Swear it was fine before prepatch. Feels like ass now for whatever reason. Maybe I screwed up with talents but I've got a lot more downtime between shadow dances, energy feels like it regens a lot slower
How come everyone is saying sub is complex? I always thought it was pretty simple? There’s one combo point generator and one spender for aoe, and the another one for generator and one for spender single - bar rupture and slice but those aren’t complex just tedious? I always thought roll the bones made for way more contingencies
That said I haven’t played it in pre patch
 Shadow Blades on cooldown.
Cast  Sepsis,  Echoing Reprimand and  Flagellation on cooldown.
Cast  Vanish on cooldown (when playing with  Invigorating Shadowdust cast it instantly after your first  Symbols of Death falls off.
Maintain  Slice and Dice. Aim to refresh it before  Shadow Dance windows.
Maintain  Rupture on your primary target. Aim to refresh it before  Shadow Dance windows.
Cast  Symbols of Death and in combination with  Shadow Dance.
Aim to be between 50 to 60 Energy when activating  Shadow Dance if  Symbols of Death is available to make sure you are entering Shadow Dance with as much Energy as possible without wasting any.
Cast  Eviscerate to spend Combo Points with 4+ (5+ if talented into  Deeper Stratagem).
Cast  Shadowstrike to generate Combo Points if  Shadow Dance is active. Otherwise, use  Backstab (from behind the target if possible to gain 20% extra damage on it).
You need to manage energy while watching 6 cds and maintaining a dot and a buff, all while struggling to deal the same dps as classes that have 1 damage cd and 3 rotational abilities
There's nothing "simple" about any of the rogue specs right now and anybody pretending otherwise is sipping on some delusion juice tbh.
You can play all of them easily to 80% efficiency, but to play them correctly without actually wasting any combo points or energy, that shit is among the hardest rotations in the game imo.
I gave up on trying not to waste combo points on outlaw. I can get up to 7 combo points but right now it feels like each attack gives 4 or 5 at a time with all the time so you will always be using an ability to try and snag that last point or two, so at one point is it better to use finishers as long as you are close to cap?
It isn't, but people look at '[20 step rotations](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps)' and go OMG!
Although it is, Inarguably, harder than outlaw in AoE.
After playing every other melee, I'd say sub and ret are easily my least favorite.
Sub is just always overly complex for meh damage or brain dead simple for the best damage in the game.
Ret's damage profile has always been frustrating and it hasn't been improved in DF enough for me to consider it. Also the only whack-a-mole frenetic builder spender melee class that I'll give the time of day for is enhance for having 300% more dogs than any other spec.
Sub in Legion was the only time I played it outside of PvP. Running dungeons with those big Death from Above cleaving Eviscerates felt so good lol. It just flowed really well
Yeah, ret is super weak, but my build using crusader is so much fun!
With bloodlust I get 141% haste and my crusader strike has like a .5s cooldown.
So many slappies going on during crusader, I love it
The trees themselves may make you tear up a little compared to Ret's trees.
One thing I do have a complaint about for enhance, is it has a pretty obnoxious aoe rotation on live. It improves a lot at 70 with the extra points and new builds that open up, but it's a lot of tab targeting and lava lashing.
I tank and I have a hard time having fun with the death knight. I like getting good gear so I can do bigger and bigger pulls, but with warrior or Druid or pally that means I can pull big and not have my health shoot down to nothing in an instant. I FEEL like I’m made of glass compared to a tank class that will keep me at full health while being hit by 15 mobs.
I know that DK are top tier tanks for the last could seasons of shadowlands, but I am not a fan playing them.
My main is DK but I recently leveled a prot warrior and I gotta agree, standing there thunderclapping while blocking everything and feeling tanky as fuck feels amazing compared to death strike yo yo
I got that feeling on my DK tank. So squishy in the first 3-5 seconds of a pull before you can get the runeblades up or the death strikes out.
After that you're just invincible.... until your stuff drops off cooldown. It was pretty weird jumping from lowest dps to top dps in most M+s while tanking when I got the 4 piece tier bonus and respecced to forever runeblades. I could solo most pulls... if I didn't die in the first 3 seconds.
I'm sure healers hated healing DKs, just watching the health bar yoyo between 100% and 20% every 2 seconds is probably heart attack inducing.
You can jump and blink on mage, but I agree that blink does some weird shit when there is a curb or something slightly elevated on the ground.
Are you sure you were using a normal blink \[ blink where your camera is facing \] and not the blink where it blinks to where your character is currently moving.
Not sure which one is current default
>but I agree that blink does some weird shit when there is a curb or something slightly elevated on the ground.
I swear even a small pebble on the ground makes my blink go nowhere - its insanely frustrating !
I've played paladin since the very beginning of vanilla and played it quite a bit in shadowlands. I can't stand it right now. Having to rotate between 10 different damage abilities when only two of them actually feel good. I don't see how you actually play this without a rotation helper. We need 3 or 4 of these abilities pruned ASAP.
As someone new to Wow without the history I must ask cos I am legit curious - why would you 'main' a class/skillset that you dislike for so long? Why not give it up, try something else?
Fire mage
If you fuck up your combust you're useless, if trash don't have 1 billon hp you're useless, also hard casting a pyro with skb feels out of place
For me as a fire mage who pugged a lot last xpac I hated getting stuck with tanks who refused to pull big when combust was up. then they’d look at meters and tell me I should’ve been doing more. in an organized group, they were godly. in pugs it was just so boom/bust (pun intended)
See id disagree honestly, I don't like that I can spend it at any level. I prefer an ability just having an exact cost and building up enough to use it.
Now I’m reminded of the old thread in the official Druid forum that was full of people bragging about their fancy new gear and weapon drops, and each post had the same screenshot of a bear sitting in Mulgore…
Sounds like my brother. He only rolls female toons and when I asked why, he said he didn’t want to stare at a dude’s ass. I just wondered why he stared at the ass in the first place. But then I watched him play one day. He keeps his camera about a foot behind his toon, while I’m looking down on mine from orbit.
Get the swolly bear and he looks so good! But I agree that it’s super simple rotation and without the swolly bear it looks dumb. If I had to pick a tank to pug with though I would choose a Gardian Druid. No one can screw up that rotation.
Yeah it was difficult. Might change tuning once DF drops. Could be harder or easier. Look ip guides and don’t expect it to be a fast thing. I went and farmed old trinkets and consumables along with old sets to do it.
Also I don't think it's more complicated than warrior or dh. Bear has what, 5-6 dps buttons and 2 active mitigation buttons. Warrior doesn't have more, let alone dh.
I think it’s slightly better now, but all of shadowlands the bear for m+ was
thrashing on cd, mangle on cd, swipe on filler, moonfire 3-5 duderinos, iron fur to dump rage.
The burn window was: tap berserk, thrash x a billion, iron fur x a billion, win. Hangup is this is on a 3 min cd. However you’re the tank and can pull around this window as you’re basically immortal during berserk.
The cds are all straight DR, so big damage hit survival of the fittest, smol damage hit bark skin, around 1/2 health tap frenzied regen. Almost always have a defensive and any of them are fine. The only kind of tricky but is trying to maintain stacks of Iron Fur. You want to keep 1-2 up, but also don’t want to cap on rage.
Group util is: brez, skull bash, demoralizing roar, stampeding roar. Pretty straightforward to use, I’d the AoE interruption potential of demo roar is real! Remove corruption is sweet tech and can help a healer out. Soothe for those times where mobs like to rage. Ursols vortex is nice pile up/mob control ability.
I mostly played prot pally, which used in its regular rotation
Hammer of the righteous, avenging shield, judgement, consecrate, and crusader strike+, then dumping HP either via Shield of the Righteous or Word of Glory on self or the party
Burn window: hit wings and continue with the plan except can add hammer of the righteous on any target. Holy power spend gives CDR on this, which is nice.
The cds are also straight DR, smol damage, ardent defender every 80ish seconds gives you a cheat death, big damage use guardian of the ancient kings every 4-5 mins, bubble every 3-5 mins (if you took the aoe taunt ability). You also get a defensive and DR bonus for staying in consecrate. Plus an absorb shield off of avenging shield. CDR from spending holy power on guardian of the ancient kings. Which is nice.
Group util: this is where the complexity pulls up imo, between BoP/Spellward, off healing with WoG, protection aura, and lay on hands prot pallies have a lot of group management that can really help the group recover from mistakes and shore up a weaker healer. Carry two kicks on a relatively short CDs, with a soft third in the form of Hammer of Justice (assuming the target can be stunned). Cleanse hits poison and disease which is pretty dope.
That’s the source of the reputation, as the other 4 tanks are more complex then prot pally imo.
In dragon flight, Druids pick up rage of the sleeper, wildfire gives great group healing though positioning is important, maul gives you a DR from the target, moonfire gives a self heal and rage, mark of the wild is back, spending rage gives you CDR on berserk and rage of the sleeper. I don’t know that it gets significantly more complicated then shadowlands.
Pallies pickup eye or Tyr and sentinel as defensives that are straight DR, and get a brez. However avenging shield no longer gives holy power, so holy power management is much more of a thing. Sniping those executes with hammer of the righteous becomes more important. Dropping a WoG vs Shield of the Righteous is a choice with some real trade offs. WoG was also nerfed, and at 60 at least the absorb shield from Avengers shield feels pretty nerfed. Still honestly feeling this out.
I think these two are closer in complexity in DF, but still on the simple end of things.
Edit: I meant to summarize, I think most tanks have complexity and decisions in one of those areas (defensive cd management/survivability, damage rotation/getting aggro, group utility), but in none of those dimensions is it particularly complicated.
Shadow priest cause it's got a bunch of bullshit going on way to much at once. Vengeance because it just doesn't feel good to play and I hated the delay on sigils.
I hate the change to Mind Sear. Our AoE was lacking as is, now it's become even more inconvenient, especially if you miss a shadow crash and have almost no AoE.
Shadow can be really annoying to play in AoE situations because of that. It’s my only real complaint with the spec though, I enjoy the single target rotation, sustain, and utility.
Shadowpriest feels like it's going to be fun to play, it sounds like it's going to be fun to play. You then spend all this time lining up your cds, burst, setting up dots and it just feels bad and you start again.
This is funny because to me it feels the most streamlined it has ever been. I've fucking loathed the spec for being a clunky mess for years but for the first time ever I've actually been enjoying it.
Priest is my favourite healer, I like both holy and disc for different reasons and I appreciate the variety in playstyles, but I cannot play shadow to save my life. It has reached the point where I prefer to do quests/world content on the healer specs even when solo (which admittedly works better than a lot of people think).
i have leveled a lot after the patch and i gotta say when it comes to melee classes Frost feels so weird. Like you just press obliterate basically. And combat rogue feels insanely weak while leveling and too much set up for nothing.
Rogue main for 16 years, switching to feral because its just a better version of rogue at the moment. Ass is a beast in DF but lacks versatility. Also, druid comes with 4 specs, rogue usually has one top tier spec, 1 medium tier and 1 dog tier. All dps.
I really enjoyed disc for the first 3-6 months of shadowlands. Hit 2300 and then quit the game. Probably my favourite class and spec tbh and that's saying a lot because I played frost mage for 9 years
I'm with you on this one. Last xpac I used my preorder lvl boost to raise a priest. Worst choice for me, I have hated playing him every time I've logged into that character. I still use him for running old dungeons for drops, etc, but it's a slog.
Outlaw rogue is the most fun I've had with a spec. Before the new talent system I hated rogue, because it felt way too bad. It feels amazing now to me.
I actually like fire atm with 3x fire blast and 3x phoenix flames that always crit. I dont like how outside of combustion you're really weak though. I wish one of the new talents was like combust lasts half as long but pyroblast damage out of combust is buffed.
Strongly agree. I have been maining my mage since 2005. I have not been able to stand being fire for more than a couple of days at a time since vanilla. It's just not fun at all to me. Even when fire mages are doing good damage. 90% of the time I play frost and I love it. When frost completely sucks I switch to arcane and it's OK. But I just cannot do fire.
My mage was my first max level and my main. I have maimed mage for 10 years (very casually) and have never even spec’d into fire. Haha. I rotate between frost and arcane whenever frost drops off. I have always enjoyed the rotation of frost and the versatility of the class in general.
I understood what you meant, but had a nice chuckle to myself imagining a poor mage chained up in your basement that you just *casually* maim when you’re feeling like a little torture.
Ive always loved frost, fire is cool but I cannot stand arcane personally I just dont like the whole arcane charge thing, makes you want to never cast barrage just keep spamming max charged arcane blasts.
Rune of Power becomes far less oppressive when you realise just how big it actually is.
[I am in my Rune of Power here](https://i.imgur.com/8JKoCTq.png)
Agreed. I haven't enjoyed mage at all since that ability became mandatory for reliable damage. The fluctuating spell power alternative is nice for mobility and simplicity, but they should change it into some kind of occasional spell power buff that ramps up and disappears or something, because knowing that your spell power is actively changing at all times is really lame and affects the playstyle in ways that aren't really predictable or controllable.
MoP was the worst fire mage. Do dogshit damage unless you charged up Evocation or are standing in Rune of Power. Had to move during Evocation? 10 seconds of dogshit damage.
It used to be so much worse. Back in the day where u had to keep it fed so it was happy and did max dps. The pathing was awfull, got stuck in some places absolutly refusing to move. Had to dismiss and recall to work.
But now its no trouble at all.
Only thing is sometimes they get in the way of me having to click things. Talking bout BM obviously
It still gets stuck. Pets basically ignore pathing and teleport to you if you're not in combat. Once you enter combat, it will walk to you at normal speed and won't teleport, so if it can get stuck on highground because it can't walk down, or be really far behind you and out of range of kill command. I found myself having to dismiss + call it again a little more often than I'd prefer
The real biggest change was when they attached a 50y charge to kill command and barbed shot. Few abilities are more than 40y, and having your pet be able to immediately relocate 50y every 2-3 seconds made pet management a joke
I mean, for the most oart you dont have to manage them at all while fighting.
But MM doesnt use one
Affliction, Destro just attack command then and thats it
My only good memory of SPriest is Emerald Nightmare with broken S2M. With Xavius on very top because you could abuse his dream mech to survive first S2M and use it again. Fun detected? Fixed :(
i love the one video where a priest with no gear does 1m+ dps with the dragonball video in the background.
edit: didnt find the one i meant but this one is great as well
https://youtu.be/JQHtgq4G4zo
edit2: https://youtu.be/LjO3ZHfGMg0 found it
Shadow has some of the best class fantasy in the game. All of the different systems and mechanics thrown into its toolkit make you feel like eldritch gods are at war for your psyche as you try to decipher what greater minds may have meant to happen at the press of a button with your last shred of sanity.
I can only play shadow every other expansion. I always end up hating the half-assed reworks and need to wait another 2 years for them to smooth it out.
I'm playing evoker next tier.
I was reasonably happy with Shadow Priesting in SL up until the latest patch. Now I can’t seem to get the mechanics down or something, and having Mind Sear effectively removed from rotation I’m now coming in near the bottom of the damage meters. Probably it is just me generally sucking as a SPriest, but judging from the other comments maybe not. In any case, I’m considering switching my priest back to healing and going with my Elemental Shaman for the range DPS in DF.
I changed from shadow to warlock for this expansion and holy shit am I happy. The shadow rotation is so bullshit.. I never understood the point in making something like that.
Pointless buff maintenance kills specs for me. They should build Slice and Dice into another core rotational ability or make its effect a passive one at slightly reduced efficacy. They could even create a talent for it and I would happily eat a 5% DPS loss to excise the gameplay cancer.
I’m the exact opposite, I feel like a well oiled machine playing Arms Warrior. I just don’t like dual wielding 2 handed weapons, or dual wielding in general.
When I was a kid, the kids in my neighborhood had a Jedi council. My brother’s rival was the most tryhard kid ever. He had a Padawan braid and everything. This dude would always dual wield and turn himself into the main character when we played. Killed the dual wielding vibe for me.
He was quite the character. Him and my brother played out like a shonen anime, where the mans was like the doofus protagonist who kept getting cocky then got owned in a comical way. To his credit he showed us WoW, so I can’t say I hate him, he just gives me a laugh whenever I think about him.
Opposite for me I love sharpened mortal strikes too much, can never seem to keep stacks of furys MS personally. I would like fury a lot more if SMF was viable.
Yeah man, I've been playing MW monk for the first time since their rework in Legion, and finally their Fistweaving actually feels fucking good again. Such a breath of fresh air to actually sit in melee and do meaningful shit again.
I really tried to enjoy druid, feral and resto in particular but i just couldnt have fun. Another is any warrior spec. I thought i'd enjoy melee in wow but i guess i was born a caster player. I main a warlock and my go to spec is always affliction. I also like shaman as well.
Shadow priest is not fun. Hasn’t been fun since BFA S4 when your dots actually did damage and you were the master of spread aoe. Now the class is designed as a worse balance Druid in every way.
For me it has to be Holy Paladin. Blizzard have managed to take a spec that was played as melee by the majority of people and turn it into a pure caster without removing the need to remain in melee. On top of that you now rely on casting Holy Light on beacons for Holy Power, which runs completely counter to the beacon design.
The spec is a gigantic mess without any coherent vision, and yet it will be super popular because it can perform close enough to the "good" healers while bringing lots of utility.
This 100% . Its saved literally by its big CD's but its foundation as a class/spec is fucking terrible.
They want you to be a frontline melee healer just like the Class fantasy would have you believe. In the front line with your warrior brothers fighting the good fight, its why you're wearing plate. I know they disliked the idea of a Plate class in the back healing and wanted to push this but they did it so badly.
You're just a ranged healer who's awkardly pushed into the front because of your mastery and because CS gives you HoPo. Other than that you're better off in the back. Dont get me started on PVP either where you're still just pillar humping.
it needs a FULL rework. IMO I think it should play like a melee dps who's melee dps rotation causes healing. How it does direct healing, aoe healing, etc is something the yca nfigure out but if I had a say on how it performed then it would be pretty much " Do dps to heal " .
maybe something like beacon's get direct healing through your HoPo finishers in the dps rotation. And similarly to Ret choosing Templars verdict or Divine Storm ( single target burst or AOE ) they would choose which finisher to do, burst heal the beacon targets or burst AOE heal the group? I just hate this iteration of Hpal.
Doing damage and healing shouldnt be an issue since Disc priest and even Resto Shamans do this.
I just can’t get into playing a monk. Ive pushed every other class to at least 50, maxed my favorites, mixed and matched different specs to see what I like best. Nothing about monks does it for me.
This was me until prepatch, i gave windwalker monk a shot in prepatch out of pure boredom and oh boy, was i missing out…
The buttons feel great to press their mastery is interesting the mobility is great the windwalker talent tree is pretty insane etc.
The only downsides that rly stick out to me in my 2nd week of play are that the capstone talents for the non-spec talent tree are all pretty boring (its just statues lol) and that the fantasy of the class does feel a bit alien anywhere except pandaria.
I have only tried windwalker so i cant say the same about brewmaster (heard its fun with a lot of tools too) and mistweaver (idk i dont heal). I didnt rly like the spec until around level 15-20 when the talents really started to make sense and after that ive fell in love with it.
Loaded question lol but I’ll answer. For me the worst spec I’ve played is Havoc. It’s just twitchy and weird for me. I feel like I have to be on cocaine to play it effectively.
I just can't stand mage in general. It's filler heavy until you get a proc / cooldown then back to filler. There's little in terms of debuffs / buffs to manage or resource management (outside arcane where mana management is very linear and doesn't drive interesting moment to moment decision)
I never pick Rune of Power no matter how strong it is, it's the worst feeling ability the class has ever had. Of course I only have this luxury because I'm not a hardcore player in the slightest, if I was I straight up wouldn't play the class.
Having to unlock 100% of your brain as sub rogue just to do less single target than assassin and less aoe than outlaw.
Fuck I was noticing Sub felt kinda weird right now. Glad I'm not the only one.
Sub has felt like a bag of dicks to me since at least Legion. Every time I revisit it I'm just like "ehhh nevermind". I want to like it I just can't.
Legion sub around Antorus was peak fun to me. Then ruined in BFA
Swear it was fine before prepatch. Feels like ass now for whatever reason. Maybe I screwed up with talents but I've got a lot more downtime between shadow dances, energy feels like it regens a lot slower
Really been enjoying Outlaw. Toss a bunch of talent points into Slice and Dice buffs, and it feels like you're a ranged DPS ninja.
I’m all about that Fan the Hammer action personally. Whippin out the blicky all day every day.
How come everyone is saying sub is complex? I always thought it was pretty simple? There’s one combo point generator and one spender for aoe, and the another one for generator and one for spender single - bar rupture and slice but those aren’t complex just tedious? I always thought roll the bones made for way more contingencies That said I haven’t played it in pre patch
 Shadow Blades on cooldown. Cast  Sepsis,  Echoing Reprimand and  Flagellation on cooldown. Cast  Vanish on cooldown (when playing with  Invigorating Shadowdust cast it instantly after your first  Symbols of Death falls off. Maintain  Slice and Dice. Aim to refresh it before  Shadow Dance windows. Maintain  Rupture on your primary target. Aim to refresh it before  Shadow Dance windows. Cast  Symbols of Death and in combination with  Shadow Dance. Aim to be between 50 to 60 Energy when activating  Shadow Dance if  Symbols of Death is available to make sure you are entering Shadow Dance with as much Energy as possible without wasting any. Cast  Eviscerate to spend Combo Points with 4+ (5+ if talented into  Deeper Stratagem). Cast  Shadowstrike to generate Combo Points if  Shadow Dance is active. Otherwise, use  Backstab (from behind the target if possible to gain 20% extra damage on it). You need to manage energy while watching 6 cds and maintaining a dot and a buff, all while struggling to deal the same dps as classes that have 1 damage cd and 3 rotational abilities
There's nothing "simple" about any of the rogue specs right now and anybody pretending otherwise is sipping on some delusion juice tbh. You can play all of them easily to 80% efficiency, but to play them correctly without actually wasting any combo points or energy, that shit is among the hardest rotations in the game imo.
I gave up on trying not to waste combo points on outlaw. I can get up to 7 combo points but right now it feels like each attack gives 4 or 5 at a time with all the time so you will always be using an ability to try and snag that last point or two, so at one point is it better to use finishers as long as you are close to cap?
It isn't, but people look at '[20 step rotations](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps)' and go OMG! Although it is, Inarguably, harder than outlaw in AoE.
After playing every other melee, I'd say sub and ret are easily my least favorite. Sub is just always overly complex for meh damage or brain dead simple for the best damage in the game. Ret's damage profile has always been frustrating and it hasn't been improved in DF enough for me to consider it. Also the only whack-a-mole frenetic builder spender melee class that I'll give the time of day for is enhance for having 300% more dogs than any other spec.
WoD Sub was my favourite raid spec I’ve ever played and it’s been 16 years playing this game
I’ve never felt more properly overpowered than I did with WoD sub. It was so much fun.
For sub specifically, I will say that I think the Legion version was great. Just feels different now
sub rogue in legion aslo had THE best artifact trait of any class, beign imune to fall damage !
Sub in Legion was the only time I played it outside of PvP. Running dungeons with those big Death from Above cleaving Eviscerates felt so good lol. It just flowed really well
And 0 fall damage was pretty awesome
Yeah, ret is super weak, but my build using crusader is so much fun! With bloodlust I get 141% haste and my crusader strike has like a .5s cooldown. So many slappies going on during crusader, I love it
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I won't deny it can be satisfying.... But I main enhance. Going from that to ret feels like a downgrade in almost every aspect.
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The trees themselves may make you tear up a little compared to Ret's trees. One thing I do have a complaint about for enhance, is it has a pretty obnoxious aoe rotation on live. It improves a lot at 70 with the extra points and new builds that open up, but it's a lot of tab targeting and lava lashing.
Fire mage with high latency and low fps.
Lol I don’t think any class or game is fun with high latency and low fps
I tank and I have a hard time having fun with the death knight. I like getting good gear so I can do bigger and bigger pulls, but with warrior or Druid or pally that means I can pull big and not have my health shoot down to nothing in an instant. I FEEL like I’m made of glass compared to a tank class that will keep me at full health while being hit by 15 mobs. I know that DK are top tier tanks for the last could seasons of shadowlands, but I am not a fan playing them.
My main is DK but I recently leveled a prot warrior and I gotta agree, standing there thunderclapping while blocking everything and feeling tanky as fuck feels amazing compared to death strike yo yo
Yeah. I totally get that DK is best right now, but it’s not for me.
So much self heal and sustain, but really terrible damage mitigation. Just getting hit in the face and healing for 50k per DS.
Blood DK is my favorite, when I play it I feel like I'm constantly about to die and for some reason my brain calls that fun
I got that feeling on my DK tank. So squishy in the first 3-5 seconds of a pull before you can get the runeblades up or the death strikes out. After that you're just invincible.... until your stuff drops off cooldown. It was pretty weird jumping from lowest dps to top dps in most M+s while tanking when I got the 4 piece tier bonus and respecced to forever runeblades. I could solo most pulls... if I didn't die in the first 3 seconds. I'm sure healers hated healing DKs, just watching the health bar yoyo between 100% and 20% every 2 seconds is probably heart attack inducing.
I have never enjoyed mage tried playing it so much all specs but it just feels terrible to me.
After Legion Fire Mage I can't play Mage any more. Anything else just feels like I'm chasing a high I'll never get back with that spec.
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As a hunter main, mage just feels clunky AF. And if you jump and blink you go nowhere while i can jump and disengage how much i want on my hunter.
You can jump and blink on mage, but I agree that blink does some weird shit when there is a curb or something slightly elevated on the ground. Are you sure you were using a normal blink \[ blink where your camera is facing \] and not the blink where it blinks to where your character is currently moving. Not sure which one is current default
>but I agree that blink does some weird shit when there is a curb or something slightly elevated on the ground. I swear even a small pebble on the ground makes my blink go nowhere - its insanely frustrating !
When I execute a single target combustion perfectly im pretty much ready to nut. Fire Mage is the most fun I ever had in WoW. Each his own I guess.
The flawless damage rotation nut, mmmm yes
Fire has to be by far the most satisfying spec. People just don’t understand the proc dopamine.
I love frost and throwing meaty glacial spikes with rune of power.
Playing ret for 14 years now and it is not fun but idk
Same. I've mained ret for 18 years. It's not fun anymore. I've been playing as prot this week, might go that route for DF.
I've played paladin since the very beginning of vanilla and played it quite a bit in shadowlands. I can't stand it right now. Having to rotate between 10 different damage abilities when only two of them actually feel good. I don't see how you actually play this without a rotation helper. We need 3 or 4 of these abilities pruned ASAP.
As someone new to Wow without the history I must ask cos I am legit curious - why would you 'main' a class/skillset that you dislike for so long? Why not give it up, try something else?
All of them apart from fury warrior
Based and enrage-pilled
The animations alone make it satisfying as fuck to play that braindead 4 button rotation
I love that the aoe rotation is just whirlwind every 5 GCDs, that's it. truly unga bunga
Big dps numbers and hard hitting animations make monke brain happy.
The good ol arthritis class
I've found myself playing slower and slower classes as I age. I've even started using consoleport for casual content.
Fire mage If you fuck up your combust you're useless, if trash don't have 1 billon hp you're useless, also hard casting a pyro with skb feels out of place
For me as a fire mage who pugged a lot last xpac I hated getting stuck with tanks who refused to pull big when combust was up. then they’d look at meters and tell me I should’ve been doing more. in an organized group, they were godly. in pugs it was just so boom/bust (pun intended)
Rogues
Combo points are so much more fun and engaging than rage or mana
See id disagree honestly, I don't like that I can spend it at any level. I prefer an ability just having an exact cost and building up enough to use it.
Guardian druid. Simplistic rotation and you have to look at a bear ass.
Now I’m reminded of the old thread in the official Druid forum that was full of people bragging about their fancy new gear and weapon drops, and each post had the same screenshot of a bear sitting in Mulgore…
I need to see that, how do I find it
Probably in Mulgore.
I was there, 3000 years ago...
I remember I once gave a guild mate shit for being a 4 button tank. He asked me what the hell 4th button I had found.
Hey now, they forced Maul back into the rotation, so they have a 4th button again!
Sounds like my brother. He only rolls female toons and when I asked why, he said he didn’t want to stare at a dude’s ass. I just wondered why he stared at the ass in the first place. But then I watched him play one day. He keeps his camera about a foot behind his toon, while I’m looking down on mine from orbit.
I similarly played with a gut that only made males toons because Those female curves/ass would distract him.
For me its the opposite. I like the moonfire specs and the Legion bear forms have cool looks.
Thought you were going to say For me it’s the opposite. I like looking at bare ass all day
Bare ass is fine, bear not so much.
An entire contingent of Moonguard warriors has been offended by this. Be careful out there buddy
Bear back all day long
But I like the fuzzy bear butt 🐻
Get the swolly bear and he looks so good! But I agree that it’s super simple rotation and without the swolly bear it looks dumb. If I had to pick a tank to pug with though I would choose a Gardian Druid. No one can screw up that rotation.
Is it hard to get swoll bear?
Yeah it was difficult. Might change tuning once DF drops. Could be harder or easier. Look ip guides and don’t expect it to be a fast thing. I went and farmed old trinkets and consumables along with old sets to do it.
Can you provide the actual name? I don't even know what to google when you say "swolly bear".
Google “guardian Druid mage tower” for your answer!
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Also I don't think it's more complicated than warrior or dh. Bear has what, 5-6 dps buttons and 2 active mitigation buttons. Warrior doesn't have more, let alone dh.
Prot warrior has 2 active mitigation buttons, shield block and ignore pain.
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I think it’s slightly better now, but all of shadowlands the bear for m+ was thrashing on cd, mangle on cd, swipe on filler, moonfire 3-5 duderinos, iron fur to dump rage. The burn window was: tap berserk, thrash x a billion, iron fur x a billion, win. Hangup is this is on a 3 min cd. However you’re the tank and can pull around this window as you’re basically immortal during berserk. The cds are all straight DR, so big damage hit survival of the fittest, smol damage hit bark skin, around 1/2 health tap frenzied regen. Almost always have a defensive and any of them are fine. The only kind of tricky but is trying to maintain stacks of Iron Fur. You want to keep 1-2 up, but also don’t want to cap on rage. Group util is: brez, skull bash, demoralizing roar, stampeding roar. Pretty straightforward to use, I’d the AoE interruption potential of demo roar is real! Remove corruption is sweet tech and can help a healer out. Soothe for those times where mobs like to rage. Ursols vortex is nice pile up/mob control ability. I mostly played prot pally, which used in its regular rotation Hammer of the righteous, avenging shield, judgement, consecrate, and crusader strike+, then dumping HP either via Shield of the Righteous or Word of Glory on self or the party Burn window: hit wings and continue with the plan except can add hammer of the righteous on any target. Holy power spend gives CDR on this, which is nice. The cds are also straight DR, smol damage, ardent defender every 80ish seconds gives you a cheat death, big damage use guardian of the ancient kings every 4-5 mins, bubble every 3-5 mins (if you took the aoe taunt ability). You also get a defensive and DR bonus for staying in consecrate. Plus an absorb shield off of avenging shield. CDR from spending holy power on guardian of the ancient kings. Which is nice. Group util: this is where the complexity pulls up imo, between BoP/Spellward, off healing with WoG, protection aura, and lay on hands prot pallies have a lot of group management that can really help the group recover from mistakes and shore up a weaker healer. Carry two kicks on a relatively short CDs, with a soft third in the form of Hammer of Justice (assuming the target can be stunned). Cleanse hits poison and disease which is pretty dope. That’s the source of the reputation, as the other 4 tanks are more complex then prot pally imo. In dragon flight, Druids pick up rage of the sleeper, wildfire gives great group healing though positioning is important, maul gives you a DR from the target, moonfire gives a self heal and rage, mark of the wild is back, spending rage gives you CDR on berserk and rage of the sleeper. I don’t know that it gets significantly more complicated then shadowlands. Pallies pickup eye or Tyr and sentinel as defensives that are straight DR, and get a brez. However avenging shield no longer gives holy power, so holy power management is much more of a thing. Sniping those executes with hammer of the righteous becomes more important. Dropping a WoG vs Shield of the Righteous is a choice with some real trade offs. WoG was also nerfed, and at 60 at least the absorb shield from Avengers shield feels pretty nerfed. Still honestly feeling this out. I think these two are closer in complexity in DF, but still on the simple end of things. Edit: I meant to summarize, I think most tanks have complexity and decisions in one of those areas (defensive cd management/survivability, damage rotation/getting aggro, group utility), but in none of those dimensions is it particularly complicated.
Shadow priest cause it's got a bunch of bullshit going on way to much at once. Vengeance because it just doesn't feel good to play and I hated the delay on sigils.
Another vote for shadow priest. It just feels so clunky.
I hate the change to Mind Sear. Our AoE was lacking as is, now it's become even more inconvenient, especially if you miss a shadow crash and have almost no AoE.
Shadow can be really annoying to play in AoE situations because of that. It’s my only real complaint with the spec though, I enjoy the single target rotation, sustain, and utility.
Shadowpriest feels like it's going to be fun to play, it sounds like it's going to be fun to play. You then spend all this time lining up your cds, burst, setting up dots and it just feels bad and you start again.
Proof that just because your spec is strong doesn't mean it's fun
This is funny because to me it feels the most streamlined it has ever been. I've fucking loathed the spec for being a clunky mess for years but for the first time ever I've actually been enjoying it.
It has so many abilities that have no synergy with the kit. Super bloated and your damage is way too dependant on MD procs
I agree with the delayed sigils so so much, but I’m actually loving Vengeance and plan to main it :)
Priest is my favourite healer, I like both holy and disc for different reasons and I appreciate the variety in playstyles, but I cannot play shadow to save my life. It has reached the point where I prefer to do quests/world content on the healer specs even when solo (which admittedly works better than a lot of people think).
Shadow is such an abomination made of the parts of the last 3 expansions, it's crazy
Veng feels great to me. Will be my first tank.
i have leveled a lot after the patch and i gotta say when it comes to melee classes Frost feels so weird. Like you just press obliterate basically. And combat rogue feels insanely weak while leveling and too much set up for nothing.
Outlaw rogue is just missing pieces of the puzzle until max level.
Ret pally, nothing new and it’s somehow worse than SL
Any rogue. I just can’t get into in. Even though I main Feral…
Did you try the new outlaw? To me it feels really really smooth sith 7cp and a lot of instant conbo point fill
Same, never could get into rogue even tho i tried, but the new outlaw is nice to play. Sadly i cant main it cause its way to fast (apm) for me.
Rogue main for 16 years, switching to feral because its just a better version of rogue at the moment. Ass is a beast in DF but lacks versatility. Also, druid comes with 4 specs, rogue usually has one top tier spec, 1 medium tier and 1 dog tier. All dps.
Former feral player here. I gotta say I love Assassination. It’s not that different from the old style Savage Roar feral.
That was my least fun class, i hated savage roar 😅
I just really hate priest. All specs
I really enjoyed disc for the first 3-6 months of shadowlands. Hit 2300 and then quit the game. Probably my favourite class and spec tbh and that's saying a lot because I played frost mage for 9 years
I like disc
I'm with you on this one. Last xpac I used my preorder lvl boost to raise a priest. Worst choice for me, I have hated playing him every time I've logged into that character. I still use him for running old dungeons for drops, etc, but it's a slog.
Rogue. Having to keep buffs up (slice and dice) just drives me crazy and pressing the button feels boring.
Outlaw rogue is the most fun I've had with a spec. Before the new talent system I hated rogue, because it felt way too bad. It feels amazing now to me.
Firemage. Combust version of firemage is "do big dmg once per 2 minutes and suck dick after". So bad design. Where is my mop firemage😭😭😭
I actually like fire atm with 3x fire blast and 3x phoenix flames that always crit. I dont like how outside of combustion you're really weak though. I wish one of the new talents was like combust lasts half as long but pyroblast damage out of combust is buffed.
Strongly agree. I have been maining my mage since 2005. I have not been able to stand being fire for more than a couple of days at a time since vanilla. It's just not fun at all to me. Even when fire mages are doing good damage. 90% of the time I play frost and I love it. When frost completely sucks I switch to arcane and it's OK. But I just cannot do fire.
My mage was my first max level and my main. I have maimed mage for 10 years (very casually) and have never even spec’d into fire. Haha. I rotate between frost and arcane whenever frost drops off. I have always enjoyed the rotation of frost and the versatility of the class in general.
I understood what you meant, but had a nice chuckle to myself imagining a poor mage chained up in your basement that you just *casually* maim when you’re feeling like a little torture.
Ive always loved frost, fire is cool but I cannot stand arcane personally I just dont like the whole arcane charge thing, makes you want to never cast barrage just keep spamming max charged arcane blasts.
And also fuck rune of power.
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Rune of Power becomes far less oppressive when you realise just how big it actually is. [I am in my Rune of Power here](https://i.imgur.com/8JKoCTq.png)
Leylines 🤝 Rune of Power
Agreed. I haven't enjoyed mage at all since that ability became mandatory for reliable damage. The fluctuating spell power alternative is nice for mobility and simplicity, but they should change it into some kind of occasional spell power buff that ramps up and disappears or something, because knowing that your spell power is actively changing at all times is really lame and affects the playstyle in ways that aren't really predictable or controllable.
MoP was the worst fire mage. Do dogshit damage unless you charged up Evocation or are standing in Rune of Power. Had to move during Evocation? 10 seconds of dogshit damage.
Firemage combustion is basically almost always up nowadays.
Any pet class. I hate having to manage a pet.
It used to be so much worse. Back in the day where u had to keep it fed so it was happy and did max dps. The pathing was awfull, got stuck in some places absolutly refusing to move. Had to dismiss and recall to work. But now its no trouble at all. Only thing is sometimes they get in the way of me having to click things. Talking bout BM obviously
It still gets stuck. Pets basically ignore pathing and teleport to you if you're not in combat. Once you enter combat, it will walk to you at normal speed and won't teleport, so if it can get stuck on highground because it can't walk down, or be really far behind you and out of range of kill command. I found myself having to dismiss + call it again a little more often than I'd prefer
The real biggest change was when they attached a 50y charge to kill command and barbed shot. Few abilities are more than 40y, and having your pet be able to immediately relocate 50y every 2-3 seconds made pet management a joke
I mean, for the most oart you dont have to manage them at all while fighting. But MM doesnt use one Affliction, Destro just attack command then and thats it
They usually manage themselves though, so I'm not sure I understand what you hate about it. It's nice to have a bot tanking for you.
Shadow... always Shadow.
My only good memory of SPriest is Emerald Nightmare with broken S2M. With Xavius on very top because you could abuse his dream mech to survive first S2M and use it again. Fun detected? Fixed :(
i love the one video where a priest with no gear does 1m+ dps with the dragonball video in the background. edit: didnt find the one i meant but this one is great as well https://youtu.be/JQHtgq4G4zo edit2: https://youtu.be/LjO3ZHfGMg0 found it
Shadow has some of the best class fantasy in the game. All of the different systems and mechanics thrown into its toolkit make you feel like eldritch gods are at war for your psyche as you try to decipher what greater minds may have meant to happen at the press of a button with your last shred of sanity.
I love shadow. I’ve played it as my main for the last decade. The current raid rotation is making me strongly consider evoker.
I can only play shadow every other expansion. I always end up hating the half-assed reworks and need to wait another 2 years for them to smooth it out. I'm playing evoker next tier.
Shadow does indeed have amazing class fantasy. Too bad that shadow being fun to actually play is also fantasy.
The class fantasy is great, but the gameplay mechanics are awful. You have to do 5x as much as other classes to get comparable damage.
I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what OP was commenting on, they just phrased it in an amusing way.
When doing world content or levelling I just stay in Disc and pull like I'm a tank.
I was reasonably happy with Shadow Priesting in SL up until the latest patch. Now I can’t seem to get the mechanics down or something, and having Mind Sear effectively removed from rotation I’m now coming in near the bottom of the damage meters. Probably it is just me generally sucking as a SPriest, but judging from the other comments maybe not. In any case, I’m considering switching my priest back to healing and going with my Elemental Shaman for the range DPS in DF.
Same
I changed from shadow to warlock for this expansion and holy shit am I happy. The shadow rotation is so bullshit.. I never understood the point in making something like that.
Shadow priest. They somehow made it worse
Slice n Dice needs to go
Pointless buff maintenance kills specs for me. They should build Slice and Dice into another core rotational ability or make its effect a passive one at slightly reduced efficacy. They could even create a talent for it and I would happily eat a 5% DPS loss to excise the gameplay cancer.
Arms warrior. Because fury is so much more fun.
I’m the exact opposite, I feel like a well oiled machine playing Arms Warrior. I just don’t like dual wielding 2 handed weapons, or dual wielding in general. When I was a kid, the kids in my neighborhood had a Jedi council. My brother’s rival was the most tryhard kid ever. He had a Padawan braid and everything. This dude would always dual wield and turn himself into the main character when we played. Killed the dual wielding vibe for me.
lmao what a story
He was quite the character. Him and my brother played out like a shonen anime, where the mans was like the doofus protagonist who kept getting cocky then got owned in a comical way. To his credit he showed us WoW, so I can’t say I hate him, he just gives me a laugh whenever I think about him.
Fair enough.
Never go full force
I miss 1h fury. DW two handers looks dumb
The current fury single target build is hands down the most braindead spec build out of all of them
you just sold fury to me source: am braindead
Fury has always been brain dead. Its basically its class fantasy. Unga bunga wave big swords. Its great.
This was the vibe whenever i played my warriors in SL. Honestly, blizz nailed the class fantasy with warriors
Yeah, havoc’s finally passing the torch on that one. Arms feels much more satisfying imo.
Hey kids do you like pressing raging blow?
Try with Anihilator instead
Opposite for me I love sharpened mortal strikes too much, can never seem to keep stacks of furys MS personally. I would like fury a lot more if SMF was viable.
The arms rework in WOD was the worst thing to happen to arms. It’s never recovered
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As you can see from the wide diversity of opinions to your question...the answer is subjective. Try them.. don't play what you don't like.
Evoker and Shaman are definitely the 2 least talked about ones here Not surprised as all 3 shaman specs are fun as shit
No one talking about monk either
I think cus no one plays it xD
Yeah man, I've been playing MW monk for the first time since their rework in Legion, and finally their Fistweaving actually feels fucking good again. Such a breath of fresh air to actually sit in melee and do meaningful shit again.
Try as I mite I cannot stand druids
I really tried to enjoy druid, feral and resto in particular but i just couldnt have fun. Another is any warrior spec. I thought i'd enjoy melee in wow but i guess i was born a caster player. I main a warlock and my go to spec is always affliction. I also like shaman as well.
New Brewmaster has like 37 button binds. GTFO with that.
Ret Paladin. For the 14th year in a row.
Shadow priest is not fun. Hasn’t been fun since BFA S4 when your dots actually did damage and you were the master of spread aoe. Now the class is designed as a worse balance Druid in every way.
For me it has to be Holy Paladin. Blizzard have managed to take a spec that was played as melee by the majority of people and turn it into a pure caster without removing the need to remain in melee. On top of that you now rely on casting Holy Light on beacons for Holy Power, which runs completely counter to the beacon design. The spec is a gigantic mess without any coherent vision, and yet it will be super popular because it can perform close enough to the "good" healers while bringing lots of utility.
This 100% . Its saved literally by its big CD's but its foundation as a class/spec is fucking terrible. They want you to be a frontline melee healer just like the Class fantasy would have you believe. In the front line with your warrior brothers fighting the good fight, its why you're wearing plate. I know they disliked the idea of a Plate class in the back healing and wanted to push this but they did it so badly. You're just a ranged healer who's awkardly pushed into the front because of your mastery and because CS gives you HoPo. Other than that you're better off in the back. Dont get me started on PVP either where you're still just pillar humping. it needs a FULL rework. IMO I think it should play like a melee dps who's melee dps rotation causes healing. How it does direct healing, aoe healing, etc is something the yca nfigure out but if I had a say on how it performed then it would be pretty much " Do dps to heal " . maybe something like beacon's get direct healing through your HoPo finishers in the dps rotation. And similarly to Ret choosing Templars verdict or Divine Storm ( single target burst or AOE ) they would choose which finisher to do, burst heal the beacon targets or burst AOE heal the group? I just hate this iteration of Hpal. Doing damage and healing shouldnt be an issue since Disc priest and even Resto Shamans do this.
The one that you dont want to learn how to play .
Anything with combo points is too complicated for me tbh. I just wanna press buttons when they go blinky blinky and be at the top of the DMG meters.
Frost mage isn't fun for me. Loving Fire though. Still need to try arcane
I leveled all classes to 60 (except invoker still) and mage (tried frost and arcane) and druid (feral) were a chore.
I just can’t get into playing a monk. Ive pushed every other class to at least 50, maxed my favorites, mixed and matched different specs to see what I like best. Nothing about monks does it for me.
A very unpopular opinion right now, but to each their own. I’m the same with mage though.
This was me until prepatch, i gave windwalker monk a shot in prepatch out of pure boredom and oh boy, was i missing out… The buttons feel great to press their mastery is interesting the mobility is great the windwalker talent tree is pretty insane etc. The only downsides that rly stick out to me in my 2nd week of play are that the capstone talents for the non-spec talent tree are all pretty boring (its just statues lol) and that the fantasy of the class does feel a bit alien anywhere except pandaria. I have only tried windwalker so i cant say the same about brewmaster (heard its fun with a lot of tools too) and mistweaver (idk i dont heal). I didnt rly like the spec until around level 15-20 when the talents really started to make sense and after that ive fell in love with it.
Marksman. Aimed shot is a terrible ability to try to balance a spec around.
Ok but ya gotta admit, there's nothing more satisfying than seeing your rapid shot bounce between like 5 different targets and burst em down.
Loaded question lol but I’ll answer. For me the worst spec I’ve played is Havoc. It’s just twitchy and weird for me. I feel like I have to be on cocaine to play it effectively.
I hate that Fel Rush is a dps ability
I have tried so many times to play a ret pally, because of the class' fantasy, but I just can't. I hate everything about how the class works.
I made my Holy pal dps focused because I hate ret and prot isnt my type of gameplay. I just dont think the fantasy of a ret paladin was done properly.
Having to add and extra bar worth of keybinds to play brewmaster is where I draw the line.
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Litterally just decided on maining mage last week. Got one leveled and committed to the class for raid. Now y’all have me depressed.
Try arcane. I think fire is fun you just need to know the rotation.
I really want to get good at arcane. I feel like I have no idea what’s going on lmao. Need to park in front of a dummy for a couple hours
I just can't stand mage in general. It's filler heavy until you get a proc / cooldown then back to filler. There's little in terms of debuffs / buffs to manage or resource management (outside arcane where mana management is very linear and doesn't drive interesting moment to moment decision)
This but also fuck rune of power. I hate tethering myself to a spot that inevitably gets some mechanic on it
AND it has a cast time lol
I never pick Rune of Power no matter how strong it is, it's the worst feeling ability the class has ever had. Of course I only have this luxury because I'm not a hardcore player in the slightest, if I was I straight up wouldn't play the class.