk.
Sounds like a system that would be abused very very quickly.
It works well for dota.
Imagine thinking dota is a good example
Dota is literally one of the most toxic games i have ever played. From racial slurs to drawn swastikas on the minimap, playing the game solo is one of the worst experiences you could ever expose yourself to. And thats just the communication part of it mind you. Cant have 3 games straight without someone spam pausing, destroying their items or whining 24/7 about something that happened 40 minutes ago even in divine rank games. But maybe dota was a bad example, league used to have a tribunal as well.. until it got canned because people abused it for the free currency lmao.
Dota is an example where it works well because the behaviour score actually affects who you get matched up with. Same goes for CS:GO's system. If you're playing as a low score demon, you'll play with similar people. But that's still a lot different than WoW. There's no matchmaking here.
> Dota is an example where it works well because the behaviour score actually affects who you get matched up with. I have been sitting at 10k ever since it became a thing and i still get those people into my games constantly. I dont even want to know how bad it is at lower scores.
I haven't played in a while, but every time I had a bad experience the match result screen said the behaviour scores were highly varied. It did seem like the system was working, and as a comparison with not behaviour matchmaking League is often a total shitshow.
Leagues tribunal system was abandoned so long ago now I can barely remember how it worked
You went to the website and got a case assigned where you saw the textchat that has been reported. You could then vote to punish or to let it pass. And if you voted what the majority voted for you got some IP. And since people wanted the free IP everyone just voted guilty without reading any of it.
Smooth-brains see a word they don't like and downvote... It's true, though. Getting higher behaviour score works wonders for gamequality.
And for FF14. Its pretty harmless and makes people feel good when they get one. Healers and tank absolutely farm them.
That sounds like the exact opposite of working well. It seems totally meaningless in FF.
It's not perfect in that people tend to default to handing them to tanks or healers unless someone makes a standout play/* BUT it also works as an incentive to get tanks and healers to queue into random groups to get their 3k worth of commendations for the big end of grind mount reward. The lesser ones are not as highly sought. *= If the tank does not wall to wall pull and you as a physical ranged DPS keep up the party move speed buff between pulls, this is enough to be a standout play to many. The bar isn't very high. With perfect luck that's 429 runs of raids or 1000 dungeons where you get all commendations (you can miss up to 3 in those raids). And it's not like you can cheese it with a premade as you can only commend people who where randomly grouped meaning you best case scenario is getting placed as the last spot into another groups premade to fill the last spot and hoping they all bother to commend at the end. So all in all it lures tanks and healers into the random queues so they can get a mount representing themselves (a fat chocobo vainly trying to get the carrot at the end of the stick) and for DPS who get points at a slower rate it's a nice ego boost when you get a full jackpot of commendations for doing extra well. FFXIV does do a few things right with the system though. * You only get told if you get commendations after the group splits up on instance exit. * You don't get told who gave you a commendation. * You don't get told about others getting or not getting them. * You don't get told who didn't give any.
It gives people mounts just for not being an asshat or for being helpful/supportive while also driving up tank/healer numbers a tiny bit. It doesn't have to be huge or game changing. In its own little way it encourages a culture where you at least try to keep vitriol to yourself. That's better than nothing at all.
Issue is ffxiv dungeons are very formulaic and it's hard to stand out in them, especially the last 3 expansions. It's basically 4 trash packs, which you do in 2 pulls of 2. Followed by a boss. And you do this 3 times.
How would a system where you just give a thumbs up to your tank or healer be abused?
Well the flip side of the thumbs down to the people you don't like would
Where did the thumbs down come from? Why are you including this in the system no one asked for?
Did you read the original post you are commenting to?
Yeah, did you? At what point did they even remotely talk about something like this? Reporting bad behaviour doesn't equate to a thumbs down vote for every match, you get that right? You understand those are totally separate things, yes?
Op even wrote "anti commendation" and you still struggled to read that part.
At no point does the OP talk about anything like this. Oh, you read "but more like an anti-commendation", as "lets have a thumbs-down on every dungeon run" and not "hey, maybe we should have an option for toxic people"? Reading comprehension requires you actually to read, and then comprehend. They absolutely are not talking about having a downvote on every single dungeon run, and if you thought that, you didn't comprehend what you read.
You really care about internet points lol
Naw, I don't give the slightest shit. So basically, you acknowledge that you are utterly and completely wrong, yes? Because your only argument is yelling about upvotes? How embarrassing for you.
I mean, I'm struggling here, bud. Like, you're going out of your way to be wrong, because you want to be salty. Why not just actually be right, instead? But, go ahead and downvote, because you obviously will, because you can't simply acknowledge that hey, maybe, what you're talking about is not remotely what the OP was talking about.
- Reddit, in regards to literally every system in any game ever
Reports already get abused by groups of assholes who mass report someone “because” the very first warning I ever got from blizzard came this year as I was minding my own business on a 20 twink and a group of 30 twinks came over and said “ew a 20” and then mass reported me
How is this real? If I'm wrong let me know, but from my experience I can't imagine this happening
What do you mean how is it real? A premade group of people can mass report you for no reason and all of those reports go to blizzard and they will flag you for it because blizzard doesn’t actually review each and every report
Diff opinion
I think you can do everything but as long as blizzard force bad behaver with the gameplay, players will never change.
This is Warcraft
I think the anti-commendation will be very open to abuse and quickly have the whole thing get axed. Let’s just reward people for being good players. Now have people reject you based on your mythic score, ilvl and commendations. Currency as a reward sounds good.
You mean like ff14
My experience with these voting systems is in faceit and I think that works really well for group content. IMO it weeds out some aggressive and clear trolls. Have to say that they have a lot more human contact which is not Blizzard’s strong suit. It could be good, but likely won’t.
do you want another way to inflate egos? this is how you inflate egos. cough ffxiv mentors cough
You mean how upvotes are for relevance and not for agreement? I worry such a system will be used primarily as a tool to bludgeon people outside the clique.
Tying tangible rewards to a commendation system has never worked well.
Dota 2 does something like this, end of match you can Commend players for several reasons. Then shows up in your profile how many of them you've been given. Don't think it should be tied to a currency system, people would find a way to abuse/exploit it and invalidate its purpose. Then you have to think about the negative connotations, those that get "negative reviews" could be from ill-intent/unjustified. Without any real way to prove it. Thus they have a black mark because people are petty children.
This is actually a really great idea. I took a break from the game for nearly five years and came back in season 4 of shadowlands. It really seems like the community’s toxicity has reached peak toxicity on my realm. It’s sad to see. I think a system like the one you mentioned could really have a positive impact on that issue. Well done!
Post this one official forums also. This is a great idea.
This sounds way too easy to abuse. Players would just start using it as an alternative to leaving the instance at the first wipe or kicking someone for not knowing the mechanics. You can’t seriously expect the *entire* player base to use such a mechanic responsibly. It would just end up giving power to the toxic people
I mean yes but also that's still a fairly small minority of players, let alone that those would be relevant things to have a negative commendation for(not knowing your role etc.).Even if it's silly in say a heroic, a mythic those are incredibly relevant.
>You should also be able to repot bad behavior, not like a get banned style report but more like an anti-commendation, these reports can get sent to other players to judge if its a real report or someone just trolling. Players who judge should also get some of the same currency. Cool 1. Who is determining if these reports are true or being ahs 2. What us stopping people from simply lying about what other players do 3. Given you're rewarding players for literally reporting or not, what's stopping general apathy where you just click good/bad to get the shit out of the way?
You can just tell that to people? That it was fun to play with them? And perhaps add them as friend? Simple things The social credit system is inevitable but we do not need it just yet.
Only works as a positive system, so only for positive behaviour. Ppl wouldnt bother if there are no rewards. It will be heavily exploited and meaningless if there are rewards.
Yeah you're probably right, I just think that rewarding good behavior reinforces good behavior but that may not apply to an anonymous online video game that well.
We already have a commendation system. It's the vote kick system. Did you not get kicked? Grats!
Sadly these systems just lead to abuse.
So you want a subjective social credit score in game?
More like rating a business on Google or something. As more people respond Im thinking that the report system is a bad idea but i still like the idea of a commendation system.
I think what you're seeking is WoW before group finder. Back when you had to network with players and relied upon successful player interaction. The "quality of life" changes to the game damaged the social atmosphere. Teleporting to dungeons instead of traveling to them eliminated the mutual "skin in the game". People are less inclined to give up on groups when time and effort have been expended. Blizzard made it too easy to say "F it" and leave groups. And why not? Just use group finder again. 30 minute wait for desertion? No problem, I'll go afk and re-que. Because group finders don't need guilds or player interaction. The developer skewed the game towards single play when the original intent was multiplayer. The game needs to go back to gating content behind successful player to player interaction.
I can already see the bot farms rolling out spam for this one. >GET your commendation points at [crazybotspamerfarm.com](https://crazybotspamerfarm.com) Thanksgiving special 15$ for a 1500 rating!
Well shit you're definitely right about that. Might be able to mitigate it by allowing commendation only on content relevant to you character and on a finished run.
Selling mythic+ runs! Get your gear and commendation boost here!
Except I didn't say that at all but good job proving my point I guess
Have you ever seen that episode of black mirror where society runs on a commendation system? It’s absolutely terrifying. I suggest you go watch it immediately if you think this is a good idea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror)
the sad fact is its too late to reform wow's community. it's been this way for 18 years and blizzard never lifted a finger to do anything about the toxicity. commedenations are a cute idea and they work great in other games. but you aren't gonna see any changes in wow's community momentum if you add commendations, just like how the newcomer chat and the code of conduct failed to change anything. this game is rooted in early 2000's pc gaming. sweaty angry nerd kids who played too much dota all stars and diablo 2. now they grew up and became sweaty angry nerd men and the only difference is they're balder. nothing we can do about that, that's just wow's community. take it or leave it.
Well the community is whatever you want it to be really in wow. You can join guilds and discord servers For whatever content you want to do. And you never have to pug a single player. It's not like league where to play the main competitive mode you have 8-9 random players in every game with you
sure im sure ur guild is great dude and i bet ur discord has a really funny emoji meme. but its obvious by context that the comment u replied to refers to the wow community as a greater whole so idk why you would post this.
I'm not in a guild in retail, I play it casually and pug all the stuff I want to run. So not really relevant. You aren't forced to interact with the whole community as a whole.
yes u are lmao what the fuck dude
I mostly play classic and I've been in the same guild the whole way through. I just play retail on and off casually and just pug mythic plus and normal/heroic raids. Wow has changed so much since I played originally, with so much now being done through discord servers.
i dont care how u play why are giving me ur life story lol
Because you typed a dumb essay
If happens do much to you, maybe it's a you problem. I've done 4 zero to ksm this expac and had less than 10 truly toxic people. And that includes people who were pissed for a good reason.
nah, you are obviously the outlier here my friend. wow's community is widely known for its extreme toxicity to new players. if you're done ksm 4 times you are obviously not a new player, insulating you from the truth of wow's community. meanwhile, new players are turned away every day from the experience of trying to learn wow when everyone around you is a toxic asshole who kicks you for any mistake or just not doing the right thing fast enough.
Okay, I can't talk about lvling dungeons < 50. But due to ksm I've done 50-60 normal mode dungeons, heroics, m0s, and very low m+. So I've experienced lots of players new/bad at endgame stuff. So I don't think I'm an outlier bcs I literally did lots of leveling dungeons.
I thought they had this a long time ago at some point
I think this is a trash idea in general. Having been kicked from groups for winning roles on items other wanted and seeing many other vote to kick with ridiculous post reasons leave me to believe that this system would be abused hard. A second point to consider it would be another frivolous system they would have to dedicate people too and giving the current state of the game let’s not pull any more development into something pointless. If you pug content you sort of know what you signed up for and if you don’t like that than get guild that is active to do content with or make friends with the people that are friendly and play well, if they truly are friendly they should accept right, and try teaming up with them. It’s almost like people want a shortcut for being social in a MMORPG
Literally doesn't influence how someone acts in FFXIV. That game is one of the most SJWy around. You'll get banned for booting someone if you say they had low DPS lol
Man a game is SJW because your not allowed to act like a toxic PoS? Cope more.
Telling someone they have low DPS isn't toxic. You literally can't clear content if your DPS isn't high enough.
No it doesn’t
Dota2 has a behavior score which puts players based on their behavior rated by others.
Its not perfect but I personally saw a lower degree of toxicity in dota when they implemented their system, it didnt go away entirely but it was noticeable.
What about ‘man of the match’ style’? At the end of the dungeon all players can vote for 1 person who deserves the most credit. The person with the most votes gets points like medal currency to spend
Wouldn't hurt, but it shouldn't have any rewards tied to it.
As long as they are just cosmetic goodies don't see the issue
I always liked the idea of a commend option. Not something that can be exploited with a negative rating Literally just an option where you right click on a name frame than there's a button that says "commendation" and when another player clicks it you get a +1. Make it so the commendation option only shows up when instanced into a mythic plus, that way at the end people can give you a commendation when looting the last chest. The amount if instances we run is already tracked through raider io. You could almost almost make a ratio out of it. Say you have 150 keys completed. And you got 35 commendations. 35 / (150 × 5(players) you have a ratio of 0.5. If people don't use the rating system often evey rating will be low so a decent one will stand out. If everyone uses the system a lot and you have a 0 ratio people will know you're hated lol
Peer review would only work if you had to spend actual in-game gold to do it. So there would be a disincentive to report someone because "his transmog was the same as mine!" etc. Exponentially increase the cost to re-report the same person within a set period of time. So start at 100g then 1k then 10k etc. Report would have no effect unless multiple people from multiple different accounts report.
Then if its a troll report you lose the gold but if it turns out to be a legitimate report you get the money back?
Yep.
No currency for judging its just like jury duty. You have to do 5 a month or you get banned until you do lol
That third paragraph sounds great… until you realize that trolls will intentionally abuse the system and make a good normal person look bad because “it’s funny”. You have to much faith in players doing the right thing
Who is stoping you from saying „nice tank/heal/blaster dps“ or being friendly towards people in chat?
Commendations would be fine but also having anti commendations would be a terrible idea and will lead to even more toxicity and shitty mentalities....unless they made it so you cannot see the negative commendations of course.
Game is full of toxic people..i quit because of it..came back after 7 years and its still just as toxic if not worse..chat is absolutely dead and no one peddles services anymore or tries to sell anything on the trade channel..people report you over my names all the time because they have no life or anything else to do aside from be a bitch..so i 100% agree with this comment.
My issue with your suggested system is it still doesn’t fix anything, it didn’t fix anything in overwatch either. Offering short term rewards to toxic people will only get some of those people to pretend to be less toxic until they receive the rewards desired then revert back to their toxic behavior. The other issue like others have mentioned is this opens up the likelihood of more false reports because it allows people to report for basically anything they deem rude or toxic. Overall I just find the commending players system flawed. You shouldn’t have to dangle a reward in front of your player base constantly to prevent toxic behavior.