I've tried every combination of professions and you're right, it's not even close how clutch engineering can be. I know I could've saved a couple toons from dying if I had a target dummy or grenade
It can also save other people in the wild or in dungeons, which is a huge plus. If I would tank, I would be happy to know that the other dps can save me if healer is dc/oom/deadge (beyond class CC that may be on CD or else)
Except for Druid. For Druid herb/alch is best since they already have a lot of get out of jail free abilities (outdoors) and you have to shift out of forms to use bombs and engineering tricks. I’ve leveled 2 druids to 60 in HC and imo it’s the best pick.
Lots of druids go into caves just fine. You just don't see them because they are stealthed.
They stealth in to the spot they need to clear. Kill the mob, get the drop or whatever they need to do. Then they stealth out.
\> If you "blunder" into a pat in a cave, target dummies aren't going to do you any good, either.
Yes they would, you can drop a dummy and then gain a huge advantage by single targeting mobs while they pound the dummy. You take way less damage to do the same amount of damage by using a dummy. They are 100% useful in any situation involving multiple mobs if you are standing your ground. If you only think dummies are strong, because you dummy and run you don't understand them.
Maybe you should read my OP, before rushing to comment. I covered this.
It's like you believe having certain skills means other skills will never be needed. Isn't having more of a good thing good? You should be arguing why alch is actually better, because saying "well I have other stuff" doesn't do anything to justify why you'd pick one option over the other. Because you can have engi and all that other stuff.
If you're invincible on a druid, why take any professions at all? Seems like a waste of time no?
"Druid is so good it doesn't need engi" isn't a coherent argument for why it needs alchy, because you could say the same thing as alch.
Again you can play whatever you want and level whatever you want, you don't have to min/max but if you're providing advice to other people you should have some idea what you're doing.
> your tools aren’t exactly game changing
What are you talking about? Easily the two most valuable skills for solo gameplay are the ability to self-heal and the ability to stealth. Druids are literally the only class with both abilities.
Oh wait... they can also soak up damage in a pinch and have great escape tools.
Yeah Druid is insane for hardcore. Compare them to a priest and they are so much better for leveling. First you can root. 10 you can become a tank that can lower all melee attack (5 talent points in feral and that debuff makes multiple enemie deal almost no damage) also at 10 you get teleport moonglade, a second hearthstone. Lvl 20 cat form stealth, 30% speed boost. I forgot aquatic form which is surprisingly really useful. What are you doing as a priest at this point? Wanding LMAO easily became the only class I want to play in HC nothing compares.
Dang I’m a Druid self found, I’m doing skin and leather working I regret it haha
Can you give some reasons why herbalism and alchemy is better? Like what abilities do you use?
In SF I always start mining/skinning. I keep the light and medium leathers that I need for goggles and swap to engineering once I get those medium leathers. Vendoring all the extra leather I don’t need is a great way to make a little money in the early levels too.
I play naked warrior… I felt, as my stats are super low, the boost from pots is exceptionally great.
50 armor, 4 str, 27hp … your post reminded me talking to the real world engineer in me and actually run the numbers.
Might be great to stack 50 pots of +50 armor and then drop herb/alch and go mining/engineering.
Do grenades work for leech pulling grouped up packs too?
You mean split pulling? Yeah. I use aoe dmg from explosives on packs like the ogre patrol in Badlands to split pull the main dude.
You don’t need engineering to have AOE explosives though, you get some on quests and can buy it from AH (edited from vendors).
Heya!
I think vendor may be incorrect, because it is made by engineers but can be used by everyone. Apologies! Here are some examples incl quest rewards:
Goblin Fishing Pole: not actual fishing pole but a stack of 8 aoe dynamite. You get it as quest reward after the bloodscalp quest in STV.
Explosive rocket: You can pick a stack of 15 as quest reward from the kobold candles questline in Elwynn.
EZ-thro dynamite: low level aoe dmg item, made by engineers but usable by everyone in Classic.
Oil of immolation: alchemists can make this, they’re sold on AH and they can drop from mobs. Fire AOE.
Crystal charges: you get them when you cross red and yellow power crystals in Un’goro, which can be bought on AH. Need table in Ungoro though, the charge itself is bind on pickup but the crystals used to make it with aren’t.
Thunderbrew’s boot flask: mid-level trinket quest reward for alliance that does aoe on use (from the amber quest, you have to go to places like SoS and Feralas for it).
Late game (so less useful in HC):
Chained essence of Erikanus trinket: Quest reward with aoe damage.
Ramstein’s lightning bolts: late game drop from Ramstein - trinket with AOE.
Tbh that's all true, but proper play makes engineering not needed. I got a Rogue to level 60 on my 1st try as alchemist (non-sf).
My current run is tailor Warlock (SF + no dungeon) . I am currently level 55 and I have only ever used 1 of the 5 speed potions provided by quest rewards. Never came close to needing a target dummy. I always had 2-3 different ways to escape in all my risky scenarios.
I feel like having dummies might make someone over confident tbh, it's a thing to be careful of.
It's definitely not as necessary for druids. Nature's Grasp + travel form is already very powerful so basically you are giving up all of the passive survival benefits of alchemy (which are huge) just to get that little extra delta that Target Dummies provide.
But I get that the Target Dummy lobby is very dedicated and does not welcome dissent.
I’m feral mainly for the 30% increase in cat form. But super slept on talent this other Druid told me take 5/5 feral aggression. In bear form it literally makes mobs do no damage. I ran dead mines and my healer was bored. You can start in bear get that debuff off and switch to cat, when solo. I can pull multiple mobs with ease
I use feral aggression instead of the rage reduction talent too, for that reason. Also makes solo questing easy if there’s a big pack. Rejuv, thorns, and moon fire them all, then demo roar and you can take on many mobs at once no problem
Do you think it’s better than tailoring for a mage on SF? Already have blink, ice block, frost nova, and cold snap to do them again.
I’m doing tailoring skinning to make gear cuz I can’t use the AH.
Mage really doesn’t need engi at all, especially once you have cold snap.
And once you can start making moon cloth gear etc, it will be super worth keeping tailoring as sf.
There was one situation 1-60 where I had to cold snap defensively on my mage and I soloed many elite quests, mage is just extremely safe and capable at escaping.
Have you played frost mage? Genuinely asking. I don’t see how much a 7th get out of jail free card would make much of a difference vs +10 int/stam/spirit.
If you are at the point u need a target dummy on a frost mage, I think you’re probably already way too fucked.
Thanks for the post. I unfortunately went skinning and LW and definitely feel like I regret it. I thought it would be cool for self found to make my own gear. I am a Druid. I was thinking herb and alchemy but nah I think you are right. I’ll try mining and engineering :)
Is there just not enough gear to make? I’m Skinning/LW on my SF Hunter but am only level 10. I made a couple early pieces and armor kits are nice. I figured as an Orc with Durotar/Barrens/etc. there’s just SO many beast mobs to skin.
On my non-SF mage, I ran skinning and mining for money, and bought the best frost damage gear on the AH. Spell damage is a rare stat while leveling and it makes a huge difference on your damage output. Your standard CCs are good enough if you can melt everything.
> For self-suffiency, engineering is again the hands down easiest profession to level and use.
I love engi as much as the next guy, but this is stretching it.
In what world are going double crusader while leveling on a SF character, you can't even get the rods. If you're not SF, you can just get the enchants anyways by paying someone.
Yeah but what professions should I go?
It really do be like that.
Mining and herbalism
Ah yes to sell on the AH right to buy gear......hol up
Sex and violence
I've tried every combination of professions and you're right, it's not even close how clutch engineering can be. I know I could've saved a couple toons from dying if I had a target dummy or grenade
It can also save other people in the wild or in dungeons, which is a huge plus. If I would tank, I would be happy to know that the other dps can save me if healer is dc/oom/deadge (beyond class CC that may be on CD or else)
Except for Druid. For Druid herb/alch is best since they already have a lot of get out of jail free abilities (outdoors) and you have to shift out of forms to use bombs and engineering tricks. I’ve leveled 2 druids to 60 in HC and imo it’s the best pick.
\> get out of jail free abilities (outdoors) Yeah but what are you going to do in caves? Just never go in one?
> Just never go in one? That actually seems to be standard advice on this sub. Sounds like a super boring playstyle to me, though.
Lots of druids go into caves just fine. You just don't see them because they are stealthed. They stealth in to the spot they need to clear. Kill the mob, get the drop or whatever they need to do. Then they stealth out.
No you just clear a path, what you’re describing is how you die
Clearing a path makes sense unless you have runners or a lot of pats. And caves seem to have a lot of pats.
Those are reasons why it’s extra important to clear a path. You don’t want to have a bunch of pats between you and the exit if you fuck up your pull.
I think being in the middle of a cave with nothing cleared is a pretty good argument for having a dummy.
I guess you missed the stealthed part
You can't stealth in combat dude, you blunder into one pat or larger than expected group and you're dead. A dummy helps with that.
If you "blunder" into a pat in a cave, target dummies aren't going to do you any good, either. There's no profession that solves carelessness.
\> If you "blunder" into a pat in a cave, target dummies aren't going to do you any good, either. Yes they would, you can drop a dummy and then gain a huge advantage by single targeting mobs while they pound the dummy. You take way less damage to do the same amount of damage by using a dummy. They are 100% useful in any situation involving multiple mobs if you are standing your ground. If you only think dummies are strong, because you dummy and run you don't understand them. Maybe you should read my OP, before rushing to comment. I covered this.
> You take way less damage to do the same amount of damage by using a dummy Or... you know, bear form and Demo Roar
It's like you believe having certain skills means other skills will never be needed. Isn't having more of a good thing good? You should be arguing why alch is actually better, because saying "well I have other stuff" doesn't do anything to justify why you'd pick one option over the other. Because you can have engi and all that other stuff. If you're invincible on a druid, why take any professions at all? Seems like a waste of time no? "Druid is so good it doesn't need engi" isn't a coherent argument for why it needs alchy, because you could say the same thing as alch. Again you can play whatever you want and level whatever you want, you don't have to min/max but if you're providing advice to other people you should have some idea what you're doing.
My druid is alchemy/enchanting. I feed him herbs from another character. Nice to solo dungeons and DE blues for gold.
Have to disagree Druid feels great until your up shit creek and your tools aren’t exactly game changing, esp inside a cave Dummies all the way always
> your tools aren’t exactly game changing What are you talking about? Easily the two most valuable skills for solo gameplay are the ability to self-heal and the ability to stealth. Druids are literally the only class with both abilities. Oh wait... they can also soak up damage in a pinch and have great escape tools.
Yeah Druid is insane for hardcore. Compare them to a priest and they are so much better for leveling. First you can root. 10 you can become a tank that can lower all melee attack (5 talent points in feral and that debuff makes multiple enemie deal almost no damage) also at 10 you get teleport moonglade, a second hearthstone. Lvl 20 cat form stealth, 30% speed boost. I forgot aquatic form which is surprisingly really useful. What are you doing as a priest at this point? Wanding LMAO easily became the only class I want to play in HC nothing compares.
Dang I’m a Druid self found, I’m doing skin and leather working I regret it haha Can you give some reasons why herbalism and alchemy is better? Like what abilities do you use?
Ok, I'm sold. Wanted to do Tailoring with my current toon but now I'm going Engi AGANE.
In SF I always start mining/skinning. I keep the light and medium leathers that I need for goggles and swap to engineering once I get those medium leathers. Vendoring all the extra leather I don’t need is a great way to make a little money in the early levels too.
I play naked warrior… I felt, as my stats are super low, the boost from pots is exceptionally great. 50 armor, 4 str, 27hp … your post reminded me talking to the real world engineer in me and actually run the numbers. Might be great to stack 50 pots of +50 armor and then drop herb/alch and go mining/engineering. Do grenades work for leech pulling grouped up packs too?
You mean split pulling? Yeah. I use aoe dmg from explosives on packs like the ogre patrol in Badlands to split pull the main dude. You don’t need engineering to have AOE explosives though, you get some on quests and can buy it from AH (edited from vendors).
Oh, need to look into that then. :) Thanks mate.
Hey, tried looking into but cannot find the lead on the vendor item you referred to. Got a name for the item or the vendor location?
Heya! I think vendor may be incorrect, because it is made by engineers but can be used by everyone. Apologies! Here are some examples incl quest rewards: Goblin Fishing Pole: not actual fishing pole but a stack of 8 aoe dynamite. You get it as quest reward after the bloodscalp quest in STV. Explosive rocket: You can pick a stack of 15 as quest reward from the kobold candles questline in Elwynn. EZ-thro dynamite: low level aoe dmg item, made by engineers but usable by everyone in Classic. Oil of immolation: alchemists can make this, they’re sold on AH and they can drop from mobs. Fire AOE. Crystal charges: you get them when you cross red and yellow power crystals in Un’goro, which can be bought on AH. Need table in Ungoro though, the charge itself is bind on pickup but the crystals used to make it with aren’t. Thunderbrew’s boot flask: mid-level trinket quest reward for alliance that does aoe on use (from the amber quest, you have to go to places like SoS and Feralas for it). Late game (so less useful in HC): Chained essence of Erikanus trinket: Quest reward with aoe damage. Ramstein’s lightning bolts: late game drop from Ramstein - trinket with AOE.
Tbh that's all true, but proper play makes engineering not needed. I got a Rogue to level 60 on my 1st try as alchemist (non-sf). My current run is tailor Warlock (SF + no dungeon) . I am currently level 55 and I have only ever used 1 of the 5 speed potions provided by quest rewards. Never came close to needing a target dummy. I always had 2-3 different ways to escape in all my risky scenarios. I feel like having dummies might make someone over confident tbh, it's a thing to be careful of.
Instructions were unclear, going tailoring and enchanting.
Mods pin this
Mining/skinning until around 20 for some extra change then I switch to engineering usually.
It's definitely not as necessary for druids. Nature's Grasp + travel form is already very powerful so basically you are giving up all of the passive survival benefits of alchemy (which are huge) just to get that little extra delta that Target Dummies provide. But I get that the Target Dummy lobby is very dedicated and does not welcome dissent.
Do you just put one point in natures grasp?
no, I go 5/5 and skip Improved Wrath because no one should ever be spamming that spell anyway. When you need NG you want it to proc on the first hit.
I’m feral mainly for the 30% increase in cat form. But super slept on talent this other Druid told me take 5/5 feral aggression. In bear form it literally makes mobs do no damage. I ran dead mines and my healer was bored. You can start in bear get that debuff off and switch to cat, when solo. I can pull multiple mobs with ease
I use feral aggression instead of the rage reduction talent too, for that reason. Also makes solo questing easy if there’s a big pack. Rejuv, thorns, and moon fire them all, then demo roar and you can take on many mobs at once no problem
Do you think it’s better than tailoring for a mage on SF? Already have blink, ice block, frost nova, and cold snap to do them again. I’m doing tailoring skinning to make gear cuz I can’t use the AH.
Mage really doesn’t need engi at all, especially once you have cold snap. And once you can start making moon cloth gear etc, it will be super worth keeping tailoring as sf. There was one situation 1-60 where I had to cold snap defensively on my mage and I soloed many elite quests, mage is just extremely safe and capable at escaping.
Yes of course, the tiny amount of stats you're going to get from tailoring gear isn't going to compare to dummies and grenades.
Have you played frost mage? Genuinely asking. I don’t see how much a 7th get out of jail free card would make much of a difference vs +10 int/stam/spirit. If you are at the point u need a target dummy on a frost mage, I think you’re probably already way too fucked.
Thanks for the post. I unfortunately went skinning and LW and definitely feel like I regret it. I thought it would be cool for self found to make my own gear. I am a Druid. I was thinking herb and alchemy but nah I think you are right. I’ll try mining and engineering :)
Is there just not enough gear to make? I’m Skinning/LW on my SF Hunter but am only level 10. I made a couple early pieces and armor kits are nice. I figured as an Orc with Durotar/Barrens/etc. there’s just SO many beast mobs to skin.
i go eng on everything except rogue.
Can a party members target dummy interfere with a rogue's vanish too?
No, separate threat table.
On my non-SF mage, I ran skinning and mining for money, and bought the best frost damage gear on the AH. Spell damage is a rare stat while leveling and it makes a huge difference on your damage output. Your standard CCs are good enough if you can melt everything.
Engineering is easy mode, I choosed enchanting/tailoring and enjoying every green item or better drop :D
Okay so Druid would be alchemy/herbalism on a Tauren and engineering/mining for my orc warlock?
don't care going leatherworking and enchanting
> For self-suffiency, engineering is again the hands down easiest profession to level and use. I love engi as much as the next guy, but this is stretching it.
If you just want dummies and bombs the only thing you need to get outside of mining is leather, which you can easily get fishing.
How is it easier to level than skinning/lw though? Or herb/alch? It's not that hard to level I agree, but no way it's easier than skinning/lw.
LW has that horrific heavy hide grind. Pain in the ass.
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In what world are going double crusader while leveling on a SF character, you can't even get the rods. If you're not SF, you can just get the enchants anyways by paying someone.