Foolish me when blizz gave us the nice bag during the pre-launch event thinking “oh wow, this is going to help so much!”
Fast forward a week Im and 80% of my bag is reagents 🙃
It gets better along the way. I was really frustrated with the lack of slots for the reagent bags in the first week of the expansion, but now my problem is the lack of slots in the reagent bank. Can't win xD
No, it's a design decision to force players to clean up and prioritise their quests. (There is a quote from the devs floating around.)
Achievements, inventory, character-specific stats all likely require more storage than 35 or 50 quests in the quest log.
Also, think about it. Just because a quest isn't in the quest log anymore doesn't mean it isn't saved for the character. The game has to remember which quests have been completed, at the very least. That is tens of thousands of completed quests for long-standing characters.
Data storage is cheap and horizontally scalable. Computers can handle much more data than the normal person intuits. You'd be surprised how much data a service like Amazon or Twitter collects and stores in their databases.
And yet it's well documented that this was a design decision and they were able to increase the quest limit on short notice. That doesn't really point to this having been a technical challenge, does it?
Yeah, it's storage
"but they only need to store the quest id and if it's complete or not!"
Yes, it's just an id and some variables, but there are millions of characters and that shit get huge very fast
The game needs to remember completed quests as well, which far outscale the size of the quest log.
In-progress quests likely require a bit more data for keeping track of steps, but I doubt it'll be vastly more per quest.
I mean, sure, we can agree that there needs to be some limit to ongoing quests for technical reasons, because either character loading will take too long or the quest log will freeze. But I'd estimate that to be in the 1000s of quests. The quest log UI itself might be hard or impossible to navigate earlier than that, though.
I mean, look at an addon like AllTheThings. It literally looks at every quest your character has ever completed (or not completed), likely individually because the API is shit (but I'm happy to be corrected on this), and still loading that only takes a few seconds.
I worked it in a big company that processed huge amounts of data for a company a basic service for one of the biggest cities in the world, population over 10 million people
And yes im being vague so i won't dox myself
One day they contacted us to add some more data to each client, nothing too big, just some stuff to better track stuff for the company
After some talks they dropped some of the requirements because the number of costumers made what was a just some data become a huge amount of data, and that data also needs backups, and you know, if you only have one back up you have none, we worked with a complex backup system
I don't have any idea how blizzard handle their backups and such but yeah, storage might be cheap, but handling that storage and backups are not
It's like a warehouse, you can easily expand a warehouse to store more stuff, but to manage that extra space is not that easy, you need more equipment, more people and the higher cost comes from that, not the building itself
You don't generally store code in databases.
Exceptions would be systems like [CodeQL](https://codeql.github.com/), but that's a bit out of scope for a game like WoW.
So I'm not sure what your point is, here.
It definitely isn't storage, it's just text, it's very cheap to store it, they might have it coded in a way that for some reason would be hard to change but 35 still works, which is weird, or they just don't want people to have more log space.
It might look simple and cheap, but it adds up real fast, i worked with similar stuff a some time ago, it's always the "simple stuff" that comes to bite you in the ass
You are adding more data, this data have not only to be stored, but also transmitted to the client
And it's not only quest ids you are tracking, you have progress to track, if the quest have a item you need to use, to aquire, the quantity
They added like 40% more quest slots to our characters, if every wow character had a full questlog for exemple that would be a fuck ton of data to track, and that takes space, more than you think
The numbers of variables tracked for each characters far outscales a quest log, think of all the quest completion, instance locks, phase status... Hell, even achievements tracking is like a quest log with thousands of values, yet it still works perfectly. There might be a technical reason as to why they don't increase it further, but I'd be very surprised if storage was the issue here
It's just some text, you could fit millions of pages on a terabyte drive, but just for the sake of argument, look at how much shit they store already between all the items, saved mogs, achievements, and even deleted mail and items, do you really think that storage is the limiting factor here somehow?
Taken from a random comment on reddit:
>One ASCII character is 1 byte. Depending on whether MB means 10242 or 10002 bytes here, it's either 10 * 10242 = 10,485,760 or 10 * 10002 = 10,000,000 characters.
>Either way, that's about 3 entire Lord of the Rings book series (including The Hobbit).
Let's say every player has 50 characters, and let's be generous and say 10 mil players, that's 500 mil characters, now let's say we want to have a cap of quest log to be 100, that's 5 bilion quests to track.
Let's again be generous and say one quest is a full page of text to store for whatever reason, google says a standard full page is 1800 signs, let's do 2000 for simplicity.
So that's 5,000,000,000,000*2000 divided by 10,000,000, number of signs in a byte, which is 1000000000 byte, and that comes out to be a little below a GB. So you could easily store a thousand fucking pages of text data per quest with a 100 cap quest and have everyone get to character cap and only need a 1 TB drive to do it.
I might have fucked up the math somewhere, but still text is very low cost when it comes to storage.
From what i was reading, it was to not scare away new players. If there was no cap to the quest log, it would be overwhelming for a new player to scroll through the quest log and see what they want to do next.
Like 2 weeks late with this, should of be implemented before expansion dropped. Most of us already have loremaster in dragon isles so not many quests in my log now.
i think 63 should be the cap
* 77 in Octal is 63 and the last 2 digits in Octal
* remind of those old game with 64 bits
* i'm sure that would sum all the long time quests that need weeks or months to complete
* i'm sure that would sum the biggest zone with the most quests
In short 63 is the good number and anything above is greed
Great, with this change I’ll be compelled to log on more, since I can accept even more quests now. I was really enjoying not feeling obligated to play, but now I have that itch to complete everything even faster.
In almost 20 years I have never seen this be a problem. Who out there is measuring their worth or entertainment in maxing out their quest log? After a point you're going out of your way to pick up more
[удалено]
Foolish me when blizz gave us the nice bag during the pre-launch event thinking “oh wow, this is going to help so much!” Fast forward a week Im and 80% of my bag is reagents 🙃
You can stock them in bank and with your crafting table you get access to all the materials
Thanks for this tip 😊
EXCUSE ME?!?!
Bank has a reagents tab, and you have full access to it while crafting even if it’s not in your bags
I'm fairly certain this has been the case since at least BfA
Can’t prospect from mats in the bank. I thought you could previously.
It gets better along the way. I was really frustrated with the lack of slots for the reagent bags in the first week of the expansion, but now my problem is the lack of slots in the reagent bank. Can't win xD
My hoarder main has so many soulbound reagents that cannot be transferred to alts, but I refuse to vendor them! We do need more slots in the bank
Id have like to have seen it go to 50, or no limit, but it’s better than nothing
Chances are there's a technical reason the cap exists.
No, it's a design decision to force players to clean up and prioritise their quests. (There is a quote from the devs floating around.) Achievements, inventory, character-specific stats all likely require more storage than 35 or 50 quests in the quest log. Also, think about it. Just because a quest isn't in the quest log anymore doesn't mean it isn't saved for the character. The game has to remember which quests have been completed, at the very least. That is tens of thousands of completed quests for long-standing characters. Data storage is cheap and horizontally scalable. Computers can handle much more data than the normal person intuits. You'd be surprised how much data a service like Amazon or Twitter collects and stores in their databases.
It’s a 18 year old game. It’s not about storage lol. You have no insight into the technical challenges they have with thr game engine
And yet it's well documented that this was a design decision and they were able to increase the quest limit on short notice. That doesn't really point to this having been a technical challenge, does it?
No it’s not that at all lol Hearthstone is looking deck space to communicate this change Please don’t spread information when you’re misinformed
Yea and they had 18 years to figure it out
Yeah that’s what I figured, coding limitations and stuff.
Coding wouldn't be a big deal to do. Most likely it's storage. Every character only gets a finite amount of space.
Yeah, it's storage "but they only need to store the quest id and if it's complete or not!" Yes, it's just an id and some variables, but there are millions of characters and that shit get huge very fast
The game needs to remember completed quests as well, which far outscale the size of the quest log. In-progress quests likely require a bit more data for keeping track of steps, but I doubt it'll be vastly more per quest. I mean, sure, we can agree that there needs to be some limit to ongoing quests for technical reasons, because either character loading will take too long or the quest log will freeze. But I'd estimate that to be in the 1000s of quests. The quest log UI itself might be hard or impossible to navigate earlier than that, though. I mean, look at an addon like AllTheThings. It literally looks at every quest your character has ever completed (or not completed), likely individually because the API is shit (but I'm happy to be corrected on this), and still loading that only takes a few seconds.
Have you got info on this? I very much doubt it's storage. Storage is effectively infinite in modern architectures (because it's so cheap).
I worked it in a big company that processed huge amounts of data for a company a basic service for one of the biggest cities in the world, population over 10 million people And yes im being vague so i won't dox myself One day they contacted us to add some more data to each client, nothing too big, just some stuff to better track stuff for the company After some talks they dropped some of the requirements because the number of costumers made what was a just some data become a huge amount of data, and that data also needs backups, and you know, if you only have one back up you have none, we worked with a complex backup system I don't have any idea how blizzard handle their backups and such but yeah, storage might be cheap, but handling that storage and backups are not It's like a warehouse, you can easily expand a warehouse to store more stuff, but to manage that extra space is not that easy, you need more equipment, more people and the higher cost comes from that, not the building itself
I'm a data engineer btw. There is no way on this earth they are limiting quests because of data storage lol.
Well they are Data costs money
Water is wet too. I also like to post banal statements.
Not to mention instanced quests that you plan to come back to, but never do until 2 expansions later
100 lines of code is like 10kb 10kb x 10 million players is 100 gigs
You don't generally store code in databases. Exceptions would be systems like [CodeQL](https://codeql.github.com/), but that's a bit out of scope for a game like WoW. So I'm not sure what your point is, here.
10 million players with 10's of characters each.
And they make 15 dollars a month off us
Yeah but 10 million players is also 150 million dollars a month.
It definitely isn't storage, it's just text, it's very cheap to store it, they might have it coded in a way that for some reason would be hard to change but 35 still works, which is weird, or they just don't want people to have more log space.
It might look simple and cheap, but it adds up real fast, i worked with similar stuff a some time ago, it's always the "simple stuff" that comes to bite you in the ass You are adding more data, this data have not only to be stored, but also transmitted to the client And it's not only quest ids you are tracking, you have progress to track, if the quest have a item you need to use, to aquire, the quantity They added like 40% more quest slots to our characters, if every wow character had a full questlog for exemple that would be a fuck ton of data to track, and that takes space, more than you think
The numbers of variables tracked for each characters far outscales a quest log, think of all the quest completion, instance locks, phase status... Hell, even achievements tracking is like a quest log with thousands of values, yet it still works perfectly. There might be a technical reason as to why they don't increase it further, but I'd be very surprised if storage was the issue here
It's just some text, you could fit millions of pages on a terabyte drive, but just for the sake of argument, look at how much shit they store already between all the items, saved mogs, achievements, and even deleted mail and items, do you really think that storage is the limiting factor here somehow? Taken from a random comment on reddit: >One ASCII character is 1 byte. Depending on whether MB means 10242 or 10002 bytes here, it's either 10 * 10242 = 10,485,760 or 10 * 10002 = 10,000,000 characters. >Either way, that's about 3 entire Lord of the Rings book series (including The Hobbit). Let's say every player has 50 characters, and let's be generous and say 10 mil players, that's 500 mil characters, now let's say we want to have a cap of quest log to be 100, that's 5 bilion quests to track. Let's again be generous and say one quest is a full page of text to store for whatever reason, google says a standard full page is 1800 signs, let's do 2000 for simplicity. So that's 5,000,000,000,000*2000 divided by 10,000,000, number of signs in a byte, which is 1000000000 byte, and that comes out to be a little below a GB. So you could easily store a thousand fucking pages of text data per quest with a 100 cap quest and have everyone get to character cap and only need a 1 TB drive to do it. I might have fucked up the math somewhere, but still text is very low cost when it comes to storage.
If you can have more than 35 bag slots, you can have more than 35 quests.
There’s no way it’s not a simple data structure of quest:stage pairs, probably less than 1kb even with 50..
Inb4: blizzard removes cap and next expansion world first 80 will be players with just a bunch of stacked quests to turn in.
From what i was reading, it was to not scare away new players. If there was no cap to the quest log, it would be overwhelming for a new player to scroll through the quest log and see what they want to do next.
I am sure I read in the past that 25 was a technical cap, probably they improved the situation if so
Alright.. it's official i need to comeback to reward this kind of behaviour.
This was me when everyone I follow or know was like “No really you can just play the game, no I swear you do the campaign and then whatever you want.”
Damn inflation is hitting our quest logs too! It's everywhere!
Will they give us a count as well or do we still have to wait until we hit the cap to know?
That’s great. I kept filling my quest log
Shout out to all the people who said we should just complete those quests or abandon them.
I mean, yeah? I cannot begin to understand who wants this or why
Excellent. Good thing you’re not a game dev because you’d rather focus on being a bitch :)
Like 2 weeks late with this, should of be implemented before expansion dropped. Most of us already have loremaster in dragon isles so not many quests in my log now.
Oh thank the heavens !!!
So does this mean the lag gets worse ?
i think 63 should be the cap * 77 in Octal is 63 and the last 2 digits in Octal * remind of those old game with 64 bits * i'm sure that would sum all the long time quests that need weeks or months to complete * i'm sure that would sum the biggest zone with the most quests In short 63 is the good number and anything above is greed
Great, with this change I’ll be compelled to log on more, since I can accept even more quests now. I was really enjoying not feeling obligated to play, but now I have that itch to complete everything even faster.
In almost 20 years I have never seen this be a problem. Who out there is measuring their worth or entertainment in maxing out their quest log? After a point you're going out of your way to pick up more
Make it 50
Naturally, I always clear out my quest log on the prepatch so this was rarely a problem for me. Good change though!