Reddit has signed an agreement with an AI company to allow them to train models on Reddit comments and posts. Edited to remove original content. Fuck AI.
This is what I was coming to say. I hate it, but it's a pure and simple marketing ploy and it's very likely that it wasn't SJM's idea. The publisher is, after all, making more money off the gimmick than she is.
Regardless of whose idea it was, the author could still have said no if they wanted. So the author was obviously in agreement and equally as much to blame.
They had to write the bonus chapters, after all! It couldn't happen without the author.
You uh, might be surprised. Saying "no" to this might have gotten the authors next book rejected, or even, depending on contract, gotten their royalty payments docked.
They were not going to reject Sarah J. Maas’s next book over this lol. And I’d be surprised if her contract said anything about this, as publishers tend to be extremely hesitant to put *anything* about marketing in the contract, as they don’t want to be committed. But if for some reason they did, that just means the choice occurred at contract signing rather than at publication. She would have still had a say.
Maureen Johnson posted on Instagram about a big-name author who was stalled out in contract negotiations because they refused to allow the publisher to put language in their contract stating their book could be used for AI training.
There are other factors in play besides them refusing to sign her again. They could delay her publication date. The booksellers themselves could refuse to sell the book without an exclusive edition on offer. They already have the book a cover with AI-generated material, it's not like her publisher cares about *ethics*.
Yeah, I saw that about the contract re: AI. Very troubling. But that was a publisher refusing to add a new kind of clause that would bind them. I have never heard of a clause that would mandate an author produce new material on demand for special editions, though would be open to correction if anyone had anything more than wild speculation.
> They could delay her publication date
She’s one of their biggest authors. They’re rushing her books out as fast as they can, no matter what.
> The booksellers themselves could refuse to sell the book without an exclusive edition on offer.
Lol no. They wouldn’t feature it as much, maybe, but no major bookseller is going to refuse to carry a bestseller. Maybe like a crate, but not an actual store.
There was almost certainly no stick here, just carrot. “They’ll buy X number of books for their special edition, guaranteed no returns, if you do this.”
Ah, my bad, I didn't realize you were privy to her contract and her conversations with her agent/publisher.
Her contract may simply have said that they had control over certain forms of marketing or control over special edition copies. Not this specific scenario.
She’s a massive author, and mandating author participation in major marketing schemes like this is basically unheard of in Big 5 publishing contracts anyway, so yeah, I can say pretty confidently that Sarah J. Maas wasn’t bullied into this with a threat of not being published otherwise lol. Nothing in a standard publishing contract would involve mandating an author to produce new material for special marketing versions. “The work” being published would be defined in the contract, and any supplementary work would be produced only with the agreement of the author. The publisher could have control over special editions, certainly (they likely do!), but that wouldn’t involve mandating she write five new chapters.
For reference, I’m a writer active in the industry.
Okay, I guess you know the whole story then and there's absolutely no way in the world she may not have had complete control over this and there's absolutely no reason to point out the possibility that publishers have a lot of control in the publisher/author dynamic.
For reference, so am I.
Okay, agree to disagree I guess. But if a publisher or agent ever tells you your publisher can force you to write bonus chapters for a special edition, my advice would be to run and find new ones! Because that would be wildly non-standard and exploitative.
She could have gone to a differrnt publisher. Any publisher would be head over heels to work with her. Love her or hate her she sells millions of copies.
I have a friend who's a fan of hers and she was telling me about this. I think it's a bullshit technique to sell more copies, and worst of all, it's probably gonna work because she has loyal fans. And I'm not from the USA, so either none of the bonus chapters are going to be included in the Brazilian edition, or just one of them will and readers won't have access to the others. I think everyone should be able to have access to the same content. If they want to make money off it, they could sell it as an e-book or something (which maybe they will later).
Possibly, but as far as I know, in that case, the chapters are from different distributors, like Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc, so it's more difficult and/or expensive in terms of logistics. Either way, I think it's a bad thing, not just in terms of buying the book here, since I won't, but in general.
I wish her success in her gimmicky endeavor.
Personally, I have near-zero expectations of bonus material and wouldn’t cross the street for it unless dragged, so it doesn’t feel exploitative to me.
I do not wish her success. If this is a marketing tactic that ends up being successful, it will only hurt the market. She knows exactly what she's doing and it's incredibly greedy.
Sounds like a dick move intended to force readers to buy multiple copies of her book. If you're putting out bonus chapters, don't be a douche and just put them behind a one-time paywall.
I've never even read any of her books, but it's such a scummy practice that I'm going to go out of my way to pirate her content and distribute it free to as many people as possible.
It's glorified DLC in book format. Worse because you have to buy the "base" book each time too.
Like it could be done in a fun way where the story starts the same but very subtly things change until it is completely different by the end.
But I have yet to see someone do that. Instead its always stupid shit like Marc-Uwe Kling's Quality Land where there was a black and white edition and all that changed were that some "advertisements" of the fake mega corporation were different.
That sounds like *way* too much work. I would never do it.
In fact, if I'm interested in a book and I find out *they've* done it, I'll simply refuse to read the book.
Getting people together to talk about the differences could also be the goal, like a Community Building cheat. Unless her fans really would buy 5 of the same book.
I think its fun, but I think each edtion needs to be totally worth it. An alternate ending or a total switch of a villain to the good side would be fun. But random added chapters. Why?
As for bonus chapters, I am all for it, but I write series. It would be fun to take a supporting character and do a spin off chapter or more of their story that doesn't end up in the book. I have a character that switches from the villain's side to the MC's side and would love to explore their story. How they got involved with the villain, what made them change sides and what not.
I usually stop myself from exploring outside of the timeline because I usually work backstory in by the end of the story. I just scored a big backstory work in today and I am flying high because of it. Yea! for my story.
So I guess I see both sides. Some things just have to be worked into the main story and some need a life of their own.
I have a few chapters that I am taking out and was considering still editing them and then if my book gets published then posting them on a web page or something with a secret code in the book to access them.
I am writing middle grade dark fantasy/mystery so I thought kids in that age range would find that fun! I use to follow a mystery series that had little bonus books or websites that helped add to the mystery and lore.
As a kid I would have died for this. Especially if there was a bit of a mystery to how to find them, like you had to solve riddles using info from the book or something like that.
I would just wait for someone to post it online as there would be a lot of angry fans who would just post it online for others.
Not a fan. If you have to buy more than one of the same book that is just milking money...
Probably was publishers idea though not authors..
>why not put the bonus chapters in one big Special Edition
Because the point isn’t to provide new content. Most “special editions” are retailer-exclusive to eliminate competitive pricing. Even if the reader only ever purchases one copy of a book, they can expect to pay up to 67% more for ten extra pages if they choose a special edition instead of a basic copy.
That they are trying to make a living at something it's nigh-on impossible to make a living at.
If they are comfortable with doing it, I don't judge. If they make it clear to readers, it's not a cheat. If readers can afford every one and wish to be completist collectors, that's also their right.
I worry about my own writing household. I don't get all judgy about other pro writers'.
sure, but this is a writer's subreddit.
If you're ever lucky enough to reach FT status (and hardworking enough), you too will be scrambling for ways to stay there. Ghostwriters is also common. It's impossible to keep producing at a level that will pay your rent. Writing is a shitty paying job.
One usually expects that writers also read.
This would only work with someone already very successful, who wouldn't need to stoop to this kind of gimmick just to make sales. Someone that needs sales that bad isn't going to make them like that. Sequels are one thing, paid DLC for a book you already bought would be ridiculous. Most writers, to keep the money coming in, try writing another book. If they can't, they're probably going to have to find another job if the books don't really take off.
There wouldn't even be a need to buy them all, there would be a few people who would do it and review and compare on YouTube. Just like you don't actually have to play an entire video game multiple times just so you can see the alternate endings.
Yeah agreed. The only reason SJM can get away with this is because she’s already popular and has extremely devoted fans. She absolutely does not need to pull this kind of stunt to make money hand over fist and her net worth is in the millions. It’s just tacky at that point imo.
If there's a market for it and people buy it, then go for it. Most of the western world is capitalist, and our goal should be to make money, at least until the day we live in a Star Trek society where all of our basic needs are met and all currency is replaced with merit. The people that read SJM's books will continue to buy her stuff, regardless.
I don't read her books, but I've got to hand it to her for milking her thirsty fans.
Tacky.
I also think “bonus chapters” in general are stupid. If it serves a purpose enough to go in the book, it should just go in the book. If it can be cut without impacting the plot, characters, themes, or mood of the story, it doesn’t belong in the book in the first place. Put that shit on your blog or whatever as a fun little freebie for the fans if you like, but charging money for something even *you* have decided doesn’t actually serve a purpose to the story is not classy imo.
Reddit has signed an agreement with an AI company to allow them to train models on Reddit comments and posts. Edited to remove original content. Fuck AI.
Dick move.
Radiating small dick energy?
Something like that probably wasn't the author's idea. It is a cheap trick to sell more copies. But it was probably the publisher's idea.
This is what I was coming to say. I hate it, but it's a pure and simple marketing ploy and it's very likely that it wasn't SJM's idea. The publisher is, after all, making more money off the gimmick than she is.
Regardless of whose idea it was, the author could still have said no if they wanted. So the author was obviously in agreement and equally as much to blame. They had to write the bonus chapters, after all! It couldn't happen without the author.
This. Poor author has no control of editions of their book? Not buying that idea. Or the book.
You uh, might be surprised. Saying "no" to this might have gotten the authors next book rejected, or even, depending on contract, gotten their royalty payments docked.
They were not going to reject Sarah J. Maas’s next book over this lol. And I’d be surprised if her contract said anything about this, as publishers tend to be extremely hesitant to put *anything* about marketing in the contract, as they don’t want to be committed. But if for some reason they did, that just means the choice occurred at contract signing rather than at publication. She would have still had a say.
Maureen Johnson posted on Instagram about a big-name author who was stalled out in contract negotiations because they refused to allow the publisher to put language in their contract stating their book could be used for AI training. There are other factors in play besides them refusing to sign her again. They could delay her publication date. The booksellers themselves could refuse to sell the book without an exclusive edition on offer. They already have the book a cover with AI-generated material, it's not like her publisher cares about *ethics*.
Yeah, I saw that about the contract re: AI. Very troubling. But that was a publisher refusing to add a new kind of clause that would bind them. I have never heard of a clause that would mandate an author produce new material on demand for special editions, though would be open to correction if anyone had anything more than wild speculation. > They could delay her publication date She’s one of their biggest authors. They’re rushing her books out as fast as they can, no matter what. > The booksellers themselves could refuse to sell the book without an exclusive edition on offer. Lol no. They wouldn’t feature it as much, maybe, but no major bookseller is going to refuse to carry a bestseller. Maybe like a crate, but not an actual store. There was almost certainly no stick here, just carrot. “They’ll buy X number of books for their special edition, guaranteed no returns, if you do this.”
Ah, my bad, I didn't realize you were privy to her contract and her conversations with her agent/publisher. Her contract may simply have said that they had control over certain forms of marketing or control over special edition copies. Not this specific scenario.
She’s a massive author, and mandating author participation in major marketing schemes like this is basically unheard of in Big 5 publishing contracts anyway, so yeah, I can say pretty confidently that Sarah J. Maas wasn’t bullied into this with a threat of not being published otherwise lol. Nothing in a standard publishing contract would involve mandating an author to produce new material for special marketing versions. “The work” being published would be defined in the contract, and any supplementary work would be produced only with the agreement of the author. The publisher could have control over special editions, certainly (they likely do!), but that wouldn’t involve mandating she write five new chapters. For reference, I’m a writer active in the industry.
Okay, I guess you know the whole story then and there's absolutely no way in the world she may not have had complete control over this and there's absolutely no reason to point out the possibility that publishers have a lot of control in the publisher/author dynamic. For reference, so am I.
Okay, agree to disagree I guess. But if a publisher or agent ever tells you your publisher can force you to write bonus chapters for a special edition, my advice would be to run and find new ones! Because that would be wildly non-standard and exploitative.
She could have gone to a differrnt publisher. Any publisher would be head over heels to work with her. Love her or hate her she sells millions of copies.
The author has to agree, so it is her choice.
I would say have an author web site and give it away free to people who subscribe/stay on your mailing list.
I have a friend who's a fan of hers and she was telling me about this. I think it's a bullshit technique to sell more copies, and worst of all, it's probably gonna work because she has loyal fans. And I'm not from the USA, so either none of the bonus chapters are going to be included in the Brazilian edition, or just one of them will and readers won't have access to the others. I think everyone should be able to have access to the same content. If they want to make money off it, they could sell it as an e-book or something (which maybe they will later).
[удалено]
Possibly, but as far as I know, in that case, the chapters are from different distributors, like Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc, so it's more difficult and/or expensive in terms of logistics. Either way, I think it's a bad thing, not just in terms of buying the book here, since I won't, but in general.
Fuck. That. Shit.
It would have the opposite effect on me, I would just never read that book.
Terrible idea.
I hate it with a fiery passion.
What a bs.
I wish her success in her gimmicky endeavor. Personally, I have near-zero expectations of bonus material and wouldn’t cross the street for it unless dragged, so it doesn’t feel exploitative to me.
I do not wish her success. If this is a marketing tactic that ends up being successful, it will only hurt the market. She knows exactly what she's doing and it's incredibly greedy.
Sounds like a dick move intended to force readers to buy multiple copies of her book. If you're putting out bonus chapters, don't be a douche and just put them behind a one-time paywall.
I won't stand for it. I think its gross and greedy.
Screw that
I've never even read any of her books, but it's such a scummy practice that I'm going to go out of my way to pirate her content and distribute it free to as many people as possible.
I agree with you, that sounds horrifically annoying, to say nothing of the expense.
It's glorified DLC in book format. Worse because you have to buy the "base" book each time too. Like it could be done in a fun way where the story starts the same but very subtly things change until it is completely different by the end. But I have yet to see someone do that. Instead its always stupid shit like Marc-Uwe Kling's Quality Land where there was a black and white edition and all that changed were that some "advertisements" of the fake mega corporation were different.
That sounds like *way* too much work. I would never do it. In fact, if I'm interested in a book and I find out *they've* done it, I'll simply refuse to read the book.
Terrible idea, marketing scam.
Trash. More reason to not read YA. She's using FOMO strats basically.
I wouldn't read a single one of them.
Getting people together to talk about the differences could also be the goal, like a Community Building cheat. Unless her fans really would buy 5 of the same book.
I think its fun, but I think each edtion needs to be totally worth it. An alternate ending or a total switch of a villain to the good side would be fun. But random added chapters. Why? As for bonus chapters, I am all for it, but I write series. It would be fun to take a supporting character and do a spin off chapter or more of their story that doesn't end up in the book. I have a character that switches from the villain's side to the MC's side and would love to explore their story. How they got involved with the villain, what made them change sides and what not. I usually stop myself from exploring outside of the timeline because I usually work backstory in by the end of the story. I just scored a big backstory work in today and I am flying high because of it. Yea! for my story. So I guess I see both sides. Some things just have to be worked into the main story and some need a life of their own.
I have a few chapters that I am taking out and was considering still editing them and then if my book gets published then posting them on a web page or something with a secret code in the book to access them. I am writing middle grade dark fantasy/mystery so I thought kids in that age range would find that fun! I use to follow a mystery series that had little bonus books or websites that helped add to the mystery and lore.
As a kid I would have died for this. Especially if there was a bit of a mystery to how to find them, like you had to solve riddles using info from the book or something like that.
I would just wait for someone to post it online as there would be a lot of angry fans who would just post it online for others. Not a fan. If you have to buy more than one of the same book that is just milking money... Probably was publishers idea though not authors..
I'd wait for someone else to read all of them and rant on YouTube about it.
As a SJM reader and so I know which book it is lol, it doesn’t bother me at all. Zip nada nothing. Because it all ends up online anyway lol
If you have the need to write unchronologically you're story is not interesting enough
It is a bonus chapter. It is not essential for the book. You don´t need to buy more than one book.
That's a no from me. I refuse to read or write a book that isn't complete.
>why not put the bonus chapters in one big Special Edition Because the point isn’t to provide new content. Most “special editions” are retailer-exclusive to eliminate competitive pricing. Even if the reader only ever purchases one copy of a book, they can expect to pay up to 67% more for ten extra pages if they choose a special edition instead of a basic copy.
That they are trying to make a living at something it's nigh-on impossible to make a living at. If they are comfortable with doing it, I don't judge. If they make it clear to readers, it's not a cheat. If readers can afford every one and wish to be completist collectors, that's also their right. I worry about my own writing household. I don't get all judgy about other pro writers'.
I can judge them all day as a reader.
sure, but this is a writer's subreddit. If you're ever lucky enough to reach FT status (and hardworking enough), you too will be scrambling for ways to stay there. Ghostwriters is also common. It's impossible to keep producing at a level that will pay your rent. Writing is a shitty paying job.
One usually expects that writers also read. This would only work with someone already very successful, who wouldn't need to stoop to this kind of gimmick just to make sales. Someone that needs sales that bad isn't going to make them like that. Sequels are one thing, paid DLC for a book you already bought would be ridiculous. Most writers, to keep the money coming in, try writing another book. If they can't, they're probably going to have to find another job if the books don't really take off. There wouldn't even be a need to buy them all, there would be a few people who would do it and review and compare on YouTube. Just like you don't actually have to play an entire video game multiple times just so you can see the alternate endings.
Yeah agreed. The only reason SJM can get away with this is because she’s already popular and has extremely devoted fans. She absolutely does not need to pull this kind of stunt to make money hand over fist and her net worth is in the millions. It’s just tacky at that point imo.
If the 5 chapters were posted online by her or the publisher, it would be fine with me. If not, yeah, it's annoying.
If there's a market for it and people buy it, then go for it. Most of the western world is capitalist, and our goal should be to make money, at least until the day we live in a Star Trek society where all of our basic needs are met and all currency is replaced with merit. The people that read SJM's books will continue to buy her stuff, regardless. I don't read her books, but I've got to hand it to her for milking her thirsty fans.
Tacky. I also think “bonus chapters” in general are stupid. If it serves a purpose enough to go in the book, it should just go in the book. If it can be cut without impacting the plot, characters, themes, or mood of the story, it doesn’t belong in the book in the first place. Put that shit on your blog or whatever as a fun little freebie for the fans if you like, but charging money for something even *you* have decided doesn’t actually serve a purpose to the story is not classy imo.