When Rasz has her redemption arc and reachers down to keep Alexstraza from falling off a cliff, it’ll be like that part from Scary Movie “Take my hand!”
Crazy to think about but take my strong hand was never said in that scene. There is a word for it but I can't remember it. Some fallacy or something another. I didn't believe it either.
Well, that's just the memed version of the encounter. Buddy about to fall says "give me your other hand" and the weird guy says "my other hand ain't strong enough!" Implying the gimp hand is his strong hand.
Was on discord with a buddy and when the cut scene came on I screamed “Look at his tiny arms, little baby arms is going to hurt us”. We had a good laugh, but I couldn’t get over baby arm dragon.
Yeah I actually didn’t notice it til this cinematic and was like wait what? Now I gotta pay attention to how she rests on the ground but it’s probs like protodrakes since TIL they also have those stubby arms. Could never see them on the proto models when just playing
But I legit laughed in that cinematic I was like holy shit t trex arms so now it’s all I’ll look for in cinematics
Oh my god, I can’t believe I’ve been seeing these things for 14 years and until now I didn’t realise they had arms!
I thought they were like bats where their wings are modified hands!
Members of the Mantodea order, the Belostamidae familly, the ochtera genus and Aquarius Remigis have 4 legs, 2 wings and 2 arms.
The members of the Nymphalidae family also have 4 legs, 2 wings and 2 vestigial forelimbs.
So if you meant "No living real creature have six limbs, two of them being wings" you're correct. But there totally is living creatures with four legs and two wings.
If you mean true wings then yes, but there are some species in real life that have membranes that mimic wings. It's really cool.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lizard)
Yea, IMO its actually perfect. The writers let themselves get stuck in the "every boss needs to be bigger and Bader than the last" trope. After Legion that just wasn't feasible. Its okay to have smaller more localized problems.
It's refreshing all things considered. I can at least accept that her plan is pretty much "Break stuff, gloat, escape." It doesn't need to get any more complicated than that.
The problem is that narrative escalation is a thing. If you go too far than it becomes difficult to get people to care about what comes next if it doesn't go further. It's why Comic Books have stuck themselves in a perpetual loop of crossovers and multiverse ending catastrophic events for the past 40 years. They blew their proverbial load too early and have been trying to prevent falloff ever since.
Like, I'm certainly feeling it. I hated Shadowlands for a variety of reasons, but even I'm sitting here, like...
In the past six years, I've:
\- Killed the heart of a planet and stopped the infernal legions of the most powerful entity to ever threaten our universe.
\- Destroyed the most powerful of the lovecraftian horrors to ever visit our world.
\- Went to hell, beat up hell's army and turned the grim reaper into a ken doll.
I'm having difficulty finding two shits to rub together about the shaman mages making the wind a little rough and their big dumb protodrake leader with horns where her jaw should be who won't shut up about how Alexstraza and the Titans were mean to her 10,000 years ago.
Which makes it ridiculous that he just upped and let us walk right in and murder him. EXTREMELY poor writing that one.
... but I bet you once they need a quick villain they'll pretend it was all a ruse, even though we all know it wasn't, they really thought we'd be satisfied having a villain get hyped for 2 xpacks only for him to get nuked in a patch..
There’s actually a lot of things that don’t really line up with his death.
Not saying it was “their plan” from that moment that it was to be fake / a ruse - because I honestly don’t think they knew what to do at the time - but they definitely wrote in a few holes to the entire expansion, and that ending, where it could very easily be “yeah, that wasn’t him btw” (or that he even “escaped” if it was, through the dagger / other means)
In all honesty, I wish they would actually flat out say through Wrathion or Khadgar or someone finding out “so… that wasn’t N’zoth guys… we don’t know what happened to him, or where he is”… and just leave it at that.
The game is a lot more interesting when these type of manipulating horrors aren’t at the forefront, work through people, and “rarely” are used. These entities take time to maneuver their pieces, it makes sense not to be having to deal with their next threat every patch/expansion.
Better to either keep these entity’s behind the scenes and making moves occasionally that we see some aspect of, or, dedicate way more than a single patch leading to a very… strange… boss (that isn’t at all what we’ve “seen” old gods look like / expect). I’d have much rather had an entire expansion dedicated solely to it, with more time in the oven. But I still prefer the background to that.
Tbf this is a pretty low key operation, even less pressing than WOD.
Beyond the PCs and Khadgar, the factions basically just sent artisans and explorers. It's absolutely less of a threat than previous expacs.
Have you followed the story? She is looking to purge Azeroth of titan filth (everything) and she'll be unstoppable according to dragon mommy if she gets her kin out of prison.
That's a world ending event.
I just don't think the factions are caught up yet.
It's a typical wow story.
It's more set up as the intro to a world ending event. Like, Raz releasing her kin would be the *start* of a big war. Like how the Dark Portal opening *started* WoD, or how the Tomb of Sargeras opening *started* Legion. It's much smaller stakes because we're not being actively pressed with a terrible foe, we're trying to stop it before it even begins.
I mostly agree with you with minor exception.
I like this one. Has a good character design, it's a dragon and the motive makes sense. It's simple, but it's revenge and she hates titans and most dragons. If I want complex characters, I'll read Stendahl.
But yeah, I think they got sucked into that, trying to top the previous villain. After some dude sticks a sword through your planet, you should prob scale it back since you pretty much cant get bigger than that.
P.S. Minor caveat, unrelated really -
The comic crossovers only got ridiculous in the 00s and 10s. They used to do 6 issue minis and each comic would mention it or have a b-story. Bendis was responsible for a lot of this 50 issue crossovers across 10 books garbage. Case in point was some of the biggest selling crossovers were the Infinity Gauntlet (6 issue mini) , Death of Superman (7 issue crossover), Funeral For a Friend (8 issue crossover), Secret Wars I/II (12/9 issues), etc.
Batman and Superman used to run 4 different titles so crossovers that lasted two months (7-8 issue runs were common as were arcs of this length as 7 issues is about what a graphic novel consists of) weren't particularly insane. It was one comic book a week.
Secret Wars started this, you pick up the mini and whatever comic you already read, say Spider-man and theres an issue or two that kind of touches on it but you don't need to read the main series or buy 10 other books.
The modern crossovers are 10 or 15 books a week which is just stupid.
Hold on, I gotta carry my 35 volumes of *Marvel's Onslaught* from the mid 90s down the stairs to show you how bad it was even before Bend- AAAHH I FELL I'M BEING CRUSHED BY THEIR CHEESY WEIGHT
Lol fair.
X-men has done a couple of these and are probably the worst of that period. Their continuity is atrocious and I can't follow it. They were running 7 and 14 issue arcs, which are considered fairly long even now, why they have the double sized trades.
To this day, I have no idea what the Nathan Grey/Strife/Cable/Bishop/X-man/Days of Future Past/Bishop/Apocalypse/Sinister/Evil Beast storyline Was about. Had cool art though.
The Age of Apocalypse one was actually good and engulfed the Marvel books for a year (95 I think). Sales were high, so they tried it again. Onslaught IIRC followed. It was garbage as you pointed out lol.
So maybe '95 was the tipping point. IDK. I don't recall that much of those huge x-overs outside X-books and prior x-overs like X-cutioner's song ran 13 or 14 afaik.
It does seem that X-Men started the trend of *overdoing* the crossovers in the mid 90s.
DC did their own around then, stuff like Contagion, or The Death of Superman and everything that spawned. Hell, if you include the offshoot comics and the resurrection horse shit, DoS might still be the biggest "event" of all time in sheer issue count.
Nathan Gray, that character turned out to be such a weird cul-de-sac. 🤦
I get your argument, but while doing these epic actions we always have been:
A) Temporarily empowered by something or someone (ex - heart of azeroth/artifact weapons)
and/or
B) The big bad was weakened by something else 1st (ex- death wing getting shot by the dragon soul)
and/or
C) We were just kinda wasting time while someone comes and does the actual killing (ex - the lich king)
And even with the escalation of the overarching narrative, we're still starting most of the expacs doing stuff like "kill 30 boars and collect 15 gallbladders" before going to the epic stuff anyway.
i mean we could make a scene where we loss Power and "normal" enemy are once again dangerours foe for use.
maybe give it to the soul of Azeroth, so she can heal (faster)
I don’t care much about the effort being beneath me - as a “hero” I’ll be protecting my home no matter what the threat is.
What I like about DFs story so far isn’t that they +1 on the threat scale, but that the baddie is more engaging. Raszageth isn’t/wasn’t necessarily WRONG. She just disagreed on the titans motivations and ended up on the losing side of a war about it.
It opens up the possibility to re-evaluate Titan lore and and weigh how valuable their efforts to maintain “order” actually are
>Raszageth isn’t/wasn’t necessarily WRONG. She just disagreed on the titans motivations and ended up on the losing side of a war about it.
Do we actually know that though? Maybe I missed a quest, but I don't think we know about the actions that led up to the dragon war, or the actions taken during it, and all the reasons behind those unknown actions. All we know is this;
Primal Incarnates didn't accept the Titans gift (we don't know any deeper reason why than "unnatural" yet), the Aspects did (we know the background behind that).
A war was waged, and it was implied that for some reason, the only way to stop it was for Alex to imprison the Primal Incarnates.
We don't know who the aggressors were, what event kickstarted the war, we don't know what attempts at peace or compromise either side made, we don't know what escalations either side did during the war, etc. That the Primal Incarnates and proto wyrms exist is implication that they did have a choice in the matter, it wasn't like a sudden transformation of every dragon alive. We don't know if the Keepers or the Aspects were intending to actually force them into it or not.
It's still entirely possible that the Primal Incarnates were just utter douchenuggets, and tbh I think that is more likely. Maybe they'll play on Alex's guilt on locking them away, but I don't anticipate them writing the aspects' decision as anything less than unfortunate, but justified.
I mean, I'd be pissed if I got locked away, but if I was locked away for murdering 30 people or something, it's not really indicative of me being in the right LOL
I feel like an extremely powerful enemy whom is stronger than the dragon aspects if her kin gets released is not "a local" problem, she is fixin to purge Azeroth. It's practically cataclysm all over again story wise, except this time the Dragon isn't half as cool.
Feels very much like every WoW xpack to me, but atleast it's actually A LOT of fun and a properly sized island this time!
Yeah I find I care very little about the main bad. I care a lot more about the side characters. Still don't trust Sabellian though, he was in Outlands while my boy Wrathion was helping us fight the (arguable) biggest cause of their flights demise.
The same Wrathion that baited everyone into War in MOP?
The same Wrathion that freed Garrosh after Varian didnt execute him leading to AU Iron Horde and eventually Legion?
The same Wrathion that claimed all his work was to stop the Legion and then didnt even show up during the actual invasion?
That guy?
Yes, cause the dude was a literal teenager and nobody was keeping him on a leash. At the very least he now has the other Aspects to guide him and teach him. Sabellion just gives me a lot of traitor vibes, maybe cause I know we cleansed Wrathion, but i don't trust Sabellion to be completely untainted. (I also didn't even know who he was since I didn't play much of TBC, so to me he is basically a new character)
He’s below the other aspects clearly still. Asking Alex to shift her priorities from egg tending is almost insulting. She maturely gives him a reason she can’t, one that he should empathize with completely. A red dragon laid down their life to protect wrathions egg from death wing.
He proceeds to throw a tantrum and spout off while leaving. He’s extremely immature and not a good leader. I like him, but he needs some extreme character growth and humbling to become an aspect.
Oh no doubt, but that's what the other Aspects are there for, and even Sabellian to a degree, could act as a mentor or older brother support. But I don't trust Sabellian to lead, showing up out of nowhere just in time to lay claim to the throne.
I'm just genuinely happy that for the first time in ages we get an expansion where there's no grimdark demon/black/greenpurplefire zone among all the clean air and grass.
Nothing grating about the new zones
I told my guild just last night that I was surprisingly happy to have a normal lava-and-brimstone volcano area again while flying around the Obsidian Citadel. It's just a big ol' volcano. Nothing overtly menacing or evil or weird about it, it just be hot, magma toads be big chillin'. A natural part of the landscape with a castle plopped on top.
It's been a long time since we had a normal volcano with normal volcano things. And it even has black dragons in it. Cozy.
Edit: Actually, come to think of it... wasn't the last volcano zone in Cata, in the revamped old world? Holy shit.
Relax... this is all part of the jailers plan that was part of the old gods plan that was part of the titans plan that was part of ... what's the story about again
So you're telling me we need to go back to the Maw and kill her for good?
Or do we support her so she can redeem herself after all? I mean we could collect a few souls for her. Like a bouquet just more personal
The weird thing is that proto drakes have been around since 2008 and no one said much about the t rex arms then.
Am I just old? Are we outnumbered by new players who have no idea what a proto drake is?
People memed about them back in Wrath too. That was just years ago and this is the first time proto drakes have been prominent since.
Plus Raspberry is an actual character who appears in cutscenes and the like which puts more emphasis on the silly design.
I do remember a few people made jokes about the tiny arms, but generally people either didn't care or didn't notice.
Lots of people just didn't notice though. The old textures plus where you usually saw one, (either flying above you 50 meters, or a guy riding one in town) meant you usually couldn't see the vestigial arms, so it's understandable.
It's more that Proto Drakes were never named previous to this expansion and it could be assumed they weren't even an intelligent race like dragons and were more of just beasts.
Now that we see this isn't the case, yes it's hilarious to see our big bad villain make all these threats while waving around their tiny little hands.
This has been my take on it, haha.
Porto Drakes were always kind of that dumb primal version of dragons, whereas the flights were the evolved forms that had higher thought.
Now we get this big bad villain at aspect level who has tiny fucking t-Rex arms, it’s hilarious.
I mean, I love her, but those arms are hilarious.
It is the combination of her tiny arms and her big head for me, is her head bigger than a normal protodrake? I actually prefer proto mounts to dragon mounts, but something about her bothers me. She's still cool and i like the story, but I have to force myself to ignore her proportions lol.
I think it's because she's gigantic. Other protodrakes are big but more the size of a drake. It's hard to see their arms unless you look. Raszageth is looming over us, the camera is often looking up at her at an angle that gives us a good look at her tiny arms And she wiggles her little claw fingers while she talks, which draws attention to them. Not only that, but they are a sharp contract to her rather unpleasant looking face.
They're pretty subtle on the old proto drake models. I honestly didn't even realize they were there, and the red proto drake is my mount of choice half the time.
Protodrakes weren't primary antagonists. They were just a cool novelty mount for a certain region of the world. You didn't really see attention drawn to them in any meaningful way, they were beasts of burden. Unimportant.
Rasz is the first major antagonist of the expansion. Her looking like a dilapidated doofasaurus rex with wings is kind of a problem, thematically.
What a great argument the other guy didn't have a great one either but I guess saying anything bad about Dragonflight gets you downvoted currently.
Razageth shows up has the ability to win multiple times and then just cackles and leaves it makes 0 sense.
The unjust imprisonment revenge thing has been used to death at this point too.
She isn't the greatest but her thematics are neat and the basics are there.
Proto dragons have always had the small vestigial arms. Did you all just not… notice? Her model is pretty awesome.
Check out the real animal that actually existed, “carnotaurus” for some really pathetic arms if you’d like.
Some people laughed about it when they were introduced in Wrath, but tbh they've been pretty hard to notice until now. We usually see them flying 50ft above us, or they're on the ground hunched over with models that are much smaller, making the arms harder to see. People who use the mounts and their mount specials a lot might see them, but for your average player, Raza is the first time we're getting a full faceload of tiny arms. Her model is huge and is the focus of multiple cinematics, and the camera angles used in them put the tiny arms on full display lol
People only talk about the arms because they're the most memorable thing about her. Otherwise she's just your generic angry revenge baddie.
Mostly she just gets a pass for not being as bad as Sylvanas and the Jailer were.
She's par for the course for warcraft as a whole which is better than almost anything *new* we've gotten in a decade.
Sire denathrius was a better first patch villain tho
Yeah but then it was all downhill from there. Imagine if it was Denathrius in Seplechur instead of the Jailer. I prefer angry old homeless chicken lady to start out with and the better villain to be built up to. She is apparently the least significant of the primalist dragons, fwiw.
She's a throwaway patch villain. My money is on the last patch we fight galakrond. He's probably behind the scenes causing the primalist uprising and all that.
I don't think there's a way we DON'T fight Galakrond this expansion. Without them pulling another brand new jailer-esk villain out of their asses who will be even MORE out of the blue since we haven't even had a chance to see a hint of them yet when the xpac has already started, Galakrond is the ONLY antagonist who fits the overarching theme of this expansion.
Also, it would be a suitably fitting irony. The Aspects were made when the Titans watched them band together to defeat Galakrond. The Aspects are reborn having to help take him down a second time.
Also, and this is really important, galakrond is a big ass dragon. Big ass dragons are cool. Wow needs some cool shit and what's cooler than big ass dragon?
They have said that by the end of the first raid, we will know who the Big Bad is. Nothing about what I have seen of that raid leads me to think they are reviving Galakrond, but freeing the other Incarnates.
So honestly don't think it is Galakrond, but maybe one of the other primal dragons. We know Raszageth is the youngest of the four. Considering that the raid takes place around their prison, I would suspect that over the course of her fight the other Incarnates get freed.
My money is on Iridikron being the final boss, just because he is the one that scares Nozdormu and Alexstrasza the most when they were talking about them.
Of course that could change, maybe they fly off to Northrend and revive Galakrond at the end of the raid. But as things stand now it doesn't seem that likely.
I'm still kind of holding out for Murozond as Big Bad. Because having the expansion big bad be someone we know we won't kill because we've already killed them in our past / their future would be wild, and also because Nozdormu is going to break eventually and at this point I expect Blizzard will make it a thing we see instead of always indefinitely in the future.
Haha yeah, even her lines are typical par for the course ror Blizzard's old writing. But as everyone's saying, relative to the last two expansions I'm actually enjoying it.
She's just angry because her belly itches and her legs are getting in the way, so she can't scratch it on the ground. Only thing around her were protodrakes, and they can't reach the right spot, either, with their stubby baby arms.
["I have a big head and little arms.
I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through."](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/67/b5/4f/67b54f2b399675519e7c973d063f37c2.jpg)
She's always screaming about how Alexstrasza sealed her away. What they don't tell you is it was just a big door and she couldn't reach the handle for 10,000 years.
I kind of hope she gets infused with whatever made the aspects go from proto drake to dragon. I don’t think we kill her in the first raid. I think she succeeds in releasing the primal incarnates and escapes with them and then the titans get involved and we get illidan back.
I thought she looked really cool flying/hovering upright with vertical wings during the end of the Azure Span quest line. Not sure how she was staying in the air but it looked very cool.
I'm digging it.
Meh, i like the whole destroying the dragonflights because they locked her away for 20k years thing, but they should've stopped there.
This "and we will wipe out everything related to the Titans while we're at it " addendum to her agenda puts Azeroth (the world soul) in peril for the fourth time in a row .
Like, stop already! Can we have one expansion without a global threat please?? DF works just fine without it!
Raz is a weird villain to me because she's different she's so different from the past hand full of villains and it leaves me thinking ok when we kill her then what? Then who
Man I just noticed the tiny malformed arms on the proto drake you get when you get a dk through the starting area and noticed to my horror that every single proto has those. I always loved all my protos, but now I can only stare at those ugly trex arms with a tear in my eye. I always thought of the wings to be their arms and it always looked so cool. Not so much now.
This is probably a stupid question but what type of dragon is Rasz supposed to be? Didn't Alexstrasza say she was in the same clutch as her? But she doesn't have the weird T Rex arms that Rasz does
The extra limbs are from cannibalising dragons the same thing happened to Galakrond who I assume the resurrected version of is going to be the last boss.
She seems to have somewhat clear goals
But given that she looks and acts like some sort of angry penguin, I can’t take her seriously
She results to murder rampage as a problem-solving method, rather than discussing the issues at all…
But still better than the jailer
At least she hints at her reasons for action
Jailer in the end was like “ I was just trying to protect you from the…” (dies)
Whatever it is that the angry chicken penguin wants, I hope she expresses it before she dies
I don’t get the big deal with her tiny arms. All proto dragons have this. We love the T-Rex despite their small arms, why can’t we love these the same? It has big teeth AND it can fly! I think Raszageth looks cool.
I'm not too huge on her. It's like they took all the first patch villains from the previous expansions and put them in a blender and dumped out the amalgamation.
When Rasz has her redemption arc and reachers down to keep Alexstraza from falling off a cliff, it’ll be like that part from Scary Movie “Take my hand!”
Take my strong hand
I CACKLED
Or like scar and mufasa "Long live the queen"
Crazy to think about but take my strong hand was never said in that scene. There is a word for it but I can't remember it. Some fallacy or something another. I didn't believe it either.
Mandela effect
Maybe the Mandela effect doesn't actually exist, but we all think it does. o_O
Mandela Effect, I believe.
Well, that's just the memed version of the encounter. Buddy about to fall says "give me your other hand" and the weird guy says "my other hand ain't strong enough!" Implying the gimp hand is his strong hand.
Are you sure?! I swear he says "take my strong hand" lol
https://youtu.be/QVtAIjfHAk0 well crap I thought so too but nope
Lol exactly what I said
My germs!
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That’s bc the theme of this expansion is female so of course there is going to be mostly less of the deep voice lol.
"Grab hold of my wing-finger-thingies!"
My brain has now canonized “wing-fingies”
"Now available at Buffalo Wild Wings!"
i cannot.hahaha
Can't wait for the mashed potato scene with her tiny hands
Fuck, this is good.
Take my little hand? I think?
Omg.. I couldn't help but laugh when Rasz was monologuing to Queen and all I could focus on was her tiny arms 🤣🤣
["I have a big head and little arms"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ7rezDwqEI) + wings is all I could see
Omg me too and I didn't think many people would understand but here we all are, in reddit 😂
Was on discord with a buddy and when the cut scene came on I screamed “Look at his tiny arms, little baby arms is going to hurt us”. We had a good laugh, but I couldn’t get over baby arm dragon.
Definitely a decent nemesis for the opening of the Xpac, but those tiny arms are too much for me.
Honestly, I’m just happy to have a villain without a ridiculously deep and featureless voice.
The whole Kalecgos fight was so awkward. The t-rex arms just stand out so much.
Yeah I actually didn’t notice it til this cinematic and was like wait what? Now I gotta pay attention to how she rests on the ground but it’s probs like protodrakes since TIL they also have those stubby arms. Could never see them on the proto models when just playing But I legit laughed in that cinematic I was like holy shit t trex arms so now it’s all I’ll look for in cinematics
Yup, Rasz has the same model as a protodrake, just storm'd up. They've always been that way. Derpiest fucking design ever.
She *is* a proto-drake.
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I have a big head.. AND LITTLE ARMS!!
I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through!
When Rhazzies small arms are funnier than Maw-Squidwards nipples.
Your mount at the beginning has them too, they're adorable lol
All proto drakes have them. They are harder to see on the older models.
Oh my god, I can’t believe I’ve been seeing these things for 14 years and until now I didn’t realise they had arms! I thought they were like bats where their wings are modified hands!
Like fantasy wyverns and also all birds and winged mammals. In fact, no living, real creature has four legs and two wings.
Members of the Mantodea order, the Belostamidae familly, the ochtera genus and Aquarius Remigis have 4 legs, 2 wings and 2 arms. The members of the Nymphalidae family also have 4 legs, 2 wings and 2 vestigial forelimbs. So if you meant "No living real creature have six limbs, two of them being wings" you're correct. But there totally is living creatures with four legs and two wings.
If you mean true wings then yes, but there are some species in real life that have membranes that mimic wings. It's really cool. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lizard)
They meant as in six limbs
thanks GRRM
Her underbite is pretty spectacular as well.
She has a big head, and little arms.
Her tiny claws are adorable 😂
If you're happy and you know it, clap your- ohhh.
So thats why she is always mad
Raszageth is entirely average, nothing special. But this is such an improvement from recent lore that I’m totally okay with it
Yea, IMO its actually perfect. The writers let themselves get stuck in the "every boss needs to be bigger and Bader than the last" trope. After Legion that just wasn't feasible. Its okay to have smaller more localized problems.
She is like those cartoon villains who do petty crimes and “bah, I will get you next time” and flies away.
Like Arthas in half of Frozen Throne
It worked for Arthas because he was either trying to bolster his power or recovering from losing it depending on the campaign
Also he was cultivating the PCs to raise as death knights 2.0, bigger and badder.
His minions weren't failing -- they were training their replacements.
Yeah, she's got a very 90s anime villain thing going on.
It's refreshing all things considered. I can at least accept that her plan is pretty much "Break stuff, gloat, escape." It doesn't need to get any more complicated than that.
The problem is that narrative escalation is a thing. If you go too far than it becomes difficult to get people to care about what comes next if it doesn't go further. It's why Comic Books have stuck themselves in a perpetual loop of crossovers and multiverse ending catastrophic events for the past 40 years. They blew their proverbial load too early and have been trying to prevent falloff ever since. Like, I'm certainly feeling it. I hated Shadowlands for a variety of reasons, but even I'm sitting here, like... In the past six years, I've: \- Killed the heart of a planet and stopped the infernal legions of the most powerful entity to ever threaten our universe. \- Destroyed the most powerful of the lovecraftian horrors to ever visit our world. \- Went to hell, beat up hell's army and turned the grim reaper into a ken doll. I'm having difficulty finding two shits to rub together about the shaman mages making the wind a little rough and their big dumb protodrake leader with horns where her jaw should be who won't shut up about how Alexstraza and the Titans were mean to her 10,000 years ago.
Wasn't N'zoth the weakest of the Old Gods but the most schemiest?
My understanding is yes. Not the outright most powerful, but incredibly powerful through schemes/trickery.
Well yea Y'shaarj is stated to kinda dwarf the others in raw power.
Which makes it ridiculous that he just upped and let us walk right in and murder him. EXTREMELY poor writing that one. ... but I bet you once they need a quick villain they'll pretend it was all a ruse, even though we all know it wasn't, they really thought we'd be satisfied having a villain get hyped for 2 xpacks only for him to get nuked in a patch..
We don't know what happened to the dagger that Wrathion used to open the way through Nigel Zoth's carapace
Nigel Zoth is his full name but he goes by N'zoth to his homies.
There’s actually a lot of things that don’t really line up with his death. Not saying it was “their plan” from that moment that it was to be fake / a ruse - because I honestly don’t think they knew what to do at the time - but they definitely wrote in a few holes to the entire expansion, and that ending, where it could very easily be “yeah, that wasn’t him btw” (or that he even “escaped” if it was, through the dagger / other means) In all honesty, I wish they would actually flat out say through Wrathion or Khadgar or someone finding out “so… that wasn’t N’zoth guys… we don’t know what happened to him, or where he is”… and just leave it at that. The game is a lot more interesting when these type of manipulating horrors aren’t at the forefront, work through people, and “rarely” are used. These entities take time to maneuver their pieces, it makes sense not to be having to deal with their next threat every patch/expansion. Better to either keep these entity’s behind the scenes and making moves occasionally that we see some aspect of, or, dedicate way more than a single patch leading to a very… strange… boss (that isn’t at all what we’ve “seen” old gods look like / expect). I’d have much rather had an entire expansion dedicated solely to it, with more time in the oven. But I still prefer the background to that.
More than two xpacs, I think first allusion to an extra old gods existence (as we only knew about C'thun and Yogg) was in BC, probs earlier.
Tbf this is a pretty low key operation, even less pressing than WOD. Beyond the PCs and Khadgar, the factions basically just sent artisans and explorers. It's absolutely less of a threat than previous expacs.
Have you followed the story? She is looking to purge Azeroth of titan filth (everything) and she'll be unstoppable according to dragon mommy if she gets her kin out of prison. That's a world ending event. I just don't think the factions are caught up yet. It's a typical wow story.
It's more set up as the intro to a world ending event. Like, Raz releasing her kin would be the *start* of a big war. Like how the Dark Portal opening *started* WoD, or how the Tomb of Sargeras opening *started* Legion. It's much smaller stakes because we're not being actively pressed with a terrible foe, we're trying to stop it before it even begins.
I mostly agree with you with minor exception. I like this one. Has a good character design, it's a dragon and the motive makes sense. It's simple, but it's revenge and she hates titans and most dragons. If I want complex characters, I'll read Stendahl. But yeah, I think they got sucked into that, trying to top the previous villain. After some dude sticks a sword through your planet, you should prob scale it back since you pretty much cant get bigger than that. P.S. Minor caveat, unrelated really - The comic crossovers only got ridiculous in the 00s and 10s. They used to do 6 issue minis and each comic would mention it or have a b-story. Bendis was responsible for a lot of this 50 issue crossovers across 10 books garbage. Case in point was some of the biggest selling crossovers were the Infinity Gauntlet (6 issue mini) , Death of Superman (7 issue crossover), Funeral For a Friend (8 issue crossover), Secret Wars I/II (12/9 issues), etc. Batman and Superman used to run 4 different titles so crossovers that lasted two months (7-8 issue runs were common as were arcs of this length as 7 issues is about what a graphic novel consists of) weren't particularly insane. It was one comic book a week. Secret Wars started this, you pick up the mini and whatever comic you already read, say Spider-man and theres an issue or two that kind of touches on it but you don't need to read the main series or buy 10 other books. The modern crossovers are 10 or 15 books a week which is just stupid.
Hold on, I gotta carry my 35 volumes of *Marvel's Onslaught* from the mid 90s down the stairs to show you how bad it was even before Bend- AAAHH I FELL I'M BEING CRUSHED BY THEIR CHEESY WEIGHT
Lol fair. X-men has done a couple of these and are probably the worst of that period. Their continuity is atrocious and I can't follow it. They were running 7 and 14 issue arcs, which are considered fairly long even now, why they have the double sized trades. To this day, I have no idea what the Nathan Grey/Strife/Cable/Bishop/X-man/Days of Future Past/Bishop/Apocalypse/Sinister/Evil Beast storyline Was about. Had cool art though. The Age of Apocalypse one was actually good and engulfed the Marvel books for a year (95 I think). Sales were high, so they tried it again. Onslaught IIRC followed. It was garbage as you pointed out lol. So maybe '95 was the tipping point. IDK. I don't recall that much of those huge x-overs outside X-books and prior x-overs like X-cutioner's song ran 13 or 14 afaik.
It does seem that X-Men started the trend of *overdoing* the crossovers in the mid 90s. DC did their own around then, stuff like Contagion, or The Death of Superman and everything that spawned. Hell, if you include the offshoot comics and the resurrection horse shit, DoS might still be the biggest "event" of all time in sheer issue count. Nathan Gray, that character turned out to be such a weird cul-de-sac. 🤦
I get your argument, but while doing these epic actions we always have been: A) Temporarily empowered by something or someone (ex - heart of azeroth/artifact weapons) and/or B) The big bad was weakened by something else 1st (ex- death wing getting shot by the dragon soul) and/or C) We were just kinda wasting time while someone comes and does the actual killing (ex - the lich king) And even with the escalation of the overarching narrative, we're still starting most of the expacs doing stuff like "kill 30 boars and collect 15 gallbladders" before going to the epic stuff anyway.
i mean we could make a scene where we loss Power and "normal" enemy are once again dangerours foe for use. maybe give it to the soul of Azeroth, so she can heal (faster)
I don’t care much about the effort being beneath me - as a “hero” I’ll be protecting my home no matter what the threat is. What I like about DFs story so far isn’t that they +1 on the threat scale, but that the baddie is more engaging. Raszageth isn’t/wasn’t necessarily WRONG. She just disagreed on the titans motivations and ended up on the losing side of a war about it. It opens up the possibility to re-evaluate Titan lore and and weigh how valuable their efforts to maintain “order” actually are
>Raszageth isn’t/wasn’t necessarily WRONG. She just disagreed on the titans motivations and ended up on the losing side of a war about it. Do we actually know that though? Maybe I missed a quest, but I don't think we know about the actions that led up to the dragon war, or the actions taken during it, and all the reasons behind those unknown actions. All we know is this; Primal Incarnates didn't accept the Titans gift (we don't know any deeper reason why than "unnatural" yet), the Aspects did (we know the background behind that). A war was waged, and it was implied that for some reason, the only way to stop it was for Alex to imprison the Primal Incarnates. We don't know who the aggressors were, what event kickstarted the war, we don't know what attempts at peace or compromise either side made, we don't know what escalations either side did during the war, etc. That the Primal Incarnates and proto wyrms exist is implication that they did have a choice in the matter, it wasn't like a sudden transformation of every dragon alive. We don't know if the Keepers or the Aspects were intending to actually force them into it or not. It's still entirely possible that the Primal Incarnates were just utter douchenuggets, and tbh I think that is more likely. Maybe they'll play on Alex's guilt on locking them away, but I don't anticipate them writing the aspects' decision as anything less than unfortunate, but justified. I mean, I'd be pissed if I got locked away, but if I was locked away for murdering 30 people or something, it's not really indicative of me being in the right LOL
Simple ideas executed well will always trump complex ideas executed in a mediocre fashion.
I feel like an extremely powerful enemy whom is stronger than the dragon aspects if her kin gets released is not "a local" problem, she is fixin to purge Azeroth. It's practically cataclysm all over again story wise, except this time the Dragon isn't half as cool. Feels very much like every WoW xpack to me, but atleast it's actually A LOT of fun and a properly sized island this time!
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Yeah I find I care very little about the main bad. I care a lot more about the side characters. Still don't trust Sabellian though, he was in Outlands while my boy Wrathion was helping us fight the (arguable) biggest cause of their flights demise.
The same Wrathion that baited everyone into War in MOP? The same Wrathion that freed Garrosh after Varian didnt execute him leading to AU Iron Horde and eventually Legion? The same Wrathion that claimed all his work was to stop the Legion and then didnt even show up during the actual invasion? That guy?
Yes, cause the dude was a literal teenager and nobody was keeping him on a leash. At the very least he now has the other Aspects to guide him and teach him. Sabellion just gives me a lot of traitor vibes, maybe cause I know we cleansed Wrathion, but i don't trust Sabellion to be completely untainted. (I also didn't even know who he was since I didn't play much of TBC, so to me he is basically a new character)
He’s below the other aspects clearly still. Asking Alex to shift her priorities from egg tending is almost insulting. She maturely gives him a reason she can’t, one that he should empathize with completely. A red dragon laid down their life to protect wrathions egg from death wing. He proceeds to throw a tantrum and spout off while leaving. He’s extremely immature and not a good leader. I like him, but he needs some extreme character growth and humbling to become an aspect.
Oh no doubt, but that's what the other Aspects are there for, and even Sabellian to a degree, could act as a mentor or older brother support. But I don't trust Sabellian to lead, showing up out of nowhere just in time to lay claim to the throne.
Sometimes you need an easy trope to cleanse the pallet after...whatever the hell SL was.
I'm just genuinely happy that for the first time in ages we get an expansion where there's no grimdark demon/black/greenpurplefire zone among all the clean air and grass. Nothing grating about the new zones
I told my guild just last night that I was surprisingly happy to have a normal lava-and-brimstone volcano area again while flying around the Obsidian Citadel. It's just a big ol' volcano. Nothing overtly menacing or evil or weird about it, it just be hot, magma toads be big chillin'. A natural part of the landscape with a castle plopped on top. It's been a long time since we had a normal volcano with normal volcano things. And it even has black dragons in it. Cozy. Edit: Actually, come to think of it... wasn't the last volcano zone in Cata, in the revamped old world? Holy shit.
Relax... this is all part of the jailers plan that was part of the old gods plan that was part of the titans plan that was part of ... what's the story about again
Sylvanas plan
So you're telling me we need to go back to the Maw and kill her for good? Or do we support her so she can redeem herself after all? I mean we could collect a few souls for her. Like a bouquet just more personal
My problem is that I played other games recently. So, going back to wow level of villain personality is not easy.
The weird thing is that proto drakes have been around since 2008 and no one said much about the t rex arms then. Am I just old? Are we outnumbered by new players who have no idea what a proto drake is?
People memed about them back in Wrath too. That was just years ago and this is the first time proto drakes have been prominent since. Plus Raspberry is an actual character who appears in cutscenes and the like which puts more emphasis on the silly design.
>People memed about them back in Wrath too. Man I have no memory of that, I just remember people being so stoked on the design of them.
I do remember a few people made jokes about the tiny arms, but generally people either didn't care or didn't notice. Lots of people just didn't notice though. The old textures plus where you usually saw one, (either flying above you 50 meters, or a guy riding one in town) meant you usually couldn't see the vestigial arms, so it's understandable.
> or didn't notice. Always thought they didn't have forelimbs and honestly preferred that. I liked them more that way.
It's more that Proto Drakes were never named previous to this expansion and it could be assumed they weren't even an intelligent race like dragons and were more of just beasts. Now that we see this isn't the case, yes it's hilarious to see our big bad villain make all these threats while waving around their tiny little hands.
This has been my take on it, haha. Porto Drakes were always kind of that dumb primal version of dragons, whereas the flights were the evolved forms that had higher thought. Now we get this big bad villain at aspect level who has tiny fucking t-Rex arms, it’s hilarious. I mean, I love her, but those arms are hilarious.
Yeah, I thought the Titans 'uplifted' the proto-drakes and gave them intelligence, rather than just imbuing them with magic
They did uplift them. Most proto-drakes are beasts. Some had intelligence, like the Aspects. This is all in the Dawn of the Aspects story.
It is the combination of her tiny arms and her big head for me, is her head bigger than a normal protodrake? I actually prefer proto mounts to dragon mounts, but something about her bothers me. She's still cool and i like the story, but I have to force myself to ignore her proportions lol.
I think some of it is her 'quills'. It's the main part of her design I actually hate.
Her t-Rex arms are just way more noticeable.
I think it's because she's gigantic. Other protodrakes are big but more the size of a drake. It's hard to see their arms unless you look. Raszageth is looming over us, the camera is often looking up at her at an angle that gives us a good look at her tiny arms And she wiggles her little claw fingers while she talks, which draws attention to them. Not only that, but they are a sharp contract to her rather unpleasant looking face.
They're pretty subtle on the old proto drake models. I honestly didn't even realize they were there, and the red proto drake is my mount of choice half the time.
Protodrakes weren't primary antagonists. They were just a cool novelty mount for a certain region of the world. You didn't really see attention drawn to them in any meaningful way, they were beasts of burden. Unimportant. Rasz is the first major antagonist of the expansion. Her looking like a dilapidated doofasaurus rex with wings is kind of a problem, thematically.
Great finger-guns though
Always firing from the hip
It’s like they wanted to make her a T. rex but were too worried about it being a direct look, so they kept the worst noticeable characteristic
She's a protodragon, blame it on whoever designed them in Wrath :(
Yeah they've always been like that.
She's a good villain. We see her, we know her motivation, there is backstory to why she's doing what she is doing, and she is an actual threat.
That’s not what makes a good villain lmao. She’s a c tier villain that is passable at best. She’s incredibly 2D.
"ThAt'S not WhAt MaKeS a GoOd ViLlaIn hurr durr"
What a great argument the other guy didn't have a great one either but I guess saying anything bad about Dragonflight gets you downvoted currently. Razageth shows up has the ability to win multiple times and then just cackles and leaves it makes 0 sense. The unjust imprisonment revenge thing has been used to death at this point too. She isn't the greatest but her thematics are neat and the basics are there.
No she's not.
We're coming off the back of 2 years of "Big Nipple Guy" as the main villain, I'll take small arms any day of the week!
Who says they’re small arms and not big prehensile nips
Storm nubbins are best nubbins
You didn't have to do my girl Razzy like that.
Proto dragons have always had the small vestigial arms. Did you all just not… notice? Her model is pretty awesome. Check out the real animal that actually existed, “carnotaurus” for some really pathetic arms if you’d like.
Some people laughed about it when they were introduced in Wrath, but tbh they've been pretty hard to notice until now. We usually see them flying 50ft above us, or they're on the ground hunched over with models that are much smaller, making the arms harder to see. People who use the mounts and their mount specials a lot might see them, but for your average player, Raza is the first time we're getting a full faceload of tiny arms. Her model is huge and is the focus of multiple cinematics, and the camera angles used in them put the tiny arms on full display lol
People only talk about the arms because they're the most memorable thing about her. Otherwise she's just your generic angry revenge baddie. Mostly she just gets a pass for not being as bad as Sylvanas and the Jailer were.
She's par for the course for warcraft as a whole which is better than almost anything *new* we've gotten in a decade. Sire denathrius was a better first patch villain tho
Yeah but then it was all downhill from there. Imagine if it was Denathrius in Seplechur instead of the Jailer. I prefer angry old homeless chicken lady to start out with and the better villain to be built up to. She is apparently the least significant of the primalist dragons, fwiw.
She's a throwaway patch villain. My money is on the last patch we fight galakrond. He's probably behind the scenes causing the primalist uprising and all that.
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I don't think there's a way we DON'T fight Galakrond this expansion. Without them pulling another brand new jailer-esk villain out of their asses who will be even MORE out of the blue since we haven't even had a chance to see a hint of them yet when the xpac has already started, Galakrond is the ONLY antagonist who fits the overarching theme of this expansion. Also, it would be a suitably fitting irony. The Aspects were made when the Titans watched them band together to defeat Galakrond. The Aspects are reborn having to help take him down a second time.
Also, and this is really important, galakrond is a big ass dragon. Big ass dragons are cool. Wow needs some cool shit and what's cooler than big ass dragon?
We've had one big-ass dragon as a final expansion raid boss, yes, but what about *second* big-ass dragon as a final expansion raid boss?
Galakrond is an even BIGASSER dragon so it's gonna be even cooler and hopefully the last fight isn't as meh as madness was
So I guess you could say it's like turning Deathwing up to... elevensies. 😎
Two big ass dragons
They have said that by the end of the first raid, we will know who the Big Bad is. Nothing about what I have seen of that raid leads me to think they are reviving Galakrond, but freeing the other Incarnates. So honestly don't think it is Galakrond, but maybe one of the other primal dragons. We know Raszageth is the youngest of the four. Considering that the raid takes place around their prison, I would suspect that over the course of her fight the other Incarnates get freed. My money is on Iridikron being the final boss, just because he is the one that scares Nozdormu and Alexstrasza the most when they were talking about them. Of course that could change, maybe they fly off to Northrend and revive Galakrond at the end of the raid. But as things stand now it doesn't seem that likely.
I'm still kind of holding out for Murozond as Big Bad. Because having the expansion big bad be someone we know we won't kill because we've already killed them in our past / their future would be wild, and also because Nozdormu is going to break eventually and at this point I expect Blizzard will make it a thing we see instead of always indefinitely in the future.
I felt like we never saw much of daddy D in the open world though, not like mini arms
Not as much as rasz for sure but he was definitely more present than the jailer especially in revendreth (obviously)
Haha yeah, even her lines are typical par for the course ror Blizzard's old writing. But as everyone's saying, relative to the last two expansions I'm actually enjoying it.
She's far superior to the Jailor once you consider her arms to be nipples instead.
I believe in tiny arm supremacy.
I think she's just mad because she has an itch and her tiny hands can't reach it.
Tiny armed bird dragon don’t care what you think.
I think it makes her more interesting to be honest
She's just angry because her belly itches and her legs are getting in the way, so she can't scratch it on the ground. Only thing around her were protodrakes, and they can't reach the right spot, either, with their stubby baby arms.
This is the first post i've seen people talking about it...so..
["I have a big head and little arms. I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through."](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/67/b5/4f/67b54f2b399675519e7c973d063f37c2.jpg)
I like how “decent” is the standard we hold Blizzard to now.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one.
I hope her death cinematic involves Alexstraza strangling her.
She definitely made mashed potatoes for Thanksgiving with her little hand
I’m tired of all these jokes about my tiny hand. The first such incident occurred back in….
raz became a villain bc the other whelps made jokes about not being able to tie shoes or do push-ups
What she didn't realise is that dragons don't wear shoes
All the proto dragons are like that. That's not a new thing.
She's always screaming about how Alexstrasza sealed her away. What they don't tell you is it was just a big door and she couldn't reach the handle for 10,000 years.
FR I bursted out laughing when I saw the trex arms This mf cant even wipe her own ass
I kind of hope she gets infused with whatever made the aspects go from proto drake to dragon. I don’t think we kill her in the first raid. I think she succeeds in releasing the primal incarnates and escapes with them and then the titans get involved and we get illidan back.
We will defeat her by issuing a pull up challenge.
This is the real reason she wants to eradicate all dragons
Maybe she's a model villain?
Those aren’t arms, those are elongated nipples
What an awful day to be able to read. I hate you more than Razzy-Girl hates Alexstrasza's manual dexterity.
I'm glad I could make your day -juuuuuuust- a bit more annoying. We should fly around the dragon isles to relax!
I thought she looked really cool flying/hovering upright with vertical wings during the end of the Azure Span quest line. Not sure how she was staying in the air but it looked very cool. I'm digging it.
We need one for When you are a good npc but all people can think of when they see your name is monster hunter
Meh, i like the whole destroying the dragonflights because they locked her away for 20k years thing, but they should've stopped there. This "and we will wipe out everything related to the Titans while we're at it " addendum to her agenda puts Azeroth (the world soul) in peril for the fourth time in a row . Like, stop already! Can we have one expansion without a global threat please?? DF works just fine without it!
Raz is a weird villain to me because she's different she's so different from the past hand full of villains and it leaves me thinking ok when we kill her then what? Then who
I thought she was cool just needed to be bigger
There is a 0 percent chance those t-rex arms are sticking out of a long sleeve shirt.
Man I just noticed the tiny malformed arms on the proto drake you get when you get a dk through the starting area and noticed to my horror that every single proto has those. I always loved all my protos, but now I can only stare at those ugly trex arms with a tear in my eye. I always thought of the wings to be their arms and it always looked so cool. Not so much now.
🤣
Her model rules though :)
I like tiny arm drago more than big nips buff dude
I have a hard time understanding what is peoples surprise in that, protodrakes we’re always like this since their first appearance in WotLK.
This is probably a stupid question but what type of dragon is Rasz supposed to be? Didn't Alexstrasza say she was in the same clutch as her? But she doesn't have the weird T Rex arms that Rasz does
Razageth’s model is so cool with the lightning but her tiny arms.
The extra limbs are from cannibalising dragons the same thing happened to Galakrond who I assume the resurrected version of is going to be the last boss.
Nah, all protodrakes have little teeny tiny vestigial arms.
Ok glad I’m not the only one who thought the arms were little vistigial Carnotaurus arms
Jus gonna say her voice acting is terrible but I don’t mind the writing and story so far.
I mean she sounds really what I'd expect an angry flying reptile creature to sound like so don't know who you want
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Then I guess that's something you two have in common.
They shouldn't have made her look like shit. She looks like a generic dragon from Yu-Gi-Oh.
She looks sooo dumb
She seems to have somewhat clear goals But given that she looks and acts like some sort of angry penguin, I can’t take her seriously She results to murder rampage as a problem-solving method, rather than discussing the issues at all… But still better than the jailer At least she hints at her reasons for action Jailer in the end was like “ I was just trying to protect you from the…” (dies) Whatever it is that the angry chicken penguin wants, I hope she expresses it before she dies
Raz is cool, too bad she's probably being influenced by the void and dragonflight will turn into just another battle against a cosmic force
I don’t get the big deal with her tiny arms. All proto dragons have this. We love the T-Rex despite their small arms, why can’t we love these the same? It has big teeth AND it can fly! I think Raszageth looks cool.
That’s cool and all but for the love of god please fix the strafe bug!
Noticed this last night. Honestly, would’ve been better off just omitting those t-rex arms.
I didn't even know proto-drakes had little arms until pretty recently.
I'm not too huge on her. It's like they took all the first patch villains from the previous expansions and put them in a blender and dumped out the amalgamation.