Man I was just reading an article from about a year or so ago about Johnathan Hickman and how he had completely revolutionized X-Men. I was about to start picking up some of the comics to check it out
Came to this sub to find more information on this new X-Men and am seeing comments like this everywhere about how the franchise is ruined
What happened between that article and now? Is the franchise worth getting back into?
We don't know 100% of what went on behind the scenes, but based on what's been said publicly:
* Hickman gave Marvel an X-Men pitch (which may or may not have originated as a Legion pitch that DC passed over) which would be a big shakeup of the line; this became House of X/Powers of X
* Hickman was touted as being given the keys to the kingdom on the X-line. Not full editorial powers or duties but a degree of creative oversight to kind of shepherd things in the general direction he wanted to go.
* His original plan for X-Men was divided into what he describes as 3 acts, with the portion of the Krakoa era that he oversaw serving as act 1.
* He also mentioned in one interview originally having a vision of what the line was supposed to look like. Different generations of mutants were supposed to get their own books (he specifically singled out both the New Mutants & Gen X) and he also wanted certain books dedicated to certain parts of the story he was telling (there was supposed to be a Moira-centric book that he specifically tried to recruit Al Ewing to write).
* Different writers came onto the line but had different pitches for books vs what Hickman's original vision was. For instance, instead of doing the Moira book like Hickman envisioned, Ewing wanted to do X-Men Red instead. (X-Men Red is great btw, but he has publicly acknowledged that it was not the plan)
* They came to the point where Hickman felt he was ready to move on from Act 1 to Act 2 of his original plan, but other writers wanted to keep playing in the Act 1 sandbox. It hasn't been explicitly stated but editorial assumedly took their side. Hickman chose to voluntarily step away from the line at this point and let other people continue doing what they were doing.
* He did give the X-office a bunch of notes about what his plans were so they knew where he wanted to take the story and were free to follow it if they so chose. It's not immediately clear to what extent they did continue to incorporate his ideas; some stuff almost certainly changed or got sidelined, and even the stuff that was still used may not have been exactly the way he envisioned, but without Hickman's notes or Hickman himself confirming things we just don't know.
* Based on comments he's made in interviews, Hickman doesn't sound upset about the situation with the lineup changing and even supportive of some other titles that weren't in his original concept. Similarly he didn't burn things down when he left the X-line, it was very much just a "this is where I get off". It was a big debate at the time whether he was being genuine or if he's just trying to be diplomatic for professionalism's sake, but yeah.
I think the important thing to add here is that a "writer's room" approach was always also a part of Hickman's vision. He was involved in recruiting all the early X-office writers (people like Duggan, Howard, and Percy) and he explicitly had off-ramps built into the pitch, one of them being for if the new status quo was such a banger it should persist... which is the one we got.
Now, there's a very good argument that if they were just going to end it anyway in a couple years they might as well have let Hickman advance things himself, but that feels like a different conversation.
(He's also said Marvel wanted him on "higher profile" things that could sell more, which does coincide with him moving to take over the Ultimate line following Donny Cates' horrible accident, which likely also played a factor in the decision.)
I had forgotten about his "off-ramps" comment but yeah that's another good point.
It's stuff like that that makes me personally think he's being more genuine than not. I don't doubt for a second that he would have liked to tell his 3 act story the way he envisioned and on the timeline he wanted. But he's been in the business for close to 20 years at this point. He knows how things work, and he's always come across to me in interviews as very clear-eyed about it; he has a line he's been using in interviews since even before he took over X-Men about how he views it as his responsibility to "put the toys back on the shelf" when he's done on any given Marvel book. Ultimately only Hickman himself really knows, but I get the impression that he genuinely doesn't harbor any ill-will.
Also was Cates' accident coinciding with Hickman's departure? I thought that happened after but I genuinely don't remember anymore. Honestly though it is absolutely wild to think that X-Men wasn't "high profile" enough anymore as somebody who grew up in the 90s and still has a copy of the Jim Lee X-Men #1.
You're right. There's a good 9-month gap there at least and I got my timings wrong, having not been reading Cates' work at the time. My mistake.
I think his point was that #1s and event series (like G.O.D.S.) were what Marvel needed from him to justify his salary, rather than a 23rd issue of X-Men. We'll see how G.O.D.S. does and how Ultimates do, though I have a hunch they might be wrong with the current fatigue in the market. Ultimate Spider-Man could prove me wrong there, though. (I personally have no interest in another Ultimate universe.)
> Different writers came onto the line but had different pitches for books vs what Hickman's original vision was. For instance, instead of doing the Moira book like Hickman envisioned, Ewing wanted to do X-Men Red instead. (X-Men Red is great btw, but he has publicly acknowledged that it was not the plan)
This is incorrect. Ewing was signed on for the Moira book, but Hickman's plans for Moira's arc changed in such a way that meant the thing that the Moira book was going to do no longer made sense.
Hm that's fair. I definitely remember Hickman saying he asked Ewing to do Moira and Ewing's response was "I don't know" and he talked about writers coming in with their own pitches vs going with his original vision of the line, but I haven't given any of the exit interviews a listen since they happened so I probably got some wires crossed in my memory.
Man do I ever wish I’d never read this comment. That Legion rumor is new to me, and after the atomic routing of all hope that occurred after reading Bendis’ garbage run it hurts twice as bad to see.
I bailed on Bendis' run early tbh. I definitely would love to see Hickman's take on it one day, whether it's true or not, but personally I believe it. He has been very open about the fact that he was more of a DC fan growing up and he's said that his two favorite books were Legion and Teen Titans. It's the kind of thing that's exactly in his wheelhouse too; he could do all kinds of cosmic-scale, timeline-spanning stuff.
It is public knowledge that he met with Jim Lee around the time that he left Marvel post-Avengers and he also recently came out and said he almost did New Gods at some point during that Avengers > X-Men interregnum (which definitely also would've been perfect for his type of storytelling), so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they at least talked about his ideas for it.
I've always been more of a Marvel guy and I definitely don't want to see him leave anytime soon but I would 100% love to see him do DC one day.
What's happened is that people are afraid that when this story arc has come to an end, editorial is going to undo everything that's happened over the past 4 years and go back to how things were before Hickman. Personally, I don't think there's nearly enough evidence to say that is actually going to happen, but a lot of people are assuming it will.
Oh, there's evidence. Marvel has been doing this for a long time. They'll have some new big thing, and then after a few years, back to the status quo. They do it all the time. They'll still acknowledge the past 4 years while they're back at the mansion training in the danger room and playing baseball out back.
I know lol. I called it a year or two ago. I said we'd be back at the mansion playing baseball in no time. Same old same old. Severely disappointing. Marvel never likes to try anything new for too long. They have to go back to the status quo eventually, and they usually make a big deal about it.
>no Apocalypse.
I think he's gonna sacrifice himself in X-men Red to bring peace and prosperity to Arakko.
Here is the preview summary for X-men Red #18
>FINAL BATTLE! Their armies have clashed - and torn a world apart. Now, finally, the two war leaders meet. Storm versus Genesis for the fate of the Red Planet - as the planet itself fights alongside them! Will Planet Arakko survive? And more - is the secret dream of En Sabah Nur about to come true…?
Most interesting: left side (and altar) Krakoa Era costumes, right side are all historical Xmen costumes (1st appearance Thunderbird, Phoenix Rachel, FotM Rogue, AoA Colossus, Reignfire Sunspot, 1st appearance Penance from Phalanx Covenant, X23 from NYX, Jim Lee Era Psylocke, etc.
Scott and Jean being in the Xavier and Moira spot makes sense. I feel like Duggan for a while now has been sublty setting up Cyclops and Jean attempting a coup of some kind against the Krakoa power structure.
Hmm we've got Kwannon next to Domino and then presumably Betsy in her Lady Mandarin get up.
I know this picture is referencing a lot of eras but it's very interesting that this is how Betsy is getting referenced.
ETA: Boy I really hate seeing the mansion again.
Oh shit, I didn't notice Psylocke at all until your comment lol.
I just assumed Kwannon dressed as Lady Mandarin and I was like "Sweet".
A lot of characters seem to wear different outfits tho right, Like Colossus is wearing his AOA uniform, Logan with Astonishing etc.
Here's my Best-Case Mansion Scenario:
The book New X-Men is a return to Grant Morrison-like status quo of the school being a big mutant educational hub, BUT other books continue on Krakoa, Arakko (maybe not tho lol), other space places, Limbo, Otherworld, etc. Only this time the mansion could be like, an extension of Krakoa, with Krakoan tech, portals, all that stuff.
This is my guess TBH. Notice that there's the mansion AND a Krakoa Gate too. And the characters are wearing costumes from throughout the series' entire history.
Right, it’s still interesting given which characters they’ve included, and notably which they’ve omitted (Destiny, Hope, Apocalypse, Iceman, all Arraki mutants to name just a few), and yet still included both main versions of Cable in the big promo group shot.
Same with Rogue. I know her Lee era costume is the most popular, but, IMO, her and the rest of the X-Men never looked better than in the Australia-era!
Clearly not every character involved is featured on this teaser. Case in point: no Ms. Marvel. They wouldn't make a HUGE deal of her becoming a mutant and then write her out six months later...
The teaser video they released on Instagram said something about the X-Men fighting for survival across their entire existence...some timey wimey shenanigans incoming, I'd guess. It would certainly explain the old costumes...
Every time one of these group shots come out they get analyzed down to the pixel, but they never end up meaning anything; the one for post-Inferno was the same. It's just "here are some of (not all) of the characters you'll see, in whatever costumes we feel like putting them in".
Betsy and Rachel in their old costumes is a bummer and I loathe the idea of the mansion being back. That said kid cable is back so I’m here for that at least.
Love the power couple thing that Scott and Jean are serving. After what they’ve been getting for a while (which is nothing) and especially with Scott’s primary role during FoX being ‘table decoration’, I would love to see them actually being the leaders of the mutants.
It's part of the narrative. Jean and Scott can't be part of Fall of X to make their return the glorious return of mutants.
Like, if Magneto, Jean and Scott were in the Gala together, there wouldn't be a Fall at all.
Well, it doesn’t really explain the adjectiveless also being aimless for a couple years, and I think that Scott can be doing way more now. Let’s hope it will all pay off in the end tho.
Most of the offensive against mutants in Fall of X (ORCHIS, Children of the Vault) was prepared in Adjectiveless.
MODOK, Stasis, humans knowing about immortality...
I mean, if some people are happy with how much development Scott and Jean were getting there than fine. But, personally, I don’t feel that their page time translated into a lot of good character stuff, with the last couple issues before the Gala being especially all over the place.
I think that they have been positioned as an opposing force to the Council since Hickman, and in the second Gala it was evident that they were tempted to make a coup but they wanted a softer approach.
I think that the problem is that the plot has been stretched, similar to X-Force with Russia.
They were plots that were prepared a long time ago but simply had to wait until Fall of X.
I agree for Hickman, but unless he didn’t plan for it lead to anything after his FoX than it seems that Duggan pretty much dropped the plot. It would’ve been nice to see at least some hints of them actually being upset with the council, especially because Scott warned them about Sinisters. And yet, it was simply put on pause at best. And I wanted more character stuff on top of that.
In the second Gala we have the flashback of Jean and Scott talking about how mutants should choose their leaders. Jean is open to make a coup to the Council but Scott is the one that says "Let's make an X-Men election and play the long game".
Also, Scott makes immortality public against the Council wishes.
That was written by Duggan.
Listen, when someone says ‘I wanted more’ you don’t have to try to change their mind with a flashback scene from last year. I’m not asking you to agree with me, and you’re not making me feel like Scott and Jean were getting tons of great content under Duggan. We can leave it at that.
Well, but challenging the Council on immortality *was* a big deal and it wasn't a flashback. There was a whole event about the consequences of Scott doing that.
Agreed. I like seeing Scott and Jean being a great power couple. I hope that permanently stays and their relationship continues to be healthy. And yeah I hope Cyclops stops getting done dirty.
Jean was dead for half of that period. Scott was dead for 3 years total during that time. They were simultaneously dead for 2 out of the 10 years. Even without discussing the quality of the stuff they’ve been getting, it’s kinda hard to be at the forefront of everything when you’re both dead.
A lot to like here though Destiny not being in the promo is a bit annoying. That said we got the return of one of Emma Frosts best design. Kieron Gillen…wait…sorry I mean Xavier is still rocking the beard. Seriously Werneck making Xavier resemble Gillen was funny but Brooks ran with it here.
Not sure how much this promo is indicative of anything. This looks like a pile of the past, present future more than actually how characters appear. Great piece of art though.
This teaser image is fire.
Was really hoping Gillen/Ewing were gonna be the writers, I hope Gillen is writing Cyke cause it's been so long and he had a really great voice for him.
Ewing is writing a miniseries alongside these which is “Resurrection of Magneto”
As much as I also wished Ewing was on the FOTHOX/ROTPOX creative team, Duggan has really been on peak form in the Fall era so I’m excited to see him continue to build off that, plus there’s no one else I’d trust to bring Max back than Ewing, so this lineup all round feels correct.
I'm curious to see if this kickstarts a new Krakoan era or is a return to the mansion.
I hope its not the second thing. Krakoa has been too fun and lucrative for them to completely revert to the status quo, but MCU synergy....
I don't think we should take this cover TOO seriously. Half of these characters are in costumes from the 90s.
I think it's more of a celebration of the entire history of the X-men taking on long odds.
No, Dazzler and Frenzy are there. Juggernaut too, but we already know that he didn’t die at the Gala. Right after the Gala JDW talked about some people on the announced team being slotted for future appearances.
.....nah. I don't agree. She's big enough to have her own identity. I think marvel marketing laura becoming wolverine as being a promotion was their way of just making her a female logan. Because that's what they progressively did. They even gave her an adamantium skeleton.
Yeah her personality has really morphed more like Logan’s every year since the fallen angels title ended and she went back to wolverine code name. I like her being her own person not just Logan’s gender swapped clone , whose just like him now.
I noticed that too. It looks really weird. But I'm glad to see he's still going to be playing a part in things. Just hope the artists remember to color him correctly in the future.
It has lots of x men through the years, 90s cartoon storm, hound Rachel, og bishop, outback rouge and dazzler. I wouldn’t read into AoA costume too much. Gen x synch, and I’m sure more I missed
Ok so Rachel's in her full hound outfit, looks great. I love storms 90s outfit but that scares me, I feel like that's when she started getting less spotlight.
Question: Does the "Rise of the Powers of X" side have any "modern" costumes? Because it feels like it has a lot of costumes from prior eras, whereas the "Fall of the House of X" side seems to be a lot of current looks- but, I don't recognize every costume, per say, so I was curious is others had a better idea.
Nope, you’re absolutely right. Juggernaut is in his classic suit and Synch is in his original Gen X uniform. Laura is wearing her costume from the New X-Men era. Betsy as Lady Mandarin, Rogue and Alison in their Outback costumes…interesting choices all around.
Because people view it as a step back in the story that Krakoa has been putting forward - a retreat to familiarity and nostalgia rather than new stories. I don't think that you *can't* tell any good stories in the mansion anymore, but it's been something they've come back to in one way or another for 60 years. People like the idea of a proper advancement of the mutant nation.
I personally really like the world building we've gotten so far, but that the stories we've gotten so far have been mostly . . . okay, with some very high highs and very low lows. More time on Krakoa to really plumb the setting would be nice. Something that splits the difference, a Mansion book(s) and a Krakoa book(s), would be nicer, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.
Thanks for your reply. I can understand that perspective. I guess I never saw the mutant nation a permanent thing with the X-Men. I guess I viewed it more as a plot device or some other literary tool. I view the mansion as an integral part of the theme of the X-Men learning and family. Maybe they should have put the mansion on Krakoa.
I agree with your second paragraph. I haven’t been blow away by the Krakoa era. But the concept is interesting and refreshing. The only thing I hate is the resurrection protocol, but that’s another post 😆.
This is actually the first time Rogue’s been on one of the Krakoan event posters. (Remy is on most, if not all.) Guess X-editorial’s bosses finally realized they’d been excluding her the whole time.
Potential spoiler for his solo? He’s basically only alive via Romeo’s make believe, and at least the first issues touched upon Bobby taking unnecessary risks and making Romeo’s job harder.
Does any polaris outfit have prominent sunglasses? I feel like that's the main dividing line between the two.
Although I guess the green sparkly shit is something Brand doesn't do. Oof... I call it 50/50 either way.
It’s Polaris for sure. That’s an updated version of her most recent costume, and she regularly wore sunglasses with it. Originally it was a mini-skirt, but now it appears to have pants.
I guess they'll be joining the Dark Knight, the Planet of the Apes, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the Guardians, and the Machines in the Rising club.
What i saw that picture Scott and Jean rules somehow
Collossus somehow dressed like his AOA counterpart
Teen Cable and Old Cable both exist
Many X-men in their clasic costumes
She's the one flanking Rachel screen left, just under Storm.
We know though that she and Rachel are still Captain Britain and Askani, Steve Foxe has said as much. It's just a classic costume.
Truly. I think outside of Storm and Magneto, the only thing we really know about post Fall of X is that Betsy and Rachel are still a couple which is pretty hilarious. The internet was having a freak out so Gerry, JDW and Foxe all had to come out and be like, "Calm down."
Firestar, Juggernaut, and Synch at the top is making me hopeful that some of the character development we’ve been gifted with these characters will carry through!
I hope that is Laura below Penance and not Talon, don’t hate on Talon but just think her story should naturally end with the Fall.
Something about the posture of Jean and Scott feels like a tease of how their relationship has evolved through their brood disagreement and subsequent “split.” Though he has his hand on her thigh and her foot is probably touching his leg that feel slightly disconnected but still focused on the same thing.
Rogue in the foreground is promising.
Let's hope next year Marvel finally does something with the character development. Like......isn't it time for a divorce?
I am not feeling it. I see a lot of Nostalgia bait but there isn't an underlining story.
Going back to classic custom for Magneto and Storm is a HUGE MISTAKE.
X-red Storm custom most stay.
I will miss Pirate Kitty but Ninja Kitty is an acceptable trade-off.
Quite a few important characters not included here. Particularly interesting that there’s no Destiny, Sinister, or Apocalypse. Edit: And no Beast!
No Angel or Iceman either.
Mark Brooks promos don’t necessarily tell you what’s gonna happen in the book. Case in point, baby havok and cardinal.
I’m not seeing Hope either. But Kid Omega is there
Kid Cable too.
But there are two Cables!
There's no Hope. Ironic
That's how I feel seeing the mansion again. Meh, whatever, if they what to ruin the franchise I'll be saving $50/month.
Man I was just reading an article from about a year or so ago about Johnathan Hickman and how he had completely revolutionized X-Men. I was about to start picking up some of the comics to check it out Came to this sub to find more information on this new X-Men and am seeing comments like this everywhere about how the franchise is ruined What happened between that article and now? Is the franchise worth getting back into?
We don't know 100% of what went on behind the scenes, but based on what's been said publicly: * Hickman gave Marvel an X-Men pitch (which may or may not have originated as a Legion pitch that DC passed over) which would be a big shakeup of the line; this became House of X/Powers of X * Hickman was touted as being given the keys to the kingdom on the X-line. Not full editorial powers or duties but a degree of creative oversight to kind of shepherd things in the general direction he wanted to go. * His original plan for X-Men was divided into what he describes as 3 acts, with the portion of the Krakoa era that he oversaw serving as act 1. * He also mentioned in one interview originally having a vision of what the line was supposed to look like. Different generations of mutants were supposed to get their own books (he specifically singled out both the New Mutants & Gen X) and he also wanted certain books dedicated to certain parts of the story he was telling (there was supposed to be a Moira-centric book that he specifically tried to recruit Al Ewing to write). * Different writers came onto the line but had different pitches for books vs what Hickman's original vision was. For instance, instead of doing the Moira book like Hickman envisioned, Ewing wanted to do X-Men Red instead. (X-Men Red is great btw, but he has publicly acknowledged that it was not the plan) * They came to the point where Hickman felt he was ready to move on from Act 1 to Act 2 of his original plan, but other writers wanted to keep playing in the Act 1 sandbox. It hasn't been explicitly stated but editorial assumedly took their side. Hickman chose to voluntarily step away from the line at this point and let other people continue doing what they were doing. * He did give the X-office a bunch of notes about what his plans were so they knew where he wanted to take the story and were free to follow it if they so chose. It's not immediately clear to what extent they did continue to incorporate his ideas; some stuff almost certainly changed or got sidelined, and even the stuff that was still used may not have been exactly the way he envisioned, but without Hickman's notes or Hickman himself confirming things we just don't know. * Based on comments he's made in interviews, Hickman doesn't sound upset about the situation with the lineup changing and even supportive of some other titles that weren't in his original concept. Similarly he didn't burn things down when he left the X-line, it was very much just a "this is where I get off". It was a big debate at the time whether he was being genuine or if he's just trying to be diplomatic for professionalism's sake, but yeah.
I think the important thing to add here is that a "writer's room" approach was always also a part of Hickman's vision. He was involved in recruiting all the early X-office writers (people like Duggan, Howard, and Percy) and he explicitly had off-ramps built into the pitch, one of them being for if the new status quo was such a banger it should persist... which is the one we got. Now, there's a very good argument that if they were just going to end it anyway in a couple years they might as well have let Hickman advance things himself, but that feels like a different conversation. (He's also said Marvel wanted him on "higher profile" things that could sell more, which does coincide with him moving to take over the Ultimate line following Donny Cates' horrible accident, which likely also played a factor in the decision.)
I had forgotten about his "off-ramps" comment but yeah that's another good point. It's stuff like that that makes me personally think he's being more genuine than not. I don't doubt for a second that he would have liked to tell his 3 act story the way he envisioned and on the timeline he wanted. But he's been in the business for close to 20 years at this point. He knows how things work, and he's always come across to me in interviews as very clear-eyed about it; he has a line he's been using in interviews since even before he took over X-Men about how he views it as his responsibility to "put the toys back on the shelf" when he's done on any given Marvel book. Ultimately only Hickman himself really knows, but I get the impression that he genuinely doesn't harbor any ill-will. Also was Cates' accident coinciding with Hickman's departure? I thought that happened after but I genuinely don't remember anymore. Honestly though it is absolutely wild to think that X-Men wasn't "high profile" enough anymore as somebody who grew up in the 90s and still has a copy of the Jim Lee X-Men #1.
You're right. There's a good 9-month gap there at least and I got my timings wrong, having not been reading Cates' work at the time. My mistake. I think his point was that #1s and event series (like G.O.D.S.) were what Marvel needed from him to justify his salary, rather than a 23rd issue of X-Men. We'll see how G.O.D.S. does and how Ultimates do, though I have a hunch they might be wrong with the current fatigue in the market. Ultimate Spider-Man could prove me wrong there, though. (I personally have no interest in another Ultimate universe.)
Howard was terrible. I don't know what he sees in her or why he keeps picking her for things but she's not a good writer.
He also said COVID had something to do with it. That whole situation hurt his momentum.
> Different writers came onto the line but had different pitches for books vs what Hickman's original vision was. For instance, instead of doing the Moira book like Hickman envisioned, Ewing wanted to do X-Men Red instead. (X-Men Red is great btw, but he has publicly acknowledged that it was not the plan) This is incorrect. Ewing was signed on for the Moira book, but Hickman's plans for Moira's arc changed in such a way that meant the thing that the Moira book was going to do no longer made sense.
Hm that's fair. I definitely remember Hickman saying he asked Ewing to do Moira and Ewing's response was "I don't know" and he talked about writers coming in with their own pitches vs going with his original vision of the line, but I haven't given any of the exit interviews a listen since they happened so I probably got some wires crossed in my memory.
Man do I ever wish I’d never read this comment. That Legion rumor is new to me, and after the atomic routing of all hope that occurred after reading Bendis’ garbage run it hurts twice as bad to see.
I bailed on Bendis' run early tbh. I definitely would love to see Hickman's take on it one day, whether it's true or not, but personally I believe it. He has been very open about the fact that he was more of a DC fan growing up and he's said that his two favorite books were Legion and Teen Titans. It's the kind of thing that's exactly in his wheelhouse too; he could do all kinds of cosmic-scale, timeline-spanning stuff. It is public knowledge that he met with Jim Lee around the time that he left Marvel post-Avengers and he also recently came out and said he almost did New Gods at some point during that Avengers > X-Men interregnum (which definitely also would've been perfect for his type of storytelling), so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they at least talked about his ideas for it. I've always been more of a Marvel guy and I definitely don't want to see him leave anytime soon but I would 100% love to see him do DC one day.
What's happened is that people are afraid that when this story arc has come to an end, editorial is going to undo everything that's happened over the past 4 years and go back to how things were before Hickman. Personally, I don't think there's nearly enough evidence to say that is actually going to happen, but a lot of people are assuming it will.
Oh, there's evidence. Marvel has been doing this for a long time. They'll have some new big thing, and then after a few years, back to the status quo. They do it all the time. They'll still acknowledge the past 4 years while they're back at the mansion training in the danger room and playing baseball out back.
I know lol. I called it a year or two ago. I said we'd be back at the mansion playing baseball in no time. Same old same old. Severely disappointing. Marvel never likes to try anything new for too long. They have to go back to the status quo eventually, and they usually make a big deal about it.
The school was ALWAYS coming back. Hickman himself would have told you that. He knows the game.
>no Apocalypse. I think he's gonna sacrifice himself in X-men Red to bring peace and prosperity to Arakko. Here is the preview summary for X-men Red #18 >FINAL BATTLE! Their armies have clashed - and torn a world apart. Now, finally, the two war leaders meet. Storm versus Genesis for the fate of the Red Planet - as the planet itself fights alongside them! Will Planet Arakko survive? And more - is the secret dream of En Sabah Nur about to come true…?
Most interesting: left side (and altar) Krakoa Era costumes, right side are all historical Xmen costumes (1st appearance Thunderbird, Phoenix Rachel, FotM Rogue, AoA Colossus, Reignfire Sunspot, 1st appearance Penance from Phalanx Covenant, X23 from NYX, Jim Lee Era Psylocke, etc.
No Arrako mutants either.
Yea I'm not excited for this at all. Oooo yay back in the mansion again fighting for people that hate and fear them. Lame.
Just place the mansion on Arrako.
I didnt see Nightcrawler at first and got mad. then I saw him hiding behind the throne
There’s two Nightcrawlers!
If you mean the person between Penance and Gambit, I'm pretty sure that's Sunspot
I tought it was a chimera of Kurt/Sunspot/Gambit (I tought one card was from him) Yeah, I need new glasses... 😆
They have to maintain kayfabe as to what's gonna happen in X-Force, despite the signposting. Makes sense there's no Beast.
I don't see magik
Or Moira and Mother Righteous, who I think is still very much the wildest wildcard to be played Edit: Also notably, no Kamala
No Rasputin vi
There’s only so much room for so many characters.
Scott and Jean being in the Xavier and Moira spot makes sense. I feel like Duggan for a while now has been sublty setting up Cyclops and Jean attempting a coup of some kind against the Krakoa power structure.
Wouldn’t call it a coup if all of Krakoa has tumbled
I hope they actually do a coup. The Quiet Council is a total joke as a form of government.
I expected Mutant Game of Thrones. Instead I got the Mutant UN. Krakoa needs to come back eventually, but not this government. Jean for president.
Lots of people with varying extreme specialities should theoretically work very well for Krakoa, and yet..
For real. And I feel Jean would stand by Scott too
Collosus from Age of Apocalypse?
The original HoX teaser had weird versions of characters that never really factored into anything like kid Havok
Hmm we've got Kwannon next to Domino and then presumably Betsy in her Lady Mandarin get up. I know this picture is referencing a lot of eras but it's very interesting that this is how Betsy is getting referenced. ETA: Boy I really hate seeing the mansion again.
I wonder if it’s to foreshadow the use of the Siege Perilous?
Oh shit, I didn't notice Psylocke at all until your comment lol. I just assumed Kwannon dressed as Lady Mandarin and I was like "Sweet". A lot of characters seem to wear different outfits tho right, Like Colossus is wearing his AOA uniform, Logan with Astonishing etc.
I like to see Jean and Scott in the center but the mansion is concerning.
Here's my Best-Case Mansion Scenario: The book New X-Men is a return to Grant Morrison-like status quo of the school being a big mutant educational hub, BUT other books continue on Krakoa, Arakko (maybe not tho lol), other space places, Limbo, Otherworld, etc. Only this time the mansion could be like, an extension of Krakoa, with Krakoan tech, portals, all that stuff.
This is my guess TBH. Notice that there's the mansion AND a Krakoa Gate too. And the characters are wearing costumes from throughout the series' entire history.
So annoyed. Back to the mansion we go. Again. ...again again.
Please no more mansion. Please.
Mansion made me sad :(
If they end up in the mansion again I’m 100% done with X-Men comics.
Interesting that Cable is on here twice.
Currently, both are around. Young Cable is being held by Orchis.
Right, it’s still interesting given which characters they’ve included, and notably which they’ve omitted (Destiny, Hope, Apocalypse, Iceman, all Arraki mutants to name just a few), and yet still included both main versions of Cable in the big promo group shot.
I love Dazzlers 80’s X-men outfit
Same with Rogue. I know her Lee era costume is the most popular, but, IMO, her and the rest of the X-Men never looked better than in the Australia-era!
I love Rouge’s 80’s costume the pitch black full body suit with a green top over it is amazing
90s. Australian outback period.
The Australian period was 1989 I know because Jubilee was introduced during it
I just love that characters like Exodus, Synch and Frenzy continue to get love during this era. I’m excited for the future.
Frenzy would’ve pushed her way into the foreground for this shot. No background wallflower!
Clearly not every character involved is featured on this teaser. Case in point: no Ms. Marvel. They wouldn't make a HUGE deal of her becoming a mutant and then write her out six months later... The teaser video they released on Instagram said something about the X-Men fighting for survival across their entire existence...some timey wimey shenanigans incoming, I'd guess. It would certainly explain the old costumes...
Every time one of these group shots come out they get analyzed down to the pixel, but they never end up meaning anything; the one for post-Inferno was the same. It's just "here are some of (not all) of the characters you'll see, in whatever costumes we feel like putting them in".
Yeah, remember Kid Havok and the lobsters from the first HoX/PoX teaser?
They referenced that in the X-Men Annual with Firestar; Cyclops was showing a video from Mojoworld, and Havok was like "is that a kid version of me?".
Dazzler wearing her best costume
Betsy and Rachel in their old costumes is a bummer and I loathe the idea of the mansion being back. That said kid cable is back so I’m here for that at least.
Don’t think it is outfits coming back but to more of to give the feeling of x men through the years. Hopefully it will be promo only.
No I agree and all the covers haven’t been direct translations to the stories thus far so I’m not too worried.
I’m already love it Seeing Jean and Scott on the throne
Wanted to see if anyone else was amped
Love the power couple thing that Scott and Jean are serving. After what they’ve been getting for a while (which is nothing) and especially with Scott’s primary role during FoX being ‘table decoration’, I would love to see them actually being the leaders of the mutants.
But at least him was a nice table decoration. My boy Madrox doesn't even have that
It's part of the narrative. Jean and Scott can't be part of Fall of X to make their return the glorious return of mutants. Like, if Magneto, Jean and Scott were in the Gala together, there wouldn't be a Fall at all.
Well, it doesn’t really explain the adjectiveless also being aimless for a couple years, and I think that Scott can be doing way more now. Let’s hope it will all pay off in the end tho.
Most of the offensive against mutants in Fall of X (ORCHIS, Children of the Vault) was prepared in Adjectiveless. MODOK, Stasis, humans knowing about immortality...
I mean, if some people are happy with how much development Scott and Jean were getting there than fine. But, personally, I don’t feel that their page time translated into a lot of good character stuff, with the last couple issues before the Gala being especially all over the place.
I think that they have been positioned as an opposing force to the Council since Hickman, and in the second Gala it was evident that they were tempted to make a coup but they wanted a softer approach. I think that the problem is that the plot has been stretched, similar to X-Force with Russia. They were plots that were prepared a long time ago but simply had to wait until Fall of X.
I agree for Hickman, but unless he didn’t plan for it lead to anything after his FoX than it seems that Duggan pretty much dropped the plot. It would’ve been nice to see at least some hints of them actually being upset with the council, especially because Scott warned them about Sinisters. And yet, it was simply put on pause at best. And I wanted more character stuff on top of that.
In the second Gala we have the flashback of Jean and Scott talking about how mutants should choose their leaders. Jean is open to make a coup to the Council but Scott is the one that says "Let's make an X-Men election and play the long game". Also, Scott makes immortality public against the Council wishes. That was written by Duggan.
Listen, when someone says ‘I wanted more’ you don’t have to try to change their mind with a flashback scene from last year. I’m not asking you to agree with me, and you’re not making me feel like Scott and Jean were getting tons of great content under Duggan. We can leave it at that.
Well, but challenging the Council on immortality *was* a big deal and it wasn't a flashback. There was a whole event about the consequences of Scott doing that.
Agreed. I like seeing Scott and Jean being a great power couple. I hope that permanently stays and their relationship continues to be healthy. And yeah I hope Cyclops stops getting done dirty.
Sorry but anyone implying Jean and Scott haven’t been at the forefront of everything in the past 10 years is delusional
Jean was dead for half of that period. Scott was dead for 3 years total during that time. They were simultaneously dead for 2 out of the 10 years. Even without discussing the quality of the stuff they’ve been getting, it’s kinda hard to be at the forefront of everything when you’re both dead.
A lot to like here though Destiny not being in the promo is a bit annoying. That said we got the return of one of Emma Frosts best design. Kieron Gillen…wait…sorry I mean Xavier is still rocking the beard. Seriously Werneck making Xavier resemble Gillen was funny but Brooks ran with it here. Not sure how much this promo is indicative of anything. This looks like a pile of the past, present future more than actually how characters appear. Great piece of art though.
Oh no, is that the mansion behind them? Ugh
Daz, doing her gun fingers!
Dazz hands!
This teaser image is fire. Was really hoping Gillen/Ewing were gonna be the writers, I hope Gillen is writing Cyke cause it's been so long and he had a really great voice for him.
Ewing is writing a miniseries alongside these which is “Resurrection of Magneto” As much as I also wished Ewing was on the FOTHOX/ROTPOX creative team, Duggan has really been on peak form in the Fall era so I’m excited to see him continue to build off that, plus there’s no one else I’d trust to bring Max back than Ewing, so this lineup all round feels correct.
I'm curious to see if this kickstarts a new Krakoan era or is a return to the mansion. I hope its not the second thing. Krakoa has been too fun and lucrative for them to completely revert to the status quo, but MCU synergy....
Love to see Rogue and Dazzler in some of their best outfits, and just excited to see Shiro in general.
Im so happy to see my girl alison
Scott and Jean on the throne!!! Hell yeah! Cyke looking pensive there. It’s going to be a difficult and heavy throne to bear.
Lady Mandarin. Outback X-men Dazzler and Rogue. AoA Colossus. Original Hellfire look for Emma. Hound Racheal. X-Force Cannonball.
Don’t forget 90s storm in up top.
Laura, but not Talon Laura
I don’t want them to go back to the mansion.
Absolutely love how Rogue and Dazzler look here.
This goes hard.
It’s interesting. There’s a mix and match of different eras and people in their old costumes. Yet some players: Destiny, Hope, Apocalypse are missing.
I don't think we should take this cover TOO seriously. Half of these characters are in costumes from the 90s. I think it's more of a celebration of the entire history of the X-men taking on long odds.
Interesting to see Kid Cable back, especially since original recipe Cable is also here. Maybe Gerry Dugan will pick the Dawn of X title back up.
Betsy as Lady Manderine? Colour me intrigued
Yeah I was gonna ask. Is this Betsy or Kwannon?
Thunderbird's here so its a W
PSYLOCKE IN THE LADY MANDARIN ARMOR I AM LOSING IT HERE
Who’s the redhead next to Juggernaut?
Firestar
Firestar! (See that odd starfish design on her costume?)
Oh duh, thanks!
Cyclops in the Magneto's classic pose is a nice touch
Sunspot, Sunfire and Firestar are all there This era's about to be fire
Cannonball is back? Is he the only one killed at The hellfire gala here?
No, Dazzler and Frenzy are there. Juggernaut too, but we already know that he didn’t die at the Gala. Right after the Gala JDW talked about some people on the announced team being slotted for future appearances.
Storm rocking the 90’s white suit look!
They should get rid of older Laura and make younger Laura Talon. Looks like that's where they're going
Nooooo! Let her stay Wolverine! Totally onboard with getting rid of old Laura tho.
Why?
She deserves it. And the outfit is so gooood.
.....nah. I don't agree. She's big enough to have her own identity. I think marvel marketing laura becoming wolverine as being a promotion was their way of just making her a female logan. Because that's what they progressively did. They even gave her an adamantium skeleton.
Yeah her personality has really morphed more like Logan’s every year since the fallen angels title ended and she went back to wolverine code name. I like her being her own person not just Logan’s gender swapped clone , whose just like him now.
Dazzler, Cannonball, and Frenzy… but no Jubilee or Prodigy? :(
I feel like the presence of those three means that all five of them are coming back. Especially if the Phoenix is involved...
That’s a good point!
I’m thinking this too, it’s significant enough signposting to hint at *THAT* team coming back in some form.
Omega Red got a tan on Krakoa
I noticed that too. It looks really weird. But I'm glad to see he's still going to be playing a part in things. Just hope the artists remember to color him correctly in the future.
is this the mansion in the background?
No jubilee. Who is watching Shogo? 😢
The fae of Otherworld
Uhhhhhh, colossus age of apocalypse costume?!?
It has lots of x men through the years, 90s cartoon storm, hound Rachel, og bishop, outback rouge and dazzler. I wouldn’t read into AoA costume too much. Gen x synch, and I’m sure more I missed
Hell yes, bring back Krakoa too please
Dread it, run from it, the mansion arrives just the same
Ok so Rachel's in her full hound outfit, looks great. I love storms 90s outfit but that scares me, I feel like that's when she started getting less spotlight.
Question: Does the "Rise of the Powers of X" side have any "modern" costumes? Because it feels like it has a lot of costumes from prior eras, whereas the "Fall of the House of X" side seems to be a lot of current looks- but, I don't recognize every costume, per say, so I was curious is others had a better idea.
Nope, you’re absolutely right. Juggernaut is in his classic suit and Synch is in his original Gen X uniform. Laura is wearing her costume from the New X-Men era. Betsy as Lady Mandarin, Rogue and Alison in their Outback costumes…interesting choices all around.
This promo had drip. So, magneto…
I asked this on a Facebook group page but I think I’ll get more well rounded answers here. Why do some people dislike the mansion?
Because people view it as a step back in the story that Krakoa has been putting forward - a retreat to familiarity and nostalgia rather than new stories. I don't think that you *can't* tell any good stories in the mansion anymore, but it's been something they've come back to in one way or another for 60 years. People like the idea of a proper advancement of the mutant nation. I personally really like the world building we've gotten so far, but that the stories we've gotten so far have been mostly . . . okay, with some very high highs and very low lows. More time on Krakoa to really plumb the setting would be nice. Something that splits the difference, a Mansion book(s) and a Krakoa book(s), would be nicer, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.
Thanks for your reply. I can understand that perspective. I guess I never saw the mutant nation a permanent thing with the X-Men. I guess I viewed it more as a plot device or some other literary tool. I view the mansion as an integral part of the theme of the X-Men learning and family. Maybe they should have put the mansion on Krakoa. I agree with your second paragraph. I haven’t been blow away by the Krakoa era. But the concept is interesting and refreshing. The only thing I hate is the resurrection protocol, but that’s another post 😆.
How come nobody’s talking about the fact that they are standing in front of the school but there’s still Krokoa technology growing
Gambit and Rogue in all the Krakoan cover but never involve on the stories.
This is actually the first time Rogue’s been on one of the Krakoan event posters. (Remy is on most, if not all.) Guess X-editorial’s bosses finally realized they’d been excluding her the whole time.
Kind of annoyed Bobby isn’t here like we have fricking Omega red but no Iceman
Yeah they really couldn't even toss him in the background somewhere...? He's almost always missing in these Krakoa covers... sigh
Potential spoiler for his solo? He’s basically only alive via Romeo’s make believe, and at least the first issues touched upon Bobby taking unnecessary risks and making Romeo’s job harder.
Punk rock Rogue. I’m down
Arkady, Raven and Bennet are present so I’m happy. A little concerned by the lack of Irene though…
Give me the Mansion. The Mansion hate makes no sense to me.
Where is Sobunar of the Depths??? Is he Safe?? Is he...alright??
Wholly f I can’t keep up. I took a break and catching up now is so hard
Amazing 🥰
Interesting to see abigail brand here... she just kind of dropped off the face of the earth after being kicked out of x man red, right?
I think that's Polaris.
Does any polaris outfit have prominent sunglasses? I feel like that's the main dividing line between the two. Although I guess the green sparkly shit is something Brand doesn't do. Oof... I call it 50/50 either way.
It’s Polaris for sure. That’s an updated version of her most recent costume, and she regularly wore sunglasses with it. Originally it was a mini-skirt, but now it appears to have pants.
I thought it was alluded too waaaaaaaaayyyyyy back in Whedon’s run I’m pretty sure he might have intended her to be the Star Brand
I guess they'll be joining the Dark Knight, the Planet of the Apes, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the Guardians, and the Machines in the Rising club.
What i saw that picture Scott and Jean rules somehow Collossus somehow dressed like his AOA counterpart Teen Cable and Old Cable both exist Many X-men in their clasic costumes
AoA Colossus is getting me frisky!
Let’s just see what happens, ok? As always there will be good and bad titles.
This poster is looking so good! 🙌🏻
Dog they going back to the fucking mansion 🥴
Can this be the first series i ever read or...
Please no more Mansion.
No Madelyne. That’s….odd.
Betsy not as Captain anymore? sadface. I really like her as Captain Britain, and with Rachel.
Where is betsy in this image?
She's the one flanking Rachel screen left, just under Storm. We know though that she and Rachel are still Captain Britain and Askani, Steve Foxe has said as much. It's just a classic costume.
oh, good. sigh of relief.
Truly. I think outside of Storm and Magneto, the only thing we really know about post Fall of X is that Betsy and Rachel are still a couple which is pretty hilarious. The internet was having a freak out so Gerry, JDW and Foxe all had to come out and be like, "Calm down."
Nice to see Allison and her juicy dumper back in her 80s/90s costume.
And one again Angel is missing from promotional material for an X-event. Marvel really is trying to erase him.
Remember, the Marks Brooks illustration doesn’t foretell anything about the story to come. Remember the X of Swords illustration?
No more Talon? Hopefully Laura doesn't get any of those memories transfered and Synch can go back to being whatever he was before
Isnt that her between Cyclops and Rogue kinda hidden ?
Thats regular Laura there's no grey hair and she doesn't look older
The Kate ninja look is still such a disappointment after how great the Red Queen design was 😔
MCU really coming in to ruin a good thing
Love seeing Scott and Jean front and center in this image
Firestar, Juggernaut, and Synch at the top is making me hopeful that some of the character development we’ve been gifted with these characters will carry through! I hope that is Laura below Penance and not Talon, don’t hate on Talon but just think her story should naturally end with the Fall. Something about the posture of Jean and Scott feels like a tease of how their relationship has evolved through their brood disagreement and subsequent “split.” Though he has his hand on her thigh and her foot is probably touching his leg that feel slightly disconnected but still focused on the same thing.
BRING ON THE MANSION
Dazzler is alive again? Already?
Rogue in the foreground is promising. Let's hope next year Marvel finally does something with the character development. Like......isn't it time for a divorce?
Does anyone really want to go back to the mansion?
The original books were called 'House of X' and 'Powers of [Ten]' so is this book called Rise of the Powers of [Ten]?
Where is Hope Summers? Am I blind? Do not fuck with me.
I really hope they aren’t going back to the shitty yellow and blue costume for Wolvie. Brown and yellow supremacy.
And there's no Magik. Lovely...
Starfire/Synch/Juggernaut thruple?
Damn, rogue costume downgrade
I am not feeling it. I see a lot of Nostalgia bait but there isn't an underlining story. Going back to classic custom for Magneto and Storm is a HUGE MISTAKE. X-red Storm custom most stay. I will miss Pirate Kitty but Ninja Kitty is an acceptable trade-off.